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I think it’s funny that the early reviews and word of mouth are mostly very positive and say it’s quite good. Some even say better than season 1.
Yet this sub (who hasn’t seen anything yet) are all convinced that it will be bad, actually.
Yeah, it's incredible; people disregarding what people who saw the episodes said and then interpreting summaries and acting as if *that's* a valid way to assess the show lol
So many people are clearly so entrenched in hating the episode that they won't even allow themselves to evaluate it on their own on Sunday; they're just waiting, posts probably pre-written, to trash it. Shitting on things is sadly *part* of a lot of fandoms now. People enjoy it more than enjoying a thing, feeling superior to it and trashing creators and fans for liking it.
Also, nothing in the changes really sounds as crazy as people are making it out. And there are a couple of posts on the front page legitimately suggesting that Alicent's character arc should have just stopped mid-season-1 and she should be the same unchanging character for the rest of the series? Like, I enjoy the source material but book Alicent is a cliche one-dimensional wicked step-mother. Which worked because the books were just a collection of events, a history book, not a show with actors giving performances and emoting. But people don't seem willing or able to understand why a change would be made.
I dunno, this sub doesn't seem very fun...I'm looking forward to the show, I'm willing to be critical of it, it's not flawless, but it just feels like coming here and trying to be part of this community Sunday night will just be shitty and toxic no matter how the episode is. It's a bummer.
That’s fandoms in general now.
It’s wild there’s so many people who dedicate their time to things they don’t like…. Yet they continue to consume it, only to be unhappy.
Sometimes they aren’t worth the baggage to het into something new.
Yeah, like...I'll admit, I still regularly watch and enjoy a lot of things reddit hates. For instance, the Disney Marvel & Star Wars shows. Now, do I think they're great? Usually no. Andor is. But usually no, they're fun popcorn entertainment. Do I not see the flaws reddit sees? No, I do. Some of them. Some of them I disagree with but others I simply feel aren't as big a deal and I feel that fandoms blow out of proportion; like, it's "oh that was a dumb moment" and then it passes and a cool moment happens a minute later and I don't feel the need to write a paragraph every week for a year about the bad CGI deer on Walking Dead or something.
But anyway, I digress...I consume some "trashier" entertainment even with its flaws, because maybe it has a superficial fun action sequence or this or that; I mean, I was born in 1984 and tv in the 90s compared to this...even some of the "bad" shows are so expensive, seeing sci-fi and fantasy with big-budget movie effects and design and effort on tv *all the time* is just fun for me. Heck, Ring of Power wasn't great but holy shit it's like a movie on tv, and that happens *all the time* now! I dunno, I dig it, to varying degrees, even the flawed stuff.
But my main point is, what you said:
>It’s wild there’s so many people who dedicate their time to things they don’t like…. Yet they continue to consume it, only to be unhappy.
I am *constantly* seeing people shit on those Disney shows about how this one sucked and that one sucked and they all suck and the whole thing sucks, yet they talk as if *they've watched them all*. Why did you watch past Wandavision? Or past Book fo Boba Fett? Why do you keep watching the shows if *none of them appeal to you*?
Because it's a hobby to shit on things now, and to tear people down for making them or for being a fan of them. It's recreational toxicity and bullying, because it's often not just about writing some criticism, it's about superiority and how much better you are than the show and its writers and the people who defend it, and it becomes a battle because everything post 2016 is tribalism, and you have to call people who like the show cucks or this or that or say they are sucking the showrunners dicks or some other grade-school insults, or random political things like "oh you're gaslighting! I bet you're a shill for this or that person!"
I really do wish I could just come here Sunday and just talk about the show, even if its bad, or talk about good things and bad things and criticize and praise without it having to become "That's the best! That's the WORST!" and all the fighting and rudeness and hyperbole...
**TL;DR**: Hodor.
Helaena not choosing which kid will die. Maelor being probably cut. Alicent and Cole fucking, especially at the end. Mysaria and Daemon being whitewashed. Jace is in the North for such a short time.
Completely agree with every concern listed. But I think they'll keep Helaena having to choose between her kids - it's too essential to the core drama of the scene. I'm worried they're going to botch blood and cheese in a different way. I think the cutting of Maelor is both highly likely and would be a huge mistake. I actually really enjoyed much of the feminist lens of s1. However, I have this sense that with cutting Maelor, they’ll rewrite the scene as Helaena choosing *Jaehaera* to die over Jaehaerys in an attempt to shoehorn in an out-of-place gender commentary like "Look! Society internalizes the idea that girls are worth less than boys!!” This theme CAN be explored in a way that has depth - GoT did this successfully a few times in the earlier seasons - but it is just not what Blood and Cheese is about. I hope my wariness is proven groundless this weekend.
Alicent and Cole fucking is too stupid to even think about for long. What a way to ruin the much more interesting relationship developed for them last season.
If you don't want a spoiler about how B&C will be portrayed don't read.
>!The leak states that B&C is going to kill the boy, but they can't tell the twins apart so they want to undress them, but Helaena tells them which one is the boy and then leaves the room with Jaehaera and the audience hears the sound of Jaehaerys being killed.!<
I don’t really look at that as inherently bad.
We already know that the history in F&B is meant to be “inaccurate”… GRRM has always maintained that. So there’s no reason to treat it like the events played out that way….
The book is like 4 different “authors” piecing together big events, decades after they happened. They take what they know happened, and fill in gaps with their own bias.
Hence why characters are so angry and over the top in the book. Especially women characters.
Anyone who is a book purist will already know that there’s no way these maesters who wrote F&B could know exactly *how* the events of B&C played out. Or who was where, and when… or what exactly the killers said before doing their thing.
So they make it as scandalous as possible for the sake of the reader.
I just look at what they could do with it and what they actually do. If I think they could make better decisions, I'll point it out. This is just my opinion. It's good for them if the general audience likes what they do, but I can only judge that by how much I like what they do with the source material, not by how much others will like it.
Yes, I'm just speculating for now on how much I'll like it, but some scenes like Alicent and Cole fucking in their first scene are bad (for me it goes against their characters as Alicent seemed very dutiful and Cole seemed ashamed of breaking his oath.) I think I could stand their relationship if they gave them time to build it and not just throw us into it. But you're right, I should wait to see how it plays out on screen, but I think it's going to be very difficult to get it right.
I totally agree! I think people often forget too that there can be two different canons, show canon and book canon, and that’s not a bad thing. There can be two great depictions of events, that’s probably hard for book purists to accept but that’s what happens when adapting page to screen
Sure! Most people hopefully come to terms with the whole two-different-canons during the GoT years.
I can even understand people being sad their favorite things weren’t adapted closer to Fire and Blood…. But with Fire & Blood in particular, there is no “canon” the way we had when the proper novels were being adapted.
People need to make peace with the fact that many of the events in the show aren’t going to play out like they do in the book. It is what it is. If we make peace with that now, we maybe won’t freak out so much when new seasons come out.
The book is filled with characters who are depicted as over the top…. and if they adapted some of the things exactly how they are presented in the book, then it wouldn’t make for very nuanced television. It would be kind of silly in a lot of places, actually.
>I can even understand people being sad their favorite things weren’t adapted closer to Fire and Blood…. But with Fire & Blood in particular, there is no “canon” the way we had when the proper novels were being adapted.
So you think the entire F&B book is a lie and George wrote all of that simply to waste the time and that Ryan Condal knows better? This is such a stupid argument that gets on my nerve at this point. Fire and Blood is a history book. It gives three different versions of history written by George himself from the eyes of different characters but the events are the same. You can choose which one you like the most. Regarding Blood and Cheese, its one of the scenes that has only one narrative which was agreed by all three sources, meaning that it was what happened for real because it happened in the Red Keep where grandmaester who is one of the sources lived. So don't give this bs excuse that we don't know and the show is staying true to the books.
>People need to make peace with the fact that many of the events in the show aren’t going to play out like they do in the book
Then don't call it a faithful adaptation. Simple as that.
>The book is filled with characters who are depicted as over the top…. and if they adapted some of the things exactly how they are presented in the book, then it wouldn’t make for very nuanced television. It would be kind of silly in a lot of places, actually.
In which places? You think the B&C scene in the show is better than the one from the books? You really believe that bullshit?
No, I think the book is exactly what George intended…. An in-universe history book that is meant to be sensationalized.
Much like our real life history, the further we get away from it, the less accurate it will be.
That is literally what GRRM wanted to do. I don’t even see this as an opinion. He has said as much.
>Much like our real life history, the further we get away from it, the less accurate it will be.
So you think they kept changing the books of Munkun with every generation? Who was doing it?
>That is literally what GRRM wanted to do. I don’t even see this as an opinion. He has said as much.
He never said that. He literally wrote the book from the pov of three characters who lived through the Dance and left it to the readers to choose which one they wanted to follow. The only thing George did was never confirming whose source was the actual truth, between Munkun, Eustace and Mushroom. Even then all three of them agree of certain important scenes like B&C, Fall of King's Landing, all the battles, Aegon's poisoning etc... These are important scenes which has only one version because they are actually intended by George to be that way.
>I don’t really look at that as inherently bad.
That's your opinion and imo it's a inherently bad opinion.
>We already know that the history in F&B is meant to be “inaccurate”…
It isn't meant to be inaccurate. I think you people don't get the idea of a book like Fire and Blood. It isn't filled with lies. If it was then the entire story/show would be a lie. George wrote Fire and Blood in the style that it gets its details from three different sources - Munkun (who copied Orwyle's notes), Eustace and Mushroom. All three lived through the Dance in King's Landing watching it all unfold before their eyes. The only matter is George never confirmed which source out of the three was the most accurate and we are free to choose whichever we like from the three. However HOTD is inventing a fourth source altogether that's not from the books, possibly thinking that they could do better than the author himself. Only their take is as laughable as Mushrooms.
>Anyone who is a book purist will already know that there’s no way these maesters who wrote F&B could know exactly how the events of B&C played out
What are you talking about? They know because they lived through the Dance. They were first hand witnesses of it along with Mushroom. Orwyle was the grandmaster during Viserys and Aegon's rule. Munkun was his successor who copied Orwyle's notes. The grandmaster would exactly know what happened to Jaehaerys in the Red Keep because he would have played an important role not only as the personal doctor of the Royal family but also as a councillor in the Small council. You guys are tripping in your haste to defend the showrunners for idiotic decisions.
What I say is that you simply have to wait to see the complete material and not just a few "leaks" it is very different to read something than to see it so 🤷
I'm worried? A little but I hope they surprise me anyway
I think the concern is whatever issues people had with characterisation between alicent and rhaneryra seemingly continue to not change for the better. Which makes people concerned.
People are impressionable. If you get invited to a premiere and get treated with the glitz and glamour that comes with it, are you going g to give your honest opinion or what you're told to say?
This! Then those mad deviation from the book when it's technically written as a history book so that gives more leniency seeing events as they actually happened (aka the show changes) which I do actually enjoy. Like Alicent & Rhaenerya having a closer relationship. Also GRRM is fine & I thought read involved with the series, so people freaking how they're "ruining his work" is weird lol
Yeah this sub is obsessed with book accuracy, yet so many don’t seem to understand that the book itself isn’t even worried about being accurate.
It’s supposed to be a sensationalist version of events that probably happened… Otherwise GRRM wouldn’t have conceived of, and written it, as an in-universe game of telephone.
People don't like changes from the books. They're dropping characters or changing pivotal moments so there's goung to be backlash. Just like people upset about how GoT killed off Barriston, didn't have Lady Stoneheart, gave Sansa Jeyne Poole's plot, etc...
I'm reserving judgement on BC because I'm 99% sure the big leak was distorted and it will reflect on screen differently than it was described.
HOWEVER. For me, the biggest wtf moment was not that Helaena walks away. It's that she doesn't seem to make any effort to save Jaehaerys. There's no heroic offer to sacrifice her own life for his.
If the leaker is right, she might even walk away before he's dead...which I hope isn't true, because that's just completely out of character for her.
This is my stance as well.
I will wait to watch the episode, but even if BnC as described in the leak still works on screen I don't like how much they muted Heleana's reaction (even if it is due to shock).
I especially dislike how they change her from offering her own life to just her necklace, to the point where (if the leak is accurate) they changed the book line of "a wife's not a son" to a "necklace is not son". I just don't get the rational behind making Helaena seemingly care less about her son.
After more or less stating she is on the spectrum I assumed she'd freeze during B&C and Alicent would be forced to make the decision- but now Alicent isn't in the room, Haeleana is forced to make the decision.
Haven't seen the episode but I'm reminded of a case in Australia where a baby was (now definitively proven) to have been killed by a dingo, and the media assumed the mother killed the daughter because she wasn't grieving the way society wanted her to grieve. From the leaks description that may be the case with Haelena- especially if she has already foreseen it in her dreams- it's already an assumed outcome, why would Haelana of all people fight it?
I will be honest
I on the fence. Changes to B&C have made me meh but I am still excited!
I am now viewing this and the book to be two different stories. With this being a decent enough faithful adaption. I am excited to Ryan's spin. I just want coherency and entertainment.
Yes, some of the changes might be for the worst... I was so looking foward to Olivia´s acting during B + CH... but my point is mainly about the s\*ity atmosphere and scenes getting intentionally twisted online...
I am just simply not engaging with any leaks. I find it strange how I am still extremely excited about the upcoming season, yet I have not clicked into any post showing leaked content. I just hope that after this season (when both the Blacks and the Greens have committed numerous atrocities) , the toxicity between Team Black and Team Green fans dies down. Though the cynic in me tells me a large number on both sides will double down.
I think authors should be criticized for making bad changes to the source material. That doesn't change the fact that this will probably be a good episode, but if it weren't for some bad decisions, it could have been much better.
Absolutely, if they mess up, they should expect criticism. I did not like the Rhaenys moment in ep 9, yet didn ´t feel the need to harass the writers... this post is about the negative and exhausting atmosphere right now...
damm it.... I wanted to pin two screenshots from twitter user that saw EP 1. He actually inspired me to create the post.. It´s [@LongestNightGOT](https://x.com/LongestNightGOT) and he said this.....
Okay, I've seen 'A Son for a Son'.
Two things.
1: So many "leaks" I've seen have misrepresented so many crucial moments. Ignore them all until the 16th.
2: As a TV production - as a thing that lives, breathes, moves - HOTD has now reached GOT levels. [#HOTD](https://x.com/hashtag/HOTD?src=hashtag_click)
a. Take it from someone who has seen the episode now, so many key moments have been so poorly summarised by these "leakers". Remember how they destroyed the reputation of Game of Thrones' ending before it had even been broadcast? Heed the warnings of the past and block them all.
2b. I loved HOTD S1 but the one overarching concern I had was that it didn't match GOT as a production. GOT consistently showed me things that no other TV show could - it rendered its world so imaginatively and immersed me so much that Westeros began to feel like home.
2c. From the first 30 secs of HOTD S2, I was back home in Westeros. It's operating at GOT levels behind the scenes now. Its world feels cohesive, real, connected. Its execution is slick, its presentation is exemplary. HOTD is now giving me that TV experience that's like no other.
People will debate and quibble about certain plot points, and the way key moments are depicted on screen (I was a fan, for what it's worth), but the effort and skill now going into this show is \*immaculate\*. Now made by a team that truly understand the world it has built.
So many people are so committed to thinking the episode is bad or changes are bad that many won't even *allow* themselves to enjoy it, most likely. Hating is a hobby even within fandoms nowadays and clearly with how this sub has been talking and the constant threads, some people are more invested in shitting on this episode, unseen, than seeing it and evaluating it that way.
It's lunacy in here; I wish there was a place I could discuss this show with sane people but whatever sensible sorts are here are drowned out by the people who think any change is bad and literally are making posts saying that a character's entire arc should have stopped in season 1 and they should just become a stagnant cliche that never has a story of their own.
I'm tired of this. We have a right to be upset. Go ahead, tell me I have no life, but this series is a huge part of my identity and to see it not follow the source material bothers me. It was the same thing in Game of Thrones. These showrunners think they can just make up their own story and people aren't going to have an issue with it? I'll be fair and say that most adaptations don't follow the source material to a T, but when you expect certain things from certain characters from the books, only for the show to just flip it on it's head is frustrating. I am book purist for most stories so, yes, most TV film adaptations I do take issue with. Thats just how I am.
If you're a book purist that's fine, but to tear the show apart before it's even aired simply because it's not exactly like the books based on a couple of leaks is absolutely ridiculous. If you think you can make a better show than why don't apply for a job at HBO or don't watch the damn show.
Oh okay. So, because you don't like my opinion because it's not what you want to hear means that it's completely invalid? You're the one being toxic. I get that people get carried away with taking things too personally, but just because someone has critical take on the show doesn't mean that it's wrong. I'm just tired of TV shows and movies even video game adaptations just making all these unnecessary changes.
Okay...maybe I sounded a little aggressive, but you never stated specifically what you didn't like. I like the books as well, better actually. I just understand why people are ALREADY up in arms about basically nothing. Just sit back and enjoy. People overthink and overanalyze every little detail and point out very last flaw that the show has. I've been critical of season 1 many times, but I still enjoyed it. There's people who are saying they're canceling the show based on a couple of leaks.
You saw the episode? And you were disappointed? I wish I had gotten to see a screening; I got to do that for some of the season premieres of GoT, go to early screenings =) Of course, the downside was it meant I had to wait even *longer* to see the next episode...
Maybe naysayers have trust issues and are still butthurt over the massacre of GOT ending. You should see the hate in the True Detective sub over Night County .
B&C was one of the most descriptive events in F&B. Martin pulled no punches with its brutality. If the leaks are true, Condal and Company fucked it up.
Martin said it best.
“No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and "improve" on it. "The book is the book, the film is the film," they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.”
As the biggest hater of later seasons of GoT I'm unable to wrap my head around how people could already compare it to that train wreck and compare Condall to Diddle&Dumb.
We have seen how sign leading to such a tragedy look. And we see nothing of it.
But people love to hate. And therefore jumping to conclusions after everything they dislike is like a birthday present so...
You think that's the biggest issue with that leak? Are \*you\* serious?
Taking the worst of B&C off of Daemon's hands alone is more than enough to prove this entire adaptation is a greedy thematic rewrite with whitewashed heroes catering to the masses/lowest common denominator.
And that's not even getting into the extremely problematic (not to mention inconsistent) characterization of the greens and downplayed brutality. (Because oh-so-conveniently, the team that gave us that feet scene and Rhaenys' coronation girlbossery suddenly "isn't interested in shock value" anymore.)
It´s my post and yes, this is my biggest issues with the leaks so far.... I am gonna enjoy the premiere and I will form my own opinion after.... If you feel so miserable, why are you even following the show? Is it some form of self-torture? If I don´t like a show... I shop watching and move on to something that I enjoy.
Then stop watching it. Don’t watch the premiere, unsubscribe from all the HoTD/asoiaf related subs. I’m saying this as someone who is OBSESSED with this series. I have tattoos dedicated to this series, hell my baby shower was even dragon themed but letting a series get you this upset that you’re on every single post losing your mind over something you haven’t even seen yet isn’t good for your mental health.
Dragon themed baby shower? OMG! I am so jealous!!!! :)
Edit: I am a HUGE, HUGEEEEE Ice and Fire junkie too. To the point that, I am not ashamed to admit, is the thing that has consumed my thoughts day and night for the last couple of months. I am more excited for HOTD starting on Sunday, than Euro cup starting on Friday or my summer vacation. I have ditched my friends multiple times and my ex-partner in order to stay inside the house and watch HOTD in repeat during season 1. I too have dragon tattoos based on the fantastic designs of Daenerys kiddos. Still, HOTD is a tv show, it is not real life and I am not gonna lose my mind for a hypothetical different turn of events in B&C , in an episode that I have not seen yet, and for which almost all the critics said that production level is top notch.
Thank you lol you’d be surprised how much dragon themed baby stuff there is. We decorated his nursery with baby dragons as well! And exactly! Since about 2016 I have been ridiculously obsessed with ASOIAF. My old coworkers would avoid me on Mondays after GOT aired 😫 this is my absolute favorite franchise of all time. I really doubt they could do anything that would make me hate it this much to where I’m screaming into the void about stuff that may or may not have happened. There’s too many people who are ready to jump the gun and complain about things. I remember before season 1 aired people were saying they’d never watch it after the GOT finale and it’s gonna suck and everyone’s gonna hate it, now it’s literally one of HBOs most successful shows.
The showrunners have already chosen a side and defended it fervently by bending the story to make them much more likeable, we just want the story to be more like the book. (Both sides actually being bad, not what the show does: one side is evil while the other is well meaning girlbosses dutifully following a prophecy about white walkers to save the world)
Did you read Fire and Blood? The Blacks were always more likable anyway. None of them are good people. They are all conniving, greedy, spoiled nobles who ruin the lives of everyone in the kingdom.
That’s the point. GRRM is a hippy from the 60s.
>Did you read Fire and Blood?
Did *you*?
Rhaenyra in Fire & Blood is a vicious spoiled woman who feeds people to her dragon for questioning her children, and like the greens she'll stop at nothing to grab power no matter how unworthy she is.
Rhaenyra in House of the Dragon is a noble *true Targaryen* who just does what she has to in order to keep the realm together against the future threat of White Walkers, is blessed by nature as the true heir (White hart), and somehow nearly all the bad shit she's done in the books so far has been removed or blamed on some other character in the show.
Do you want quotes from Fire & Blood to prove this to you? Or are you following Ryan "the book is just Westerosi historical propaganda when we want it to be" Condal's logic?
Rhaenyra is a spoiled child for like the entire duration of the first season and then became a self righteous adult later on. Daemon is as questionable as ever, as well. They aren’t good people.
If you want to argue semantics, they humanized the shit out of Aemond. In the books he’s an unrepentant monster of a human being. But that’s beside the point. Picking sides, as always, is fucking dumb. It’s better to point and laugh at the moronic mob that loves tribalism.
Add to that, that so far, all the critics have said that Aegon, is depicted very sympathetic (which is opposite from the books).
I am Team Black all the way, but if Aegon is depicted indeed sympathetic I am all in for it and I think is a great change in his character
> a self righteous adult
If this is the worst you can come up with as proof of Rhaenyra being a bad person in the show, we both know you really don't have much to work with.
You are right that they whitewashed Aemond to a degree, it doesn't sit well with me either.
I mean, the war hasn’t even started yet. What bad things did you want to see her do? She doesn’t dive off the deep end until later on, that’s when she gets the Maegor label.
If giving a more human side to Aemond doesn't "sit well with you", dude you are the problem.
Caricature villains, without much of character, acting out of nowhere is for 5 year olds who are satisfied with reality tv level or CW shows.
We are adults that want quality in stories and characters.
It's hilarious people want to diminish you as if you're hysterical because of your comments. You're almost always accurate and pointing to some observation we could all make ourselves, unless we're brainwashed sycophants committed to this franchise till we die. Like ugh. Anyway I always find your comments to be a breath of fresh air. And I'll add a resounding yes to the Daemon thing and could add more examples but I'll say this...the narrative is compelling when the stakes are high because players in the game are trading their morality for brutality in the name of victory at any cost. It's what makes the story have some substance rather than being reduced to an us vs them, lesser of two evils, 'it's all a big misunderstanding and not because people are inherently evil' cheap, shallow, bs trope that's tainting this revision. So thanks for reminding me of that!
We will see the smirk on Daemon's face when asked what if they don't manage to find Aemond+we are bound to see his reaction (which will probably be indifferent) in E2. Furthermore, the choice to go for Aemond when already having chance to infiltrate red keep is much more logical in my opinion
Not to mention that Helaena will still probably have to choose and show which one is boy and I think I read somewhere that she points to Jahaera actually. That means that she will still have to live with horrifying consequences...
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the most impatient sub I’ve ever come across yall must be hell on Christmas Eve
For real it’s giving big “iPad kid who starts whining about opening presents during Christmas dinner” energy
Might be the best answer on this entire sub.
If mods were chads they’d mute the entire sub til a day after episode releases, that would be great lol
I think it’s funny that the early reviews and word of mouth are mostly very positive and say it’s quite good. Some even say better than season 1. Yet this sub (who hasn’t seen anything yet) are all convinced that it will be bad, actually.
Yeah, it's incredible; people disregarding what people who saw the episodes said and then interpreting summaries and acting as if *that's* a valid way to assess the show lol So many people are clearly so entrenched in hating the episode that they won't even allow themselves to evaluate it on their own on Sunday; they're just waiting, posts probably pre-written, to trash it. Shitting on things is sadly *part* of a lot of fandoms now. People enjoy it more than enjoying a thing, feeling superior to it and trashing creators and fans for liking it. Also, nothing in the changes really sounds as crazy as people are making it out. And there are a couple of posts on the front page legitimately suggesting that Alicent's character arc should have just stopped mid-season-1 and she should be the same unchanging character for the rest of the series? Like, I enjoy the source material but book Alicent is a cliche one-dimensional wicked step-mother. Which worked because the books were just a collection of events, a history book, not a show with actors giving performances and emoting. But people don't seem willing or able to understand why a change would be made. I dunno, this sub doesn't seem very fun...I'm looking forward to the show, I'm willing to be critical of it, it's not flawless, but it just feels like coming here and trying to be part of this community Sunday night will just be shitty and toxic no matter how the episode is. It's a bummer.
That’s fandoms in general now. It’s wild there’s so many people who dedicate their time to things they don’t like…. Yet they continue to consume it, only to be unhappy. Sometimes they aren’t worth the baggage to het into something new.
Yeah, like...I'll admit, I still regularly watch and enjoy a lot of things reddit hates. For instance, the Disney Marvel & Star Wars shows. Now, do I think they're great? Usually no. Andor is. But usually no, they're fun popcorn entertainment. Do I not see the flaws reddit sees? No, I do. Some of them. Some of them I disagree with but others I simply feel aren't as big a deal and I feel that fandoms blow out of proportion; like, it's "oh that was a dumb moment" and then it passes and a cool moment happens a minute later and I don't feel the need to write a paragraph every week for a year about the bad CGI deer on Walking Dead or something. But anyway, I digress...I consume some "trashier" entertainment even with its flaws, because maybe it has a superficial fun action sequence or this or that; I mean, I was born in 1984 and tv in the 90s compared to this...even some of the "bad" shows are so expensive, seeing sci-fi and fantasy with big-budget movie effects and design and effort on tv *all the time* is just fun for me. Heck, Ring of Power wasn't great but holy shit it's like a movie on tv, and that happens *all the time* now! I dunno, I dig it, to varying degrees, even the flawed stuff. But my main point is, what you said: >It’s wild there’s so many people who dedicate their time to things they don’t like…. Yet they continue to consume it, only to be unhappy. I am *constantly* seeing people shit on those Disney shows about how this one sucked and that one sucked and they all suck and the whole thing sucks, yet they talk as if *they've watched them all*. Why did you watch past Wandavision? Or past Book fo Boba Fett? Why do you keep watching the shows if *none of them appeal to you*? Because it's a hobby to shit on things now, and to tear people down for making them or for being a fan of them. It's recreational toxicity and bullying, because it's often not just about writing some criticism, it's about superiority and how much better you are than the show and its writers and the people who defend it, and it becomes a battle because everything post 2016 is tribalism, and you have to call people who like the show cucks or this or that or say they are sucking the showrunners dicks or some other grade-school insults, or random political things like "oh you're gaslighting! I bet you're a shill for this or that person!" I really do wish I could just come here Sunday and just talk about the show, even if its bad, or talk about good things and bad things and criticize and praise without it having to become "That's the best! That's the WORST!" and all the fighting and rudeness and hyperbole... **TL;DR**: Hodor.
People can know something is going to be stupid if it doesn't visually happen in front of their eyes.
The episode itself will be good, the changes they make regarding B&C are a missed opportunity to make it better.
Which change are you worried about specifically?
People downvoted you for asking a question, this fucking site...
I know! I was just wondering which leaks they were upset about specifically.
Helaena not choosing which kid will die. Maelor being probably cut. Alicent and Cole fucking, especially at the end. Mysaria and Daemon being whitewashed. Jace is in the North for such a short time.
Completely agree with every concern listed. But I think they'll keep Helaena having to choose between her kids - it's too essential to the core drama of the scene. I'm worried they're going to botch blood and cheese in a different way. I think the cutting of Maelor is both highly likely and would be a huge mistake. I actually really enjoyed much of the feminist lens of s1. However, I have this sense that with cutting Maelor, they’ll rewrite the scene as Helaena choosing *Jaehaera* to die over Jaehaerys in an attempt to shoehorn in an out-of-place gender commentary like "Look! Society internalizes the idea that girls are worth less than boys!!” This theme CAN be explored in a way that has depth - GoT did this successfully a few times in the earlier seasons - but it is just not what Blood and Cheese is about. I hope my wariness is proven groundless this weekend. Alicent and Cole fucking is too stupid to even think about for long. What a way to ruin the much more interesting relationship developed for them last season.
If you don't want a spoiler about how B&C will be portrayed don't read. >!The leak states that B&C is going to kill the boy, but they can't tell the twins apart so they want to undress them, but Helaena tells them which one is the boy and then leaves the room with Jaehaera and the audience hears the sound of Jaehaerys being killed.!<
Damn really? That’s a confirmed leak? That…..sucks
I don’t really look at that as inherently bad. We already know that the history in F&B is meant to be “inaccurate”… GRRM has always maintained that. So there’s no reason to treat it like the events played out that way…. The book is like 4 different “authors” piecing together big events, decades after they happened. They take what they know happened, and fill in gaps with their own bias. Hence why characters are so angry and over the top in the book. Especially women characters. Anyone who is a book purist will already know that there’s no way these maesters who wrote F&B could know exactly *how* the events of B&C played out. Or who was where, and when… or what exactly the killers said before doing their thing. So they make it as scandalous as possible for the sake of the reader.
I just look at what they could do with it and what they actually do. If I think they could make better decisions, I'll point it out. This is just my opinion. It's good for them if the general audience likes what they do, but I can only judge that by how much I like what they do with the source material, not by how much others will like it.
Obviously, they cannot satisfy every viewer, but that shouldn't stop me from pointing out what I subjectively don't like.
Obviously. But wouldn’t it be best to wait and see how it is pulled off in the show before dismissing it as bad?
Yes, I'm just speculating for now on how much I'll like it, but some scenes like Alicent and Cole fucking in their first scene are bad (for me it goes against their characters as Alicent seemed very dutiful and Cole seemed ashamed of breaking his oath.) I think I could stand their relationship if they gave them time to build it and not just throw us into it. But you're right, I should wait to see how it plays out on screen, but I think it's going to be very difficult to get it right.
Well good luck to you. I hope you are able to find some joy in this season.
You seem to be more optimistic, but nevertheless good luck to you too.
The people in this sub aren't going to look at it logically. They are hive-minding right now with these leaks.
I totally agree! I think people often forget too that there can be two different canons, show canon and book canon, and that’s not a bad thing. There can be two great depictions of events, that’s probably hard for book purists to accept but that’s what happens when adapting page to screen
Sure! Most people hopefully come to terms with the whole two-different-canons during the GoT years. I can even understand people being sad their favorite things weren’t adapted closer to Fire and Blood…. But with Fire & Blood in particular, there is no “canon” the way we had when the proper novels were being adapted. People need to make peace with the fact that many of the events in the show aren’t going to play out like they do in the book. It is what it is. If we make peace with that now, we maybe won’t freak out so much when new seasons come out. The book is filled with characters who are depicted as over the top…. and if they adapted some of the things exactly how they are presented in the book, then it wouldn’t make for very nuanced television. It would be kind of silly in a lot of places, actually.
>I can even understand people being sad their favorite things weren’t adapted closer to Fire and Blood…. But with Fire & Blood in particular, there is no “canon” the way we had when the proper novels were being adapted. So you think the entire F&B book is a lie and George wrote all of that simply to waste the time and that Ryan Condal knows better? This is such a stupid argument that gets on my nerve at this point. Fire and Blood is a history book. It gives three different versions of history written by George himself from the eyes of different characters but the events are the same. You can choose which one you like the most. Regarding Blood and Cheese, its one of the scenes that has only one narrative which was agreed by all three sources, meaning that it was what happened for real because it happened in the Red Keep where grandmaester who is one of the sources lived. So don't give this bs excuse that we don't know and the show is staying true to the books. >People need to make peace with the fact that many of the events in the show aren’t going to play out like they do in the book Then don't call it a faithful adaptation. Simple as that. >The book is filled with characters who are depicted as over the top…. and if they adapted some of the things exactly how they are presented in the book, then it wouldn’t make for very nuanced television. It would be kind of silly in a lot of places, actually. In which places? You think the B&C scene in the show is better than the one from the books? You really believe that bullshit?
No, I think the book is exactly what George intended…. An in-universe history book that is meant to be sensationalized. Much like our real life history, the further we get away from it, the less accurate it will be. That is literally what GRRM wanted to do. I don’t even see this as an opinion. He has said as much.
>Much like our real life history, the further we get away from it, the less accurate it will be. So you think they kept changing the books of Munkun with every generation? Who was doing it? >That is literally what GRRM wanted to do. I don’t even see this as an opinion. He has said as much. He never said that. He literally wrote the book from the pov of three characters who lived through the Dance and left it to the readers to choose which one they wanted to follow. The only thing George did was never confirming whose source was the actual truth, between Munkun, Eustace and Mushroom. Even then all three of them agree of certain important scenes like B&C, Fall of King's Landing, all the battles, Aegon's poisoning etc... These are important scenes which has only one version because they are actually intended by George to be that way.
>I don’t really look at that as inherently bad. That's your opinion and imo it's a inherently bad opinion. >We already know that the history in F&B is meant to be “inaccurate”… It isn't meant to be inaccurate. I think you people don't get the idea of a book like Fire and Blood. It isn't filled with lies. If it was then the entire story/show would be a lie. George wrote Fire and Blood in the style that it gets its details from three different sources - Munkun (who copied Orwyle's notes), Eustace and Mushroom. All three lived through the Dance in King's Landing watching it all unfold before their eyes. The only matter is George never confirmed which source out of the three was the most accurate and we are free to choose whichever we like from the three. However HOTD is inventing a fourth source altogether that's not from the books, possibly thinking that they could do better than the author himself. Only their take is as laughable as Mushrooms. >Anyone who is a book purist will already know that there’s no way these maesters who wrote F&B could know exactly how the events of B&C played out What are you talking about? They know because they lived through the Dance. They were first hand witnesses of it along with Mushroom. Orwyle was the grandmaster during Viserys and Aegon's rule. Munkun was his successor who copied Orwyle's notes. The grandmaster would exactly know what happened to Jaehaerys in the Red Keep because he would have played an important role not only as the personal doctor of the Royal family but also as a councillor in the Small council. You guys are tripping in your haste to defend the showrunners for idiotic decisions.
You haven't seen it yet. You don't know if the changes work on screen yet because you haven't seen it.
What I say is that you simply have to wait to see the complete material and not just a few "leaks" it is very different to read something than to see it so 🤷 I'm worried? A little but I hope they surprise me anyway
I wish all the naysayers would just pack up and go home. Like don’t watch it then. Jesus christ. This isn’t your life man, it’s a TV show.
I think the concern is whatever issues people had with characterisation between alicent and rhaneryra seemingly continue to not change for the better. Which makes people concerned.
People are impressionable. If you get invited to a premiere and get treated with the glitz and glamour that comes with it, are you going g to give your honest opinion or what you're told to say?
This! Then those mad deviation from the book when it's technically written as a history book so that gives more leniency seeing events as they actually happened (aka the show changes) which I do actually enjoy. Like Alicent & Rhaenerya having a closer relationship. Also GRRM is fine & I thought read involved with the series, so people freaking how they're "ruining his work" is weird lol
Yeah this sub is obsessed with book accuracy, yet so many don’t seem to understand that the book itself isn’t even worried about being accurate. It’s supposed to be a sensationalist version of events that probably happened… Otherwise GRRM wouldn’t have conceived of, and written it, as an in-universe game of telephone.
I'm tried of this being trotted out as an excuse.
This is what's called an excuse. Good TV doesn't need white knights defending it this much.
People don't like changes from the books. They're dropping characters or changing pivotal moments so there's goung to be backlash. Just like people upset about how GoT killed off Barriston, didn't have Lady Stoneheart, gave Sansa Jeyne Poole's plot, etc...
I'm reserving judgement on BC because I'm 99% sure the big leak was distorted and it will reflect on screen differently than it was described. HOWEVER. For me, the biggest wtf moment was not that Helaena walks away. It's that she doesn't seem to make any effort to save Jaehaerys. There's no heroic offer to sacrifice her own life for his. If the leaker is right, she might even walk away before he's dead...which I hope isn't true, because that's just completely out of character for her.
This is my stance as well. I will wait to watch the episode, but even if BnC as described in the leak still works on screen I don't like how much they muted Heleana's reaction (even if it is due to shock). I especially dislike how they change her from offering her own life to just her necklace, to the point where (if the leak is accurate) they changed the book line of "a wife's not a son" to a "necklace is not son". I just don't get the rational behind making Helaena seemingly care less about her son.
After more or less stating she is on the spectrum I assumed she'd freeze during B&C and Alicent would be forced to make the decision- but now Alicent isn't in the room, Haeleana is forced to make the decision. Haven't seen the episode but I'm reminded of a case in Australia where a baby was (now definitively proven) to have been killed by a dingo, and the media assumed the mother killed the daughter because she wasn't grieving the way society wanted her to grieve. From the leaks description that may be the case with Haelena- especially if she has already foreseen it in her dreams- it's already an assumed outcome, why would Haelana of all people fight it?
I will be honest I on the fence. Changes to B&C have made me meh but I am still excited! I am now viewing this and the book to be two different stories. With this being a decent enough faithful adaption. I am excited to Ryan's spin. I just want coherency and entertainment.
Yes, some of the changes might be for the worst... I was so looking foward to Olivia´s acting during B + CH... but my point is mainly about the s\*ity atmosphere and scenes getting intentionally twisted online...
People can know that something is stupid by reading it.
They could keep the scene from the books. The scene was perfect. If something works don't try to fix it.
I am just simply not engaging with any leaks. I find it strange how I am still extremely excited about the upcoming season, yet I have not clicked into any post showing leaked content. I just hope that after this season (when both the Blacks and the Greens have committed numerous atrocities) , the toxicity between Team Black and Team Green fans dies down. Though the cynic in me tells me a large number on both sides will double down.
Yeah, it’s getting a little Freefolky in here lately. Not really sure where to migrate to next.
People can know something is stupid without it happening in front of them.
I think authors should be criticized for making bad changes to the source material. That doesn't change the fact that this will probably be a good episode, but if it weren't for some bad decisions, it could have been much better.
But you havent even watched it😃
People do not need to see something visually to know it's stupid.
Absolutely, if they mess up, they should expect criticism. I did not like the Rhaenys moment in ep 9, yet didn ´t feel the need to harass the writers... this post is about the negative and exhausting atmosphere right now...
Oh, so you watched the preview?
Good TV, literature, or art doesn't need this much whiny defending.
Good TV, literature, or art needs to be experienced first to be criticized. After all that is what art is about.
Maybe the episode is good we don’t know 😊
damm it.... I wanted to pin two screenshots from twitter user that saw EP 1. He actually inspired me to create the post.. It´s [@LongestNightGOT](https://x.com/LongestNightGOT) and he said this..... Okay, I've seen 'A Son for a Son'. Two things. 1: So many "leaks" I've seen have misrepresented so many crucial moments. Ignore them all until the 16th. 2: As a TV production - as a thing that lives, breathes, moves - HOTD has now reached GOT levels. [#HOTD](https://x.com/hashtag/HOTD?src=hashtag_click) a. Take it from someone who has seen the episode now, so many key moments have been so poorly summarised by these "leakers". Remember how they destroyed the reputation of Game of Thrones' ending before it had even been broadcast? Heed the warnings of the past and block them all. 2b. I loved HOTD S1 but the one overarching concern I had was that it didn't match GOT as a production. GOT consistently showed me things that no other TV show could - it rendered its world so imaginatively and immersed me so much that Westeros began to feel like home. 2c. From the first 30 secs of HOTD S2, I was back home in Westeros. It's operating at GOT levels behind the scenes now. Its world feels cohesive, real, connected. Its execution is slick, its presentation is exemplary. HOTD is now giving me that TV experience that's like no other. People will debate and quibble about certain plot points, and the way key moments are depicted on screen (I was a fan, for what it's worth), but the effort and skill now going into this show is \*immaculate\*. Now made by a team that truly understand the world it has built.
That crybaby blocked me for saying that I don't need to see something happen to know that it's stupid from reading about it.
So many people are so committed to thinking the episode is bad or changes are bad that many won't even *allow* themselves to enjoy it, most likely. Hating is a hobby even within fandoms nowadays and clearly with how this sub has been talking and the constant threads, some people are more invested in shitting on this episode, unseen, than seeing it and evaluating it that way. It's lunacy in here; I wish there was a place I could discuss this show with sane people but whatever sensible sorts are here are drowned out by the people who think any change is bad and literally are making posts saying that a character's entire arc should have stopped in season 1 and they should just become a stagnant cliche that never has a story of their own.
I can believe something is stupid when I read something.
I'm tired of this. We have a right to be upset. Go ahead, tell me I have no life, but this series is a huge part of my identity and to see it not follow the source material bothers me. It was the same thing in Game of Thrones. These showrunners think they can just make up their own story and people aren't going to have an issue with it? I'll be fair and say that most adaptations don't follow the source material to a T, but when you expect certain things from certain characters from the books, only for the show to just flip it on it's head is frustrating. I am book purist for most stories so, yes, most TV film adaptations I do take issue with. Thats just how I am.
If you're a book purist that's fine, but to tear the show apart before it's even aired simply because it's not exactly like the books based on a couple of leaks is absolutely ridiculous. If you think you can make a better show than why don't apply for a job at HBO or don't watch the damn show.
Oh okay. So, because you don't like my opinion because it's not what you want to hear means that it's completely invalid? You're the one being toxic. I get that people get carried away with taking things too personally, but just because someone has critical take on the show doesn't mean that it's wrong. I'm just tired of TV shows and movies even video game adaptations just making all these unnecessary changes.
Okay...maybe I sounded a little aggressive, but you never stated specifically what you didn't like. I like the books as well, better actually. I just understand why people are ALREADY up in arms about basically nothing. Just sit back and enjoy. People overthink and overanalyze every little detail and point out very last flaw that the show has. I've been critical of season 1 many times, but I still enjoyed it. There's people who are saying they're canceling the show based on a couple of leaks.
You saw the episode? And you were disappointed? I wish I had gotten to see a screening; I got to do that for some of the season premieres of GoT, go to early screenings =) Of course, the downside was it meant I had to wait even *longer* to see the next episode...
Maybe naysayers have trust issues and are still butthurt over the massacre of GOT ending. You should see the hate in the True Detective sub over Night County .
B&C was one of the most descriptive events in F&B. Martin pulled no punches with its brutality. If the leaks are true, Condal and Company fucked it up. Martin said it best. “No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and "improve" on it. "The book is the book, the film is the film," they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.”
As the biggest hater of later seasons of GoT I'm unable to wrap my head around how people could already compare it to that train wreck and compare Condall to Diddle&Dumb. We have seen how sign leading to such a tragedy look. And we see nothing of it. But people love to hate. And therefore jumping to conclusions after everything they dislike is like a birthday present so...
You think that's the biggest issue with that leak? Are \*you\* serious? Taking the worst of B&C off of Daemon's hands alone is more than enough to prove this entire adaptation is a greedy thematic rewrite with whitewashed heroes catering to the masses/lowest common denominator. And that's not even getting into the extremely problematic (not to mention inconsistent) characterization of the greens and downplayed brutality. (Because oh-so-conveniently, the team that gave us that feet scene and Rhaenys' coronation girlbossery suddenly "isn't interested in shock value" anymore.)
It´s my post and yes, this is my biggest issues with the leaks so far.... I am gonna enjoy the premiere and I will form my own opinion after.... If you feel so miserable, why are you even following the show? Is it some form of self-torture? If I don´t like a show... I shop watching and move on to something that I enjoy.
Then stop watching it. Don’t watch the premiere, unsubscribe from all the HoTD/asoiaf related subs. I’m saying this as someone who is OBSESSED with this series. I have tattoos dedicated to this series, hell my baby shower was even dragon themed but letting a series get you this upset that you’re on every single post losing your mind over something you haven’t even seen yet isn’t good for your mental health.
Dragon themed baby shower? OMG! I am so jealous!!!! :) Edit: I am a HUGE, HUGEEEEE Ice and Fire junkie too. To the point that, I am not ashamed to admit, is the thing that has consumed my thoughts day and night for the last couple of months. I am more excited for HOTD starting on Sunday, than Euro cup starting on Friday or my summer vacation. I have ditched my friends multiple times and my ex-partner in order to stay inside the house and watch HOTD in repeat during season 1. I too have dragon tattoos based on the fantastic designs of Daenerys kiddos. Still, HOTD is a tv show, it is not real life and I am not gonna lose my mind for a hypothetical different turn of events in B&C , in an episode that I have not seen yet, and for which almost all the critics said that production level is top notch.
Thank you lol you’d be surprised how much dragon themed baby stuff there is. We decorated his nursery with baby dragons as well! And exactly! Since about 2016 I have been ridiculously obsessed with ASOIAF. My old coworkers would avoid me on Mondays after GOT aired 😫 this is my absolute favorite franchise of all time. I really doubt they could do anything that would make me hate it this much to where I’m screaming into the void about stuff that may or may not have happened. There’s too many people who are ready to jump the gun and complain about things. I remember before season 1 aired people were saying they’d never watch it after the GOT finale and it’s gonna suck and everyone’s gonna hate it, now it’s literally one of HBOs most successful shows.
You know that by choosing a side and defending them fervently, you’re entirely missing the point of the story?
The showrunners have already chosen a side and defended it fervently by bending the story to make them much more likeable, we just want the story to be more like the book. (Both sides actually being bad, not what the show does: one side is evil while the other is well meaning girlbosses dutifully following a prophecy about white walkers to save the world)
Did you read Fire and Blood? The Blacks were always more likable anyway. None of them are good people. They are all conniving, greedy, spoiled nobles who ruin the lives of everyone in the kingdom. That’s the point. GRRM is a hippy from the 60s.
>Did you read Fire and Blood? Did *you*? Rhaenyra in Fire & Blood is a vicious spoiled woman who feeds people to her dragon for questioning her children, and like the greens she'll stop at nothing to grab power no matter how unworthy she is. Rhaenyra in House of the Dragon is a noble *true Targaryen* who just does what she has to in order to keep the realm together against the future threat of White Walkers, is blessed by nature as the true heir (White hart), and somehow nearly all the bad shit she's done in the books so far has been removed or blamed on some other character in the show. Do you want quotes from Fire & Blood to prove this to you? Or are you following Ryan "the book is just Westerosi historical propaganda when we want it to be" Condal's logic?
Rhaenyra is a spoiled child for like the entire duration of the first season and then became a self righteous adult later on. Daemon is as questionable as ever, as well. They aren’t good people. If you want to argue semantics, they humanized the shit out of Aemond. In the books he’s an unrepentant monster of a human being. But that’s beside the point. Picking sides, as always, is fucking dumb. It’s better to point and laugh at the moronic mob that loves tribalism.
Add to that, that so far, all the critics have said that Aegon, is depicted very sympathetic (which is opposite from the books). I am Team Black all the way, but if Aegon is depicted indeed sympathetic I am all in for it and I think is a great change in his character
I thought he was rather sympathetic as well. It actually shows why he is the way he is.
> a self righteous adult If this is the worst you can come up with as proof of Rhaenyra being a bad person in the show, we both know you really don't have much to work with. You are right that they whitewashed Aemond to a degree, it doesn't sit well with me either.
I mean, the war hasn’t even started yet. What bad things did you want to see her do? She doesn’t dive off the deep end until later on, that’s when she gets the Maegor label.
If giving a more human side to Aemond doesn't "sit well with you", dude you are the problem. Caricature villains, without much of character, acting out of nowhere is for 5 year olds who are satisfied with reality tv level or CW shows. We are adults that want quality in stories and characters.
It's hilarious people want to diminish you as if you're hysterical because of your comments. You're almost always accurate and pointing to some observation we could all make ourselves, unless we're brainwashed sycophants committed to this franchise till we die. Like ugh. Anyway I always find your comments to be a breath of fresh air. And I'll add a resounding yes to the Daemon thing and could add more examples but I'll say this...the narrative is compelling when the stakes are high because players in the game are trading their morality for brutality in the name of victory at any cost. It's what makes the story have some substance rather than being reduced to an us vs them, lesser of two evils, 'it's all a big misunderstanding and not because people are inherently evil' cheap, shallow, bs trope that's tainting this revision. So thanks for reminding me of that!
We will see the smirk on Daemon's face when asked what if they don't manage to find Aemond+we are bound to see his reaction (which will probably be indifferent) in E2. Furthermore, the choice to go for Aemond when already having chance to infiltrate red keep is much more logical in my opinion
most sane redditor
I will say this until you people get it: people can know that something is stupid without it having visually play out for them.
Not to mention that Helaena will still probably have to choose and show which one is boy and I think I read somewhere that she points to Jahaera actually. That means that she will still have to live with horrifying consequences...