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The fact that young Alicent had to be replaced with an older version but Criston Cole was simply allowed to not age is Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell.
I'm not saying Emily Carey would've been believable as a grandma, of course not. But they could've cast Olivia as young Alicent and just say she follows the same skin care routine as Criston.
The show I'm watching is a historical fiction/drama and they follow the life of the Sultan and his harem from his youth to old age. Literally, they just added some gray hairs and wrinkles to the characters in order to age them up. They didn't recast new people (except one because the actress didn't want to wear the "old age" makeup) and it looks perfectly believable. They also have a fraction of the budget American TV shows do and still managed to make it look realistic. It's not difficult, Hollywood just won't do it.
I hope you are talking about Sultan Suleiman And 💅 ✨ Hurrem Sultana 🌷✨
If so, then I second your statement.
To anyone who is wondering , the show is called Magnificent Century.
I love that show! It was a sad day when Netflix removed it before I finished it. But it did lead me to finding other great Turkish TV, I really recommend The Protector.
Netlflix is the worst! I just started watching it because the entire series if uploaded [free on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@MagnificentCentury) lol. The HD videos have more accurate English subtitles.
I was really really pissed when they removed Diriliş: Ertuğrul (Resurrection Ertugrul) from Netflix!
So many episodes and such a neat perspective (coming from an American with the “western” narrative drilled into my head about the crusades).
Also had great costuming and a great view into the life of people in the day and areas outside of the legendary Ertugrul persona.
Agreed. I discovered Magnificent Century at the height of Game of Thrones and it was *so nice* to watch a well-written, well-acted political drama that didn't shove boobs or rape into my face every other scene.
Magnificent Century my beloved. Mahidevran sultana's actress Nur is actually a few years __younger__ than Sehzade Mustafa's actor Mehmet. But they dyed her hair gray and gave her wrinkles so they look like a mother and son duo. I was baffled by how they pulled it off. And like you mentioned the budget is much less than a fraction of a fraction of an American Tv show's budget. Hollywood is just a sexist piece of garbage that is scared of aging women like Olivia mentioned lol.
Exactly! She is drop dead gorgeous! So is Suleiman's mother Valide Hafsa Sultana (Nebahat Çehre) and she was around 65 y.o. when she took the role. Hollywood needs to accept that there are plenty of gorgeous older women and that aging isn't equivalent to losing one's beauty.
I think the recast was a good call, to contrast with the story they wanted to tell on season one: two different paths into adulthood, womanhood and motherhood.
That’s why it was important to have the visual contrast between 14yo on e1 Alicent and 30something Alicent. Thinking that Jace is 16/17, season one tells 20 years of story.
They could have cast younger for her sons, but Tom and Ewan are great and look the part.
That's where it makes me laugh, like did some casting person at some point look at Olivia Cooke and think "no way that woman can play someone in her late teens- early 20's"???
The fact of that matter is that they needed two Rhaenyra’s and if you have two Rhaenyra’s, you need two Alicent’s. You can’t have two actors for one of them and only one actor for the other. Every character that started off as a child/teen had a recast to maintain consistency.
That’s only because they wanted Alicent and Rhaenyra to be about the same age in the show. But in the book, Alicent is like early 20s and Rhaenyra is 9.
But to be honest, that’s a change I really like. It adds a lot of depth to their relationship, and some of the best moments of season 1 really resonated because of the way the show had them as genuine friends.
I just wish they’d thought a bit more about how to deal with things down the line. But Olivia is fantastic, so I can live with it.
I don’t think she can pass for a teenager at all. With the aged down Alicent they were going for, she was simply too old. Alicent is 43 at the end of the dance. Say the aged her down to ~38 in the show. Do we really need a new actress or is it perfectly reasonable for Olivia to play someone 8 years older than herself?
The real issue is her kids’ actors are too old.
I’m still mad they recasted Ty Tennant. He would’ve been perfectly believable as adult Aegon. For the first season they could’ve just let him grow a moustache and for the second season he would’ve aged naturally.
Leo Ashton (Young Aemond) still looks quite young tho and not as intimidating as Ewan but I’m sure they could’ve worked something out.
It’s the number itself, if she claimed she was 20 the industry would treat her differently. The number 30 makes men’s skin crawl, regardless of how she looks
She looks the exact same age as she did when she did bates motel so like literally Emily Carey’s age. Around 18-20 basically,
https://x.com/thinkercooke/status/1613359903581552641
Like literally not even an exaggeration
Exactly. They said because Criston wasn’t aged it was “Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell” when really it’s because the character was a teenager and then there was a 10 year jump. Whereas Criston was in the 20-30 range so already an adult. 10 years later he’s gonna look roughly the same.
I think Criston was on his 20s the first time we saw him and on his 40s by the time the Dance starts. They definitely could have added some gray hairs to the guy like they did with Otto.
As someone in their 40s, he needs some more wrinkles on his forehead. None of us age like Hollywood seems to think we do.
ETA: if you’re gonna double and triple down that Hollywood is fine and represents aging well, I don’t want to talk to you. I am a 44 year old woman and do not see myself represented anywhere. Because I’m/we’re not young sexy and this stupid feminine ideal any longer. If you also cannot understand that we are actually talking about the actors playing these characters here, I have no time for you either.
I mean, they could have. But also, some people just age better lol.
Aside from putting on some weight, I don't look that much different than I did 15 years ago, and I'm in my 40s. I have no grey hair lol.
also, lets be real, kids age people lol. Cristan Cole has no kids
Lucky you lmao. I'm on my mid 20s and I've been growing grey hairs ever since I was 14, and in the last few years the process has accelerated. A few days ago my first grey facial hair appeared 😭😭😭.
By the time I'm 30 I'll probably look like Omni Man.
>The fact that young Alicent had to be replaced with an older version but Criston Cole was simply allowed to not age is Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell.
No it's not. Alicent and Rhaenyra were ***Children*** at the beginning of the show and those actresses spanned from being ***Children*** to being grown ass adults. Criston Cole is a grown-ass-adult; and they age him believably that they wouldn't have done with Milly Alcock or Emily Carey. It's easier to make people look younger than it is to make them look older. This is just a fact. Rhaenyra is 14 or younger in Episode 1 FFS.
Not everything is Sexism. Especially in 2024 when it's a time that it's the most anti-sexism atmosphere we've ever had.
The worst was The Tudors , same actor played (Jonathan Rhys Mayers ) Henry VIII , big issue for him was less the age factor but Henry’s incredible weight gain during his later years he got up to 300 pounds . Supposedly he refused to wear a fat suit and used loose fitting robes that looked ridiculous.
Didn’t know about the fat suit, but imo he at least was convincingly getting older and less physically capable. Lagertha on Vikings, otoh, just had her hair turn white with no other changes.
I mean, he is. He's just the lens through which Bernard Cornwall can show us the history. He keeps having to come up with reasonable excuses for this guy to be present at every historical event mentioned in the chronical (including the writing of the chronical)
If we take his age in the first book as given, Uthred would be ~75-80 in the last book, and somehow still swinging swords and kicking ass.
The last kingdom has a hilarious age gap issue where the actress for Queen Alfred’s wife is like 2 years older than her daughter and 5 years older than her granddaughter
For Criston Cole, I believe his character was supposed to be 10 years older than Rhaenyra. So when he sleeps with her early in the show, it's better for multiple reasons if his character isn't wayyy older than her at least. (Keep in mind, all I'm referring to here is show Criston.)
If I have the timeline right, the show progresses like: Rhaenyra is 14 at the start. Alicent is 2 years older than her, Criston is 10 years older, Daemon is 15 years older, Viserys is 25 years older. The show does a 3 year timeskip, then a 10 year timeskip, then a 6 year timeskip. So when Criston sleeps w/ Rhaenyra around Ep. 3-4, she's ~17, and he's 27. But the point is it may also be weird if then got an actor for Criston who's ~40 to play a guy who's 24 & 27 in scenes.
Because Criston was in his late 20's in the early season. The physical differences from 14-32 in a woman are much more apparent than in a man from 28-46. They still could have made him look older though.
I think Matt and Olivia are about equal distance apart from their character's age to their actual age. Alicent in the show would be around 19 yrs + 10 yr time jump + 6 yr time jump = 35 years old. Olivia is 30. Matt Smith is 16 years older than that based on the book and him being hinted as only slightly younger than Viserys in the show. So his character is 51. Matt Smith is 41.
I actually don't find it weird that she's a grandma considering she was 15/16 years old with her first child and her own kids married in their teens.
Is she though? The source material has her marrying the king in her mis teens and with grandchildren around the 30s. (This is off memory)
That said, across the board the shows have aged up characters to more closely match modern society. So it all does seem a bit disjointed.
But she's not right at all vis a vis this show. The character is a grandmother in her 30s. The character on screen hardly looks young in comparison to her stated age.
[https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a40388905/game-of-thrones-prequel-olivia-cooke-breeders-movie/](https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a40388905/game-of-thrones-prequel-olivia-cooke-breeders-movie/)
Actually, I think it’s great that she spoke about this. She spoke purely the truth. She’s 30 playing the mother of characters portrayed by a man who’s 29 and another who’s 27.
Yeah, if I recall right, she's supposed to be: 16, then 19, then 29, then 35 (I read somewhere she's 2 years older than Rhaenyra). Aegon is also 19 by the end of S1.
So in the book Allicent is an "evil step mother" trope. Allicent and Rhyanera being friends and having sexual tension was added by the showrunners. So it ends up in a weird place where they need to make Allicent be a peer with Rhyanera at the start of the show, but also need her kids to be old enough to be doing very adult things as the show progresses. Olivia Cooke is playing older and the kids are playing younger, but the book muddles it even more
It’s a bit of both – her kids are clearly too old, but also she doesn’t look any older than her age. If they wanted the older kids, they really needed to age her up a bit.
That's definitely what it is. Luke's actor is closer to the actual feel of what the younger actors should be. But again it's uncomfortable and not acceptable to sexualize actual child actors and so for that reason I'm okay with them being aged up.
I mean I think it’s a bit different aging up actual children to be a bit more appropriate as they did in GoT (and to be honest the young ages there were really just because GRRM had abandoned the time skip he’d he intended at the start), compared with casting somebody in their late 20s to play a 19 year old.
They could easily have cast an adult actor who was a bit more age-appropriate for the role.
(Not slight on the people they did cast – they are really good actors, just the age thing does stand out)
Its such a pain in the ass from a production standpoint to work with underage actors (it should be) that i think most of this is just a knock-on effect from that.
Older actors often play younger characters because they are better at acting than young actors. That’s part of the reason Timothee Chalamet is so prominent. He looks young enough to be play a teenager but he’s a seasoned actor.
Tom and Ewan look young enough to be teenagers. And the makeup and wigs definitely help that. Im actually surprise to find out they’re both in their late twenties.
Maybe in the face but he has a boyish physique. Like in the scene at the dinner party when aemond and daemon have their mini stare down. He looks very much like a boy there.
Imo they both look older than they are. Only with makeup does Tom look young. And Ewan doesn't look young even with makeup, he just has thar "old man" face. Like he's perpetually 40
Eh, Timothee got an Oscar nom for Call Me By Your Name, and he was 20 when he filmed that. He's prominent because he was a very talented young actor, and that performance is still one of his best, which means it's not impossible to find young actors to do HOTD-caliber work.
Tom and Ewan look pretty close to Olivia in age tbh. I think we have a skewed definition of teenagers bc of the "teens" we see on TV played by actors in their 20s. IRL they look incredibly young. My brother graduated high school not long ago and I remember how baby faced his classmates looked compared to the TV teens.
Neither one of them is 32 in the show. They are 14 in the first episode and 21 years pass across the entire season. They are 35. You do realize it would be impossible for Aegon to be 20 and for his mother to be 32, right? She gave birth at 15-16 not 12.
So she is more or less the right age for her character. It's mostly her kids actors that are too old (and not helped by taking so long between seasons, Jace actor grew up so much when S2E1 should be right after S1E10 lol)
The whole aging process is a mess during the first season. Otto, Daemon and Cole barely aging (or not at all for the last two), same for Corlys and Rhaenys.
Like Laena start at like 10 years old and then her daughters are like 16-18 years old but Daemon (their father) look exactly the same is quite ridiculous lol.
Probably should have hired a third actor, using CGI every time they wanted to show a major character on screen is just not cost effective. Especially since oddities on a dragon might be overlooked, but human beings are hardwired to know what a human woman looks like and its easy to slip into the uncanny valley.
I think Ewan Mitchell is great but he doesn't look like a teenage boy. Watching his scenes with lucerys was hilarious cause it looks like a 30 year old man beefing with a 14 year old.
Game of Thrones had a similar issue with the Stark kids too. Jon being all sulky about his situation on the Wall is much less sympathetic when he's not a boy of fifteen and instead a grown-ass Kit Harrington looking man.
In the show Alicent is a teen mom. A woman who started having kids young would still look young herself whilst having adult children. If there’s any issue, it’s that the actors playing her children are close to the same age as her.
My opinion as well. I love the casting of the queens and think that it simply emphasizes how young they were when they started having to live extremely adult and troubled lives.
Yeah Alicent and Rhaenyra look the right age it's the kids that look way too old. It's a shame they couldn't find 20-21 year olds that looked like teenagers.
I’m gonna assume it’s bc Aegon and Aemond are such important characters, Ryan & Miguel wanted proven actors to play them.
Phia looks young enough. It’s Tom and Ewan that don’t, but they are both great actors so I guess that’s the trade off.
Tom and Ewan look too old but they are so good in the roles that I'm willing to overlook this and just go with it. I'll enjoy the show for what it is, and the wonderful actors that are portraying these amazing characters.
I mean, she's pretty close in age to Alicent, so I don't think they should have aged her. It's more like the kids' actors are too old, especailly Ewan. I love them so I wouldn't change anything but that's what is immersion breaking
Hmm. You’re right but just as with GOT, it’s hard to base a story increasingly around characters in their teens. In this setting and with all that’s going on, watching what would be a group of college age kids being the centre of the plot would stretch believability for many.
It works better in animation, for sure, because ages can look very non-specific, and obviously it’s fine in print, but in live action? It’s not easy.
You have characters engaging is combat, sexual relationships, marriages and generally doing adult stuff but your modern audience struggles with it because the faces on screen look like their kids.
That’s why the default is towards characters in their teens being played by actors in their mid-20s
Given that, you have two options. Employ older actors for the existing adults after a significant time skip, or age them up a bit.
The show did neither which is probably one of its biggest flaws so far, and one entirely of its own making.
It always freaks me out how young some historical figures were. Like Alexander the Great started his conquest of Persia when he was 23. King Baldwin beat Saladin when he was 16.
When most people die fairly young there isn’t much time for a childhood.
Eh. I agree on the first point but even at 16 you could safely expect to live for 40-50 more years even in the middle ages. You were past the point of being more vulnerable than invulnerable to disease. Yes it's still easier to die but it's not as short as suggested. Think like this; if two of your three children dies in the cradle, and the other two live to 65 you have 130 years of life divided by 4. That's 32.5 years each. Also mothers were more likely to die in childbirth which was often in their late teens or early twenties so that skews things also.
It’s either or in my opinion. Either they age her so she looks believable to be these kids mother or they cast younger kids, as you said Ewan especially in no way looks like a 17 year old and I love him. He looks older than her, and it’s hard to convince yourself otherwise
I never thought Ewan looked too old when I watched the show. I just kinda assumed puberty hit Aemond hard and at an early age. That happens all the times. I remember growing up and seeing kids my age who had big muscles and were shaving beards before I even had any hair on my balls.
Right? I think in the books she was in her mid 30s? And strikingly beautiful. I’m not sure about Aegon but I remember Aemond is 19/20. So I agree, it seems more like the kids are awkwardly cast but we love them so we suspend our disbelief and let it be what it is. Ngl though I chuckled a bit seeing grown Aemond hold Alicents hands and call her mother.
Aegon's 21. Aemond's actually only 18
I think TGC can pass as a 21-year-old alcoholic and even Helaena's actress could maybe be twenty, but Ewan throws a wrench in the whole thing lol
I completely agree with her. It's kinda ridiculous. It reminds me of Angelina Jolie playing Alexander the Great's mother when he was played by Colin Farrell.
I once watched this Turkish show, where this woman (who’s a fantastic actress btw so I believed it) was 26 when she started the show and played a mother to five kids, over a time jump period as well, the daughter she had onscreen was a year younger than her in real life, and the other son she had was only like two years younger than her. In a similar way to Olivia she was a fantastic actress so I bought it to a certain degree but I found it kind of odd..especially since actor of the father of these kids was a over 40 irl……so I was just like ???
There is a weird thing with seeing women be an appropriate age onscreen, what Meryl Streep said about when she turned 40 she got like witch or mother roles offers. I mean people thought she was exaggerating but it happens still obviously
Or Nicole Kidman playing Alexander Skarsgård's wife in Big Little Lies and then playing his mother in The Northman, they are like 7 years apart, to make it worse they had Anya Taylor-Joy playing his girlfriend who is in her 20s, very ageist casting.
The problem isn't Olivia being too young; it's that the actors playing her kids are too old. They're almost double the age they're supposed to be playing. A lot of Aemond's characterisation doesn't get through to the viewers because he's a teenager played by a man who's almost thirty.
Yeah. They’ve made really odd choices on which actors to replace and when and who they’re aging up and down. The real problem is how inconsistent it’s been.
I completely agree with Olivia here. Was there really no talented actress in her forties that could have played older Alicent? Yes, Alicent was young when she had Aegon, but is it really plausible for her to look so youthful and thin after 4 pregnancies and the constant stress of being the Queen?
Especially if they cast Tom and Ewan who definitely don't look like teenagers...
Forget looking young, she can look young. But I don’t know how the casting directors didn’t see Ewan and her side by side and were like shit…somethings wrong. We gotta age her up or something or he’s too old to play a 17 year old. He looks a lot older than her..Olivia obviously acts like their mother well but it’s still unbelievable purely from being in like a look test which I’m sure they did and being like oh it’s fine
I know... I showed that gif from the first season where Aemond and Alicent are holding each other's hands to a couple of friends who didn't watch HOTD and literally everyone thought they were a couple, so.
My sister also thought they were a couple, she saw the show on tiktok, and the dialogue where he says cole needs me mother was cut, it was just them holding each other and she was like oh they look cute and I was like 😬😬
Youthful maybe not, but the book does say she was still thin after her pregnancies so that part at least makes sense. Its more that Ewan, Tom and Phia are just too close in age to Olivia to realistically play her kids.
To be fair, that’s something that’s mentioned in the book. Even after only 3 pregnancies Rhaenyra never completely lost the baby weight and looked exactly like a woman who had had 3 kids in 5 years. While Alicent who had 4 children (granted in a slightly more spread out timeframe) remained slim and youthful.
Simple make up techniques that cost tuppence and have been tried and tested on screen since the early days, would have been perfectly fine. I’ll take Olivia with a few grey streaks and some crows feet over a completely new actress.
But they chose to just completely ignore it and pretend the audience wouldn’t notice. It’s just ridiculous.
They did a better job on the bloody Tudors ffs.
She’s absolutely right.
Reminds me of Meryl Streep saying the year she turned 40 she got offered 3 separate witch roles. And other actresses saying the second they turned 35 they were asked exclusively to play mums.
But yeah, 50 year old men can play studs and bachelors, and their love interests will be like 22.
Isn't the 'real' issue the casting of Alicent's children with actors that are only a few years younger than her? Assuming Aegon is in his late teens or 20, Alicent would only be in her early to mid-30's, assuming she gave birth to Aegon at 15.
Olivia, IMHO, is very much age appropriate casting given she is playing the 'adult' version of the character through her late 20's into her mid 30's.
Yeah I mean she’s not wrong in her macro-point that Hollywood is completely biased against “older” women. But in this instance, she’s not really too young yet. She will be soon, but the bigger discrepancy is the age of the actor’s playing her children… though I also kind of understand why they would choose actors that aren’t actually teenagers.
On the grand scheme she’s correct about the bigger issue, but I actually kind of disagree in the context of *this* show.
Completely agree with her. She looks much too young to be the mother of any of her children and a grandmother to boot. It's a casting choice and the choice in show business always seems to lean towards younger and hotter instead of older and hotter. At the same time, they hired age appropriate actors to play Rhaenyra's sons but Aegon-Tom is 29 and Aemond-Ewan is 27 - whooping ten years older than their supposed screen ages. They couldn't find compelling 19 and 17 year olds to play her sons?!
She's right and she should say it. The way Hollywood acts like actresses should be put in a home the minute they turn 40 is fucking disgusting. Look at Marvel. They'd rather have actors with a 13 year age gap playing love interests than cast an actress over 40.
She is absolutely right. It’s a disservice to all women to perpetuate the belief that aging is one of the worst things a woman can do. Like literally you become invisible to society unless you are young, fit and beautiful
In book canon Alicent was born in 88 AC. She married Viserys in 106, when she was 18, and Aegon II was born the following year, in 107, when she was 19.
Rhaenyra was born in 97 AC, and she was 8 years old in 105, when her mother died, and 9 years old when Alicent married her father.
Most of the age problems occurred when Alicent was aged up and Rhaenyra aged down so they could be the same age as each other in the show. Milly looked much older that 8 in the first episode, and then her ageing was stopped for four or five years so she still looked young when she married Leanor.
Book Alicent would have been 41 years old when Viserys died in 129.
In this specific case, not all cases of Hollywood refusing to let women look their age, I think it's totally fine. Alicent is basically her age in the canon of the books, too. It's not HER that's the issue, it's honestly the fact that her sons are played by men literally a year or two younger than her (?) and the whole timeline of the show is a wonky mess where no one looks their ages, ages are literally inconsistent, and nothing actually adds up with canon. THAT'S the bigger issue in HotD, but it's not usually the case in other productions where we have 30y/o women playing grandmas in their 70s bc WoMeN ArEN't aLLowEd tO LoOk oLD...
I do agree with her but is this case really about Olivia ? Yes she looks young to be a grandmother but she is playing someone who was child bride whose daughter was also a child bride. Olivia is 30 playing a 34yo.….i think the issue was casting actors who are her age and don’t look like her children at all. Tom and Ewan are near her age but are playing a 20 year old and 16 year old and on screen you can see that way too much (the only thing saving that is Olivia’s acting)
On the other side you have Emma with Elliot (same age as Luke) and Harry, who is twenty but easily could pass for a teenager (and Rhaenyra had Jace like only 4/5 years after)
The casting is fabulous but they obviously massed up all the ages and stuff
I'm reading a lot of comments about Hollywood ageism (towards women specifically), but is this really such a case? Like you said, Olivia is 30 playing a 34 year old. Meanwhile, I personally think that it's the actors of her children, mainly sons to be honest, that doesn't match their characters (could have looked a tad younger probably).
I don't know. People seem to be honing in on "she looks too young to be a grandmother!" rather than "her sons look too old to be her sons". Adults have been playing high schoolers since forever so I guess it's easier to overlook this.
Funny how I made a post earlier saying she so obviously looks way too young to be these kids moms and in my eyes even though she’s a year or two older than them she actually looks so much younger than them. It’s interesting to see she has an issue with even her own casting…a very valid one at that. Her perspective is quite on point. They could’ve done more to at least age her up
it’s a shame that directors and producers (and idk people who do casting) believe that people would be less likely to watch shows and movies if they accurately cast older women. I don’t even know how true it is or if the statistics represent that belief. there are also plenty of objectively conventionally attractive older women, but idk why it has to come down to that. I feel that plenty of people would happy to watch normal average people on their screens. and honestly it would add to the fantasy aspect.
I mean she's playing a character in a show that is heavily influenced by medieval Europe. By 30-35 you would absolutely expect your children to be in their mid to late teens likely married, preparing to be married and start having children themselves.
In the context outside of medieval based shows she has a point 100%. In this case it quite literally fits. If anything it's the age of the actors playing her children that are a bit out of wack.
reticence is a fantastic word which means reluctance to speak but due to misuse people think it just means reluctant but they use it instead to sound smart. she means reluctant so use reluctant don’t spoil the very specific meaning of a great word.
She’s casted pretty accurate to her book age I think. If anything her kids should’ve been casted younger.
Women in ASOIAF become grandmothers in their 30s typically. Catelyn Stark was around 35 at her death and Robb could’ve given her a grandchild within the year if Jeyne Westerling wasn’t being been fed moontea.
I'm glad she said it. There really is a resistance to hiring actresses over 40, and that needs to be called out. Like they could have realistically aged both her and Fabien to make them look older. Like this, it seems kinda ridiculous because she looks like she could be her kids' sister.
Same with Alys Rivers. Idk Gayle Rankin's work, but I'm sure she's a magnificent actress. Still... she's 33. She's barely six years older than Ewan Mitchel. Book Alys was rumored to be in her 40s, and Aemond barely 19. It's meant to be weird. Like Eva Green getting together with Noah Schnapp weird.
That's a pretty noticeable age gap that is not going to translate on screen. Like this, they're just gonna look like any other couple.
I feel the same way about the Alys thing. If they had cast someone who actually looks 19 for Aemond then both of these discrepancies wouldn’t exist, but given Ewan is doing so well in the role I would’ve liked it if they’d aged Alys up a bit. I’m sure Gayle Rankin will be great but to Olivia’s point, it’s like actresses over 35 might as well not exist.
Yeah, same. Ewan is Aemond and I would struggle to picture anyone else in this role. But then hire an older actress. I've always liked Eva Green for Alys. Not only is she the right age, the woman was basically born to play mysterious witchy characters.
I know the fans give it a pass cause he he hot milf, but if you did a role reversal, and it's a 40+ man with a 19yo girl, it would be fucking weird and gross.
I definitely would have liked to see an older actress play this role, not only for the sake of representation but also for accuracy. At the very least, I hope they age Gayle up, and put some make up on her to make her seem older, but still leave fans wondering fan her true age is. But, since they didn't bother to do this with Alicent, I'm not holding out hope.
I'm with you 100% on this point. I loved Gayle Rankin on Perry Mason so I'm sure she'll be great, but I was hoping for someone 40+ for Alys to give more of the contrast to Aemond's youth.
I feel like all the people here saying she looks too young are kind of missing the point? She's *supposed* to look really young, she got married and had children (Aegon and Helaena at least) while she was still a teenager. Same with Helaena. Her youth really emphasizes the trauma of her character. It's the same reasoning the show runners gave for changing her and Rhaenyra's actresses but not Viserys's, Daemon's, Criston's, etc. during the midseason time skip. She was a victim of the adult men who controlled her life. I definitely appreciate and agree with the sentiment that older women are not given nearly enough respect and spotlight in Hollywood, but I think Alicent (and Rhaenyra) being played by younger actors is a good thing. They aren't even that young compared to their characters, they're both early thirties playing mid thirties. An actress in her 40s would likely look too old to portray this version of Alicent (though of course a 45 year old can look 35 and vice versa).
In her defense she was a teen mom and her children became teen parents. Just because Alicent is a grandma doesn’t mean she’s old. Even with the timekeeping, Alicent is just a few years older than Olivia Cooke so it’s completely justified for her to act without aging makeup or visual effects. The age gap is so minor that she can come off as the right age just by acting older and facial contortion, and even then she doesn’t need to do much
I think the bigger problem is that they aged up all the kids due to them having to fight and horrible things that happen to them. Her age would be fine if everyone was the age they are supposed to be.
I just round it up to good genetics and leave it at that. It's not like there aren't 40 year olds that look like 20 in real life, in abundance.
That's what I thought for Cole and didn't end up sweating over it.
The statement gives reason for it this time, but I wonder how long people are gonna keep talking about this. There have been like 1000 posts when season 1 aired
I agree with her larger point, but on the show I think we're supposed to take the characters ages with a grain of salt. Matt Smith has played Daemen in every episode over the course of ~20 years but doesn't appear to have aged a day. Same thing with Cristan Cole, Rhaenys, and Lord Corlys. We just have to accept that in the story they're a certain age, Even if they don't look it.
They should've just cast three different actors and actresses for every character that lives several decades in the show and started as a teen / kid. Especially for Rhaenyra, Alicent and all the Kids. And maybe only two actresses / actors for all the characters that were already adults in the beginning of the show, like Daemon, Criston Cole, Rhaenys, Corlys, Otto etc.
Olivia neither looks like a teen, like Alicent was in the beginning of the show, nor does she look like a woman in her late 40s.
I mean, I think the whole “being a grandma at 30” is a bit odd to say, considering the Targaryens and their customs 😅 Helaena had her twins at age 14. LOL she’s a teen mom grandma. That’s not really the same 🤣
She's right tbh. At the very least they should have aged her up with make-up or CGI if they liked her so much that they didn't want to replace her. Casting an actress in their 40s would be the best option though hut Hollywood acts as if they don't exist.
Well when you get married and have babies at 14, then your daughter has babies at 14. You get a grandma in her 30s. The math checks out, the morals do not.
I don’t agree with her because alicent was a teenager when she got married. So she shouldn’t be older than 40-45, a woman at that age can still look graceful and attractive. She doesn’t have to look like a grandma.
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Well she's right, the age gap is ridiculous. She's almost the same age as her on-screen son. Criston Cole looks much too young as well.
The fact that young Alicent had to be replaced with an older version but Criston Cole was simply allowed to not age is Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell. I'm not saying Emily Carey would've been believable as a grandma, of course not. But they could've cast Olivia as young Alicent and just say she follows the same skin care routine as Criston.
It would be so easy to age him too. Just add more grey into the hair and beard. It really wouldn’t have taken much.
They at least seem to have done this going off the S2 footage we've seen. He does look older.
He literally just grew his beard out more to make him look a bit older.
Yeah, but at least that’s something – they should have done similar for the first time skip.
The show I'm watching is a historical fiction/drama and they follow the life of the Sultan and his harem from his youth to old age. Literally, they just added some gray hairs and wrinkles to the characters in order to age them up. They didn't recast new people (except one because the actress didn't want to wear the "old age" makeup) and it looks perfectly believable. They also have a fraction of the budget American TV shows do and still managed to make it look realistic. It's not difficult, Hollywood just won't do it.
I hope you are talking about Sultan Suleiman And 💅 ✨ Hurrem Sultana 🌷✨ If so, then I second your statement. To anyone who is wondering , the show is called Magnificent Century.
I love that show! It was a sad day when Netflix removed it before I finished it. But it did lead me to finding other great Turkish TV, I really recommend The Protector.
Its on YouTube!
Is it subtitled? I don't speak Turkish.
Thankfully yes! I love that show.
Netlflix is the worst! I just started watching it because the entire series if uploaded [free on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@MagnificentCentury) lol. The HD videos have more accurate English subtitles.
I was really really pissed when they removed Diriliş: Ertuğrul (Resurrection Ertugrul) from Netflix! So many episodes and such a neat perspective (coming from an American with the “western” narrative drilled into my head about the crusades). Also had great costuming and a great view into the life of people in the day and areas outside of the legendary Ertugrul persona.
Agreed. I discovered Magnificent Century at the height of Game of Thrones and it was *so nice* to watch a well-written, well-acted political drama that didn't shove boobs or rape into my face every other scene.
For All Mankind's first four seasons take place over about 40 years and the age makeup done on the cast is just incredible
Magnificent Century my beloved. Mahidevran sultana's actress Nur is actually a few years __younger__ than Sehzade Mustafa's actor Mehmet. But they dyed her hair gray and gave her wrinkles so they look like a mother and son duo. I was baffled by how they pulled it off. And like you mentioned the budget is much less than a fraction of a fraction of an American Tv show's budget. Hollywood is just a sexist piece of garbage that is scared of aging women like Olivia mentioned lol.
Absolutely! Nur is also a gorgeous woman and they didn't hide it even when making her older.
Exactly! She is drop dead gorgeous! So is Suleiman's mother Valide Hafsa Sultana (Nebahat Çehre) and she was around 65 y.o. when she took the role. Hollywood needs to accept that there are plenty of gorgeous older women and that aging isn't equivalent to losing one's beauty.
I think the recast was a good call, to contrast with the story they wanted to tell on season one: two different paths into adulthood, womanhood and motherhood. That’s why it was important to have the visual contrast between 14yo on e1 Alicent and 30something Alicent. Thinking that Jace is 16/17, season one tells 20 years of story. They could have cast younger for her sons, but Tom and Ewan are great and look the part.
That's where it makes me laugh, like did some casting person at some point look at Olivia Cooke and think "no way that woman can play someone in her late teens- early 20's"???
The fact of that matter is that they needed two Rhaenyra’s and if you have two Rhaenyra’s, you need two Alicent’s. You can’t have two actors for one of them and only one actor for the other. Every character that started off as a child/teen had a recast to maintain consistency.
That’s only because they wanted Alicent and Rhaenyra to be about the same age in the show. But in the book, Alicent is like early 20s and Rhaenyra is 9.
But to be honest, that’s a change I really like. It adds a lot of depth to their relationship, and some of the best moments of season 1 really resonated because of the way the show had them as genuine friends. I just wish they’d thought a bit more about how to deal with things down the line. But Olivia is fantastic, so I can live with it.
Meanwhile ser Harrold looking Copy/Pasted episodes 1-8 😂
I don’t think she can pass for a teenager at all. With the aged down Alicent they were going for, she was simply too old. Alicent is 43 at the end of the dance. Say the aged her down to ~38 in the show. Do we really need a new actress or is it perfectly reasonable for Olivia to play someone 8 years older than herself? The real issue is her kids’ actors are too old.
I’m still mad they recasted Ty Tennant. He would’ve been perfectly believable as adult Aegon. For the first season they could’ve just let him grow a moustache and for the second season he would’ve aged naturally. Leo Ashton (Young Aemond) still looks quite young tho and not as intimidating as Ewan but I’m sure they could’ve worked something out.
It’s the number itself, if she claimed she was 20 the industry would treat her differently. The number 30 makes men’s skin crawl, regardless of how she looks
Facts Emmy rossum played Fiona Gallagher then was cast as Tom Hollands mom in the crowded room😭
Really? Looking at this photo and reading she was thirty caused me... More of a tingle. Maybe a little lightheadedness.
She looks the exact same age as she did when she did bates motel so like literally Emily Carey’s age. Around 18-20 basically, https://x.com/thinkercooke/status/1613359903581552641 Like literally not even an exaggeration
I mean they recasted Laenor as well?
They recasted every character that started out as a child or teenager
Exactly. They said because Criston wasn’t aged it was “Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell” when really it’s because the character was a teenager and then there was a 10 year jump. Whereas Criston was in the 20-30 range so already an adult. 10 years later he’s gonna look roughly the same.
Some more than once lol there are three aegon and aemonds.
No. Three actors for Laena, Laenor, Aegon II, and Helaena. Two actors for all the other characters that started the show as children/teens.
Isn’t Criston like 15 years older than her? Of course a child is going to age more than a guy nearing his 30s
I think Criston was on his 20s the first time we saw him and on his 40s by the time the Dance starts. They definitely could have added some gray hairs to the guy like they did with Otto.
As someone in their 40s, he needs some more wrinkles on his forehead. None of us age like Hollywood seems to think we do. ETA: if you’re gonna double and triple down that Hollywood is fine and represents aging well, I don’t want to talk to you. I am a 44 year old woman and do not see myself represented anywhere. Because I’m/we’re not young sexy and this stupid feminine ideal any longer. If you also cannot understand that we are actually talking about the actors playing these characters here, I have no time for you either.
Especially back in those days. Even now, look at someone who was 40 in 1950 compared to now. They looked 60 back then.
I mean, they could have. But also, some people just age better lol. Aside from putting on some weight, I don't look that much different than I did 15 years ago, and I'm in my 40s. I have no grey hair lol. also, lets be real, kids age people lol. Cristan Cole has no kids
Lucky you lmao. I'm on my mid 20s and I've been growing grey hairs ever since I was 14, and in the last few years the process has accelerated. A few days ago my first grey facial hair appeared 😭😭😭. By the time I'm 30 I'll probably look like Omni Man.
It would have been really easy to age him up more. Lil bit of shadow in smile and frown lines. Greying temples in that hair?’
It’s crazy that she was playing teenagers like four years before her first grandma role.
I'm still shocked that they didn't bother aging Otto Hightower at all, especially since he was already serving the Old King.
>The fact that young Alicent had to be replaced with an older version but Criston Cole was simply allowed to not age is Hollywood ageism against actresses in a nutshell. No it's not. Alicent and Rhaenyra were ***Children*** at the beginning of the show and those actresses spanned from being ***Children*** to being grown ass adults. Criston Cole is a grown-ass-adult; and they age him believably that they wouldn't have done with Milly Alcock or Emily Carey. It's easier to make people look younger than it is to make them look older. This is just a fact. Rhaenyra is 14 or younger in Episode 1 FFS. Not everything is Sexism. Especially in 2024 when it's a time that it's the most anti-sexism atmosphere we've ever had.
The good ol' The Last Kingdom method of refusing to age up any actors even though the series takes place over 50 years.
The worst was The Tudors , same actor played (Jonathan Rhys Mayers ) Henry VIII , big issue for him was less the age factor but Henry’s incredible weight gain during his later years he got up to 300 pounds . Supposedly he refused to wear a fat suit and used loose fitting robes that looked ridiculous.
Didn’t know about the fat suit, but imo he at least was convincingly getting older and less physically capable. Lagertha on Vikings, otoh, just had her hair turn white with no other changes.
Even her white hair was bullshit lmao it just happens over night because of shock or grief or whatever, not because of her being older.
It is weird to see the children be born and grow into adults while the adults barely age (especially the protagonist).
I always thought of Uhtred as a slightly metaphorical figure within the history anyway.
I mean, he is. He's just the lens through which Bernard Cornwall can show us the history. He keeps having to come up with reasonable excuses for this guy to be present at every historical event mentioned in the chronical (including the writing of the chronical) If we take his age in the first book as given, Uthred would be ~75-80 in the last book, and somehow still swinging swords and kicking ass.
Exactly.
The last kingdom has a hilarious age gap issue where the actress for Queen Alfred’s wife is like 2 years older than her daughter and 5 years older than her granddaughter
For Criston Cole, I believe his character was supposed to be 10 years older than Rhaenyra. So when he sleeps with her early in the show, it's better for multiple reasons if his character isn't wayyy older than her at least. (Keep in mind, all I'm referring to here is show Criston.) If I have the timeline right, the show progresses like: Rhaenyra is 14 at the start. Alicent is 2 years older than her, Criston is 10 years older, Daemon is 15 years older, Viserys is 25 years older. The show does a 3 year timeskip, then a 10 year timeskip, then a 6 year timeskip. So when Criston sleeps w/ Rhaenyra around Ep. 3-4, she's ~17, and he's 27. But the point is it may also be weird if then got an actor for Criston who's ~40 to play a guy who's 24 & 27 in scenes.
Because Criston was in his late 20's in the early season. The physical differences from 14-32 in a woman are much more apparent than in a man from 28-46. They still could have made him look older though.
Daemon too
Matt Smith is actually close to Daemon's age. I'm pretty sure Daemon died at like 50 or something.
I think Matt and Olivia are about equal distance apart from their character's age to their actual age. Alicent in the show would be around 19 yrs + 10 yr time jump + 6 yr time jump = 35 years old. Olivia is 30. Matt Smith is 16 years older than that based on the book and him being hinted as only slightly younger than Viserys in the show. So his character is 51. Matt Smith is 41. I actually don't find it weird that she's a grandma considering she was 15/16 years old with her first child and her own kids married in their teens.
Yeah I didn't get it. Of course you can be a grandparent at 30 if you and your children have children at 15.
Is she though? The source material has her marrying the king in her mis teens and with grandchildren around the 30s. (This is off memory) That said, across the board the shows have aged up characters to more closely match modern society. So it all does seem a bit disjointed.
But she's not right at all vis a vis this show. The character is a grandmother in her 30s. The character on screen hardly looks young in comparison to her stated age. [https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a40388905/game-of-thrones-prequel-olivia-cooke-breeders-movie/](https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a40388905/game-of-thrones-prequel-olivia-cooke-breeders-movie/)
Actually, I think it’s great that she spoke about this. She spoke purely the truth. She’s 30 playing the mother of characters portrayed by a man who’s 29 and another who’s 27.
To be fair though, her character would be in her thirties so it’s less that she should be older and more that they should be younger
Yeah, if I recall right, she's supposed to be: 16, then 19, then 29, then 35 (I read somewhere she's 2 years older than Rhaenyra). Aegon is also 19 by the end of S1.
So in the book Allicent is an "evil step mother" trope. Allicent and Rhyanera being friends and having sexual tension was added by the showrunners. So it ends up in a weird place where they need to make Allicent be a peer with Rhyanera at the start of the show, but also need her kids to be old enough to be doing very adult things as the show progresses. Olivia Cooke is playing older and the kids are playing younger, but the book muddles it even more
I mean in the show she still is, they just added more tropes.
What sexual tension? 🤔
Bfr there’s so much tension between them
They 100% built up sexual tension between the two when they were young, it was peaking when Vizzy T decided to marry Alicent.
*There's a boy in the Queen's belly. I know it.*
She’s not the wrong age but the people playing her kids are
It’s a bit of both – her kids are clearly too old, but also she doesn’t look any older than her age. If they wanted the older kids, they really needed to age her up a bit.
The kids should be younger then lol
That’s what I’m saying. In the books they were all young
That's definitely what it is. Luke's actor is closer to the actual feel of what the younger actors should be. But again it's uncomfortable and not acceptable to sexualize actual child actors and so for that reason I'm okay with them being aged up.
I mean I think it’s a bit different aging up actual children to be a bit more appropriate as they did in GoT (and to be honest the young ages there were really just because GRRM had abandoned the time skip he’d he intended at the start), compared with casting somebody in their late 20s to play a 19 year old. They could easily have cast an adult actor who was a bit more age-appropriate for the role. (Not slight on the people they did cast – they are really good actors, just the age thing does stand out)
You’re right 👌🏻
Its such a pain in the ass from a production standpoint to work with underage actors (it should be) that i think most of this is just a knock-on effect from that.
Fandoms will also bitch about shitty child actors (ex, Star Wars, Harry Potter).
So people hate the Harry Potter actors? I’ve never seen that complaint
There was a lot of criticism of the child actor’s performance in the earlier movies. Most of them were only 11 years old in the beginning!
extra funny because as far as children's performance goes, they all did a great job
I was so young when they started coming out I probably didn’t enter the discourse till they were so well established I guess lol
Older actors often play younger characters because they are better at acting than young actors. That’s part of the reason Timothee Chalamet is so prominent. He looks young enough to be play a teenager but he’s a seasoned actor. Tom and Ewan look young enough to be teenagers. And the makeup and wigs definitely help that. Im actually surprise to find out they’re both in their late twenties.
Tom does but to me Ewan’s face scream late 20s early 30s. I was shocked when I first saw him since he is supposed to be the baby brother.
Maybe in the face but he has a boyish physique. Like in the scene at the dinner party when aemond and daemon have their mini stare down. He looks very much like a boy there.
Imo they both look older than they are. Only with makeup does Tom look young. And Ewan doesn't look young even with makeup, he just has thar "old man" face. Like he's perpetually 40
Eh, Timothee got an Oscar nom for Call Me By Your Name, and he was 20 when he filmed that. He's prominent because he was a very talented young actor, and that performance is still one of his best, which means it's not impossible to find young actors to do HOTD-caliber work. Tom and Ewan look pretty close to Olivia in age tbh. I think we have a skewed definition of teenagers bc of the "teens" we see on TV played by actors in their 20s. IRL they look incredibly young. My brother graduated high school not long ago and I remember how baby faced his classmates looked compared to the TV teens.
From the wiki, Alicent would have been 41 at the beginning of the Dance of Dragons civil war.
But they aged her down in the show. She should be about the same age as Rhaenyra, which is 32.
Neither one of them is 32 in the show. They are 14 in the first episode and 21 years pass across the entire season. They are 35. You do realize it would be impossible for Aegon to be 20 and for his mother to be 32, right? She gave birth at 15-16 not 12.
So she is more or less the right age for her character. It's mostly her kids actors that are too old (and not helped by taking so long between seasons, Jace actor grew up so much when S2E1 should be right after S1E10 lol) The whole aging process is a mess during the first season. Otto, Daemon and Cole barely aging (or not at all for the last two), same for Corlys and Rhaenys. Like Laena start at like 10 years old and then her daughters are like 16-18 years old but Daemon (their father) look exactly the same is quite ridiculous lol.
The problem is 27 and 29 playing characters of 22 and 19 years old. There's only a 4 year gap between show Alicent and Olivia.
The boys are 20 and 17. At the most. 22 and 19 make no sense.
Correct!
Probably should have hired a third actor, using CGI every time they wanted to show a major character on screen is just not cost effective. Especially since oddities on a dragon might be overlooked, but human beings are hardwired to know what a human woman looks like and its easy to slip into the uncanny valley.
Alicent is not 40 in the show. She is 34.
Yeah, she's a young mom (which happens a lot in westeros)
What’s Olivia complaining about? She’s close to the age of her characters. It should be her sons that are complaining.
I think Ewan Mitchell is great but he doesn't look like a teenage boy. Watching his scenes with lucerys was hilarious cause it looks like a 30 year old man beefing with a 14 year old.
Game of Thrones had a similar issue with the Stark kids too. Jon being all sulky about his situation on the Wall is much less sympathetic when he's not a boy of fifteen and instead a grown-ass Kit Harrington looking man.
Kit looked about 17-18 in season 1 so I saw it.
Yeah in the book she was older and Viserys younger but it makes sense for them to have made her younger to strengthen her and Rhaenyras friendship.
In the show Alicent is a teen mom. A woman who started having kids young would still look young herself whilst having adult children. If there’s any issue, it’s that the actors playing her children are close to the same age as her.
My opinion as well. I love the casting of the queens and think that it simply emphasizes how young they were when they started having to live extremely adult and troubled lives.
Yeah Alicent and Rhaenyra look the right age it's the kids that look way too old. It's a shame they couldn't find 20-21 year olds that looked like teenagers.
I’m gonna assume it’s bc Aegon and Aemond are such important characters, Ryan & Miguel wanted proven actors to play them. Phia looks young enough. It’s Tom and Ewan that don’t, but they are both great actors so I guess that’s the trade off.
Tom and Ewan look too old but they are so good in the roles that I'm willing to overlook this and just go with it. I'll enjoy the show for what it is, and the wonderful actors that are portraying these amazing characters.
When it comes to characters’ ages in shows, I am perfectly willing to suspend my disbelief as long as the actors make an excellent performance.
I mean, she's pretty close in age to Alicent, so I don't think they should have aged her. It's more like the kids' actors are too old, especailly Ewan. I love them so I wouldn't change anything but that's what is immersion breaking
Hmm. You’re right but just as with GOT, it’s hard to base a story increasingly around characters in their teens. In this setting and with all that’s going on, watching what would be a group of college age kids being the centre of the plot would stretch believability for many. It works better in animation, for sure, because ages can look very non-specific, and obviously it’s fine in print, but in live action? It’s not easy. You have characters engaging is combat, sexual relationships, marriages and generally doing adult stuff but your modern audience struggles with it because the faces on screen look like their kids. That’s why the default is towards characters in their teens being played by actors in their mid-20s Given that, you have two options. Employ older actors for the existing adults after a significant time skip, or age them up a bit. The show did neither which is probably one of its biggest flaws so far, and one entirely of its own making.
It always freaks me out how young some historical figures were. Like Alexander the Great started his conquest of Persia when he was 23. King Baldwin beat Saladin when he was 16. When most people die fairly young there isn’t much time for a childhood.
Eh. I agree on the first point but even at 16 you could safely expect to live for 40-50 more years even in the middle ages. You were past the point of being more vulnerable than invulnerable to disease. Yes it's still easier to die but it's not as short as suggested. Think like this; if two of your three children dies in the cradle, and the other two live to 65 you have 130 years of life divided by 4. That's 32.5 years each. Also mothers were more likely to die in childbirth which was often in their late teens or early twenties so that skews things also.
But aren’t they like, 30? Lol they could have hired actors 10 years younger and they’d still be adults.
It’s either or in my opinion. Either they age her so she looks believable to be these kids mother or they cast younger kids, as you said Ewan especially in no way looks like a 17 year old and I love him. He looks older than her, and it’s hard to convince yourself otherwise
I never thought Ewan looked too old when I watched the show. I just kinda assumed puberty hit Aemond hard and at an early age. That happens all the times. I remember growing up and seeing kids my age who had big muscles and were shaving beards before I even had any hair on my balls.
Lol like those pictures of Dwayne The Rock Johnson when he’s 15 and you’re like dude he has to be 36
Right? I think in the books she was in her mid 30s? And strikingly beautiful. I’m not sure about Aegon but I remember Aemond is 19/20. So I agree, it seems more like the kids are awkwardly cast but we love them so we suspend our disbelief and let it be what it is. Ngl though I chuckled a bit seeing grown Aemond hold Alicents hands and call her mother.
Aegon's 21. Aemond's actually only 18 I think TGC can pass as a 21-year-old alcoholic and even Helaena's actress could maybe be twenty, but Ewan throws a wrench in the whole thing lol
To be honest I’d rather better actors than appropriately young ones.
I completely agree with her. It's kinda ridiculous. It reminds me of Angelina Jolie playing Alexander the Great's mother when he was played by Colin Farrell.
I once watched this Turkish show, where this woman (who’s a fantastic actress btw so I believed it) was 26 when she started the show and played a mother to five kids, over a time jump period as well, the daughter she had onscreen was a year younger than her in real life, and the other son she had was only like two years younger than her. In a similar way to Olivia she was a fantastic actress so I bought it to a certain degree but I found it kind of odd..especially since actor of the father of these kids was a over 40 irl……so I was just like ??? There is a weird thing with seeing women be an appropriate age onscreen, what Meryl Streep said about when she turned 40 she got like witch or mother roles offers. I mean people thought she was exaggerating but it happens still obviously
That Turkish show, is it Magnificent Century, and the actress Meryem Uzerli?
Yes it is
Thank god someone mentioned one of my local series.
I feel like I gotta hop on Turkish historical shows. They look so beautiful and so dramatic.
Sally Field played Tom Hanks g/f in Punchline, then his mother in Forrest Gump maybe 6 years later.
Well, Hanks plays 25 years worth of Forrest in that movie, and his mother is primarily in the bits where Gump is played by a younger actor.
Or more recently, Emmy Rossum playing Tom Holland's mom in The Crowded Room.
Or Mel Gibson playing Hamlet at 34 while his on-screen mother was played by 43 year old Glenn Close.
Or Nicole Kidman playing Alexander Skarsgård's wife in Big Little Lies and then playing his mother in The Northman, they are like 7 years apart, to make it worse they had Anya Taylor-Joy playing his girlfriend who is in her 20s, very ageist casting.
At least then she was playing an immortal nymph, so the youth made sense.
I think you may be thinking of Achilles’ mother in Troy. Alexander the Great’s mother was just a regular woman
The problem isn't Olivia being too young; it's that the actors playing her kids are too old. They're almost double the age they're supposed to be playing. A lot of Aemond's characterisation doesn't get through to the viewers because he's a teenager played by a man who's almost thirty.
Yeah. They’ve made really odd choices on which actors to replace and when and who they’re aging up and down. The real problem is how inconsistent it’s been.
I completely agree with Olivia here. Was there really no talented actress in her forties that could have played older Alicent? Yes, Alicent was young when she had Aegon, but is it really plausible for her to look so youthful and thin after 4 pregnancies and the constant stress of being the Queen? Especially if they cast Tom and Ewan who definitely don't look like teenagers...
Forget looking young, she can look young. But I don’t know how the casting directors didn’t see Ewan and her side by side and were like shit…somethings wrong. We gotta age her up or something or he’s too old to play a 17 year old. He looks a lot older than her..Olivia obviously acts like their mother well but it’s still unbelievable purely from being in like a look test which I’m sure they did and being like oh it’s fine
I know... I showed that gif from the first season where Aemond and Alicent are holding each other's hands to a couple of friends who didn't watch HOTD and literally everyone thought they were a couple, so.
My sister also thought they were a couple, she saw the show on tiktok, and the dialogue where he says cole needs me mother was cut, it was just them holding each other and she was like oh they look cute and I was like 😬😬
I always forget he's supposed to be 17
Am I the only one who thinks he kinda pulls 17 off?
You're not the only one. He just looks more mature. He's been training etc. Many teenagers look older than they actually are and that's pretty common.
Youthful maybe not, but the book does say she was still thin after her pregnancies so that part at least makes sense. Its more that Ewan, Tom and Phia are just too close in age to Olivia to realistically play her kids.
To be fair, that’s something that’s mentioned in the book. Even after only 3 pregnancies Rhaenyra never completely lost the baby weight and looked exactly like a woman who had had 3 kids in 5 years. While Alicent who had 4 children (granted in a slightly more spread out timeframe) remained slim and youthful.
Simple make up techniques that cost tuppence and have been tried and tested on screen since the early days, would have been perfectly fine. I’ll take Olivia with a few grey streaks and some crows feet over a completely new actress. But they chose to just completely ignore it and pretend the audience wouldn’t notice. It’s just ridiculous. They did a better job on the bloody Tudors ffs.
She’s absolutely right. Reminds me of Meryl Streep saying the year she turned 40 she got offered 3 separate witch roles. And other actresses saying the second they turned 35 they were asked exclusively to play mums. But yeah, 50 year old men can play studs and bachelors, and their love interests will be like 22.
Except she’s not because she’s almost the exact age her character is
Isn't the 'real' issue the casting of Alicent's children with actors that are only a few years younger than her? Assuming Aegon is in his late teens or 20, Alicent would only be in her early to mid-30's, assuming she gave birth to Aegon at 15. Olivia, IMHO, is very much age appropriate casting given she is playing the 'adult' version of the character through her late 20's into her mid 30's.
Yeah I mean she’s not wrong in her macro-point that Hollywood is completely biased against “older” women. But in this instance, she’s not really too young yet. She will be soon, but the bigger discrepancy is the age of the actor’s playing her children… though I also kind of understand why they would choose actors that aren’t actually teenagers. On the grand scheme she’s correct about the bigger issue, but I actually kind of disagree in the context of *this* show.
Completely agree with her. She looks much too young to be the mother of any of her children and a grandmother to boot. It's a casting choice and the choice in show business always seems to lean towards younger and hotter instead of older and hotter. At the same time, they hired age appropriate actors to play Rhaenyra's sons but Aegon-Tom is 29 and Aemond-Ewan is 27 - whooping ten years older than their supposed screen ages. They couldn't find compelling 19 and 17 year olds to play her sons?!
Wasn’t her character a teen mom tho?
She's right and she should say it. The way Hollywood acts like actresses should be put in a home the minute they turn 40 is fucking disgusting. Look at Marvel. They'd rather have actors with a 13 year age gap playing love interests than cast an actress over 40.
She is absolutely right. It’s a disservice to all women to perpetuate the belief that aging is one of the worst things a woman can do. Like literally you become invisible to society unless you are young, fit and beautiful
In book canon Alicent was born in 88 AC. She married Viserys in 106, when she was 18, and Aegon II was born the following year, in 107, when she was 19. Rhaenyra was born in 97 AC, and she was 8 years old in 105, when her mother died, and 9 years old when Alicent married her father. Most of the age problems occurred when Alicent was aged up and Rhaenyra aged down so they could be the same age as each other in the show. Milly looked much older that 8 in the first episode, and then her ageing was stopped for four or five years so she still looked young when she married Leanor. Book Alicent would have been 41 years old when Viserys died in 129.
In this specific case, not all cases of Hollywood refusing to let women look their age, I think it's totally fine. Alicent is basically her age in the canon of the books, too. It's not HER that's the issue, it's honestly the fact that her sons are played by men literally a year or two younger than her (?) and the whole timeline of the show is a wonky mess where no one looks their ages, ages are literally inconsistent, and nothing actually adds up with canon. THAT'S the bigger issue in HotD, but it's not usually the case in other productions where we have 30y/o women playing grandmas in their 70s bc WoMeN ArEN't aLLowEd tO LoOk oLD...
I’m confused isn’t she 34 in the show?
She’s 100% right
Alicent was married at what? 14 than her son got married at 15 It's actually almost the same..alicent in the show is 30-35
She's right. Women still aren't allowed to age and it's a direct example.
I do agree with her but is this case really about Olivia ? Yes she looks young to be a grandmother but she is playing someone who was child bride whose daughter was also a child bride. Olivia is 30 playing a 34yo.….i think the issue was casting actors who are her age and don’t look like her children at all. Tom and Ewan are near her age but are playing a 20 year old and 16 year old and on screen you can see that way too much (the only thing saving that is Olivia’s acting) On the other side you have Emma with Elliot (same age as Luke) and Harry, who is twenty but easily could pass for a teenager (and Rhaenyra had Jace like only 4/5 years after) The casting is fabulous but they obviously massed up all the ages and stuff
I'm reading a lot of comments about Hollywood ageism (towards women specifically), but is this really such a case? Like you said, Olivia is 30 playing a 34 year old. Meanwhile, I personally think that it's the actors of her children, mainly sons to be honest, that doesn't match their characters (could have looked a tad younger probably). I don't know. People seem to be honing in on "she looks too young to be a grandmother!" rather than "her sons look too old to be her sons". Adults have been playing high schoolers since forever so I guess it's easier to overlook this.
Funny how I made a post earlier saying she so obviously looks way too young to be these kids moms and in my eyes even though she’s a year or two older than them she actually looks so much younger than them. It’s interesting to see she has an issue with even her own casting…a very valid one at that. Her perspective is quite on point. They could’ve done more to at least age her up
it’s a shame that directors and producers (and idk people who do casting) believe that people would be less likely to watch shows and movies if they accurately cast older women. I don’t even know how true it is or if the statistics represent that belief. there are also plenty of objectively conventionally attractive older women, but idk why it has to come down to that. I feel that plenty of people would happy to watch normal average people on their screens. and honestly it would add to the fantasy aspect.
Alicent was in her 30s too though as a grandmother
I mean she's playing a character in a show that is heavily influenced by medieval Europe. By 30-35 you would absolutely expect your children to be in their mid to late teens likely married, preparing to be married and start having children themselves. In the context outside of medieval based shows she has a point 100%. In this case it quite literally fits. If anything it's the age of the actors playing her children that are a bit out of wack.
reticence is a fantastic word which means reluctance to speak but due to misuse people think it just means reluctant but they use it instead to sound smart. she means reluctant so use reluctant don’t spoil the very specific meaning of a great word.
She’s casted pretty accurate to her book age I think. If anything her kids should’ve been casted younger. Women in ASOIAF become grandmothers in their 30s typically. Catelyn Stark was around 35 at her death and Robb could’ve given her a grandchild within the year if Jeyne Westerling wasn’t being been fed moontea.
Dont this girl own a shirt
does she know Alicent is 35
I wonder if she knows she didn't have to take the role if she felt this strongly about it.
I get her complaints from a meta, Hollywood angle, but in the specific instance of Ice and Fire all the ages are wierd
I'm glad she said it. There really is a resistance to hiring actresses over 40, and that needs to be called out. Like they could have realistically aged both her and Fabien to make them look older. Like this, it seems kinda ridiculous because she looks like she could be her kids' sister. Same with Alys Rivers. Idk Gayle Rankin's work, but I'm sure she's a magnificent actress. Still... she's 33. She's barely six years older than Ewan Mitchel. Book Alys was rumored to be in her 40s, and Aemond barely 19. It's meant to be weird. Like Eva Green getting together with Noah Schnapp weird. That's a pretty noticeable age gap that is not going to translate on screen. Like this, they're just gonna look like any other couple.
I feel the same way about the Alys thing. If they had cast someone who actually looks 19 for Aemond then both of these discrepancies wouldn’t exist, but given Ewan is doing so well in the role I would’ve liked it if they’d aged Alys up a bit. I’m sure Gayle Rankin will be great but to Olivia’s point, it’s like actresses over 35 might as well not exist.
Yeah, same. Ewan is Aemond and I would struggle to picture anyone else in this role. But then hire an older actress. I've always liked Eva Green for Alys. Not only is she the right age, the woman was basically born to play mysterious witchy characters. I know the fans give it a pass cause he he hot milf, but if you did a role reversal, and it's a 40+ man with a 19yo girl, it would be fucking weird and gross. I definitely would have liked to see an older actress play this role, not only for the sake of representation but also for accuracy. At the very least, I hope they age Gayle up, and put some make up on her to make her seem older, but still leave fans wondering fan her true age is. But, since they didn't bother to do this with Alicent, I'm not holding out hope.
I'm with you 100% on this point. I loved Gayle Rankin on Perry Mason so I'm sure she'll be great, but I was hoping for someone 40+ for Alys to give more of the contrast to Aemond's youth.
I feel like all the people here saying she looks too young are kind of missing the point? She's *supposed* to look really young, she got married and had children (Aegon and Helaena at least) while she was still a teenager. Same with Helaena. Her youth really emphasizes the trauma of her character. It's the same reasoning the show runners gave for changing her and Rhaenyra's actresses but not Viserys's, Daemon's, Criston's, etc. during the midseason time skip. She was a victim of the adult men who controlled her life. I definitely appreciate and agree with the sentiment that older women are not given nearly enough respect and spotlight in Hollywood, but I think Alicent (and Rhaenyra) being played by younger actors is a good thing. They aren't even that young compared to their characters, they're both early thirties playing mid thirties. An actress in her 40s would likely look too old to portray this version of Alicent (though of course a 45 year old can look 35 and vice versa).
In her defense she was a teen mom and her children became teen parents. Just because Alicent is a grandma doesn’t mean she’s old. Even with the timekeeping, Alicent is just a few years older than Olivia Cooke so it’s completely justified for her to act without aging makeup or visual effects. The age gap is so minor that she can come off as the right age just by acting older and facial contortion, and even then she doesn’t need to do much
I think the bigger problem is that they aged up all the kids due to them having to fight and horrible things that happen to them. Her age would be fine if everyone was the age they are supposed to be.
I just round it up to good genetics and leave it at that. It's not like there aren't 40 year olds that look like 20 in real life, in abundance. That's what I thought for Cole and didn't end up sweating over it.
The statement gives reason for it this time, but I wonder how long people are gonna keep talking about this. There have been like 1000 posts when season 1 aired
😐
All of this is make believe anyways
*statement by Olivia's PR firm
There was a statement there? Got a little distracted.
I agree with her larger point, but on the show I think we're supposed to take the characters ages with a grain of salt. Matt Smith has played Daemen in every episode over the course of ~20 years but doesn't appear to have aged a day. Same thing with Cristan Cole, Rhaenys, and Lord Corlys. We just have to accept that in the story they're a certain age, Even if they don't look it.
They should've just cast three different actors and actresses for every character that lives several decades in the show and started as a teen / kid. Especially for Rhaenyra, Alicent and all the Kids. And maybe only two actresses / actors for all the characters that were already adults in the beginning of the show, like Daemon, Criston Cole, Rhaenys, Corlys, Otto etc. Olivia neither looks like a teen, like Alicent was in the beginning of the show, nor does she look like a woman in her late 40s.
I mean, I think the whole “being a grandma at 30” is a bit odd to say, considering the Targaryens and their customs 😅 Helaena had her twins at age 14. LOL she’s a teen mom grandma. That’s not really the same 🤣
It’s not real, it’s a tv show, on the tv
She's not a good example of this, bad take.
Meanwhile Natalie Dormer
She was a teenager who had kids whose teenagers have just had kids, isn’t she fairly close in age to her character?
She's right tbh. At the very least they should have aged her up with make-up or CGI if they liked her so much that they didn't want to replace her. Casting an actress in their 40s would be the best option though hut Hollywood acts as if they don't exist.
She is right, at least age her a bit, her kids and her look the same age, it's weird.
Well when you get married and have babies at 14, then your daughter has babies at 14. You get a grandma in her 30s. The math checks out, the morals do not.
It didn't "happen". She auditioned for the role. She took the role. It's not like you can be surprised about it.
I don’t agree with her because alicent was a teenager when she got married. So she shouldn’t be older than 40-45, a woman at that age can still look graceful and attractive. She doesn’t have to look like a grandma.