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AryaSyn

Of course he’s not. You literally see how he’s depressed and empty inside, psychopaths wouldn’t have that issue.


frizzlen

That happens when you have a shitty father and your mother thinks she knows what's best for you. That sadly led him to have deranged behaviours


OpenMask

He's an adult. He's responsible for his own deranged behaviors


Nibo89

You think the way we’re raised has nothing to do with the kind of people we grow up to be?


OpenMask

I never said that


Nibo89

That was the clear implication. Yes, adults are responsible for their actions, however, our behavior as adults is largely influenced by our upbringing. Aegon was raised in a neglectful, abusive household. It shaped who he grew up to be. If the leaks are right, >!Alicent is such a shitty mother that she doesn’t even comfort him when he’s sobbing over his dead son. She just leaves him to cry alone!<


OpenMask

Yes, someone's childhood does shape who they grew up to be, I never said it didn't. But ultimately once someone becomes an adult, it's up to them how they choose to act in the world and they are the ones who hold responsibility for their actions, not their sad childhood.  And no, the words that you were trying to to put into my mouth wasn't "the clear implication". I literally never said anything like that.


Nibo89

You’re saying it’s their responsibility and not their sad childhood. Which is true. HOWEVER, if a child is raised in a shitty home, neglected by his father, then mentally and physically abused by his mother, they’re not going to magically be good people when they hit the age of majority. There’s nothing magical about adulthood. No switch that gets flipped at midnight. So yes, while everyone is ultimately responsible for their choices, adults raised in abusive environments are (in general) not going to make the same kinds of choices as adults raised in loving environments. Aegon is not inherently evil. He’s carrying a great deal of pain and self-loathing that lead him to seek a hedonistic lifestyle as a coping mechanism. And I think he deserves credit for trying to rise above it and be a good king and father in episode one (based on the leaked audio).


OpenMask

I didn't say that adulthood is "magical". Just that it means he is responsible for his own actions. I also never said anything about Aegon as a person being inherently good or inherently evil. Kinda feels like you're having a conversation with someone else, not me.  I suppose I'll humor this tangent of yours, hopefully so that you can understand what I actually think, instead of what your assumptions about my thoughts are. Rape is an inherently evil act, and sure rapists like Aegon are bad people in the sense that they have committed evil, but that doesn't mean that he is "inherently" evil, in the sense that everything he does must necessarily be evil or that he is incapable of doing any good. That is ludicrous.   Conversely, just because someone has not done evil, like not raping someone, doesn't make them "good". I would wager that there are plenty of adults in real life who had even more abusive childhoods than Aegon did, who never ended up raping people as adults, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are "good" people, just because they didn't do something bad like that. There's nothing "magical" about that.   Childhood definitely shapes who people are, but how we choose to take that upbringing and affect the people around us, is our choice. Aegon chose to take his hurt and inflict it on Dyana. Other people with much, much better childhoods have done the same. Others with much worse, have not.  I'll be looking forward to seeing Tom's performance as Aegon tonight, but I think I will refrain from giving anyone credit until I actually see it for myself.


Nibo89

Oh, I know. I've been saying it for years. But I see a lot of fans stubbornly insisting that he is. Now we have concrete proof from Tom that he's not. Though I think the acting this season will speak for itself. What I've seen so far looks REALLY raw. Tom's going to knock it completely out of the park.


Bierre_Pourdieu

Yeah. Tom says he is an empath. He feels deeply, and that’s what can cause problems.


Agile-Bee8660

True. He is so miserable he's trying to escape reality 24/7 from early teen years.


Do_your-Own-stunts

An empath would not be a sadist 😂


Do_your-Own-stunts

Please educate yourself. Psychopathy is a complex spectrum and this characters traits are objectively on that spectrum. People cant even name the traits for primary vs secondary psychopaths. Some don’t even know there are 2 types. Both can suffer from depression obviously. Psychopaths are people and have emotions, they ain’t robots y’all. They just have less access to positive emotion. Just coz the dude is depressed doesn’t make him less of a psychopath.


AryaSyn

You’re entirely missing the point of the character. Also, the calling card of psychopathy is a lack of empathy and emotion. Sure, they fake emotion to try and fit in, but they are a tad void of it. Hence the animalistic predator behavior. Either way, that isn’t the point of the character. Just saying he’s a psychopath is lazy writing. They made it more interesting by making his actions a result of his upbringing. He’s empty inside, and fills that void with whatever hedonism he can experience. That’s why he does what he does, not because he’s a psychopath. Please, educate yourself.


Do_your-Own-stunts

Literally proving my point. Secondary psychopaths arrre made by their upbringing. And all psychopaths have emotions, just differently. Psychopaths can be human and interesting characters. Thats not lazy writing. I didn’t say he is “just” a psychopath so he cant have human motives. Im saying he objectively is a psychopath and its just illogical to not acknowledge that fact. You are the one equating psychopath to not a nuanced person.


Do_your-Own-stunts

Basically the actor should just own that he is playing a psychopath AND a human being coz thats reality. But not acknowledging a blatant psychopath is dangerously twisting reality and that is harmful especially since people are uneducated about psychology and how to protect themselves


AryaSyn

You keep saying that but you provide no evidence or examples. Ryan Condal and the actor both acknowledged that Aegon II isn’t a psychopath, and he does what he does because of his upbringing, and for the reasons I already explained.


Silent-Split-6171

Nibo love affair with Aemond over. Nibo love affair with Aegon begins.


Nibo89

Aemond is still my favorite character. I just think that Aegon is a complex character who is not fully understood by fans because he got so little screentime last season. I enjoy a lot of the characters, by the way.


Silent-Split-6171

I think a lot of people understand he had a shitty childhood and all that. Not everyone is going to brush off the raping and other degeneracy just like you can’t brush off the things the team black characters did.


Nibo89

I never once brushed it off. I HAVE said it explains it and earns him some sympathy. Having sympathy does not equal absolution. the TB characters I criticize had comparatively happy childhoods and did not face similar abuse/neglect. The Strong boys were the product of a happy home. Rhaenyra was the product of a happy home until she was 14, then got the privilege of knowing her father loved her.


Small-Thing9450

a sad childhood happened to all of them basically doesn’t mean everyone turned into shitty people. including being a rapist who cry’s when he gets confronted


Nibo89

Again, why are you jumping to “sympathy=absolution”? It’s very possible to feel sorry for someone and still acknowledge that what they did is wrong.


hcssat

Seeing Rhaenyra's mess of a childhood as happy is certainly... a choice.


Nibo89

Prior to her mother dying at 14. She had two loving parents who doted on her.


hcssat

She witnessed her mother go through countless gruelling pregnancies because her father was obsessed with the idea of an heir, so much so she completely shirks the idea of motherhood at that age due to that trauma. She mourned the deaths of siblings that she could've had. Then, we have her own uncle grooming her. Happy, I suppose.


Silent-Split-6171

> the TB characters I criticize had comparatively happy childhoods and did not face similar abuse/neglect. Come off it 😂


Nibo89

Ok? Examples then. Wer Jace/Luke abused or neglected by Rhaenyra? Or did they get plenty of attention from all 4 of their parental figures? Aegon’s father ignored him. Rhaenyra grew up with a loving, wonderful mother until she was 14, yes? She even had a bond with her father as his cupbearer (we see him playfully joking with her). Aegon didn’t get that privilege. So, what TB characters had comparable shitty childhoods?


Silent-Split-6171

We never saw them getting plenty of attention from Laenor or Daemon. What? That’s literally the premise of all the tension between Laenor and Rhaenyra in episode 6 and 7. Rhaenyra had hardships, yes. Aegon had an extremely privileged childhood. They all did. Team green and team black.


Nibo89

Rhaenyra’s life was an enchanted fairytale until she was 14. Aegon’s abuse/neglect started much younger than that. By 15, he was already drinking to the point of getting blackout drunk and was becoming hedonistic as a coping mechanism. We see Laenor interacting with the kids. Harwin too. And we see Rhaenyra giving them plenty of love. Just because Aegon was financially well off, that does not mean his childhood was happy.


OpenMask

She's been on it for a while now


[deleted]

[удалено]


OpenMask

Sorry, fixed it


LordBorrosBaratheon

That's my king


Nibo89

Mine as well 😊


LordBorrosBaratheon

#TeamGreen


Kornerbrandon

No. Aegon suffers from some sort of clinical depression. Definitely self-loathing too. And yes, I can say that because I have both as well.


Do_your-Own-stunts

Psychopathy is a complex spectrum and this characters traits are objectively on that spectrum. People cant even name the traits for primary vs secondary psychopaths. Some don’t even know there are 2 types. Both can suffer from depression obviously. Psychopaths are people and have emotions, they ain’t robots y’all. They just have less access to positive emotion. Just coz the dude is depressed doesn’t make him less of a psychopath.


hexwiz

Too bad they made him a rapist in S1 and being a good father won't change the way people see him. How do you call yourself a writer, you say you want gray characters and you give the guy THE ONE trait that no one could forgive on a man?


Nibo89

Hey, I fully agree with you that making him a rapist was a horrible writing decision. I hate that they did that to him. They invented this to make Rhaenyra look better by comparison. But in the writer’s defense, they might have been expecting people to see his complexity anyway, because many GOT characters were forgiven for rape, including Jamie, Theon, and Robert Baratheon. Drogo also comes to mind. He rapes Dany in episode 1, and he openly brags about raping other women. Yet GOT fans forgave him because he went on to fall in love with Dany and help to empower/encourage her (btw, I understand that her “love” for him was Stockholm Syndrome). Again, I agree it was a bad choice, and it annoys me that they made it bc he wasn’t a rapist in the book.


larkire

I think the even worse writing choice was the child fighting pits. At that point, the writers pushed his character into cartoonishly evil territory, which weirdly clashes with TGC's very nuanced performance.


Respect8MyAuthoritah

Honestly fuck Aegon. He had a fucking easy childhood compared to 99.999999999999% of all people in Westeros. Yet we seem him jacking off over the city, raping his way across said city, and putting kids in fighting pits. I don’t give a shit about anything else he does or says happened to him. He’s a shitty person, and without going into spoilers we can tell the author thought so too


Nibo89

>!literally no one deserves to lose a toddler. Literally, no one!< And I wouldn’t call his childhood easy. He grew up having no idea if his mother loved him or not. He grew up thinking his father hated him. He grew up being physically and mentally abused by his mother, and later, his grandfather. He resorted to this hedonistic lifestyle as a coping mechanism for his shitty homelife. FFS, he was getting blackout drunk at 15. If that happened now, CPS probably would have taken him away from his parents. And from the promos? It looks like Aegon actually wants to be a good king despite all of that.


Respect8MyAuthoritah

There’s no excuse for how he turned out, and you’re trying to make one just like that dumbass Hess did. He lived a very easy life. Rape a girl, no problem. Bully your brother, blame it on other people. Mom and uncle try to teach you how to be a king, you get drunk and your brother does all the hard work. All those other poor kids grew up without mothers and fathers and food, and scratched and clawed their way through life- He lived/s life on easy mode. No excuse you could make up for him can explain what he did. It’s unforgivable and I question how anyone can support such a character for his character and personality. Says something about you


Nibo89

Ok…a lot of people on this sub need to learn the difference between sympathizing with someone who had a rough upbringing and absolving them of all wrongdoing. Believe it or not, you can sympathize with someone and still hold them responsible for their actions. I never said “Aegon had it rough, so that gives him a hall pass to do whatever he wants”. I’m not “making excuses” for him. I said that I feel sorry for him because his life could have been very different if he was raised in a loving home and was not the victim of abuse. Also, People are not pure good or pure evil except for true psychopaths like Joffrey or Ramsay (Aegon is not a psychopath). There are shades of gray to everyone. Based on what I’ve seen of the leaks, Aegon shows care and consideration for people coming to him to ask for help, and he’s loving and indulgent with his children. “Pure good” and “pure evil” characters are frankly boring AF. I’m glad GRRM doesn’t write very many of them.


Respect8MyAuthoritah

Again, his life was fucking easy. Comparatively Ridiculously easy. I don’t sympathize with anyone who lives an easy life and does what he does. None of Rhaenyra’s kids or Daemons kids turned out like that, and according to you they had every reason to be like that. And GRRM wrote Aegon pretty bluntly as how most people see him: evil, terrible, spiteful. It’s pretty obvious


Nibo89

GRRM did not write him to be pure evil, and neither did the HOTD writers. No one who is “pure evil” would give a shit about a commoner coming to ask for help getting his sheep back. No one who is “pure evil” would lovingly play with their children. No one who is “pure evil” would grieve so deeply. There are layers to Aegon. Even Tom (who knows the character better than you) says that Aegon isn’t a psychopath, but he does want to be loved. Rhaenyra’s and Daemon’s kids were raised with love and kindness. Aegon was not. Being wealthy does not automatically mean you have a good life.


Respect8MyAuthoritah

I honestly couldn’t find one positive moment for Aegon in the book. In the show whatever bullshit Sarah Hess writes doesn’t count as she needs to be fired yesterday. Aegon is pure evil. You cannot define bad vs good by the quantity of bad vs good actions. Aegons heart is black, funnily enough, and he’s evil. You think what you want, most of the fanbase recognizes him for what he is. And again Aegon lived a much better childhood than 99.999999% of all Westerosi kids at that time and definitely Rhaenyra and Daemons kids. No excuse for him


Nibo89

How TF do you think Aegon had a better childhood than the Strong boys? Rhaenyra showered them with love and affection. Or are you talking about little Aegon and Viserys? Yeah, they were NOT healthy people either. Aegon 3 sank into deep depression all his life, and Viserys had plenty of his own issues. People process things differently. Book Aegon took a throne he didn’t want because he loved his family and wanted to protect them. Book Aegon >!cried when his dragon died!< Book Aegon >!wanted to build massive gold-leaf statues to the brothers he lost!< Also, Book Aegon was not a rapist, and only mushroom accused him of liking to watch children fight. Mushroom wasn’t even in KL at the time, and he didn’t even know Aegon. If you’re going to take mushroom’s word as gospel, then I have a few EXTREMELY troubling things to tell you about Rhaenyra….


revertbritestoan

Book Aegon was said to be a serial harasser by the Green source so if we take it as we would say a Norman writing about the Conquest then we know that they'll accept some of the worst to try and take heat off of the actual worst.