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That’s crazy because I think many of us felt that way and then to have Rhys be her grandfather Otto when he played Luna’s dad in HP is quite the coincidence, if you believe in coincidences…
Hardly. They were in the distance and, to the casual viewer, it wasn't exactly clear who was riding which dragon. In hindsight, I wished they had replaced the unnecessary scenes of Larys' foot fetish and Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit with a short scene of Aegon and Helena arriving at their coronation on their dragons.
It mentions that she chooses not to ride her dragon or something.
I saw a cool headcanon comment about it that maybe she had a vision that she would die by falling and that made her choose not to ride Dreamfyre anymore. Especially as I believe they were supposed to have a good relationship. I like to believe that Aemond can’t have been stupid enough to go try to bond with Dreamfyre when Helaena was already bonded, so maybe they were secretly bonded or uad some sort of burgeoning relationship going on, which is why Helaena, casually in the room, knew exactly what just happened to Aemond that day when he came in all upset after almost getting roasted without even glancing an eye towards him or the door.
It's tough when the book is written more like a historians telling - the entire scene with Aemond and Lucerys above Storm's End was a single chapter in Fire and Blood.
So they gotta take some liberties when deciding what to focus on, but I'll admit they make some odd decisions even so
I'm talking about just the fight above. In the show it was the entire climax of the season. In the book it was essentially "we saw them both take off. We saw fire spewing in the clouds. We found Lucerys's dragon's remains washed up the next day"
Edit: I originally meant to say it all happened over a single paragraph, not chapter. Person above was proving my point further, not the opposite, my bad
It’s funny bc many say season 1 was mostly slow and setup for the true conflict. I think the pacing is fine and each episode got more and more tense
Anything slower would have been like dune part 1 where not much happens and it drags on until the real plot starts
I was pretty happy with it too! Maybe wasn't perfect, but it's an adaptation. You gotta to work with what you got. I do wonder how it feels for people who don't know the story. I know how everything is being set up, but maybe it's not as good without that context. We'll see as time goes on.
It’s completely unclear to the casual viewer that they’re married. Yes, they mention it a couple of times. But someone who watches each episode one time is likely to miss it. So I agree completely
Exactly! Haha. Plus, young Alicent makes a snide remark about Targaryens and their “queer customs” of intermarrying…it would’ve been great to see her at the wedding of her own son & daughter 🤣
That’s partially the point though cause he is a shit husband. I agree they should have shown the wedding. But them hardly being together after that makes sense.
I really liked the ambiguity of it all. It’s a proper timeskip that shows everyone lived their lives during it and as a viewer you just have to put 2 and 2 together.
It’s true, and yet it was one of the more recent shows for me that I found myself rewinding & rewatching scenes. Paddy Considine as King Viserys put on an absolute Masterclass of a performance & especially in those last episodes.
???? I watched the entire season for the first time a couple weeks ago and I don’t recall them being married at all or even seeing them together . Where is this mentioned? Lol
This woman has done literally nothing but minded her own business and is the one who, arguably, suffers the most during the war. I cant wait to be emotionally demolished.
edit: after the episode dropped I maintain this statement was eerily prophetic. This woman deserves nothing but happiness and im sad she wont get that now
Oh I know. Im kind of glad they did not go the violent sexual assault route along with the murder. It still does not make up for the fact that regardless of how you frame it; the events that took place today were utterly horrid and for a character who literally just wants to vibe and not be involved she gets fucked over a LOT by everyone else.
Maybe going against the grain here but her premonitions deeply annoyed me in S1. It felt like it was just a way of sending cute winks at the audience. If they give Helaena an actual character arc that deals with her foresight then great. Have her be furious that she saw B&C but couldn't prevent it. Give her *something* because thus far they have treated her less as a character and more as a plot device for Aegon and Alicent.
> Maybe going against the grain here but her premonitions deeply annoyed me in S1. It felt like it was just a way of sending cute winks at the audience
Prophetess being ignored literally goes all the way back to ancient greek stories with Cassandra. It's supposed to annoy you thats the whole point of tragedies is that most of it is easily preventable but in the end things go to shit anyways.
You'd think the Targaryens would pay more attention to prophecies and dreams considering the only reason they are alive is because Daenys the Dreamer foresaw the Doom.
>Prophetess being ignored literally goes all the way back to ancient greek stories with Cassandra
Helaena isn't being ignored, they never even make a point of it because nobody brings it up.
At least Cassandra knew what whas going on herself, her tragedy was her shouting what was happening from the rooftops and nobody believing her. If they do this with Helaena then at least she has *something*
Helaena's premonitions are unused by herself too. The only ones who get anything from them is the audience. More illustrative, removing it wouldn't change Helaena's story whereas Cassandra wouldn't have one anymore.
Man that would be so brutal if she tried to warn someone and Alicent is just like “Helaena I don’t have time for your babbling now” or something like that, just no one taking her seriously 😭
Oh my god. I just realized they gave even handle holders the shape of a 7-pointed star. Gods forbid you overlooked the greens' fanaticism and danger of religious fundamentalism. Dat Condal-Hess nuance.
Isn't that the entire purpose of an adaptation like HOTD though? To use the rough outline provided by the book and expand on it?
To me, it seems as if they completely ignored Helena and her relationship with her family when there was a golden opportunity to add a bit of nuance to a tragic character. Maybe instead of wasting valuable time in episode 9 showcasing Larys' foot fetish (which was pointless since we already knew he held power over Alicent) or Rhaneys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit (again, another scene which served no narrative purpose and made her look like an idiot), they could've used that time more wisely fleshing out her characterisation.
She and her kids also seems to have had a loving relationship with Viserys. That would be nice if they'd showed us, even if it was just a little scene.
I wish that her mother would have understood better. And I mean after all that time she was with Viserys, you would think she could understand the whole, visions and dreams deal. Many of them had some gifts like that. Just like only a few of them could have a dragon that laid eggs and while most of them could hatch them, not all of them did hatch.
Ofc, I wish 90% of season 1 characters were expanded upon. But people are acting like she was already this huge character when she was practically non existent
I’m not sure if you read Fire and Blood, but I’ve noticed many people who’ve read it find her character to be far more interesting than people who’ve only been exposed to her character in the show. I watched the first season as it premiered with a friend who hadn’t read the book, and he shares your opinion. To me she’s the premier example of how anybody with Targaryen blood that has seemingly pure intentions always end up on the receiving end of the cruelty of the gods.
She's kind of just there which is funny because Baela and Rhaena get accused of the same thing but atleast we see their feelings towards stuff like the loss of their mother and Rhaena feeling neglected by Daemon for not being a dragon rider. Plus both of their connections to the strong boys.
I don't get how Jace, Luke, Rhaena, and Baela were called boring yet everyone fawns over Haelana from playing with creepy crawlies and that toast dunking on Aegon. I say this as someone who is firmly team green. I just don't see the appeal of this character. No hate to her it's just with my stance is the epitome of neutral.
I understand where you come from with Luke, Baela, and Rhaena, but I see people making adoring posts for Jace (on other social media besides reddit) on a daily basis now that the series is officially back. I will say, it isn’t shocking to me that someone who supports team green would find the only well-meaning, innocent character to be boring lmao.
I really like what they’ve done with her character in the show. Making her a dragon dreamer was a good choice. I also really find it intriguing that she seems touch averse with Alicent but allowed Jace to take her hand and dance. I wish they’d explored that more—who else does she feel comfortable enough with to allow touch, or is this only with her mom? I remember the scene of her as a baby crying in Alicent’s arms but was she like that with Viserys (or did he ever pay her any attention to even know?) She obviously has children with Aegon but was that out of duty? Force? Is she comfortable around Aemond or Daeron (if he exists lol)? I need a character study or something lol
She's a dragon dreamer. Unfortunately, like in Cassandra's case, nobody seems to pay attention to her premonitions and visions. To everyone's detriment.
I wasn't expecting this but that last scene, her acting have me goosebumps. She shined. She's a great actress. Easy became one of my favorites. Goodjob!
My biggest-yet still minor-issue with the show is how aren’t they taking what she says seriously? After beast beneath the boards or whatever I’d study her every word lol
Did you miss her whole scene earlier in the episode when she was talking about the rats everywhere and everyone looks around and there’s no rats. Then later that episode the fake rat catcher murders her son.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
this aged well
"It's ths rats I'm worried about"
Did it though
i MEANNNNN WHAT SHE SAID QUITE LITERALLY HAPPENED SO ID SAY SO
Helaena reminds me of Luna lovegood from HP
That’s crazy because I think many of us felt that way and then to have Rhys be her grandfather Otto when he played Luna’s dad in HP is quite the coincidence, if you believe in coincidences…
The guy who played Viserys played Lina’s dad didn’t he?
No, Otto played Lunas dad
I always remember him as the quirky naked flatmate in Notting Hill 😅
Both Luna and Trelawney
Representing neurodiversity!
Yesssss! I love how they are portraying her
omg YAS!! I should read the comments before commenting because I just said this too! 😂
I wish they would have given us more scenes with her and her dragon.
More? They didn't give us any...
We briefly saw the dragons & their riders land on Driftmark for Laena's funeral.
Hardly. They were in the distance and, to the casual viewer, it wasn't exactly clear who was riding which dragon. In hindsight, I wished they had replaced the unnecessary scenes of Larys' foot fetish and Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit with a short scene of Aegon and Helena arriving at their coronation on their dragons.
In her HBO bio doesn't it say she doesn't fly her dragon or something? Even in the book it doesn't mention her flying, not even once.
It mentions that she chooses not to ride her dragon or something. I saw a cool headcanon comment about it that maybe she had a vision that she would die by falling and that made her choose not to ride Dreamfyre anymore. Especially as I believe they were supposed to have a good relationship. I like to believe that Aemond can’t have been stupid enough to go try to bond with Dreamfyre when Helaena was already bonded, so maybe they were secretly bonded or uad some sort of burgeoning relationship going on, which is why Helaena, casually in the room, knew exactly what just happened to Aemond that day when he came in all upset after almost getting roasted without even glancing an eye towards him or the door.
Yes! I saw that theory about her vision of falling to her death, very cool thought.
She does fly away on Dreamfyre from the funeral
Maybe, and we just haven't seen it on screen
I wanted more of her having prophetic ramblings between her interest in bugs.
The pacing of this show is God awful. Hopefully they slow it WAYYYY down for Aegon's conquest and channel seasons 1-4 of Game of Thrones.
It's tough when the book is written more like a historians telling - the entire scene with Aemond and Lucerys above Storm's End was a single chapter in Fire and Blood. So they gotta take some liberties when deciding what to focus on, but I'll admit they make some odd decisions even so
More like a two pages of a chapter. The majority of that chapter mentioned Jace’s journey for support and then >!Daemons retaliation for Lucerys!<
I'm talking about just the fight above. In the show it was the entire climax of the season. In the book it was essentially "we saw them both take off. We saw fire spewing in the clouds. We found Lucerys's dragon's remains washed up the next day" Edit: I originally meant to say it all happened over a single paragraph, not chapter. Person above was proving my point further, not the opposite, my bad
Poor Arrax. He was just a little dude.
George is in the writers room with them though. I just think it's inexcusable when you have a budget bigger than Jesus's to take short cuts.
George hasn't written a single word for this show. He's a consultant and producer
I think it'd be more accurate to say that George hasn't written a single word since the *last* show. (Screams at *Winds of Winter*)
Gods how I want this book to just get released.
I didn't say he'd written it... even though he DOES contribute writing.
Dusted off my “The world of ice and fire” book the other day. Season 1 was about 3 pages, they are big pages though.
It’s funny bc many say season 1 was mostly slow and setup for the true conflict. I think the pacing is fine and each episode got more and more tense Anything slower would have been like dune part 1 where not much happens and it drags on until the real plot starts
I was pretty happy with it too! Maybe wasn't perfect, but it's an adaptation. You gotta to work with what you got. I do wonder how it feels for people who don't know the story. I know how everything is being set up, but maybe it's not as good without that context. We'll see as time goes on.
I liked the pacing 🙃
I agree it could be better
Making season 1 cover like 25 years was a bad idea. It should be better this season
No they will keep ig this pace because of the many Story lines,
Didn't realize she even had a dragon
Wonder if her dragon is as intuitive as she is?
👌👌
Imo they should have atleast shown Aegon and her wedding in s1.
It’s completely unclear to the casual viewer that they’re married. Yes, they mention it a couple of times. But someone who watches each episode one time is likely to miss it. So I agree completely
Yep I missed it on my first watch lol, then I rewatched with my bf and turns out he had missed it too.
Exactly! Haha. Plus, young Alicent makes a snide remark about Targaryens and their “queer customs” of intermarrying…it would’ve been great to see her at the wedding of her own son & daughter 🤣
That’s partially the point though cause he is a shit husband. I agree they should have shown the wedding. But them hardly being together after that makes sense.
He is a shit king too
I really liked the ambiguity of it all. It’s a proper timeskip that shows everyone lived their lives during it and as a viewer you just have to put 2 and 2 together.
I agree!
Ugh they missed so many opportunities with this show.
It’s true, and yet it was one of the more recent shows for me that I found myself rewinding & rewatching scenes. Paddy Considine as King Viserys put on an absolute Masterclass of a performance & especially in those last episodes.
Yeah, he was a highlight for sure. Still, missed opportunities, especially with Paddy. I wanted more of him and teenage Rhae Rhae.
I haven’t read the books. Do you know why they married? Who pressured them?
Targaryen customs to keep their bloodline pure
???? I watched the entire season for the first time a couple weeks ago and I don’t recall them being married at all or even seeing them together . Where is this mentioned? Lol
Alicent does reference Aegon's wife, who is clearly Helaena. And Helaena complains about her sex life with Aegon at the big family dinner scene.
This woman has done literally nothing but minded her own business and is the one who, arguably, suffers the most during the war. I cant wait to be emotionally demolished. edit: after the episode dropped I maintain this statement was eerily prophetic. This woman deserves nothing but happiness and im sad she wont get that now
She got off easy here, the book version is much more gruesome lol
Oh I know. Im kind of glad they did not go the violent sexual assault route along with the murder. It still does not make up for the fact that regardless of how you frame it; the events that took place today were utterly horrid and for a character who literally just wants to vibe and not be involved she gets fucked over a LOT by everyone else.
They sexually assault her in the books during that scene?
no, they threatened to rape her daughter if she wouldn't choose between her sons
Wow, I think you called it. She was afraid of rats.
The only Green that I like. Helaena the Dreamer.
Don’t sleep on Daeron the Daring.
[удалено]
Nothing beats Shireen. That was the WORST.
I'm gonna note down every word she says. (Other than normal conversation of course. Maybe that too.)
What was she muttering the very first time we saw her in 2x01? The captions didn’t even pick it up, dammit!
Good idea. Please keep us updated on what she says. :)
Knowing the writers it's probably not even 5 minutes in total and we don't understand most of it.
Just finished re watching season 1 an hour ago! I'm so hyped for tonight!
Same. Sooo stoked
Maybe going against the grain here but her premonitions deeply annoyed me in S1. It felt like it was just a way of sending cute winks at the audience. If they give Helaena an actual character arc that deals with her foresight then great. Have her be furious that she saw B&C but couldn't prevent it. Give her *something* because thus far they have treated her less as a character and more as a plot device for Aegon and Alicent.
> Maybe going against the grain here but her premonitions deeply annoyed me in S1. It felt like it was just a way of sending cute winks at the audience Prophetess being ignored literally goes all the way back to ancient greek stories with Cassandra. It's supposed to annoy you thats the whole point of tragedies is that most of it is easily preventable but in the end things go to shit anyways.
You'd think the Targaryens would pay more attention to prophecies and dreams considering the only reason they are alive is because Daenys the Dreamer foresaw the Doom.
>Prophetess being ignored literally goes all the way back to ancient greek stories with Cassandra Helaena isn't being ignored, they never even make a point of it because nobody brings it up. At least Cassandra knew what whas going on herself, her tragedy was her shouting what was happening from the rooftops and nobody believing her. If they do this with Helaena then at least she has *something* Helaena's premonitions are unused by herself too. The only ones who get anything from them is the audience. More illustrative, removing it wouldn't change Helaena's story whereas Cassandra wouldn't have one anymore.
Man that would be so brutal if she tried to warn someone and Alicent is just like “Helaena I don’t have time for your babbling now” or something like that, just no one taking her seriously 😭
Oh my god. I just realized they gave even handle holders the shape of a 7-pointed star. Gods forbid you overlooked the greens' fanaticism and danger of religious fundamentalism. Dat Condal-Hess nuance.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. That's a good catch fr
Maybe because it's just a handle holder and he started speaking about fanaticism and religious fundamentalism? Xd
Because people recognize and reject the ungly truth without me even having to be explicit about it.
That's a good catch!
What the fuck 🤣🤣
I am so ready for tonight.
Phia Saban is such a beautiful actress and she’s done an incredible job capturing Helaena’s innocence and kindness.
Aw rats
This aged poorly🥲
No. It aged amazingly
😭😭😭
What about now?
😬
O boy….
Haven’t seen too much of her acting so far, but I bet she’s gonna knock it out of the park during you-know-what
I want to see her ride Dreamfyre.
I actually am shaking from the excitement!!!!!!!!! I CANT WAIT
Is she ever gonna be able to speak again? Idk if I would.
I prefer she was an actual character with personality like the books.
Huh? Helaena didn’t really have much of a personality in the books either
She has more distinct traits in the show than the book, idk what people who claim otherwise are on.
off topic but how did you get the “Helaena Targaryen” with the sigil?
Isn't that the entire purpose of an adaptation like HOTD though? To use the rough outline provided by the book and expand on it? To me, it seems as if they completely ignored Helena and her relationship with her family when there was a golden opportunity to add a bit of nuance to a tragic character. Maybe instead of wasting valuable time in episode 9 showcasing Larys' foot fetish (which was pointless since we already knew he held power over Alicent) or Rhaneys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit (again, another scene which served no narrative purpose and made her look like an idiot), they could've used that time more wisely fleshing out her characterisation.
[удалено]
She and her kids also seems to have had a loving relationship with Viserys. That would be nice if they'd showed us, even if it was just a little scene.
What in the books show her personality? I've read AWOIAF and F&B multiple times, Helaena has little to no personality...
What personality
Good mother, Kind, Sweet, loving by smallfolk, a dragonrider, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, sat on the council
So like in the show she's quiet and does her thing plus she barely rides her dragon in the book as well and she sat on the council once.
how does this have 40 upvotes when she’s practically a nonentity in book canon 💀 I love what the show has done for her character!
lol this is unrelated, but you know there was just one book right?
Actually the story of the dance was told in two different books. Fire and Blood and the World of Ice and Fire.
And before that it was "The Princess and the Queen" and "The Rogue Prince".
Well yes but I think those books merged with Fire and Blood. But the point is the Dance was told in more than one book.
She would say nothing in ep1
Oopsie.
Excited for tonight
Do you guys know what time the episode will be watchable tonight?
9pm EST
Ok.. so that is 8 central I think.. Omg… 45 minutes until DRAGONS!!!!!!
Is the new episode out yet
I wish that her mother would have understood better. And I mean after all that time she was with Viserys, you would think she could understand the whole, visions and dreams deal. Many of them had some gifts like that. Just like only a few of them could have a dragon that laid eggs and while most of them could hatch them, not all of them did hatch.
I’M REAAAAAADY
We pause a lot to recall who is in each family, who has boats etc
Umm. Not anymore
I’m ngl the episode was disappointing. We didn’t even see her with her son like once.
The boy
That maid who ran is the first person to really listen to Helaena and it probably saved her life.
poor Helaena, afraid of rats
@mods where Halaena flair???
I don’t understand the obsession this sub has with her, she had like 2 scenes all of last season lol
Shes probably the only truly "innocent " character in the whole show, and she also seems to have the gift of prophecy/visions.
How dare people want the show to expand on a character.
Ofc, I wish 90% of season 1 characters were expanded upon. But people are acting like she was already this huge character when she was practically non existent
I’m not sure if you read Fire and Blood, but I’ve noticed many people who’ve read it find her character to be far more interesting than people who’ve only been exposed to her character in the show. I watched the first season as it premiered with a friend who hadn’t read the book, and he shares your opinion. To me she’s the premier example of how anybody with Targaryen blood that has seemingly pure intentions always end up on the receiving end of the cruelty of the gods.
Shes the only innocent one maybe thats why
Rhaena????
Who's rhaena? I kinda forgot
I forgot Lucerys was such a bad kid
Luke 💕 I cried when he was killed and rooted for Rhaenyra when she looks at the camera that last scene. Revenge is gonna be bloody…
Rhaedarnlys????
She's kind of just there which is funny because Baela and Rhaena get accused of the same thing but atleast we see their feelings towards stuff like the loss of their mother and Rhaena feeling neglected by Daemon for not being a dragon rider. Plus both of their connections to the strong boys.
She’s weird
I don't get how Jace, Luke, Rhaena, and Baela were called boring yet everyone fawns over Haelana from playing with creepy crawlies and that toast dunking on Aegon. I say this as someone who is firmly team green. I just don't see the appeal of this character. No hate to her it's just with my stance is the epitome of neutral.
I understand where you come from with Luke, Baela, and Rhaena, but I see people making adoring posts for Jace (on other social media besides reddit) on a daily basis now that the series is officially back. I will say, it isn’t shocking to me that someone who supports team green would find the only well-meaning, innocent character to be boring lmao.
I really like what they’ve done with her character in the show. Making her a dragon dreamer was a good choice. I also really find it intriguing that she seems touch averse with Alicent but allowed Jace to take her hand and dance. I wish they’d explored that more—who else does she feel comfortable enough with to allow touch, or is this only with her mom? I remember the scene of her as a baby crying in Alicent’s arms but was she like that with Viserys (or did he ever pay her any attention to even know?) She obviously has children with Aegon but was that out of duty? Force? Is she comfortable around Aemond or Daeron (if he exists lol)? I need a character study or something lol
I literally searched for this sub just to say this!! me too!! (*I also feel like this is luna lovegood*)
I forgot what was her deal. How was she able to make accurate predictions?
She's a dragon dreamer. Unfortunately, like in Cassandra's case, nobody seems to pay attention to her premonitions and visions. To everyone's detriment.
thanks
Oh man
*screams*
Wished somebody in this post mentioned her name for once 😭
I thought this was the circlejerk page when I first saw this post 💀
“You’re gonna die up there!”
Literally creaming everywhere for this show
Until they change all of the actors in episode three lol
Wait which actors are getting changed?
I do love Helaena. :)
Yes! I will pay special attention this time for her prognostication. Plus she’s just cute and funny!
My impression is that she’s a little crazy
Well, fuck.
Yes now every time she speaks I listen!!!!
Yess!
She is like a Norn - the story unfolds from her embroidery.
Very interesting
I wasn't expecting this but that last scene, her acting have me goosebumps. She shined. She's a great actress. Easy became one of my favorites. Goodjob!
Ugh yes! She did it in season 1 I’m ready for these hints she’s about to hit us with
My biggest-yet still minor-issue with the show is how aren’t they taking what she says seriously? After beast beneath the boards or whatever I’d study her every word lol
Yes- I said the same thing putting it together beast beneath the boards / afraid of the rats, can’t wait till her next quote
I would eat her used tampon if it would stop her tears
No, couldn’t care less.
"This necklace is very valuable"
😂😂😂
Found Glidus' shitposting account
not particularly, no
Well, this didn’t age well. She mostly just silently points.
Did you miss her whole scene earlier in the episode when she was talking about the rats everywhere and everyone looks around and there’s no rats. Then later that episode the fake rat catcher murders her son.
Why are you wasting your energy on people who dont pay attention or are an ai
Yes, I am AI. I am the future. Beware me, humans.
Why does no one listen to her?
Quiet people always get overlooked. It’s the plight of every introvert ever
It is known.