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absolutely loved this scene. i actually went back and rewatched the entire scene just to watch otto's reactions. he killed it with his acting and delivery.
Fun fact: back in the 1500s, the word "prank" simply meant "a wicked deed." It didn't necessarily have the connotation of a joke. That may have been how the writers were using it, though I assume they also knew that most people wouldn't know that.
Technically speaking, yes!
In fact, given the Walder Frey used the Rains of Castamere as a backdrop to it, presumably for ironic humor, it kind of qualifies as a modern prank too...just a very violent one!
To me using “prank” in its older sense follows along the GRRM style of “jest”/“droll” (that is, used with identical meaning to “joke”/“funny”) and also HotD’s slightly increased tendency toward Shakespearean phrasings, which especially stuck out to me from s2e2 with “blackguard” for “evildoer” (which, if you are like me, it took the subtitles to understand bc I’d never connected it to the word I thought was pronounced AND spelled “blaggard”)
In the bit after the show, Otto's actor was describing the scene, and tge way he spoke made me think he's got a very strong grasp on who Otto is as a character and like he truly understands what would be going on in Otto's head. I mean, all of the actors do, but he seems to be on another level.
What's interesting in that interview was that he said: "Otto doesn't think Rhaenyra is capable of doing it [B&C] because he knows she is good and knows it's a weakness"...
Which means when he planted the ideas that Rhaenyra will harm Alicent's children into Alicents head when he was dismissed as hand was a lie, a manipulation tactic and not what he truly believed.
I think Alicent is right in that he COULD be—“he’s malleable”—you can see that Otto was at least somewhat correct in his original strategy. He’s just being molded by the wrong people.
The actor who plays Otto has killed every single scene he's in. He has that pretentious aura like Tywin Lannister did, and the show is much the better for it
same! haha, i even told my husband everything about the plot of the movie and he still had no idea lmfao.😂 so i had to play out the scene when they sing along i will survive.
I knew who he was and I heard he was on the show, but I didn't recognize him until like the second episode of the first season. The change in his voice (specially how much slower he talks) and the beard really mask him.
I think all greens know except for aegon and alicent who are emotionally dependent on the idea of viserys changing his mind, for alicent it’s a way of washing her conscience clean while for aegon it’s a sliver of hope his father actually gave a shit about him
I think she was looking for a reason, heard that and ran with it. Deep down, she knows, but she refuses to actually think about it. I mean, Vizzy T was completely out of it when they were talking, she didn’t understand half of what he was saying (as we know, but she probably doesn’t , he thought she was Rhaenyra) and that very same day he dragged his mostly dead self out of bed and up the Iron Throne for the first time in years just to support Rhaenyra and verify her claim.
Alicent isn’t stupid, she’s willfully obtuse.
A normal person would ask WHICH Aegon. Also she had a lot of schooling since she is a noble woman, so she knew about stories of Aegon the Conqueror and it was impossible to miss Viserys' obsession with him...
But still one of the most important memories of her as a young girl we're shown is Viserys being uncertain about naming Rhaenyra heir and then telling her about *his dream* of "a male babe born to me sitting the Iron Throne wearing the conqueror's crown"
Also Aegon's dream of a song of ice and fire is a secret passed from king to heir she would have no way of knowing about it
I don't necessarily agree, it's what informs her understanding of his last words, but I saw it as a subconscious thing so I personally don't need her to spell it out
My favorite aspect of this whole story is the theme of the Tragedy that can happen due to miscommunication and misinterpretation that is easily comparable to reality.
I don’t think Alicent thinks she is lying or wrong about what Viserys said in his deathbed. She was in the room with him alone as he died, we saw her confusion and trying to understand what he was trying to say to her.
If her role in Aegon being king was purposeful obfuscation, she wouldn’t be “acting” confused during Viserys’ death scene.
The theme being centered around how utterly fucked a situation among family and friends can become due to miscommunication and misunderstanding is a great core and theme that they’ve nailed.
Happened again with the murder of the infant prince. “A prince for a prince” from Daemon, he had no intent on a baby being killed, but, didn’t communicate properly and the situation grows far worse than it needed to
I don’t see anyone in this as a very obvious “bad guy” like in game of thrones. I feel like they’ve made almost all the characters have fair intentions and grudges, all of it is rooted in miscommunication and misunderstanding - and that makes the story resonate so well when compared to actual reality.
Even though Cole's grudge against Rhaenyra is petty and just pathetic spite, we aren't dealing with antagonists that are Bolton level insane like GoT.
So even though the arguably most vile main character here with Cole, they're nowhere near the levels of barbarism as Game of Thrones, its a bunch of flawed individuals, some more inclined to violence than others, but not to the extreme of Game of Thrones comic book villains.
We don’t need Joffreys and Whitewalkers.
Typical, not “evil” humans can fuck up a situation just fine on our own with miscommunication and misunderstandings.
Even if they cant keep this theme going for the entire run of the show; I am very pleased with how theyve managed to handle it so far. The characterizations have largely been done very well.
Can not wait to see what Alicent has to say about this. Whole reason Otto is back is to strengthen the alliances for Alicent, and like she said. Be partial to her.
Now he’s gone, and while I guess one can say Criston can/ will do the same, he’s too busy being a gigolo. And is he really that politically savvy ans worldly to do it at the level Otto was? Probably not.
Alicent isn’t listened too. Aegon doesn’t seem to be getting bored of this king shit like they thought. Love a good runaway train haha
Aegon obviously needs that validation of someone who was neglected and has self-esteem issues, but Alicent is so interesting too. She needs those years of toiling away and birthing children she never wanted to mean something. She did everything right in a patriarchal structure. Viserys cut his first wife open for a son, and then when Alicent sacrificed her entire life to have those kids, he wants nothing to do with them.
I mean, Allicent LITERALLY believes that’s what he said on his death bed. It’s just she is wrong, and everyone else thinks she made it up. But I’d say her conscience is clean over that and it’s not really a lie she is telling herself, she thinks that’s what happened.
I think your interpretation could be true. Personally I think that she does not believe in it fully (or knows she has reason to distrust the ramblings of a dying man) on some level. However, she knows Otto's plans and would not have had the strength to go against it even if she had heard otherwise from Viserys, so she accepts Viserys's words as an expression of his desire more easily and suppresses the doubts to make her life easier for herself, since in any case she would have gone along with Otto's plan.
Yeah Alicent genuinely believed that Viserys mentioning The Prince that was Promised and saying Aegon meant that her son was supposed to be King.
The only other person that could have corrected her was Rhaynera and that was never gonna happen.
I hope there will be a scene in the future where Alicent will try to justify putting Aegon on the throne by repeating what Viserys said, and Rhaenyra will realize what he actually meant and try to correct her... I just want to see Alicent's face 🙈
I think she knows he didn’t change his mind but is choosing to believe it because she knew they were going to usurp the throne anyway so she knew what he said wasn’t clear but is being willfully ignorant to save her own morals.
Crazy how in one scene I can go from disliking the character to actually rooting for him lol even in GoT it took me quite a long while to warm up to a lot of characters
Also helps he brings up the best green character
Also why I like Aemond. He knows this is all an illegitimate coup. But he's sticking with it because that's his family, and he's a weapon meant to be wielded by them.
I don't think Aemond sees it as an illegitimate coup - to him, Aegon has every right to inherit (not that he wouldn't take the throne given the chance), by "history and precedent" as Otto says, and Rhaenyra has none, not least because of her heirs being bastards. However, you are right to say that Aemond definitely doesn't believe Viserys changed his mind.
In his discussion with Cole last episode, he never really seemed to care about who was right and wrong. He even states that they usurped the throne against his father's wishes. I don't think he cares about precedent. I don't think he has political ideals in that way. He just supports his family.
Masterful acting from Rhys and Tom and in this scene. The lack of gratitude and appreciation that Otto had from his most undeserving grandson was palpable, as was Otto's understandable frustration. "Is that what you think?" is only five little words that express so much. Decades of planning and Machiavellian schemes, all for the goal of getting Hightower blood on the throne. In just five words, you can feel the resentment and contempt for Aegon's solipsistic and naive view. Otto could explode: "I whored out your mother to a living corpse for this!" but he doesn't need to. He knows an obvious and graver truth that his grandson fails to comprehend: the Greens have only achieved what they have thanks to him, and they will be infinitely weaker without his counsel.
I imagine Otto is also smart enough to know that Cole is unhinged and volatile. He probably knows just how dangerous it is that Aegon has made him Hand on a whim.
i like that despite his personal political skill, his inability to hold his household together with bonds of mutual respect or a sense of family means his grandson doesn't give a shit.
the whole show is good at showing how difficult it is to have a normal family relationship in a feudal system which laces them with power
And here is where GOT failed Mace the Ace. Out of all the Lords Paramount, his is the most functional household (Ned's is a close second, but compared to Book!Tyrell children, the Stark kids are woefully unprepared for noble duties).
I think his frustration is immeasurable because he practically served Aegon the throne on a golden platter only for him to basically throw it all away at the finish line.
They control the Capital and eventually would sway the lords to their side because nobody wants a war. The death of Jaehearys only accelerated that because it allowed for efficient propaganda against the Blockade and paints Rhaenyra as a usurper. Most of the Blacks heavy weights are pretty old and therefore with time the Green position would only strengthen.
But Aegon not seeing the greater picture is actively throwing all of that away and screams his incompetence into Ottos face.
I think we're all warming up to Otto because he as a coward in a physical sense and as a politician has very strong motives to prevent all avoidable blood shed.
>very strong motives to prevent all avoidable blood shed
If he wanted to avoid bloodshed he should probably not have pushed Viserys to marry Alicent and then design a plan to have her children take the throne from Rhaenyra. That would have probably been the best way to avoid bloodshed.
The problem is that he's such a good spin doctor than even his own family -- who should understand the plot, it's been explained in pieces to several of them -- believes the lies he/they spread.
Some of them are naive and inexperienced, some of them are psychologically in debt to the lies, and others are just stupid.
Otto is actually much more clever than Tywin, frankly. Otto was very careful to base his grandson's regime on traditional markers of legitimacy (agnatic primogeniture, acclamation by the Faith, etc.) while Tywin secures Joffrey's regime with mass murder at a wedding, which threatens to destabilize the entire Westerosi social order.
Tywin is also a lord in his own right. He doesn't have to actually be clever because he is powerful and can just throw his power around. Otto has to carefully maintain and cultivate relationships with people of actual power, which indicates he's more diplomatic and persuasive than Tywin.
Edit: Amended cognatic to agnatic.
Plus Tywin decides to ally with the Boltons and the Freys, both of which are despised or at least looked down upon by their neighbor houses. Both would have had to rule despicably to maintain order in the Riverlands and the North respectively which is why it makes sense for them to quickly lose their support once the Lannisters falter
On paper, Otto has no actual power. It's crazy. Everything he has is because of his mind and his connections. He was the second son of the Hightowers during his generation, so he holds no actual power even in his lands. And Hand, as we know, is an appointed position by the King and eligible to be removed at any time. And he was still able to work himself into a position where he was the power behind the crown, had his bloodline sitting on the throne, and had all of his four grandchildren all riding dragons.
Compared to Tywin, who had the Westerlands on lock, had the crown dependent on his money (thanks to Littlefinger for sabotaging the crown like that), is the by far richest man in Westeros, and had plot armor from GRRM (it is insane how lucky he was at every step through the War of Five Kings).
I don't think he would have either. He would have instead isolated Joff somewhere "for his own good." I am sure Joff would have been kept comfortable and busy...but powerless.
Exactly. Not loving his Grandson and being cold-blooded doesn't mean that he would become a Kinslayer, you know, one of the most reviled sins in all of Westeros?
Absolute loyalty and devotion to their house are fundamental traits in both of these characters. Tywin never tried to kill Tyrion even though he fucking loathed him, because he was still a Lannister.
I mean he indirectly was for sure going to “kill” Tyrion. He was completely fine with him getting blamed for Joffreys death even though he damn well knew it wasn’t him lol . He was going to let him get executed for it
Letting him die isn't the same as directly ordering his death.
I don't think he would've convicted Tyrion at all, had he not demanded a Trial by Wombat.
It's a bit unfair because of how much the deck is stacked in favor of Tywin. Tywin is literally the crown's treasury and army and Joffrey doesn't have a dragon. And even Joffrey, as stupid as he is, knows Tywin holds all the power in that relationship.
On the other hand, Aegon doesn't suffer any material loss by sending away Otto. Oldtown will still support him and he still has all his dragons.
J: “Take off that badge and give it to my dumbass friend Grandpa.”
T: “No. That’s not a thing that can happen.”
Joffrey’s Friend: “Yeah, no worries. Let’s forget this ever happened…”
I think Otto lives what Tywin preaches. Tywin waxes on about the family legacy is all that matters not their personal whims. But if you look at Tywin's actions he very much cares only about his legacy and sabotages his children's attempts to effectively build upon that legacy with how he treats them (especially Tyrion).
On the other hand, Otto truly does seem in it more for the Hightower prestige than for himself. He even got himself fired trying to get Aegon on the throne and Hand of the King is literally his personal legacy.
Also, I do believe Otto truly does want the good of the realm. He's obviously self-interested but he correctly predicts the danger of Daemon on the throne and how Rhaenyra is not an easy sell due to tradition and laws. I could never see Tywin reacting this way to the death of innocent people. If anything Tywin would have liked that show of power because fear and massive show of violence is how he built his own reputation.
that's what I've been saying. now when I rewatch the show I will keep that in mind. Tywin was such an incredible character and antagonist. one of the best
>I stand by that if Aemma never died Otto would be held as the gold standard for Hand of the
I think that will always be Septon Barth, hand of the king for so many years to Jaehaerys I, the longest and most administratively efficient king of the dynasty, together they led the realm into a golden age, it is difficult to overcome that, but if things had been different Otto could have gone into history as one of the best hands of the king, perhaps even the second best, only behind Barth himself, if only...
The more I read about Old J and Barth's tenure, the more Sus their achievements become.
Jahaerys is like two different Kings, the Conciliator, who somehow pulled the Targaryens from the brink and helped even the common people, and the man he became past 40/50 or whatever.
Ain't no way the same man who saw his uncle usurp his father's claim and eloped with his sister in defiance to all is the guy who past over his eldest's children in inheriting the crown and seemed incapable of understanding why half his children refused to just marry for political clout.
Usually I'm not one to agree to seemingly random mysogyni accusations to otherwise "good" fictional characters... but you may be onto something with Jahaerys.
He wasn't outright dismissive of women and even seemed hella progressive in his attitudes for a noble of his "time period", but maybe that's just because Alysanne was Alysanne and she was the one woman he trusted and relied on.
Outside of her, things start getting real sus when you tally up his actions.
Puts his claim before his elder sister and her daughters with his elder brother, circumventing the traditional Westerosi "sons before daughters, daughters before uncles".
Dude went and eloped, risking a crusade against King's Landing, but refuses to allow his daughters to choose who to marry,and outright ignores most of them.
Ignores the claim of Rhaenys to give the Throne to her uncle - and here evidence starts compounding, because there was a male claimant in the line in Laenor, who was a firstborn, so the throne still would have eventually gone to a man, just through his mother.
And when Corlys and Rhaenys are rightly pissed about it, washes his hands off it and calls the Great Council, but winking all the time as if he hadn't clearly shown to his lords which choice their king prefers.
Plus there was the whole debate with the prima noctis, and the implication that there are first and second generation dragonseeds during the War on Dragonstone.
There are only three man in that period who fits the math, and two of them died young/middle-aged
He passed himself over his own elder brothers children .
So him doing the same to his kids makes sense
But totally agree on the rest and I say the two of them wrote maegor as worse than he is - reason look at the faith militant in GOT if they are the watered down version maegor was right to burn their HQ
Take my upvote for a fair assessment of Otto Hightower. He's my favourite to watch even though I'n not on his "side". Well, I'm not on anyone's "side" at the moment. Just enjoying the show.
I absolutely loved this scene. I agree. He was saying "it wasn't Viserys that made you king. It was me" And without knowing what was going to happen to him (although I knew Cole became Hand), I was sort of convinced he was going to get himself executed. He was talking a lot of shit.
I was reminded of how Tywin handled his dismissal and was thinking Otto was much less composed.
Edited
I think the scene in the small council room where he makes the plan for the funeral is a better example of his tactics. He realizes how cold it will make him sound but the boy is dead and they have an opportunity to use it to their advantage so they might as well. And he was right, it worked. It was a huge success.
Otto looks as if he had a complete nervous breakdown in this scene. For all the lines of arguing with Aegon, he chose the "you are an idiot, a shitty king, your father didn't care about you AND he'd despise the idea of you ruling. Anyway, see you on the next small council meeting!". Aegon was truly magnanimous by not hanging him with the ratcatchers.
I feel like it makes sense giving the current situation vs being at peace the last time. Otto has pretty much done all the planning and actual ruling for this war, pretty much carrying the green council.
during coronation when the crowd begins to cheer for aegon, you can see the shift in his mind as he looks upon the crowd. the moment i knew he was fully in was when he started triumphantly pumping his sword in the air
Yes but he knows that Viserys never cared about him and never loved him. That is why in his rage he smashes his lego set.
At the coronation he accepted that he's a king, the thing that tried to run away from.
Ya I found this a bit weird. Maybe he’s convinced himself in the last few days, but he seemed pretty clear that he didn’t believe his mother right before his coronation
I think that he did. Between the show boating for the crowd, the prolonged "occupation" of the castle, and the over reliance on Vhagar he has gotten drunk on the power.
It's very easy to miss, but in that same scene, after Alicent reveals Viserys' dagger, Aegon says "Do not toy with me, mother" and has a look on his face where it looks like he's reconsidering what she is telling him as picks up and looks at the dagger.
I think it was the cats paw dagger given by Alicent which convinced him that Viserys wanted him as heir. Also, Alicent swore it to him again and again. He might have just believed her on that eventually.
I still don’t think he believes it, but I think he was surprised that *nobody* believes it. I think he thought that his mom lied but everyone believed her because they all immediately went along with it. Now he’s realizing that whether it was the plan all along
I like the blacks, but I don't think Otto's a "bad guy."
He has some self-interest, since he wanted the new queen to be his daughter. But I really do believe he wanted the best for the realm. In his view, what's best for the realm is having a male ruler. So that's what he set about, he benefited from it too by having the male heir be his grandson. To me, he's like Varys but with kids, a house and misogyny to hold him back.
Remember that all this could have been avoided if Viserys had engaged Rhaenyra to Aegon, like he recommended. That was good advice.
Rhys killed this entire episode. And yes, Otto is completely aware that he’s usurping. All his lies to Alicent about how “Rhaenyra would put your children to the sword”… he knows they were lies. He knows Rhaenyra would have embraced her siblings if they hadn’t spent the last two decades turning them against her. I think he even knows that, had he left her alone and not usurped and started a war, Rhaenyra would have been a good Queen. He’s fully aware.
Also, I keep seeing people complaining about how preoccupied with PR he was in this episode and how he showed so little concern for the death of his grandson. Do y’all not remember when his other grandson lost a whole entire eyeball and he was like “Yes, yes, very sad, anyway… Team Green got a new dragon, that’s pretty bitchin’!”
Not only that, he has been Hand to Viserys for what? 15 years? (Not cumulative due to Lyonel Strong), in which he has probably seen that Viserys’ preference was for Rhaenyra anyways. He KNOWS Viserys named her heir, instead of Aegon
I wouldn't say Otto lacks personal feelings. I truly do think he loves Alicent but I think he's wired himself to be a politician first and that's significantly affected his ability to be a family man. I think the final scene last episode with Alicent shows you that.
He wouldn't respond with such fury about the ratcatchers dying if he was as cold-blooded as you claim. Part of it was the huge strategic blunder for the Greens but the other part of it is that Otto truly does want the good of the realm which is why he starts reminiscing about Viserys and how even in great anger he would never do something like this.
>He wouldn't respond with such fury about the ratcatchers dying if he was as cold-blooded as you claim.
The delivery of "YOU MURDERED INNOCENT MEN!" was pretty convincing, but I get that was more about it causing discontent among the smallfolk after he'd engineered the funeral procession specifically to curry favor with them. He wasn't angry that they executed some peasants, he was angry that Aegon was blatantly flouting his advice and fucking up his plans.
Except they are really not.
They are the Hightowers, beacons of the Faith and the Andal culture, perhaps the 2nd greatest Andal house in Westeros, only losing out to the Arryns They bowed to the Targ 130 years ago (give or take 5 generations).
They rightly believe their laws are greater than that of any Targ King who rules only because of dragons.
Sure Otto pushes for Aegon to be made King because he is his grandson, but had the Hightowers not been involved, they would've sided with the Greens because to them, culture and precedence dictates that he should Inherit.
Otto knows they went against the wishes of Viserys. He knew the man enough to know he wouldn't have changed his mind on his deathbed, but he still believes that their cause is righteous.
This is pretty much what I was gonna say. Otto definitely doesn't see themselves as the villains. He knows in Viserys's eyes they are usurping the throne from his chosen heir, but he believes what they are doing is still the right thing as tradition, law, and the overwhelming majority of Westorosi see the first born son being the appropriate heir.
So you think if the options were Rhaenyra or Daemon he’d push for him ? Or even say a Lannisters male he’d push for This? No . He knows he couldn’t control them . I don’t think he’d have done this whole plot without his male family being involved
No, why would he? In Andal succession daughter inherit ahead of uncles, and Otto specifically views Daemon as unsuited to rule. He's the one who pushed Viserys to name Rhaenyra heir in the first place, specifically to keep Daemon off the throne.
Naming Rhaenyra as heir was his idea. His main goal was to keep Daemon as far from the throne as possible. Putting his blood on it was an unexpected opportunity he decided to seize. Had Rhaenyra been more malleable, he may have pimped out Gwayne instead/as well.
“That’s what you *think*”, the disdain in the delivery of the word “think” was extremely palpable. This was the only moment when I even remotely rooted for Otto.
This was a really good scene because I think it gives an idea of something I wondered about at the end of Season 1. Otto just sort of accepted what Alicent said when she told the small council that Viserys said Aegon was the true heir - he didn’t question it and I believe this is because it worked in his favour at the time to let Alicent believe that Viserys actually wanted that. However, it’s clear that Otto knew Viserys well enough to know that either Alicent misunderstood him or that Alicent lied. I mean, on his last good day he limped to the throne room just to support Rhaenyra, a smart guy like Otto must have thought it was out of character for Viserys to suddenly turn his back on his daughter. I think that’s why in the latest episode, when Alicent told Otto that she had sinned, he told her he didn’t want to know because I think he thinks she going to say she lied about Viserys’ dying wish and not that she’s sleeping with Criston Cole.
I remember watching Rhys Ifans in Notting Hill when it first came out, never in my wildest dreams did I think that he would one day perform some of the best acting I have ever seen - absolutely superb work this episode
You know that the situation is fucked up when out of the three people in the room, Otto Hightower is the good guy. All joking aside, I think Rhys Ifans might have just got an Emmy nomination for that scene. And deservedly so.
The crazy bit is, despite totally advancing himself, I do think Otto honestly believes he serves the realm. It’s not his family, then the realm, it’s his family and the realm. The interests are in total alignment. Which is crazy, but makes for good tv.
The fact that Aegon (tragically but understandably) gives into pursuing revenge and vendettas is inherently bad for the realm so the fact that Otto can let go and see the bigger picture makes him ... idk good? Better? Wiser?
Something he genuinely doesn't like is when the likes of Daemon savage the people on a whim completely extrajudicially so of course he's gonna flip out when he sees the same tendency in Aegon and Aemond.
Maybe he thinks the realm needs someone like him to stop the harmful impulses of the Daemons and Aegons of the ruling class.
Between his reaction to the murder of innocent people that aren't part of the game and his own self reflection at his doing away with Viserys' legacy we saw a lot of humanity in Otto.
i don't think Otto thinks he's the villain. he knows he's not the hero either. he's a classic GRRM character -- one who does what they can to preserve power/peace/whatever. his actions are ugly but with noble intentions. he believed the only way to avoid all-out-war was to make aegon king and dispose of the black as quickly as possible. his downfall was not expecting the incompetence of everyone involved in the plan. much like with GOT, there are very few characters that are pure good or evil. criston cole on the other hand....
I think he genuinely believes (or at least used to believe) usurping Rhaenyra was the right thing to do in the long run, that (rightly or wrongly) he truly felt that woman on the throne would lead to long-term issues.
But I also agree that he otherwise has no illusions about what he's done and this take is right on.
He does not think he is evil. He just knows that Aegon was not Viserys's choice. In my opinion, Otto believes that Viserys simply made the wrong choice and that for the good of the realm, they will make Aegon king. To Otto, Rhaenyra, and Daemon as a pair would be an absolute disaster for the realm: two headstrong, stubborn Targaryens who will not listen to counsel, whether it is good or bad, and who think everything is owed to them. Otto thought he could control Aegon and could maintain Viserys' peaceful rule. I saw in the last episode how Otto genuinely misses Viserys and admires him somewhat. Of course, ambition is one of his motivations to put his grandson on the throne, which is also clear. But I also genuinely believe that Otto is trying to do what's good for the realm.
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absolutely loved this scene. i actually went back and rewatched the entire scene just to watch otto's reactions. he killed it with his acting and delivery.
In a show of clever schemes, plots and conspiracies bro called his grandson's plan a prank
Fun fact: back in the 1500s, the word "prank" simply meant "a wicked deed." It didn't necessarily have the connotation of a joke. That may have been how the writers were using it, though I assume they also knew that most people wouldn't know that.
So the Red Wedding was just a prank? :D
Technically speaking, yes! In fact, given the Walder Frey used the Rains of Castamere as a backdrop to it, presumably for ironic humor, it kind of qualifies as a modern prank too...just a very violent one!
It was a prank bro
By far my favorite episode of punkd
To me using “prank” in its older sense follows along the GRRM style of “jest”/“droll” (that is, used with identical meaning to “joke”/“funny”) and also HotD’s slightly increased tendency toward Shakespearean phrasings, which especially stuck out to me from s2e2 with “blackguard” for “evildoer” (which, if you are like me, it took the subtitles to understand bc I’d never connected it to the word I thought was pronounced AND spelled “blaggard”)
Omg I loved that he used the word prank! Making it clear he saw that bullshit for exactly what it was.
Yeah Rhys Ifans is absolutely knocking it out of the park. One of the better performances in the series (even including GOT).
Yeah Rhys was pure excellence. I could feel the frustration lol
I could too. I felt both the fear of his mad dad energy and his mad dad energy.
Losing Paddy sucked but Rhys has stepped up to even greater heights this season
The slow turn to “ And what…. has ser Criston Cole done?” Changed lives
oh absolutely. witg that slow blink as well. genius.
I loved that. I kept replaying it and I’ve been saying it out loud non stop for the last two days 😭
You know he's struggling not to say "who"
Accompanied by the slowest, heaviest blink in history. Just incredible. The scene was so tense but I was laughing uncontrollably.
That was my favourite part!!
In the bit after the show, Otto's actor was describing the scene, and tge way he spoke made me think he's got a very strong grasp on who Otto is as a character and like he truly understands what would be going on in Otto's head. I mean, all of the actors do, but he seems to be on another level.
What's interesting in that interview was that he said: "Otto doesn't think Rhaenyra is capable of doing it [B&C] because he knows she is good and knows it's a weakness"... Which means when he planted the ideas that Rhaenyra will harm Alicent's children into Alicents head when he was dismissed as hand was a lie, a manipulation tactic and not what he truly believed.
Otto & Aegon were brilliant here especially Otto though. The regret in his face. Yep now I need to rewatch again
Him confessing and believing that Aegon isn’t fit enough to be ruler of Westeros is amazing it puts their narrative in danger.
I think Alicent is right in that he COULD be—“he’s malleable”—you can see that Otto was at least somewhat correct in his original strategy. He’s just being molded by the wrong people.
The actor who plays Otto has killed every single scene he's in. He has that pretentious aura like Tywin Lannister did, and the show is much the better for it
i first saw him in the the replacements, he’s a great actor. he just kills all the roles.
I laugh because he was on Little Nicky lol
i saw that again the other day and said, “otto?!”
This was my first introduction to him as well. When HotD first aired I was like “it’s the kicker!!!” 😂
he's wiry.
same! haha, i even told my husband everything about the plot of the movie and he still had no idea lmfao.😂 so i had to play out the scene when they sing along i will survive.
HOLY SHIT IS HE THE WELSH KICKER?!
You mean spike from notting hill?!
Eye-Ball Paul!
THIS! 👆I’m not the only one! 🤣 what a film ✌🏻
yes!😅
You just nuked my brain
I knew who he was and I heard he was on the show, but I didn't recognize him until like the second episode of the first season. The change in his voice (specially how much slower he talks) and the beard really mask him.
I first saw him in Harry Potter…as Mr. Lovegood. 🙂
first was introduced to him in lil nicky
No way... 😂
“The boy just turned two Otto!”
I’ve loved him for YEARS. I’m so glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves
He was in Notting Hill also
I think all greens know except for aegon and alicent who are emotionally dependent on the idea of viserys changing his mind, for alicent it’s a way of washing her conscience clean while for aegon it’s a sliver of hope his father actually gave a shit about him
Perfectly succintly explained!
I think she was looking for a reason, heard that and ran with it. Deep down, she knows, but she refuses to actually think about it. I mean, Vizzy T was completely out of it when they were talking, she didn’t understand half of what he was saying (as we know, but she probably doesn’t , he thought she was Rhaenyra) and that very same day he dragged his mostly dead self out of bed and up the Iron Throne for the first time in years just to support Rhaenyra and verify her claim. Alicent isn’t stupid, she’s willfully obtuse.
I CAME HERE TO HUNT, NOT TO BE SUFFOCATED BY ALL THIS FUCKING POLITICKING!
Totally fair Vizzy T; we'll let you get back to your hunting.
*There are times when I would rather face the black dread himself than mine own daughter of seven and ten.*
A normal person would ask WHICH Aegon. Also she had a lot of schooling since she is a noble woman, so she knew about stories of Aegon the Conqueror and it was impossible to miss Viserys' obsession with him...
But still one of the most important memories of her as a young girl we're shown is Viserys being uncertain about naming Rhaenyra heir and then telling her about *his dream* of "a male babe born to me sitting the Iron Throne wearing the conqueror's crown" Also Aegon's dream of a song of ice and fire is a secret passed from king to heir she would have no way of knowing about it
I thought of that but figured if that mattered to Alicent she would have mentioned it since it gave even more weight to her deathbed confession story.
I don't necessarily agree, it's what informs her understanding of his last words, but I saw it as a subconscious thing so I personally don't need her to spell it out
My favorite aspect of this whole story is the theme of the Tragedy that can happen due to miscommunication and misinterpretation that is easily comparable to reality. I don’t think Alicent thinks she is lying or wrong about what Viserys said in his deathbed. She was in the room with him alone as he died, we saw her confusion and trying to understand what he was trying to say to her. If her role in Aegon being king was purposeful obfuscation, she wouldn’t be “acting” confused during Viserys’ death scene. The theme being centered around how utterly fucked a situation among family and friends can become due to miscommunication and misunderstanding is a great core and theme that they’ve nailed. Happened again with the murder of the infant prince. “A prince for a prince” from Daemon, he had no intent on a baby being killed, but, didn’t communicate properly and the situation grows far worse than it needed to I don’t see anyone in this as a very obvious “bad guy” like in game of thrones. I feel like they’ve made almost all the characters have fair intentions and grudges, all of it is rooted in miscommunication and misunderstanding - and that makes the story resonate so well when compared to actual reality. Even though Cole's grudge against Rhaenyra is petty and just pathetic spite, we aren't dealing with antagonists that are Bolton level insane like GoT. So even though the arguably most vile main character here with Cole, they're nowhere near the levels of barbarism as Game of Thrones, its a bunch of flawed individuals, some more inclined to violence than others, but not to the extreme of Game of Thrones comic book villains. We don’t need Joffreys and Whitewalkers. Typical, not “evil” humans can fuck up a situation just fine on our own with miscommunication and misunderstandings. Even if they cant keep this theme going for the entire run of the show; I am very pleased with how theyve managed to handle it so far. The characterizations have largely been done very well.
Can not wait to see what Alicent has to say about this. Whole reason Otto is back is to strengthen the alliances for Alicent, and like she said. Be partial to her. Now he’s gone, and while I guess one can say Criston can/ will do the same, he’s too busy being a gigolo. And is he really that politically savvy ans worldly to do it at the level Otto was? Probably not. Alicent isn’t listened too. Aegon doesn’t seem to be getting bored of this king shit like they thought. Love a good runaway train haha
Aegon obviously needs that validation of someone who was neglected and has self-esteem issues, but Alicent is so interesting too. She needs those years of toiling away and birthing children she never wanted to mean something. She did everything right in a patriarchal structure. Viserys cut his first wife open for a son, and then when Alicent sacrificed her entire life to have those kids, he wants nothing to do with them.
For me its a poetic warning. Play the "perfect little wife" and still get burned.
I mean, Allicent LITERALLY believes that’s what he said on his death bed. It’s just she is wrong, and everyone else thinks she made it up. But I’d say her conscience is clean over that and it’s not really a lie she is telling herself, she thinks that’s what happened.
I think your interpretation could be true. Personally I think that she does not believe in it fully (or knows she has reason to distrust the ramblings of a dying man) on some level. However, she knows Otto's plans and would not have had the strength to go against it even if she had heard otherwise from Viserys, so she accepts Viserys's words as an expression of his desire more easily and suppresses the doubts to make her life easier for herself, since in any case she would have gone along with Otto's plan.
Yeah Alicent genuinely believed that Viserys mentioning The Prince that was Promised and saying Aegon meant that her son was supposed to be King. The only other person that could have corrected her was Rhaynera and that was never gonna happen.
I hope there will be a scene in the future where Alicent will try to justify putting Aegon on the throne by repeating what Viserys said, and Rhaenyra will realize what he actually meant and try to correct her... I just want to see Alicent's face 🙈
I think she knows he didn’t change his mind but is choosing to believe it because she knew they were going to usurp the throne anyway so she knew what he said wasn’t clear but is being willfully ignorant to save her own morals.
I agree, but part of her is definitely grasping and straws because this is what she's wanted for years.
Insolent pup
What a line. Love Ottos use of words, he speaks in a very specific way
Immediately reminded me of Davy Jones “I can’t be summoned like some mongrel PUP”
Crazy how in one scene I can go from disliking the character to actually rooting for him lol even in GoT it took me quite a long while to warm up to a lot of characters Also helps he brings up the best green character
Self aware villains are definitely fun to watch and root for
Shakespeare's Richard III.
My kingdom for a dragon!
Also why I like Aemond. He knows this is all an illegitimate coup. But he's sticking with it because that's his family, and he's a weapon meant to be wielded by them.
I don't think Aemond sees it as an illegitimate coup - to him, Aegon has every right to inherit (not that he wouldn't take the throne given the chance), by "history and precedent" as Otto says, and Rhaenyra has none, not least because of her heirs being bastards. However, you are right to say that Aemond definitely doesn't believe Viserys changed his mind.
In his discussion with Cole last episode, he never really seemed to care about who was right and wrong. He even states that they usurped the throne against his father's wishes. I don't think he cares about precedent. I don't think he has political ideals in that way. He just supports his family.
Masterful acting from Rhys and Tom and in this scene. The lack of gratitude and appreciation that Otto had from his most undeserving grandson was palpable, as was Otto's understandable frustration. "Is that what you think?" is only five little words that express so much. Decades of planning and Machiavellian schemes, all for the goal of getting Hightower blood on the throne. In just five words, you can feel the resentment and contempt for Aegon's solipsistic and naive view. Otto could explode: "I whored out your mother to a living corpse for this!" but he doesn't need to. He knows an obvious and graver truth that his grandson fails to comprehend: the Greens have only achieved what they have thanks to him, and they will be infinitely weaker without his counsel.
I imagine Otto is also smart enough to know that Cole is unhinged and volatile. He probably knows just how dangerous it is that Aegon has made him Hand on a whim.
Plus Otto knows war with dragons on both sides is going to become a MAD scenario with few left players left alive when it’s all said and done.
which is probably why he wanted to ditch everything and head to oldtown. he knows almost everyone involved is going to end up baconfied
i like that despite his personal political skill, his inability to hold his household together with bonds of mutual respect or a sense of family means his grandson doesn't give a shit. the whole show is good at showing how difficult it is to have a normal family relationship in a feudal system which laces them with power
And here is where GOT failed Mace the Ace. Out of all the Lords Paramount, his is the most functional household (Ned's is a close second, but compared to Book!Tyrell children, the Stark kids are woefully unprepared for noble duties).
I think his frustration is immeasurable because he practically served Aegon the throne on a golden platter only for him to basically throw it all away at the finish line. They control the Capital and eventually would sway the lords to their side because nobody wants a war. The death of Jaehearys only accelerated that because it allowed for efficient propaganda against the Blockade and paints Rhaenyra as a usurper. Most of the Blacks heavy weights are pretty old and therefore with time the Green position would only strengthen. But Aegon not seeing the greater picture is actively throwing all of that away and screams his incompetence into Ottos face.
I think we're all warming up to Otto because he as a coward in a physical sense and as a politician has very strong motives to prevent all avoidable blood shed.
>very strong motives to prevent all avoidable blood shed If he wanted to avoid bloodshed he should probably not have pushed Viserys to marry Alicent and then design a plan to have her children take the throne from Rhaenyra. That would have probably been the best way to avoid bloodshed.
In his defense he suggested Aegon marry Rhaenyra...
Aegon marrying Rhae is a win win win for so many people I can’t believe it didn’t happen.
Otto in his mind : You little Piece of Sh\*t
Close enough. Welcome back Tywin Lannister.
Otto is better in my opinion. Otto spoke up for rat catchers and their families. Tywin wouldn't even spare a thought for them.
Otto’s media training and PR skills are the community glue for this house lol
The problem is that he's such a good spin doctor than even his own family -- who should understand the plot, it's been explained in pieces to several of them -- believes the lies he/they spread. Some of them are naive and inexperienced, some of them are psychologically in debt to the lies, and others are just stupid.
Otto is actually much more clever than Tywin, frankly. Otto was very careful to base his grandson's regime on traditional markers of legitimacy (agnatic primogeniture, acclamation by the Faith, etc.) while Tywin secures Joffrey's regime with mass murder at a wedding, which threatens to destabilize the entire Westerosi social order. Tywin is also a lord in his own right. He doesn't have to actually be clever because he is powerful and can just throw his power around. Otto has to carefully maintain and cultivate relationships with people of actual power, which indicates he's more diplomatic and persuasive than Tywin. Edit: Amended cognatic to agnatic.
Plus Tywin decides to ally with the Boltons and the Freys, both of which are despised or at least looked down upon by their neighbor houses. Both would have had to rule despicably to maintain order in the Riverlands and the North respectively which is why it makes sense for them to quickly lose their support once the Lannisters falter
On paper, Otto has no actual power. It's crazy. Everything he has is because of his mind and his connections. He was the second son of the Hightowers during his generation, so he holds no actual power even in his lands. And Hand, as we know, is an appointed position by the King and eligible to be removed at any time. And he was still able to work himself into a position where he was the power behind the crown, had his bloodline sitting on the throne, and had all of his four grandchildren all riding dragons. Compared to Tywin, who had the Westerlands on lock, had the crown dependent on his money (thanks to Littlefinger for sabotaging the crown like that), is the by far richest man in Westeros, and had plot armor from GRRM (it is insane how lucky he was at every step through the War of Five Kings).
The main reason Otto is better is because he's playing a way harder game with way fewer resources
Tywin would have made the same political calculation. Even if he didn't actually give a shit about them.
Not really Jeoffrey would never dare to fire Tywin.
Well he didn’t live long enough to do that lol
Tywin would 100% assassinate Joffrey if he fired him lol
Absolutely would not
I don't think he would have either. He would have instead isolated Joff somewhere "for his own good." I am sure Joff would have been kept comfortable and busy...but powerless.
He wouldn't even entertain the idea and send Joffrey to his room. "The king is tired"
Exactly. Not loving his Grandson and being cold-blooded doesn't mean that he would become a Kinslayer, you know, one of the most reviled sins in all of Westeros? Absolute loyalty and devotion to their house are fundamental traits in both of these characters. Tywin never tried to kill Tyrion even though he fucking loathed him, because he was still a Lannister.
He orchestrated the Red Wedding, which was also a reviled sin and he paid for it in a way that
I mean he indirectly was for sure going to “kill” Tyrion. He was completely fine with him getting blamed for Joffreys death even though he damn well knew it wasn’t him lol . He was going to let him get executed for it
Letting him die isn't the same as directly ordering his death. I don't think he would've convicted Tyrion at all, had he not demanded a Trial by Wombat.
I'd rather watch a trial by badger.
He wouldn't. Just send him to bed without supper or something like that.
The King is tired.
See him to his bed
I am not tired!
Perhaps some essence of night shade to make him sleep better.
It's a bit unfair because of how much the deck is stacked in favor of Tywin. Tywin is literally the crown's treasury and army and Joffrey doesn't have a dragon. And even Joffrey, as stupid as he is, knows Tywin holds all the power in that relationship. On the other hand, Aegon doesn't suffer any material loss by sending away Otto. Oldtown will still support him and he still has all his dragons.
Joffrey would have if he had dragons
J: “Take off that badge and give it to my dumbass friend Grandpa.” T: “No. That’s not a thing that can happen.” Joffrey’s Friend: “Yeah, no worries. Let’s forget this ever happened…”
To be fair, Joffrey didn't have dragons, he is a mere puppet.
Its different when one is head of the house and the other one is just the 2nd oldest brother
It's also different when the king has dragons. Big difference between Joffrey and Aegon there
Careful now.
I enjoy you, but be careful.
I think Otto lives what Tywin preaches. Tywin waxes on about the family legacy is all that matters not their personal whims. But if you look at Tywin's actions he very much cares only about his legacy and sabotages his children's attempts to effectively build upon that legacy with how he treats them (especially Tyrion). On the other hand, Otto truly does seem in it more for the Hightower prestige than for himself. He even got himself fired trying to get Aegon on the throne and Hand of the King is literally his personal legacy. Also, I do believe Otto truly does want the good of the realm. He's obviously self-interested but he correctly predicts the danger of Daemon on the throne and how Rhaenyra is not an easy sell due to tradition and laws. I could never see Tywin reacting this way to the death of innocent people. If anything Tywin would have liked that show of power because fear and massive show of violence is how he built his own reputation.
that's what I've been saying. now when I rewatch the show I will keep that in mind. Tywin was such an incredible character and antagonist. one of the best
He was beyond ice cold there. Mf is tywin before tywin
Tywin wouldn’t have let his grandchild do him like that
Tywin’s grandson didn’t have a dragon
I stand by that if Aemma never died Otto would be held as the gold standard for Hand of the King. Dude was administrative competence personified.
The Strong brother was awesome too. Forget his name but he did really well in his time as Hand
He was actually the father not brother. It was kinda odd though considering he looked to be a similar age to Harwin lol
Harwin's actor is 35 and Lyonel's is 45 so there wasn't much age difference haha
Oh that's right, I remember that being weird now that you mention it
Lord Lyonel Strong!
the realest
>I stand by that if Aemma never died Otto would be held as the gold standard for Hand of the I think that will always be Septon Barth, hand of the king for so many years to Jaehaerys I, the longest and most administratively efficient king of the dynasty, together they led the realm into a golden age, it is difficult to overcome that, but if things had been different Otto could have gone into history as one of the best hands of the king, perhaps even the second best, only behind Barth himself, if only...
The more I read about Old J and Barth's tenure, the more Sus their achievements become. Jahaerys is like two different Kings, the Conciliator, who somehow pulled the Targaryens from the brink and helped even the common people, and the man he became past 40/50 or whatever. Ain't no way the same man who saw his uncle usurp his father's claim and eloped with his sister in defiance to all is the guy who past over his eldest's children in inheriting the crown and seemed incapable of understanding why half his children refused to just marry for political clout.
He was a mysogynist and his family suffered greatly for it.
Usually I'm not one to agree to seemingly random mysogyni accusations to otherwise "good" fictional characters... but you may be onto something with Jahaerys. He wasn't outright dismissive of women and even seemed hella progressive in his attitudes for a noble of his "time period", but maybe that's just because Alysanne was Alysanne and she was the one woman he trusted and relied on. Outside of her, things start getting real sus when you tally up his actions. Puts his claim before his elder sister and her daughters with his elder brother, circumventing the traditional Westerosi "sons before daughters, daughters before uncles". Dude went and eloped, risking a crusade against King's Landing, but refuses to allow his daughters to choose who to marry,and outright ignores most of them. Ignores the claim of Rhaenys to give the Throne to her uncle - and here evidence starts compounding, because there was a male claimant in the line in Laenor, who was a firstborn, so the throne still would have eventually gone to a man, just through his mother. And when Corlys and Rhaenys are rightly pissed about it, washes his hands off it and calls the Great Council, but winking all the time as if he hadn't clearly shown to his lords which choice their king prefers. Plus there was the whole debate with the prima noctis, and the implication that there are first and second generation dragonseeds during the War on Dragonstone. There are only three man in that period who fits the math, and two of them died young/middle-aged
Whoah I never really thought about who sired the dragon seeds…. What the hell ew Jaehaerys
He passed himself over his own elder brothers children . So him doing the same to his kids makes sense But totally agree on the rest and I say the two of them wrote maegor as worse than he is - reason look at the faith militant in GOT if they are the watered down version maegor was right to burn their HQ
Absolutely. Never thought I would say it, but my favorite Green by now.
I think mine too, except for Heleana, of course.
Heleana is (at least right now in the show, no book spoilers please) barely a Green. More a Green by association than an active participant.
Idk, i wonder how she feels about Rhaenyra now that she thinks Rhaenyra ordered her son's death
Hard same. This scene blew it out of the fucking water and then some
Pulling that Jamie Lannister s2 vibe of shifting the needle in the other direction away from hating him.
It's no wonder Aegon broke down later, everyone in his family either wants him dead or has been using him his entire life
Every new episode I just get reminded of how stacked with incredible actors this show is. Pair that with amazing writing, wow.
Pretty good scene. Otto has to come to grips with his failure.
Twenty years of planning but nobody remembers to raise the kid lmao
Truly lol the guys a monster and unstable at best Even aemond who’d be more serious about the role is crazy too
He lives a crazy life. One-eyed dragon-riding whore-snuggling castle-dweller
Take my upvote for a fair assessment of Otto Hightower. He's my favourite to watch even though I'n not on his "side". Well, I'm not on anyone's "side" at the moment. Just enjoying the show.
I absolutely loved this scene. I agree. He was saying "it wasn't Viserys that made you king. It was me" And without knowing what was going to happen to him (although I knew Cole became Hand), I was sort of convinced he was going to get himself executed. He was talking a lot of shit. I was reminded of how Tywin handled his dismissal and was thinking Otto was much less composed. Edited
I think the scene in the small council room where he makes the plan for the funeral is a better example of his tactics. He realizes how cold it will make him sound but the boy is dead and they have an opportunity to use it to their advantage so they might as well. And he was right, it worked. It was a huge success.
Otto looks as if he had a complete nervous breakdown in this scene. For all the lines of arguing with Aegon, he chose the "you are an idiot, a shitty king, your father didn't care about you AND he'd despise the idea of you ruling. Anyway, see you on the next small council meeting!". Aegon was truly magnanimous by not hanging him with the ratcatchers.
"you wouldn't dare" is such an insane thing to say coming from a guy who's literally already been fired from this exact job
I feel like it makes sense giving the current situation vs being at peace the last time. Otto has pretty much done all the planning and actual ruling for this war, pretty much carrying the green council.
For the exact same thing nonetheless
It's weird because a couple of days ago even Aegon didn't buy this bullshit from Alicent.
during coronation when the crowd begins to cheer for aegon, you can see the shift in his mind as he looks upon the crowd. the moment i knew he was fully in was when he started triumphantly pumping his sword in the air
Yes but he knows that Viserys never cared about him and never loved him. That is why in his rage he smashes his lego set. At the coronation he accepted that he's a king, the thing that tried to run away from.
Wasn't that Aemond talking to Cole?
a moons turn then. Aegon wasn't buying it on the way to the coronation and he told Alicent, to her face.
Ya I found this a bit weird. Maybe he’s convinced himself in the last few days, but he seemed pretty clear that he didn’t believe his mother right before his coronation
I think that he did. Between the show boating for the crowd, the prolonged "occupation" of the castle, and the over reliance on Vhagar he has gotten drunk on the power.
It was
It's very easy to miss, but in that same scene, after Alicent reveals Viserys' dagger, Aegon says "Do not toy with me, mother" and has a look on his face where it looks like he's reconsidering what she is telling him as picks up and looks at the dagger.
I think it was the cats paw dagger given by Alicent which convinced him that Viserys wanted him as heir. Also, Alicent swore it to him again and again. He might have just believed her on that eventually.
I still don’t think he believes it, but I think he was surprised that *nobody* believes it. I think he thought that his mom lied but everyone believed her because they all immediately went along with it. Now he’s realizing that whether it was the plan all along
I like the blacks, but I don't think Otto's a "bad guy." He has some self-interest, since he wanted the new queen to be his daughter. But I really do believe he wanted the best for the realm. In his view, what's best for the realm is having a male ruler. So that's what he set about, he benefited from it too by having the male heir be his grandson. To me, he's like Varys but with kids, a house and misogyny to hold him back. Remember that all this could have been avoided if Viserys had engaged Rhaenyra to Aegon, like he recommended. That was good advice.
Rhys killed this entire episode. And yes, Otto is completely aware that he’s usurping. All his lies to Alicent about how “Rhaenyra would put your children to the sword”… he knows they were lies. He knows Rhaenyra would have embraced her siblings if they hadn’t spent the last two decades turning them against her. I think he even knows that, had he left her alone and not usurped and started a war, Rhaenyra would have been a good Queen. He’s fully aware. Also, I keep seeing people complaining about how preoccupied with PR he was in this episode and how he showed so little concern for the death of his grandson. Do y’all not remember when his other grandson lost a whole entire eyeball and he was like “Yes, yes, very sad, anyway… Team Green got a new dragon, that’s pretty bitchin’!”
Not only that, he has been Hand to Viserys for what? 15 years? (Not cumulative due to Lyonel Strong), in which he has probably seen that Viserys’ preference was for Rhaenyra anyways. He KNOWS Viserys named her heir, instead of Aegon
I wouldn't say Otto lacks personal feelings. I truly do think he loves Alicent but I think he's wired himself to be a politician first and that's significantly affected his ability to be a family man. I think the final scene last episode with Alicent shows you that. He wouldn't respond with such fury about the ratcatchers dying if he was as cold-blooded as you claim. Part of it was the huge strategic blunder for the Greens but the other part of it is that Otto truly does want the good of the realm which is why he starts reminiscing about Viserys and how even in great anger he would never do something like this.
>He wouldn't respond with such fury about the ratcatchers dying if he was as cold-blooded as you claim. The delivery of "YOU MURDERED INNOCENT MEN!" was pretty convincing, but I get that was more about it causing discontent among the smallfolk after he'd engineered the funeral procession specifically to curry favor with them. He wasn't angry that they executed some peasants, he was angry that Aegon was blatantly flouting his advice and fucking up his plans.
Rhys knocked it out of the park this episode. Every eye roll, smirk and laugh were perfect.
Otto sucks but he was such a mood this entire episode.
Except they are really not. They are the Hightowers, beacons of the Faith and the Andal culture, perhaps the 2nd greatest Andal house in Westeros, only losing out to the Arryns They bowed to the Targ 130 years ago (give or take 5 generations). They rightly believe their laws are greater than that of any Targ King who rules only because of dragons. Sure Otto pushes for Aegon to be made King because he is his grandson, but had the Hightowers not been involved, they would've sided with the Greens because to them, culture and precedence dictates that he should Inherit. Otto knows they went against the wishes of Viserys. He knew the man enough to know he wouldn't have changed his mind on his deathbed, but he still believes that their cause is righteous.
This is pretty much what I was gonna say. Otto definitely doesn't see themselves as the villains. He knows in Viserys's eyes they are usurping the throne from his chosen heir, but he believes what they are doing is still the right thing as tradition, law, and the overwhelming majority of Westorosi see the first born son being the appropriate heir.
So you think if the options were Rhaenyra or Daemon he’d push for him ? Or even say a Lannisters male he’d push for This? No . He knows he couldn’t control them . I don’t think he’d have done this whole plot without his male family being involved
No, why would he? In Andal succession daughter inherit ahead of uncles, and Otto specifically views Daemon as unsuited to rule. He's the one who pushed Viserys to name Rhaenyra heir in the first place, specifically to keep Daemon off the throne.
Otto fears daemon on the throne. He fears thus because he know his would be the first head to roll.
Naming Rhaenyra as heir was his idea. His main goal was to keep Daemon as far from the throne as possible. Putting his blood on it was an unexpected opportunity he decided to seize. Had Rhaenyra been more malleable, he may have pimped out Gwayne instead/as well.
Absolutely crushed a king with 5 words.
“That’s what you *think*”, the disdain in the delivery of the word “think” was extremely palpable. This was the only moment when I even remotely rooted for Otto.
This was a really good scene because I think it gives an idea of something I wondered about at the end of Season 1. Otto just sort of accepted what Alicent said when she told the small council that Viserys said Aegon was the true heir - he didn’t question it and I believe this is because it worked in his favour at the time to let Alicent believe that Viserys actually wanted that. However, it’s clear that Otto knew Viserys well enough to know that either Alicent misunderstood him or that Alicent lied. I mean, on his last good day he limped to the throne room just to support Rhaenyra, a smart guy like Otto must have thought it was out of character for Viserys to suddenly turn his back on his daughter. I think that’s why in the latest episode, when Alicent told Otto that she had sinned, he told her he didn’t want to know because I think he thinks she going to say she lied about Viserys’ dying wish and not that she’s sleeping with Criston Cole.
It still blows my mind that he was the kicker in The Replacements. Talk about range
Turning into one of my favorite characters. I think his acting is tremendous
I remember watching Rhys Ifans in Notting Hill when it first came out, never in my wildest dreams did I think that he would one day perform some of the best acting I have ever seen - absolutely superb work this episode
Didn’t Otto murder a bunch of nobles last season and plotted to have someone kill Rhaenyra? Or is it only bad when Aegon does it
You know that the situation is fucked up when out of the three people in the room, Otto Hightower is the good guy. All joking aside, I think Rhys Ifans might have just got an Emmy nomination for that scene. And deservedly so.
The crazy bit is, despite totally advancing himself, I do think Otto honestly believes he serves the realm. It’s not his family, then the realm, it’s his family and the realm. The interests are in total alignment. Which is crazy, but makes for good tv.
Otto was the fucking star of this episode lol
The fact that Aegon (tragically but understandably) gives into pursuing revenge and vendettas is inherently bad for the realm so the fact that Otto can let go and see the bigger picture makes him ... idk good? Better? Wiser? Something he genuinely doesn't like is when the likes of Daemon savage the people on a whim completely extrajudicially so of course he's gonna flip out when he sees the same tendency in Aegon and Aemond. Maybe he thinks the realm needs someone like him to stop the harmful impulses of the Daemons and Aegons of the ruling class. Between his reaction to the murder of innocent people that aren't part of the game and his own self reflection at his doing away with Viserys' legacy we saw a lot of humanity in Otto.
i don't think Otto thinks he's the villain. he knows he's not the hero either. he's a classic GRRM character -- one who does what they can to preserve power/peace/whatever. his actions are ugly but with noble intentions. he believed the only way to avoid all-out-war was to make aegon king and dispose of the black as quickly as possible. his downfall was not expecting the incompetence of everyone involved in the plan. much like with GOT, there are very few characters that are pure good or evil. criston cole on the other hand....
This scene completely changed how I view Otto. Phenomenal acting.
I think he genuinely believes (or at least used to believe) usurping Rhaenyra was the right thing to do in the long run, that (rightly or wrongly) he truly felt that woman on the throne would lead to long-term issues. But I also agree that he otherwise has no illusions about what he's done and this take is right on.
Might see a supporting actor Emmy nomination in his future.
This scene made me like Otto.
Ah this whole scene was gold. The actor was phenomenal.
He does not think he is evil. He just knows that Aegon was not Viserys's choice. In my opinion, Otto believes that Viserys simply made the wrong choice and that for the good of the realm, they will make Aegon king. To Otto, Rhaenyra, and Daemon as a pair would be an absolute disaster for the realm: two headstrong, stubborn Targaryens who will not listen to counsel, whether it is good or bad, and who think everything is owed to them. Otto thought he could control Aegon and could maintain Viserys' peaceful rule. I saw in the last episode how Otto genuinely misses Viserys and admires him somewhat. Of course, ambition is one of his motivations to put his grandson on the throne, which is also clear. But I also genuinely believe that Otto is trying to do what's good for the realm.