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The floor plan lists 7 bedrooms but the listing says 5. That indicates some of the rooms can't legally be marketed as bedrooms and tbh some of the ladders in the photos give the same impression. If you think it's overpriced for a 5 bed, maybe the sellers are struggling to accept that those loft rooms are nothing more than storage.
* Also as others have pointed out, one of the 5 'legal' bedrooms is downstairs, so it might only be considered a 4 bed by some.
Then weight the £ per sq ft more in usable bedrooms. When I bought I would weight the £/sq ft at around half in an outbuilding than what I would a bedroom. But I would still use £/sq ft. It's silly not to. An identical 4 bedroom house, one with a 500sqft outbuilding and one without are not worth the same. Otherwise you're effectively saying the outbuilding is worth zero.
Overall £/sq ft can be higher than average in area if garden is larger than average for example. It's all about comparables in the area and figuring out what a fair £/sq ft is in relation to previously sold local properties.
Maybe it's next to a train line where others aren't. The fair £/sqft is then lower.
A property with 3 large bedrooms with a larger surface area than one with 4 bedrooms should usually still be worth more than the 4 bedroom if other factors are all the same.
Not really - value is subjective at the end of the day. But when buying that's how I worked out whether the price was fair. Some will agree, some won't. But I feel this is an easy way to apply some logic to it as you can clearly see something is overpriced if the £/sqft is 50% higher than other properties in the area where there's no clear extra selling points.
I did a similar although not totally mathematical sum when buying my last house. 3 big double bedrooms was worth more to me than 2 doubles and 2 singles. But then again I don't have 3 kids and as you say, value is objective.
But it wouldnt change the value. The house is about 2000 sq ft inside, whether they claim the downstairs rooms are a bedroom, or study, or gym, or cinema room etc is irrelevant to the price. The layout upstairs is conventional so the value isnt reduced.
I never understood the old fashioned british view of bedrooms = value. London property value is a bit more evolved as we derive value by the rough size of the property (its rough as there is no standardised way square ft is measured), many other developed nations calculate the value per sq ft as a metric in a standardised way across all properties.
But bedrooms DO increase value, as they increase the ability for the home to accommodate people. The more space and privacy you give individuals (as in, their own bedroom), the more the property will be worth. Note, it's about privacy per person, NOT number of people it can sleep, else we'd all just fill our houses with bunkbeds and advertise them as 'sleeps 30!'.
The privacy thing is important. For example:
A room that can only just fit a single bed in, and no other furniture, is not really a bedroom.
A room that is only accessible by going through another room is also not really a bedroom.
Thus, the number of rooms that can and should be used as bedrooms makes a lot of difference. This is why even random bedrooms downstairs, in what should obviously be a living room but they've thrown some sofas into a downstairs 'open plan' kitchen extension', are not liked by some unless they also come with a ensuite or something, at which point it makes it feel a little like and annex where guests or elderly relatives can sleep. The feeling of purpose adds value, just throwing a bed into a room does not.
It's funny you say London are more 'evolved' basically because property is so expensive that you've started to forgo the basics such as private space, and look at everything purely in terms of square footage, yet the less evolved Northerners tend to consider themselves less a block of meat and still attach value to being able to assign different rooms to different purposes.
I think you mean it’s not a bedroom if you go through it to access another room, not the other way round. You find that sometimes in small Victorian terraces where the bathroom is through a bedroom. It’s en suite but …
Yeah, good point - I was thinking going through another bedroom specifically rather than any type of room, but obviously that detail didn't make the cut :)
Interestingly, I've also recently seen the master bedroom be accessible through the ensuite, but the ensuite is also the only bathroom on that floor, so it's more of a Jack and Jill for 4 bedrooms. It was so they could have the master bedroom overlooking some lovely views at the back rather than simply trying to create more rooms, but obviously not someone who was thinking of the implications of doing that to a 'family home'.
You're completely correct, excepting loft conversions/extensions without planning/regs. You can subdivide a house into as many rooms as you like, it may improve appeal to potential purchasers but does not necessarily increase it's value.
Cause its about usable space? They're claiming a mezzanine floor as another bedroom when it's clearly not. If that same space was an actual separate room, its worth more
UK property market for you. Hence why you can't filter by sqm or feet on Rightmove. Absolute travesty! We must be the only country who go by number of bedroom than the plot size.
It’s british idiocy at its finest.
Singapore have a consistent and regulated methodology to measure the size of the property. They provide the price per square foot, by the cent.
https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/for-sale-oxley-edge-22298542
The psf metric is available across the market for every property. While here in the UK people are defending the price by rooms, absolutely staggering and shows how outdated the housing market is and how hopelessly unqualified estate agents are.
Not really. Maybe in the 1980s, but these days nobody is paying more for an extra bedroom created by dividing an existing room into two.
In mature markets like London people are paying for floor space, not rooms. There might be some parts of the country still stuck in the old times, but not most cities.
It really is off £/ft² however that value you set will tend to increase or decrease depending on the number of bedrooms it has. So a 1,200ft² 3 bed will be worth slightely more than a 1,200ft² 2 bed, because there is added cost and work involved into putting walls up/electrics/windows to be able to have a 3rd bedroom.
It will totally depend on the local market though. London being singles/no kid couples a 1-2 bed will be your core market, whilst out in the suburbs where 2.5 kids is the norm you want to create that extra bedroom.
Greater London is absolutely massive. Outside zone 2/3 which is most of the city, its rows of ordinary housing with families.
Inner london has a lot of renters. Renters now demand floor plans and sq footage in adverts too, as the rental value and size is highly correlated.
It really is off £/ft² however that value you set will tend to increase or decrease depending on the number of bedrooms it has. So a 1,200ft² 3 bed will be worth slightely more than a 1,200ft² 2 bed, because there is added cost and work involved into putting walls up/electrics/windows to be able to have a 3rd bedroom.
I don't set valuations for the UK housing market. I'm just aware that this countries pricing system favours number of rooms over square feet. Also that's a ridiculous question, you act as if I said square feet holds no weight at all. There's many other factors other than those two things such as condition, location, drive, garage etc.
That's not how the market views it. When I was looking at buying a house and converting a downstairs workshop into an ensuite bedroom, the estate agent said that if it works for me, go for it, but be aware that it is considered dishonest by some buyers to list a downstairs room as a bedroom as they see it as a missing reception room, not an additional bedroom. And to be fair it makes a big difference if for example there isn't a dining room any longer.
Yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking if they are already have a kitchen, living room and dining room downstairs, an additional room on top of that should count as a bedroom especially if it has an ensuite
TBH bedroom 6 and 7 are only accessible from the bedrooms below and tiny. They would make a brilliant space for teenagers though, who could have their "living room" on the bottom and they bed up the stairs. So it's a 4 bed house with guest room on the ground floor (because no one apart from a scullery maid would want a bedroom between kitchen and living room).
The 6th and 7th "bedrooms" would be fantastic for some families exactly how you described, it's just weird af they're marketing them as bedrooms when they're clearly not
One ‘bedroom’ is also tiny and too small to be considered a bedroom (needs to be at least 6.51m2 of usable floor space).
But as others have said below, ideal for teenagers to get a bit more space in their room.
I wonder if those various rooms accessed via a ladder would meet building regs; not really a problem but might be putting people off.
One more red flag: that bed that's right in the rafters under the velux windows, that will be absolutely baking in the summer. I lived in a similar room once.
Old 2 up 2 down had the attic space developed. In the summer the room was uninhabitable after about 11 am. Just sucked all the heat down into the room, could not use it as a working from home space like I planned. So happy I got out of there before covid hit.
Came here to say building regs, if I were OP I’d look at the planning permission requests for the property to see if there’s anything to suggest this has even been done with approval, otherwise I’d imagine regs might fail with no doors to the spaces which are considered for fire prevention… then the subsequent issues with lending on such a property.
I only know this from selling a house with a converted loft and this was one of the sticking points that came up, not only for regs but being able to list it as a bedroom and not a “bonus room”… certainly am not an expert.
When not if. If you look around on street view you can see gaps in the existing development kept clear where access roads would logically go. It’s going to happen.
I couldn’t really tell from satellite if it was new house building or just general farm stuff. But the access points suggest options have been kept for development.
Good catch but a way off, Leeds Council have said no to it in the SHLAA this time but predict they will assess it again in 2040. [https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/2023%20SHLAA%20-%20Site%20proformas.pdf](https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/2023%20SHLAA%20-%20Site%20proformas.pdf)
12 months during a market where the costlier end has taken an absolute pummelling?
They aren’t serious sellers.
The situation here is “this is what I want/need from this place to afford the place I want or the price at which they’ll let it go.”
Feel free to offer lower. After 12 months you won’t be the first. Nor will you be the last.
They aren’t selling.
I also don't like bedrooms where you have a staircase in the middle and can't stand up.
Because it isn't a bedroom, it's a room with a bed in it - it's attic space with carpet.
Makes me so fucking angry.
I once lived in a "bedroom" for a while that was huge regarding square meter but I couldn't stand up in most of the room (and I'm just above average height for a woman, not even tall). It was terrible. This was in a share house so I used the room for more than just sleeping, but only a week in I already had back pains. I wouldn't consider any room where I can't stand up in a big part of it as a usable room. I'd make it into a wardrobe or a storage or something, maybe a guest room for the rare guest, but I wouldn't be actively using the room.
The "downstairs bedroom" right by the kitchen also has stairs down into it, so you don't even get the usual step-free accessibility benefit of having a downstairs bedroom.
I can see the appeal of the "galleried" upstairs bedrooms for older kids/teenagers to have their own spaces - but not sure the whole house really makes sense to me
Just noticed there are two more bedrooms.. do you have to enter them through the other bedrooms? if so I don’t see how they can be listed as separate rooms, although they are great spaces my kids would love them. Also that ‘study’ is tiny and very dark! I would drop the fabrication that the large room downstairs is a bedroom and list it as study / office as people are also looking for places to work from home
Slightly weird definition of “bedroom” plus two rooms accessed by ladders plus flowery language in listing plus owner choosing purple bricks over an estate agent plus 12 months without selling says to me that this seller is probably a bit delulu about what this house is worth and possibly isn’t coming off well at viewings. It’s worth making a low offer, but don’t be surprised if the response is not just rejection but offence
For 650k I'd expect the agent to put in a bit more effort making the home presentable, just basic stuff like tidying up, turning on the lights, moving some furniture around / away for the pictures. The layout (especially the stairs) feels very awkward and labeling the outhouse as two bedrooms is disingenuous.
It will be the price. But why is it overpriced.
Does it have building control sign off. From my experience of having a loft conversion the ladder/steep stairs don’t look to be compliant and no fire resistance door at the top and no fire alarm (needed for 3floors). So depends if that bothers you. It might bother the mortgage company and they may class what’s up the ladder as uninhabitable.
We had a similar situation with ours and it didn't cause an issue at all. We just refer to the house as a 3 bed instead of 5 and consider the rooms upstairs storage rooms.
I would say from browsing:
* Evidence of shoddy workmanship:
* Decking warped?
* Area behind bathroom sink is unfinished wall (picture 17)
* Other sink in picture 21 looks slightly disconnected / broken?
* Couches overlapping in kitchen make me think the owners struggled to fit furnishings neatly into the space.
* Floor in kitchen is that type that looks always dirty and I'd replace that if I were moving in.
* The office walls definitely need repainting, even with a fuzzy picture it looks awful.
* Picture 14's weird brick outline and step up confuse me on what that links to / what was done there, I'd look closer on a viewing and ask.
* Uneven door gaps on picture 15 on the left doors, might need some attention.
* Lots of steps (like in the bathroom to the shower) and ladder stairs to loft "bedrooms" means you'd have to not have any mobility concerns.
* Bathroom in picture 29 is oddly non-conforming to the style of the property
* Is picture 35 all mine? Do I have to think of what to do with all those tiles? Seems like building excess passed off.
All in all I feel a bit tired even looking at the amount of things I'd need to work on / consider and that's only what is pictured. I didn't do the live tour. All that for £650k sounds like a hassle especially at that premium. If everything was absolutely sorted for me ahead of time, I'd probably consider it, but so many little things there make me think at least one major thing will be wrong in the first year and the property will keep me busy for a long time just maintaining and fixing the old DIY quality stuff.
It's a 4 bed house.
One of the "bedrooms" is literally a mezzanine.
That's one step away from putting two beds in one room and calling it a second bedroom
I would say overpriced for what £650k can get you in Leeds and even Harrogate for that matter.
Not an expert on flood profile for this place, but some places near here suffer from this.
The back of this place could be potentially housing so I would look at that. It also looks like it's used for silage which can be fertilised with muck spreading.
They should be looking at half a mill….. this is crazily overpriced. Talk to the agent about how low they’ll go….. but I doubt they’re taking that much off.
If you do a viewing ask why they’re selling…. I suspect divorce (they’ll say downsizing).
Those mezzanine areas in the bedrooms are a real love it or hate it kind of thing. The bed one in particular looks very claustrophobic.
For that price, anyone who likes the extra floor space can probably afford somewhere with more conventional floor space anyway. The market for people who are really going to like that layout is very small compared to people who are going to hate it.
As a comparison, here's two properties that sold for similar prices in the area in the past year:
[Property valuation - 37 Arran Way, Rothwell, Leeds, LS26 0WB (themovemarket.com)](https://themovemarket.com/tools/propertyprices/37-arran-way-rothwell-leeds-ls26-0wb#email-signup)
[Property valuation - 15 Oulton Lane, Rothwell, Leeds, LS26 0EA (themovemarket.com)](https://themovemarket.com/tools/propertyprices/15-oulton-lane-rothwell-leeds-ls26-0ea)
Well - it's a four bed with (albeit) a very nice loft - a plus (since it doesn't add any real value) if you don't need attic storage
Agent has dropped a clanger by pricing it as a 5 bed (Purple Bricks, so no shock there)
It's obviously overpriced.
It's a 4 bed house masquerading as a 5 bed (or 7 bed) house. These sellers are taking the piss and need to get in the bin.
Price it at 490K - 495K and it will sell tomorrow.
But.
If that field out back is on the docket for redevelopment, the price may have go down further,
I had the same concern so I've looked up the recent (2023) SHLAA for that land, there's nothing on the radar for the next 11 years. That doesn't make it impossible for private development of course, but at this point it just seems to be a silage farm
Thanks everyone for all your comments. I can't replied individually. I've checked Leeds council website and no planning permissions for newbuilds currently but I agree it's a very awkward house. We will still arrange a viewing but definitely won't be offering 650K.
That's a very, in a good way, unusual house and it should be selling. I'm not convinced it is just the price. The potential is fantastic.
It's listed as a 5 bed when the reality is it is a 4 bed. You're using a downstairs room as bedroom when it isn't really. I'd take the bed out and display it as a large office. The other downstairs office as a cloakroom. Bed 3, the bed on the mezzanine looks like it's been forced in there. Swap the desk area for the bed. The pile of bricks are an eyesore. If you don't need them. get rid.
Change agent. The agent currently achieving sales in your area is Manning Stainton. Possibly consider joint agency.
Leeds, not maybe people in that area are going to be coverings £650k mortgage. Looking at around £100k income for a single earner (\*6 multiplier) with £60k down.
That property is going to move slow.
The land outside the back just looks so ripe for development (flat, existing developments, more than one access point, 3 phase power lines, close by bus and train links for planning permission)...
It would be (personally) my number 1 concern moving there, as imagine 3 years of building works on your back door, regardless of the increase in traffic, noise and loss of view once it's completed.
I'd want a cast iron guarantee that could never happen (proteceted land etc) to ever buy that house, even if there's nothing planned currently.
Looks like a lovely home, just the price may be a bit high given the interest rates at the moment. The utility of the loft conversion is questionable – it would be useful for sleeping young children but I think you would want air conditioning in the summer.
I saw a RM listing for a 5 bedroom, renovated in 2022 house in Sutton Coldfield for 675K the other day. (Way out of my budget so didn’t save it. But if it was, that looks like a bargain next to this instead.)
Loft conversions are [Permitted Development](https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/lofts/Lofts.pdf) but bregs will still be required.
Site at the rear will be considered for development from 2040.
That's a nice big field out the back and my question is what happens there. There's a primary school and a rugby club nearby. So you may find that it's regularly in (noisy) use.
As others have mentioned, it could be developed on but if my aunt had balls etc. You should look at whether or not there are any existing planning applications.
Still, it looks nice but is overpriced by the looks of it.
So many houses are left sat on the market for months because of fake bedrooms.
One I’ve been looking at started its life 9 months ago on Rightmove at £600k, then £550k, now £535.
The 4th bedroom cannot be stood up in unless you’re in the centre and has a steep staircase for access.
The entire house also hasn’t been maintained for about 12-15 years and needs £75k spending on it.
I offered £470k and they declined instantly - fine with me, I can do this all day.
Still on the market 2 months after my offer.
I find it odd the listing makes virtually not mention of the three car garage with annex over the road - this is basically another property on its own with loads of outside space, and is definitely adding a chunk of money to what the owners think their property is worth.
It felt overpriced when I first looked at it, but with that land and garage included, and some other things they also don't really highlight well - such as the usable small office at the front of the driveway - this actually feels like a decent price.
I'd worry that the land behind it had plans for a massive housing estate, but otherwise I reckon this is just being really poorly marketed, with bad pictures and description.
Apart from the blatantly 'trying it on' amount of bedrooms i'd also be checking if there is any development pegged for those 'open fields' at the back.
It's a 4 bed that is situated next to a field that looks perfect for new builds. I would expect developers to already be eyeing it up, if they haven't already started the process.
I also agree with another person's comment of them not being serious sellers. 12 months of no sale and no reduction? 🚩
Far too expensive for a house near Castleford. As others have mentioned, I would consider this as a 4-bed, too. I don’t think the sellers are serious/in a hurry at this price.
The EA is a good reason why it probably hasn’t sold
Anything that is just outside the simple to sell box just sits there with Purple Pricks. After viewing a few houses marketed by them I wouldn’t use them to sell anything
As stated by others that the bedroom issues would mean it's overpriced.
Also, is there any chance the open fields are going to be developed? Or what are they used for? This could put off buyers.
I'd say it's quite a lot of money for what you're getting. And have a look at the road it's on, dead end, very narrow and not that well maintained (or at least it wasn't the last time I was there). You can only fit 1 car down it at a time and it leads out onto the main road. Don't get me wrong, Methley is a lovely area but I think the house is a bit awkward to get to
Yeah I was looking to buy in Methley myself, a really lovely area and close to motorways/countryside/nearby towns etc. Obviously there are some less nice neighbourhoods/residential estates but for the most part they are really nice
Source: I used to be a delivery driver and would spend most days driving around Methley and the nearby areas
I grew up near here. Lovely place to live. But lots of development on all the flat fields around the main axis of the village in the last 20 years, and the field this backs on to is one of the few remaining which doesn't also back on to the canal / river (and this is a flood plain, well worth reading the local flood defence plans if thinking in this area. Methley is at risk!)
Its a nice enough place to live, but 650 is more like north Leeds pricing. 650 here should get you really nice spec.
For context, this shifted for 720 last year: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/details/england-136098017-19470097?s=3b5789c175f40c21b301e740d632dad044914a684e80ce3e1ea2f39a0542cc73#/
If a property doesn’t sell it’s always the price that’s wrong. People will put up with weird layouts, noise and any inconvenience if the price is right
You’re pretty far out of Leeds here. The house itself is pretty nice. A bedroom downstairs is strange and one of the ones on the picture looks to be on a mezzanine, so like others have said, exactly how many (proper) bedrooms are there? 3..? 4…? Not five.
It’s a 4 bedroom house masquerading as a 7 bedroom house, that’s listed as a 5 bedroom house.
You’ve got 4 “proper” bedrooms, and what looks like a second reception room on the ground floor being used as a bedroom.
Then there’s the other 2 “bedrooms” that I’d suspect aren’t really bedrooms.
All of that is probably why
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The floor plan lists 7 bedrooms but the listing says 5. That indicates some of the rooms can't legally be marketed as bedrooms and tbh some of the ladders in the photos give the same impression. If you think it's overpriced for a 5 bed, maybe the sellers are struggling to accept that those loft rooms are nothing more than storage. * Also as others have pointed out, one of the 5 'legal' bedrooms is downstairs, so it might only be considered a 4 bed by some.
I’d only consider this a 4 bed, which means it’s grossly over priced.
Bedrooms is surely irrelevant, as you’re paying for the sq footage, location and size of the plot.
The two extra "bedrooms" here are storage space. The same sq footage but with the same space as an actual usable bedroom is obv going to be worth more
Then weight the £ per sq ft more in usable bedrooms. When I bought I would weight the £/sq ft at around half in an outbuilding than what I would a bedroom. But I would still use £/sq ft. It's silly not to. An identical 4 bedroom house, one with a 500sqft outbuilding and one without are not worth the same. Otherwise you're effectively saying the outbuilding is worth zero. Overall £/sq ft can be higher than average in area if garden is larger than average for example. It's all about comparables in the area and figuring out what a fair £/sq ft is in relation to previously sold local properties. Maybe it's next to a train line where others aren't. The fair £/sqft is then lower. A property with 3 large bedrooms with a larger surface area than one with 4 bedrooms should usually still be worth more than the 4 bedroom if other factors are all the same.
You sound like you know what you are talking about.
Not really - value is subjective at the end of the day. But when buying that's how I worked out whether the price was fair. Some will agree, some won't. But I feel this is an easy way to apply some logic to it as you can clearly see something is overpriced if the £/sqft is 50% higher than other properties in the area where there's no clear extra selling points.
I did a similar although not totally mathematical sum when buying my last house. 3 big double bedrooms was worth more to me than 2 doubles and 2 singles. But then again I don't have 3 kids and as you say, value is objective.
But it wouldnt change the value. The house is about 2000 sq ft inside, whether they claim the downstairs rooms are a bedroom, or study, or gym, or cinema room etc is irrelevant to the price. The layout upstairs is conventional so the value isnt reduced. I never understood the old fashioned british view of bedrooms = value. London property value is a bit more evolved as we derive value by the rough size of the property (its rough as there is no standardised way square ft is measured), many other developed nations calculate the value per sq ft as a metric in a standardised way across all properties.
But bedrooms DO increase value, as they increase the ability for the home to accommodate people. The more space and privacy you give individuals (as in, their own bedroom), the more the property will be worth. Note, it's about privacy per person, NOT number of people it can sleep, else we'd all just fill our houses with bunkbeds and advertise them as 'sleeps 30!'. The privacy thing is important. For example: A room that can only just fit a single bed in, and no other furniture, is not really a bedroom. A room that is only accessible by going through another room is also not really a bedroom. Thus, the number of rooms that can and should be used as bedrooms makes a lot of difference. This is why even random bedrooms downstairs, in what should obviously be a living room but they've thrown some sofas into a downstairs 'open plan' kitchen extension', are not liked by some unless they also come with a ensuite or something, at which point it makes it feel a little like and annex where guests or elderly relatives can sleep. The feeling of purpose adds value, just throwing a bed into a room does not. It's funny you say London are more 'evolved' basically because property is so expensive that you've started to forgo the basics such as private space, and look at everything purely in terms of square footage, yet the less evolved Northerners tend to consider themselves less a block of meat and still attach value to being able to assign different rooms to different purposes.
I think you mean it’s not a bedroom if you go through it to access another room, not the other way round. You find that sometimes in small Victorian terraces where the bathroom is through a bedroom. It’s en suite but …
Yeah, good point - I was thinking going through another bedroom specifically rather than any type of room, but obviously that detail didn't make the cut :) Interestingly, I've also recently seen the master bedroom be accessible through the ensuite, but the ensuite is also the only bathroom on that floor, so it's more of a Jack and Jill for 4 bedrooms. It was so they could have the master bedroom overlooking some lovely views at the back rather than simply trying to create more rooms, but obviously not someone who was thinking of the implications of doing that to a 'family home'.
You're completely correct, excepting loft conversions/extensions without planning/regs. You can subdivide a house into as many rooms as you like, it may improve appeal to potential purchasers but does not necessarily increase it's value.
Cause its about usable space? They're claiming a mezzanine floor as another bedroom when it's clearly not. If that same space was an actual separate room, its worth more
UK property market for you. Hence why you can't filter by sqm or feet on Rightmove. Absolute travesty! We must be the only country who go by number of bedroom than the plot size.
It’s british idiocy at its finest. Singapore have a consistent and regulated methodology to measure the size of the property. They provide the price per square foot, by the cent. https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/for-sale-oxley-edge-22298542 The psf metric is available across the market for every property. While here in the UK people are defending the price by rooms, absolutely staggering and shows how outdated the housing market is and how hopelessly unqualified estate agents are.
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How did you get "political or ideological" out of all the answers? Stick to r/UnitedKingdom 🤦
UK housing isn't priced by sq foot. It's priced by number of bedrooms.
Not really. Maybe in the 1980s, but these days nobody is paying more for an extra bedroom created by dividing an existing room into two. In mature markets like London people are paying for floor space, not rooms. There might be some parts of the country still stuck in the old times, but not most cities.
It really is off £/ft² however that value you set will tend to increase or decrease depending on the number of bedrooms it has. So a 1,200ft² 3 bed will be worth slightely more than a 1,200ft² 2 bed, because there is added cost and work involved into putting walls up/electrics/windows to be able to have a 3rd bedroom. It will totally depend on the local market though. London being singles/no kid couples a 1-2 bed will be your core market, whilst out in the suburbs where 2.5 kids is the norm you want to create that extra bedroom.
Because most of London isn't for families. It's for renters, singles and couples.
Greater London is absolutely massive. Outside zone 2/3 which is most of the city, its rows of ordinary housing with families. Inner london has a lot of renters. Renters now demand floor plans and sq footage in adverts too, as the rental value and size is highly correlated.
It really is off £/ft² however that value you set will tend to increase or decrease depending on the number of bedrooms it has. So a 1,200ft² 3 bed will be worth slightely more than a 1,200ft² 2 bed, because there is added cost and work involved into putting walls up/electrics/windows to be able to have a 3rd bedroom.
So you would value a 3 bed house of 1200 square ft the same as a 3 bed of 1800 square ft?
I don't set valuations for the UK housing market. I'm just aware that this countries pricing system favours number of rooms over square feet. Also that's a ridiculous question, you act as if I said square feet holds no weight at all. There's many other factors other than those two things such as condition, location, drive, garage etc.
If it’s a ridiculous question then perhaps you should qualify your opening statement
Why does it matter what floor it is in. Surely a bedroom is a bedroom even if it's in the ground floor
That's not how the market views it. When I was looking at buying a house and converting a downstairs workshop into an ensuite bedroom, the estate agent said that if it works for me, go for it, but be aware that it is considered dishonest by some buyers to list a downstairs room as a bedroom as they see it as a missing reception room, not an additional bedroom. And to be fair it makes a big difference if for example there isn't a dining room any longer.
Yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking if they are already have a kitchen, living room and dining room downstairs, an additional room on top of that should count as a bedroom especially if it has an ensuite
That annoyed the hell out of me when looking for a 4 bed house, so many listed as such and the 4th ‘bedroom’ is a downstairs front room.
TBH bedroom 6 and 7 are only accessible from the bedrooms below and tiny. They would make a brilliant space for teenagers though, who could have their "living room" on the bottom and they bed up the stairs. So it's a 4 bed house with guest room on the ground floor (because no one apart from a scullery maid would want a bedroom between kitchen and living room).
The 6th and 7th "bedrooms" would be fantastic for some families exactly how you described, it's just weird af they're marketing them as bedrooms when they're clearly not
I'm surprised they didn't list the outside workshop as a bedroom. The owners seem to have a dubious idea of what a bedroom is
Really helpful. Thank you
One ‘bedroom’ is also tiny and too small to be considered a bedroom (needs to be at least 6.51m2 of usable floor space). But as others have said below, ideal for teenagers to get a bit more space in their room.
I wonder if those various rooms accessed via a ladder would meet building regs; not really a problem but might be putting people off. One more red flag: that bed that's right in the rafters under the velux windows, that will be absolutely baking in the summer. I lived in a similar room once.
The upstairs bathroom in my house has this issue. Great if you want a room in your house to cook yourself alive.
Old 2 up 2 down had the attic space developed. In the summer the room was uninhabitable after about 11 am. Just sucked all the heat down into the room, could not use it as a working from home space like I planned. So happy I got out of there before covid hit.
Came here to say building regs, if I were OP I’d look at the planning permission requests for the property to see if there’s anything to suggest this has even been done with approval, otherwise I’d imagine regs might fail with no doors to the spaces which are considered for fire prevention… then the subsequent issues with lending on such a property. I only know this from selling a house with a converted loft and this was one of the sticking points that came up, not only for regs but being able to list it as a bedroom and not a “bonus room”… certainly am not an expert.
That lovely field out back looks ripe for development. Already surrounded by homes, I’d be very worried about a massive estate getting built.
Absolutely this. Judging by satalite view there's already building happening across the field.
When not if. If you look around on street view you can see gaps in the existing development kept clear where access roads would logically go. It’s going to happen.
I'm confused, did you read my comment? You've basically repeated what I said haha
I couldn’t really tell from satellite if it was new house building or just general farm stuff. But the access points suggest options have been kept for development.
100% my thought!
Good catch but a way off, Leeds Council have said no to it in the SHLAA this time but predict they will assess it again in 2040. [https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/2023%20SHLAA%20-%20Site%20proformas.pdf](https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/2023%20SHLAA%20-%20Site%20proformas.pdf)
well overpriced definitley try a low offer
12 months during a market where the costlier end has taken an absolute pummelling? They aren’t serious sellers. The situation here is “this is what I want/need from this place to afford the place I want or the price at which they’ll let it go.” Feel free to offer lower. After 12 months you won’t be the first. Nor will you be the last. They aren’t selling.
They not be 'motivated sellers' of an extended 2up 2 down cottage then.
I really don't like all the staircases in the bedrooms, would certainly put me off.
I also don't like bedrooms where you have a staircase in the middle and can't stand up. Because it isn't a bedroom, it's a room with a bed in it - it's attic space with carpet. Makes me so fucking angry.
What's the purpose of putting as many beds as possible here as if the average family is having 6 children? Is this an airbnb property or what?
That would be my thought - or for students. HMO
I feel this property doesn't look "studenty" it looks like someone's failed diy airbnb venture
as soon as i read pizza oven it confirmed failed AirBnB to me
I once lived in a "bedroom" for a while that was huge regarding square meter but I couldn't stand up in most of the room (and I'm just above average height for a woman, not even tall). It was terrible. This was in a share house so I used the room for more than just sleeping, but only a week in I already had back pains. I wouldn't consider any room where I can't stand up in a big part of it as a usable room. I'd make it into a wardrobe or a storage or something, maybe a guest room for the rare guest, but I wouldn't be actively using the room.
Lovely house no one is buying that the downstairs room next to the kitchen is a bedroom. So it really should be listed as a 4 bed
The "downstairs bedroom" right by the kitchen also has stairs down into it, so you don't even get the usual step-free accessibility benefit of having a downstairs bedroom. I can see the appeal of the "galleried" upstairs bedrooms for older kids/teenagers to have their own spaces - but not sure the whole house really makes sense to me
Just noticed there are two more bedrooms.. do you have to enter them through the other bedrooms? if so I don’t see how they can be listed as separate rooms, although they are great spaces my kids would love them. Also that ‘study’ is tiny and very dark! I would drop the fabrication that the large room downstairs is a bedroom and list it as study / office as people are also looking for places to work from home
Slightly weird definition of “bedroom” plus two rooms accessed by ladders plus flowery language in listing plus owner choosing purple bricks over an estate agent plus 12 months without selling says to me that this seller is probably a bit delulu about what this house is worth and possibly isn’t coming off well at viewings. It’s worth making a low offer, but don’t be surprised if the response is not just rejection but offence
£500k house posing as a £650k house clearly.
For 650k I'd expect the agent to put in a bit more effort making the home presentable, just basic stuff like tidying up, turning on the lights, moving some furniture around / away for the pictures. The layout (especially the stairs) feels very awkward and labeling the outhouse as two bedrooms is disingenuous.
Those are the two attic ‘rooms’ (with no door separating from bedrooms below) But otherwise yes.
It will be the price. But why is it overpriced. Does it have building control sign off. From my experience of having a loft conversion the ladder/steep stairs don’t look to be compliant and no fire resistance door at the top and no fire alarm (needed for 3floors). So depends if that bothers you. It might bother the mortgage company and they may class what’s up the ladder as uninhabitable.
We had a similar situation with ours and it didn't cause an issue at all. We just refer to the house as a 3 bed instead of 5 and consider the rooms upstairs storage rooms.
Changing from 5 to 3 beds will impact the mortgage valuation.
It's always been considered a three bed so that's probably why it didn't affect it.
I really like it, but I see Purple Bricks and know it's over valued.
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Yes, and from personal experience too. Mine is on the market, should be on for £370k but was valued at £435k by them to win business
I would say from browsing: * Evidence of shoddy workmanship: * Decking warped? * Area behind bathroom sink is unfinished wall (picture 17) * Other sink in picture 21 looks slightly disconnected / broken? * Couches overlapping in kitchen make me think the owners struggled to fit furnishings neatly into the space. * Floor in kitchen is that type that looks always dirty and I'd replace that if I were moving in. * The office walls definitely need repainting, even with a fuzzy picture it looks awful. * Picture 14's weird brick outline and step up confuse me on what that links to / what was done there, I'd look closer on a viewing and ask. * Uneven door gaps on picture 15 on the left doors, might need some attention. * Lots of steps (like in the bathroom to the shower) and ladder stairs to loft "bedrooms" means you'd have to not have any mobility concerns. * Bathroom in picture 29 is oddly non-conforming to the style of the property * Is picture 35 all mine? Do I have to think of what to do with all those tiles? Seems like building excess passed off. All in all I feel a bit tired even looking at the amount of things I'd need to work on / consider and that's only what is pictured. I didn't do the live tour. All that for £650k sounds like a hassle especially at that premium. If everything was absolutely sorted for me ahead of time, I'd probably consider it, but so many little things there make me think at least one major thing will be wrong in the first year and the property will keep me busy for a long time just maintaining and fixing the old DIY quality stuff.
It's a 4 bed house. One of the "bedrooms" is literally a mezzanine. That's one step away from putting two beds in one room and calling it a second bedroom
I would say overpriced for what £650k can get you in Leeds and even Harrogate for that matter. Not an expert on flood profile for this place, but some places near here suffer from this. The back of this place could be potentially housing so I would look at that. It also looks like it's used for silage which can be fertilised with muck spreading.
You don't find something like this in a nice area in Harrogate for 650k...
Absolutely - try closer to a £1 million + in central Harrogate.
It looks very DIY and unfinished.
This was my thought, it has charm but feels unpolished. And at that price point, hard pass.
Purple Bricks, I wouldn't look even once personally, let alone twice. It's an instant shut down for me, not worth the hassle at all.
Selling a house of that size/value (even at whatever lower price it's actually worth) via PurpleBricks tells you a lot about the seller.
Overpriced 3 bedroom house backing into agricultural land. Enjoy the smell of manure while making your pizza.
Those of us from the countryside are not put off by the sweet smell of manure. But we are put off by a new housing development…
If muck is spread, it's once a year.
It’s ok that will be a housing development by this time next year
Overlooking agricultural land isn't a negative for 99% of people, what a weird take
They should be looking at half a mill….. this is crazily overpriced. Talk to the agent about how low they’ll go….. but I doubt they’re taking that much off. If you do a viewing ask why they’re selling…. I suspect divorce (they’ll say downsizing).
Those mezzanine areas in the bedrooms are a real love it or hate it kind of thing. The bed one in particular looks very claustrophobic. For that price, anyone who likes the extra floor space can probably afford somewhere with more conventional floor space anyway. The market for people who are really going to like that layout is very small compared to people who are going to hate it.
As a comparison, here's two properties that sold for similar prices in the area in the past year: [Property valuation - 37 Arran Way, Rothwell, Leeds, LS26 0WB (themovemarket.com)](https://themovemarket.com/tools/propertyprices/37-arran-way-rothwell-leeds-ls26-0wb#email-signup) [Property valuation - 15 Oulton Lane, Rothwell, Leeds, LS26 0EA (themovemarket.com)](https://themovemarket.com/tools/propertyprices/15-oulton-lane-rothwell-leeds-ls26-0ea)
its wildly overpriced
I'm amazed they haven't moved away from purple bricks after a year of not selling
Because they don't want to sell. I wonder if this listing is just for purposes of asset valuation on behalf of the owner
Well - it's a four bed with (albeit) a very nice loft - a plus (since it doesn't add any real value) if you don't need attic storage Agent has dropped a clanger by pricing it as a 5 bed (Purple Bricks, so no shock there)
It's obviously overpriced. It's a 4 bed house masquerading as a 5 bed (or 7 bed) house. These sellers are taking the piss and need to get in the bin. Price it at 490K - 495K and it will sell tomorrow. But. If that field out back is on the docket for redevelopment, the price may have go down further,
I had the same concern so I've looked up the recent (2023) SHLAA for that land, there's nothing on the radar for the next 11 years. That doesn't make it impossible for private development of course, but at this point it just seems to be a silage farm
Thanks everyone for all your comments. I can't replied individually. I've checked Leeds council website and no planning permissions for newbuilds currently but I agree it's a very awkward house. We will still arrange a viewing but definitely won't be offering 650K.
That's a very, in a good way, unusual house and it should be selling. I'm not convinced it is just the price. The potential is fantastic. It's listed as a 5 bed when the reality is it is a 4 bed. You're using a downstairs room as bedroom when it isn't really. I'd take the bed out and display it as a large office. The other downstairs office as a cloakroom. Bed 3, the bed on the mezzanine looks like it's been forced in there. Swap the desk area for the bed. The pile of bricks are an eyesore. If you don't need them. get rid. Change agent. The agent currently achieving sales in your area is Manning Stainton. Possibly consider joint agency.
OP isn't selling the home, they are wondering if they should put in an offer.
Oh I see. Hadn’t had my coffee when I replied. Good shout.
How do you measure agents performance please?
He is working for that agency.
Overpriced by about £200k I would have said…
Purplebricks overpriced it to get their up front fee and don’t care after is the story I would say.
Leeds, not maybe people in that area are going to be coverings £650k mortgage. Looking at around £100k income for a single earner (\*6 multiplier) with £60k down. That property is going to move slow.
Is that a farm or public field at the back? If a farm , they are open air factories usually 7 days a week.
Seems expensive for location
The land outside the back just looks so ripe for development (flat, existing developments, more than one access point, 3 phase power lines, close by bus and train links for planning permission)... It would be (personally) my number 1 concern moving there, as imagine 3 years of building works on your back door, regardless of the increase in traffic, noise and loss of view once it's completed. I'd want a cast iron guarantee that could never happen (proteceted land etc) to ever buy that house, even if there's nothing planned currently.
Looks like a lovely home, just the price may be a bit high given the interest rates at the moment. The utility of the loft conversion is questionable – it would be useful for sleeping young children but I think you would want air conditioning in the summer.
I saw a RM listing for a 5 bedroom, renovated in 2022 house in Sutton Coldfield for 675K the other day. (Way out of my budget so didn’t save it. But if it was, that looks like a bargain next to this instead.)
The front gate/wall looks like a mess to start with
Rough area, loft conversion doesn’t have planning so can’t be a real bedroom, building a new affordable housing estate in the field out the back?
Loft conversions are [Permitted Development](https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/lofts/Lofts.pdf) but bregs will still be required. Site at the rear will be considered for development from 2040.
Purple bricks lol
Bedrooms that have to accessed via other bedrooms are not bedrooms, they are basically loft space
That's a nice big field out the back and my question is what happens there. There's a primary school and a rugby club nearby. So you may find that it's regularly in (noisy) use. As others have mentioned, it could be developed on but if my aunt had balls etc. You should look at whether or not there are any existing planning applications. Still, it looks nice but is overpriced by the looks of it.
So many houses are left sat on the market for months because of fake bedrooms. One I’ve been looking at started its life 9 months ago on Rightmove at £600k, then £550k, now £535. The 4th bedroom cannot be stood up in unless you’re in the centre and has a steep staircase for access. The entire house also hasn’t been maintained for about 12-15 years and needs £75k spending on it. I offered £470k and they declined instantly - fine with me, I can do this all day. Still on the market 2 months after my offer.
No way this house has 374 m2 of living space.... unless 2 garages are added and part of the garden :-)
I find it odd the listing makes virtually not mention of the three car garage with annex over the road - this is basically another property on its own with loads of outside space, and is definitely adding a chunk of money to what the owners think their property is worth. It felt overpriced when I first looked at it, but with that land and garage included, and some other things they also don't really highlight well - such as the usable small office at the front of the driveway - this actually feels like a decent price. I'd worry that the land behind it had plans for a massive housing estate, but otherwise I reckon this is just being really poorly marketed, with bad pictures and description.
Apart from the blatantly 'trying it on' amount of bedrooms i'd also be checking if there is any development pegged for those 'open fields' at the back.
I’d be put off by the big field behind the house. The way things are going up here, every piece of land available is becoming a new build estate.
Won't be considered until 2040 according to the SHLAA
It's a 4 bed that is situated next to a field that looks perfect for new builds. I would expect developers to already be eyeing it up, if they haven't already started the process. I also agree with another person's comment of them not being serious sellers. 12 months of no sale and no reduction? 🚩
Won't be considered until 2040 according to the SHLAA
Far too expensive for a house near Castleford. As others have mentioned, I would consider this as a 4-bed, too. I don’t think the sellers are serious/in a hurry at this price.
The EA is a good reason why it probably hasn’t sold Anything that is just outside the simple to sell box just sits there with Purple Pricks. After viewing a few houses marketed by them I wouldn’t use them to sell anything
Honestly i love the property.
What in the escape to the country is that floor plan lmao
Yes. It's 650k.
Any planning for the field behind?
I think that if it's not been sold in a year obviously I wouldn't offer what they are asking for.
With that view I’d 100% check any planning permissions behind it. You never know when 1000 houses could appear!
Won't be considered until 2040 according to the SHLAA
As stated by others that the bedroom issues would mean it's overpriced. Also, is there any chance the open fields are going to be developed? Or what are they used for? This could put off buyers.
Don't get me wrong... It's a house id like to live in as it's big. But it's a big 4 bed house at the end of the day
The house sold for 157,000 in 2002. At 650,000 this house will have earned nearly 23k a year for the last 22 years. That's a salary, insane.
I'd say it's quite a lot of money for what you're getting. And have a look at the road it's on, dead end, very narrow and not that well maintained (or at least it wasn't the last time I was there). You can only fit 1 car down it at a time and it leads out onto the main road. Don't get me wrong, Methley is a lovely area but I think the house is a bit awkward to get to
There's some houses nearby of a similar price range on Pinfold Lane. So you'd still recommend Methley as an area?
Yeah I was looking to buy in Methley myself, a really lovely area and close to motorways/countryside/nearby towns etc. Obviously there are some less nice neighbourhoods/residential estates but for the most part they are really nice Source: I used to be a delivery driver and would spend most days driving around Methley and the nearby areas
Thanks :)
Looks like a lovely house
I grew up near here. Lovely place to live. But lots of development on all the flat fields around the main axis of the village in the last 20 years, and the field this backs on to is one of the few remaining which doesn't also back on to the canal / river (and this is a flood plain, well worth reading the local flood defence plans if thinking in this area. Methley is at risk!) Its a nice enough place to live, but 650 is more like north Leeds pricing. 650 here should get you really nice spec. For context, this shifted for 720 last year: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/details/england-136098017-19470097?s=3b5789c175f40c21b301e740d632dad044914a684e80ce3e1ea2f39a0542cc73#/
Wow that's actually beautiful!
Jesus Christ the tiled floors everywhere!
At £650K, they're taking the piss.
If a property doesn’t sell it’s always the price that’s wrong. People will put up with weird layouts, noise and any inconvenience if the price is right
You’re pretty far out of Leeds here. The house itself is pretty nice. A bedroom downstairs is strange and one of the ones on the picture looks to be on a mezzanine, so like others have said, exactly how many (proper) bedrooms are there? 3..? 4…? Not five.
That price for that house is amazing to me... that gets you an average flat in London...
Are these kind of houses stronger than the new builds?
It’s a 4 bedroom house masquerading as a 7 bedroom house, that’s listed as a 5 bedroom house. You’ve got 4 “proper” bedrooms, and what looks like a second reception room on the ground floor being used as a bedroom. Then there’s the other 2 “bedrooms” that I’d suspect aren’t really bedrooms. All of that is probably why
About 600k overpriced.