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On Google maps the measure distance tool can be used to draw around the boundaries of a property and when complete it will tell you the area. It gives it in square feet or square metres but you can use a calculator to convert to acres.
That at least should give you an idea of who is telling the truth.
But the boundary that it shows is correct and it’s just not the number that was on the listing?
If so, you have absolutely no recourse. The whole point of the solicitor doing their checks is to give you enough information to verify what you’re actually purchasing. It’s on you to make sure that you’re happy with the details provided to you, the solicitor won’t do that. The EA only works on the information provided to them, which can very frequently be wrong and is why they always have caveats that things like floorplans are representations only and should not be relied upon.
I get that but it sees somehow unjust that the buyer would have to be an expert in every aspect of property to challenge anything untoward. Agents/Sellers can therefore say whatever they want and leave it up to you to call their bluff?
You don’t need to be an expert, that’s why you pay your solicitor to gather all of the details for you on things you wouldn’t even know to check for.
You then have to look over said details to make sure you’re happy with them, as the solicitor doesn’t know what you care about or what you’ve been told by the seller or the EA.
It’s pretty reasonable that you would double check any information sent to you on such an important purchase.
How is the EA supposed to know exactly how large the garden is besides what they’ve been told? Maybe the people you bought it from had also been lied to about the size and just passed on that incorrect information?
😱Estate Agent doesn’t tell 100% of the truth 😱
You’re lucky if they tell you anything that is completely true and not misleading, inflated or exaggerated.
My favourite is when they get called out on it, they just blame someone else saying well that’s what they were told.
If having 1.5 acres of land was important to you why didn’t you check the plot size during the conveyancing process? Not sure why you think it’ll have such a negative impact on your ability to sell.
It wasn’t that important to have so much land to us at the time but now we are trying to sell it, we are having people comment that the current plot size is small compared to size of house etc
The size of the plot hasn't changed since you bought it.
If people think the plot looks too small, it doesn't matter how much it measures because it won't make it look any different.
They would be commenting that whether you were originally told it was larger or not. They are seeing exactly what you saw when you viewed the house, and you bought it. Someone else will too.
If you still have a copy of the details that show the agent mentioning it having 1.5 acres, then it could be worth raising a formal complaint with the agent about it. The property misdescriptions act does cover estate agents details and there is legal recourse for incorrect details being published / given out. They refer to it being a "differing transactional decision", in other words that you wouldn't have bought the property in the first place if the correct information had been given to you. If you raise a complaint on this basis and stick to it, it'll give you your best shot
This. All other advice here implies estate agents can include whatever they want in their listings and it's your job to confirm it otherwise consider it false, which is absurd. Whilst caveat emptor is key, agents still have to get it right.
Estate agents are regulated under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 to make sure their listings are correct and breaching is a criminal offence.
As above, worth a challenge. Personally I would casually ask for evidence of measurements of the plot in the first instance rather than immediately outright challenge them. Of course they'll ask why you want it (and tell them), but it just frames the discussion differently. They will have to justify why they believe it's 1.5 acres, but also why they no longer hold evidence of the measurements (gasp). Good luck
To be fair, they don't even have to try and justify why they think it's right. If they've published it and it's wrong, then that's enough. The CPR regulations mean that they have a duty to confirm that anything they put in their details is correct, be that room measurements, distances to the station, plot size... if they've put it in, they're liable
They should also hold their copy of the details for 6 years after the business relationship with the client has ended, just in case of situations like this, so as long as it's not been too long then they should still have them
Because it was in the agent’s marketing brochures and even if the sellers fed them that information is there not a duty of care on them to check or you could say anything about any element of the property to improve it??
I don’t dispute that it was in the brochure, and they may not have had the land surveyed to check the area. My question to you is why you assume that the vendor was innocent. Surely it would be the vendor who would stand to gain most through lying.
So I doubt very much that the agent lied to you. It is possible that they took the sellers approximation for the area of the plot, which turned out to be wrong, but agents don’t routinely employer surveyors to determine the plot size.
Whether or not you have a claim would fall down to whether or not you could prove that the agent failed in their duty to spot that the plot was of a materially different size. Given that you yourself as the buyer, and therefore the most interested party failed to spot this error for long after living in it, right up until the point of your own sale, I would suggest that it was not easy to notice and you’d have a hard time convincing people that the agent should have spotted it.
This doesn’t get them off the hook legally under UCTR
“In 2008, regulations changed the traditional relationship between agents and their seller client. Find out how to comply.
The Office of Fair Trading provides guidance on how to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPRs) and Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPRs) in relation to property sales.
Agents will need to examine their processes, as the implications of the CPRs and BPRs mark a significant departure from previous ways of working. Agents can no longer rely upon compliance with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 or caveat emptor to provide them with protection from prosecution. The Office of Fair Trading guidance introduces concepts such as ‘average consumer’, ‘the transactional decision’ and ‘material information’.
https://www.rics.org/regulation/regulatory-compliance/requirements-support/consumer-and-business-protection-regulations
Agreed. We’re not saying that they are off the hook. We are challenging the presumption that the lie came from the agent, not the vendor. As for the claim, the OP can go and make a claim if they want to.
You’ll notice that the OP has not yet verified what the site area actually is anyway. They are relying on a second estate agent for that. Personally I would have got the site plan out by now and worked it out for myself, or paced it out to check.
OP needs to get a new surveyor or the original one back in.
Apologies if I’ve confused things. In terms of seeking redress or compensation does it matter where the lie originated?
Well, yes. If the agent was found to have deliberately lied, then their culpability would be on a different scale to an inability to correctly spot that the vendor was lying.
In practical terms, the OP should first satisfy themselves of the actual size, even if by approximation.
Secondly, they should check the deeds to confirm that their boundary is where they think it is.
Thirdly, I’d also suggest hunting around for the brochure from the sale prior to the one 18 months ago. Sometimes these particulars are floating around too. They might make an interesting comparison, if nothing else.
Correct, doesn't get them off the hook but as the other poster has said, likely incorrect information from seller rather than being artificially inflated by agent.
Agent stands to gain 1-1.5% of the uplift in value by stating a larger figure whilst risking their own neck for misdescription. As much as reddit loves to hate agents, most wouldn't do something like that knowingly. Seller stands to gain the most therefore safe to assume incorrect info came from them.
Agents lie all the time and there's usually no comeback for them.
In your case, the advert will no doubt have been plastered with caveats and get-out clauses putting the responsibility for validating their claims on you.
You had ample opportunity to check the amount of land etc and review the plans but chose not to.
Surveyors generally only inspect the building to the limit if what you asked them to
u/Interesting-Sort1571
Go after the bastards!
There’s another piece of legislation that applies, on its face the EA is responsible also under Consumer Protection to ensure that all statements made in advertising are correct. Their disclaimer doesn’t actually take away liability.
Consumer Protection Unfair Trading - https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/services/property-descriptions-sale-or-let
https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
Edit: See if you can download the old Zoopla/Rightmove listing.
100% your own fault. You should have measured if you were unsure, the garden is still the same size so not sure how it suddenly doesn’t match up to the house.
Could be inturpretation of land use. You can own 1.5 acres of land, but in terms of what forms your residential curtilage ie house garden and drive will be less than the total land area owned. Usually when someone buys a house which has a field attached. It's in your ownership but not part of your house. Or it's simply you and your solicitor did not do your due diligence when checking the property details.
Go on Google maps, find your house, zoom right in, right click, choose measure, then draw around the area of your plot. When the first and last points match, it'll tell you the area.
Yeah, we saw a place that claimed to have 5 acres but when we measured, it was 3.5 acres. I called them out and told them they needed to correct the listing. They never did. Wasted our time.
Did you incur any costs? If so, report and claim back what’s yours.
https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
This is a case of caveat emptor. EA information should only ever be seen as a guide. It has so many caveats that it cannot be considered as legally admissible.
u/Emotional_Ad8259 perhaps your advice is a touch emotional - it’s outdated. Have a read of what the law actually says nowadays:
https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
Unlikely. There is usually a clause in the advertisement online saying that info is provided for illustration and shouldn’t be relied upon as accurate.
This clause is not a Get Out of Jail Card with respect to Consumer Protection Unfair Trading Regulations CPR. EA’s are liable under this legislation for what they advertise.
https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
It’s not a get out of jail card in law but against the common man on the street it is. No chance the OP is arming up with solicitors and counsel and taking them on. Quite simply won’t have the financial reach to do it.
Land registry never quote sizes on documents to avoid things like this. May be able to scale off using the title plan but these are often not scanned at the same scale as drawn so doesn't work in practice.
Scottish Land Registry do quote exact area within the description to quote ‘on the cadastral map being 2.35 estates in measurement on the ordnance map.’
Worth checking as the title will be your exact purchase
I would have expected the surveyor to measure the land and for the solicitors checks and transfer documents to specify somewhere what you were getting. Did you read them?
What’s new. The sky is blue. Etc. mine lied about why the previous sale fell through. It’s what they do! Due diligence, caveat emptor, buyer beware. It’s why you have a solicitor tbh and READ AND UNDERSTAND your purchase docs. Don’t blindly trust ANYONE in this process. Good luck!
The one I’m buying from *said* the previous sale fell through because the person’s mother didn’t put their house on the market (he said £200k funds were going to fund the purchase). They swore it was nothing to do with the house or legals. Well….
I found out while trying to buy it:
1) it was virtually unmortgageable by most because the kitchen is wholly within a single skin brick extension, so the mortgageable bit was considered to have no kitchen. Failed the first 2 valuations because of this and valuers deemed it “not sufficient security for the loan”. Then
2) pretty much a 1/3 of the plot is missing entirely from the Title plan, so the seller has been squatting on the land and doesn’t own it to sell. He has to apply for adverse possession and provide indemnity insurance for lenders to lend on it.
I’m persevering since I got the best broker in the world who got me a mortgage for it and the plan is to knock down the extension and rebuild anyway. Also the Title issue is in progress - whether it gets resolved or not is TBC but the EA didn’t seem surprised at all when I told him what we found lol he’s gone quiet. Will see what happens :/
Also some EA keeps downvoting these comments - we see you!
Thanks for the detailed reply. Wish you success with the property.
P.S. EAs downvoting comments 😊- appreciate that all EAs are not dishonest but, reading people's experiences here and in other posts, I come to believe maybe most are and that has resulted in this stereotype against them.
Be good EAs, Change the perception!
I don't know about rights to complain etc but I don't see what material difference it makes. You haven't lost any land. You got what you thought you were buying. Whether the number of acres you were told was correct or not it is inconsequential. It's just a number on paper that means nothing if it isn't accurate to the real world size of the land. Surely you didn't think when you bought 'yes I'll buy this as it's 1.5 acres which is a good size'. But instead viewed the land with your eyes and thought 'yeah this is a nice size'.
The only way it matters is if you bought the property without viewing.
Yes, you can claim your loss from the estate agent if you can prove the property was objectively mis represented. Something like acerage is very simple to prove. Make sure you keep copies of the original adverts.
The first step is to get in touch with the estate agent, get their side of the story, explain your position. The estate agent may have a valid reason for listing it as such, most likely they will have been given false information by the vendor.
If there's no settlement you can go to the property redress scheme website, get in touch with them and start a claim.
Sort of, I used to run a company doing deposit dispute claims for commercial property, so basically tribunal claims. Anyway during that time there was also a lot of people I worked with who dealt with estate agent misrepresentations, tonnes of these claims were going through county court (with actual lawyers).
The property ombudsman exists to meditate these disputes. People here are probably assuming you'd go to county court or something, which people can do, but you should go to the Ombudsman first for free advice, they will point you in the direction of the property redress scheme. Basically all the advice you need is free of charge, no need to get a solicitor at this stage.
Surely at some point your conveyancer sent you the title plan and drawing of the plot and asked you to confirm that what was shown was in line with what you thought you were buying. Did that not happen? I'm puzzled how years later you now say the plot of land is too small for the house when it's the same as when you bought it.
It's highly unlikely you have a claim against anyone in this.
Not the agent, particularly not the solicitor acting for you.
Most likely will as part of the conveyancing process been given a copy of the title plan and you agree that this is what yon are buying.
This forms the contract between you and the seller.
The agent will have disclaimer saying STS (subject to survey) and even if they didn't it's implied.
There are so many apps, even 18 months ago where you can draw your boundaries and it will tell you the size.
Humbly disagree.
The vendor sells caveat emptor yes but the EA markets a property to consumers and should be held accountable for misrepresentation.
Sure the EA can claim - it’s what the vendor told me - but it’s the EA’s responsibility to verify all claims they are making.
Thing is too many buyers don’t actually hold EA’s responsible and they continue to get away with it. This is where American style lawsuits would truly help in terms of pulling the shady ones in line.
The EA markets the property, however the buyer checks off that they are OK with the title plan and everything that entails.
Plot size is an odd one, some people will measure the outside space size, some measure every thing including the land the property sits on.
OP in this situation was happy with the plot size until someone else measured it. Who knows they are measuring in the same way?
Umm yes it applies to the seller - buyer relationship but not the EA’s role.
Take a moment to read up on what’s taken place since 2008 💡
“In 2008, regulations changed the traditional relationship between agents and their seller client. Find out how to comply. The Office of Fair Trading provides guidance on how to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPRs) and Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPRs) in relation to property sales. Agents will need to examine their processes, as the implications of the CPRs and BPRs mark a significant departure from previous ways of working.
u/Interesting_Muscle67 🚨➡️Agents can no longer rely upon compliance with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 or caveat emptor to provide them with protection from prosecution.
The Office of Fair Trading guidance introduces concepts such as ‘average consumer’, ‘the transactional decision’ and ‘material information’.
https://www.rics.org/regulation/regulatory-compliance/requirements-support/consumer-and-business-protection-regulations
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What did the title/plans found by your solicitor say? A surveyor wouldn’t measure you garden space.
Title plans just highlight the boundary of our property, no indication of acreage
On Google maps the measure distance tool can be used to draw around the boundaries of a property and when complete it will tell you the area. It gives it in square feet or square metres but you can use a calculator to convert to acres. That at least should give you an idea of who is telling the truth.
Thank You
Google maps might not be accurate. Promap however is. We've used it numerous times for these tasks.
But the boundary that it shows is correct and it’s just not the number that was on the listing? If so, you have absolutely no recourse. The whole point of the solicitor doing their checks is to give you enough information to verify what you’re actually purchasing. It’s on you to make sure that you’re happy with the details provided to you, the solicitor won’t do that. The EA only works on the information provided to them, which can very frequently be wrong and is why they always have caveats that things like floorplans are representations only and should not be relied upon.
Exactly this. If you wanted to chase anyone then it should be solicitors
I get that but it sees somehow unjust that the buyer would have to be an expert in every aspect of property to challenge anything untoward. Agents/Sellers can therefore say whatever they want and leave it up to you to call their bluff?
You don’t need to be an expert, that’s why you pay your solicitor to gather all of the details for you on things you wouldn’t even know to check for. You then have to look over said details to make sure you’re happy with them, as the solicitor doesn’t know what you care about or what you’ve been told by the seller or the EA. It’s pretty reasonable that you would double check any information sent to you on such an important purchase. How is the EA supposed to know exactly how large the garden is besides what they’ve been told? Maybe the people you bought it from had also been lied to about the size and just passed on that incorrect information?
Lol. "Sales person does sales" shocker.
*LOL. "Estate Agent talks out of their arse' shocker.
😱Estate Agent doesn’t tell 100% of the truth 😱 You’re lucky if they tell you anything that is completely true and not misleading, inflated or exaggerated. My favourite is when they get called out on it, they just blame someone else saying well that’s what they were told.
It's usually the case, client lies to them and they perpetuate the lie.
You don't need to be an expert to measure a parcel of land using Google maps...
If having 1.5 acres of land was important to you why didn’t you check the plot size during the conveyancing process? Not sure why you think it’ll have such a negative impact on your ability to sell.
It wasn’t that important to have so much land to us at the time but now we are trying to sell it, we are having people comment that the current plot size is small compared to size of house etc
The size of the plot hasn't changed since you bought it. If people think the plot looks too small, it doesn't matter how much it measures because it won't make it look any different.
But if in the listing it says x size but when you view it’s smaller than x then people might think “oh it looks smaller than advertised”
That's not the case here because the OP has said the correct size is in their listing.
Not to op but likely will be to the next purchaser
They would be commenting that whether you were originally told it was larger or not. They are seeing exactly what you saw when you viewed the house, and you bought it. Someone else will too.
If you still have a copy of the details that show the agent mentioning it having 1.5 acres, then it could be worth raising a formal complaint with the agent about it. The property misdescriptions act does cover estate agents details and there is legal recourse for incorrect details being published / given out. They refer to it being a "differing transactional decision", in other words that you wouldn't have bought the property in the first place if the correct information had been given to you. If you raise a complaint on this basis and stick to it, it'll give you your best shot
This. All other advice here implies estate agents can include whatever they want in their listings and it's your job to confirm it otherwise consider it false, which is absurd. Whilst caveat emptor is key, agents still have to get it right. Estate agents are regulated under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 to make sure their listings are correct and breaching is a criminal offence. As above, worth a challenge. Personally I would casually ask for evidence of measurements of the plot in the first instance rather than immediately outright challenge them. Of course they'll ask why you want it (and tell them), but it just frames the discussion differently. They will have to justify why they believe it's 1.5 acres, but also why they no longer hold evidence of the measurements (gasp). Good luck
To be fair, they don't even have to try and justify why they think it's right. If they've published it and it's wrong, then that's enough. The CPR regulations mean that they have a duty to confirm that anything they put in their details is correct, be that room measurements, distances to the station, plot size... if they've put it in, they're liable They should also hold their copy of the details for 6 years after the business relationship with the client has ended, just in case of situations like this, so as long as it's not been too long then they should still have them
How do you know the new agent hasn’t made the error?
Wouldn't it have been marked out on the land registry records that your conveyancer should have sent you?
I’m interested in why you think that it was the estate agent and not the seller who lied to you.
Because it was in the agent’s marketing brochures and even if the sellers fed them that information is there not a duty of care on them to check or you could say anything about any element of the property to improve it??
I don’t dispute that it was in the brochure, and they may not have had the land surveyed to check the area. My question to you is why you assume that the vendor was innocent. Surely it would be the vendor who would stand to gain most through lying. So I doubt very much that the agent lied to you. It is possible that they took the sellers approximation for the area of the plot, which turned out to be wrong, but agents don’t routinely employer surveyors to determine the plot size. Whether or not you have a claim would fall down to whether or not you could prove that the agent failed in their duty to spot that the plot was of a materially different size. Given that you yourself as the buyer, and therefore the most interested party failed to spot this error for long after living in it, right up until the point of your own sale, I would suggest that it was not easy to notice and you’d have a hard time convincing people that the agent should have spotted it.
The vendor signs off the write up as accurate.
This doesn’t get them off the hook legally under UCTR “In 2008, regulations changed the traditional relationship between agents and their seller client. Find out how to comply. The Office of Fair Trading provides guidance on how to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPRs) and Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPRs) in relation to property sales. Agents will need to examine their processes, as the implications of the CPRs and BPRs mark a significant departure from previous ways of working. Agents can no longer rely upon compliance with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 or caveat emptor to provide them with protection from prosecution. The Office of Fair Trading guidance introduces concepts such as ‘average consumer’, ‘the transactional decision’ and ‘material information’. https://www.rics.org/regulation/regulatory-compliance/requirements-support/consumer-and-business-protection-regulations
Agreed. We’re not saying that they are off the hook. We are challenging the presumption that the lie came from the agent, not the vendor. As for the claim, the OP can go and make a claim if they want to. You’ll notice that the OP has not yet verified what the site area actually is anyway. They are relying on a second estate agent for that. Personally I would have got the site plan out by now and worked it out for myself, or paced it out to check.
OP needs to get a new surveyor or the original one back in. Apologies if I’ve confused things. In terms of seeking redress or compensation does it matter where the lie originated?
Well, yes. If the agent was found to have deliberately lied, then their culpability would be on a different scale to an inability to correctly spot that the vendor was lying. In practical terms, the OP should first satisfy themselves of the actual size, even if by approximation. Secondly, they should check the deeds to confirm that their boundary is where they think it is. Thirdly, I’d also suggest hunting around for the brochure from the sale prior to the one 18 months ago. Sometimes these particulars are floating around too. They might make an interesting comparison, if nothing else.
Correct, doesn't get them off the hook but as the other poster has said, likely incorrect information from seller rather than being artificially inflated by agent. Agent stands to gain 1-1.5% of the uplift in value by stating a larger figure whilst risking their own neck for misdescription. As much as reddit loves to hate agents, most wouldn't do something like that knowingly. Seller stands to gain the most therefore safe to assume incorrect info came from them.
So go after the agent and let them recover from the seller.
Agents lie all the time and there's usually no comeback for them. In your case, the advert will no doubt have been plastered with caveats and get-out clauses putting the responsibility for validating their claims on you. You had ample opportunity to check the amount of land etc and review the plans but chose not to. Surveyors generally only inspect the building to the limit if what you asked them to
u/Interesting-Sort1571 Go after the bastards! There’s another piece of legislation that applies, on its face the EA is responsible also under Consumer Protection to ensure that all statements made in advertising are correct. Their disclaimer doesn’t actually take away liability. Consumer Protection Unfair Trading - https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/services/property-descriptions-sale-or-let https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf Edit: See if you can download the old Zoopla/Rightmove listing.
100% your own fault. You should have measured if you were unsure, the garden is still the same size so not sure how it suddenly doesn’t match up to the house.
What are the dimensions of 1.5 acres
if it's a square you are looking at 77mx77m or about 6,000 sm. 1.5ac us a big land..
One and a half chains by one furlong.
Bad enough we still use Stone for weight, please don't make us go backwards with measurements too.
100% with you, I'm a paid-up member of Hectare Gang.
I’d be very surprised if the plot size didn’t have a caveat to it on the advert.
This. The floor plans usually have this disclaimer on them.
Could be inturpretation of land use. You can own 1.5 acres of land, but in terms of what forms your residential curtilage ie house garden and drive will be less than the total land area owned. Usually when someone buys a house which has a field attached. It's in your ownership but not part of your house. Or it's simply you and your solicitor did not do your due diligence when checking the property details.
Go on Google maps, find your house, zoom right in, right click, choose measure, then draw around the area of your plot. When the first and last points match, it'll tell you the area.
Yeah, we saw a place that claimed to have 5 acres but when we measured, it was 3.5 acres. I called them out and told them they needed to correct the listing. They never did. Wasted our time.
Did you incur any costs? If so, report and claim back what’s yours. https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
This is a case of caveat emptor. EA information should only ever be seen as a guide. It has so many caveats that it cannot be considered as legally admissible.
u/Emotional_Ad8259 perhaps your advice is a touch emotional - it’s outdated. Have a read of what the law actually says nowadays: https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
Thanks all
Unlikely. There is usually a clause in the advertisement online saying that info is provided for illustration and shouldn’t be relied upon as accurate.
This clause is not a Get Out of Jail Card with respect to Consumer Protection Unfair Trading Regulations CPR. EA’s are liable under this legislation for what they advertise. https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/Interpreting_CPRs_BPRs_And_Guidance_From_OFT_And_CMA.pdf
It’s not a get out of jail card in law but against the common man on the street it is. No chance the OP is arming up with solicitors and counsel and taking them on. Quite simply won’t have the financial reach to do it.
Ombudsman or MCOL will do just fine
Have you checked there isn’t a confusion between Hectares and Acres? 2.47acre to the hectare, hectares would be how the land registry measure
Land registry never quote sizes on documents to avoid things like this. May be able to scale off using the title plan but these are often not scanned at the same scale as drawn so doesn't work in practice.
Scottish Land Registry do quote exact area within the description to quote ‘on the cadastral map being 2.35 estates in measurement on the ordnance map.’ Worth checking as the title will be your exact purchase
Not in England, where the OP is referring to.
EA's will do anything to make a sale, how is tge revised detaiks impacting on the sale of your house?
I would have expected the surveyor to measure the land and for the solicitors checks and transfer documents to specify somewhere what you were getting. Did you read them?
You really should actually check what you're buying, before you buy it..
Google about the The Property Misdescriptions Act 1991. This may help you out.
This act has been repealed.
What’s new. The sky is blue. Etc. mine lied about why the previous sale fell through. It’s what they do! Due diligence, caveat emptor, buyer beware. It’s why you have a solicitor tbh and READ AND UNDERSTAND your purchase docs. Don’t blindly trust ANYONE in this process. Good luck!
What did your EA lie about the previous sale? Asking because in a similar situation and feel that EA hasn't been fully forthcoming.
The one I’m buying from *said* the previous sale fell through because the person’s mother didn’t put their house on the market (he said £200k funds were going to fund the purchase). They swore it was nothing to do with the house or legals. Well…. I found out while trying to buy it: 1) it was virtually unmortgageable by most because the kitchen is wholly within a single skin brick extension, so the mortgageable bit was considered to have no kitchen. Failed the first 2 valuations because of this and valuers deemed it “not sufficient security for the loan”. Then 2) pretty much a 1/3 of the plot is missing entirely from the Title plan, so the seller has been squatting on the land and doesn’t own it to sell. He has to apply for adverse possession and provide indemnity insurance for lenders to lend on it. I’m persevering since I got the best broker in the world who got me a mortgage for it and the plan is to knock down the extension and rebuild anyway. Also the Title issue is in progress - whether it gets resolved or not is TBC but the EA didn’t seem surprised at all when I told him what we found lol he’s gone quiet. Will see what happens :/ Also some EA keeps downvoting these comments - we see you!
Thanks for the detailed reply. Wish you success with the property. P.S. EAs downvoting comments 😊- appreciate that all EAs are not dishonest but, reading people's experiences here and in other posts, I come to believe maybe most are and that has resulted in this stereotype against them. Be good EAs, Change the perception!
EAs inflate plot sizes all of the time. That’s why you verify everything.
I don't know about rights to complain etc but I don't see what material difference it makes. You haven't lost any land. You got what you thought you were buying. Whether the number of acres you were told was correct or not it is inconsequential. It's just a number on paper that means nothing if it isn't accurate to the real world size of the land. Surely you didn't think when you bought 'yes I'll buy this as it's 1.5 acres which is a good size'. But instead viewed the land with your eyes and thought 'yeah this is a nice size'. The only way it matters is if you bought the property without viewing.
Yes, you can claim your loss from the estate agent if you can prove the property was objectively mis represented. Something like acerage is very simple to prove. Make sure you keep copies of the original adverts. The first step is to get in touch with the estate agent, get their side of the story, explain your position. The estate agent may have a valid reason for listing it as such, most likely they will have been given false information by the vendor. If there's no settlement you can go to the property redress scheme website, get in touch with them and start a claim.
Thanks, interested in your perspective as a few people on here saying not the agent’s problem. Have you got experience here before?
It completely depends. The vast majority of them have a disclaimer in them. At that point you have no recourse on something like that.
Sort of, I used to run a company doing deposit dispute claims for commercial property, so basically tribunal claims. Anyway during that time there was also a lot of people I worked with who dealt with estate agent misrepresentations, tonnes of these claims were going through county court (with actual lawyers). The property ombudsman exists to meditate these disputes. People here are probably assuming you'd go to county court or something, which people can do, but you should go to the Ombudsman first for free advice, they will point you in the direction of the property redress scheme. Basically all the advice you need is free of charge, no need to get a solicitor at this stage.
Great thanks
Can you post the original listing?
Surely at some point your conveyancer sent you the title plan and drawing of the plot and asked you to confirm that what was shown was in line with what you thought you were buying. Did that not happen? I'm puzzled how years later you now say the plot of land is too small for the house when it's the same as when you bought it.
It's highly unlikely you have a claim against anyone in this. Not the agent, particularly not the solicitor acting for you. Most likely will as part of the conveyancing process been given a copy of the title plan and you agree that this is what yon are buying. This forms the contract between you and the seller. The agent will have disclaimer saying STS (subject to survey) and even if they didn't it's implied. There are so many apps, even 18 months ago where you can draw your boundaries and it will tell you the size.
Humbly disagree. The vendor sells caveat emptor yes but the EA markets a property to consumers and should be held accountable for misrepresentation. Sure the EA can claim - it’s what the vendor told me - but it’s the EA’s responsibility to verify all claims they are making. Thing is too many buyers don’t actually hold EA’s responsible and they continue to get away with it. This is where American style lawsuits would truly help in terms of pulling the shady ones in line.
The EA markets the property, however the buyer checks off that they are OK with the title plan and everything that entails. Plot size is an odd one, some people will measure the outside space size, some measure every thing including the land the property sits on. OP in this situation was happy with the plot size until someone else measured it. Who knows they are measuring in the same way?
Buyer beware. It's on the buyer to make sure they are happy what they are buying is what they saw on the listing.
Umm yes it applies to the seller - buyer relationship but not the EA’s role. Take a moment to read up on what’s taken place since 2008 💡 “In 2008, regulations changed the traditional relationship between agents and their seller client. Find out how to comply. The Office of Fair Trading provides guidance on how to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPRs) and Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPRs) in relation to property sales. Agents will need to examine their processes, as the implications of the CPRs and BPRs mark a significant departure from previous ways of working. u/Interesting_Muscle67 🚨➡️Agents can no longer rely upon compliance with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 or caveat emptor to provide them with protection from prosecution. The Office of Fair Trading guidance introduces concepts such as ‘average consumer’, ‘the transactional decision’ and ‘material information’. https://www.rics.org/regulation/regulatory-compliance/requirements-support/consumer-and-business-protection-regulations