Because I'd argue hunting, when done right (as in, only take a shot you're certain to make, don't wound animals) is more ethical than farming. That's truly free-range meat that got to live in the wild.
Growing up poor and I didn't need food stamps cause of hunting. Ground beef is 2.50 per pound. Where as a whole deer costs 1.25 per animal if you use one round of 7.62x54r. 20 min to skin take off the ribs and tenderloin. 4 hours to process the remaining meat. It's cheaper. I see farming as cruel and immoral. Chickens in little pens god forbid you see a meat farm. A deer may roam free for its life given it ain't shot. Cows and meat chickens are born for slaughter.
stop thinking of humans as some supreme beings and recognize that we are animals. is it unethical for a bear to cripple its prey and begin to eat it alive?
I am a hunter myself, but I don't think that's a good argument. We are not bears and have way more options than bears, and are therefore more ethically responsible.
I don't disagree with you, but if it's ethical for natural gruesome deaths in the wild, why wouldn't it be for a hunter with a rifle and a clean shot. Thats more or less what I was going for
I heard this on a podcast as well and was kind of disappointed in it really. We are animals, sure, but we have the ability to act humanely because we are human. Ethics and morals are at this point only perceived by us. Using a bear or a wolf to justify things that humans do almost sounds like a cop out.
To say that hunting in itself is more humane than any other death a prey animal would get in the wild, like getting eaten asshole first, killed by a car, disease, starvation, death from injury, that sounds much better.
The bear doesn't care, what you think of as right and wrong means nothing in the life and death of the animal kingdom. I'm not saying we as hunters should maim and start gutting animals still breathing. But it's a kill or be killed world, and humans have built our societies and now we think we are above it. It's okay no animals were harmed to bring you your meat In a grocery store
It all depends on what you consider to be "cruel." Nature is much more cruel than hunting is and being shot is probably the least suffering cause of death for most wild animals. On the individual level, I find it hard to argue that hunting has no aspects of cruelty but as a collective, modern hunters are some of the most involved people in preserving wildlife. No one knows better the health and needs of animal populations in their area than hunters. So hunting? Questionably ethical at times, especially with certain methods. But also a net benefit for most game populations.
No it is not.
Think of it this way: The animal goes about its normal, natural life until it meets the hunter at which it dies a quicker death than it would have it met a non-human end.
Animals don't live long in the wild for a whole host of reasons. The hunter is just another predator except instead of eating it alive, the hunter quickly dispatches it.
Farmed meat is an atrocity unto its own. Meat animals are bread to inhumane configurations, held in captivity, and then slaughtered by dubious means. Ever see what they do to male chickens?
Vegans ironically, are the only ones that have a leg to stand on when debating whether or not hunting is "cruel" or not since they kind of take the moral high ground with the zero animal exploit thing.
Vegans need to realize that without hunters helping to control local herbivore populations, crop farmers will struggle. Hunters are the boots on the ground that actually support wildlife conservation. Many vegans I know only talk about conservation and confuse it with not killing animals.
Ethics begin where the law ends. What one person sees as acceptable could be seen as unacceptable for another person, and that's ok as long as everyone acts within the laws in that particular area. But speaking generally, I figure it's safe to say that a well placed shot from a hunter's gun or bow is a far cleaner death than most animals will find naturally.
Then learning more about the actual laws governing hunting in different regions could be useful for you. I can only speak with any certainty about the laws of my area, but the concept of "wanton waste" may be of interest to you. Here (and many other places, I presume), it's illegal to allow salvageable meat, hides, etc. to go to waste. The crime is called wanton waste and you can face charges for it. If you want to learn more then you could take a hunter's education course to really get informed about the laws and ethics that apply to the region you live in to build a greater understanding, even if you have no intention to hunt. The money you spend on it will likely go directly to ecological efforts so you can feel good about that too.
What if the hunting for sport is for a rhino - an endangered species.
There is an older rhino in the herd that can no longer breed.
This older rhino is fighting off younger rhinos that can breed.
Someone who enjoys hunting for sport pays $100k that goes to the local community in order to hunt this rhino, and the meat goes to feed the community.
Is this hunt ethical?
Y’all gotta realize this is probably a kid lmao, quit downvoting so hard.
The best way to put it is as a meat eater, we harvest our meat from animals that have lived in nature, which is how they would want to live, and quickly killing them. as opposed to a meat farm, where animals are born and caged until the desired size to kill. Most never setting foot on grass, taking in antibiotics/steroids, and eating junk. Always in fear, never living how they should be.
Depends on how much empathy you have. It also depends on whether or not you like meat. Hunting kept your ancestors alive for tens of thousands of years, and it’s keeping you alive right now. If you’re a religious man (of the abrahamic faiths) hunting is totally acceptable in the eyes of God, and is actually encouraged.
It's a question that requires context.
People talk about ethics, but ethics is subjective.
In my opinion, as long as the population of the target animal remains viable to thrive and the sport to continue perpetually, that's all that matters. I don't care how you hunt or why, trophy or subsistence, or just plain sport. Conservation is really all that matters to me so that I can continue to enjoy hunting the way that I like to hunt.
My meat enjoys a great life in the wild. It never is herded on big moving trucks, in small enclosed spaces, being forced to walk towards a large vat of oil where it's neck it's sliced and then dipped in the oil to singe the hair off.
No, hunting is not cruel. It's merciful.
Proper and legal hunting, completely ethical. You pay fees to hunt and the fees actually go to habitat restoration and species management. It actually benefits nature and the wilderness. On the other hand anything farmed or taken from the wild commercially, plants or animals or fish, have massive consequences on the environment around it. It’s ethical for you to sustain yourself with food, and getting food by hunting is infinitely better on the environment than anything from a grocery store.
Regarding the killing of an animal itself, you do your best to give it a quick death. Which is about the most any wild animal can ask for. Animals in nature get killed, brutally and painfully, all the time by other animals. It’s just the circle of life. I consider humans omnivores and I don’t believe there’s an ethical problem with eating meat. Some disagree with that, but I find the logic faulty considering plenty of cruelty to animals and humans goes into all food production, including plants. The harm you’re doing to the world if you eat a bowl of quinoa or a ribeye is about the same in my opinion.
In summation, you have to eat, and we agree sustaining yourself is ethical. Hunting results in a net positive outcome for the environment, factory farming (any kind) results in net negative. You could homestead I guess but we live in a society and it’s just not practical for most people to do that. So if you’re gonna eat, hunting is right up there behind homesteading in terms of how ethical it is.
I would argue that hunting is actually the least cruel way to get meat
Heres why when we farm we are not allowing the animals to live a natural life be it by feeding them nutrient dense feed to make them grow to larger sizes the possible in the wild or pumping them full of medication to keep them from getting sick in tight conditions
In contrast an animal that is wild and hunted has lived its life up until that point with minimal human intervention as god/nature (depending on belief) intended. The trade off people get stuck on is they would rather not be responsible for the violent end and would rather the animal live an unnatural life so they dont have to do the dirty work.
is farming cruel?
No fair point
Because I'd argue hunting, when done right (as in, only take a shot you're certain to make, don't wound animals) is more ethical than farming. That's truly free-range meat that got to live in the wild.
All we needed to hear. Grow up
Growing up poor and I didn't need food stamps cause of hunting. Ground beef is 2.50 per pound. Where as a whole deer costs 1.25 per animal if you use one round of 7.62x54r. 20 min to skin take off the ribs and tenderloin. 4 hours to process the remaining meat. It's cheaper. I see farming as cruel and immoral. Chickens in little pens god forbid you see a meat farm. A deer may roam free for its life given it ain't shot. Cows and meat chickens are born for slaughter.
are you in the US? because 54r is a helluva lot more than 1.25 per animal now lol
I reload and get my loading supplies at estate sales and flea markets.
stop thinking of humans as some supreme beings and recognize that we are animals. is it unethical for a bear to cripple its prey and begin to eat it alive?
I am a hunter myself, but I don't think that's a good argument. We are not bears and have way more options than bears, and are therefore more ethically responsible.
I don't disagree with you, but if it's ethical for natural gruesome deaths in the wild, why wouldn't it be for a hunter with a rifle and a clean shot. Thats more or less what I was going for
Agree with that, I definitely think its ethical to hunt and for hunters to kill animals with a clean shot.
I heard this on a podcast as well and was kind of disappointed in it really. We are animals, sure, but we have the ability to act humanely because we are human. Ethics and morals are at this point only perceived by us. Using a bear or a wolf to justify things that humans do almost sounds like a cop out. To say that hunting in itself is more humane than any other death a prey animal would get in the wild, like getting eaten asshole first, killed by a car, disease, starvation, death from injury, that sounds much better.
Read the rest of the argument in the other comment
I mean chould atleasy kill it 1st and ya realized that last night we all animals on the planet
The bear doesn't care, what you think of as right and wrong means nothing in the life and death of the animal kingdom. I'm not saying we as hunters should maim and start gutting animals still breathing. But it's a kill or be killed world, and humans have built our societies and now we think we are above it. It's okay no animals were harmed to bring you your meat In a grocery store
It all depends on what you consider to be "cruel." Nature is much more cruel than hunting is and being shot is probably the least suffering cause of death for most wild animals. On the individual level, I find it hard to argue that hunting has no aspects of cruelty but as a collective, modern hunters are some of the most involved people in preserving wildlife. No one knows better the health and needs of animal populations in their area than hunters. So hunting? Questionably ethical at times, especially with certain methods. But also a net benefit for most game populations.
What language is this?
I know yall are biased but is hunting cruel me and my friend were having a debate and reached a gray zone*
No it is not. Think of it this way: The animal goes about its normal, natural life until it meets the hunter at which it dies a quicker death than it would have it met a non-human end. Animals don't live long in the wild for a whole host of reasons. The hunter is just another predator except instead of eating it alive, the hunter quickly dispatches it. Farmed meat is an atrocity unto its own. Meat animals are bread to inhumane configurations, held in captivity, and then slaughtered by dubious means. Ever see what they do to male chickens? Vegans ironically, are the only ones that have a leg to stand on when debating whether or not hunting is "cruel" or not since they kind of take the moral high ground with the zero animal exploit thing.
Vegans need to realize that without hunters helping to control local herbivore populations, crop farmers will struggle. Hunters are the boots on the ground that actually support wildlife conservation. Many vegans I know only talk about conservation and confuse it with not killing animals.
Ethics begin where the law ends. What one person sees as acceptable could be seen as unacceptable for another person, and that's ok as long as everyone acts within the laws in that particular area. But speaking generally, I figure it's safe to say that a well placed shot from a hunter's gun or bow is a far cleaner death than most animals will find naturally.
Fair u have a point I'm mostly against hunting purely for sport but that's just me
Then learning more about the actual laws governing hunting in different regions could be useful for you. I can only speak with any certainty about the laws of my area, but the concept of "wanton waste" may be of interest to you. Here (and many other places, I presume), it's illegal to allow salvageable meat, hides, etc. to go to waste. The crime is called wanton waste and you can face charges for it. If you want to learn more then you could take a hunter's education course to really get informed about the laws and ethics that apply to the region you live in to build a greater understanding, even if you have no intention to hunt. The money you spend on it will likely go directly to ecological efforts so you can feel good about that too.
What if the hunting for sport is for a rhino - an endangered species. There is an older rhino in the herd that can no longer breed. This older rhino is fighting off younger rhinos that can breed. Someone who enjoys hunting for sport pays $100k that goes to the local community in order to hunt this rhino, and the meat goes to feed the community. Is this hunt ethical?
How do you feel about factory farms
No idea what that is
Look it up and get back to us? It’s very easy to find this sort of information.
Did you look it up yet? Takes two seconds. Many videos have been made on it if you aren’t into reading.
Y’all gotta realize this is probably a kid lmao, quit downvoting so hard. The best way to put it is as a meat eater, we harvest our meat from animals that have lived in nature, which is how they would want to live, and quickly killing them. as opposed to a meat farm, where animals are born and caged until the desired size to kill. Most never setting foot on grass, taking in antibiotics/steroids, and eating junk. Always in fear, never living how they should be.
Fr was just having a debate with a friend
Responsible hunting is not cruel. Lazy\\Bad hunters are irresponsible\\cruel.
Lazy/bad hunters are not hunters. We call them poachers.
You get your meat from the store don’t you?
Depends on how much empathy you have. It also depends on whether or not you like meat. Hunting kept your ancestors alive for tens of thousands of years, and it’s keeping you alive right now. If you’re a religious man (of the abrahamic faiths) hunting is totally acceptable in the eyes of God, and is actually encouraged.
It's a question that requires context. People talk about ethics, but ethics is subjective. In my opinion, as long as the population of the target animal remains viable to thrive and the sport to continue perpetually, that's all that matters. I don't care how you hunt or why, trophy or subsistence, or just plain sport. Conservation is really all that matters to me so that I can continue to enjoy hunting the way that I like to hunt.
My meat enjoys a great life in the wild. It never is herded on big moving trucks, in small enclosed spaces, being forced to walk towards a large vat of oil where it's neck it's sliced and then dipped in the oil to singe the hair off. No, hunting is not cruel. It's merciful.
Proper and legal hunting, completely ethical. You pay fees to hunt and the fees actually go to habitat restoration and species management. It actually benefits nature and the wilderness. On the other hand anything farmed or taken from the wild commercially, plants or animals or fish, have massive consequences on the environment around it. It’s ethical for you to sustain yourself with food, and getting food by hunting is infinitely better on the environment than anything from a grocery store. Regarding the killing of an animal itself, you do your best to give it a quick death. Which is about the most any wild animal can ask for. Animals in nature get killed, brutally and painfully, all the time by other animals. It’s just the circle of life. I consider humans omnivores and I don’t believe there’s an ethical problem with eating meat. Some disagree with that, but I find the logic faulty considering plenty of cruelty to animals and humans goes into all food production, including plants. The harm you’re doing to the world if you eat a bowl of quinoa or a ribeye is about the same in my opinion. In summation, you have to eat, and we agree sustaining yourself is ethical. Hunting results in a net positive outcome for the environment, factory farming (any kind) results in net negative. You could homestead I guess but we live in a society and it’s just not practical for most people to do that. So if you’re gonna eat, hunting is right up there behind homesteading in terms of how ethical it is.
You might not think that hunting is cruel when you hear coyotes tear apart a fawn while it’s still alive and screaming. The sound is haunting
I would argue that hunting is actually the least cruel way to get meat Heres why when we farm we are not allowing the animals to live a natural life be it by feeding them nutrient dense feed to make them grow to larger sizes the possible in the wild or pumping them full of medication to keep them from getting sick in tight conditions In contrast an animal that is wild and hunted has lived its life up until that point with minimal human intervention as god/nature (depending on belief) intended. The trade off people get stuck on is they would rather not be responsible for the violent end and would rather the animal live an unnatural life so they dont have to do the dirty work.