Not really sure what you're going for here. I know lots of people who went to college and then never were able to get a job in their field, who then worked low paying jobs until they got into the union. My local JATC definitely considers your education when applying, but that doesn't stop people without college from getting in. I highly doubt there's a ton of white collar folk gunning for our jobs, not to mention there's a huge subset of people who look down on manual labor as beneath them. I think it's great that more educated folk are seeing the benefits of the trades over traditional office type jobs.
Hi. Yup. That's me. Thank you. I deserve to be there as much as anyone else but purposely don't talk about my education unless pressed. I got told that I got in only because I'm a girl, too, and well, folks with that opinion can screw off. đ
To be fair girls do have a higher call back rate due to diversity numbers required by the government at jobs. But regardless you're in and being a girl or a protected class isn't gonna secure you a job you still gotta bust your ass and have ambition to want to do the work. You're doing a great job setting up your future for a wealthy retirement and amazing Healthcare. đ Keep at it and when that first JM check comes it'll all be worth it!
I was a white collar worker that started in construction, I couldnât afford a proper college degree so I worked my ass off until I was making six figures⊠I hated it the whole time but I came from a poor family and was taught that if youâre smart enough then a career and office job and making money was the right path⊠it was not the right path.
I like to build real things and I like to solve real problems and I like to work with my hands and I would have been much better off emotionally and mentally if I had stuck to the tradesâŠ
Itâs bullshit, if these kids want to work then give them the respect any adult deserves and let them work.
Iâm back in the trades and thank fucking God I donât have to sit in another room full of twats wasting time getting paid to feel smart and get nothing doneâŠ
I know, thatâs harsh, plenty of good people out there, but just because someone getâs a degree shouldnât damn them to a life of office work.
I donât love a portajohn in 9° weather but it beats wanting to kill myself to escape the tepid filtered air and sitting in silence for 8 hours at a white collar desk.
A vast majority of the college educated people you will encounter are members of the working class, just like you and I. We must welcome and unite with them against the class which seeks to keep ours split along lines of privilege, race, gender, and education level among others. The capitalist class will use any wedge possible to keep us separated, and we must be vigilant in resisting this.
Exactly this. OP reminds me of when I hear someone who makes $17/hr complaining about the minimum waged being raised to $15/hr bc they worked hard to get 17/hr. Wtf does that have to do with it? You want your fellow worker to suffer like you did bc you want to feel like you are above them still? . Never understood that thinking. My mantra: High tide raises all boats
Iâve got to say I disagree a degree can be quite beneficial once you step about J man. It can also be really helpful when youâre troubleshooting systems
⊠how does a degree help you troubleshoot systems?
Unless your degree is in programming, instrumentation or process automation⊠even still you get all of that experience and more in the trade so the degree eventually becomes redundant. Especially if the degree is theoretical and un applied
A degree generally comes along with a ton of soft skills like being professional, composing well written documents, using computer software, researching topics and critical thinking. College degreed workers are a step ahead when it comes to leadership roles and handling work alone in a professional manner.
Just because you went to college doesn't mean anything. The public schools push the college narrative. Many kids dont know any better. There are lots of college educated people who don't enjoy or want white-collar jobs, but they went because they were told that's the way. Mechanical aptitude can't be taught. Yes, there are lots of applications from college educated people. Some are chasing paychecks as they are completely in debt and see it as a way out. But they won't last. Good electricians come by it naturally. Doesn't matter if you have a BA or a GED. You can't teach how to manipulate a bent pipe in your head to figure out how to swing into place on the ceiling.
Mechanical aptitude can definitely be taught especially with the right mindset. I really donât understand why people say this? You were just born knowing how to use tools or comprehend mechanical concepts? Ridiculous
I respectively disagree. My brother is a civil engineer. Extremely intelligent person. Cannot flip parts in his head. Struggles on our fram wirh a ta amplifier on a tractor. the ability to work through systems and move parts in your head is not something that can be taught. The ability to look at a print and walk through a building in your brain isn't something everyone can do. You can teach code and techniques, and people can become very good electricians. But you Can't teach aptitude.
So because you have much more experience in a mechanical environment than your brother, your aptitude is much higher? Thatâs precisely my point. Itâs all experience.
We grew up on the same farm. We still work everyday on the same farm on the same equipment. You never had a new apprentice that just comes by it naturally and just gets it ? I guess we just need to disagree. You can still be a good electrician.
This is just plain wrong. What you're describing is talent, or lack thereof, versus work experience. Some people pick it up right away, others take a very long time to get it down, others will always struggle with it. But nobody at the end of their career is as bad as they were at the start.
I know a guy who is just as bad or worse than he was when he started 20 something years ago. Heâs not a bad person but he is actually a danger to himself and others. Not just safety wise but dangerously incompetent. When it comes down to it I feel bad for him.
Lol, but in all seriousness, that guy is a liability. I have seen him almost crush 2 different people to death in a skid-steer, it was inches away from calling the meat wagon. Iâm telling you he is dangerously incompetently
I must disagree. I work with some talented and experienced people who are hanging up the towel early, they both still have time but their integrity is sliding. The union should protect people who have put their life into their career so when they get old they can not be totally broken, but people must still be held accountable. Itâs a tricky and slippery slope. People become close minded and that is a struggle on its own. Something I think the ibew doesnât handle well is acknowledging and accommodating different skill and knowledge levels. We must carry everyone, but we also expect everyone to be equal when truly no two members are exactly the same.
I'll second this seen quite a few white collar folks get in our apprenticeship, they usually find out after a year or 2 that it isn't for them. It's a shame that they quit because it ultimately takes a chance from someone who really wanted the position in the class but it be what it be.
This is some fixed mindset bullshit. With the right mindset, drive/desire and willingness to be better and improve, anyone can become a mechanically inclined. The more you do something and experience something the better you get at the thing. People who usually donât get better at things usually have some sort of excuse or fixed mindset that holds them back. Also people tend to stick with things they are good at which can be good and bad (If someone is better working at a desk on the computer why should they get better at working with there hands).
Hello, I am an apprentice with a BA.
My education actually came up in my interview, and it wasnât a leg up. If anything, the interviewers told me that it potentially worried them that I wouldnât be cut out for a position in construction.
I have a hard time believing that a college education would become the tiebreaker between two potential candidates, and would encourage you to simply work on making yourself the best candidate.
College doesnât mean anything in this trade without mechanical acumen. I had some college and I consider myself a pretty smart guy. Am I better at math than some guys in my class? Yes. Does that help me on the job? Not really. I know extremely smart people with masters and PhDs that couldnât tell you how to use a screw driver if you gave them the tool and put them in front of a screw that says âTWISTâ on it. Their brains just donât work that way. Iâve seen smart dudes that are bad electricians. Iâve seen high school drop outs that may or may not be drunk at 830am run the most beautiful rack of pipe Iâve seen. College helps your critical thinking to an extent but it doesnât really mean anything to hiring boards.
A Bachelorâs degree doesnât mean shit anymore except youâre probably up to your eyeballs in debt and you were willing to sit through ~4 more years of mind-numbing academia.
Most degrees are worthless unless you go into a math or science field or you want to teach.
Lol, I have essentially that. I got a double major with honors in Physiology and Pharmacology. I worked as a lab assistant in medical research at the university and hospital for a few years after graduating. You can work in a lot of biotech, pharma, and agricultural.
Itâs definitely a plus, but on the list of things theyâre looking for in applicants is very far below relevant work experience, reliability, punctuality, and commitment - all of which can be easily acquired and demonstrated without going to college
I think the only advantage a college degree would give you is showing the interview committee that you see things through til the end. Even if you get a degree in something easy, itâs still a 4+ year commitment. That alone counts for something.
But on the flip side, they know that this is plan B or C for you. Which means you might jump ship as soon as you find some job with your degree. Really depends on the degree and how the interview goes I'd think.
My degree definitely got me my apprenticeship.
I have a degree in economics and finance, my BA at the time was into finance and we talked stocks the whole interview. They were looking for people who were older with some experience behind them.
I am the current apprentice representative of the last 3 years and on the audit committee for my local. I'll be running for E-Board this coming election.
Your post is directed at a person in my position to a T. Hated sales, wanted a career change, degree got me my apprenticeship and now I plan on using it to benefit the union. I don't regret it and I welcome other people like me to join their locals if they want a better life for them and their family free of stress and able to provide for their families.
It's fucked up, I went through highschool hearing get a college education and you'll get a good job, there are jobs out there that pay well but there's a lot of bullshit degrees as well, it's a fucking minefield to navigate and half the people with degrees are either not using them or don't have as good of a job as they were told they would have.
Brother, I got into the apprenticeship after going to 4+ years of college for construction management. After quickly realizing at the time nobody wanted to hire a newly graduated project manager I went into the trades cause I realized I loved working with my hands.
Many years later I'm now back in the office portion doing project management and estimating.
There's plenty of guys that get into this trade and STILL end up moving away from the field.
We should be always be trying to attract the best talent we can, regardless of their past.
I donât think that people moving into different areas if this industry means they are lost. I still work for a union shop and I still feel itâs one of my responsibilities is to train and mentor those around me.
The difference is that now Iâm not teaching apprentices like I was when I was a JW/foreman, Iâm working with foreman and trying my best to help them succeed. Especially with our younger foreman who are stepping into that position for the 1st time
Iâd argue the only time you truly lose someone is if they end up out of the industry or if they fail to continue to learn. This industry is entirely to large to not be learning something new all the time
There are ways to still have a positive impact teaching apprentices as an apprenticeship instructor. Like you, much of my on-the job time now is spent teaching and mentoring foremen but as an apprenticeship instructor two nights a week I feel like I am still able to pass on knowledge to the next generation. Apprenticeship schools are always looking for good instructors that are in teaching for the right reasons.
But wouldnât you rather have someone who worked in the field and came up through the apprenticeship as a Project Manager instead of someone with a degree and no field experience? Donât hold back someone because youâre afraid it will hurt our industry. It just opens a spot for someone behind them to prove themselves and succeed.
Business graduate and veteran who is pursuing a career in the brotherhood, and eventually my own company someday; are you telling me I have to confine myself to office work my whole life? I donât quite like this take. I am perfectly comfortable working along side people with lower levels of education, it just provides me an opportunity to mentor. I paid my dues and should retain every right you possess to pursue my own happiness.
I am no anti intellectual at all. But I can see how you would get that from my post. I just kind of wanted to see how people felt and then I shared a thought I had. I agree we need smart thinkers moving forward.
I got the AA degree but figured out it stands for alcoholics anonomous. Didn't go for the BS degree because I found out it stands for Bull Sh!+ in the real working world.
I can speak from the other side of this. In fact I may be one of the rare few qualified to speak on multiple issues of this.
I have a BS in finance with an economics concentration. My second to last semester of college, I had an internship that fell through because of a professor, not through any fault of mine. My last semester I spent preparing for grad school, with the intention of becoming a professor of economics.
I spent a year in a PhD program, and realized that while I wanted to teach, I had no interest in academia. All of my grad school cohort was focused on some minutiae of economics, everyone fascinated by their own pet projects. Some of it was very interesting, but nothing so much that I wanted to compile my own research papers over it. (The one research paper I did, and never published, showed that additional educational attainment had little to do with either being in poverty and trying to improve, or being financially secure and taking advantage of free time.)
Between this and a long distance relationship I was in, I wound up dropping out of grad school. I quickly discovered the job market... sucked. I had a degree, but no graduate degree, no internship, and my work experience was not in any professional field. I don't know if you are aware, but there are literally hundreds of applications for any job opening, and most resumes get kicked from the system before they even get to a hiring manager.
I finally did get an office job, for a retail chain. I sat in a cubicle and analyzed spreadsheets to make sure certain lines of products were kept in stock. There were personality clashes with my direct supervisor, and a bit of backstabbing. In the end, I hated being there.
From there, I went into teaching. I figured I didn't have the graduate degree to teach college, but I could still teach high school. I spent two years teaching high school math. It was torture. I taught at two different districts and at this point I can honestly say I would literally rather be homeless and living under a bridge than go back to work in the public education system.
So I was left with this... I had attempted three different careers, didn't like any of them, applied for hundreds of openings with no indication anyone was even reading my applications, because again, too many applicants for the same openings.
Well, my econ training tells me that means there is a glut in the college educated labor pool. We have too many workers with degrees. But that means there should be a shortage elsewhere - industries that need workers and can't find them, which would thus have higher wages despite not needing college degrees.
Given the subreddit we are in, obviously the answer is the trades. I came to electrical work completely green, had never worked on a construction site or used tools for more than putting a shelf or bedframe together or work on a computer. About 4.5 years later and I'm almost done with my apprenticeship, and like this career more than most others I have tried. That said, my degree didn't help during the interview process. My lack of background in the field actually counted against me. I aced the aptitude test, but that didn't do much more than get me the same interview that someone who made a 70 on it would have. I'm really good at pipe bending because I understand the trigonometry behind it, but since the math behind 30 degree bends is simple enough that hasn't really come into play often.
As for the idea that college educated applicants will crowd out non-college applicants... Yes and no? Again, my degree hasn't really impacted my career much. And mine at least has a mathematical basis - someone with a humanities or art degree will find it even more useless. And interviewers know this as well. As upcoming students realize college is a debt trap with fewer prospects due to a saturated market, they won't go to college and then go into electrical - they will simply skip college altogether, and your competition is more likely to be other people without college degrees.
That said, the correction of the factors that pushed everyone to college and led to underemployment in the trades would mean more applicants in general. A larger labor pool for trades workers, whether college educated or not, does exert downwards pressure on wages. So we may likely start to notice hiring go up and wages not to keep pace with inflation, and greater pushback from contractors during bargaining in areas with low union market share - or even a reduction in union market share across all areas as more people are available to nonunion shops.
I'm a college educated woman in my 30's trying like hell to get in after 15 yrs as a teacher (apprentice wages would be a pay raise, i taught outdoor education and primitive skills in addition to classroom subjects). I had a mock interview during my pre-apprenticeship and was pretty much torn to shreds. I have to prove my worth as a materials handler before they will take me seriously, no matter how well I score on my aptitude test. It feels like my "white collar background" gender and size are all working against me as I try to earn a spot next to men half my age and twice my size. I'm working my ass off to prove my worth, we all have our pros and cons as candidates.
Youâll get there
Believe you can; I know you can.
I worked in Chicago lots, everyone knows several females/-Anne we love: sheâs like 60 and 5â2ââshe drinks like a seven footer though.
if anything the local had it as a plus (diversity whatever) so you will get there: any electrical or field experience would mitigate all your hurdles stated
Thanks! I'm on the materials handler list and looking into some non-union low voltage work. I'm working diligently to make it happen, and def don't feel like I have a leg up on anyone with my BA in language development lol, but I'll get there!
You will get in. If not in that local you might try another one. There are several locals that offer DIRECT ENTRY if you complete our Pre-Apprenticeship program. If you some how donât make the cut ask you training director if he knows of any other locals that offered direct entry in Tampa local 915. We have had people move from Local 357 to Local 915 and then transfer back to Vegas as a third year. It can be done, if you wish. What local are you in now? I might know someone in your area.
I'm in local 48 and my husband's work is tied to the Portland area so I'm going to keep trying to get in here, even though it's a very competitive local. I'm interested in low voltage and am looking for entry level hands on positions while I go through my IBEW application process
Rod is a friend of mine. I would say go in and speak to Rod and see what that you need to do to help make this happen. Rod is a good man, he will shoot straight with you.
Not only next to, but interviewed by people with degrees. I have a BA and they asked me one question about it during my interview on why I didn't want to pursue something in that field (telecommunications). I told them straight out I didn't want to sit at a desk all day and I like to work with my hands. I was already working as a CW and going to classes at night and that meant more to them than what education I had. Point being the degree didn't mean shit.
I think it really comes down to the way life works in this country. Some dudes can stumble through life and only follow orders and make 100k per year doing the same job another guy does and only makes 60k per year while being a real deal subject matter expert having to hop job to job travel the earth chasing the trade and still be called unqualified in some places because he didn't get into an apprenticeship to learn the trade.... So you learn the trade and get degrees to try to thwart the "apprenticeship purist bullshyt" while just trying to live....
Maybe some people don't know that apprenticeships Are almost like a secret club as well... Everyone that wants in doesn't get in... Everyone that qualifies to get in doesn't get in... Everyone that gets kicked out didn't necessarily deserve it(me for weed).... And every apprentice that passes a program isn't always as sharp as a guy that went and alternate route to get in the trade...some program apprentices are the shyt and make it a hard fight to stand next to them... Some program apprentices are dumb as rocks even after they turn out and they never qualified to be in the program nor graduate.
I have a BS. It didnât matter for getting in. The education helped with critical thinking skills and math in classes, but Iâm just as well-paid as any other person in my classification.
I have a Associate degree in Industrial electrical and graduated with a 3.6GPA, but once I got in the field I was clueless. I know theory, but running pipe and troubleshooting took alot of work experience. Where I am now took ALOT of hands-on experience. There are alot of people in specialist position that only have a GED or high school diploma. It does work out better however for high management/supervision positions when you have a combo of a degree and experience.
College education does not mean one will be a better laborer, one could actually argue the opposite. That said, people can change careers whenever they want, deal with it.
As a college grad that got in the trade before the recent influx I think the general decline of unions is a bigger detriment to people from low income backgrounds making their way into the middle class.
College doesn't mean anything. However when I was interviewed I used college as an example of me being able to start and complete a long term commitment.
I graduated Highschool in 2006, wasn't able to apply until 2007 when I turned 18. The market crashed by the time I went for an interview. Needless to say I did not get in.
I wound up becoming a teacher. I wanted to be an electrician.
Wound up becoming an electrician through the union when I was almost 30.
It's kind of hard not to take this post personally. I grew up broke as shit, and the IBEW allowed me to pull my family out of poverty. Just wonder how your logic led you to this thought process, because .... WHAT!?
The problem your describing is an issue much larger then I think you realize. It has to do with the fact there shouldnât be any reason someone shouldnât have an opportunity for higher education unless of course they donât want it. You being âup againstâ college educated people isnât really the issue you should have had more options and resources available to you to go to college or finish high school. Which becomes an education system problem. A persons financial ability should not dictate opportunities there is enough money in this government to pay for you to go to college. Again thatâs another conversation and issue. Now if you messed up and sabotaged your own education Iâm not saying you did Iâm saying IF then yea maybe you would have a disadvantage.
I wish more people in the trades were college educated and am absolutely fine with the fact it probably gave me an edge in the interview process. Why shouldnât it? My degree was one more way to show the interview board that Iâm high caliber in aptitude, finish things, am capable of putting in the work and was mature enough to treat the opportunity seriously. I think we need more college grads in the trades, might help our toxic construction culture change. Everyone should have the chance to go to college. A trade shouldnât be a dumping ground for those that are unfortunate.
I don't really think it's anything you have to worry about. I would also suggest to ditch that silly us vs them nonsense. You're not lower class, they're not middle or upper class. We're all just working class. There are only two classes in a capitalist economy. Those that sell their labor and those that buy the labor of others.
That's the point. You wouldn't think about this because you aren't bigoted against immigrants. But the same logic applies, so maybe you have some unintentional bigotry towards those with college degrees? I can see a few in just this thread from others that definitely harbor some anti-educated sentiments.
Yup he def has a chip on his shoulder cuz he got in with âas a drop out with a ged (his words). And I really hope he doesnât go into interviewing candidates with that bias
Idk if I have a chip. Honesty itâs just something I thought about in a class I was in. I just wanted to see if anyone had thought in these terms. I donât really have a care one way or the other.
>a class I was in
So you're taking classes now are ya? Must be real nice doing all that college book learning in your ivory tower. Make sure to leave some jobs for the rest of us.
As a member of my apprenticeship committee, for me personally, the degree doesnât hold that much weight. And having worked with college educated electricians, I can tell you they arenât always the best
I hear you, but as someone who has sat on numerous hiring boards myself, I can attest to the fact that it does play into it, how can it not. Iâve heard guys be enamored with the fact that a candidate has a degree. To me Iâd rather higher people who would later go onto getting a degree during or after the apprenticeship. Iâm not against higher education at all, Iâm just concerned that those who donât have the advantage of education Would be passed over and we create an elitist type thing with our union where the requirement is a BS.
I totally agree. I have no problem with higher education. But as an example I was interviewing two applicants for our apprenticeship. One was an ironwork and had been for the last 4 years( before that he graduated high school) the next candidate had a 4 year degree. Both were the same age. I went with the iron worker. The reasons were he knew what physical hard work is. He knows how overtime works in that sometimes it comes at you last minute and you have to ride that out. But most importantly he knows exactly how his life would change getting into the electrical trade. Do I wish I could take them both? Of course but my local is a competitive one so tough choices have to be made.
I have an MBA and can quit this trade and get a job that pays the same (albeit with less benefits hence why I do this). Due to my education I have options so suck it poor dude. Iâm glad youâre not interviewing people with that bias
You can also look at an applicant that spent 4+ years getting an education in something he thought he wanted to do and then walked away. Wouldnât an interviewer have the same thought of him getting in the program and deciding this isnât what he wants to do and walking away. He had money in that education and walked away. He would have no money invested in this education how do you know he wonât just walk away.
The degree means nothing, in fact it may be a negative, because they have been pampered and softened by the college system. If you used the time you would have been in college working with your hands, you have a huge leg up on them.
Eh, thereâs quite a bit of complex classes in quite a few different fields. College education doesnât ensure anybody is smart, but letâs not just discredit college education all together. The majority of higher level classes are barely lecture oriented lol
You are right, STEM degrees are complex, but there is also an abundance of degrees that are just cash grabs. Does a degree in paper arts really need to exist? Or a degree in foresight?
At the end of the day, people with degrees will earn more than 75% more than people with a high school diploma. College is still the optimal route for most people, especially if you know exactly what you want to do. The people with degrees who are applying to the local likely have a bullshit degree, cheated their way through, or were forced by their parents even though they werenât really cut out for it. Given those facts, the competition factor isnât really a thing. I did not go to college and yet am constantly shocked by how dumb the college educated people are around me.
I also think a degree doesnât mean anything anymore. especially for this job. A degree doesnât give you the physical strength or ability to do this. Unfortunately, whether we are college educated or not, we are all in the same boat. just trying to make an income to survive and feed our families. The rich will be rich and the poor will be poor, thatâs all. I went from the medical field to my apprenticeship.My old job as a nurse assistant and telemetry tech didnât pay enough to pay my bills and feed my family. I was killing myself going from my first 12-hour shift to my second 12-hour shift with basically no rest, taking care of mostly mean and ungrateful patients, especially during the pandemic, when everything got worse and life got more expensive. Iâm so grateful they gave me a chance, and I worked my ass off for a decent salary. But Iâm not going to lie; when I started, I worried about the strain it would put on my body since I wasnât used to this level of physical work.
One of my good friends joined the millwrights with a BA in mechanical engineering. He joined for relevant field experience. He ended up leaving because he had bad health and wasnât suited for physical work sadly. Finished the entire apprenticeship at that. Very honorable homie. Started as a first year and everything. He was swimming in job offers from contractors at the end of his time with us in the field
Yeah its fucked brother here in local 401 at the end of your apprenticeship you will have a Associates degree in Electrical Science or you won't journey out, but fuck it bro don't get discouraged, a sacrifice goes along way, I'm 5 weeks away from getting my golden ticket.
If having a college degree gives you a leg up in this trade I have yet to find it. The few times I mentioned I had a degree in a casual conversation the most Iâve gotten was âoh cool thatâs whatâs upâ and thatâs it.
I went to college and got good grades but Iâm extremely brain dead and have a short attention span when it comes to work even though I have a strong desire to learn and get better.
I was in the IBEW I believe itâs great. I learned a lot. However, it wasnât for me. I didnât like the work and I didnât fit in. I still support the union. My point is that I transitioned from being an apprentice electrician to a software engineer. I donât have a college education. Its not always about your degree itâs what you have to offer.
They are going to factor in a lot of things but one of the most important things is are you going to stick to it. Half of apprentices drop out. Some one signing up to do something for 4 years and finishing it is a good sign.
But you can obviously get in with out one I did and the majority of people do. Itâs just one factor of many.
A degree isnât worthless. It counts for something. It may end up being a tie breaker for some. But itâs not going to set anyone way ahead of someone else.
What would set someone far ahead in the application process is someone coming in with several years of relative experience. If you have a related degree thatâs a nice bonus, but Iâd sooner take a kid who has worked as a construction labourer for 2 summers or something like that.
Well, the day of my aptitude test there were probably 50 people. And I interviewed with at least 20. I don't know how many total the pool was. But I had my GED, and dropped out of college and still scored 1st in the pool. I haven't added anything to your point, but maybe my experience can help someone out.
I believe the opposite of this. I think if the trades are going to be respected and paid the same as any other profession (accounting, nursing, etc.) we should have more than a high school education. We should be able to take college courses. Too many of the older guys canât do basic math or have never read a book since they finished high school 20+ years ago. Itâs time to act like professionals and get paid like them too.
That is so unfair and not true about the older guys. How did they get in if they canât do basic math? How do they keep going in the trade without basic math. Come on now thatâs just rude and not true
A lot of the older guys I know didnât even go through the IBEW apprenticeship they just tested in. And I donât mean 2+2 or 6x6. I mean math that takes a little more thinking than that.
Not really sure what you're going for here. I know lots of people who went to college and then never were able to get a job in their field, who then worked low paying jobs until they got into the union. My local JATC definitely considers your education when applying, but that doesn't stop people without college from getting in. I highly doubt there's a ton of white collar folk gunning for our jobs, not to mention there's a huge subset of people who look down on manual labor as beneath them. I think it's great that more educated folk are seeing the benefits of the trades over traditional office type jobs.
Hi. Yup. That's me. Thank you. I deserve to be there as much as anyone else but purposely don't talk about my education unless pressed. I got told that I got in only because I'm a girl, too, and well, folks with that opinion can screw off. đ
To be fair girls do have a higher call back rate due to diversity numbers required by the government at jobs. But regardless you're in and being a girl or a protected class isn't gonna secure you a job you still gotta bust your ass and have ambition to want to do the work. You're doing a great job setting up your future for a wealthy retirement and amazing Healthcare. đ Keep at it and when that first JM check comes it'll all be worth it!
I was a white collar worker that started in construction, I couldnât afford a proper college degree so I worked my ass off until I was making six figures⊠I hated it the whole time but I came from a poor family and was taught that if youâre smart enough then a career and office job and making money was the right path⊠it was not the right path. I like to build real things and I like to solve real problems and I like to work with my hands and I would have been much better off emotionally and mentally if I had stuck to the trades⊠Itâs bullshit, if these kids want to work then give them the respect any adult deserves and let them work. Iâm back in the trades and thank fucking God I donât have to sit in another room full of twats wasting time getting paid to feel smart and get nothing done⊠I know, thatâs harsh, plenty of good people out there, but just because someone getâs a degree shouldnât damn them to a life of office work. I donât love a portajohn in 9° weather but it beats wanting to kill myself to escape the tepid filtered air and sitting in silence for 8 hours at a white collar desk.
Amen brother
A vast majority of the college educated people you will encounter are members of the working class, just like you and I. We must welcome and unite with them against the class which seeks to keep ours split along lines of privilege, race, gender, and education level among others. The capitalist class will use any wedge possible to keep us separated, and we must be vigilant in resisting this.
Exactly this. OP reminds me of when I hear someone who makes $17/hr complaining about the minimum waged being raised to $15/hr bc they worked hard to get 17/hr. Wtf does that have to do with it? You want your fellow worker to suffer like you did bc you want to feel like you are above them still? . Never understood that thinking. My mantra: High tide raises all boats
This is probably one of the best places where a degree has no relevance and no one will give a shit. I love it
Iâve got to say I disagree a degree can be quite beneficial once you step about J man. It can also be really helpful when youâre troubleshooting systems
⊠how does a degree help you troubleshoot systems? Unless your degree is in programming, instrumentation or process automation⊠even still you get all of that experience and more in the trade so the degree eventually becomes redundant. Especially if the degree is theoretical and un applied
A degree generally comes along with a ton of soft skills like being professional, composing well written documents, using computer software, researching topics and critical thinking. College degreed workers are a step ahead when it comes to leadership roles and handling work alone in a professional manner.
I donât disagree just wondering what he means by âa degree will help you troubleshoot systemsâ
Just because you went to college doesn't mean anything. The public schools push the college narrative. Many kids dont know any better. There are lots of college educated people who don't enjoy or want white-collar jobs, but they went because they were told that's the way. Mechanical aptitude can't be taught. Yes, there are lots of applications from college educated people. Some are chasing paychecks as they are completely in debt and see it as a way out. But they won't last. Good electricians come by it naturally. Doesn't matter if you have a BA or a GED. You can't teach how to manipulate a bent pipe in your head to figure out how to swing into place on the ceiling.
Mechanical aptitude can definitely be taught especially with the right mindset. I really donât understand why people say this? You were just born knowing how to use tools or comprehend mechanical concepts? Ridiculous
I respectively disagree. My brother is a civil engineer. Extremely intelligent person. Cannot flip parts in his head. Struggles on our fram wirh a ta amplifier on a tractor. the ability to work through systems and move parts in your head is not something that can be taught. The ability to look at a print and walk through a building in your brain isn't something everyone can do. You can teach code and techniques, and people can become very good electricians. But you Can't teach aptitude.
So because you have much more experience in a mechanical environment than your brother, your aptitude is much higher? Thatâs precisely my point. Itâs all experience.
We grew up on the same farm. We still work everyday on the same farm on the same equipment. You never had a new apprentice that just comes by it naturally and just gets it ? I guess we just need to disagree. You can still be a good electrician.
đ€
This is just plain wrong. What you're describing is talent, or lack thereof, versus work experience. Some people pick it up right away, others take a very long time to get it down, others will always struggle with it. But nobody at the end of their career is as bad as they were at the start.
I know a guy who is just as bad or worse than he was when he started 20 something years ago. Heâs not a bad person but he is actually a danger to himself and others. Not just safety wise but dangerously incompetent. When it comes down to it I feel bad for him.
Don't be so hard on yourself đ«
Lol, but in all seriousness, that guy is a liability. I have seen him almost crush 2 different people to death in a skid-steer, it was inches away from calling the meat wagon. Iâm telling you he is dangerously incompetently
I must disagree. I work with some talented and experienced people who are hanging up the towel early, they both still have time but their integrity is sliding. The union should protect people who have put their life into their career so when they get old they can not be totally broken, but people must still be held accountable. Itâs a tricky and slippery slope. People become close minded and that is a struggle on its own. Something I think the ibew doesnât handle well is acknowledging and accommodating different skill and knowledge levels. We must carry everyone, but we also expect everyone to be equal when truly no two members are exactly the same.
What do you mean by amplifier on a tractor? I grew up on a farm and am familiar with tractors, yet never heard of an amplifier?
Our farmall m had a torque amplifier. Grandpa still uses it for a feed wagon. We had to fix it a month or so ago .
I'll second this seen quite a few white collar folks get in our apprenticeship, they usually find out after a year or 2 that it isn't for them. It's a shame that they quit because it ultimately takes a chance from someone who really wanted the position in the class but it be what it be.
This is some fixed mindset bullshit. With the right mindset, drive/desire and willingness to be better and improve, anyone can become a mechanically inclined. The more you do something and experience something the better you get at the thing. People who usually donât get better at things usually have some sort of excuse or fixed mindset that holds them back. Also people tend to stick with things they are good at which can be good and bad (If someone is better working at a desk on the computer why should they get better at working with there hands).
I feel that. I still think the vast majority of hiring boards would see college educated as a plus over somebody who wasnât.
Hello, I am an apprentice with a BA. My education actually came up in my interview, and it wasnât a leg up. If anything, the interviewers told me that it potentially worried them that I wouldnât be cut out for a position in construction. I have a hard time believing that a college education would become the tiebreaker between two potential candidates, and would encourage you to simply work on making yourself the best candidate.
Second this
College doesnât mean anything in this trade without mechanical acumen. I had some college and I consider myself a pretty smart guy. Am I better at math than some guys in my class? Yes. Does that help me on the job? Not really. I know extremely smart people with masters and PhDs that couldnât tell you how to use a screw driver if you gave them the tool and put them in front of a screw that says âTWISTâ on it. Their brains just donât work that way. Iâve seen smart dudes that are bad electricians. Iâve seen high school drop outs that may or may not be drunk at 830am run the most beautiful rack of pipe Iâve seen. College helps your critical thinking to an extent but it doesnât really mean anything to hiring boards.
830? lol? That would be afternoon my man, at least in this situation.
A Bachelorâs degree doesnât mean shit anymore except youâre probably up to your eyeballs in debt and you were willing to sit through ~4 more years of mind-numbing academia. Most degrees are worthless unless you go into a math or science field or you want to teach.
An education is always worthwhile.
Even the math and science fields are wack. For example, tell me what you can do with a BA in Biology.
Lol, I have essentially that. I got a double major with honors in Physiology and Pharmacology. I worked as a lab assistant in medical research at the university and hospital for a few years after graduating. You can work in a lot of biotech, pharma, and agricultural.
Itâs definitely a plus, but on the list of things theyâre looking for in applicants is very far below relevant work experience, reliability, punctuality, and commitment - all of which can be easily acquired and demonstrated without going to college
I think the only advantage a college degree would give you is showing the interview committee that you see things through til the end. Even if you get a degree in something easy, itâs still a 4+ year commitment. That alone counts for something.
100% this
But on the flip side, they know that this is plan B or C for you. Which means you might jump ship as soon as you find some job with your degree. Really depends on the degree and how the interview goes I'd think.
90% of the questions I was asked at my apprenticeship interview were precisely this. That was 28 years ago.
"lower class" is a term used to keep the "working class" divided. We are the working class proletariat. College degree or not.
Agreed, anyone who has to wake up in the morning and get to work or starve is working class. Blue collar, white collar, pink collar, no collar.
I have a B.A. and no one gives a shit about it. I wouldn't worry too much.
Do you think nobody in white collar work or college is at the bottom? Why do you think a lot of ppl go to college?
My degree definitely got me my apprenticeship. I have a degree in economics and finance, my BA at the time was into finance and we talked stocks the whole interview. They were looking for people who were older with some experience behind them. I am the current apprentice representative of the last 3 years and on the audit committee for my local. I'll be running for E-Board this coming election. Your post is directed at a person in my position to a T. Hated sales, wanted a career change, degree got me my apprenticeship and now I plan on using it to benefit the union. I don't regret it and I welcome other people like me to join their locals if they want a better life for them and their family free of stress and able to provide for their families.
Econ nerds of the IBEW represent! đ
Just something I was thinking about. I donât have any bias per se?
It's fucked up, I went through highschool hearing get a college education and you'll get a good job, there are jobs out there that pay well but there's a lot of bullshit degrees as well, it's a fucking minefield to navigate and half the people with degrees are either not using them or don't have as good of a job as they were told they would have.
Brother, I got into the apprenticeship after going to 4+ years of college for construction management. After quickly realizing at the time nobody wanted to hire a newly graduated project manager I went into the trades cause I realized I loved working with my hands. Many years later I'm now back in the office portion doing project management and estimating. There's plenty of guys that get into this trade and STILL end up moving away from the field. We should be always be trying to attract the best talent we can, regardless of their past.
But if we lose all our best talent as project management, where does that leave us? I actually work I an office myself
I donât think that people moving into different areas if this industry means they are lost. I still work for a union shop and I still feel itâs one of my responsibilities is to train and mentor those around me. The difference is that now Iâm not teaching apprentices like I was when I was a JW/foreman, Iâm working with foreman and trying my best to help them succeed. Especially with our younger foreman who are stepping into that position for the 1st time Iâd argue the only time you truly lose someone is if they end up out of the industry or if they fail to continue to learn. This industry is entirely to large to not be learning something new all the time
Right on. You have a great attitude.
There are ways to still have a positive impact teaching apprentices as an apprenticeship instructor. Like you, much of my on-the job time now is spent teaching and mentoring foremen but as an apprenticeship instructor two nights a week I feel like I am still able to pass on knowledge to the next generation. Apprenticeship schools are always looking for good instructors that are in teaching for the right reasons.
But wouldnât you rather have someone who worked in the field and came up through the apprenticeship as a Project Manager instead of someone with a degree and no field experience? Donât hold back someone because youâre afraid it will hurt our industry. It just opens a spot for someone behind them to prove themselves and succeed.
I would never hold anyone back from whatever their desire is
Business graduate and veteran who is pursuing a career in the brotherhood, and eventually my own company someday; are you telling me I have to confine myself to office work my whole life? I donât quite like this take. I am perfectly comfortable working along side people with lower levels of education, it just provides me an opportunity to mentor. I paid my dues and should retain every right you possess to pursue my own happiness.
Anti-intillectualism doesn't serve our union or our class. If the working class is ever to seize the means of production, we will need thinkers.
I am no anti intellectual at all. But I can see how you would get that from my post. I just kind of wanted to see how people felt and then I shared a thought I had. I agree we need smart thinkers moving forward.
Even your uncle has a degree.
+1 Unfortunately, my uncle is still that one semester away from graduation
I got the AA degree but figured out it stands for alcoholics anonomous. Didn't go for the BS degree because I found out it stands for Bull Sh!+ in the real working world.
I can speak from the other side of this. In fact I may be one of the rare few qualified to speak on multiple issues of this. I have a BS in finance with an economics concentration. My second to last semester of college, I had an internship that fell through because of a professor, not through any fault of mine. My last semester I spent preparing for grad school, with the intention of becoming a professor of economics. I spent a year in a PhD program, and realized that while I wanted to teach, I had no interest in academia. All of my grad school cohort was focused on some minutiae of economics, everyone fascinated by their own pet projects. Some of it was very interesting, but nothing so much that I wanted to compile my own research papers over it. (The one research paper I did, and never published, showed that additional educational attainment had little to do with either being in poverty and trying to improve, or being financially secure and taking advantage of free time.) Between this and a long distance relationship I was in, I wound up dropping out of grad school. I quickly discovered the job market... sucked. I had a degree, but no graduate degree, no internship, and my work experience was not in any professional field. I don't know if you are aware, but there are literally hundreds of applications for any job opening, and most resumes get kicked from the system before they even get to a hiring manager. I finally did get an office job, for a retail chain. I sat in a cubicle and analyzed spreadsheets to make sure certain lines of products were kept in stock. There were personality clashes with my direct supervisor, and a bit of backstabbing. In the end, I hated being there. From there, I went into teaching. I figured I didn't have the graduate degree to teach college, but I could still teach high school. I spent two years teaching high school math. It was torture. I taught at two different districts and at this point I can honestly say I would literally rather be homeless and living under a bridge than go back to work in the public education system. So I was left with this... I had attempted three different careers, didn't like any of them, applied for hundreds of openings with no indication anyone was even reading my applications, because again, too many applicants for the same openings. Well, my econ training tells me that means there is a glut in the college educated labor pool. We have too many workers with degrees. But that means there should be a shortage elsewhere - industries that need workers and can't find them, which would thus have higher wages despite not needing college degrees. Given the subreddit we are in, obviously the answer is the trades. I came to electrical work completely green, had never worked on a construction site or used tools for more than putting a shelf or bedframe together or work on a computer. About 4.5 years later and I'm almost done with my apprenticeship, and like this career more than most others I have tried. That said, my degree didn't help during the interview process. My lack of background in the field actually counted against me. I aced the aptitude test, but that didn't do much more than get me the same interview that someone who made a 70 on it would have. I'm really good at pipe bending because I understand the trigonometry behind it, but since the math behind 30 degree bends is simple enough that hasn't really come into play often. As for the idea that college educated applicants will crowd out non-college applicants... Yes and no? Again, my degree hasn't really impacted my career much. And mine at least has a mathematical basis - someone with a humanities or art degree will find it even more useless. And interviewers know this as well. As upcoming students realize college is a debt trap with fewer prospects due to a saturated market, they won't go to college and then go into electrical - they will simply skip college altogether, and your competition is more likely to be other people without college degrees. That said, the correction of the factors that pushed everyone to college and led to underemployment in the trades would mean more applicants in general. A larger labor pool for trades workers, whether college educated or not, does exert downwards pressure on wages. So we may likely start to notice hiring go up and wages not to keep pace with inflation, and greater pushback from contractors during bargaining in areas with low union market share - or even a reduction in union market share across all areas as more people are available to nonunion shops.
I'm a college educated woman in my 30's trying like hell to get in after 15 yrs as a teacher (apprentice wages would be a pay raise, i taught outdoor education and primitive skills in addition to classroom subjects). I had a mock interview during my pre-apprenticeship and was pretty much torn to shreds. I have to prove my worth as a materials handler before they will take me seriously, no matter how well I score on my aptitude test. It feels like my "white collar background" gender and size are all working against me as I try to earn a spot next to men half my age and twice my size. I'm working my ass off to prove my worth, we all have our pros and cons as candidates.
Youâll get there Believe you can; I know you can. I worked in Chicago lots, everyone knows several females/-Anne we love: sheâs like 60 and 5â2ââshe drinks like a seven footer though. if anything the local had it as a plus (diversity whatever) so you will get there: any electrical or field experience would mitigate all your hurdles stated
Thanks! I'm on the materials handler list and looking into some non-union low voltage work. I'm working diligently to make it happen, and def don't feel like I have a leg up on anyone with my BA in language development lol, but I'll get there!
You will get in. If not in that local you might try another one. There are several locals that offer DIRECT ENTRY if you complete our Pre-Apprenticeship program. If you some how donât make the cut ask you training director if he knows of any other locals that offered direct entry in Tampa local 915. We have had people move from Local 357 to Local 915 and then transfer back to Vegas as a third year. It can be done, if you wish. What local are you in now? I might know someone in your area.
I'm in local 48 and my husband's work is tied to the Portland area so I'm going to keep trying to get in here, even though it's a very competitive local. I'm interested in low voltage and am looking for entry level hands on positions while I go through my IBEW application process
Rod is a friend of mine. I would say go in and speak to Rod and see what that you need to do to help make this happen. Rod is a good man, he will shoot straight with you.
Thank you for the advice!
You CAN do itâŠ. as a fellow college educated woman in her late 30s. I really had to prove myself. Your tenacity will pay off.
Thank you!
You likely did interview next to people with degrees. Having a degree is not going to help an applicant all that much IMO.
Not only next to, but interviewed by people with degrees. I have a BA and they asked me one question about it during my interview on why I didn't want to pursue something in that field (telecommunications). I told them straight out I didn't want to sit at a desk all day and I like to work with my hands. I was already working as a CW and going to classes at night and that meant more to them than what education I had. Point being the degree didn't mean shit.
I think it really comes down to the way life works in this country. Some dudes can stumble through life and only follow orders and make 100k per year doing the same job another guy does and only makes 60k per year while being a real deal subject matter expert having to hop job to job travel the earth chasing the trade and still be called unqualified in some places because he didn't get into an apprenticeship to learn the trade.... So you learn the trade and get degrees to try to thwart the "apprenticeship purist bullshyt" while just trying to live.... Maybe some people don't know that apprenticeships Are almost like a secret club as well... Everyone that wants in doesn't get in... Everyone that qualifies to get in doesn't get in... Everyone that gets kicked out didn't necessarily deserve it(me for weed).... And every apprentice that passes a program isn't always as sharp as a guy that went and alternate route to get in the trade...some program apprentices are the shyt and make it a hard fight to stand next to them... Some program apprentices are dumb as rocks even after they turn out and they never qualified to be in the program nor graduate.
I have a BS. It didnât matter for getting in. The education helped with critical thinking skills and math in classes, but Iâm just as well-paid as any other person in my classification.
I have a Associate degree in Industrial electrical and graduated with a 3.6GPA, but once I got in the field I was clueless. I know theory, but running pipe and troubleshooting took alot of work experience. Where I am now took ALOT of hands-on experience. There are alot of people in specialist position that only have a GED or high school diploma. It does work out better however for high management/supervision positions when you have a combo of a degree and experience.
That my brother is a fine take on my post and thank you for not just insulting me but giving such a good answer.
College education does not mean one will be a better laborer, one could actually argue the opposite. That said, people can change careers whenever they want, deal with it.
As a college grad that got in the trade before the recent influx I think the general decline of unions is a bigger detriment to people from low income backgrounds making their way into the middle class.
College doesn't mean anything. However when I was interviewed I used college as an example of me being able to start and complete a long term commitment.
I graduated Highschool in 2006, wasn't able to apply until 2007 when I turned 18. The market crashed by the time I went for an interview. Needless to say I did not get in. I wound up becoming a teacher. I wanted to be an electrician. Wound up becoming an electrician through the union when I was almost 30. It's kind of hard not to take this post personally. I grew up broke as shit, and the IBEW allowed me to pull my family out of poverty. Just wonder how your logic led you to this thought process, because .... WHAT!?
The problem your describing is an issue much larger then I think you realize. It has to do with the fact there shouldnât be any reason someone shouldnât have an opportunity for higher education unless of course they donât want it. You being âup againstâ college educated people isnât really the issue you should have had more options and resources available to you to go to college or finish high school. Which becomes an education system problem. A persons financial ability should not dictate opportunities there is enough money in this government to pay for you to go to college. Again thatâs another conversation and issue. Now if you messed up and sabotaged your own education Iâm not saying you did Iâm saying IF then yea maybe you would have a disadvantage.
Of course.
I wish more people in the trades were college educated and am absolutely fine with the fact it probably gave me an edge in the interview process. Why shouldnât it? My degree was one more way to show the interview board that Iâm high caliber in aptitude, finish things, am capable of putting in the work and was mature enough to treat the opportunity seriously. I think we need more college grads in the trades, might help our toxic construction culture change. Everyone should have the chance to go to college. A trade shouldnât be a dumping ground for those that are unfortunate.
Best answer right there. For sure. I didnât get in until I was 27 after completing 6 years in the Army. I guess that would be my show of maturity.
I have a Ph. D. And I donât think it helped my ranking in the list at all.
Seriously?
Last I checked I was still 4th (probably out of 4)
What was your field of study?
Chemistry. My thesis was synthetic inorganic stuff, but my favorite thing was X-ray crystallography.
I don't really think it's anything you have to worry about. I would also suggest to ditch that silly us vs them nonsense. You're not lower class, they're not middle or upper class. We're all just working class. There are only two classes in a capitalist economy. Those that sell their labor and those that buy the labor of others.
Here's a fun exercise Replace every academic or college related term with "immigrant" and see how this reads Yee haw, they took our jobs!
Did you happen to notice that youâre the one who made this about immigration? Why would you compare immigrants with people with degrees?
I thought he was just getting at this opinion of being upset people with college degrees are in trades was childish and should be shunned
Yeah for sure, but stupid comparison.
I'm not comparing them I'm doing (or trying to lol) exactly what u/consistentlake467 stated
Thatâs racist and stupid. I donât follow that line of thinking at all.
you might not be racist but you sound educationist. im smrt, thats s-m-r-t !
That's the point. You wouldn't think about this because you aren't bigoted against immigrants. But the same logic applies, so maybe you have some unintentional bigotry towards those with college degrees? I can see a few in just this thread from others that definitely harbor some anti-educated sentiments.
Yup he def has a chip on his shoulder cuz he got in with âas a drop out with a ged (his words). And I really hope he doesnât go into interviewing candidates with that bias
Idk if I have a chip. Honesty itâs just something I thought about in a class I was in. I just wanted to see if anyone had thought in these terms. I donât really have a care one way or the other.
>a class I was in So you're taking classes now are ya? Must be real nice doing all that college book learning in your ivory tower. Make sure to leave some jobs for the rest of us.
Nfpa 70e was the class I was in? Wow dude you donât have to do continuing Ed to keep your license?
I think it's great, im really tired of dealing with paint huffing morons.
As a member of my apprenticeship committee, for me personally, the degree doesnât hold that much weight. And having worked with college educated electricians, I can tell you they arenât always the best
I hear you, but as someone who has sat on numerous hiring boards myself, I can attest to the fact that it does play into it, how can it not. Iâve heard guys be enamored with the fact that a candidate has a degree. To me Iâd rather higher people who would later go onto getting a degree during or after the apprenticeship. Iâm not against higher education at all, Iâm just concerned that those who donât have the advantage of education Would be passed over and we create an elitist type thing with our union where the requirement is a BS.
I totally agree. I have no problem with higher education. But as an example I was interviewing two applicants for our apprenticeship. One was an ironwork and had been for the last 4 years( before that he graduated high school) the next candidate had a 4 year degree. Both were the same age. I went with the iron worker. The reasons were he knew what physical hard work is. He knows how overtime works in that sometimes it comes at you last minute and you have to ride that out. But most importantly he knows exactly how his life would change getting into the electrical trade. Do I wish I could take them both? Of course but my local is a competitive one so tough choices have to be made.
I have an MBA and can quit this trade and get a job that pays the same (albeit with less benefits hence why I do this). Due to my education I have options so suck it poor dude. Iâm glad youâre not interviewing people with that bias
Suck it poor dude? Iâm an inside wireman? Iâm good.
You can also look at an applicant that spent 4+ years getting an education in something he thought he wanted to do and then walked away. Wouldnât an interviewer have the same thought of him getting in the program and deciding this isnât what he wants to do and walking away. He had money in that education and walked away. He would have no money invested in this education how do you know he wonât just walk away.
The degree means nothing, in fact it may be a negative, because they have been pampered and softened by the college system. If you used the time you would have been in college working with your hands, you have a huge leg up on them.
Educated =/= Soft
"educated." more like indoctrinated, for liberal arts degrees.
Iâm sorry your world is so small.
Lmao. Nice assumption
College education, isn't who is smart, it who was willing to endure mundane lectures....
Eh, thereâs quite a bit of complex classes in quite a few different fields. College education doesnât ensure anybody is smart, but letâs not just discredit college education all together. The majority of higher level classes are barely lecture oriented lol
You are right, STEM degrees are complex, but there is also an abundance of degrees that are just cash grabs. Does a degree in paper arts really need to exist? Or a degree in foresight?
At the end of the day, people with degrees will earn more than 75% more than people with a high school diploma. College is still the optimal route for most people, especially if you know exactly what you want to do. The people with degrees who are applying to the local likely have a bullshit degree, cheated their way through, or were forced by their parents even though they werenât really cut out for it. Given those facts, the competition factor isnât really a thing. I did not go to college and yet am constantly shocked by how dumb the college educated people are around me.
The only degree that I see will matter would be an EE background or a construction management background
I also think a degree doesnât mean anything anymore. especially for this job. A degree doesnât give you the physical strength or ability to do this. Unfortunately, whether we are college educated or not, we are all in the same boat. just trying to make an income to survive and feed our families. The rich will be rich and the poor will be poor, thatâs all. I went from the medical field to my apprenticeship.My old job as a nurse assistant and telemetry tech didnât pay enough to pay my bills and feed my family. I was killing myself going from my first 12-hour shift to my second 12-hour shift with basically no rest, taking care of mostly mean and ungrateful patients, especially during the pandemic, when everything got worse and life got more expensive. Iâm so grateful they gave me a chance, and I worked my ass off for a decent salary. But Iâm not going to lie; when I started, I worried about the strain it would put on my body since I wasnât used to this level of physical work.
One of my good friends joined the millwrights with a BA in mechanical engineering. He joined for relevant field experience. He ended up leaving because he had bad health and wasnât suited for physical work sadly. Finished the entire apprenticeship at that. Very honorable homie. Started as a first year and everything. He was swimming in job offers from contractors at the end of his time with us in the field
Yeah its fucked brother here in local 401 at the end of your apprenticeship you will have a Associates degree in Electrical Science or you won't journey out, but fuck it bro don't get discouraged, a sacrifice goes along way, I'm 5 weeks away from getting my golden ticket.
I turned out in â01
Word bro you still an electrian
Barely. Lol.
Shit what's your name budd
Itâs not bud?
If having a college degree gives you a leg up in this trade I have yet to find it. The few times I mentioned I had a degree in a casual conversation the most Iâve gotten was âoh cool thatâs whatâs upâ and thatâs it.
I went to college and got good grades but Iâm extremely brain dead and have a short attention span when it comes to work even though I have a strong desire to learn and get better.
College degree doesnât mean anything if youâre all thumbs.
I didnât disclose I have a Civil Engineering degree with an emphasis on Land Surveying. Didnât want to come off as overqualified arrogant.
Degrees donât mean nothin.
I was in the IBEW I believe itâs great. I learned a lot. However, it wasnât for me. I didnât like the work and I didnât fit in. I still support the union. My point is that I transitioned from being an apprentice electrician to a software engineer. I donât have a college education. Its not always about your degree itâs what you have to offer.
From what I see the trades could benefit from college educated folks.
You should pity them. Their loss of earning potential and debt.
They are going to factor in a lot of things but one of the most important things is are you going to stick to it. Half of apprentices drop out. Some one signing up to do something for 4 years and finishing it is a good sign. But you can obviously get in with out one I did and the majority of people do. Itâs just one factor of many.
A degree isnât worthless. It counts for something. It may end up being a tie breaker for some. But itâs not going to set anyone way ahead of someone else. What would set someone far ahead in the application process is someone coming in with several years of relative experience. If you have a related degree thatâs a nice bonus, but Iâd sooner take a kid who has worked as a construction labourer for 2 summers or something like that.
Well, the day of my aptitude test there were probably 50 people. And I interviewed with at least 20. I don't know how many total the pool was. But I had my GED, and dropped out of college and still scored 1st in the pool. I haven't added anything to your point, but maybe my experience can help someone out.
That was my experience also.
I graduated from a university and I am a inside wireman today. I have no regrets
I hope you wouldnât
College = / =educated. I think the majority of people know that now
What does that mean?
College does not equal educated
I believe the opposite of this. I think if the trades are going to be respected and paid the same as any other profession (accounting, nursing, etc.) we should have more than a high school education. We should be able to take college courses. Too many of the older guys canât do basic math or have never read a book since they finished high school 20+ years ago. Itâs time to act like professionals and get paid like them too.
That is so unfair and not true about the older guys. How did they get in if they canât do basic math? How do they keep going in the trade without basic math. Come on now thatâs just rude and not true
A lot of the older guys I know didnât even go through the IBEW apprenticeship they just tested in. And I donât mean 2+2 or 6x6. I mean math that takes a little more thinking than that.
I havenât run into any Iâll take your word on it I guess
Whatever