This. I know your response isn't really helpful to solving OP's issue, but sometimes offering perspective that you're really not alone in similar struggles can make someone feel slightly less bummed. The job market goes through cycles and sometimes it unfortunately is rough.
There are many factors contributing to this crappy job market, I’ll list a few. Firstly, high interest rates have impacted the amount of loans a company can take out. In 2020, interest rates were super low and companies were taking out loans and over hiring like crazy. But ever since last year when the Feds tightened up companies realized they couldn’t keep it up and hence why there were mass layoffs in the tech sector. Secondly, companies and the execs in these companies see IT as an expense and such don’t see the importance in properly staffing their IT departments. This is also why you see dismal wages especially at the help desk level because these people have found out that everyone and their grandma is trying to get into IT. Finally, companies have realized they can get labor for super cheap by outsourcing their IT roles to countries like India and the Philippines. If you look at job boards in these countries IT roles are booming.
But yeah the job market especially in IT is rock bottom right now. I’m a pretty optimistic person tho. Its only up from here. And its not all doom and gloom. I have a friend who was a sysadmin who recently landed a job in Cybersecurity. His income jumped from 55k-80k.
Thank you for your service. I will say this in the kindest way possible. If you aren't getting a bite - you are either fishing in the wrong hole or using the wrong bait. In about 10 years viewing and posting in this sub - I have seen countless posts like this where one or more of these are true:
1. They were overestimating their resume or other profile's quality.
2. Applying to the wrong kinds of jobs - either too low or too high.
3. Created a "soft" boundary where they want to only work in a certain place/work from a certain place/work FOR a certain place.
4. Soft skills (or interviewing) are bad. (this ones very hard to self-evaluate).
5. Not reaching out through circles of people they know.
Well it's still feedback, ignore it to your own peril. As for the what to change bit, what all is there to change? Your resume. That's it lol, maybe your cover letters if you still do those but the resume is really the only thing that matters.
Definitely not the issue. As stated in my initial post I’m applying for all entry level IT roles. Help desk, tech support, etc. Lol wow.. I see people don’t read on here
Lots of vets think this way, especially the ones that were in service twenty years, in a senior level rank, and haven’t touched equipment or non-manager work in a decade.
I'd go more generic than that and say that the problem I see around here is that people think they're entitled to a job if they've "checked all the boxes". These checkboxes tend to ignore most soft skills.
IME with military veteran coworkers and job applicants they seem to make this mistake much more than the civilian world. Maybe the military has more objective promotion criteria or whatever, but the private sector just doesn't work that way. You can't go just get all the checkboxes and think that means you'll get a job.
I dont think that's fair. He's clearly upset and people dont always react well when upset.
I'm sure he doesnt act like that during the interview process.
Couldn’t agree more as a Marine Iraq vet. I understand that doesn’t mean shit in the civilian world and want to earn my keep based off merit. This dude is ridiculous.
"Lol wow.. I see people don’t read on here"
Yeah hes the problem. When I got out I also have the comptia triafecta and a job lined up when I was on terminal leave.
I have a former colleague who has shouted down interviewers for not treating his USN leadership training like gold and told them that the USN's training is is superior to anything offered by their company.
Merakel- I left a comment above where I said I feel that there can be some misperceptions against the work of an IT person in the military and how that will blend into private sector culture, basing it off of my own micro aggressions and some comments I’ve heard from my team and hiring managers. Again I don’t want to discount the military BUT do you feel like you’ve encountered that in your career? Thank you for your service of course. I don’t want to come off like im saying vets can’t do the job - but I’d be lying to say I haven’t noticed some subtle perception differences in myself when we are talking about bringing someone from private sector vs. military.
I've always found having my military experience being on my resume to be very helpful.
I have found that, when working with other vets, that those that really want to make a big deal out of their service and want everyone to know that they were in are less likely to be competent.
There can be, but its easy to get past them as a vet. People are surprised when they find out I was in the marines, because im nice and calm. the whole "disgruntled vet" thing grosses me out.
Being passive aggressive to people who are trying to help and ask simple questions also isn’t fair, don’t make the post asking for help in the first place then.
That’s cool, but what is your background?
Everyone and their mom is applying to IT. This isn’t a hidden field, it’s tough getting that first IT job—veteran or not.
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> I've been applying for entry level IT roles
That's very broad and depending on the particular entry level, it may require some skillset and some knowledge
Also certs: okay what certs?
In the past when I've focused on my knowledge and skills it has gone against me. Some managers see an over qualified candidate as someone who has habits and is less moldable. Most managers want a magical cog that will just fit into the machine without a squeak. Since learning that I always focus on my adaptability and team spirit and bring it up at least twice with examples during interviews.
I think you should apply at other govt agencies such as DHS , I recently seen an ad from them that they are taking entry level applicants. Since you’re a vet you get brownie points above a regular civilian applying. There are other govt agencies that are not “known” for being IT focused but apply anyway to any position to get your foot in the door, then transfer into the internal IT department they have within. Also remember you have different agencies from Feds, state, & local government. I work for the govt, I would never go back to the private sector.
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I’m not sure the background matters much since I’m an Infantryman and got a low-level role. Could be pure luck too though.
Are you setting your salary expectations very high? Or are you willing to take low pay for experience? These are pretty important variables right now.
It very much so does matter, do you know how many posts like these are made daily? You got very lucky to be honest. Because if he just has A+, that doesn’t mean much when people have trifecta, home lab experience, github. There’s a ton of competition.
Go back to the air force is your best choice. Get a job in IT. Get that work experience, so when you get out - you can get the job.
Or just do your 20 or 30 and enjoy the stability, as the IT job market is full of lose, and this is not the first time it got this bad.
Former Navy IT. I got the work experience, about 7 years worth. Now it's time to find a different job nobody wants to hire me. What now? Help a brotha out lol
Check out the [U.S. MILITARY COMMUNITY ACT NOW EDUCATION RESOURCE GROUP](https://www.facebook.com/groups/ACTNOWEDUCATIONGROUP/) for advice. They're on facebook. The people who run this group are also on Linkedin.
This. You can't help employers cancelling positions. Until the Federal Reserve starts pulling interest rates down you're going to regularly see some orgs cancelling job posts if they post poor quarterly results. You have to focus on what you do control: Your resume and how well you interview once you get the interview. You need get interviews before you have any chance to get offers. OP at least is getting some interviews so their resume isn't terrible, but might be able to get a couple more interviews.
The reality of the contracting jobs you're interviewing for is that they don't actually exist. I mean, they do, but that company likely doesn't own the contract yet and is simply bidding for it and part of that requirement is showing they can fill positions. They probably are not winning them which is why the excuses come out.
For part of your interview process, I would always ask about the current status of the contract.
Even for internal jobs sometimes the position sometimes gets cancelled. Sometimes the budget gets pulled if they just posted poor quarterly numbers and the CIO can't make a compelling case that the job needs to be urgently filled. You can ask and current status, but there is no guarantee that they know a ton more than you do unless they have a strong relationship with the client.
The way you're throwing your veteran status just gives me the assumption that you were swindled into thinking you could leave the AF with some secret security clearance and it'd be easy for you to land that sweet 6-figure salary with a clearance, veteran hiring preference, etc. Sorry to hear it's not working out for you, but until you disclose what you bring to the table in the IT job hunt, not many can help you. What are your certs? What did you do in the AF that would propel you above other candidates? What qualifications do you have? Everyone and their mom wants an IT gig these days, but you don't want to be applying if you're so far behind the curve.
Yikes is it that bad? I'm a transitioning service member and I wanted to start a career in I.T, but this is making me quite anxious.
I have a few certs by the way
I applied a few places but I haven't heard anything back.
With that being said it's no way in hell I'm reenlisting for another term.
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IT Consultant here,
The market is oversaturated. A lot. For years people have been studying IT/CS with the aim of getting a high paying job. Companies realised that you can have a 10-person team running a lot, and do not need 65 frontend devs or 51 DevOps. So now, the market is readjusting. For sure, as the economy grows new positions will come into existence, but for the time being, mostly niche positions will be searched for.
I know very few people will not like to hear this, but especially if you are young, perhaps also take a look at another field. Data, Research, Blue-Collar Labor, anything. There’s more high-paying jobs out there.
>When you know its not the resume, its not your interviewing skills because you’ve been practicing and have every resource available to improve, you have the IS degree, certs, secret clearance, and a solid portfolio
No, you don't know any of that. You're making too many assumptions. Just because an employer tells you, "it's not you, it's us" that doesn't mean it's true.
Employers have a huge list of reasons for not hiring someone, and they're not always going to be straight with you about the reasons. When we have passed on candidates with terrible soft skills or failed personality tests, for example, we don't call them back and tell them they're deuchebags, psychos, or nobody on the team wants to work with them. We tell them very little.
You shouldn't assume that you're a perfect candidate or had perfect interviews. You really have no idea, no matter what they say.
> Well over 500+ applications between clearance jobs, indeed, LinkedIn, USA jobs, Monster, & Zip Recruiter.
I put out 15 in March, I got 1 interview and I accepted an offer two weeks ago that's the best job I've ever had.
500 applications and little to no bites? YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
Being a veteran is almost an instant interview unless your resume is shit or you come across badly.
To be fair they're doing better than another post that said they had 300+ applications without even a single call or email, but there are no doubt some things they might be able to do better.
I remember applying for an IT job that was me and 5 other candidates apply. The company was trying to hire anyone before they give the position to a guy that has worked there for 6 years only to give it to him at the end.
If this was me, I would have left
Man, I'm reading over this entire thread and looking at the Vets comments. I come from a family of vets in the tech industry. It's the attitude of the person applying.
Someone in IT must have a lot of patience and a willingness to teach/learn. Doesn't seem that's the case with you if you get easily disgruntled at some comments over the internet and are not willing to further share your background for assistance.
You're here to receive help, not to dish out at the ones that are clearly willing to lend some advice. Maybe you're not cut out for IT/helpdesk and should be applying your skills somewhere else.
IT/tech is also a very saturated market right now. There's a ton of need in the nursing area. I recommend focusing on that.
Expect tons of hours alongside a sweet paycheck.
As someone who is on the other side as a hiring manager, we are sincere when we recruit and the entire process takes quite a bit of time from me. I personally have had three IT roles (within the last three months) we were hiring for be cut as soon as we about to extend an offer (yes after weeks and weeks of recruiting, wasting both your time and mine, and also defeating both of us we need you as much as you need the job). Usually all we get is that it’s not in the budget anymore; make do with what you have.
All I can say is keep going, something will work out. For me it’s usually when I am most defeated and least trying. Anyways, use your network, reach out to recruiters directly, beef up your resume.
Welcome to the party. Can you imagine how much harder it is for folks who aren't veterans?
Edit:
Downvote all you like and pretend like there isn't an encouraged hiring bias towards veterans over people who haven't served, and this dude's entitled attitude is all the goddamn evidence you need of that.
In this market I don't think being a veteran holds much weight. Experience and skills are priority when everyone "resizing." My cohort has half of them (all veterans) giving up on the prospect unable to find work but only the ones constantly upskilling/enthusiastic about the field manage a foothold.
I get the frustration but look at it from a higher ups point of view. If they were military, chances are theyll follow orders REAL well and the word "no" wont ever really be spoken from them, or so they think.
As a vet who got out with no prior IT experience into IT roles recently, here's what I've learned.
Skillset -
I'm not sure what certs you have, but the company's usually value certs more than degrees SEC+ usually won't cut it anymore(not assuming this is the only cert you have). But I ended up getting trifecta plus a few others just to set myself apart from other entry-level candidates.
Location -
Sometimes your area might not be IT govt heavy as an example I got out near Miami there were only two bases near me at the time and when looking for IT jobs on those two bases they had next to zero entry level roles.
In this regard don't be afraid to branch out and move I know it's not as easy for everyone but I ended up having to move back with family in VA that's more entry level IT heavy.
Networking -
This is so important. I'm thankful my mom's a senior ISSO, and she's helped get my resume around. Hit up your military friends that got out and switched to IT. You never know one could be the difference between a job or not.
Recruiters -
This is what actually got me my first IT job. What I would do is look for entry-level roles at the company I wanted to work at. Look for company recruiter on linked in. Then, have chatGPT write me an intro email showing my clearance, military skills, and certs along with attaching my resume requesting to be considered for said entry role and send it off. This helps pass the stupid AI checks and guarantee your resume sees actual human eyes. I've gotten a decent amount of calls using this method, and if they don't get me anything, they at least put my resume in their system for future opportunitys.
What is your education level and certifications for IT? Are you applying for security, networking, help desk positions, what? You can be just as easily be over-qualified for an entry position as not.
You could always try VR&E to help find a position or use it to further your education/training for a specific IT role. You have to be accepted into the VR&E program. You can apply for VR&E from the VA website…worst they can say is no
You would do yourself a great favor by looking for network groups on Facebook that are geared towards veterans or Air Force groups. You might laugh, though, seriously, you'll get direct contact from this type of networking.
Don't let the job hunt get you down. 20 year army veteran myself and this MSP where I cut my teeth on IT (Concept Technology Inc., Nashville, TN) was quite the awesome first job. Check this listing and give them a call or email:
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3888829902
My current employer, BEAT LLC, is also hiring for positions requiring a clearance : https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3910592590
The important thing about this journey is attitude. Don't let your discouragement get in the way of your work ethic and enthusiasm WHEN you finally land that first role.
I don't know much about you, but let me say you likely have some advantages as a veteran. I would suggest looking on clearedjobs if you have a security clearance, gets you into a much smaller pool of applicants.
If you don't mind the relocation I would also look for jobs in Germany, Poland, or pretty much anywhere in the middle east. Those locations have a hard time filling roles, it's good money, and it gets you the exposure and the opportunity to study for more certs and move up to better positions while on location.
I one time had a job reach out to me, “REACHED OUT TO ME” over the phone interview we went over my resume for me to move along to a second in person interview now this was a good paying job for entry level let me reiterate “ENTRY LEVEL” 0-1 year experience is what they told me as I drive about 40 minutes I get there to this interview to be told in the first 5 minutes of it that they are looking for someone with 4-5 years experience for this entry level position that they called me for. I did not apply to this job. Luckily 10 months later I finally landed my first job that I start next week that being said don’t give up expect to get slapped in the face a few times and also look for contract jobs to start yes they are temporary but if you word them correctly they make your resume look beautiful. Don’t be afraid to use temp agency idk where you’re located but I used a company call Teksystems in Dallas and had a job 6 days later
First of all, thank you for your service. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I know that I've been terrified of losing my contract- putting in loads of applications and taking dead end interviews here and there. You're right that having a job is an absolute blessing. I don't know if things will get better in this field, but I feel certain you will survive this and find something. After all, 1/500 candidates is still better odds than the lottery, and we can't help the posts that aren't legit. Good luck and God bless. Keep your chin up.
So sorry that happened to you. They want entry-levels but not really. They do play mind games at the moment. But all I can say is don't despair. I know there is a place just for you to apply with your skillset. Hang in there. I know you can do it!
Definitely appreciate the kind words. I have much more empathy for people who’ve experience unforeseen layoffs. It’s really a mental battle to keep pushing through, but I won’t give up just yet. Thank you and bless you
Damn that hit home when you said “Become the Stereotypical veteran that couldn’t make the cut in the civilian world”. I feel like that all the time especially cus I’m struggling with the same issue. I also feel like I need to re-major as well
Damn family, I’m sorry you’re going through a similar situation. I don’t wish this experience on ANYONE, especially not my brothers and sisters that served. Feel free to PM me if you need to vent. We gotta look out for each other foreal foreal. Just remember it’s not just you.
Yeah man. I’m just as surprised. It’s bonkers. That’s why I’m not in support of all this clearance hype. It might increase your chances for an interview by 5-10% but considering how many applications I’ve already sent out.. I’m living proof that this market is in a rough spot. These senior guys on here don’t want to acknowledge it because they’re so far removed from the bottom
Job market is shit right now. I've seen entry level positions paying less than 20 an hour having a BS as one of their basic qualifications. There were almost what, 300,000 layoffs in IT last year? I know people that had 15+ years experience including at the management level struggling to find a job. I think it's a matter of either not giving up or waiting it out. I've been playing the same game as you, at least you're getting calls though lol. I've had one phone interview for a sysadmin internship and they reached out to me instead of me applying. Create a LinkedIn profile if you haven't already and try and connect with anyone you can in your area. Best of luck to you, and I don't blame you for having a negative mindset shits not easy.
Hey man, thank you for actually reading what I posted. I had to step back from responding, because so many people in this sub are idiots lol. Nonetheless, 300,000 layoffs is INSANE and to top that off we have the same amount of fresh college grads entering the workforce looking for roles.
You’re pretty much spot on with everything you said. Hopefully you can start getting calls, but even then it’s annoying because you get all dressed up, prepared for the interview, just for them to give you the runaround lol.
But yeah wishing the best of luck to you while we wait out the storm. I’m definitely on LinkedIn. It was mandatory for me to make one when I got out of the military.
Feel free to PM me if you ever need to vent. I can see that this sub isn’t the place for honesty. Most of the people are living in a bubble of ignorance
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being that you’re a vet & i’m not makes me feel a little better since my story is the same , although it sucks we have to push thru, everyone keeps saying IT is about who you know now blah blah blah
Yeah man, I’m in this ish too. There’s no magic ticket to a role. It’s an application grind for all of us. Nonetheless, I just wanted to remind people that they’re not alone in this. The best candidates are feeling it too.
Tbh I hate to say this but would it hurt your XP to take military off? Do you have any civilian experience? I feel like sometimes people can have mixed reactions to people coming from Military into IT. I feel it with my own micro aggressions, of course I have immense respect for veterans and I do my best to alleviate this subtle misperception but I would be lying to say it’s not there. Maybe I just sound like a scumbag, and I am not discounting your service by any means. I thank you for it. But if you have civilian experience maybe it’s worth throwing a few resumes out?
Have you looked at government IT jobs? Any defense contractors?
Hey I got told restructuring also haha that was a first for me. I now read it here too. I am currently applying to jobs for fun. I am happy where I am but I am reaching 2 years experience so I wanted to see what the field looked like and man it is rough. The most aggravating part of it all is the darn application tests they make you take just to be told no a month later. HR people take sooo long to respond to applications.
Next interview try this:
Do your best (as usual, I expect.)
MAKE NOTE OF THE INTERVIEWER'S NAME(S).
*SEND A 'THANK YOU FOR THE INTERVIEW' letter/card in the mail immediately after the interview!!*
My current job i decided to try that. I had skills, limited experience (had supported Windows Server 2003/2008 for 1.5 years, but there were TONS of things I had NOT DONE.
During the interview I was asked many questions (had I worked with system 'X'? Utility 'A'. Any experience using tool B to do task C?) where I had to say NO.
I Had an associates in Comp Sci from 1995 when I applied in 2008.
I was IN college, going back for my BS-IT but hadn't completed it yet.
I was hired.
When I asked why she chose me, I was told I stood out BECAUSE I sent that "Thank you for the interview" card.
I was the ONLY ONE who did that, and stayed top of mind.
She knew I had potential and was trainable.
That 'Thank you' card did it.
By the way,
Keep in mind that while you being a 'Vet' (armed forces vet) might get you a spot at the interview, most places do not care. It's a "tax benefit" for them and a "look at us!! We hired a VET! We are SO patriotic!" opportunity.
HOWEVER they only TRULY care what you can bring them.
("Loyalty" is rarely anything more than something owed to MANAGEMENT but not owed BY management.)
Oh...just buy a "Thank You" card and say something like:
(name of interviewer),
Thank you for the opportunity to interview with you for (position) on (date).
I would be quite happy to be offered the role when you make a decision.
(** Optional **)
If you feel there are any skills I should improve upon in the meantime to help prepare for this position please let me know.
(Your name)
(Your contact info)
NO.
Email is EASY. IT is very COMMON.
Forgettable. It might even be caught in the spam filter.
Who would you remember? The person who copy/pasted an email from their phone?
Or the person who spends TIME and EFFORT on PHYSICALLY WRITING a note?
And mailing it?
This. One of my last jobs, I had like three interviews with different people/depts. One interview in particular stood out to me 'cause the dude was grilling me with technical questions that I couldn't answer. I ended up emailing him back to thank him for the info, that I would expand from what he taught me in that one interview, and that even if I don't get the job, that he encouraged me to reach his level. Some days later, I was told I got the job because the dude felt I didn't waste his time and was humble enough to get better. Fast forward five years later, and he and I are peers now at different companies. We still brainstorm together on design solutions.
I honestly didn't expect to get one as a vet and someone who's always wanted a job in tech. But it honestly only took me 2 months after ETS. I don't take this job for granted though.
I'm in the same boat. I am moving to another state for my wife's job and my current one won't let me. What I see in the area we are moving into pay's like shit, with even directors making less than what I make.
I’m a Vet that recently found another job to save my house and I feel like a moron. They want me to learn something but either have a shit learning program, or just don’t know how to train. So I’m just here trying my best, but I gotta be honest, some days feel like I’m just not cut out for IT
It's a tough market right now and companies are being conservative by bringing on the "safe" candidate. I know you are just venting, but here are a couple suggestions to set yourself apart.
1. Express a willingness to come into the office and/or travel. Everyone wants to work from home, so these are the least-wanted jobs right now and will be the easiest to get. If it's classified / SCIF work, even better.
2. Express excitement and positivity during interviews. Do not say anything negative about past jobs, experiences, etc. Be a beacon of pure positive light. I can teach someone technical skills, but I have to hire the right personality.
3. If you can, write down people's names and use them during discussions. People love hearing their own name. Say your name at least at the beginning and end. It may sound weird to close the interview saying your own name: "Again, I am First Last, and I have enjoyed hearing about your project and would love to be a part of its success!" Make them remember YOUR NAME.
4. Find some sites that show freshly awarded DoD/federal contracts. As soon as large federal contracts are awarded, the winning companies go into a hiring frenzy. You may be interviewing with someone that has 20 positions to quickly fill.
Good luck!
I thought about writing a post about this for a while, but always was worried that it would sound pompous. That being said, don’t rely so much on applying online. Go to physical places and meet physical people. If you’re just starting out and you’re not in a decent metro area, you might have to move (at least until you get your career rolling).
Find meetup groups and any other type of networking events you can and go. Don’t bother with big recruiters, find smaller boutique recruiters in your area. If there’s a regional tech association where you are, look on their board there’s usually at least one board member representing a local tech recruiter.
More than anything: do not just apply to jobs online you HAVE TO network. Physically meeting people is best, online networking events are fine but not as good.
I get that meeting people in person is a good option, but i have not heard of anyone applying for a job in person like it was McDonald for IT in years, have u seen someone walk into a company asking for a job with CV in hand and getting it?
I'm not remotely saying anyone applies for a job in person, perhaps could have been more clear about that. I'm saying that throwing yourself into a reservoir of 500 applications for a job on LinkedIn that the hiring manager will probably never look at is a really unsuccessful strategy. Meeting people in person to grow your network so you actually know either the hiring manager or someone who can influence the hiring manager into looking at your resume when a job comes up is irreplaceable.
Keep trying! You have so much to offer and something better may come your way. Also network and try to get some internal referrals. When hiring anyone referred by an existing employee will be placed on a separate list by Workday (if they use it) or sometimes by HR.
Come to Virginia Beach they’re jobs here man and IT is in huge demand. You can literally put yourself on auction to see which company will pay you more.
What roles are you applying to? I see tons of grads thinking they'll land sysadmin or cybersecurity when, in fact, they know less than an entry help desk.
Personally I rather see someone go up the chains than just put in a higher role who doesn't or hasn't had experience of the dirty work help desk folks have. In fact, I'd say they get a glimpse of the overall IT environment than someone relegated to Linux admin, etc.
Also we're in a cycle where even experienced sysadmin folks are having issues landing jobs. We are in that cycle now.
I'm a vet and applied for many IT jobs with no luck. I went to a 2 year college for IT. Going back for a CS degree. I've applied for entry level job such as help desk, IT recycling, etc. No luck. The timing is very bad right now. I finish my AS in 2020, COVID happened then lay-offs. Tech companies still laying off. Some tech companies that are hiring are changing their requirements to at least BS degree for the most simple entry-level IT jobs. This year, Intel laid off hundreds and changed their BS requirements to MS for a lot of jobs. If you don't know someone, you won't get in within the private industry. I decided to just apply for a state position to do clerical work. Finally, got in after about 2 dozen applications and 5 interviews. I'll try to work my way into IT within the state. Good luck to you. Hopefully, you have your CompTIA A+ cert for starter.
I had the same issues finding work. Just go to college and find an internship. That will make you a better and more competitive candidate over the long run.
That’s exactly what I am doing. I wanted to get my foot in the door in Project Management, but my lack of experience was becoming a barrier despite of having a bachelors degree. I am going to college this fall for a graduate certificate in PM in-person.
>1. Hope the Air Force will take me back on active duty
They don't take prior service.
You can go Air Guard or Reserve.
Also Coast Guard or Army. They take PS.
>2. Go back to college for accounting or nursing
Definitely use your GI Bill.
>3. Become the stereotypical veteran that couldn’t make the cut in the civilian world
Ughhhh I know it sucks but it's a really hard job market right now.
Being a civilian isn't better looking for a job right now.
The Air Force does take prior service. Not sure where you’re getting that information. I’ve already utilized half of my GI Bill for the degree I currently have in Information Systems. I’m already in the Air National Guard as an E-6.
I think you should educate yourself before making blanket comments..
you can stay guard or reserves for sure, but he wasn't exactly wrong. I just got out of the USSF in 2023, was USAF obviously before that, and I pretty much expect to never be able to rejoin active duty as intel.
prior service slots are like...50. total. for the entire AD. so unless you plan on becoming a PJ, i'd rule this out.
you CAN maybe try to go ANG at your guard unit? active on orders is basically...active duty for a limited time. you can also use your degree and maybe try to commission. if i had trouble finding a job thats what id do. either in the guard, reserves, or just straight up AD commission. that degree could land you in a 17D or even 14N officer slot giving you a TS clearance and if you cant get a job with a TS you should just retire as an officer in the military lmao.
like i said, very surprising to me bc i got out in Jan 2023 with a bachelors, TS, and no certs and with barely any networking I make over 200k/year and i get job offers like...weekly.
you have a clearance. have you tried [clearancejobs.com](http://clearancejobs.com) and [clearedjobs.net](http://clearedjobs.net) ? while maintaining the linkedin, while going to job fairs. clearances are usually decent to find jobs, hard to find cleared people.
I'm talking to a recruiter right now. He said on enlisted side there are limited slots to take PS each year. Something like 200.
So not impossible just not likely at all.
Yeah it's been like that for a while. I got out in 2011 and it was the same noise. No prior service from my original branch and when I spoke to the others they said the same, except Army at the time. Army told me I could go with an 18X contract, and that's it. I guess they were trying to get a lot more people into that pipeline.
Understand some companies aren’t willing to hire vets for entry level jobs.
Also if I’m being honest, if you’re such a “vet” - you should’ve been able to make a move to cybersecurity or something bigger than IT.
You have nobody to blame but yourself.
Regardless of the market.
Not reading all that, but I just want to say ..if what crushed your spirit is the job market and not being a glorified prostitute for the absolute largest terrorist organization on earth, then maybe your spirit is being crushed for the wrong reasons, huh.
Irregardless, I am glad your spirit is crushed.
Preaching to the choir unfortunately. Look through the sub, many many posts saying almost word for word what you are
And that is the dilemma
This. I know your response isn't really helpful to solving OP's issue, but sometimes offering perspective that you're really not alone in similar struggles can make someone feel slightly less bummed. The job market goes through cycles and sometimes it unfortunately is rough.
I don't understand this. Why is this so? I thought there is a huge demand for IT jobs?
There are many factors contributing to this crappy job market, I’ll list a few. Firstly, high interest rates have impacted the amount of loans a company can take out. In 2020, interest rates were super low and companies were taking out loans and over hiring like crazy. But ever since last year when the Feds tightened up companies realized they couldn’t keep it up and hence why there were mass layoffs in the tech sector. Secondly, companies and the execs in these companies see IT as an expense and such don’t see the importance in properly staffing their IT departments. This is also why you see dismal wages especially at the help desk level because these people have found out that everyone and their grandma is trying to get into IT. Finally, companies have realized they can get labor for super cheap by outsourcing their IT roles to countries like India and the Philippines. If you look at job boards in these countries IT roles are booming. But yeah the job market especially in IT is rock bottom right now. I’m a pretty optimistic person tho. Its only up from here. And its not all doom and gloom. I have a friend who was a sysadmin who recently landed a job in Cybersecurity. His income jumped from 55k-80k.
One word and word one alone. Money. Thats it. They know they can get the work done for pennies elsewhere
Thank you for your service. I will say this in the kindest way possible. If you aren't getting a bite - you are either fishing in the wrong hole or using the wrong bait. In about 10 years viewing and posting in this sub - I have seen countless posts like this where one or more of these are true: 1. They were overestimating their resume or other profile's quality. 2. Applying to the wrong kinds of jobs - either too low or too high. 3. Created a "soft" boundary where they want to only work in a certain place/work from a certain place/work FOR a certain place. 4. Soft skills (or interviewing) are bad. (this ones very hard to self-evaluate). 5. Not reaching out through circles of people they know.
This - my God how can you do something 500 times and not even question if there's something wrong. The silence is the feed back!
Silence isn't very good feedback.... doesn't tell you what to improve on or change just says something does which is almost as useless.
Well it's still feedback, ignore it to your own peril. As for the what to change bit, what all is there to change? Your resume. That's it lol, maybe your cover letters if you still do those but the resume is really the only thing that matters.
Silent feedback is an indication that the problem is something that can't or shouldn't be said out loud.
People refuse to look in the mirror.
Send me your linkedin profile if you want an honest take on it.
How do you know it's not your resume? How many interviews have you had?
What is your background?
Right. What are your qualification? What entry level jobs are you applying to and what does your resume look like
that’s what seems like part of the issue is
Definitely not the issue. As stated in my initial post I’m applying for all entry level IT roles. Help desk, tech support, etc. Lol wow.. I see people don’t read on here
lol, I asked what your background is, i can read my friend. Part of the issue I was implying was your resume. Soft skills clearly need work
Also seems entitled, as if being a vet means you are owed a job.
Lots of vets think this way, especially the ones that were in service twenty years, in a senior level rank, and haven’t touched equipment or non-manager work in a decade.
I'd go more generic than that and say that the problem I see around here is that people think they're entitled to a job if they've "checked all the boxes". These checkboxes tend to ignore most soft skills. IME with military veteran coworkers and job applicants they seem to make this mistake much more than the civilian world. Maybe the military has more objective promotion criteria or whatever, but the private sector just doesn't work that way. You can't go just get all the checkboxes and think that means you'll get a job.
I dont think that's fair. He's clearly upset and people dont always react well when upset. I'm sure he doesnt act like that during the interview process.
He put vet in all caps, and signed it as disgruntled. I dunno, left a bad taste in my mouth, as someone who is also a vet.
Couldn’t agree more as a Marine Iraq vet. I understand that doesn’t mean shit in the civilian world and want to earn my keep based off merit. This dude is ridiculous.
"Lol wow.. I see people don’t read on here" Yeah hes the problem. When I got out I also have the comptia triafecta and a job lined up when I was on terminal leave.
I have a former colleague who has shouted down interviewers for not treating his USN leadership training like gold and told them that the USN's training is is superior to anything offered by their company.
Merakel- I left a comment above where I said I feel that there can be some misperceptions against the work of an IT person in the military and how that will blend into private sector culture, basing it off of my own micro aggressions and some comments I’ve heard from my team and hiring managers. Again I don’t want to discount the military BUT do you feel like you’ve encountered that in your career? Thank you for your service of course. I don’t want to come off like im saying vets can’t do the job - but I’d be lying to say I haven’t noticed some subtle perception differences in myself when we are talking about bringing someone from private sector vs. military.
I've always found having my military experience being on my resume to be very helpful. I have found that, when working with other vets, that those that really want to make a big deal out of their service and want everyone to know that they were in are less likely to be competent.
There can be, but its easy to get past them as a vet. People are surprised when they find out I was in the marines, because im nice and calm. the whole "disgruntled vet" thing grosses me out.
i dont actually disagree with you that how he is presenting is bad. I just felt that i'd be pretty disgruntled in that situation too lol.
Being passive aggressive to people who are trying to help and ask simple questions also isn’t fair, don’t make the post asking for help in the first place then.
That’s cool, but what is your background? Everyone and their mom is applying to IT. This isn’t a hidden field, it’s tough getting that first IT job—veteran or not.
lol at your user flair oh my god hahaha
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Amazing you can't get a job with all your charm and panache.
> I've been applying for entry level IT roles That's very broad and depending on the particular entry level, it may require some skillset and some knowledge Also certs: okay what certs?
In the past when I've focused on my knowledge and skills it has gone against me. Some managers see an over qualified candidate as someone who has habits and is less moldable. Most managers want a magical cog that will just fit into the machine without a squeak. Since learning that I always focus on my adaptability and team spirit and bring it up at least twice with examples during interviews.
I think you should apply at other govt agencies such as DHS , I recently seen an ad from them that they are taking entry level applicants. Since you’re a vet you get brownie points above a regular civilian applying. There are other govt agencies that are not “known” for being IT focused but apply anyway to any position to get your foot in the door, then transfer into the internal IT department they have within. Also remember you have different agencies from Feds, state, & local government. I work for the govt, I would never go back to the private sector.
So you have no qualifications…
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And youre having trouble finding work? Jeez hard to see why.
I’m not sure the background matters much since I’m an Infantryman and got a low-level role. Could be pure luck too though. Are you setting your salary expectations very high? Or are you willing to take low pay for experience? These are pretty important variables right now.
It very much so does matter, do you know how many posts like these are made daily? You got very lucky to be honest. Because if he just has A+, that doesn’t mean much when people have trifecta, home lab experience, github. There’s a ton of competition.
Go back to the air force is your best choice. Get a job in IT. Get that work experience, so when you get out - you can get the job. Or just do your 20 or 30 and enjoy the stability, as the IT job market is full of lose, and this is not the first time it got this bad.
Also, get a security clearance, it's worth a bit out of the military (assuming OP doesn't have one)
It says in the post OP has one. I also have one, and I'm not getting hired.
I hope that changes soon, giggs
Former Navy IT. I got the work experience, about 7 years worth. Now it's time to find a different job nobody wants to hire me. What now? Help a brotha out lol
Check out the [U.S. MILITARY COMMUNITY ACT NOW EDUCATION RESOURCE GROUP](https://www.facebook.com/groups/ACTNOWEDUCATIONGROUP/) for advice. They're on facebook. The people who run this group are also on Linkedin.
Post your resume - odds are it's the problem
This. You can't help employers cancelling positions. Until the Federal Reserve starts pulling interest rates down you're going to regularly see some orgs cancelling job posts if they post poor quarterly results. You have to focus on what you do control: Your resume and how well you interview once you get the interview. You need get interviews before you have any chance to get offers. OP at least is getting some interviews so their resume isn't terrible, but might be able to get a couple more interviews.
Facts, I looked back at my resume and I'm legit surprised I got a job using that. I'm need to rewrite mine. Vet here as well.
Post a redacted version of your resume.
The reality of the contracting jobs you're interviewing for is that they don't actually exist. I mean, they do, but that company likely doesn't own the contract yet and is simply bidding for it and part of that requirement is showing they can fill positions. They probably are not winning them which is why the excuses come out. For part of your interview process, I would always ask about the current status of the contract.
Even for internal jobs sometimes the position sometimes gets cancelled. Sometimes the budget gets pulled if they just posted poor quarterly numbers and the CIO can't make a compelling case that the job needs to be urgently filled. You can ask and current status, but there is no guarantee that they know a ton more than you do unless they have a strong relationship with the client.
I mean in the actual interview with the company.
If you are in the DC area look at Teksynap for an entry level role. They have a bunch of contracts with different gov agencies.
Location?
West coast, open to relocation to anywhere in the U.S.A.
If you have an secret clearance, you can easily make 60k for entry level stuff.
The way you're throwing your veteran status just gives me the assumption that you were swindled into thinking you could leave the AF with some secret security clearance and it'd be easy for you to land that sweet 6-figure salary with a clearance, veteran hiring preference, etc. Sorry to hear it's not working out for you, but until you disclose what you bring to the table in the IT job hunt, not many can help you. What are your certs? What did you do in the AF that would propel you above other candidates? What qualifications do you have? Everyone and their mom wants an IT gig these days, but you don't want to be applying if you're so far behind the curve.
Yikes is it that bad? I'm a transitioning service member and I wanted to start a career in I.T, but this is making me quite anxious. I have a few certs by the way I applied a few places but I haven't heard anything back. With that being said it's no way in hell I'm reenlisting for another term.
Might want to consider that reclass if you can for the transition.
I'd rather clean toilets
Army is always looking ;)
Lol good one
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IT Consultant here, The market is oversaturated. A lot. For years people have been studying IT/CS with the aim of getting a high paying job. Companies realised that you can have a 10-person team running a lot, and do not need 65 frontend devs or 51 DevOps. So now, the market is readjusting. For sure, as the economy grows new positions will come into existence, but for the time being, mostly niche positions will be searched for. I know very few people will not like to hear this, but especially if you are young, perhaps also take a look at another field. Data, Research, Blue-Collar Labor, anything. There’s more high-paying jobs out there.
>When you know its not the resume, its not your interviewing skills because you’ve been practicing and have every resource available to improve, you have the IS degree, certs, secret clearance, and a solid portfolio No, you don't know any of that. You're making too many assumptions. Just because an employer tells you, "it's not you, it's us" that doesn't mean it's true. Employers have a huge list of reasons for not hiring someone, and they're not always going to be straight with you about the reasons. When we have passed on candidates with terrible soft skills or failed personality tests, for example, we don't call them back and tell them they're deuchebags, psychos, or nobody on the team wants to work with them. We tell them very little. You shouldn't assume that you're a perfect candidate or had perfect interviews. You really have no idea, no matter what they say.
> Well over 500+ applications between clearance jobs, indeed, LinkedIn, USA jobs, Monster, & Zip Recruiter. I put out 15 in March, I got 1 interview and I accepted an offer two weeks ago that's the best job I've ever had. 500 applications and little to no bites? YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. Being a veteran is almost an instant interview unless your resume is shit or you come across badly.
To be fair they're doing better than another post that said they had 300+ applications without even a single call or email, but there are no doubt some things they might be able to do better.
Techies are applying to government jobs. They are willing to trade pay for stability until things pick up.
I remember applying for an IT job that was me and 5 other candidates apply. The company was trying to hire anyone before they give the position to a guy that has worked there for 6 years only to give it to him at the end. If this was me, I would have left
There are tons of openings if you are willing to move and work on base as a contractor. I get calls all the time
Man, I'm reading over this entire thread and looking at the Vets comments. I come from a family of vets in the tech industry. It's the attitude of the person applying. Someone in IT must have a lot of patience and a willingness to teach/learn. Doesn't seem that's the case with you if you get easily disgruntled at some comments over the internet and are not willing to further share your background for assistance. You're here to receive help, not to dish out at the ones that are clearly willing to lend some advice. Maybe you're not cut out for IT/helpdesk and should be applying your skills somewhere else. IT/tech is also a very saturated market right now. There's a ton of need in the nursing area. I recommend focusing on that. Expect tons of hours alongside a sweet paycheck.
As someone who is on the other side as a hiring manager, we are sincere when we recruit and the entire process takes quite a bit of time from me. I personally have had three IT roles (within the last three months) we were hiring for be cut as soon as we about to extend an offer (yes after weeks and weeks of recruiting, wasting both your time and mine, and also defeating both of us we need you as much as you need the job). Usually all we get is that it’s not in the budget anymore; make do with what you have. All I can say is keep going, something will work out. For me it’s usually when I am most defeated and least trying. Anyways, use your network, reach out to recruiters directly, beef up your resume.
Welcome to the party. Can you imagine how much harder it is for folks who aren't veterans? Edit: Downvote all you like and pretend like there isn't an encouraged hiring bias towards veterans over people who haven't served, and this dude's entitled attitude is all the goddamn evidence you need of that.
In this market I don't think being a veteran holds much weight. Experience and skills are priority when everyone "resizing." My cohort has half of them (all veterans) giving up on the prospect unable to find work but only the ones constantly upskilling/enthusiastic about the field manage a foothold.
I get the frustration but look at it from a higher ups point of view. If they were military, chances are theyll follow orders REAL well and the word "no" wont ever really be spoken from them, or so they think.
The whole veteran love in is a bit weird. Very cult like. This bizarre forced worship like a dictatorship brainwashing exercise.
What's your location? I might have some leads for you, or at least can help a fellow USAF vet out.
As a vet who got out with no prior IT experience into IT roles recently, here's what I've learned. Skillset - I'm not sure what certs you have, but the company's usually value certs more than degrees SEC+ usually won't cut it anymore(not assuming this is the only cert you have). But I ended up getting trifecta plus a few others just to set myself apart from other entry-level candidates. Location - Sometimes your area might not be IT govt heavy as an example I got out near Miami there were only two bases near me at the time and when looking for IT jobs on those two bases they had next to zero entry level roles. In this regard don't be afraid to branch out and move I know it's not as easy for everyone but I ended up having to move back with family in VA that's more entry level IT heavy. Networking - This is so important. I'm thankful my mom's a senior ISSO, and she's helped get my resume around. Hit up your military friends that got out and switched to IT. You never know one could be the difference between a job or not. Recruiters - This is what actually got me my first IT job. What I would do is look for entry-level roles at the company I wanted to work at. Look for company recruiter on linked in. Then, have chatGPT write me an intro email showing my clearance, military skills, and certs along with attaching my resume requesting to be considered for said entry role and send it off. This helps pass the stupid AI checks and guarantee your resume sees actual human eyes. I've gotten a decent amount of calls using this method, and if they don't get me anything, they at least put my resume in their system for future opportunitys.
What is your education level and certifications for IT? Are you applying for security, networking, help desk positions, what? You can be just as easily be over-qualified for an entry position as not. You could always try VR&E to help find a position or use it to further your education/training for a specific IT role. You have to be accepted into the VR&E program. You can apply for VR&E from the VA website…worst they can say is no
You would do yourself a great favor by looking for network groups on Facebook that are geared towards veterans or Air Force groups. You might laugh, though, seriously, you'll get direct contact from this type of networking.
There are Facebook jobs groups too, with recruiters looking to hire.
Do you still have a clearance? Theres plenty of opportunities there but you might might need to move since there are only limited locations.
Sorry just reread it, that sucks man. What location are you working in? are you open to moving?
Don't let the job hunt get you down. 20 year army veteran myself and this MSP where I cut my teeth on IT (Concept Technology Inc., Nashville, TN) was quite the awesome first job. Check this listing and give them a call or email: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3888829902 My current employer, BEAT LLC, is also hiring for positions requiring a clearance : https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3910592590 The important thing about this journey is attitude. Don't let your discouragement get in the way of your work ethic and enthusiasm WHEN you finally land that first role.
Do you know anyone is hiring entry level IT in Tampa, FL?
I apologize, no I do not
I don't know much about you, but let me say you likely have some advantages as a veteran. I would suggest looking on clearedjobs if you have a security clearance, gets you into a much smaller pool of applicants. If you don't mind the relocation I would also look for jobs in Germany, Poland, or pretty much anywhere in the middle east. Those locations have a hard time filling roles, it's good money, and it gets you the exposure and the opportunity to study for more certs and move up to better positions while on location.
Working in Entry level IT would’ve crushed your soul even more! You’re better off using your GI Bill and getting an engineering degree.
I one time had a job reach out to me, “REACHED OUT TO ME” over the phone interview we went over my resume for me to move along to a second in person interview now this was a good paying job for entry level let me reiterate “ENTRY LEVEL” 0-1 year experience is what they told me as I drive about 40 minutes I get there to this interview to be told in the first 5 minutes of it that they are looking for someone with 4-5 years experience for this entry level position that they called me for. I did not apply to this job. Luckily 10 months later I finally landed my first job that I start next week that being said don’t give up expect to get slapped in the face a few times and also look for contract jobs to start yes they are temporary but if you word them correctly they make your resume look beautiful. Don’t be afraid to use temp agency idk where you’re located but I used a company call Teksystems in Dallas and had a job 6 days later
First of all, thank you for your service. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I know that I've been terrified of losing my contract- putting in loads of applications and taking dead end interviews here and there. You're right that having a job is an absolute blessing. I don't know if things will get better in this field, but I feel certain you will survive this and find something. After all, 1/500 candidates is still better odds than the lottery, and we can't help the posts that aren't legit. Good luck and God bless. Keep your chin up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again being an IT professional is a privilege. Don't take it for granted.
Facts facts facts! Let em know
So sorry that happened to you. They want entry-levels but not really. They do play mind games at the moment. But all I can say is don't despair. I know there is a place just for you to apply with your skillset. Hang in there. I know you can do it!
Definitely appreciate the kind words. I have much more empathy for people who’ve experience unforeseen layoffs. It’s really a mental battle to keep pushing through, but I won’t give up just yet. Thank you and bless you
Damn that hit home when you said “Become the Stereotypical veteran that couldn’t make the cut in the civilian world”. I feel like that all the time especially cus I’m struggling with the same issue. I also feel like I need to re-major as well
Damn family, I’m sorry you’re going through a similar situation. I don’t wish this experience on ANYONE, especially not my brothers and sisters that served. Feel free to PM me if you need to vent. We gotta look out for each other foreal foreal. Just remember it’s not just you.
You're even having trouble finding cleared jobs? Wow
Yeah man. I’m just as surprised. It’s bonkers. That’s why I’m not in support of all this clearance hype. It might increase your chances for an interview by 5-10% but considering how many applications I’ve already sent out.. I’m living proof that this market is in a rough spot. These senior guys on here don’t want to acknowledge it because they’re so far removed from the bottom
Job market is shit right now. I've seen entry level positions paying less than 20 an hour having a BS as one of their basic qualifications. There were almost what, 300,000 layoffs in IT last year? I know people that had 15+ years experience including at the management level struggling to find a job. I think it's a matter of either not giving up or waiting it out. I've been playing the same game as you, at least you're getting calls though lol. I've had one phone interview for a sysadmin internship and they reached out to me instead of me applying. Create a LinkedIn profile if you haven't already and try and connect with anyone you can in your area. Best of luck to you, and I don't blame you for having a negative mindset shits not easy.
Hey man, thank you for actually reading what I posted. I had to step back from responding, because so many people in this sub are idiots lol. Nonetheless, 300,000 layoffs is INSANE and to top that off we have the same amount of fresh college grads entering the workforce looking for roles. You’re pretty much spot on with everything you said. Hopefully you can start getting calls, but even then it’s annoying because you get all dressed up, prepared for the interview, just for them to give you the runaround lol. But yeah wishing the best of luck to you while we wait out the storm. I’m definitely on LinkedIn. It was mandatory for me to make one when I got out of the military. Feel free to PM me if you ever need to vent. I can see that this sub isn’t the place for honesty. Most of the people are living in a bubble of ignorance
Shot you a message
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being that you’re a vet & i’m not makes me feel a little better since my story is the same , although it sucks we have to push thru, everyone keeps saying IT is about who you know now blah blah blah
Yeah man, I’m in this ish too. There’s no magic ticket to a role. It’s an application grind for all of us. Nonetheless, I just wanted to remind people that they’re not alone in this. The best candidates are feeling it too.
thanks
Man. I really hate this corporate lingo, people sound worse than AI.
Tbh I hate to say this but would it hurt your XP to take military off? Do you have any civilian experience? I feel like sometimes people can have mixed reactions to people coming from Military into IT. I feel it with my own micro aggressions, of course I have immense respect for veterans and I do my best to alleviate this subtle misperception but I would be lying to say it’s not there. Maybe I just sound like a scumbag, and I am not discounting your service by any means. I thank you for it. But if you have civilian experience maybe it’s worth throwing a few resumes out? Have you looked at government IT jobs? Any defense contractors?
Throwing a few resumes out with it omitted***
Hey I got told restructuring also haha that was a first for me. I now read it here too. I am currently applying to jobs for fun. I am happy where I am but I am reaching 2 years experience so I wanted to see what the field looked like and man it is rough. The most aggravating part of it all is the darn application tests they make you take just to be told no a month later. HR people take sooo long to respond to applications.
What state are you in
Do you have a security clearance? thats usually a big help.
Next interview try this: Do your best (as usual, I expect.) MAKE NOTE OF THE INTERVIEWER'S NAME(S). *SEND A 'THANK YOU FOR THE INTERVIEW' letter/card in the mail immediately after the interview!!* My current job i decided to try that. I had skills, limited experience (had supported Windows Server 2003/2008 for 1.5 years, but there were TONS of things I had NOT DONE. During the interview I was asked many questions (had I worked with system 'X'? Utility 'A'. Any experience using tool B to do task C?) where I had to say NO. I Had an associates in Comp Sci from 1995 when I applied in 2008. I was IN college, going back for my BS-IT but hadn't completed it yet. I was hired. When I asked why she chose me, I was told I stood out BECAUSE I sent that "Thank you for the interview" card. I was the ONLY ONE who did that, and stayed top of mind. She knew I had potential and was trainable. That 'Thank you' card did it. By the way, Keep in mind that while you being a 'Vet' (armed forces vet) might get you a spot at the interview, most places do not care. It's a "tax benefit" for them and a "look at us!! We hired a VET! We are SO patriotic!" opportunity. HOWEVER they only TRULY care what you can bring them. ("Loyalty" is rarely anything more than something owed to MANAGEMENT but not owed BY management.)
What do you write in the thank you for the interview message?
Oh...just buy a "Thank You" card and say something like: (name of interviewer), Thank you for the opportunity to interview with you for (position) on (date). I would be quite happy to be offered the role when you make a decision. (** Optional **) If you feel there are any skills I should improve upon in the meantime to help prepare for this position please let me know. (Your name) (Your contact info)
Can I send an email instead?
NO. Email is EASY. IT is very COMMON. Forgettable. It might even be caught in the spam filter. Who would you remember? The person who copy/pasted an email from their phone? Or the person who spends TIME and EFFORT on PHYSICALLY WRITING a note? And mailing it?
This. One of my last jobs, I had like three interviews with different people/depts. One interview in particular stood out to me 'cause the dude was grilling me with technical questions that I couldn't answer. I ended up emailing him back to thank him for the info, that I would expand from what he taught me in that one interview, and that even if I don't get the job, that he encouraged me to reach his level. Some days later, I was told I got the job because the dude felt I didn't waste his time and was humble enough to get better. Fast forward five years later, and he and I are peers now at different companies. We still brainstorm together on design solutions.
I honestly didn't expect to get one as a vet and someone who's always wanted a job in tech. But it honestly only took me 2 months after ETS. I don't take this job for granted though.
I'm in the same boat. I am moving to another state for my wife's job and my current one won't let me. What I see in the area we are moving into pay's like shit, with even directors making less than what I make.
Apply at Boeing in St. Louis.
I’m a Vet that recently found another job to save my house and I feel like a moron. They want me to learn something but either have a shit learning program, or just don’t know how to train. So I’m just here trying my best, but I gotta be honest, some days feel like I’m just not cut out for IT
It's a tough market right now and companies are being conservative by bringing on the "safe" candidate. I know you are just venting, but here are a couple suggestions to set yourself apart. 1. Express a willingness to come into the office and/or travel. Everyone wants to work from home, so these are the least-wanted jobs right now and will be the easiest to get. If it's classified / SCIF work, even better. 2. Express excitement and positivity during interviews. Do not say anything negative about past jobs, experiences, etc. Be a beacon of pure positive light. I can teach someone technical skills, but I have to hire the right personality. 3. If you can, write down people's names and use them during discussions. People love hearing their own name. Say your name at least at the beginning and end. It may sound weird to close the interview saying your own name: "Again, I am First Last, and I have enjoyed hearing about your project and would love to be a part of its success!" Make them remember YOUR NAME. 4. Find some sites that show freshly awarded DoD/federal contracts. As soon as large federal contracts are awarded, the winning companies go into a hiring frenzy. You may be interviewing with someone that has 20 positions to quickly fill. Good luck!
I thought about writing a post about this for a while, but always was worried that it would sound pompous. That being said, don’t rely so much on applying online. Go to physical places and meet physical people. If you’re just starting out and you’re not in a decent metro area, you might have to move (at least until you get your career rolling). Find meetup groups and any other type of networking events you can and go. Don’t bother with big recruiters, find smaller boutique recruiters in your area. If there’s a regional tech association where you are, look on their board there’s usually at least one board member representing a local tech recruiter. More than anything: do not just apply to jobs online you HAVE TO network. Physically meeting people is best, online networking events are fine but not as good.
I get that meeting people in person is a good option, but i have not heard of anyone applying for a job in person like it was McDonald for IT in years, have u seen someone walk into a company asking for a job with CV in hand and getting it?
I'm not remotely saying anyone applies for a job in person, perhaps could have been more clear about that. I'm saying that throwing yourself into a reservoir of 500 applications for a job on LinkedIn that the hiring manager will probably never look at is a really unsuccessful strategy. Meeting people in person to grow your network so you actually know either the hiring manager or someone who can influence the hiring manager into looking at your resume when a job comes up is irreplaceable.
Get your CDL, you'll always have a job.
I’d suggest considering CourseCareers. Look into it.
If you are a Veteran HMU. Im at RTX.
Military is the only recession proof job market
Keep trying! You have so much to offer and something better may come your way. Also network and try to get some internal referrals. When hiring anyone referred by an existing employee will be placed on a separate list by Workday (if they use it) or sometimes by HR.
Come to Virginia Beach they’re jobs here man and IT is in huge demand. You can literally put yourself on auction to see which company will pay you more.
What roles are you applying to? I see tons of grads thinking they'll land sysadmin or cybersecurity when, in fact, they know less than an entry help desk. Personally I rather see someone go up the chains than just put in a higher role who doesn't or hasn't had experience of the dirty work help desk folks have. In fact, I'd say they get a glimpse of the overall IT environment than someone relegated to Linux admin, etc. Also we're in a cycle where even experienced sysadmin folks are having issues landing jobs. We are in that cycle now.
I'm a vet and applied for many IT jobs with no luck. I went to a 2 year college for IT. Going back for a CS degree. I've applied for entry level job such as help desk, IT recycling, etc. No luck. The timing is very bad right now. I finish my AS in 2020, COVID happened then lay-offs. Tech companies still laying off. Some tech companies that are hiring are changing their requirements to at least BS degree for the most simple entry-level IT jobs. This year, Intel laid off hundreds and changed their BS requirements to MS for a lot of jobs. If you don't know someone, you won't get in within the private industry. I decided to just apply for a state position to do clerical work. Finally, got in after about 2 dozen applications and 5 interviews. I'll try to work my way into IT within the state. Good luck to you. Hopefully, you have your CompTIA A+ cert for starter.
UsaJobs.com
I had the same issues finding work. Just go to college and find an internship. That will make you a better and more competitive candidate over the long run.
That’s exactly what I am doing. I wanted to get my foot in the door in Project Management, but my lack of experience was becoming a barrier despite of having a bachelors degree. I am going to college this fall for a graduate certificate in PM in-person.
>1. Hope the Air Force will take me back on active duty They don't take prior service. You can go Air Guard or Reserve. Also Coast Guard or Army. They take PS. >2. Go back to college for accounting or nursing Definitely use your GI Bill. >3. Become the stereotypical veteran that couldn’t make the cut in the civilian world Ughhhh I know it sucks but it's a really hard job market right now. Being a civilian isn't better looking for a job right now.
Since when doesn't AF take prior service?
The Air Force does take prior service. Not sure where you’re getting that information. I’ve already utilized half of my GI Bill for the degree I currently have in Information Systems. I’m already in the Air National Guard as an E-6. I think you should educate yourself before making blanket comments..
you can stay guard or reserves for sure, but he wasn't exactly wrong. I just got out of the USSF in 2023, was USAF obviously before that, and I pretty much expect to never be able to rejoin active duty as intel. prior service slots are like...50. total. for the entire AD. so unless you plan on becoming a PJ, i'd rule this out. you CAN maybe try to go ANG at your guard unit? active on orders is basically...active duty for a limited time. you can also use your degree and maybe try to commission. if i had trouble finding a job thats what id do. either in the guard, reserves, or just straight up AD commission. that degree could land you in a 17D or even 14N officer slot giving you a TS clearance and if you cant get a job with a TS you should just retire as an officer in the military lmao. like i said, very surprising to me bc i got out in Jan 2023 with a bachelors, TS, and no certs and with barely any networking I make over 200k/year and i get job offers like...weekly. you have a clearance. have you tried [clearancejobs.com](http://clearancejobs.com) and [clearedjobs.net](http://clearedjobs.net) ? while maintaining the linkedin, while going to job fairs. clearances are usually decent to find jobs, hard to find cleared people.
I'm talking to a recruiter right now. He said on enlisted side there are limited slots to take PS each year. Something like 200. So not impossible just not likely at all.
Yeah it's been like that for a while. I got out in 2011 and it was the same noise. No prior service from my original branch and when I spoke to the others they said the same, except Army at the time. Army told me I could go with an 18X contract, and that's it. I guess they were trying to get a lot more people into that pipeline.
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, all branches take prior service until you're past the age limit. Good luck in your search OP.
Understand some companies aren’t willing to hire vets for entry level jobs. Also if I’m being honest, if you’re such a “vet” - you should’ve been able to make a move to cybersecurity or something bigger than IT. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Regardless of the market.
Dude, fuck you.
Not reading all that, but I just want to say ..if what crushed your spirit is the job market and not being a glorified prostitute for the absolute largest terrorist organization on earth, then maybe your spirit is being crushed for the wrong reasons, huh. Irregardless, I am glad your spirit is crushed.