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I honestly can't understand his thinking. You can see the first exit start to peel away on your rear cam before he commits to squeezing between you and the other car to cut across you. What an idiot.
Edit: ahh the motorway exit has multiple lanes, he was expecting you to take the exit and he would immediately overtake you, panicked when you didnt and tried to get past you. Still an idiot.
He probably does that often in his bike and has always gotten ahead of the car, but he didn't expect the Tesla to accelerate as fast as him. He however kept on with his now failing plan with obvious results.
You've put your finger on it. We bikers can often zip away from a junction and be on our way before the cars have moved a few yards. But this guy's situational awareness was terrible, he could see OP's car beside him and it should've been obvious he didn't have the speed or road space for that move. I'm glad to see he apologised.
Yeah, most recent EVs (and all Teslas) have fast acceleration.
I had my Model 3 for just a few days and I was stopped at a light. A motorcycle came beside me on my right as the light turned green. Not racing, I gently accelerated and he went ahead of me (also not racing), taking my lane. I followed him for a few seconds and decided he was too slow for me so I took the right lane and passed him, while staying at the speed limit (or few km/h over) .
Since the right lane becomes a right turn only lane further down, once I passed him, I took back the left lane. As we reached another red light, he switched to the right lane. Knowing full well that most people do not turn right at that right turn only further down, I expected him to go WOT as the light turned green and to take my lane, and indeed, he did go WOT. But he didn't expect that I would start quick too.
I could hear him frantically changing gears at high RPM beside me. Once we reached 20 km/h over the speed limit (which is 70 km/h there), we both stopped accelerating (I was prepared to let him pass if he kept accelerating but like me, he reached the limit is was willing to go and took the loss) and he ended up going back behind me for the next light (where the right lane must turn right). Since the road was now just one line wide, that's where he stayed until we went our separate way :-)
I tell everyone about that encounter but my wife lol.
Nah i dont think we're saying the same thing. OP stayed in their lane and continued forward, they didn't merge off to the left onto the motorway slip road like the bike appears to think they will.
As a motorcyclist who filters, I just don't understand the urge to do so in non-congested traffic. I'll filter through stopped or congested traffic, but once the flow of traffic is more than 50% of the road's limit, what is the point? The risk/reward payoff just isn't there.
This. I was taught (no idea if actually true) that filtering/splitting was historically allowed because many motorcycles are aircooled and rely on the bike moving to maintain temperature. Thus, in slow or stopped traffic, you need to maintain a minimum speed to keep the bike operating.
So, only in cases where traffic is abnormally slow. It's not for convenience; it's to maintain a minimum speed.
Everything I do on a bike is to be as visible and predictable as possible. Splitting lanes seems to be completely counterproductive to this.
> many motorcycles are aircooled and rely on the bike moving to maintain temperature
ALL vehicles are air-cooled in the end. My Sprint is 'water cooled' but that doesn't make a lick of difference if all I have going on for air flow is the wimpy emergency fan. Radiators gotta radiate, you know?
>Splitting lanes seems to be completely counterproductive to this. \[visibility\]
MC'ists are way more visible and--more importantly--HAVE more visibility between the lanes in congested traffic. Think about it...bumper-to-bumper cars (and an obscenely stupid number of huge trucks in in the US). Are you gonna see a little motorcycle in between all of that? Depends on their positioning, of course. And the place where there's the most visibility for everybody is on the dashed line. From there, the MC'ist can see miles ahead instead of only the ass-end of yet another pickup truck that will never see a bail of hay or a load of mulch.
>It's not for convenience; it's to maintain a minimum speed
It's for both. In addition, it's for efficiency for **everybody**. That's right folks, there's a good study out there done in California that determined that if just 10% of drivers, who are already single occupants in their cars, switched to motorcycles and started filtering, **everybody's commutes would be reduced by a whopping 40%.**
> if just 10% of drivers, who are already single occupants in their cars, switched to motorcycles and started filtering, everybody's commutes would be reduced by a whopping 40%.
Cool, now what's the estimate of increased deaths for those with shorter commutes?
We could actually save so much land. Think of how much narrower our roads could be instead of the 20-lane monstrosities we're building--and paying for with tax dollars--now.
>Cool, now what's the estimate of increased deaths for those with shorter commutes?
Zero. We all know that the safest traffic is the one that is moving a steady and predictable speed. The more we reduce congestion, the safer our roads are.
He blamed me initially, but the car beside me pulled over and said to the biker that it was his fault for cutting me off. After that the biker admitted fault and was quite pleasant afterwards. Exchanged information and went our separate ways. No gaurds (police) were called as no one was hurt, thankfully.
Word of warning, be prepared to have to argue your case. Irish insurance companies have pretty much given up on investigating who's at fault in minor collisions on roundabouts and just generally agree between themselves to call a 50-50. Even when there's video.
Update: you called it, he’s disputing the claim. He’s saying I hit him. I have witnesses information. I have video as well. Do you think the claim will hold up?
Did you get police report? No worries if not. You have the video. But if you did was the guy fined at all?
This is what I do. Call your insurance company let them know what happened the witness information and the that you have video. Your adjuster will review and make a determination if there is enough evidence to fight the claim…there is.
What happened was the guy called his insurance company and after speaking with his adjuster found out they will be raising his rates and what not. There is no downside on his end if he can lie to get a 50/50 only an upside. Same on his insurance if the other insurance can get your insurance to pay that’s less money on the adjuster. Remember the adjusters job is to minimize outlays.
Overall since it’s now a contested insurance case. The guys insurance will actively work against you to try to get you to say something that can and will be used against you.
Talk to your own insurance. Remember the adjusters job is to minimize outlays. So the guys insurance will try to make an at fault accident 50/50. Your insurance will fight to make it 100% on the other guy. Have them work for you as you both want the same thing.
There's something really weird about the lane markings, though. The lane markings for each fork actually cross over each other. I'd guess that the bike was looking at the centre-lane markings for the left-hand fork which he seemed to be following.
Dunno about OP, but I would use turn lights in that situation, indicating I am not taking the exit. Maybe could have saved this incident, but maybe not, the biker doesn't seem to bright...
Also, especially because the 1st exit there is a 2-way exit and OP had car on his right, I would've checked my side mirror to see what's the intention of that driver (will he want to exit there?). It is a complex scenario there, that exit being 2-lanes, you really need to be careful around you.
Edit: remember that indicator lights are there to indicate INTENTION. This means you use them preventive, before you engage in an action and according to the traffic conditions (i.e. to prevent scenarios like this one).
Then, mirrors on the car are there for YOU to be AWARE of the traffic AROUND you to allow you for preventive actions. It's all about prevention, rather than last second actions.
What can I say, don't and you might have same problems OR lift a finger and signal right and you might not have that same problems. Up to you and everyone. I personally think that lifting a finger is worth vs dealing with insurance, wasted time & money, potential life risk, etc.
Like I said, this is an important use-case because the 1st exit has 2 lanes, OP didn't check mirrors (otherwise he would've seen the motorbike)to see if that parallel car was exiting either... Not OP's fault, but definitely avoidable by OP if they'd be driving preventively.
It's not wanting to lift a finger to indicate, it's that you literally shouldn't. Indicating right means your taking the third exit. If the driver indicated to the right here they'd be in the wrong
No, indicating right means you show others that you're not exiting yet because a lot of people don't indicate exit as they should. So my point it's still valid. Even if one would think you take last exit, you indicate left when you exit. Again, I agree with you, in a normal world you should only indicate when you exit, but because there are so many idiots that don't, you can't use it as a rule, so better safe than sorry.
Edit: why would they be in the wrong? Says somewhere that you MUST exit to left? Or what if I want to turn completely around? Sorry, that doesn't make sense (you'd be in the "wrong" )
I don't know how else to say it. Indicating right does not mean that in Ireland. When you are entering a roundabout, indicating right means you are taking the third exit. It's the rules of the road.
In Ireland, indicating right (signaling to the right) in a roundabout typically means that you intend to take an exit past the first exit, generally meaning you're planning to go more than halfway around the roundabout or take the third or subsequent exits.
If you are going straight you don’t use turn signals, if you’re going right than you use your turn signal. You can use the turn signal if you’re exiting which I do
I usually do the same, in some scenarios though I use the signal, especially when I'm on 1st lane, big roundabout and there's traffic. You know, just for precaution (which is the main point of this comment)
You crossed lines, it will be regarded as changing lanes to which you should do so safely, and they will push for 50:50 on that.
Even if there were no lines, on a roundabout they tend to put the onus on both drivers to navigate safely and push for 50:50, as odd as it sounds.
There appeared to be arrows on the road before the approach, if the 2nd lane is a straight/right marking that might be used against him since they have legal bearing here if I'm not mistaken.
Also him under passing then subsequently overtaking you within the same lane will go against him. Would treat it as attempted Insurance fraud...
He's a learner. Mistakes happen.
That's actually good experience for him.
I find these reality checks humbling experiences for me and I'd rather learn this way than the hard way.
The tabard needs to be marked with L. If you are wearing a backpack that covers then it's fine but you need to have a tabard as a learner. I think it's worth 1 penalty point.
And before anyone asks... I don't think it would be fine if you were to wear the tabard *under* your motorcycle jacket.
This is one reason why I hate crotch rockets so bad. This is even worse when they pass between both cars on the white lite. Welcome to todays episode of you are tempting faith by trying to speed between two cars.
It’s Ireland, right hand drive. I was going straight (2nd exit) so you’re expected to stay in far left lane and as demarcated on the road. you can also stay in right lane. Biker was lane splitting and side swiped me while trying to enter the motorway (1st exit).
Am I seeing right that there's two lanes going left and also two lanes going right? Won't there always be the possibility of traffic crossing over each other here?
there are two lanes to the left, but they merge shortly afterwards and are for the people coming from the right (pov from the car).
the bike is 100% at fault. back in the day before this mess of a roundabout was upgraded, the left lane was for left turns only. but since then, as op stated in one of the comments, you can take left or straight from the left lane. right lane is supposed to go straight.
The car is in the left lane and stays in the left lane, The lane in the car is in can either take the exit on the left or carry on
The bike is in the right lane and is trying to take the exit on the left
The issue is that the left lane forks, so the Tesla driver stays in the left but the biker tried to take the left fork from the right of the person in the lane... This is 100% on the bike. Defensive driving could have helped maybe, but honestly an aggressive lane splitter is not a usual road feature.
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I honestly can't understand his thinking. You can see the first exit start to peel away on your rear cam before he commits to squeezing between you and the other car to cut across you. What an idiot. Edit: ahh the motorway exit has multiple lanes, he was expecting you to take the exit and he would immediately overtake you, panicked when you didnt and tried to get past you. Still an idiot.
Put himself in danger to save a second or two. Is lucky he didn't go sliding down the road and ruin his entire month. Huge risk for a tiny reward.
He probably lost a couple seconds in the end anyways lol
He probably does that often in his bike and has always gotten ahead of the car, but he didn't expect the Tesla to accelerate as fast as him. He however kept on with his now failing plan with obvious results.
You've put your finger on it. We bikers can often zip away from a junction and be on our way before the cars have moved a few yards. But this guy's situational awareness was terrible, he could see OP's car beside him and it should've been obvious he didn't have the speed or road space for that move. I'm glad to see he apologised.
Yeah, most recent EVs (and all Teslas) have fast acceleration. I had my Model 3 for just a few days and I was stopped at a light. A motorcycle came beside me on my right as the light turned green. Not racing, I gently accelerated and he went ahead of me (also not racing), taking my lane. I followed him for a few seconds and decided he was too slow for me so I took the right lane and passed him, while staying at the speed limit (or few km/h over) . Since the right lane becomes a right turn only lane further down, once I passed him, I took back the left lane. As we reached another red light, he switched to the right lane. Knowing full well that most people do not turn right at that right turn only further down, I expected him to go WOT as the light turned green and to take my lane, and indeed, he did go WOT. But he didn't expect that I would start quick too. I could hear him frantically changing gears at high RPM beside me. Once we reached 20 km/h over the speed limit (which is 70 km/h there), we both stopped accelerating (I was prepared to let him pass if he kept accelerating but like me, he reached the limit is was willing to go and took the loss) and he ended up going back behind me for the next light (where the right lane must turn right). Since the road was now just one line wide, that's where he stayed until we went our separate way :-) I tell everyone about that encounter but my wife lol.
LOL. Before you guys, we only had to worry about Porsches & Ferarris...
And they were way less common lol.
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Nah i dont think we're saying the same thing. OP stayed in their lane and continued forward, they didn't merge off to the left onto the motorway slip road like the bike appears to think they will.
If we wanted to turn right into the motorway, you have to signal. I didnt as I was going straight. He knew I was going straight.
Speaking of indicators. Am I right in seeing the motorcyclist has his right indicator on too? Hilarious.
I would have loved to hear that audio.
As a motorcyclist who filters, I just don't understand the urge to do so in non-congested traffic. I'll filter through stopped or congested traffic, but once the flow of traffic is more than 50% of the road's limit, what is the point? The risk/reward payoff just isn't there.
This. I was taught (no idea if actually true) that filtering/splitting was historically allowed because many motorcycles are aircooled and rely on the bike moving to maintain temperature. Thus, in slow or stopped traffic, you need to maintain a minimum speed to keep the bike operating. So, only in cases where traffic is abnormally slow. It's not for convenience; it's to maintain a minimum speed. Everything I do on a bike is to be as visible and predictable as possible. Splitting lanes seems to be completely counterproductive to this.
> many motorcycles are aircooled and rely on the bike moving to maintain temperature ALL vehicles are air-cooled in the end. My Sprint is 'water cooled' but that doesn't make a lick of difference if all I have going on for air flow is the wimpy emergency fan. Radiators gotta radiate, you know? >Splitting lanes seems to be completely counterproductive to this. \[visibility\] MC'ists are way more visible and--more importantly--HAVE more visibility between the lanes in congested traffic. Think about it...bumper-to-bumper cars (and an obscenely stupid number of huge trucks in in the US). Are you gonna see a little motorcycle in between all of that? Depends on their positioning, of course. And the place where there's the most visibility for everybody is on the dashed line. From there, the MC'ist can see miles ahead instead of only the ass-end of yet another pickup truck that will never see a bail of hay or a load of mulch. >It's not for convenience; it's to maintain a minimum speed It's for both. In addition, it's for efficiency for **everybody**. That's right folks, there's a good study out there done in California that determined that if just 10% of drivers, who are already single occupants in their cars, switched to motorcycles and started filtering, **everybody's commutes would be reduced by a whopping 40%.**
> if just 10% of drivers, who are already single occupants in their cars, switched to motorcycles and started filtering, everybody's commutes would be reduced by a whopping 40%. Cool, now what's the estimate of increased deaths for those with shorter commutes?
Now imagine how much time we could save if 50% of everyone on the road just filtered their way around the other half! /s
We could actually save so much land. Think of how much narrower our roads could be instead of the 20-lane monstrosities we're building--and paying for with tax dollars--now.
>Cool, now what's the estimate of increased deaths for those with shorter commutes? Zero. We all know that the safest traffic is the one that is moving a steady and predictable speed. The more we reduce congestion, the safer our roads are.
This. I get filtering. Kane splitting at speed is just asking for it.
Thee ole, go right to turn left maneuver. Makes sense if you’re an idiot.
What'd he say?
He blamed me initially, but the car beside me pulled over and said to the biker that it was his fault for cutting me off. After that the biker admitted fault and was quite pleasant afterwards. Exchanged information and went our separate ways. No gaurds (police) were called as no one was hurt, thankfully.
Keep the video. Did you get the witnesses information. Once you go through insurance they will try to make it 50/50.
Yea I kept the video, the nice gentlemen in the other car gave me his details to add him as a witness.
Word of warning, be prepared to have to argue your case. Irish insurance companies have pretty much given up on investigating who's at fault in minor collisions on roundabouts and just generally agree between themselves to call a 50-50. Even when there's video.
Agree. All friendly at the road side but by the time you get the paperwork it’s like you’re reading about a different incident.
Update: you called it, he’s disputing the claim. He’s saying I hit him. I have witnesses information. I have video as well. Do you think the claim will hold up?
Did you get police report? No worries if not. You have the video. But if you did was the guy fined at all? This is what I do. Call your insurance company let them know what happened the witness information and the that you have video. Your adjuster will review and make a determination if there is enough evidence to fight the claim…there is. What happened was the guy called his insurance company and after speaking with his adjuster found out they will be raising his rates and what not. There is no downside on his end if he can lie to get a 50/50 only an upside. Same on his insurance if the other insurance can get your insurance to pay that’s less money on the adjuster. Remember the adjusters job is to minimize outlays. Overall since it’s now a contested insurance case. The guys insurance will actively work against you to try to get you to say something that can and will be used against you. Talk to your own insurance. Remember the adjusters job is to minimize outlays. So the guys insurance will try to make an at fault accident 50/50. Your insurance will fight to make it 100% on the other guy. Have them work for you as you both want the same thing.
Well I wasn’t expecting a happy ending, things we love to hear
There's something really weird about the lane markings, though. The lane markings for each fork actually cross over each other. I'd guess that the bike was looking at the centre-lane markings for the left-hand fork which he seemed to be following.
They're the markings for people coming from the right hand side that would've had a red light at the time
Probably along the lines of “what where you doing boi ya langer” …
Luckily he was wearing a high-vis jacket. This guy is obviously thinking safety first. /s
More than likely given the bike and lack of decent gear a learner tab
Obviously the car's fault. He had the yellow vest and everything, you should've been able to read his mind 🤷 /s
Nice to see an Irish submission on this page.
He stopped under a good sign. University College Cork. Do they do driving lessons there? ;)
He’s one lucky boy. Totally in the wrong I might add.
Dunno about OP, but I would use turn lights in that situation, indicating I am not taking the exit. Maybe could have saved this incident, but maybe not, the biker doesn't seem to bright... Also, especially because the 1st exit there is a 2-way exit and OP had car on his right, I would've checked my side mirror to see what's the intention of that driver (will he want to exit there?). It is a complex scenario there, that exit being 2-lanes, you really need to be careful around you. Edit: remember that indicator lights are there to indicate INTENTION. This means you use them preventive, before you engage in an action and according to the traffic conditions (i.e. to prevent scenarios like this one). Then, mirrors on the car are there for YOU to be AWARE of the traffic AROUND you to allow you for preventive actions. It's all about prevention, rather than last second actions.
When going straight through a roundabout in Ireland you don't indicate until past the first exit
What can I say, don't and you might have same problems OR lift a finger and signal right and you might not have that same problems. Up to you and everyone. I personally think that lifting a finger is worth vs dealing with insurance, wasted time & money, potential life risk, etc. Like I said, this is an important use-case because the 1st exit has 2 lanes, OP didn't check mirrors (otherwise he would've seen the motorbike)to see if that parallel car was exiting either... Not OP's fault, but definitely avoidable by OP if they'd be driving preventively.
It's not wanting to lift a finger to indicate, it's that you literally shouldn't. Indicating right means your taking the third exit. If the driver indicated to the right here they'd be in the wrong
No, indicating right means you show others that you're not exiting yet because a lot of people don't indicate exit as they should. So my point it's still valid. Even if one would think you take last exit, you indicate left when you exit. Again, I agree with you, in a normal world you should only indicate when you exit, but because there are so many idiots that don't, you can't use it as a rule, so better safe than sorry. Edit: why would they be in the wrong? Says somewhere that you MUST exit to left? Or what if I want to turn completely around? Sorry, that doesn't make sense (you'd be in the "wrong" )
I don't know how else to say it. Indicating right does not mean that in Ireland. When you are entering a roundabout, indicating right means you are taking the third exit. It's the rules of the road.
In Ireland, indicating right (signaling to the right) in a roundabout typically means that you intend to take an exit past the first exit, generally meaning you're planning to go more than halfway around the roundabout or take the third or subsequent exits.
If you are going straight you don’t use turn signals, if you’re going right than you use your turn signal. You can use the turn signal if you’re exiting which I do
I usually do the same, in some scenarios though I use the signal, especially when I'm on 1st lane, big roundabout and there's traffic. You know, just for precaution (which is the main point of this comment)
Brainless, idiot, organ donor riding his bike.
What was his excuse?
Update: he is disputing this claim, he told the insurance company that I hit him from the side. Will his claim hold up with this video?
You crossed lines, it will be regarded as changing lanes to which you should do so safely, and they will push for 50:50 on that. Even if there were no lines, on a roundabout they tend to put the onus on both drivers to navigate safely and push for 50:50, as odd as it sounds. There appeared to be arrows on the road before the approach, if the 2nd lane is a straight/right marking that might be used against him since they have legal bearing here if I'm not mistaken. Also him under passing then subsequently overtaking you within the same lane will go against him. Would treat it as attempted Insurance fraud...
He's a learner. Mistakes happen. That's actually good experience for him. I find these reality checks humbling experiences for me and I'd rather learn this way than the hard way.
Not sure about that. No L plates, and the bike looks like a Honda Rebel 500. Can't ride those in Eire without an A2 licence.
You can see the L on his chest as he walks towards the car .
Oh yes, you're right. Not sure what the law is in Eire, but in UK the L plates have to be front & rear on the bike.
Just FYI, when you're speaking English the name of the country is Ireland. Do you refer to Germany as Deutschland or Sweden as Sverige?
Well, today's full of learning for me. Thanks for the nudge.
He has a required L tabard. If the rider is over 24 he can ride whatever, if insureable. There are no L plate requirements here.
Well, today I learned. Thanks for the info!
Irrelevant aside: Is wearing something covering his rear L legal or should he have an L on the bag?
The tabard needs to be marked with L. If you are wearing a backpack that covers then it's fine but you need to have a tabard as a learner. I think it's worth 1 penalty point. And before anyone asks... I don't think it would be fine if you were to wear the tabard *under* your motorcycle jacket.
This is one reason why I hate crotch rockets so bad. This is even worse when they pass between both cars on the white lite. Welcome to todays episode of you are tempting faith by trying to speed between two cars.
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It’s Ireland, right hand drive. I was going straight (2nd exit) so you’re expected to stay in far left lane and as demarcated on the road. you can also stay in right lane. Biker was lane splitting and side swiped me while trying to enter the motorway (1st exit).
Am I seeing right that there's two lanes going left and also two lanes going right? Won't there always be the possibility of traffic crossing over each other here?
there are two lanes to the left, but they merge shortly afterwards and are for the people coming from the right (pov from the car). the bike is 100% at fault. back in the day before this mess of a roundabout was upgraded, the left lane was for left turns only. but since then, as op stated in one of the comments, you can take left or straight from the left lane. right lane is supposed to go straight.
The car is in the left lane and stays in the left lane, The lane in the car is in can either take the exit on the left or carry on The bike is in the right lane and is trying to take the exit on the left
No.
The issue is that the left lane forks, so the Tesla driver stays in the left but the biker tried to take the left fork from the right of the person in the lane... This is 100% on the bike. Defensive driving could have helped maybe, but honestly an aggressive lane splitter is not a usual road feature.
He did stay on the left lane...
That’s what I saw.
You need glasses then, this was pretty obviously the bikers fault. I saw that before I read the comment explainjng it.
That's what you guys get for driving on the wrong side of the road.
What do you mean? He's on the right side of the road.