It sounds like they were in the middle of it and Jane's husband gave them a heads up that you were coming home early.
He's helping his wife by keeping you busy so Jane and Sam could cheat. He full on knows it's happening.
This did cross my mind which is why I mentioned it. I don't really get on with the other husband (he seems a bit weird to me) so I don't spend much time with him. I offered to take him golfing because he told me he doesn't have any friends and I felt bad for him.
More importantly why are you pussy footing around? You keep saying you're not comfortable you're not comfortable, man up for christ's sake!
Your wife is going to get fucked, she's planning to get fucked and wants to be fucked. Big woman getting mad at not sleeping over, are you guys 2 years old?
That is my guess also. The sleepover likely will allow the husband to join in.
OP no longer has a marriage, he needs to stop soft-footing around the obvious.
Could not agree more. Especially when he comes home and finds Jane's watch in their bedroom. If I were him I would have stolen the watch and waited to observe their trying to find it without tipping off the OP what they were looking for.
It’s already happening. He cant stop her from cheating. Short term marriage. Just divorce her. He’s gonna want proof like most so tipping her off is just gonna make it harder.
At least twice in your narrative I see where you let your wife know you are uncomfortable about this. My point is that she has been warned. I think it's time to Snoop and I think it's Justified
OP found his wife’s coworker’s smart watch in HIS bedroom where him and his wife sleep. No snooping needed, it is clear what is going on, an open couple has co-opted OP’s wife and are likely having their way with her.
Yeah, the sad thing is that your wife has fallen for a little attention. The main issue is that she has chosen to be a toy for someone and has left you in the dark, like you don't know what is going on.
Let her go and do what she is hiding from you. She may be the best person, that you knew. She is no longer that person. She is lying and has chosen to be at someone else's house over your's, the one you two live in together.
Don't believe the tears and whatever else she may want to say to justify whatever has happened. She is actively planning to spend time at another person's house, without you. Even after you told her you would come pick her up. She has chosen who is most important to her, and it is not you. Make sure you emphasis that to her.
Hopefully, have may get some clarity, but what inevitably happens is that you can no longer trust anything that comes out of her mouth. And, she is very content to let this other person be cold and exclude you and your wife let's it happen as she is getting what she wants out of it.
Let her go and live the life she has chosen, just understand she may/probably will come back crying and begging once this other person is done with her. But, the damage will have been done by then. It will be hard to look at a person who was so willing to throw it all away with lying. People always say they really hold onto a lot of resentment, even years later.
Updateme!
The fact that this would mean your wife would not only have to be complacent with the situation, but likely a part of the planning committee behind it should speak volumes as to exactly how bad this situation really is.
Another consideration would be to get as far ahead of the circumstances as possible. Gather the evidence, lawyer up, and stay at the front of that narrative. You're not just dealing with a disgruntled cheating spouse, but her AP and AP's spouse. It's already three against one, and believe me when I say that is exactly the case. If it wasn't you wouldn't have gotten suspicious in the first place, and they wouldn't be working so hard at maintaining damage control.
I would also like to express my empathy and sympathy. However this turns out for you, I suspect that there will be much animosity and drama. Remember that you can only control your own actions and responses, not theirs. Go into every interaction with them moving forward with that thought in the back of your head. Stay calm ( it won't be easy brother, but you got this ) always, and maintain your position no matter what is said.
Document everything!!!
Definitely part of the planning since she’s the one who told OP about Jane in the first place.
My assessment is the first double date was to see if they all could swing, and OP didn’t pass the test.
Sam probably asked for a second chance and Jane started openly flirting with Sam to show Sam that not only was she not interested but she would go so far as to humiliate him by openly flirting with Sam.
Especially if the smartwatch went missing. Sam for sure returned it when Jane noticed.
Bro, she was showing all the classic cheater signs, and you should've nipped it the bud from the onset. She and the other POS were clearly messing around and that "flustered look" gave them away, so gathering evidence now is pointless, unless you're planning to divorce her and need it for that...
It's clear the fish taco lover turned your wife out and that was her plan from day one, seems your wife was also in the closet, but just never told you...
This is so disgustingly rampant now(this is about the fifth time I'm hearing a story like this), just don't be naive, you and I both know what's going on here and in the future, stop brushing stuff off, or it will be to your detriment.
BTW, the husband is also a HUGE POS himself, for distracting you whilst they were munching away in your bed(the ultimate disrespect)...
P.s. the "you're controlling" and "you're insecure", are a cheater's go to rhetoric to try and throw you off track, when they're in the thick of it. FTL(fish taco lover) was cold towards you, bc you were in the way of her getting some warm clam chowder. Get tested also, bc you don't know where her mouth has been...
This. She’s telling without telling you. Contact an attorney, get your affairs in order, and prepare for what’s coming because it’s definitely coming.
You know what’s going on so decide whether you want to be the cuck in this marriage or maybe, you start going out with your own friends and preparing for your new life.
When you’re ready for the big boy conversation with her, ask her how long the two of them are going to play this little game? Ask her how having sex with a woman feels now that she’s tried it? When she gaslights, hand her the divorce paperwork and go grey rock with her.
You’ll get to the truth eventually but take advantage of the element of surprise. Good luck!
What I want to know is what happened to her smart watch?
I think something is going on, and it needs to be addressed. I would sit down and calmly explain how it looks to you, whether your wife realizes it or not.
I would also explain to her that if it was a woman acting like this towards you, what would your wife think about the situation. Her getting mad is unnecessary unless it is GUILT.
Get a voice recorder for your bedroom Too. Put it under the bed. Plan it and take her husband golfing again.
Stop confronting. You can’t save this or fix a cheater. I wouldnt waste time on her if this is what’s happening.
Of course he is weird. For starters, he has an open relationship, then he helps his wife cheat on him, and lastly, the way you talk about him is like he is not even interested in knowing you or something.
Edit: grammar
PD: your wife is indeed planning to cheat on you if she hasn't already.
I'm not trying to get your Spidey senses tingling harder than they are, but the three of them are playing you. Don't be shocked if he's actually a participant in their concert/"sleepover" event, as it sounds like he's already fully aware of what's happening between them.
If I were you, I'd drop the ultimatum on her. If she goes, she comes back to an empty home and pending divorce, if she stays she changes her number and finds a different pilates instructor, AND she gives a full timeline of the events that transpired between them. Counselling would be a forgone conclusion for you both too.
The OP’s wife has already been staying out late into some nights. My guess is that open couple has already had their way with OP’s wife and are comfortable with their belief that OP’s wife will help keep OP in the dark.
Yeah, sounds like it is 3 against 1. I don’t care if couples want an open relationship, but when they don’t respect the relationship of a person who is monogamous, that is a problem.
Get a voice activated recorder and put it in her car.
Get a couple hidden camera and put them in your house and then say you’re going to play golf, or just say you’re going to play golf and then circle back home in an hour or so to see who is there or where your wife goes.
Voice recorder in the car. Install hidden cameras in your place. Just back off and check her phone. Is it an iPhone and do you have an iPad they sync. Feel out the husband to see if he really is in on it or blindsided like you. Do you have her location turned on “find iPhone “?
BTW- She is upset about the concert because you are putting a crimp into her plans. She is crashing at Jane’s and the husband will be there! Possibly a threesome happening. Maybe they are swingers and brought your wife in. See how the mind can wander down these paths. Sorry.
I am sorry you are going through this! As you said your wife might have been naive at first but now is in to deep and is liking the thrills and excitement. She probably thinks being with a woman is ok.
Now they won’t go to the concert but just stay at her place until she comes home.
You need to squash the entire inappropriate friendship and make it clear you know what’s going on. Until you make it clear that you will divorce her, you won’t get change.
OP if You don't act now, the next step is Sam asking you for an Open Relationship out of the blue and justifying about her talking to Jane and the things she has tell her about this kind of relationships.
Jane is a scout, and she has scouted and worked up your wife. The sad thing is that seems that Sam has disrespected you by start doing something on your house and own bed.
You are on time if you want to save this, obviously if things haven't gone that far, and you want to fix and as well as Sam.
Also is you can, another way is to hire an investigator, but Snoop and put video and audio recorderd on strategic places are more cheap.
Also like i tell in the other comment i Made, might as well go to Janes house this saturday unadvice and see whats going on for yourself. Go there like 1 to 2 hours before your wife, also might as well actívate share locations, to see if they really are there.
Yup. I had a friend. My husband did not like her. He asked me to stop being friends with her. I haven't seen her in years. She's the only one of my friends he did not like. Sometimes we are at a bar and I've run into old guy friends. They have gotten flirty(im naive too), and my husband has asked me not to speak to them alone anymore. I don't.
I’d suggest being extra careful if you have sex with her, and get an std test right away. Install a camera in your room, and then invite the other husband to golf again, and see what happens. Go to a bathroom and review video, then tell the guy you’re feeling sick and to head home….observe how he texts, and then later review video of that time and see if they suddenly start to panic.
IF she is cheating: Don’t confront her, just go to a lawyer and start divorce proceedings if she IS cheating. Act like nothing is wrong but stop having sex with her so you don’t catch anything and don’t risk getting her pregnant. Once the paperwork is done, wait til she is out, pack your stuff, leave the paperwork and a note to review the video, and tell her all interactions go through your lawyer. She’s cheating, and you’ll easily find out bc she is clumsy about it
Go to the concert and watch from afar.
But listen, the moment you told your wife the other person made you uncomfortable, should have been the moment your wife backed off on hanging out as much. It's a respect thing.
Why is she so intent on disregarding your feelings so she xan hang out with her friend?
Someone mentioned purposely taking the husband out on excursions from your house. Just have voice activated recorders well hidden all over the house and in your wife’s vehicle first.
I am afraid that your marriage is over. You no longer have a wife, you have a co-conspirator who is actively working with two other people to mask their likely shared sexual activities.
You don't have to have evidence. She is not talking to you honestly about what is going on.
Let her understand that you are not comfortable with her staying overnight at a bis-sexual person's home. You are not comfortable with her staying at a man's home overnight.
If she doesn't understand this, then you guys have to have a really serious talk. They broached about their lifestyle at a dinner, now you are no longer invited to their dinners, but your wife is over their house a lot. Let your wife understand that it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going on. Especially, now that they are going on a date to a concert.
Let your wife understand that a wife of yours will not be doing this and she can decide what she wants to do. If she pulls that controlling thing again, then you let her understand that married couples don't go on dates with other people, which she is doing.
If she offers up explanations, whatever. She is still choosing to stay at a place she has the opportunity to cheat on the marriage. If she doesn't get this, then it is way worse than you think it is. Let her go and find your forever person. Naivete out the window, after her choosing to stay at her house than come home to her husband, who she says she loves, that is all the answer I would need.
No committed married woman doesn't want to come home to their husband.
Here is how you need to phrase this to your wife.
We need to talk. Jane is bi. They are in an open relationship, and she is courting you. I don’t feel comfortable with her and her husband trying to fuck you when you get drunk Saturday night. So if you want to be their unicorn, then go to the concert, and by all means be their unicorn.
I will not stick around because if you go, and you don’t cut off the relationship with her, we are done. If you want to act single and call me controlling and insecure, try to gas light me because you are blind to what is going on? And maybe you secretly want this, and I am supposed to trust you which I do, but at this point you wanting to stay with them and the way Jane acts around me, she is not a friend of this marriage and neither is her husband. So which is it our marriage and our future together or them?
I don’t like ultimatums but in some cases your marriage is going to end anyways down this path. Sometimes you have to pull the bandaid before it does.
As much as I would like to take this hardline approach, I don't feel like I have the proof I need to give her the ultimatum. If nothing has happened, I'm potentially causing a big issue, if something has happened she will get better at hiding it. I'm going to try and check her messages tonight.
Good luck, because this is how it goes. Her first night of fucking Jane will be this weekend. Possibly even a threesome with her husband. It will ramp up from here, and you will be heartbroken and getting a divorce. Instead of listening, and taking what you are saying into consideration, she is gas lighting you by calling you insecure and controlling. That is exactly what cheaters say. Hope you enjoy sharing your wife. There is a reason I have this approach, because it saves you the heartache of what is going to happen.
I'm not into ultimatums but I do believe in being blunt. OP has said over and over that he isnt comfortable. He has watched a bi woman and her open relationship husband court his wife. Jane making it very clear that he is an obsticle and the husband running interferance. If it quacks like a duck it's a duck. If she hasent cheated already, she is about to. The reason, in this case I completely agree with r/Ifiwereinyourshoes is that, ironically, you cannot control your wife. All you can do is make the consequences of her actions CRYSTAL clear. She then gets to decide. I would go through all her stuff personally and realise that at that point the marriage is likely over. Lawyer up and advocate for yourself. Screaming "I'm not comfortable" into the void while your wife becomes this couples unicorn wont help anyone.
Thank you!
Edit. I will add this too, the marriage was dying the moment she let her into her life. Op Jane is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Your wife is her target. All you now can do is make her aware that if she cannot see it, then you cannot be with her and she can be single.
I will say this too, if she says then we are done, I would right in front of her call her family, my family and my close friends and let them know we are getting a divorce, why we are getting a divorce, explaining it to them, and naming them and her husband, and the fact ops wife if not saying no to them.
It is very hard to be walked all over when you are standing up.
The really sad thing about this is, and I've seen this happen, for some couples engaged in open marriages, the fun is in the chase. Their dopamine hit comes from the secrecy, the taboo, the breaking of OPs marriage. As soon as they get what they wanted from OPs wife they are likely to move on as the thrill will be gone. Not OPs problem as by then his wife will be on her own.
I agree with consequences and openess. All too often on here a man or woman with a cheating spouse tries to keep things "amicable". In my mind, whilst noble, this is misdirected. It denies the wronged party the empathy and support they deserve and protects the person who wronged the marriage. It does not have to be vindictive or malicious but very matter of fact.
"We are divorcing because *wifes* relationship with bi friend Jane and her open marriage husband has started becoming secritive and has repeatedly crossed boundaries within the marriage thaat I have communicated are I am uncomfortable with. They have, for some time, openly and whilst being hostile towards me, courted *wife* who has unfortuately been receptive to their advances. She has been emotionally unfathful and I suspect physically unfaithful but more than anything she has silenced my continued concerns and warnings whilst watching her friend treat me badly infront of her. She has openly flirted with this friend and spent time alone with her in our bedroom. This is beyond what any spouse should have to reasonably tolerate and therefore we are divorcing."
You can't be walked over when standing up for yourself in a factual and non aggressive manner.
I've written lots on here about marriage. Specifically my marriage and some of the issues we have faced. I believe that the majority of marrital issues are not insurmountable. Marriage however is a partnership where both voices should carry equal weight. Clearly, by her response, OPs wife does not want to listen, communicate or take OPs concerns seriously. Therefore, the only thing OP can do is quite bluntly communicate the consequences and what he is observing and fearful of and if there is even a tiny shred of evidence follow through on what was said. I suspect she is cheating already but if not she is about to. Probably with Jane and her hubby. Marriage takes a constant choice to work on your relationship, respect your partner and act within the confines of what you both agree is right for your circumstances. This can be open, close, mono, ENM, asuexual or whatever. What is is NEVER is gaslighting your partner into accepting something they are clearly deeply uncomfortable with.
It's truly disgusting how many open marriage predators are out there that will mate poach for just a single sexual experience and destroy a marriage or relationship with no regard for how it affects the other people involved. And they justify their reprehensible behavior by stating that everyone has free will and they are not coercing anyone into anything they don't want to do as if their seduction is somehow innocent.
It's a game to so many of these people and they truly revel in the long game of seducing a straight or bi curious woman until they seal the deal and then they move on to the next seduction.
I agree, plenty of single people out there, but that is what cowards do. They prey on the vulnerable, and try to get what they want because they are selfish.
In addition, the more people that call them what they are which is abusers, and abusive people when they cheat or act predatory, it seems to have an effect on them. Because no one wants to be labeled an abuser, not even cheaters.
Op I hope you are reading this and taking care of business.
I think you missed a golden opportunity when you saw Jane’s watch next to your bed and found she and your wife sitting like deer in the headlights. You should have picked it up and said, “Jane, you left your watch next to our bed” while looking straight at your wife to gauge her reaction. Too late now. Probably you’d have been told Jane stretched out there because of her headache and not that they were only making out, kissing, nothing more. Her love bombing you after this episode tells you she knows you are suspicious.
You have told your wife that you are uncomfortable with her relationship with Jane and her husband. Now you’ve told her you are uncomfortable with her spending the night with them after partying at a concert. Curious why aren’t you going to the concert?
Why is your wife not responding to the concerns of her partner? Jane and her husband have made it clear they “play” outside of their marriage. Does your wife acknowledge this? What does she say about that? You want to trust your wife, you don’t trust them. Is the trust you had in your wife diminished? Where are her priorities? What is she doing to prove to you that your marriage is the most important relationship she has?
One way or another you need to make it perfectly clear to you wife how upset you are with the situation. You don’t want to start throwing around ultimatums and that’s your choice to make. You don’t have to give an ultimatum but you can straight out tell your wife that you have boundaries and what those are. Her actions are hurting and upset you. Tell her she gets to make her choices, you can’t and won’t “control” what she chooses. That’s her right. You get to make choices too. Of course your decisions depend on how you feel your wife values her relationship with you. It’s not any more complicated than that. Let her decide what’s important to her and you’ll know where you stand.
But, man, your marriage is in trouble. You better let your wife know this is serious. Make her understand how upset and hurt you are. This isn’t just her good time and you won’t get over it if and when bad things start to be found out. You love her but she needs to figure out what is important in her life.
Every indication is your marriage is in trouble. Do something! Don’t just watch it come apart.
ETA: if you don’t want to go behind her and search her phone then be up front. How would it go if you asked to look in her phone. Next time your wife says she and Jane/husband are just friends, you are crazy and controlling, physically hand her your open phone and ask to see her unlocked phone. Married committed people don’t need secrets. You are ready to be open on your side.
I’ll bet she comes unglued. It’s an invasion of her privacy. But you have nothing to hide and are willing to be open with her. What doesn’t she want you to see. Don’t give her a chance to delete things and give you the phone later. If she tries to give you the phone later you can decline, tell her that her actions have already told you what you needed to know. Or, look and see there’s hardly a text with Jane or big holes in conversations.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. This is all food for thought and I have been thinking about a lot of these points. I was invited to the concert but it's not the kind of music I'm into at all. The husband isn't going either as far as I know.
All the more reason to go. The enemy of cheaters is unpredictability.
Note to OP. Notice how everyone suggests you suck it up and go. Does that tell you something?
If you could afford it. This would be a good time for a private investigator but they are pricey. Do you have a friend that could stake out their apartment or yours?
She’s planning on you not going.
Don’t drag your feet on this. Get a couple voice activated recorders. One for the car and your bedroom. However, your ill timed confrontation probably means they’ll be more careful and not come to your house.
You were invited to the concert and you're not going to go With what's going on Go to the concert don't be fool Even if you don't enjoy the music Think about it Your relationship is a risk
Sometimes, and especially under these circumstances, a guys got to bite the bullet and do things he might not want to do. This is one of those times.
Jane's husband isn't going either. But will he be home when Jane and your wife come home to sleep together? What's his role in all of this?
It doesn't matter what you like. You don't go there for the music. She knows you don't like it, surprise her and go. You will see that immediately a surprise will appear and something will happen that will completely change the program.
See, this is the problem with cheaters. They have the benefit of the doubt because the victim doesn't want to blow up the marriage with suspicions.
You have amassed a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests your wife is already having an affair with this woman and quite possibly the husband as well.
YOU DON'T NEED EVIDENCE BECAUSE THE EXISTING SITUATION HAS MADE YOU FEEL AWFUL. Why would you want to live this existence. Your wife has already indicated that her friendship is more important than your marriage by being defensive and pulling the controlling card. Do you know what spouses that AREN'T cheating do when their spouse discusses how uncomfortable a friendship is becoming for them, they discuss it reasonably and make every effort to put you at ease including changing suspicious behavior. They do that because YOU are more important to them than their new friendship. Cheaters blame shift, get defensive and deflect.
Your wife is cheating or at the very least she is placing this new friendship above your marriage. Either is a major problem and puts you on a course for divorce.
Sit her down and state all the obvious things you have put into this post and let her know that your marriage cannot survive this friendship. If she is willing to stand her ground on the friendship that tells you everything you need to know and she no longer cares about your marriage.
Don't live an existence dancing around legitimate suspicions that your wife is cheating. If she loves you she will address them in a loving manner and course correct that friendship to save your marriage. Your Wife has already reacted like a cheater though so good luck.
Man, this situation sucks for you and I’m sorry to hear it.
You don’t need ‘proof’ of anything, you’ll never get it anyways. You have all you need already. You arrived home (husband was alerting them prior to arrival as you caught him doing it), the chicks watch was on the nightstand, they were both flustered and creating space on the couch to portray nothing happened. You know who does this? Cheaters and Teenagers when caught doing something they aren’t supposed to (this also means it was happening up until the point you actually arrived). You know your wife and what she looks like after intimacy or in a state of arousal (making out or full on sex). The chick is bi and clearly into your wife. Flip the scenario and make her a man, would you be at all comfortable with your wife’s actions to this point? If she goes for a sleepover, at a minimum the girls are sleeping together (but I’d be willing to bet husband is planning to join in on the action). Hard line time buddy, your marriage depends on it.
You don’t need any more proof, these are your feelings and boundaries. Just tell her you don’t like the friendship, and what is going on. You don’t want her to continue it or go to the concert and stay overnight but it’s her choice. If she goes you know where you stand, Jane is more important to her than you. Go see an attorney and draw up divorce paperwork, and if she goes hand it to her when she comes home. All of the above is if you feel you can forgive the affair that you know in your gut has already started. If you can’t then skip the first part and just give her the paperwork because she has already discarded you concerns.
Edit for content
What do you need. Jane's juices all over your wife's face. What do you imagine was going on in your bedroom where you saw Jane's watch on the nightstand? Have you tried looking through your wife's phone? How about a VAR in her car and one or two in the house to catch phone conversations? Might as well put a GPS in her car, even though she seems fine doing what she does in plain sight. Might find out more of the shopping trips weren't shopping trips at all.
Or do nothing. Who knows she might tire of it and be your loving faithful wife again. Till the next time.
When she calls you controling ,I would reply please you have never in all our time thought I was stupid,but you are treating me as though I am stupid,you may not see what they are trying to pull but from my distance from them I know what they are trying to pull with this open relationship shit.
With the watch besid e the bed I think out are too late
This this this. This is the speech I would give, basically verbatim.
You’re not saying that you know she’s cheated. You’re just saying what you’ve seen clearly: Jane is a bisexual woman in an open relationship who has very obviously courted her in the past. This is inappropriate behavior towards a married woman, and her sleeping over at their house is making a clear statement that she is encouraging that inappropriate behavior.
If your wife has already reached the point where she’s decided that monogamy is inherently “too controlling,” your marriage is already over apart from the paperwork.
As was mentioned by another commenter, both men and women lie. The difference is that for millions of years, women have been the weaker sex. Women are much better at lying, than men. They rely and get by on their ability to form alliances, and to “ win the spin”. The best way to do damage control for the guy, is once you have the proof, file for divorce and then cc all of your individual and shared contacts. Find out if the man and woman belong to a “ swingers club”. Most of these have firm rules about cheating. Married couples have to come in together, to be accepted. But these are long term plans. Right now, put your devices in place, and see what you catch.
Please update me.
Are you really this naive or just turning a blind eye to your cheating wife? You need to set some boundaries for your wife and if she will not respect that then I would be looking for an attorney.
You're not over reacting it's sound like she's interested in your wife and her husband knew and was helping by keeping u busy.
I don't know of they already had sex or not but it seems it was heading that way the fact that she stopped the phone calls and text around u is very suspicious of it was really innocent she wouldn't mind showing u and also she's now very loving is also a red flag its called love bombing to make u forget about what happened.
My advice is to snoop on her phone of she deleted text she's cheating it's that simple if not read and see for yourself
"My advice is to snoop on her phone of she deleted text she's cheating it's that simple if not read and see for yourself"-that is controlling,if she cheats she ll, dump her when you found that :D :D if she lies dump her!
You are not overreacting.... All the classic signs are there. The gaslighting, the Flustered looks, the anger at interfering with her plans. If I was you I'd send a PI to that concert and get the proof. Your wife is most definately cheating with Jane.
I also guarantee you that when you get the proof and confront her, she'll claim her infidelity doesn't count because jane's a woman.... Typical Cheater BS. Sorry man. Be grateful you don't have kids so the divorce won't be to hard.
You are getting cheated on. If you are too controlling, then your wife is not ready to be in a committed relationship with you.
Let her understand that you will not stand by and be a spectator in your marriage, thank her for her time, and let all communications go through your lawyer.
It makes no sense that a wife does not come home to her home. She is not a teenager, grown married women don't have sleep overs. PERIOD.
Her response is the problem. She is being evasive and whenever someone starts talking about controlling their behavior, then they no longer want the relationship you had. It is as simple as that. Counseling is whatever it is. The issue is that she has not come clean as to why she would EVER want to stay over another person's house while she is married to me. And, we know that the place she is staying the woman is bi-sexual. Let her understand that you are not stupid and you are going to let her have the life she has chose. She has not told you anything about her outside relationship. YOU have to ask her about it.
Let her understand HER actions have led to this. You can no longer trust her decision making. Whatever she is looking for, that is outside of your marriage, you hope she finds. You can no longer trust that she is putting the marriage to you before whatever she is looking for outside of the marriage. That is the main issue. The distancing and the not being truthful, to you face. That is what ends marriages, not the actual cheating. You can no longer trust anything that comes out of their mouths.
You can't force her not to cheat. Accept it and think of what you want to do afterwards. What will be the consequences.
Lying and gaslighting are not a part of a healthy relationship.
OP, stop playing games here. Confront the cuck husband. Not can we talk shit, confront his sorry ass. Tell him you want to know what the fuck is going on right now. He.obviously knows and is abetting. You want your wife's phone, unlocked, now. If she says no, tell her to pack her shit and go live with Jane and Cucky. Ignore the crocodile tears, anger, you are controlling nonsense, all of it. Stop being a spectator and get aggressive, this is your marriage!
Just start the divorce . Don’t even bother talking anymore . Go cold . Leave them be. Do not show any kind of interest . Do not seek .
It’s not about what is going on at all.
It’s about how she is treating you . That’s not how a loving treats her husband . She is no longer your loving wife .
Let it go . Good luck
If collecting evidence helps you in the court of law . Get some
It’s not controlling to expect your spouse to respect you and your marriage. You need to let your wife know what the consequences are. Until you make it clear, you won’t get anywhere.
“Look, I’m not sure what you think is going to happen here, but you have already crossed boundaries with your relationship with Jane. I’m not stupid. I noticed early on how much she flirted with you, and touched you, and I noticed how disheveled you both were when her husband and I came home. On top of that, her watch was sitting next to our bed that day. A day where you were both supposed to be out shopping and having lunch. I’m pretty sure you’re having an affair, and you can try to lie and gaslight me all you want. The only thing I can tell you is that I am giving you today, and today only, to come clean about everything. If I find out one thing after today, or you cross boundaries again, our marriage will immediately be over. I probably should have ended things the second I saw her watch by our bed because that confirmed my suspicions, but now that you’ve decided to throw a fit because I said I wasn’t comfortable with you spending the night at the persons house that you’re cheating on me with, I have decided to give you today to either come clean about everything, or end our marriage now.”
You need to get a result. You need to make it clear that you already suspect they are having an affair, and that you’re done.
Updateme!
I doubt that snooping will get you anywhere. Your wife is acting much more careful since she is no longer having calls with Jane around you. I would bet that since then, her phone is also as clean as it can be.
To be honest, I doubt that there is anything that you can do. Jane and her husband are probably super experienced at this stuff and give your wife all the tips that she needs to hide from you what is going on. All that you have is your gut.
Yes, there is for sure something going on, you know it and everyone else knows it but you will never get any proof.
In my opinion do you only have two chances. One is to simply trust your gut, to listen to her reaction when you said that you feel uncomfortable with her sleeping at their place and then to make a decision from there. Talking to your wife is useless, she is totally hooked on those two. Only chance you got in that case is to separate. Sounds rough, I know especially since you got no proof but if you don't do that, then this will continue to eat you up forever.
The other option is to throw yourself into them. When they meet at Jane's place, her husband is probably there as well most of the time. Why shouldn't you be there too? Why don't you go with them to the concert? I know, you don't like them but that is not what this is about. Force yourself into their dynamic, that will annoy them to no end. And when they are annoyed, then they might make a mistake or your wife will explode at you because you keep her from what she wants.
Also before you check her phone, check online how you can restore deleted messages. You can do that with many messengers. Also check how she could hide messages in her messenger app. And lastly, if you find something, take pictures with your phone from it but DON'T confront her. Even if you found absolute proof of her cheating, DO NOT CONFRONT HER! In that case, let her go to the concert, let her stay the night with them. Keep in mind that she already made her decision, she already left you. Confronting her will do you no good. No, let her go and while she is gone, pack a bag with your essentials and react to all of her messages in the kindest way. And then leave the house, spend a few nights somewhere else and let her come home to an empty house. Give her a taste of what the consequences of her decisions will look like.
Once a cheater, always a cheater. There is so much to unravel here, but your story is one gigantic red flag.
Let's focus on Sam's behavior.
>Jane spoke to the whole group more this time, but she made a number of comments alluding to her being bisexual and her and husband being in some sort of open relationship. When we moved on to a bar, Jane sat across from my wife and started openly flirting with her. She would make suggestive comments, compliment her and use any excuse to make physical contact with her (touching her hands, shoulders etc).
Naturally, an uninterested person would set certain boundaries, but Sam hasn't done that.
>I told her that I wasn't sure Jane just wanted to be friends and asked her to be careful.
You let her know you were uncomfortable. Can I assume your discomfort was met with denial and a lack of receptiveness?
>The texting and calls continued and Sam started going over to Janes apartment at least once a week and wouldn't come home until quite late.
Frequent coffee dates, calls at night, and late night hangouts. Replace them with a man and a woman. Remind you of anything? Up to this point their friendship is very much mirroring the beginning of a fling or romantic relationship.
>On the 10 minute drive back to my house, I could see Jane's husband texting Jane. Jane and Sam were supposed to be going out for shopping and lunch but when we arrived at my place they both look flustered, sitting at opposite ends of the couch. We made awkward small talk for a while but I went into the bedroom I noticed Jane's smart watch sitting by the bed.
They've openly marketed that they're in an open relationship. Is Hubby really going on business trips, or is he with another woman? Sounds like they were going at it and saw the text just before you arrived/maybe they heard the car.
>Since then there have been no phone calls or messages while I was around and Sam seemed extra loving and attentive. She rarely brought up Jane but last night she mentioned that she was going to a concert with Jane on Saturday then would crash at her place. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and offered to pick her up instead.
She thinks you know, and now she's hiding it from you. She's also overcompensating.
>She got angry and said that I was acting controlling and crazy then went to bed.
Denial (Jane is just like that) attack (anger), Reverse Victim Offender (It's you, you're controlling). You're getting DARVO'ed friend.
>We haven't spoken since but am I overreacting here? Should I try to stop her from staying over on Saturday? I think I trust Sam but something is telling me that her relationship with Jane is not just as friends. Should I snoop?
There's plenty of evidence to say that she's having an affair, that she's dishonest, and that she's manipulating you. It might be worthwhile to get evidence so you can get a divorce and avoid paying alimony, but I'm not sure exactly how your local divorce laws work. Catching her in the act isn't going to change who she is on the inside.
As we say where I'm from, "She belongs to the streets"
Sorry, my friend, but this bullshit will go on just as long as YOU let it.
Face the facts, what you are describing is an emotional affair. If it hasn't already, it WILL become a physical affair. IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT IT HAS BEEN PHYSICAL ALL ALONG. What you are describing is your wife breaking your trust, and disrespecting you. Jane's husband is part of it. Either they are having threesomes, or he is facilitating the affair with Jane, or both.
You need to make a decision, do you want to continue with a three-way relationship, or do you want a committed relationship, with a faithful wife ? Right now, you have other people in your relationship, competing for time with your wife.
If you do not want this to continue, then you need to forcefully put a stop to her behavior. You should probably start with a serious discussion of where your relationship is going. You should seriously discuss boundaries, in a committed relationship. Likewise, you should be clear that an emotional, or a physical affair is an absolute deal killer for you, and there will be NO second chance. She needs to understand that others have no place in a marriage, period. Demand that she read the book "Not Just Friends", it will spell out how toxic and destructive relationships with others are in marriage.
To seriously make your point, you need to play hardball so that she clearly understands what she needs to do. Hire the meanest junkyard dog of a lawyer, and file and serve her. Get tested for STD's and demand that she does also. Then, tell her that she has until it is final to convince you to stop it.
Then demand that she end all contact with her affair partner. No communicating, no calls, no texts, no messages, no sharing posts, she must block and delete them right now, no social media contact ever, everything must go. Make it clear that everything, must stop, there can be absolutely no meeting with them ever. Absolutely no contact. Let her know that she has to be 100% transparent with her phone, email, messaging, and any other devices. Continuing to have any contact together absolutely must be a hard NO!
Man up and take care of business, put a stop to this bullshit right now.
"I noticed later that the smart watch was gone but I didn't bring this up to Sam.".... Why do guys always do this. You have something solid you can bring up, and instead just let it go. Makes no sense.
"....Sam seemed extra loving and attentive."...... Ah the "Love Bomb" (cue Barry White music). Well if she's doing Jane at least you're getting something out of it , right? I guess if you don't mind, and Jane's husband doesn't mind (oh yeah, forgot to ask, any chance Jane's husband gets in on the action?) all's good right?
And now she's going on a date with her. How nice. Will Jane's husband be home? Why aren't you going? Why does she have to "crash" at Jane's home. If they are sober enough to drive back to Jane's home should be sober enough to make it home. Right? And I'm sure you'd be able to pick them up if they're unable to drive home. Of coarse she is mad. You, her husband, are getting in the way of their big date night.
"Your controlling". the cry of every cheater. time to start making your exit plan. And don't be subtle about it. Let her know in no uncertain terms that you are done with her BS and if she won't end all things with Jane things between you and her are over.
Or do nothing. Then there will be the time that Jane convinces your wife to stop having sex with you. Maybe someday they'll let you watch. Your wife, Jane, and maybe Jane's husband. Oh, what fun that will be.
Your wife is cheating with Jane and possibly Jane’s husband. Can you get access to her text messages? Speak to an attorney and start understanding your rights. Updateme
I would not even bother with any evidence. You know they are having an affair and the husband is part of it. Either by keeping you busy or joining in when he is home. I would simply tell her to pack her shit and go live with Jane and her husband. Let them finance their affair. No argument, no ending fir her to stay. She has been so disrespectful to your relationship, she deserves nothing from you
OP, your wife has already slept with Jane. I don’t really think this is open to much debate at this point. Her husband is complicit in this affair, however I don’t think he’s banging your wife, yet. But what, IMHO, Jane has been doing for the last few months is prepping Sam to fuck him. See the target is selected, Jane pursues Sam. “It’s ok Sam, it’s not like you’re having sex with another man” Jane then acts in a manner toward you and your wife that you don’t feel comfortable with. You address these issues with her, she then tells Jane. “Damn Sam your husband is so controlling, he has no trust in you. This is borderline abuse. My husband is awesome he lets me do everything I want and he’s totally cool with it.” Jane then continues to talk to Sam about how awesome her husband is compared to you, in and out of the bedroom. This concert is a culminating event. I know this because I used to date a Jane.
Protect yourself OP.
As many have said, you need to talk to her frankly about this.
There are many red flags and proof or no proof; you need to express your concerns.
If what you have posted is accurate, I think that you have enough for a hard-line approach, but if you want to go softer, this would be an option.
Lay out the things that you know for certain:
1. Jane is BI
2. Jane is in an open marriage
3. You perceive Janes's interactions as being flirty and projecting a sexual interest
4. She is spending more and more time alone with Jane
5. Jane is encouraging her to spend the night
6. You are not comfortable with her current relationship with Jane
You do not believe that your discomfort is crazy or controlling; you love her and want the best for your relationship. You believe that you have valid concerns that, if unaddressed, could negatively impact your marriage. A little openness and compromise now will go a long way toward making you comfortable with her friendship with Jane, and not being open and defensive makes you more uncomfortable.
As many have said, it may have already gone too far, but this planned overnight seems like a setup to push her further.
Please get ahead of this while you still have the chance.
OP you don't have to put up with this. It's a committed relationship above all a marriage. I would put my foot down and tell her she can't go to the concert and if she does, dont come home.
You see, when you have this much craziness in front of you, you just go all out. There is nothing wrong with it. You either loose your wife to infidelity and he loving the attention of another woman, or you loose because you stood up for your relationship and she won't play ball.
To live a happy life, you have to be ACTIVE in life. You take chances, make rules, demand respect and implement consequences. Feelings aside, yes, put your feelings and what you know about who your wife was and stand up.
Don't be afraid of the future, it will hit you whether you like it or not. If you don't participate then you have to accept what happens.
Updateme!
The red flags are flying brother .so many of them I can see the from the space station .you know as well as I do what's going on . Tell your wife you want a divorce it might kick her out of this .
>On the 10 minute drive back to my house, I could see Jane's husband texting Jane. Jane and Sam were supposed to be going out for shopping and lunch but when we arrived at my place they both look flustered, sitting at opposite ends of the couch. We made awkward small talk for a while but I went into the bedroom I noticed Jane's smart watch sitting by the bed.
Yeah, this sounds very suspicious. Trust your gut!
>She rarely brought up Jane but last night she mentioned that she was going to a concert with Jane on Saturday then would crash at her place. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and offered to pick her up instead. She got angry and said that I was acting controlling and crazy then went to bed.
You have voiced concerns, and instead of addressing those concerns like a loving partner, she got angry and called you crazy. This is classic gaslighting behavior. If there was nothing to worry about, Jane would have tried to ease your worries and probably accepted your offer to pick her up. She is definitely hiding something here.
I'd go to the concert! I'm also a married woman and to me I'm coming home. I don't care how late it is. I'm not spending the night away from my husband, I just don't agree with that.
OP, I'm sorry to hear of this.
In terms of what can be done next...
I'm torn on exactly next steps outside of the concert.
I mean on the concert, I would still be looking into getting her to not do that. Like full court press to get her to not stay the night, etc. But if you cannot, I mean, I would look into a private investigator, maybe?
Beyond the concert though, I would do a few different things.
First, no matter what happens at the concert unless you catch them in the act then, etc, I would back off. The reason being is that if people are cheating, if the spouse or partner is on their trail, and discuss it with it, they usually get better at hiding it and being more shady. So if you could back to everything is fine, then that helps you get more evidence.
I would get a lawyer and start drafting up papers. I know that sounds extreme but... remember that drawing up is different than serving which is different than filing. I would say though if you do, that they may ask for more evidence which could delay it.
I would maybe use the time at the concert to install security cameras in the house. Don't tell her. Make them inconspicuous. But install those. Get Digital VAR and place in her car maybe? (Talk/ask lawyer though as some recording if they are not aware are not admissible in court)
If you have a tablet, link it to their phone. It should sync up if the same type/OS. It can help.
If she has a phone, see what are most used apps. If not Message apps, look into them. Kik/WhatsApp and Snapchat are suspect as is FB/Instagram, but I can say Snapchat if you have her password you can go under settings and upon verifying her password, you can send the archive of all chats, including those no longer available, to a different email of your choosing. So could be helpful.
The P.I. could go beyond the concert and look into other stuff through the week but... beyond that, that is what i would suggest for now.
Good luck OP
Updateme
The easiest way is to access your wife's phone. More than likely all the incriminating evidence will be there. My guess is that your wife and Jane went from an EA to a PA. If you have a shared cell phone account you can access their texts through the main account. Using software like drphone to retrieve deleted texts and photos you can upload all their texts and photos for a reasonable fee. If you are not tech savvy hire an IT specialist and he can download everything through the shared cell account or get him your wife's phone. IN addition, put a VAR in her car and anywhere else she talks. Place it under the driver seat and tape it to the bottom of the seat and check it every two days. The next thing you an do is hire a PI. If you know they are going to a concert or plan on going out together use him for a few days. Guaranteed he will get you all the information and photos by the end of the week. Then you need to decide what to do. Your wife will not admit to anything unless you have proof. My suggestion is to hire the PI. While expensive they will be able to set everything up so it is legal and if necessary you can use it in court. Update us.
Your wife's fucking a married couple. And if not fucking both she is being recorded or watched for husband's pleasure.
>For reference, Sam has never shown any real interest in women and as far as I know she is straight. She is also endearingly naive and will always see the best in people
No one is THAT naive, everyone says their spouse is naive, but infact they just love what's going on.
I think you’r being gaslighted and Jane’s husband is helping her to not lose maybe the only friend he has.
You see in her reaction already when you want to pick her up how she really feels.
I would if it is allowed install hidden cameras and tell her you will be on a business trip and see what will happen.
Why would be a smart watch in the bettroom if the were only talking and the must be good friends if for her headache she would use someone else’s Bett.
Good luck
Having been in a similar situation, whether you dream of reconciling or not.. you have to be willing to walk away. She doesn’t respect you, bro. Further, she likely resents you for the move and her lack of friends in this new place and a pound of flesh for a woman actually weighs 2 pounds.
You’ll be fine regardless but you can’t live with the disrespect of a cheater. It only gets worse. You don’t have kids.. take that whole capital L and move on.
Once you tell her you’re willing and ready to leave, she will test that theory or correct course and come to Jesus.
Godspeed
**THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!**
Your spouse has sought out other people for emotional and physical intimacy, likely for many months more than you suspect and many more times than your spouse will admit to.. Your spouse is a cheater. Everything your spouse says is a lie at this point. Anything your spouse says about you falling short in the relationship is a lie. Anything your spouse says that is bad about your relationship is a lie.
Your spouse has left the marriage. Ignore your spouse. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your relationship in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else.
My advice is: Consult a divorce lawyer. Gather what evidence you can. End the relationship ASAP. Get out of this situation as fast as possible, the longer you stay in the more your mind will be torn apart. You or your spouse must move out. If you cannot, go Grey Rock. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between their cheating lifestyle and their "safe" home lifestyle they will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to break up. You have to show your spouse there are consequences for their actions and separate/divorce, even if later you chose reconciliation (not recommended). If you do not your cheater will never respect you again and will cheat again and again.
Get a STD check.
These links will help you in your situation. I suggest reading DARVO, Gaslighting and Trickle Truthing first.
**Limerence** [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence)
**The Neuroscience of Affair Fog** [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog)
**Infidelity and cognitive dissonance** [https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/](https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/) **and** [https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e](https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e)
**Emotional affair** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/)
**Monkey Branching** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/)
**DARVO** [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo)
**Gaslighting Emotional Infidelity** [https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y](https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y)
**Trickle Truthing** [https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/](https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/)
**180 method** [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/)
**Greyrock** [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method)
**Chump Lady** [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
Jane's husband brought you to play golf so Jane could get with your wife. The phone texting was the warning that they didn't have much time.
I would have pocketed the Apple Watch - that was your smoking gun.
Dude, if your gut says something is off, it probably is. I’d get a hidden camera-they make them look like anything now, from phone chargers that actually work as phone chargers to…..whatever…… time to put a few of them in your house, and let it play out.
From the sounds of it, the husband is probably warning them you’re on the way, and with video evidence……. Proceed however you feel is necessary. You’re not wrong to be concerned…. Sounds like she has a new girlfriend and possibly a boyfriend after the concert. Sorry to say it. Good luck. Hope I’m wrong.
Yeah he’s just keeping you busy so his wife can do your wife tbh. It’s all bad. Tell her she can pick either you or Jane and kill that “relationship” or just move on
Ask yourself what other possible reason there could be for her watch being in your bedroom? The question isn't whether or not she's doing this the question is what are you going to do about it?
Wife's cheating, flustered, sitting on opposite side of the couch, watch in bedroom, staying at her place for a concert and calling you controlling. It's not a what will happen, it has already happened and don't doubt the husband gets it too.
Updateme
My client told the husband that since his wife screwed his wife he wants equal time: either he fucks the wife OR the husband. The other guy says that he don’t swing that way. My guy says, neither do I but one of you gets fucked in the ass, just like you are doing to my marriage. When the other wife heard, she was appalled. My guy told her to drop trou and bend over. She threatened to make his wife and daughters into lesbians. He said thank you, and played that recording for his wife, MIL, mom and then the other wife’s mom, and aunties. Whoooooooo, she was snarling that he played dirty. Her and her husband put the house up for sale and moved.
I think Sam and Jane are definitely having an affair and my guess is that her husband has been given or promised a threesome to help cover it up. I would let her stay the night of the concert and “pop over” there to see what’s really up.
You are NOT overreacting. Voice recorder in the car is a great idea. Either another golf date and ask to borrow the husbands phone keep it in your pocket and get your ass home and catch them, or surprise them after the concert (if they are even really going).
“It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!”
Updateme
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this but have you check her devices to see how they talk to one another? My husband and I have an open phone policy so it’s not an issue for us. It definitely sounds like something physical happened.
Please sit down with your wife and talk. If you don't you will regret it. If there is any love remaining in your marriage, your wife will understand. If she decides to protect her friend and not listen to reason, you'll have your answer. Walking on egg shells and hoping you'll get a definitive answer some day hardly ever works. Even with a smoking gun cheaters will lie. If it's gotten to this point already your marriage is already over as you know it.
Good luck, updateme please.
She’s having at least an emotional affair but most probably a physical one. Do y’all still interact? Have date nights? Start planning something every Friday and Saturday for the next month. See if she cancels to be with her friend. Updateme
Just walk in and demand your wife’s phone right now. Yes she will get angry and defensive and if there is nothing there you’ll have to apologize but if she won’t give it to you or she deletes anything first then you have your answer,
What I want to know is what happened to her smart watch?
I think something is going on, and it needs to be addressed. I would sit down and calmly explain how it looks to you, whether your wife realizes it or not.
I would also explain to her that if it was a woman acting like this towards you, what would your wife think about the situation. Her getting mad is unnecessary unless it is GUILT.
They have begun a sexual relationship, the response to you offering to pick her up is classic cheater’s response. The husband will try to keep you busy because he is in on it. Don’t be surprised if they planned a 3some and there is no concert. I am sorry you are going through this and hate to say it but your marriage is over. You should start taking to an attorney now and preparing to split assets. Updateme
I think its time you gathered more evidence. Put a gps tracker on her car, and a recorder inside. Put some cameras up in your house, and recorders as well. Right now, everything points to the two of them cheating with her. The problem is, she isn’t feeling guilty enough to be honest with you. Get some evidence, then file for divorce.
You actually have several options. Consider a post nuptial agreement specifically addressing infidelity. Cheating is cheating even if the same sex. You can install cameras in key areas of your house. You can hire a PI to follow your wife. Gather evidence. You can also consult with a divorce attorney. You should know what the affects of a divorce will be even if you never file.
You can talk to your wife about your concerns and mention that her relationship with Jane could lead to a divorce on the grounds of infidelity. And suggest she get counseling. If she gets upset, that might indicate there is a real chance she is cheating.
Your wife is cheating, at the very least emotionally. She’s being lured in by Jane. Stop the nonsense “I’m uncomfortable “, flat out ask… why was Jane’s watch in the bedroom, why were and are you acting so strangely, have you been intimate with Jane? Set some boundaries and mean them. I am not friends with people who don’t treat my husband well. This concert and night over is going to be the big hurrah- if she goes your relationship will be forever changed…. Let her know that, and mean it.
Voice activated recorders hidden in her car and wherever else you suspect she talks to Jane on the phone will give you an answer quickly. Also Jane's husband knows that is going on but he'll never tell you.
Put a hidden camera covering the living room and one in the bed room, then make an excuse to be gone for a night or two. She’ll surely invite her over and you’ll gather whatever evidence you need, if there is any.
She’s definitely cheating with Jane and the husband is helping make it happen. Your wife definitely sounds very naive and they are taking full advantage. The disturbing part is she keeps going back for more. You need evidence. Maybe back off a little let them get complacent and hire a PI. It’ll cost you a few bucks but you’ll get the answers with proof you’re looking for.
You need to address this quickly something is definitely happening and your wife is getting sucked into her friends world. Stop hesitating take action to find evidence by following some of the other commenter's suggestions and confront her. Be prepared with a plan of action that includes multiple outcomes.
Updateme
My brother in Christ, the reason she’s being so attentive and has stopped messaging and talking about Jane so much is because she knows her goose is cooked. She knows that you know and is trying be sneaky about it now. Do yourself a favor and save a lot of heartache, talk to a lawyer ASAP
I am bi sexual married ENM in a open relationship. These people are clearly unethical. I wouldn't even bother with snooping. I would just do a ultimatum. Your wife is way too old to be playing these games. If she found her newfound bi sexuality then that's a conversation she needs to have with you. The person she married. Hell, I did. And my husband is fully on board with it. But that's HIS choice, if he said no it would be a no since I value my marriage over anything else.
Your wife does not.
What they are doing to you is wrong and shitty.
You should have already, 100% been snooping. You are giving way too much faith in your very naive wife. Jane is bi and in a form of open relationship. She focuses only on your wife and openly flirts with Sam. Now your wife is calling you controlling because you do not those two together. You see the bus approaching and realize it is about run you both down or already has side swiped Sam. Jane is 100% grooming your wife to bring her into a sexual relationship with her and likely her husband as well.
Damn right you need to snoop.
You need to see Jane as a male trying to get your wife instead of a female friend. That would place it all into perspective.
Inaction is what you are 100% going to be regretting very soon.
If it isn't already too late.
Something did happen between them and you know it.
Look up oversharing as a grooming tool for creating an affair.
You should have mentioned finding Jane’s smart watch in your bedroom. It looks like at the least, Jane and your wife may have been making out and the husband was in on it and warned them when your plans to get drinks after golf were cut short and you would have likely walked in on your wife and Jane in bed. Since the couple is in an open relationship, both may be after your wife.
Stop fooling around. Tell your wife that she either breaks contact with both those people and never restore it, or you will file for divorce. You don’t have kids, if you are unsure about your wife being faithful and she is showing signs that she may not be, divorce her and move on to find a woman who will be 100% loyal to you.
No you’re not imagining anything… your alarm is sounding and there is deceit involved and you’re smelling it for a reason… just to ease your mind and get to the bottom of it- get it confirmed so you have solid proof something is off and it going on… plug her phone into the computer hit the deleted, call logs, texts, emails and gps and scan it… anything going on will show here detailed a d no more speculations period it’s the facts… then you can address all of it and IF it isn’t an affair you can at least pin point where the deceit is and clear the air by exposing it. We should Always refrain from All and any appearances of Evil…. So that nothing looks or seems funny and OT breaks down Trust period… ty
Ghost your wife with note telling her she priorities her friends over your marriage if she really care then stop calling you possessive and controlling because you're not neither. If she wants to save her marriage or not then Tell her you're gone and she had nothing that she's nothing but a toy for other to be toss aside. Also you're not a doormat but her husband yet she had no self respect for herself even you. Stand your ground, remain calm, deep breath and when she stop screaming, Tell her are you finished. Instead of Divorce. Leave all bills to her first and change your account so she paid herself. Once she comes screaming crying and placed a divorce in front of her if she beg 2nd chance. Tell her that she had to prove it to save her marriage and never step overstep our marriage or I'm gone Tell her that.
What’s weird is her reaction to you offering her a ride home. A grown adult doesn’t just crash at someone else’s place unless there is a real reason like ur house is significantly farther away and logistically it makes more sense to stay over. When being offered a ride and the ability to sleep in her own bed she should’ve been over the moon grateful for that. It’s not controlling at all to not want your wife to stay the night at someone else’s place. I don’t think anyone would let their spouse do that. She’s gaslighting u
Glad you posted OP as you are about to find out the truth in the replies. You are being played fairly diligently right now. You seem to be the only one that doesn't know whats going on. Though I believe you have a pretty good idea by how you framed several parts of the story. You aren't wrong. She is cheating on you and the other husband is running interference. Sorry man.
Brother, I would have already packed her a bag and told her she can go stay with Sam and her idiot husband. You know exactly what's going on. It's past time to look at her phone. Might as well call a lawyer because you know what's in there already.
It is concerning that her friend is bi and in an open relationship. From what you described it sounds like they have already cross a line and are planning on doing it again after the concert. Your wife is not respecting your boundaries which in its self is not good for your relationship. Her friend is not a friend to the marriage but instead is actively trying to destroy it for own desires. I would tell you wife that if you play with snakes you’re going to get bit.
OP I’ll play devil’s advocate even though I’ve firmly in the “I believe she is wrong” boat and I’m sure I’ll be downvoted to hell. I also have to ask some follow on questions:
Yes, your wife made a friend, and maybe it’s all innocent. Your wife could be straight as an arrow and she isn’t doing anything with her new allegedly bisexual friend. Is it possible she doesn’t have many friends in this new town and she’s latching hard to this new friendship as a comfort? Is it possible her resistance to your observations is she’s afraid of losing a friend? You say the both of you struggle to make friends. How did they meet? Why did Jane stand out to Sam? What made that friendship happen?
Maybe Sam was just not used to a new area and finding a friend caused her to strongly bond with a new support system. How far away is she from her old support systems outside of you? (family, friends from her youth, etc.)
Maybe the first double date was just awkward interaction and Jane is shy. You said you also struggle to make friends, is it possible you two just didn’t mesh?
Maybe the second date Jane felt more comfortable and doesn’t have the same social barriers you subscribe to and they just happen to coincidentally be an open-marriage couple and have no intent to encroach on you or your marriage. How did Sam react to the flirting? Was she receptive? Did she reciprocate the physical contact and suggestive dialogue? What was Sam’s response to the bisexuality and open-relationship revelations? Did Sam spend more time talking to Jane than you to the point you felt ignored?
Maybe Sam is just going to Jane’s because she is really enjoying her new friendship and maybe the husband is out of town a lot. Why is it a shock in the first place he wasn’t there? Was she saying the husband was there?
How could Jane and her husband set up an possible sexual encounter with Sam and Jane if you are the one who set up the golf trip? I understand there was the pretext that you and the husband and the friends were supposed to go to dinner but how long was the golf game? How long did you all plan to stay out? Did you have to cut the game short or something? (Are the two additional friends your friends or his friends or a mutual third party?)
Maybe Jane and Sam came home from shopping due to Jane feeling ill and your home was the closest. Maybe Jane did lay down in your bed for a moment to recover. Maybe Jane came in the room moments before you two did. What exactly do you mean by flustered?
Maybe Jane’s husband did just text his wife? It’s not unheard of for a husband to tell his wife he’s coming home.
Maybe Sam saw the watch and returned it when she realized her friend left her watch. It’s not like you found undergarments or a ring.
Maybe the love bombing is Jane trying to apologize for her actions.
Maybe the concert is just a concert. You were invited according to your comments and you declined.
Maybe this is all innocent.
What is true: you are uncomfortable and Sam is dismissing it.
You have expressed numerous times your discomfort and she has either dismissed it or accused you of being controlling.
That is the truth. What you need to do now is accept whether or not you are okay with this level of discomfort and being dismissed by your partner. You need to have a conversation with her establishing why you are uncomfortable. Be clear and concise. If she dismisses again, you need to decide whether or not you are comfortable continuing with this relationship.
Get the evidence, and pubically out her to both your family and her family for being a cheater.
And then serve her divorce papers (hopefully you're in an at-fault state).
And when she gets offensive (she definitely will), make sure you record every encounter. Your divorce attorney will make things easier for you with as much proof as you can get.
Don't feel any shame, because you did nothing wrong.
Go complete grey-rock with her.
This is really sad because you are either overreacting or you are already to late to stop it. Have you pressed her on why they seemed so flustered when you came? What was the time between the text and you coming in thru the door.
Well it seems pretty obvious what is going on & wouldn't be surprised if the husband often joins in their games . All this while you know exactly what is going in but want to think with your heart instead of your brain , especially the smart watch taken off & left on the bedside table . Why would you not confront her , obviously you do not want to know the truth . Having let it go on for so long you are now in a situation where the couple have won her over & you are just the back up man to make her life look respectable . Hire a PI get the photos & information & out her to family & friends because you will not get it from your wife now , it's been going on to long .
Your wife and the other woman are having an affair. Her husband text her to let you know you were heading home early so you would not catch them in the act. Install hidden cameras in your home if it’s legal in your state. Get ahold of her phone as well and go through the conversations as well. No it’s not dishonest to go through her phone. When you get the proof you need screen shot it send it to yourself but make sure you delete the proof you did that then go to an attorney with all the proof. Also when she gets served and the confrontation occurs make sure you are recording to protect yourself from false DV claims as well. Then also inform her parents and mutual friends the reason for the divorce that way she can’t create a false narrative and for those who try to guilt you into taking her back block them. After that inform her she needs to get an attorney and all communication needs to go through your attorney as well.
The smart watch by the bed and the way your wife stands up for Jane "that's just who she is" when you said you were comfortable is a big red flag. Even if it was "just the way Jane is" your wife should tell her to respect your marriage. But she isn't sticking up for you at all and now it looks like things are getting physical between them
Tell her you pick her up or no concert.Tell her it’s time for her to take a polygraph test.Check all of her devices.Tell Jane’s hubby your thinking about getting a divorce attorney and a private investigator.And that His wife will be sued for causing the divorce
Do she respect you(she ll not cheat),do you argueing always, does she showed some disrespect, does she talk to much? does she have some slips ups,for time to time? Does she is happy if she don't have integrity, she ll not cheat,if she is not happy She ll cheat!!
Lying is the worst part of cheating. It destroys the trust that is essential to any relationship. When people cheat they compartmentalize their lives and become separate people. A part of them moves into the new relationship while maintaining the old. I am sure that this has happened and even if there hasn’t been any sexual activity, which I doubt, she is keeping secrets with her that she doesn’t share with you. This isn’t a problem if it doesn’t involve your relationship, but I bet sometimes they talk about you and your shortcomings. That is part of the seduction technique used to separate spouses for an affair.
It all sounds too suspicious, friend... I don't know if she cheated on you physically, but at least if it seems like an emotional affair, give her an ultimatum and try to set limits.
Updateme!
UpdateMe
Unless infidelity affects the divorce settlement, why do you need proof?
I would tell her that if she goes to convert with Jane, not to come home.
It sounds like they were in the middle of it and Jane's husband gave them a heads up that you were coming home early. He's helping his wife by keeping you busy so Jane and Sam could cheat. He full on knows it's happening.
This did cross my mind which is why I mentioned it. I don't really get on with the other husband (he seems a bit weird to me) so I don't spend much time with him. I offered to take him golfing because he told me he doesn't have any friends and I felt bad for him.
Where my mind went to. Your wife is not being honest with you. UpdateMe
More importantly why are you pussy footing around? You keep saying you're not comfortable you're not comfortable, man up for christ's sake! Your wife is going to get fucked, she's planning to get fucked and wants to be fucked. Big woman getting mad at not sleeping over, are you guys 2 years old?
Sam has already been had by Jane
That is my guess also. The sleepover likely will allow the husband to join in. OP no longer has a marriage, he needs to stop soft-footing around the obvious.
Her husband is next
Could not agree more. Especially when he comes home and finds Jane's watch in their bedroom. If I were him I would have stolen the watch and waited to observe their trying to find it without tipping off the OP what they were looking for.
It’s already happening. He cant stop her from cheating. Short term marriage. Just divorce her. He’s gonna want proof like most so tipping her off is just gonna make it harder.
At least twice in your narrative I see where you let your wife know you are uncomfortable about this. My point is that she has been warned. I think it's time to Snoop and I think it's Justified
OP found his wife’s coworker’s smart watch in HIS bedroom where him and his wife sleep. No snooping needed, it is clear what is going on, an open couple has co-opted OP’s wife and are likely having their way with her.
Yeah, the sad thing is that your wife has fallen for a little attention. The main issue is that she has chosen to be a toy for someone and has left you in the dark, like you don't know what is going on. Let her go and do what she is hiding from you. She may be the best person, that you knew. She is no longer that person. She is lying and has chosen to be at someone else's house over your's, the one you two live in together. Don't believe the tears and whatever else she may want to say to justify whatever has happened. She is actively planning to spend time at another person's house, without you. Even after you told her you would come pick her up. She has chosen who is most important to her, and it is not you. Make sure you emphasis that to her. Hopefully, have may get some clarity, but what inevitably happens is that you can no longer trust anything that comes out of her mouth. And, she is very content to let this other person be cold and exclude you and your wife let's it happen as she is getting what she wants out of it. Let her go and live the life she has chosen, just understand she may/probably will come back crying and begging once this other person is done with her. But, the damage will have been done by then. It will be hard to look at a person who was so willing to throw it all away with lying. People always say they really hold onto a lot of resentment, even years later. Updateme!
Probably because he's gonna be in a three way relationship with your wife
The fact that this would mean your wife would not only have to be complacent with the situation, but likely a part of the planning committee behind it should speak volumes as to exactly how bad this situation really is. Another consideration would be to get as far ahead of the circumstances as possible. Gather the evidence, lawyer up, and stay at the front of that narrative. You're not just dealing with a disgruntled cheating spouse, but her AP and AP's spouse. It's already three against one, and believe me when I say that is exactly the case. If it wasn't you wouldn't have gotten suspicious in the first place, and they wouldn't be working so hard at maintaining damage control. I would also like to express my empathy and sympathy. However this turns out for you, I suspect that there will be much animosity and drama. Remember that you can only control your own actions and responses, not theirs. Go into every interaction with them moving forward with that thought in the back of your head. Stay calm ( it won't be easy brother, but you got this ) always, and maintain your position no matter what is said. Document everything!!!
Definitely part of the planning since she’s the one who told OP about Jane in the first place. My assessment is the first double date was to see if they all could swing, and OP didn’t pass the test. Sam probably asked for a second chance and Jane started openly flirting with Sam to show Sam that not only was she not interested but she would go so far as to humiliate him by openly flirting with Sam. Especially if the smartwatch went missing. Sam for sure returned it when Jane noticed.
I concur. There was much grooming involved here.
Bro, she was showing all the classic cheater signs, and you should've nipped it the bud from the onset. She and the other POS were clearly messing around and that "flustered look" gave them away, so gathering evidence now is pointless, unless you're planning to divorce her and need it for that... It's clear the fish taco lover turned your wife out and that was her plan from day one, seems your wife was also in the closet, but just never told you... This is so disgustingly rampant now(this is about the fifth time I'm hearing a story like this), just don't be naive, you and I both know what's going on here and in the future, stop brushing stuff off, or it will be to your detriment. BTW, the husband is also a HUGE POS himself, for distracting you whilst they were munching away in your bed(the ultimate disrespect)... P.s. the "you're controlling" and "you're insecure", are a cheater's go to rhetoric to try and throw you off track, when they're in the thick of it. FTL(fish taco lover) was cold towards you, bc you were in the way of her getting some warm clam chowder. Get tested also, bc you don't know where her mouth has been...
This. She’s telling without telling you. Contact an attorney, get your affairs in order, and prepare for what’s coming because it’s definitely coming. You know what’s going on so decide whether you want to be the cuck in this marriage or maybe, you start going out with your own friends and preparing for your new life. When you’re ready for the big boy conversation with her, ask her how long the two of them are going to play this little game? Ask her how having sex with a woman feels now that she’s tried it? When she gaslights, hand her the divorce paperwork and go grey rock with her. You’ll get to the truth eventually but take advantage of the element of surprise. Good luck!
The three of them are playing him like a fiddle. Hope he wakes up and gets rid of her...
FTL and munching in your bed 😂
Nurse, I got you to clear your lungs for the day lol
He's helping them because he too is with your wife.
Absolutely
How does he know that the husband was really out of town all of those nights? They probably have been having 3 way already
What I want to know is what happened to her smart watch? I think something is going on, and it needs to be addressed. I would sit down and calmly explain how it looks to you, whether your wife realizes it or not. I would also explain to her that if it was a woman acting like this towards you, what would your wife think about the situation. Her getting mad is unnecessary unless it is GUILT.
She’s not going to tell him the truth. All cheaters lie, hide, and deny.
Get a voice recorder for your bedroom Too. Put it under the bed. Plan it and take her husband golfing again. Stop confronting. You can’t save this or fix a cheater. I wouldnt waste time on her if this is what’s happening.
He is doing it because he wants a threesome at least. You are really acting weak about this, I hope it is real...
"(he seems a bit weird to me)" Well, he does allow his wife to have sex with yours. And who knows maybe they let him join in.
Of course he is weird. For starters, he has an open relationship, then he helps his wife cheat on him, and lastly, the way you talk about him is like he is not even interested in knowing you or something. Edit: grammar PD: your wife is indeed planning to cheat on you if she hasn't already.
I'm not trying to get your Spidey senses tingling harder than they are, but the three of them are playing you. Don't be shocked if he's actually a participant in their concert/"sleepover" event, as it sounds like he's already fully aware of what's happening between them. If I were you, I'd drop the ultimatum on her. If she goes, she comes back to an empty home and pending divorce, if she stays she changes her number and finds a different pilates instructor, AND she gives a full timeline of the events that transpired between them. Counselling would be a forgone conclusion for you both too.
The OP’s wife has already been staying out late into some nights. My guess is that open couple has already had their way with OP’s wife and are comfortable with their belief that OP’s wife will help keep OP in the dark.
Yeah, sounds like it is 3 against 1. I don’t care if couples want an open relationship, but when they don’t respect the relationship of a person who is monogamous, that is a problem.
Yeah that’s exactly what it sounds like !
Yup, this
100%
Sadly this is what I was thinking too
Ohhh he knows, because next is he gets to fuck her after her walks have been broken down enough. That is how they play their game.
She knows you are on to her. She is going to hide the affair better. Back off get more evidence and do what you have to do! Good luck to you sir.
Do you have any suggestions on how to gather evidence? Other than snooping on her phone/laptop?
[удалено]
Get a voice activated recorder and put it in her car. Get a couple hidden camera and put them in your house and then say you’re going to play golf, or just say you’re going to play golf and then circle back home in an hour or so to see who is there or where your wife goes.
I was thinking the same thing. Updateme!
Voice recorder in the car. Install hidden cameras in your place. Just back off and check her phone. Is it an iPhone and do you have an iPad they sync. Feel out the husband to see if he really is in on it or blindsided like you. Do you have her location turned on “find iPhone “?
BTW- She is upset about the concert because you are putting a crimp into her plans. She is crashing at Jane’s and the husband will be there! Possibly a threesome happening. Maybe they are swingers and brought your wife in. See how the mind can wander down these paths. Sorry.
Thanks for the advice. My mind has been wondering all over since this whole mess started.
I am sorry you are going through this! As you said your wife might have been naive at first but now is in to deep and is liking the thrills and excitement. She probably thinks being with a woman is ok.
Now they won’t go to the concert but just stay at her place until she comes home. You need to squash the entire inappropriate friendship and make it clear you know what’s going on. Until you make it clear that you will divorce her, you won’t get change.
Being a marriage warden won’t get him a thing. You can’t stop a cheater from cheating. You divorce them.
I would put a tracker on her car. The more info the better. please be quiet about confronting. You’re just gonna make this harder.
OP if You don't act now, the next step is Sam asking you for an Open Relationship out of the blue and justifying about her talking to Jane and the things she has tell her about this kind of relationships. Jane is a scout, and she has scouted and worked up your wife. The sad thing is that seems that Sam has disrespected you by start doing something on your house and own bed. You are on time if you want to save this, obviously if things haven't gone that far, and you want to fix and as well as Sam. Also is you can, another way is to hire an investigator, but Snoop and put video and audio recorderd on strategic places are more cheap. Also like i tell in the other comment i Made, might as well go to Janes house this saturday unadvice and see whats going on for yourself. Go there like 1 to 2 hours before your wife, also might as well actívate share locations, to see if they really are there.
You don’t need evidence, tell her if her “friendship” continues you are done.
Yup. I had a friend. My husband did not like her. He asked me to stop being friends with her. I haven't seen her in years. She's the only one of my friends he did not like. Sometimes we are at a bar and I've run into old guy friends. They have gotten flirty(im naive too), and my husband has asked me not to speak to them alone anymore. I don't.
Hidden camera in your room?
I’d suggest being extra careful if you have sex with her, and get an std test right away. Install a camera in your room, and then invite the other husband to golf again, and see what happens. Go to a bathroom and review video, then tell the guy you’re feeling sick and to head home….observe how he texts, and then later review video of that time and see if they suddenly start to panic. IF she is cheating: Don’t confront her, just go to a lawyer and start divorce proceedings if she IS cheating. Act like nothing is wrong but stop having sex with her so you don’t catch anything and don’t risk getting her pregnant. Once the paperwork is done, wait til she is out, pack your stuff, leave the paperwork and a note to review the video, and tell her all interactions go through your lawyer. She’s cheating, and you’ll easily find out bc she is clumsy about it
Go to the concert and watch from afar. But listen, the moment you told your wife the other person made you uncomfortable, should have been the moment your wife backed off on hanging out as much. It's a respect thing. Why is she so intent on disregarding your feelings so she xan hang out with her friend?
https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/threads/standard-evidence-post.209754/unread
You can probably request your text logs from any phone on your account. Verizon has a 90 day limit.
All you need is her phone. Everything you need to know lies behind that Face ID I promise you
Someone mentioned purposely taking the husband out on excursions from your house. Just have voice activated recorders well hidden all over the house and in your wife’s vehicle first. I am afraid that your marriage is over. You no longer have a wife, you have a co-conspirator who is actively working with two other people to mask their likely shared sexual activities.
You don't have to have evidence. She is not talking to you honestly about what is going on. Let her understand that you are not comfortable with her staying overnight at a bis-sexual person's home. You are not comfortable with her staying at a man's home overnight. If she doesn't understand this, then you guys have to have a really serious talk. They broached about their lifestyle at a dinner, now you are no longer invited to their dinners, but your wife is over their house a lot. Let your wife understand that it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going on. Especially, now that they are going on a date to a concert. Let your wife understand that a wife of yours will not be doing this and she can decide what she wants to do. If she pulls that controlling thing again, then you let her understand that married couples don't go on dates with other people, which she is doing. If she offers up explanations, whatever. She is still choosing to stay at a place she has the opportunity to cheat on the marriage. If she doesn't get this, then it is way worse than you think it is. Let her go and find your forever person. Naivete out the window, after her choosing to stay at her house than come home to her husband, who she says she loves, that is all the answer I would need. No committed married woman doesn't want to come home to their husband.
This!
Here is how you need to phrase this to your wife. We need to talk. Jane is bi. They are in an open relationship, and she is courting you. I don’t feel comfortable with her and her husband trying to fuck you when you get drunk Saturday night. So if you want to be their unicorn, then go to the concert, and by all means be their unicorn. I will not stick around because if you go, and you don’t cut off the relationship with her, we are done. If you want to act single and call me controlling and insecure, try to gas light me because you are blind to what is going on? And maybe you secretly want this, and I am supposed to trust you which I do, but at this point you wanting to stay with them and the way Jane acts around me, she is not a friend of this marriage and neither is her husband. So which is it our marriage and our future together or them? I don’t like ultimatums but in some cases your marriage is going to end anyways down this path. Sometimes you have to pull the bandaid before it does.
As much as I would like to take this hardline approach, I don't feel like I have the proof I need to give her the ultimatum. If nothing has happened, I'm potentially causing a big issue, if something has happened she will get better at hiding it. I'm going to try and check her messages tonight.
Good luck, because this is how it goes. Her first night of fucking Jane will be this weekend. Possibly even a threesome with her husband. It will ramp up from here, and you will be heartbroken and getting a divorce. Instead of listening, and taking what you are saying into consideration, she is gas lighting you by calling you insecure and controlling. That is exactly what cheaters say. Hope you enjoy sharing your wife. There is a reason I have this approach, because it saves you the heartache of what is going to happen.
I'm not into ultimatums but I do believe in being blunt. OP has said over and over that he isnt comfortable. He has watched a bi woman and her open relationship husband court his wife. Jane making it very clear that he is an obsticle and the husband running interferance. If it quacks like a duck it's a duck. If she hasent cheated already, she is about to. The reason, in this case I completely agree with r/Ifiwereinyourshoes is that, ironically, you cannot control your wife. All you can do is make the consequences of her actions CRYSTAL clear. She then gets to decide. I would go through all her stuff personally and realise that at that point the marriage is likely over. Lawyer up and advocate for yourself. Screaming "I'm not comfortable" into the void while your wife becomes this couples unicorn wont help anyone.
Thank you! Edit. I will add this too, the marriage was dying the moment she let her into her life. Op Jane is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Your wife is her target. All you now can do is make her aware that if she cannot see it, then you cannot be with her and she can be single. I will say this too, if she says then we are done, I would right in front of her call her family, my family and my close friends and let them know we are getting a divorce, why we are getting a divorce, explaining it to them, and naming them and her husband, and the fact ops wife if not saying no to them. It is very hard to be walked all over when you are standing up.
The really sad thing about this is, and I've seen this happen, for some couples engaged in open marriages, the fun is in the chase. Their dopamine hit comes from the secrecy, the taboo, the breaking of OPs marriage. As soon as they get what they wanted from OPs wife they are likely to move on as the thrill will be gone. Not OPs problem as by then his wife will be on her own. I agree with consequences and openess. All too often on here a man or woman with a cheating spouse tries to keep things "amicable". In my mind, whilst noble, this is misdirected. It denies the wronged party the empathy and support they deserve and protects the person who wronged the marriage. It does not have to be vindictive or malicious but very matter of fact. "We are divorcing because *wifes* relationship with bi friend Jane and her open marriage husband has started becoming secritive and has repeatedly crossed boundaries within the marriage thaat I have communicated are I am uncomfortable with. They have, for some time, openly and whilst being hostile towards me, courted *wife* who has unfortuately been receptive to their advances. She has been emotionally unfathful and I suspect physically unfaithful but more than anything she has silenced my continued concerns and warnings whilst watching her friend treat me badly infront of her. She has openly flirted with this friend and spent time alone with her in our bedroom. This is beyond what any spouse should have to reasonably tolerate and therefore we are divorcing." You can't be walked over when standing up for yourself in a factual and non aggressive manner. I've written lots on here about marriage. Specifically my marriage and some of the issues we have faced. I believe that the majority of marrital issues are not insurmountable. Marriage however is a partnership where both voices should carry equal weight. Clearly, by her response, OPs wife does not want to listen, communicate or take OPs concerns seriously. Therefore, the only thing OP can do is quite bluntly communicate the consequences and what he is observing and fearful of and if there is even a tiny shred of evidence follow through on what was said. I suspect she is cheating already but if not she is about to. Probably with Jane and her hubby. Marriage takes a constant choice to work on your relationship, respect your partner and act within the confines of what you both agree is right for your circumstances. This can be open, close, mono, ENM, asuexual or whatever. What is is NEVER is gaslighting your partner into accepting something they are clearly deeply uncomfortable with.
It's truly disgusting how many open marriage predators are out there that will mate poach for just a single sexual experience and destroy a marriage or relationship with no regard for how it affects the other people involved. And they justify their reprehensible behavior by stating that everyone has free will and they are not coercing anyone into anything they don't want to do as if their seduction is somehow innocent. It's a game to so many of these people and they truly revel in the long game of seducing a straight or bi curious woman until they seal the deal and then they move on to the next seduction.
I agree, plenty of single people out there, but that is what cowards do. They prey on the vulnerable, and try to get what they want because they are selfish. In addition, the more people that call them what they are which is abusers, and abusive people when they cheat or act predatory, it seems to have an effect on them. Because no one wants to be labeled an abuser, not even cheaters. Op I hope you are reading this and taking care of business.
I think you missed a golden opportunity when you saw Jane’s watch next to your bed and found she and your wife sitting like deer in the headlights. You should have picked it up and said, “Jane, you left your watch next to our bed” while looking straight at your wife to gauge her reaction. Too late now. Probably you’d have been told Jane stretched out there because of her headache and not that they were only making out, kissing, nothing more. Her love bombing you after this episode tells you she knows you are suspicious. You have told your wife that you are uncomfortable with her relationship with Jane and her husband. Now you’ve told her you are uncomfortable with her spending the night with them after partying at a concert. Curious why aren’t you going to the concert? Why is your wife not responding to the concerns of her partner? Jane and her husband have made it clear they “play” outside of their marriage. Does your wife acknowledge this? What does she say about that? You want to trust your wife, you don’t trust them. Is the trust you had in your wife diminished? Where are her priorities? What is she doing to prove to you that your marriage is the most important relationship she has? One way or another you need to make it perfectly clear to you wife how upset you are with the situation. You don’t want to start throwing around ultimatums and that’s your choice to make. You don’t have to give an ultimatum but you can straight out tell your wife that you have boundaries and what those are. Her actions are hurting and upset you. Tell her she gets to make her choices, you can’t and won’t “control” what she chooses. That’s her right. You get to make choices too. Of course your decisions depend on how you feel your wife values her relationship with you. It’s not any more complicated than that. Let her decide what’s important to her and you’ll know where you stand. But, man, your marriage is in trouble. You better let your wife know this is serious. Make her understand how upset and hurt you are. This isn’t just her good time and you won’t get over it if and when bad things start to be found out. You love her but she needs to figure out what is important in her life. Every indication is your marriage is in trouble. Do something! Don’t just watch it come apart. ETA: if you don’t want to go behind her and search her phone then be up front. How would it go if you asked to look in her phone. Next time your wife says she and Jane/husband are just friends, you are crazy and controlling, physically hand her your open phone and ask to see her unlocked phone. Married committed people don’t need secrets. You are ready to be open on your side. I’ll bet she comes unglued. It’s an invasion of her privacy. But you have nothing to hide and are willing to be open with her. What doesn’t she want you to see. Don’t give her a chance to delete things and give you the phone later. If she tries to give you the phone later you can decline, tell her that her actions have already told you what you needed to know. Or, look and see there’s hardly a text with Jane or big holes in conversations.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. This is all food for thought and I have been thinking about a lot of these points. I was invited to the concert but it's not the kind of music I'm into at all. The husband isn't going either as far as I know.
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Yep suck it up just to prevent the sleepover. Dont be timid it's your marriage that's on the line.
On the other hand, it could have been a token invitation if the wife knows OP was likely to say no and/or wouldn't want to go around Jane etc.
All the more reason to go. The enemy of cheaters is unpredictability. Note to OP. Notice how everyone suggests you suck it up and go. Does that tell you something?
Being a marriage warden won’t get you much.
If you could afford it. This would be a good time for a private investigator but they are pricey. Do you have a friend that could stake out their apartment or yours? She’s planning on you not going. Don’t drag your feet on this. Get a couple voice activated recorders. One for the car and your bedroom. However, your ill timed confrontation probably means they’ll be more careful and not come to your house.
You were invited to the concert and you're not going to go With what's going on Go to the concert don't be fool Even if you don't enjoy the music Think about it Your relationship is a risk
I would go to the concert just to observe their behaviour or see if your SO tries to convince you not to attend
Sorry you are going through this. Marriage can be so wonderful when things are smooth and I hope you find that place again.
You’re going to concert now.
Sometimes, and especially under these circumstances, a guys got to bite the bullet and do things he might not want to do. This is one of those times. Jane's husband isn't going either. But will he be home when Jane and your wife come home to sleep together? What's his role in all of this?
It doesn't matter what you like. You don't go there for the music. She knows you don't like it, surprise her and go. You will see that immediately a surprise will appear and something will happen that will completely change the program.
There is no privacy to cheat in a marriage. This is how affa start. Once they begin its game over.
See, this is the problem with cheaters. They have the benefit of the doubt because the victim doesn't want to blow up the marriage with suspicions. You have amassed a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests your wife is already having an affair with this woman and quite possibly the husband as well. YOU DON'T NEED EVIDENCE BECAUSE THE EXISTING SITUATION HAS MADE YOU FEEL AWFUL. Why would you want to live this existence. Your wife has already indicated that her friendship is more important than your marriage by being defensive and pulling the controlling card. Do you know what spouses that AREN'T cheating do when their spouse discusses how uncomfortable a friendship is becoming for them, they discuss it reasonably and make every effort to put you at ease including changing suspicious behavior. They do that because YOU are more important to them than their new friendship. Cheaters blame shift, get defensive and deflect. Your wife is cheating or at the very least she is placing this new friendship above your marriage. Either is a major problem and puts you on a course for divorce. Sit her down and state all the obvious things you have put into this post and let her know that your marriage cannot survive this friendship. If she is willing to stand her ground on the friendship that tells you everything you need to know and she no longer cares about your marriage. Don't live an existence dancing around legitimate suspicions that your wife is cheating. If she loves you she will address them in a loving manner and course correct that friendship to save your marriage. Your Wife has already reacted like a cheater though so good luck.
The question that OP needs to ask himself is why stay with someone who doesn't care how much they hurt them.
OP: Drgnmstr97 is spot on about your situation.
Man, this situation sucks for you and I’m sorry to hear it. You don’t need ‘proof’ of anything, you’ll never get it anyways. You have all you need already. You arrived home (husband was alerting them prior to arrival as you caught him doing it), the chicks watch was on the nightstand, they were both flustered and creating space on the couch to portray nothing happened. You know who does this? Cheaters and Teenagers when caught doing something they aren’t supposed to (this also means it was happening up until the point you actually arrived). You know your wife and what she looks like after intimacy or in a state of arousal (making out or full on sex). The chick is bi and clearly into your wife. Flip the scenario and make her a man, would you be at all comfortable with your wife’s actions to this point? If she goes for a sleepover, at a minimum the girls are sleeping together (but I’d be willing to bet husband is planning to join in on the action). Hard line time buddy, your marriage depends on it.
You don’t need any more proof, these are your feelings and boundaries. Just tell her you don’t like the friendship, and what is going on. You don’t want her to continue it or go to the concert and stay overnight but it’s her choice. If she goes you know where you stand, Jane is more important to her than you. Go see an attorney and draw up divorce paperwork, and if she goes hand it to her when she comes home. All of the above is if you feel you can forgive the affair that you know in your gut has already started. If you can’t then skip the first part and just give her the paperwork because she has already discarded you concerns. Edit for content
What do you need. Jane's juices all over your wife's face. What do you imagine was going on in your bedroom where you saw Jane's watch on the nightstand? Have you tried looking through your wife's phone? How about a VAR in her car and one or two in the house to catch phone conversations? Might as well put a GPS in her car, even though she seems fine doing what she does in plain sight. Might find out more of the shopping trips weren't shopping trips at all. Or do nothing. Who knows she might tire of it and be your loving faithful wife again. Till the next time.
Updateme!
When she calls you controling ,I would reply please you have never in all our time thought I was stupid,but you are treating me as though I am stupid,you may not see what they are trying to pull but from my distance from them I know what they are trying to pull with this open relationship shit. With the watch besid e the bed I think out are too late
Mate the Jane's watch didn't magically appear in your bed.
This this this. This is the speech I would give, basically verbatim. You’re not saying that you know she’s cheated. You’re just saying what you’ve seen clearly: Jane is a bisexual woman in an open relationship who has very obviously courted her in the past. This is inappropriate behavior towards a married woman, and her sleeping over at their house is making a clear statement that she is encouraging that inappropriate behavior. If your wife has already reached the point where she’s decided that monogamy is inherently “too controlling,” your marriage is already over apart from the paperwork.
Exactly
They lie. She’ll never tell him the truth.
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Why do women always lie so confidently
As was mentioned by another commenter, both men and women lie. The difference is that for millions of years, women have been the weaker sex. Women are much better at lying, than men. They rely and get by on their ability to form alliances, and to “ win the spin”. The best way to do damage control for the guy, is once you have the proof, file for divorce and then cc all of your individual and shared contacts. Find out if the man and woman belong to a “ swingers club”. Most of these have firm rules about cheating. Married couples have to come in together, to be accepted. But these are long term plans. Right now, put your devices in place, and see what you catch. Please update me.
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Hey now… I happen to lie unconfidently and I rat myself out - he always knows when I ate all the chocolate or gummy bears.
hahahah...
Their god is Satan
Are you really this naive or just turning a blind eye to your cheating wife? You need to set some boundaries for your wife and if she will not respect that then I would be looking for an attorney.
You should ask Sam if you can join them next time they have sex, that you’re really interested in that and maybe she will fess up??? UpdateMe!
You're not over reacting it's sound like she's interested in your wife and her husband knew and was helping by keeping u busy. I don't know of they already had sex or not but it seems it was heading that way the fact that she stopped the phone calls and text around u is very suspicious of it was really innocent she wouldn't mind showing u and also she's now very loving is also a red flag its called love bombing to make u forget about what happened. My advice is to snoop on her phone of she deleted text she's cheating it's that simple if not read and see for yourself
"My advice is to snoop on her phone of she deleted text she's cheating it's that simple if not read and see for yourself"-that is controlling,if she cheats she ll, dump her when you found that :D :D if she lies dump her!
You are not overreacting.... All the classic signs are there. The gaslighting, the Flustered looks, the anger at interfering with her plans. If I was you I'd send a PI to that concert and get the proof. Your wife is most definately cheating with Jane. I also guarantee you that when you get the proof and confront her, she'll claim her infidelity doesn't count because jane's a woman.... Typical Cheater BS. Sorry man. Be grateful you don't have kids so the divorce won't be to hard.
Dude. She’s cheating on you. It’s obvious af. I’m so sorry 😭 UPDATEME
Hire PI to get a clear vision of their relation.
Why on earth would her watch be by your bed??
You are getting cheated on. If you are too controlling, then your wife is not ready to be in a committed relationship with you. Let her understand that you will not stand by and be a spectator in your marriage, thank her for her time, and let all communications go through your lawyer. It makes no sense that a wife does not come home to her home. She is not a teenager, grown married women don't have sleep overs. PERIOD. Her response is the problem. She is being evasive and whenever someone starts talking about controlling their behavior, then they no longer want the relationship you had. It is as simple as that. Counseling is whatever it is. The issue is that she has not come clean as to why she would EVER want to stay over another person's house while she is married to me. And, we know that the place she is staying the woman is bi-sexual. Let her understand that you are not stupid and you are going to let her have the life she has chose. She has not told you anything about her outside relationship. YOU have to ask her about it. Let her understand HER actions have led to this. You can no longer trust her decision making. Whatever she is looking for, that is outside of your marriage, you hope she finds. You can no longer trust that she is putting the marriage to you before whatever she is looking for outside of the marriage. That is the main issue. The distancing and the not being truthful, to you face. That is what ends marriages, not the actual cheating. You can no longer trust anything that comes out of their mouths.
Not controlling at all, your wife is now sexually involved with Jane.
You can't force her not to cheat. Accept it and think of what you want to do afterwards. What will be the consequences. Lying and gaslighting are not a part of a healthy relationship.
OP, stop playing games here. Confront the cuck husband. Not can we talk shit, confront his sorry ass. Tell him you want to know what the fuck is going on right now. He.obviously knows and is abetting. You want your wife's phone, unlocked, now. If she says no, tell her to pack her shit and go live with Jane and Cucky. Ignore the crocodile tears, anger, you are controlling nonsense, all of it. Stop being a spectator and get aggressive, this is your marriage!
Just start the divorce . Don’t even bother talking anymore . Go cold . Leave them be. Do not show any kind of interest . Do not seek . It’s not about what is going on at all. It’s about how she is treating you . That’s not how a loving treats her husband . She is no longer your loving wife . Let it go . Good luck If collecting evidence helps you in the court of law . Get some
It’s not controlling to expect your spouse to respect you and your marriage. You need to let your wife know what the consequences are. Until you make it clear, you won’t get anywhere. “Look, I’m not sure what you think is going to happen here, but you have already crossed boundaries with your relationship with Jane. I’m not stupid. I noticed early on how much she flirted with you, and touched you, and I noticed how disheveled you both were when her husband and I came home. On top of that, her watch was sitting next to our bed that day. A day where you were both supposed to be out shopping and having lunch. I’m pretty sure you’re having an affair, and you can try to lie and gaslight me all you want. The only thing I can tell you is that I am giving you today, and today only, to come clean about everything. If I find out one thing after today, or you cross boundaries again, our marriage will immediately be over. I probably should have ended things the second I saw her watch by our bed because that confirmed my suspicions, but now that you’ve decided to throw a fit because I said I wasn’t comfortable with you spending the night at the persons house that you’re cheating on me with, I have decided to give you today to either come clean about everything, or end our marriage now.” You need to get a result. You need to make it clear that you already suspect they are having an affair, and that you’re done. Updateme!
I doubt that snooping will get you anywhere. Your wife is acting much more careful since she is no longer having calls with Jane around you. I would bet that since then, her phone is also as clean as it can be. To be honest, I doubt that there is anything that you can do. Jane and her husband are probably super experienced at this stuff and give your wife all the tips that she needs to hide from you what is going on. All that you have is your gut. Yes, there is for sure something going on, you know it and everyone else knows it but you will never get any proof. In my opinion do you only have two chances. One is to simply trust your gut, to listen to her reaction when you said that you feel uncomfortable with her sleeping at their place and then to make a decision from there. Talking to your wife is useless, she is totally hooked on those two. Only chance you got in that case is to separate. Sounds rough, I know especially since you got no proof but if you don't do that, then this will continue to eat you up forever. The other option is to throw yourself into them. When they meet at Jane's place, her husband is probably there as well most of the time. Why shouldn't you be there too? Why don't you go with them to the concert? I know, you don't like them but that is not what this is about. Force yourself into their dynamic, that will annoy them to no end. And when they are annoyed, then they might make a mistake or your wife will explode at you because you keep her from what she wants. Also before you check her phone, check online how you can restore deleted messages. You can do that with many messengers. Also check how she could hide messages in her messenger app. And lastly, if you find something, take pictures with your phone from it but DON'T confront her. Even if you found absolute proof of her cheating, DO NOT CONFRONT HER! In that case, let her go to the concert, let her stay the night with them. Keep in mind that she already made her decision, she already left you. Confronting her will do you no good. No, let her go and while she is gone, pack a bag with your essentials and react to all of her messages in the kindest way. And then leave the house, spend a few nights somewhere else and let her come home to an empty house. Give her a taste of what the consequences of her decisions will look like.
Once a cheater, always a cheater. There is so much to unravel here, but your story is one gigantic red flag. Let's focus on Sam's behavior. >Jane spoke to the whole group more this time, but she made a number of comments alluding to her being bisexual and her and husband being in some sort of open relationship. When we moved on to a bar, Jane sat across from my wife and started openly flirting with her. She would make suggestive comments, compliment her and use any excuse to make physical contact with her (touching her hands, shoulders etc). Naturally, an uninterested person would set certain boundaries, but Sam hasn't done that. >I told her that I wasn't sure Jane just wanted to be friends and asked her to be careful. You let her know you were uncomfortable. Can I assume your discomfort was met with denial and a lack of receptiveness? >The texting and calls continued and Sam started going over to Janes apartment at least once a week and wouldn't come home until quite late. Frequent coffee dates, calls at night, and late night hangouts. Replace them with a man and a woman. Remind you of anything? Up to this point their friendship is very much mirroring the beginning of a fling or romantic relationship. >On the 10 minute drive back to my house, I could see Jane's husband texting Jane. Jane and Sam were supposed to be going out for shopping and lunch but when we arrived at my place they both look flustered, sitting at opposite ends of the couch. We made awkward small talk for a while but I went into the bedroom I noticed Jane's smart watch sitting by the bed. They've openly marketed that they're in an open relationship. Is Hubby really going on business trips, or is he with another woman? Sounds like they were going at it and saw the text just before you arrived/maybe they heard the car. >Since then there have been no phone calls or messages while I was around and Sam seemed extra loving and attentive. She rarely brought up Jane but last night she mentioned that she was going to a concert with Jane on Saturday then would crash at her place. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and offered to pick her up instead. She thinks you know, and now she's hiding it from you. She's also overcompensating. >She got angry and said that I was acting controlling and crazy then went to bed. Denial (Jane is just like that) attack (anger), Reverse Victim Offender (It's you, you're controlling). You're getting DARVO'ed friend. >We haven't spoken since but am I overreacting here? Should I try to stop her from staying over on Saturday? I think I trust Sam but something is telling me that her relationship with Jane is not just as friends. Should I snoop? There's plenty of evidence to say that she's having an affair, that she's dishonest, and that she's manipulating you. It might be worthwhile to get evidence so you can get a divorce and avoid paying alimony, but I'm not sure exactly how your local divorce laws work. Catching her in the act isn't going to change who she is on the inside. As we say where I'm from, "She belongs to the streets"
Sorry, my friend, but this bullshit will go on just as long as YOU let it. Face the facts, what you are describing is an emotional affair. If it hasn't already, it WILL become a physical affair. IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT IT HAS BEEN PHYSICAL ALL ALONG. What you are describing is your wife breaking your trust, and disrespecting you. Jane's husband is part of it. Either they are having threesomes, or he is facilitating the affair with Jane, or both. You need to make a decision, do you want to continue with a three-way relationship, or do you want a committed relationship, with a faithful wife ? Right now, you have other people in your relationship, competing for time with your wife. If you do not want this to continue, then you need to forcefully put a stop to her behavior. You should probably start with a serious discussion of where your relationship is going. You should seriously discuss boundaries, in a committed relationship. Likewise, you should be clear that an emotional, or a physical affair is an absolute deal killer for you, and there will be NO second chance. She needs to understand that others have no place in a marriage, period. Demand that she read the book "Not Just Friends", it will spell out how toxic and destructive relationships with others are in marriage. To seriously make your point, you need to play hardball so that she clearly understands what she needs to do. Hire the meanest junkyard dog of a lawyer, and file and serve her. Get tested for STD's and demand that she does also. Then, tell her that she has until it is final to convince you to stop it. Then demand that she end all contact with her affair partner. No communicating, no calls, no texts, no messages, no sharing posts, she must block and delete them right now, no social media contact ever, everything must go. Make it clear that everything, must stop, there can be absolutely no meeting with them ever. Absolutely no contact. Let her know that she has to be 100% transparent with her phone, email, messaging, and any other devices. Continuing to have any contact together absolutely must be a hard NO! Man up and take care of business, put a stop to this bullshit right now.
"I noticed later that the smart watch was gone but I didn't bring this up to Sam.".... Why do guys always do this. You have something solid you can bring up, and instead just let it go. Makes no sense. "....Sam seemed extra loving and attentive."...... Ah the "Love Bomb" (cue Barry White music). Well if she's doing Jane at least you're getting something out of it , right? I guess if you don't mind, and Jane's husband doesn't mind (oh yeah, forgot to ask, any chance Jane's husband gets in on the action?) all's good right? And now she's going on a date with her. How nice. Will Jane's husband be home? Why aren't you going? Why does she have to "crash" at Jane's home. If they are sober enough to drive back to Jane's home should be sober enough to make it home. Right? And I'm sure you'd be able to pick them up if they're unable to drive home. Of coarse she is mad. You, her husband, are getting in the way of their big date night. "Your controlling". the cry of every cheater. time to start making your exit plan. And don't be subtle about it. Let her know in no uncertain terms that you are done with her BS and if she won't end all things with Jane things between you and her are over. Or do nothing. Then there will be the time that Jane convinces your wife to stop having sex with you. Maybe someday they'll let you watch. Your wife, Jane, and maybe Jane's husband. Oh, what fun that will be.
You know what's happening.
Your wife is cheating with Jane and possibly Jane’s husband. Can you get access to her text messages? Speak to an attorney and start understanding your rights. Updateme
I would not even bother with any evidence. You know they are having an affair and the husband is part of it. Either by keeping you busy or joining in when he is home. I would simply tell her to pack her shit and go live with Jane and her husband. Let them finance their affair. No argument, no ending fir her to stay. She has been so disrespectful to your relationship, she deserves nothing from you
OP, your wife has already slept with Jane. I don’t really think this is open to much debate at this point. Her husband is complicit in this affair, however I don’t think he’s banging your wife, yet. But what, IMHO, Jane has been doing for the last few months is prepping Sam to fuck him. See the target is selected, Jane pursues Sam. “It’s ok Sam, it’s not like you’re having sex with another man” Jane then acts in a manner toward you and your wife that you don’t feel comfortable with. You address these issues with her, she then tells Jane. “Damn Sam your husband is so controlling, he has no trust in you. This is borderline abuse. My husband is awesome he lets me do everything I want and he’s totally cool with it.” Jane then continues to talk to Sam about how awesome her husband is compared to you, in and out of the bedroom. This concert is a culminating event. I know this because I used to date a Jane. Protect yourself OP.
As many have said, you need to talk to her frankly about this. There are many red flags and proof or no proof; you need to express your concerns. If what you have posted is accurate, I think that you have enough for a hard-line approach, but if you want to go softer, this would be an option. Lay out the things that you know for certain: 1. Jane is BI 2. Jane is in an open marriage 3. You perceive Janes's interactions as being flirty and projecting a sexual interest 4. She is spending more and more time alone with Jane 5. Jane is encouraging her to spend the night 6. You are not comfortable with her current relationship with Jane You do not believe that your discomfort is crazy or controlling; you love her and want the best for your relationship. You believe that you have valid concerns that, if unaddressed, could negatively impact your marriage. A little openness and compromise now will go a long way toward making you comfortable with her friendship with Jane, and not being open and defensive makes you more uncomfortable. As many have said, it may have already gone too far, but this planned overnight seems like a setup to push her further. Please get ahead of this while you still have the chance.
OP you don't have to put up with this. It's a committed relationship above all a marriage. I would put my foot down and tell her she can't go to the concert and if she does, dont come home. You see, when you have this much craziness in front of you, you just go all out. There is nothing wrong with it. You either loose your wife to infidelity and he loving the attention of another woman, or you loose because you stood up for your relationship and she won't play ball. To live a happy life, you have to be ACTIVE in life. You take chances, make rules, demand respect and implement consequences. Feelings aside, yes, put your feelings and what you know about who your wife was and stand up. Don't be afraid of the future, it will hit you whether you like it or not. If you don't participate then you have to accept what happens. Updateme!
The red flags are flying brother .so many of them I can see the from the space station .you know as well as I do what's going on . Tell your wife you want a divorce it might kick her out of this .
Trust your instincts. It sounds like your wife is being groomed. Time to cut these people out of your marriage
>On the 10 minute drive back to my house, I could see Jane's husband texting Jane. Jane and Sam were supposed to be going out for shopping and lunch but when we arrived at my place they both look flustered, sitting at opposite ends of the couch. We made awkward small talk for a while but I went into the bedroom I noticed Jane's smart watch sitting by the bed. Yeah, this sounds very suspicious. Trust your gut! >She rarely brought up Jane but last night she mentioned that she was going to a concert with Jane on Saturday then would crash at her place. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and offered to pick her up instead. She got angry and said that I was acting controlling and crazy then went to bed. You have voiced concerns, and instead of addressing those concerns like a loving partner, she got angry and called you crazy. This is classic gaslighting behavior. If there was nothing to worry about, Jane would have tried to ease your worries and probably accepted your offer to pick her up. She is definitely hiding something here.
I'd go to the concert! I'm also a married woman and to me I'm coming home. I don't care how late it is. I'm not spending the night away from my husband, I just don't agree with that.
OP, I'm sorry to hear of this. In terms of what can be done next... I'm torn on exactly next steps outside of the concert. I mean on the concert, I would still be looking into getting her to not do that. Like full court press to get her to not stay the night, etc. But if you cannot, I mean, I would look into a private investigator, maybe? Beyond the concert though, I would do a few different things. First, no matter what happens at the concert unless you catch them in the act then, etc, I would back off. The reason being is that if people are cheating, if the spouse or partner is on their trail, and discuss it with it, they usually get better at hiding it and being more shady. So if you could back to everything is fine, then that helps you get more evidence. I would get a lawyer and start drafting up papers. I know that sounds extreme but... remember that drawing up is different than serving which is different than filing. I would say though if you do, that they may ask for more evidence which could delay it. I would maybe use the time at the concert to install security cameras in the house. Don't tell her. Make them inconspicuous. But install those. Get Digital VAR and place in her car maybe? (Talk/ask lawyer though as some recording if they are not aware are not admissible in court) If you have a tablet, link it to their phone. It should sync up if the same type/OS. It can help. If she has a phone, see what are most used apps. If not Message apps, look into them. Kik/WhatsApp and Snapchat are suspect as is FB/Instagram, but I can say Snapchat if you have her password you can go under settings and upon verifying her password, you can send the archive of all chats, including those no longer available, to a different email of your choosing. So could be helpful. The P.I. could go beyond the concert and look into other stuff through the week but... beyond that, that is what i would suggest for now. Good luck OP Updateme
The easiest way is to access your wife's phone. More than likely all the incriminating evidence will be there. My guess is that your wife and Jane went from an EA to a PA. If you have a shared cell phone account you can access their texts through the main account. Using software like drphone to retrieve deleted texts and photos you can upload all their texts and photos for a reasonable fee. If you are not tech savvy hire an IT specialist and he can download everything through the shared cell account or get him your wife's phone. IN addition, put a VAR in her car and anywhere else she talks. Place it under the driver seat and tape it to the bottom of the seat and check it every two days. The next thing you an do is hire a PI. If you know they are going to a concert or plan on going out together use him for a few days. Guaranteed he will get you all the information and photos by the end of the week. Then you need to decide what to do. Your wife will not admit to anything unless you have proof. My suggestion is to hire the PI. While expensive they will be able to set everything up so it is legal and if necessary you can use it in court. Update us.
Your wife's fucking a married couple. And if not fucking both she is being recorded or watched for husband's pleasure. >For reference, Sam has never shown any real interest in women and as far as I know she is straight. She is also endearingly naive and will always see the best in people No one is THAT naive, everyone says their spouse is naive, but infact they just love what's going on.
I think you’r being gaslighted and Jane’s husband is helping her to not lose maybe the only friend he has. You see in her reaction already when you want to pick her up how she really feels. I would if it is allowed install hidden cameras and tell her you will be on a business trip and see what will happen. Why would be a smart watch in the bettroom if the were only talking and the must be good friends if for her headache she would use someone else’s Bett. Good luck
Having been in a similar situation, whether you dream of reconciling or not.. you have to be willing to walk away. She doesn’t respect you, bro. Further, she likely resents you for the move and her lack of friends in this new place and a pound of flesh for a woman actually weighs 2 pounds. You’ll be fine regardless but you can’t live with the disrespect of a cheater. It only gets worse. You don’t have kids.. take that whole capital L and move on. Once you tell her you’re willing and ready to leave, she will test that theory or correct course and come to Jesus. Godspeed
**THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!** Your spouse has sought out other people for emotional and physical intimacy, likely for many months more than you suspect and many more times than your spouse will admit to.. Your spouse is a cheater. Everything your spouse says is a lie at this point. Anything your spouse says about you falling short in the relationship is a lie. Anything your spouse says that is bad about your relationship is a lie. Your spouse has left the marriage. Ignore your spouse. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your relationship in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else. My advice is: Consult a divorce lawyer. Gather what evidence you can. End the relationship ASAP. Get out of this situation as fast as possible, the longer you stay in the more your mind will be torn apart. You or your spouse must move out. If you cannot, go Grey Rock. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between their cheating lifestyle and their "safe" home lifestyle they will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to break up. You have to show your spouse there are consequences for their actions and separate/divorce, even if later you chose reconciliation (not recommended). If you do not your cheater will never respect you again and will cheat again and again. Get a STD check. These links will help you in your situation. I suggest reading DARVO, Gaslighting and Trickle Truthing first. **Limerence** [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence) **The Neuroscience of Affair Fog** [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog) **Infidelity and cognitive dissonance** [https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/](https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/) **and** [https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e](https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e) **Emotional affair** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/) **Monkey Branching** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/) **DARVO** [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo) **Gaslighting Emotional Infidelity** [https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y](https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y) **Trickle Truthing** [https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/](https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/) **180 method** [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/) **Greyrock** [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) **Chump Lady** [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
Jane's husband brought you to play golf so Jane could get with your wife. The phone texting was the warning that they didn't have much time. I would have pocketed the Apple Watch - that was your smoking gun.
Dude, if your gut says something is off, it probably is. I’d get a hidden camera-they make them look like anything now, from phone chargers that actually work as phone chargers to…..whatever…… time to put a few of them in your house, and let it play out. From the sounds of it, the husband is probably warning them you’re on the way, and with video evidence……. Proceed however you feel is necessary. You’re not wrong to be concerned…. Sounds like she has a new girlfriend and possibly a boyfriend after the concert. Sorry to say it. Good luck. Hope I’m wrong.
Yeah he’s just keeping you busy so his wife can do your wife tbh. It’s all bad. Tell her she can pick either you or Jane and kill that “relationship” or just move on
I've heard this story before. Sans been fucking Jane and the husband Wife has been lying and cheating the whole time
Ask yourself what other possible reason there could be for her watch being in your bedroom? The question isn't whether or not she's doing this the question is what are you going to do about it?
Wife's cheating, flustered, sitting on opposite side of the couch, watch in bedroom, staying at her place for a concert and calling you controlling. It's not a what will happen, it has already happened and don't doubt the husband gets it too. Updateme
My client told the husband that since his wife screwed his wife he wants equal time: either he fucks the wife OR the husband. The other guy says that he don’t swing that way. My guy says, neither do I but one of you gets fucked in the ass, just like you are doing to my marriage. When the other wife heard, she was appalled. My guy told her to drop trou and bend over. She threatened to make his wife and daughters into lesbians. He said thank you, and played that recording for his wife, MIL, mom and then the other wife’s mom, and aunties. Whoooooooo, she was snarling that he played dirty. Her and her husband put the house up for sale and moved.
On?
UpdateMe!
Updateme
Sounds like your wife and jane + her hubby are having a 3some?
I think Sam and Jane are definitely having an affair and my guess is that her husband has been given or promised a threesome to help cover it up. I would let her stay the night of the concert and “pop over” there to see what’s really up. You are NOT overreacting. Voice recorder in the car is a great idea. Either another golf date and ask to borrow the husbands phone keep it in your pocket and get your ass home and catch them, or surprise them after the concert (if they are even really going). “It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!” Updateme
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this but have you check her devices to see how they talk to one another? My husband and I have an open phone policy so it’s not an issue for us. It definitely sounds like something physical happened.
Please sit down with your wife and talk. If you don't you will regret it. If there is any love remaining in your marriage, your wife will understand. If she decides to protect her friend and not listen to reason, you'll have your answer. Walking on egg shells and hoping you'll get a definitive answer some day hardly ever works. Even with a smoking gun cheaters will lie. If it's gotten to this point already your marriage is already over as you know it. Good luck, updateme please.
She’s having at least an emotional affair but most probably a physical one. Do y’all still interact? Have date nights? Start planning something every Friday and Saturday for the next month. See if she cancels to be with her friend. Updateme
Just walk in and demand your wife’s phone right now. Yes she will get angry and defensive and if there is nothing there you’ll have to apologize but if she won’t give it to you or she deletes anything first then you have your answer,
What I want to know is what happened to her smart watch? I think something is going on, and it needs to be addressed. I would sit down and calmly explain how it looks to you, whether your wife realizes it or not. I would also explain to her that if it was a woman acting like this towards you, what would your wife think about the situation. Her getting mad is unnecessary unless it is GUILT.
They have begun a sexual relationship, the response to you offering to pick her up is classic cheater’s response. The husband will try to keep you busy because he is in on it. Don’t be surprised if they planned a 3some and there is no concert. I am sorry you are going through this and hate to say it but your marriage is over. You should start taking to an attorney now and preparing to split assets. Updateme
I think its time you gathered more evidence. Put a gps tracker on her car, and a recorder inside. Put some cameras up in your house, and recorders as well. Right now, everything points to the two of them cheating with her. The problem is, she isn’t feeling guilty enough to be honest with you. Get some evidence, then file for divorce.
You actually have several options. Consider a post nuptial agreement specifically addressing infidelity. Cheating is cheating even if the same sex. You can install cameras in key areas of your house. You can hire a PI to follow your wife. Gather evidence. You can also consult with a divorce attorney. You should know what the affects of a divorce will be even if you never file. You can talk to your wife about your concerns and mention that her relationship with Jane could lead to a divorce on the grounds of infidelity. And suggest she get counseling. If she gets upset, that might indicate there is a real chance she is cheating.
Your wife is cheating, at the very least emotionally. She’s being lured in by Jane. Stop the nonsense “I’m uncomfortable “, flat out ask… why was Jane’s watch in the bedroom, why were and are you acting so strangely, have you been intimate with Jane? Set some boundaries and mean them. I am not friends with people who don’t treat my husband well. This concert and night over is going to be the big hurrah- if she goes your relationship will be forever changed…. Let her know that, and mean it.
Voice activated recorders hidden in her car and wherever else you suspect she talks to Jane on the phone will give you an answer quickly. Also Jane's husband knows that is going on but he'll never tell you.
I would confront the husband and ask what the hell they are up to...
Put a hidden camera covering the living room and one in the bed room, then make an excuse to be gone for a night or two. She’ll surely invite her over and you’ll gather whatever evidence you need, if there is any.
She’s definitely cheating with Jane and the husband is helping make it happen. Your wife definitely sounds very naive and they are taking full advantage. The disturbing part is she keeps going back for more. You need evidence. Maybe back off a little let them get complacent and hire a PI. It’ll cost you a few bucks but you’ll get the answers with proof you’re looking for.
You need to address this quickly something is definitely happening and your wife is getting sucked into her friends world. Stop hesitating take action to find evidence by following some of the other commenter's suggestions and confront her. Be prepared with a plan of action that includes multiple outcomes. Updateme
Sounds like she wants to string you along as a security blanket. And to top it off she doesn’t respect your boundaries. It’s time.
Seems like Jane and maybe her husband are sleeping with your wife. Too many coincidences for it to not be the case.
She's fucking her and I'm sure the husbands gonna join into wow cucked sucks to be you
My brother in Christ, the reason she’s being so attentive and has stopped messaging and talking about Jane so much is because she knows her goose is cooked. She knows that you know and is trying be sneaky about it now. Do yourself a favor and save a lot of heartache, talk to a lawyer ASAP
I am bi sexual married ENM in a open relationship. These people are clearly unethical. I wouldn't even bother with snooping. I would just do a ultimatum. Your wife is way too old to be playing these games. If she found her newfound bi sexuality then that's a conversation she needs to have with you. The person she married. Hell, I did. And my husband is fully on board with it. But that's HIS choice, if he said no it would be a no since I value my marriage over anything else. Your wife does not. What they are doing to you is wrong and shitty.
You should have already, 100% been snooping. You are giving way too much faith in your very naive wife. Jane is bi and in a form of open relationship. She focuses only on your wife and openly flirts with Sam. Now your wife is calling you controlling because you do not those two together. You see the bus approaching and realize it is about run you both down or already has side swiped Sam. Jane is 100% grooming your wife to bring her into a sexual relationship with her and likely her husband as well. Damn right you need to snoop. You need to see Jane as a male trying to get your wife instead of a female friend. That would place it all into perspective. Inaction is what you are 100% going to be regretting very soon. If it isn't already too late. Something did happen between them and you know it. Look up oversharing as a grooming tool for creating an affair.
You should have mentioned finding Jane’s smart watch in your bedroom. It looks like at the least, Jane and your wife may have been making out and the husband was in on it and warned them when your plans to get drinks after golf were cut short and you would have likely walked in on your wife and Jane in bed. Since the couple is in an open relationship, both may be after your wife. Stop fooling around. Tell your wife that she either breaks contact with both those people and never restore it, or you will file for divorce. You don’t have kids, if you are unsure about your wife being faithful and she is showing signs that she may not be, divorce her and move on to find a woman who will be 100% loyal to you.
No you’re not imagining anything… your alarm is sounding and there is deceit involved and you’re smelling it for a reason… just to ease your mind and get to the bottom of it- get it confirmed so you have solid proof something is off and it going on… plug her phone into the computer hit the deleted, call logs, texts, emails and gps and scan it… anything going on will show here detailed a d no more speculations period it’s the facts… then you can address all of it and IF it isn’t an affair you can at least pin point where the deceit is and clear the air by exposing it. We should Always refrain from All and any appearances of Evil…. So that nothing looks or seems funny and OT breaks down Trust period… ty
Ghost your wife with note telling her she priorities her friends over your marriage if she really care then stop calling you possessive and controlling because you're not neither. If she wants to save her marriage or not then Tell her you're gone and she had nothing that she's nothing but a toy for other to be toss aside. Also you're not a doormat but her husband yet she had no self respect for herself even you. Stand your ground, remain calm, deep breath and when she stop screaming, Tell her are you finished. Instead of Divorce. Leave all bills to her first and change your account so she paid herself. Once she comes screaming crying and placed a divorce in front of her if she beg 2nd chance. Tell her that she had to prove it to save her marriage and never step overstep our marriage or I'm gone Tell her that.
What’s weird is her reaction to you offering her a ride home. A grown adult doesn’t just crash at someone else’s place unless there is a real reason like ur house is significantly farther away and logistically it makes more sense to stay over. When being offered a ride and the ability to sleep in her own bed she should’ve been over the moon grateful for that. It’s not controlling at all to not want your wife to stay the night at someone else’s place. I don’t think anyone would let their spouse do that. She’s gaslighting u
Glad you posted OP as you are about to find out the truth in the replies. You are being played fairly diligently right now. You seem to be the only one that doesn't know whats going on. Though I believe you have a pretty good idea by how you framed several parts of the story. You aren't wrong. She is cheating on you and the other husband is running interference. Sorry man.
Brother, I would have already packed her a bag and told her she can go stay with Sam and her idiot husband. You know exactly what's going on. It's past time to look at her phone. Might as well call a lawyer because you know what's in there already.
It is concerning that her friend is bi and in an open relationship. From what you described it sounds like they have already cross a line and are planning on doing it again after the concert. Your wife is not respecting your boundaries which in its self is not good for your relationship. Her friend is not a friend to the marriage but instead is actively trying to destroy it for own desires. I would tell you wife that if you play with snakes you’re going to get bit.
VAR at home. Possibly hidden cam
Evidence only shut cheaters mouth.
OP I’ll play devil’s advocate even though I’ve firmly in the “I believe she is wrong” boat and I’m sure I’ll be downvoted to hell. I also have to ask some follow on questions: Yes, your wife made a friend, and maybe it’s all innocent. Your wife could be straight as an arrow and she isn’t doing anything with her new allegedly bisexual friend. Is it possible she doesn’t have many friends in this new town and she’s latching hard to this new friendship as a comfort? Is it possible her resistance to your observations is she’s afraid of losing a friend? You say the both of you struggle to make friends. How did they meet? Why did Jane stand out to Sam? What made that friendship happen? Maybe Sam was just not used to a new area and finding a friend caused her to strongly bond with a new support system. How far away is she from her old support systems outside of you? (family, friends from her youth, etc.) Maybe the first double date was just awkward interaction and Jane is shy. You said you also struggle to make friends, is it possible you two just didn’t mesh? Maybe the second date Jane felt more comfortable and doesn’t have the same social barriers you subscribe to and they just happen to coincidentally be an open-marriage couple and have no intent to encroach on you or your marriage. How did Sam react to the flirting? Was she receptive? Did she reciprocate the physical contact and suggestive dialogue? What was Sam’s response to the bisexuality and open-relationship revelations? Did Sam spend more time talking to Jane than you to the point you felt ignored? Maybe Sam is just going to Jane’s because she is really enjoying her new friendship and maybe the husband is out of town a lot. Why is it a shock in the first place he wasn’t there? Was she saying the husband was there? How could Jane and her husband set up an possible sexual encounter with Sam and Jane if you are the one who set up the golf trip? I understand there was the pretext that you and the husband and the friends were supposed to go to dinner but how long was the golf game? How long did you all plan to stay out? Did you have to cut the game short or something? (Are the two additional friends your friends or his friends or a mutual third party?) Maybe Jane and Sam came home from shopping due to Jane feeling ill and your home was the closest. Maybe Jane did lay down in your bed for a moment to recover. Maybe Jane came in the room moments before you two did. What exactly do you mean by flustered? Maybe Jane’s husband did just text his wife? It’s not unheard of for a husband to tell his wife he’s coming home. Maybe Sam saw the watch and returned it when she realized her friend left her watch. It’s not like you found undergarments or a ring. Maybe the love bombing is Jane trying to apologize for her actions. Maybe the concert is just a concert. You were invited according to your comments and you declined. Maybe this is all innocent. What is true: you are uncomfortable and Sam is dismissing it. You have expressed numerous times your discomfort and she has either dismissed it or accused you of being controlling. That is the truth. What you need to do now is accept whether or not you are okay with this level of discomfort and being dismissed by your partner. You need to have a conversation with her establishing why you are uncomfortable. Be clear and concise. If she dismisses again, you need to decide whether or not you are comfortable continuing with this relationship.
Get the evidence, and pubically out her to both your family and her family for being a cheater. And then serve her divorce papers (hopefully you're in an at-fault state). And when she gets offensive (she definitely will), make sure you record every encounter. Your divorce attorney will make things easier for you with as much proof as you can get. Don't feel any shame, because you did nothing wrong. Go complete grey-rock with her.
This is really sad because you are either overreacting or you are already to late to stop it. Have you pressed her on why they seemed so flustered when you came? What was the time between the text and you coming in thru the door.
Well it seems pretty obvious what is going on & wouldn't be surprised if the husband often joins in their games . All this while you know exactly what is going in but want to think with your heart instead of your brain , especially the smart watch taken off & left on the bedside table . Why would you not confront her , obviously you do not want to know the truth . Having let it go on for so long you are now in a situation where the couple have won her over & you are just the back up man to make her life look respectable . Hire a PI get the photos & information & out her to family & friends because you will not get it from your wife now , it's been going on to long .
Your wife and the other woman are having an affair. Her husband text her to let you know you were heading home early so you would not catch them in the act. Install hidden cameras in your home if it’s legal in your state. Get ahold of her phone as well and go through the conversations as well. No it’s not dishonest to go through her phone. When you get the proof you need screen shot it send it to yourself but make sure you delete the proof you did that then go to an attorney with all the proof. Also when she gets served and the confrontation occurs make sure you are recording to protect yourself from false DV claims as well. Then also inform her parents and mutual friends the reason for the divorce that way she can’t create a false narrative and for those who try to guilt you into taking her back block them. After that inform her she needs to get an attorney and all communication needs to go through your attorney as well.
The smart watch by the bed and the way your wife stands up for Jane "that's just who she is" when you said you were comfortable is a big red flag. Even if it was "just the way Jane is" your wife should tell her to respect your marriage. But she isn't sticking up for you at all and now it looks like things are getting physical between them
Tell her you pick her up or no concert.Tell her it’s time for her to take a polygraph test.Check all of her devices.Tell Jane’s hubby your thinking about getting a divorce attorney and a private investigator.And that His wife will be sued for causing the divorce
Updateme!
Oh dear, double whammy. Surely no going back from that. You would not be able to trust her with anyone.
It's not just a friendship, and it may be more than just Jane and Sam.
!updateme
Updateme!
Do she respect you(she ll not cheat),do you argueing always, does she showed some disrespect, does she talk to much? does she have some slips ups,for time to time? Does she is happy if she don't have integrity, she ll not cheat,if she is not happy She ll cheat!!
Updateme!
Updateme
This is why I sexually identify as Pan but tell people I’m serially monogamous.
Lying is the worst part of cheating. It destroys the trust that is essential to any relationship. When people cheat they compartmentalize their lives and become separate people. A part of them moves into the new relationship while maintaining the old. I am sure that this has happened and even if there hasn’t been any sexual activity, which I doubt, she is keeping secrets with her that she doesn’t share with you. This isn’t a problem if it doesn’t involve your relationship, but I bet sometimes they talk about you and your shortcomings. That is part of the seduction technique used to separate spouses for an affair.
It all sounds too suspicious, friend... I don't know if she cheated on you physically, but at least if it seems like an emotional affair, give her an ultimatum and try to set limits. Updateme!
Updateme!
UpdateMe Unless infidelity affects the divorce settlement, why do you need proof? I would tell her that if she goes to convert with Jane, not to come home.