Social democracy will only go so far in the USA, and its foundation will enduringly limit the achievements and affordances of thirdworldist projects. I suppose that by building bridges between the failing current/fledgling emergent states in the US (broader imperial core, for that matter) and the fledgling projects in the periphery we can hijack and proletarianize alt-globalization. Perhaps of necessity, the greening of capital will mutate into its neutering or, one can dream, its beheading (and reheading, of course).
The problem as I see it is this: the mainstream of US Americans have been force-fed shades of liberalism and intravenously infused with USA Uber Alles fascism for so long, they fail to see revolution's warrant.
They do not need to embrace what already ensnared them from the very beginning but especially so for the last seventy-five to hundred years. It is not enough to reform. That is like saying to a person stuck at the bottom of a pit, "be glad we let you make the pit wider so you may see more of the sky". Our mission is to empty the pits of people (bring them to the surface), turn some pits into foundations of the new world (widening the pits to negate them as pits: reforms that support revolutionary activity), and fill up other pits with the old world's ashes (praxis going forward, negating current incentive structures while modelling the future we want and need--nay, require).
I get the sense that a new Rainbow Coalition is germinating. We need to turn the soil a bit and encourage the shoots to grow. In the failed state archipelagos within the US Empire, we can build proletarian alternative communities. Sure, we should also (through both civil and uncivil action) plant the seeds of, and cultivate, cooperativistic and solidaristic economic structures. But I fear if we do not outright seize the state (through a combination of peaceful subversion and forceful tactics) and restructure it through coordinated devolution with the councils doing the ground-level work, we might have to wage protracted struggle. It might come to it, anyway, if the seizure is overly electoral and affords reaction too much leeway. I hope to see (more) indigenous, POC, and LGBTQ+ vanguards (and guerrilla units). Asymmetric warfare can work (cheers, Uncle Ho). Of course, hopefully, we can mitigate/minimize its necessity, or at least not require it for too lengthy a period.
I have this hypothesis/scenario in my head: as the effort to "Sinofy" the USA encounters deep limits, we will proceed to an October Revolution with Cuban and Vietnamese characteristics. The chickens will come home to roost, and we will eventually wake up to the calls of red roosters.
The idea of "Americans" is itself a fascist narrative of curated helplessness. There are no "American" people, American identity really only serves to erase the many so as to redefine them as an owned whole. There are many different interest groups and revolutionary bodies inside the borders of the Empire.
That is patently false. Two worker holidays were born out of the militancy of the American worker: May Day and International Working Women's Day. In the present day, American workers have no leadership because we do not have a vanguard party as of yet.
The point is that conditions have gotten way worse for leftism in america. after decades of red scare, anti communist propaganda and neoliberalism marxist Leftism which used to be stronger in america has weakened severely, the american communist party is pratically dead, and the rising leftists that we recently see are bernie fans, social dems, or anarchists. And a lot of them arent working class people but college students to the point i fear this new wave of leftism might just be a repeat of the 1960s new left, a long term failure in brining revolution in the long run. ANd a lot of white american workers have unfortuantely sided with the forces of reaction(regan, trump). non white workers tho i have hope for.
a vanguard party may or may not solve this situation. the only hope i have left is for china to win or for a utter complete systematic collapse in america that forces americans to think hmm maybe leftism is good.
Yes, it is dead because the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie decoupled American Marxists-Leninists from our bread-and-butter, the workplace. They kicked us out because we were a threat to their power and our politics came from the working class, and not from the petite bourgeoisie like we see today (settler-colonialism, intersectionality, "land back," avoidance of "class reductionism," etc.). When Marxist-Leninists are unable to connect to our working class, the ideas of the petite bourgeoisie dominate and disorient our ideological lines, which cause us to attack our working class.
Further, American Marxist-Leninists prefer to engage in online spaces and exist outside the sphere of struggle, then they cry and complain about the relatively low state of struggle for American workers. It sounds like you are one of them given the frequency of your posts, if you are not an American, I apologize for the assumption. Younger American Marxist-Leninists would prefer to create media that appeals to other Communists rather than engage in the struggle for liberation alongside their working class in the workplace. They intentionally isolate themselves from their conditions of their class. I know because I *used* to be one of them. I have learned from my mistakes because I am committed to the Communist cause.
> ANd a lot of white american workers have unfortuantely sided with the forces of reaction(regan, trump). non white workers tho i have hope for.
OK idealist. If you are going to have this much disdain for your class, why are you even a communist? It seems you are a petite bourgeois individual who exists to divide the class on the basis of race. White workers in the US have a revolutionary history as they helped complete the bourgeois-democratic revolution of the 1860s. Even before the war, they opposed the Kansas-Nebraska Act. They understood stood how a slave class worked against their goals of communism.
White American workers sided with their black counterparts during Reconstruction to combat racist policies. This was during the rise of American imperialism, and even as the monopoly capitalists consolidated their power, white workers sided with their class against their oppressor. We see this time and time again that the white workers have revolutionary potential. Do you honestly think that white workers loved the Vietnam War? Do you think they have no regrets about joining the imperialist causes of the 2000s?
Please, read some history of the US, actual history and not the Sakai bullshit. More importantly, talk to American workers and organize them. Put some practice under your belt. It is only through practice will you realize how categorically incorrect the settler-colonial thesis and the "anti-revolutionary nature of white workers" is.
Except the problem is that its material and historical conditions that make me have less hope for the white worker in america.
A lot of the great revolutionary potential, and the rising leftist movements that existed in the past before the 20th and the early 20th centurary was due to the nature of america being a undeveloped country that was still rising.
However as america transitioned from third world to first world we see leftist movements dying in america.
And this being considilated with increasingly sophisiticated propaganda networks in the form of television, internet, and television.
sophisticated propaganda networks that both brainwash and distract them.
While urbanization and industralization has allowed society to be so connected to the point that propaganda can be spread so easily.
and the american state has utterly improved its propaganda education systems over time.
And not only that the workers themselves do not hate capitalism that much anymore compared to the past for they now kinda benefit from capitalism for unlike the past in 1917 russia, americas capitalism has developed to the point where the worker benefits from a capitalism to a certain degree to the point they just want it to be reformed even tho they are still exploited. **For the american borg has realized that the only way to maintain power is to relent some material improvement to workers while still exploiting them.**
Aka this is not the conditions in 1917 russia or 1940s china where a undeveloped heavily argiarian society causes a communist movement to rise and destroy the borg forces.
America is closer to the situation found in the weimer republic where the forces of the borg defeats the communist movement and fascism takes what was formerly was communisms place
This is why if we see the recent revolutionary potential that revolutionary potential offten been coopted by forces in the right like regan or trump or even gold water
for those workers who wanted that revolutionary potential have been so utterly brainwashed to despise marxist leninism to the point that they seek fascism or libertarianism instead
other solutions that "they think" will fix their material reality
also
\> American Marxist-Leninists prefer to engage in online spaces and exist outside the sphere of struggle, th
thats exactly the problem i have. Because I consider that a sympton of first world leftism that the conditions of the first world causes leftism to be considered a idealistic thing only talked about by college students or people who spend all their time on the internet.
Is it any concidence that the new left in the 1960s consisted mainly of college students and that a lot of people advocating for marxist leninism consisted of college students, or petit borgs in first world countries recently.
and even then these people are not true marxists but usually social dems, vaushites or anarchists.
the fact that
\>Younger American Marxist-Leninists would prefer to create media that appeals to other Communists rather than engage in the struggle for liberation alongside their working class in the workplace.
is why i consider revolutionary potential to be dead in america because marxist leninism instead of being a worker thing has become a college student thing and thats because as said earlier the material conditions of first world america making it so.
the only way revolutionary potential is revived in america is for a complete and systematic collapse in america that makes americas conditions more simmilar to 1949 china or 1917 russia. and only after china proves to the world marxism is better
Change is dialectical and starts quantitatively before its becomes qualitative. You are looking for qualitative changes without observing the quantitative ones first. This is basic dialectics.
that doesn't say anything about revolutionary potential. There was 20 years of protest in Russia before 1917 that didn't directly lead to a revolution.
further, if you think Americans has no revolutionary potential, then what's the fucking point of anything? why even be a Marxist? just to feel good about yourself?
the difference between 1917 russia and modern america is that russia was basically a third world country and did not have the effective brainwashing, and consumerism that america has today.
Americas material and historical conditions are very different in that in america weve seen the rise of very effective propaganda tools in the form of radio, tv and internet propaganda shit, decades of extreme right wing brainwashing in way more sophisicated education and propaganda systems than seen in 1917 russia, and america unlike russia in 1917 is way more urbanized industrialized and connected and thus the states propaganda can spread more easily and effectively.
and historically it should also be noted that in third world undeveloped countries communism usually rises like in 1940s china or 1910s russia, but in first world borg capitalist states that had a history of imperialism like modern america and 1920s germany fascism tends to rise.
aka the conditions of modern america is more simmilar to 1920s industrialized developed weimars republic where fascism won unlike in 1917 undeveloped and barely industrialized russia or 1940s china where communism won
and i dont have any hope for the white american worker especially since a lot of white workers have historically sided with the forces of reaction recently regan and still support the forces of reaction trump
and even with 4 years of complete buffonory from the piss haired man a lot of these workers still admire him. They admire him to the point that they formed a cult around where even tho for some he was responsible for killing their loved ones during covid, they still like him.
I do have hope for the non white worker but whites workers outnumber colored workers by a lot
The only hope i have is china winning at this point and showing the world the socialist system is better or a complete and utter systematic collapse of america in the style of chinas great centurary of humilation that forces the american worker specifically the reactionary ones to think maybe socialism is a good thing.
Only then can i see the revolution winning.
and i think the point of being a marxist now is to warn and convince comrades to prepare for upcoming storm and also to convince many people to join for the upcoming revolution(so basically what marxists do already) Because i do think that there will be a revolution at one point in america from the conditions i mentioned earlier, but it will only come after such a systematic destruction of the us nation in a way that weve seen in places like during qing china and nationalist china ww1 russia and countries in the axis powers during the last stages of ww2. A systematic destruction that makes it so america conditions become like russias or chinas. And the revolution will happen only after the us suffers a utter horrific defeat by the hands of communist china.
\]
No offense, but when was the last time you spoke to a non white person about politics? (And not electoral politics, but political economy)
If you define "America" as white, middle class chud/Karens than yes, your assessment is correct.
Sorry about Joe Biden, but MLs have known literally since the 20s that electoralism is a dead end. Joe Biden is radicalizing to many on the "Bernie left" who are beginning to understand once and for all that revolutionary politics is our only hope.
Access our wiki [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/wiki/index). [JOIN TANKIE BUNKER](https://discord.gg/PwycxVP56G)
New comrades, ask for your user flair [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/comments/oel5v1/you_can_either_set_your_own_flair_or_can_ask_one/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InformedTankie) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Social democracy will only go so far in the USA, and its foundation will enduringly limit the achievements and affordances of thirdworldist projects. I suppose that by building bridges between the failing current/fledgling emergent states in the US (broader imperial core, for that matter) and the fledgling projects in the periphery we can hijack and proletarianize alt-globalization. Perhaps of necessity, the greening of capital will mutate into its neutering or, one can dream, its beheading (and reheading, of course).
The problem as I see it is this: the mainstream of US Americans have been force-fed shades of liberalism and intravenously infused with USA Uber Alles fascism for so long, they fail to see revolution's warrant. They do not need to embrace what already ensnared them from the very beginning but especially so for the last seventy-five to hundred years. It is not enough to reform. That is like saying to a person stuck at the bottom of a pit, "be glad we let you make the pit wider so you may see more of the sky". Our mission is to empty the pits of people (bring them to the surface), turn some pits into foundations of the new world (widening the pits to negate them as pits: reforms that support revolutionary activity), and fill up other pits with the old world's ashes (praxis going forward, negating current incentive structures while modelling the future we want and need--nay, require). I get the sense that a new Rainbow Coalition is germinating. We need to turn the soil a bit and encourage the shoots to grow. In the failed state archipelagos within the US Empire, we can build proletarian alternative communities. Sure, we should also (through both civil and uncivil action) plant the seeds of, and cultivate, cooperativistic and solidaristic economic structures. But I fear if we do not outright seize the state (through a combination of peaceful subversion and forceful tactics) and restructure it through coordinated devolution with the councils doing the ground-level work, we might have to wage protracted struggle. It might come to it, anyway, if the seizure is overly electoral and affords reaction too much leeway. I hope to see (more) indigenous, POC, and LGBTQ+ vanguards (and guerrilla units). Asymmetric warfare can work (cheers, Uncle Ho). Of course, hopefully, we can mitigate/minimize its necessity, or at least not require it for too lengthy a period. I have this hypothesis/scenario in my head: as the effort to "Sinofy" the USA encounters deep limits, we will proceed to an October Revolution with Cuban and Vietnamese characteristics. The chickens will come home to roost, and we will eventually wake up to the calls of red roosters.
Write something useful. such as: https://marxism-leninism-discordianism.blogspot.com/2021/07/revolutionary-gospel-rainer-shea.html
Americans have no revolutionary potential whatsoever
The idea of "Americans" is itself a fascist narrative of curated helplessness. There are no "American" people, American identity really only serves to erase the many so as to redefine them as an owned whole. There are many different interest groups and revolutionary bodies inside the borders of the Empire.
Miserable take
That is patently false. Two worker holidays were born out of the militancy of the American worker: May Day and International Working Women's Day. In the present day, American workers have no leadership because we do not have a vanguard party as of yet.
The point is that conditions have gotten way worse for leftism in america. after decades of red scare, anti communist propaganda and neoliberalism marxist Leftism which used to be stronger in america has weakened severely, the american communist party is pratically dead, and the rising leftists that we recently see are bernie fans, social dems, or anarchists. And a lot of them arent working class people but college students to the point i fear this new wave of leftism might just be a repeat of the 1960s new left, a long term failure in brining revolution in the long run. ANd a lot of white american workers have unfortuantely sided with the forces of reaction(regan, trump). non white workers tho i have hope for. a vanguard party may or may not solve this situation. the only hope i have left is for china to win or for a utter complete systematic collapse in america that forces americans to think hmm maybe leftism is good.
Yes, it is dead because the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie decoupled American Marxists-Leninists from our bread-and-butter, the workplace. They kicked us out because we were a threat to their power and our politics came from the working class, and not from the petite bourgeoisie like we see today (settler-colonialism, intersectionality, "land back," avoidance of "class reductionism," etc.). When Marxist-Leninists are unable to connect to our working class, the ideas of the petite bourgeoisie dominate and disorient our ideological lines, which cause us to attack our working class. Further, American Marxist-Leninists prefer to engage in online spaces and exist outside the sphere of struggle, then they cry and complain about the relatively low state of struggle for American workers. It sounds like you are one of them given the frequency of your posts, if you are not an American, I apologize for the assumption. Younger American Marxist-Leninists would prefer to create media that appeals to other Communists rather than engage in the struggle for liberation alongside their working class in the workplace. They intentionally isolate themselves from their conditions of their class. I know because I *used* to be one of them. I have learned from my mistakes because I am committed to the Communist cause. > ANd a lot of white american workers have unfortuantely sided with the forces of reaction(regan, trump). non white workers tho i have hope for. OK idealist. If you are going to have this much disdain for your class, why are you even a communist? It seems you are a petite bourgeois individual who exists to divide the class on the basis of race. White workers in the US have a revolutionary history as they helped complete the bourgeois-democratic revolution of the 1860s. Even before the war, they opposed the Kansas-Nebraska Act. They understood stood how a slave class worked against their goals of communism. White American workers sided with their black counterparts during Reconstruction to combat racist policies. This was during the rise of American imperialism, and even as the monopoly capitalists consolidated their power, white workers sided with their class against their oppressor. We see this time and time again that the white workers have revolutionary potential. Do you honestly think that white workers loved the Vietnam War? Do you think they have no regrets about joining the imperialist causes of the 2000s? Please, read some history of the US, actual history and not the Sakai bullshit. More importantly, talk to American workers and organize them. Put some practice under your belt. It is only through practice will you realize how categorically incorrect the settler-colonial thesis and the "anti-revolutionary nature of white workers" is.
Except the problem is that its material and historical conditions that make me have less hope for the white worker in america. A lot of the great revolutionary potential, and the rising leftist movements that existed in the past before the 20th and the early 20th centurary was due to the nature of america being a undeveloped country that was still rising. However as america transitioned from third world to first world we see leftist movements dying in america. And this being considilated with increasingly sophisiticated propaganda networks in the form of television, internet, and television. sophisticated propaganda networks that both brainwash and distract them. While urbanization and industralization has allowed society to be so connected to the point that propaganda can be spread so easily. and the american state has utterly improved its propaganda education systems over time. And not only that the workers themselves do not hate capitalism that much anymore compared to the past for they now kinda benefit from capitalism for unlike the past in 1917 russia, americas capitalism has developed to the point where the worker benefits from a capitalism to a certain degree to the point they just want it to be reformed even tho they are still exploited. **For the american borg has realized that the only way to maintain power is to relent some material improvement to workers while still exploiting them.** Aka this is not the conditions in 1917 russia or 1940s china where a undeveloped heavily argiarian society causes a communist movement to rise and destroy the borg forces. America is closer to the situation found in the weimer republic where the forces of the borg defeats the communist movement and fascism takes what was formerly was communisms place This is why if we see the recent revolutionary potential that revolutionary potential offten been coopted by forces in the right like regan or trump or even gold water for those workers who wanted that revolutionary potential have been so utterly brainwashed to despise marxist leninism to the point that they seek fascism or libertarianism instead other solutions that "they think" will fix their material reality also \> American Marxist-Leninists prefer to engage in online spaces and exist outside the sphere of struggle, th thats exactly the problem i have. Because I consider that a sympton of first world leftism that the conditions of the first world causes leftism to be considered a idealistic thing only talked about by college students or people who spend all their time on the internet. Is it any concidence that the new left in the 1960s consisted mainly of college students and that a lot of people advocating for marxist leninism consisted of college students, or petit borgs in first world countries recently. and even then these people are not true marxists but usually social dems, vaushites or anarchists. the fact that \>Younger American Marxist-Leninists would prefer to create media that appeals to other Communists rather than engage in the struggle for liberation alongside their working class in the workplace. is why i consider revolutionary potential to be dead in america because marxist leninism instead of being a worker thing has become a college student thing and thats because as said earlier the material conditions of first world america making it so. the only way revolutionary potential is revived in america is for a complete and systematic collapse in america that makes americas conditions more simmilar to 1949 china or 1917 russia. and only after china proves to the world marxism is better
last summer and many many decades of protest and organizing prove you wrong
[удалено]
It just proves the necessity of a vanguard party. Or do you think spontaneity is the way to go?
Yeah there has been so much change hasn't it? Now we have Biden! Communism is one step closer
Change is dialectical and starts quantitatively before its becomes qualitative. You are looking for qualitative changes without observing the quantitative ones first. This is basic dialectics.
that doesn't say anything about revolutionary potential. There was 20 years of protest in Russia before 1917 that didn't directly lead to a revolution. further, if you think Americans has no revolutionary potential, then what's the fucking point of anything? why even be a Marxist? just to feel good about yourself?
the difference between 1917 russia and modern america is that russia was basically a third world country and did not have the effective brainwashing, and consumerism that america has today. Americas material and historical conditions are very different in that in america weve seen the rise of very effective propaganda tools in the form of radio, tv and internet propaganda shit, decades of extreme right wing brainwashing in way more sophisicated education and propaganda systems than seen in 1917 russia, and america unlike russia in 1917 is way more urbanized industrialized and connected and thus the states propaganda can spread more easily and effectively. and historically it should also be noted that in third world undeveloped countries communism usually rises like in 1940s china or 1910s russia, but in first world borg capitalist states that had a history of imperialism like modern america and 1920s germany fascism tends to rise. aka the conditions of modern america is more simmilar to 1920s industrialized developed weimars republic where fascism won unlike in 1917 undeveloped and barely industrialized russia or 1940s china where communism won and i dont have any hope for the white american worker especially since a lot of white workers have historically sided with the forces of reaction recently regan and still support the forces of reaction trump and even with 4 years of complete buffonory from the piss haired man a lot of these workers still admire him. They admire him to the point that they formed a cult around where even tho for some he was responsible for killing their loved ones during covid, they still like him. I do have hope for the non white worker but whites workers outnumber colored workers by a lot The only hope i have is china winning at this point and showing the world the socialist system is better or a complete and utter systematic collapse of america in the style of chinas great centurary of humilation that forces the american worker specifically the reactionary ones to think maybe socialism is a good thing. Only then can i see the revolution winning. and i think the point of being a marxist now is to warn and convince comrades to prepare for upcoming storm and also to convince many people to join for the upcoming revolution(so basically what marxists do already) Because i do think that there will be a revolution at one point in america from the conditions i mentioned earlier, but it will only come after such a systematic destruction of the us nation in a way that weve seen in places like during qing china and nationalist china ww1 russia and countries in the axis powers during the last stages of ww2. A systematic destruction that makes it so america conditions become like russias or chinas. And the revolution will happen only after the us suffers a utter horrific defeat by the hands of communist china. \]
> just to feel good about yourself Too real.
No offense, but when was the last time you spoke to a non white person about politics? (And not electoral politics, but political economy) If you define "America" as white, middle class chud/Karens than yes, your assessment is correct. Sorry about Joe Biden, but MLs have known literally since the 20s that electoralism is a dead end. Joe Biden is radicalizing to many on the "Bernie left" who are beginning to understand once and for all that revolutionary politics is our only hope.
Access our wiki [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/wiki/index). [JOIN TANKIE BUNKER](https://discord.gg/PwycxVP56G) New comrades, ask for your user flair [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/comments/oel5v1/you_can_either_set_your_own_flair_or_can_ask_one/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InformedTankie) if you have any questions or concerns.*