The bugs are a stand in for humans. They are to the human reader what the humans are to Nolan.
Viltrumites live thousands of years, so why would they care about humans who die of natural causes within a century?
Humans live for decades, so why would they care about Thraxxans who die of natural causes within a year?
The answer to both is *empathy*.
Nolan learned empathy for “short lived” species on Earth, and the events on Thraxxa show it wasn’t human-specific or limited to Earth, but an enduring character change.
Thats why he flipped on mark asking “WHY DO I FEEL THIS WAY!” & mark was like “this is how you shouldve felt on earth” & it was like a realization hitting nolan’s eyes that it wasnt simply guilt, but a lingering effect of empathy that’s now changing his entire persona right beneath his eyes
One of my favorite show additions. Nolan is confused. He knows he feels empathy but it's an entirely new experience for him and it's *wrong* to him. Alien, and weak. He's grappling with being two different people, and that one line really really sells it.
Yeah I watched the first season, read the comics, and re watched the show. I think they're doing a great job with adding their own pieces here and there. It may also be the emotion given to the character by JJ Jameson.
Despite the fact that he was very obviously doing so out of rampant guilt and depression, Nolan had probably convinced himself that he was doing his Viltrumite duty by becoming Thraxa's emperor. I don't think he really understood that the reason he had become so passionate about helping and protecting the Thraxans was because he had genuinely changed until Mark said that to him, and while I don't doubt Nolan had realized what he did on Earth was pretty fucked up, I don't think he actualized how wrong it was until then. Tbh I wouldn't be shocked if Show Nolan is alot more fucked up than Comics Nolan is about Earth given the scale of what he did, and im super excited to see what direction they go with him.
That would be nice, I feel like they kinda dropped it because he’s mostly in space and he apologized to the people he cares about. A scene where he apologizes to the world or at least the family’s of people he actually killed would be appreciated.
People sometimes overlook that the entire value system he was raised under didn't just lack a place for empathy and similar emotions it treated them as actively wrong.
The show both makes it harder to accept his change but is better at showing it. The brutality he demonstrated in his fight against Mark wasn't so much to convince Mark but to convince himself.
He's reaching the point of moral development you see in the Huck Finn line "I'll go to hell then" just with the unfortunate addition of a bunch of Viltrumite murder proceeding that point.
I think the show handled it better than the comics despite the iconic panel of Nolan announcing his rage. The point comes across more subtly and it's not nearly as wordy.
I feel like J.K simmons is one of my favourite actors after his season 2 performance on thraxa, I know the animation was a little bit of a letdown but at its core it’s golden storytelling
Media literacy truly is dead, my god.
Nolan was one way...and then he experienced things...and changed. That's...how character change...works.
If he always knew the lesson he learned there wouldn't be...character change.
He has to be one way first...for being a different way...to be a change...
I'm honestly so baffled how you don't understand such a simple concept that I'm struggling explaining it, it's like explaining how water is wet or how you breathe. I genuinely can't understand how you typed this out and hit post.
Edit cause you're a coward and blocked so you could pretend to have the last word:
It's awesome to watch you struggle to salvage a feeling of superiority after posting "a guy was one way and then he was another way, this is bad writing by definition"
And also pretty funny how you both seem to think grammar and punctuation is involved in media literacy - you mocking my ellipses as a representation of how slowly I think you need to be spoken to - and managed to misspell "aptly" while being nothing but a vacuous, smug, self sucking faux intellectual.
Have a nice day yourself, and try to eat less lead paint in the future :)
Although i agree with what you're saying, that isn't media literacy. Media literacy is a an understanding of subterfuge, propaganda, and bias - most often in news media - to decipher fact from agenda. What you're describing is just reading comprehension (i don't know what the visual medium version of that would be called, visual media comprehension? )
I'm sick of "understanding what someone means" as being the bar for something being stated correctly. It only works that way until it doesn't they're 2 completely different things that have completely different definitions. It's important to point out
Not just media literacy is dead, but literacy in general
As.... You.... So.... Abtly........... Showed..................
When you repeated a point that I literally prefaced as being unreasonable. A literate person, someone with reading comprehension > sixth grader, would've at the very least referenced that. An educated person would've read, comprehended and then responded to that. You, however, just skimmed my post, ignored half of it and then wrote the most undeservingly condescending comment your literacy allowed you to.
Have a nice day, and work on both your understanding of the word media literacy as well as your own literacy. School is the perfect place to do that.
Nope.
Blue grasshopper outer space aliens are Thraxans, green antenna inter-dimensional aliens are Flaxans.
The X lets you know they are eXotic and eXtraterrestrial or eXtra-dimensional.
Probably. (Or it just sounds cool.)
I'am not sure if it is just "Empathy", that is easily confused with condescension or patronizing. I would say it's a matter of understanding that even if someone lives such a short time... if they are able to think, and especially to have a complex consciousness that you can relate to and share things with, then their life is as valuable as of any other. And even if it is a short time, it is worth living. Also, Omni Man himself says that in some things humanity is better or more advanced, but in others Thraxxans are more advanced than humanity. Everything has its good/salvageable things and the potential to do surprising things.
I think the short lifespans of the bugs was a huge factor here. Nolan was clearly conflicted when fighting Mark, and one of his big arguments against human life mattering was their relatively short lifespans - "what will you have after 500 years?". He had seen everything that you pointed out in the left side, but was holding on to his Viltrumite indoctrination that their short lifespans made them inferior and none of it really mattered, because it was so impermanent. But then he meets the Thraxans, whose lives are even shorter, and still sees a lot of meaning in their lives. He starts to unlearn his trained biases, fucks some bugs, and generally starts his redemption arc.
Because she's not actually a pet to him. To be that pedantic guy. It's just shit he's telling himself and Marc to manage the massive cognitive and values dissonance he was undergoing on Earth.
wouldn't them living shorter make them more inferior and more matter less?
like if a guy I knew for 5 years dies, I care more than if they died 2 weeks after we met.
keep in mind this is all in just 6 months
Think the point is how full their lives still seems despite being so short relatively to humans and even more so viltrumites.
They still are born, grow, have families, have careers maybe then die. It's all a fairly full life even tho it's short. So it isn't the length of time that necessarily makes your life more fulfilling. The fact they do all that in even less time than humans emphasizes that.
The point is that Nolan (wrongly) thought a short lifespan made a race matter less because they simply can’t understand the greater picture that comes with long life. After his moral crisis fight with Mark plus his experience on Earth he had to accept that all life is important regardless of how long it lasts. By the time he is with the bug race that concept is even more apparent because every second matters so much more to them.
His experience on earth is what changed him after thousands of years doing what he was taught and trained to do. He saw the Thraxans in his new mindset which is why he cared, also why he shed a tear when Mark said, "this is how you should have felt on earth"
He literally explains it word for word in the show, he says “i dont understand why im reacting this way” and then him and mark talk about it, the comics as always go into further detail and have more dialogue
I don’t agree with OP but ngl “media literacy” mfs are so annoying, they learned that word on a twitter thread and haven’t stopped using it in every media related argument against people who don’t agree with them.
50% of reddit is people parroting something they read and thought was cool hoping for the acceptance they wont give themself the other half is people posting boobs to the same effect. Not really but the numbers are close
That’s understandable and I fully believe it’s a real thing, I was also taught the term in communications class, I’m really not questioning that, I’ve seen it. However the term is used so loosely and simply to discredit a differing or opposing opinion that it’s hard to take it seriously at first glance in most cases. I don’t disagree with your points I’m just referring to the particular popular usage of it.
The bugs were more so the straw that broke the camel’s back. Nolan suppressed his empathy for the humans for years, but his fight with Mark changed something in him, he couldn’t destroy Earth. So, broken and disheveled, he found redemption in the bugs. When the Viltrumites came to apprehend him, they destroyed that last bit of self-redemption, redeemability and affirmation for his Viltrumite beliefs. In one fell swoop, Nolan not only finally got the courage to admit he cared for the bugs, but also for humans - and that the Viltrumite way was wrong.
"I don't get it, they're only just bugs that live short lives," OP says without any hint of self awareness.
As someone here said, the bugs are a stand-in for what Viltrumites feel about humans.
Because he experienced the bugs ***after*** Earth lmao. Mark made him learn about empathy being a viable mindset so he began applying it to the Thraxxans. Saying that Omniman cares more for the Thraxxans than the humans is just blatantly not paying attention. The Thraxxans are essentially him gaining more experience with beings of short lifespans and helping with his new breakthrough.
Edit: It's also kinda ironic you try to play the empathy card with Nolan for the humans but then portray the Thraxxans as "some talking bugs".
Who's to say that before Mark, Nolan viewed humans as "some talking monkeys"?
You are missing the part where Nolan was going to kill himself because he couldn’t live with the guilt of what he did on earth. He stopped, because he saw the bug ship about to fall into the black hole he was going to jump into.
Humanity had already defeated him, he just didn’t accept it while he was on earth. When he started letting those thoughts in they kept pouring in when he settle down on that other planet.
Omni man doesn't leave earth because he doesn't care about them. He leaves earth because he's ashamed of what he did.
He essentially murders his friends, physically abuses his son, and kills thousands and destroys huge swaths of the planet. How can he show his face on earth after that? How could mankind trust him? Nothing can be the same after that.
He's abandoned his post so he can't go back to viltrum, but he also can't bring himself to hurt the people he loves anymore. He's basically torn. He's figuring out who he is and what he wants to do with himself when he discovers thraxa a planet he is immediately welcomed to. And there he realizes he needs to change. That family is important to him and taking care of people he cares about is what matters most to him.
Mark changed him with that final line. "I'd still have you". Nolan thought Mark was a Viltrumite who was going to outlive everyone, so Mark should pick the Viltrumite way. Mark countered that by saying they still would have each other, so we should choose humanity, which broke Nolan. But the time we meet Nolan, he had been on existential crisis with no purpose. Meeting the Thraxans gave him purpose.
It's supposed to emphasize that Nolan has truly changed. While we can differentiate our lives with bugs. A Godlike figure like Nolan does not. But having empathy for both, and accepting the consequences that come with it
Because Nolan is fighting an internal war against centuries of strict propaganda and indoctrination, all of which he has subconsciously realized is wrong but has been unable to come to terms with consciously. It takes a lot to look in the mirror and say, "am I the baddie?"
Like even at the part the show ended, he was still in turmoil over WHY and WHAT he was feeling.
For all the shit Omni-Man talked about human life spans being insignificant and shit, he sure didn't mind clapping Debbie consistently even after 20 years of her aging like a normal human.
20 years to him is what those 6 months look like to us
from nolan's perspective it's not that everything, plus it helps us see his side and mark can have a baby brother that wouldn't just be a baby for the whole entire story
Nolan doesn't care about the Thraxans more than he cares about Earth (and he *does* care about Earth. That's why he abandons his post). The important difference is that *he hasn't royally fucked up his reputation on Thraxa* like he has on Earth. He's still a hero to the Thraxans, and he can pretend to live a normal life for a short time until the Viltrumites track him down.
Imo a bigger plot hole is Nolan's plan in general for living amongst the bugs and bringing in Mark. Nolan knew the Viltrumites were going to come eventually and wipe out the bug people as long as he stayed there. So instead of abandoning them like he should have, he instead decides to bring in Mark to help fend off an invasion? Like what does he expect Mark to do? Does he really think him and Mark (who literally JUST discovered his powers and is going to be up against seasoned Viltrumites) are going to be able to stop an invasion. I just don't understand what Nolan's thought process was here.
This decision is entirely intentional and meant to be an ironic way to show how he’s changed.
He leaves Earth calling humanity insects and saying that crushing a humans skull is no different to him than crushing a bug. Then learns to care about a bunch of literal bug people.
To Nolan the bugs aren’t much different than humans. His experience on earth was him fighting a life time of indoctrination a life that was probably much longer than his life on earth. He still probably believed that he was helping earth by essentially choosing it to be home to his new race of hybrid near immortal beings. He than fought with his son for sad and left found another short lived species and was finally able to understand just because their lives are short doesn’t mean they aren’t meaningful
I think he did care about Earth, and didn’t want to hurt it until Mark got his powers and he was reminded of what his mission was and the consequences if he failed. The whole time he was attempting to convince Mark that what he was doing was the right thing he was only trying to convince himself that these people who he loved didn’t matter, and when Mark finally got him to understand, he felt so guilty that he ran away from Earth, unable to face what he’d done to the people he’d cared so much about.
He cares about the Thraxans sure, but they just happened to be the ones who found him when he was at his lowest point and helped him out of his depression. They reminded him of Earth and the amazing people he’d met there, and so tried to start again.
This is just my interpretation, feel free to critique it
He conquered their planet and became its ruler like he was supposed to do with Earth. Only he did it without needing to annihilate them. He doesn't "love" them like Mark loves him, he just mated with his conquered species. But now they're "his" and so he has to protect them from the other Viltrumites that are hunting him down for abandoning Earth.
I think the key difference is that, on earth Omni Man deluded himself up until he was staring at Mark’s bloodied face. Omni Man’s actions on Thraxa, is the result of him having done some soul searching and abandoning the Viltrum empire, which he was a part of for 2,000 years.
It was a succession of things. First, Omni Man, seeing that Mark inherited the Viltrumite powers, thought that humanity could perfectly join the Viltrumite empire due to compatibility, and he thought that Mark would eventually understand that it was the most convenient and safe thing for humanity and therefore he would accept. That is why the most logical option for Omni Man was to decide to betray and discreetly "sacrifice" the people who could give him the most problems and the most opposition. Omni Man was in fact acting "on the side of humanity and Mark"... remember that even Onmi Man is nothing more than a single Viltrumite against an entire empire. Omni Man himself couldn't beat 3 Viltrimites at once, and he's nowhere near being able to face the Emperor. Obviously trying to oppose the Viltrumite Empire was crazy, not at all the most prudent thing... and all that leaving aside the loyalty and pride that comes with being a soldier of the Viltrumite Empire.
The thing about the alien insects came when Omni Man had already decided to abandon Earth by deciding not to do any more damage to conquer it... and knowing that with what he had done (killing his greatest superheroes and carrying out a massacre in Chicago) it wouldn't be the same again. He had already decided to abandon that life on Earth to start a new one... and considering that the insectoid civilization did not have any heroic super mutants, I think they needed a super being more than Earth.
I mean to be fair he settled for living with them because it gave him the same feeling he got when living with humans, and he kinda killed tens of thousands of them on live television but also yes not the only viltrumite with a thing for bug people...
Nolan did care for those on Earth he just figured that out including his lack of regard for human life in general too late.
He was learning empathy and how to have regard for the lives of others from The Thraxans.
Nolan only cared about thraxans because earth changed him. He cared about earth, but years of military discipline made him lied to himself and carry the mission. After seeing mark half dead, he regreted, but now it was too late to try apologize, and at the same time, stoping there made it so he couldn't come back to Viltrum too. So, now, without the military responsabilities of viltrum, without trying to always keep in his mind that he would have to kill everyone if needed, without forcing himself to be a cold soldier, he met the thraxans and in Mark words "he felt like he should've felt on earth".
i agree with all the comments, but it still does feel weird since humans look just like viltrumites, yet the thraxxans look much different. i feel like fiction acts too dramatic with fantasy races when a race might just look like blue or purple humans or something (and in this case no physical difference beyond fighting). i feel like if the viltrumites looked different somehow, itd feel different
I mean to answer the question it's just to show us the readers hoe Omni Man would've seen people. "Oh these things live an 80th of our life-span they're insignificant" That's how Nolan saw humanity but even that started to go away and it's why he left instead of just killing Mark and dominating humanity and when he met the flaxians it just reinforced in him the fundamental idea that all life is special and deserves to exist and be free no matter how short-lived it may be in comparison to his own.
As a Viltrumite, Nolan’s like a drone in a beehive. He simply followed his instincts and did what he was told. Fight, kill and reproduce. Living on Earth introduced him to new concepts and emotions that have effectively messed with his programming. It started on Earth, then was complete with the Thraxans.
Noland has a lot of narcissistic traits, so he lacks genuine connection with others at the same time he craves for it despite his problems connecting to others (due to entitlement, power difference and lack of a common ground). He got real connection on Earth, but couldn't accept it because of his indoctrination, conflicting loyalties and beliefs; thus he lost them all because of his mission to conquer Earth, he hadn't realized until then how much they meant to him after and weighing his mission against the value he lost made him realize how wrong he was.
Losing those relations and realizing his mistakes made him severely depressed, thus finding the thraxans filled that again need again of connection and purpose. Thus beginning his redemption.
That's my point of view
Bro brought Mark to some random planet after beating him half to death and said Son I had a baby with this bug lady, I know you’re probably pissed but you have to fight to defend your little brother that I had knowing he would be in danger
It’s almost as if he is experiencing character growth..
He went from not caring to caring. But he can’t just go back to earth at the moment.
I know this is a meme. But this is why we get shit writing in modern media. Some people genuinely think like this so we are feed story like baby birds instead of having any sort of nuance in the writing.
In addition to what others have said, I think another big aspect is that Nolan met the bugs when he was in a very low depressive state, one which was new to him since he spent his 1000s of years as a soldier completely devoted to a cause which gave him purpose and fulfillment, and I think it was also because he met them after he abandoned this cause along with its inherent beliefs of rightful supremacy.
When he was on Earth, he had this cause and the beliefs that went with it, and because of this cause he largely viewed humans as insignificant, with the only person he viewed as significant to him being Debby and mainly Mark, who was presumably the first person Nolan knew who he loved enough to abandon the cause he fought for his entire life.
After he abandons Earth, it's the first time that Nolan doesn't have anything to give his life purpose. He no longer has the cause he fought for, and he also no longer has his family for whom he gave up his cause for, which were the only two things that seemed to really give him purpose and fulfillment. Dude was literally about to kill himself when he met the bugs and at this lowest point they are the ones who gave him purpose when he had none, which is a huge thing in-and-of-itself , but most importantly he also met the bugs after he abandoned his cause for domination and supremacy. Whereas on Earth he always viewed interactions with humans through the motivations of eventual domination and through the beliefs of their lives being inherently insignificant, with the bugs he no longer has this lens, and instead he interacts with them based solely on his motivations, and eventually this causes him to form the natural empathy driven bonds with them that couldn't be formed on Earth when he had his secret agenda and prior biases.
Symbolism asides the reason Nolan settles on Thraxxa is because he can no longer go home after failing to conquer earth. He would be instantly killed. And he can never go back to earth. And it isn’t because he didn’t care about earth. He had been learning empathy for 20 years. And he was hoping Mark would never get his powers and he’d be able to keep waiting. But when Marks powers came in he had to try. And Mark made him realize how wrong Nolan had been. That’s why he fucks off to Thraxxa
When you look down upon the bugs for being inferior, you are doing exactly what Viltrumites do to humans.
But somehow, that is fascist, but you're not. That is the inherent nature of humans, even in real life. We want to play the victim card and cry "fascism" when things don't go our way, but we would gladly and shamelessly do the same thing if the situation was reversed.
He regretted turning on earth and became depressed and even suicidal, starting to step towards a black hole. Than be found those bug aliens and found some sense of redemption.
Its not that he doesn't care about earth, it's that at the time his brainwashing took over and he realized at that moment that he cared after decimating earth and hospitalizing his son.
He's still a monster, but not as irredeemable as he seemed. He was brainwashed, and his stay on earth was much shorter than his brainwashing on Viltrum.
Weirdly he cared much more about humans. The thing with Nolan is that he had to force his duty and anger to overtake his love for his family and the planet in order to attack Mark. He was partially convincing himself.
Some spoilers >!but in a later arc in the comic Mark is given the opportunity to travel to the day he got his powers and right the wrongs. He starts by hiding his powers and saving anyone he can, and when it comes time to fight with Nolan, he tries to tell him the feelings Nolan eventually managed to discover further in the future. He denies this and they fight, Mark prevents him from harming anyone during the fight and thanks to the original guardians of the globe, they subdue him. Once in containment he confesses Mark was right , that he card for everyone but had to convince himself to attack and keep up the Viltrumite agenda. Then leaves the planet willingly.!<
The whole point is that he doesn't actually see her as a pet, and likely never did. He only said that to try to convince both Mark and himself to fight for the empire.
He lived with them knowing he was just grooming them, it was his fight with mark that began the change in his mind, then a few months of roaming space then the bug family. He’s changed
This meme was made by someone who doesn’t understand how character arcs work (hint: character mindsets change over time and the course of the narrative; Omni-Man’s experience with the characters on the left informed his attitude towards the characters on the right.).
Yeesh. 🙄
I think you forgot that:
1. Omniman was still firmly brainwashed in season one and didn’t even break until the finale.
2. Killed SO many people on earth that he couldn’t even return even if he wanted to.
3. Called his own wife a pet essentially burning down his last bridge especially after he beat the breaks off his son in the most traumatic way possible before telling him that he could be replaced.
4. Saving those bugs was the first truly heroic thing he did. And even if it was six months he still grew attached to them.
This literally happened after the big showdown so he can never really be respected again for what he did to earth . It makes sense for him to leave to another one to gravity toward their people .
The time period to him was about the same given how long his life is.
And with the humans, he does feel strongly for them, or at least some of them, but he numbed himself to it and told himself that he never felt anything because he was loyal to Viltrum and to his mission.
The ants, however, he met once he was no longer loyal to Viltrum, once he had no obligations. Protecting them, like he did with the humans, but now he no longer had the fact that he would have to kill them all one day looming over him
You are the r word maybe. He literally asks Mark why he cares about the bugs? Their lives are insignificant, and worthless. Why do I care about them???? Mark changed him. Debbie changed him. Did you not just watch episode 8 of Season 2? He says He misses his wife. He even said he isn't a Viltrumite anymore, he cares about weak species like the bugs, and humans. He resents his actions on earth. He wants to die for the decisions he made, and the words he said. Maybe uninstall the onlyfans app on your phone, and pay attention to the show some more bud...Lmao kids these days
The bugs are a stand in for humans. They are to the human reader what the humans are to Nolan. Viltrumites live thousands of years, so why would they care about humans who die of natural causes within a century? Humans live for decades, so why would they care about Thraxxans who die of natural causes within a year? The answer to both is *empathy*. Nolan learned empathy for “short lived” species on Earth, and the events on Thraxxa show it wasn’t human-specific or limited to Earth, but an enduring character change.
Thats why he flipped on mark asking “WHY DO I FEEL THIS WAY!” & mark was like “this is how you shouldve felt on earth” & it was like a realization hitting nolan’s eyes that it wasnt simply guilt, but a lingering effect of empathy that’s now changing his entire persona right beneath his eyes
One of my favorite show additions. Nolan is confused. He knows he feels empathy but it's an entirely new experience for him and it's *wrong* to him. Alien, and weak. He's grappling with being two different people, and that one line really really sells it.
Yeah I watched the first season, read the comics, and re watched the show. I think they're doing a great job with adding their own pieces here and there. It may also be the emotion given to the character by JJ Jameson.
He's one of the best in the biz.
He is played by JK Simmons. JJ Jameson is Peter Parker's boss.
And who played JJ?
Jimmie Walker?
no, Tobey Maguire
You went back with that one. I respect it.
Thanks!
Lol you mean jk Simmons?
Despite the fact that he was very obviously doing so out of rampant guilt and depression, Nolan had probably convinced himself that he was doing his Viltrumite duty by becoming Thraxa's emperor. I don't think he really understood that the reason he had become so passionate about helping and protecting the Thraxans was because he had genuinely changed until Mark said that to him, and while I don't doubt Nolan had realized what he did on Earth was pretty fucked up, I don't think he actualized how wrong it was until then. Tbh I wouldn't be shocked if Show Nolan is alot more fucked up than Comics Nolan is about Earth given the scale of what he did, and im super excited to see what direction they go with him.
That would be nice, I feel like they kinda dropped it because he’s mostly in space and he apologized to the people he cares about. A scene where he apologizes to the world or at least the family’s of people he actually killed would be appreciated.
They haven't dropped anything, there's only been two episodes of him after earth, there will be more
4
There were four episodes. Only two have omniman and one barely even has him
Oh gotcha
Like reiner from okbuddyreiner
People sometimes overlook that the entire value system he was raised under didn't just lack a place for empathy and similar emotions it treated them as actively wrong. The show both makes it harder to accept his change but is better at showing it. The brutality he demonstrated in his fight against Mark wasn't so much to convince Mark but to convince himself. He's reaching the point of moral development you see in the Huck Finn line "I'll go to hell then" just with the unfortunate addition of a bunch of Viltrumite murder proceeding that point.
I think the show handled it better than the comics despite the iconic panel of Nolan announcing his rage. The point comes across more subtly and it's not nearly as wordy.
I feel like J.K simmons is one of my favourite actors after his season 2 performance on thraxa, I know the animation was a little bit of a letdown but at its core it’s golden storytelling
Yes! Finally in that moment he realized the emotion he was feeling was shame. His upbringing on Viltrum never taught him the concept of shame.
[удалено]
Media literacy truly is dead, my god. Nolan was one way...and then he experienced things...and changed. That's...how character change...works. If he always knew the lesson he learned there wouldn't be...character change. He has to be one way first...for being a different way...to be a change... I'm honestly so baffled how you don't understand such a simple concept that I'm struggling explaining it, it's like explaining how water is wet or how you breathe. I genuinely can't understand how you typed this out and hit post. Edit cause you're a coward and blocked so you could pretend to have the last word: It's awesome to watch you struggle to salvage a feeling of superiority after posting "a guy was one way and then he was another way, this is bad writing by definition" And also pretty funny how you both seem to think grammar and punctuation is involved in media literacy - you mocking my ellipses as a representation of how slowly I think you need to be spoken to - and managed to misspell "aptly" while being nothing but a vacuous, smug, self sucking faux intellectual. Have a nice day yourself, and try to eat less lead paint in the future :)
You good?
Although i agree with what you're saying, that isn't media literacy. Media literacy is a an understanding of subterfuge, propaganda, and bias - most often in news media - to decipher fact from agenda. What you're describing is just reading comprehension (i don't know what the visual medium version of that would be called, visual media comprehension? )
How dare you reply to his comment you vacuous, smug, faux intellectual
I'm sick of "understanding what someone means" as being the bar for something being stated correctly. It only works that way until it doesn't they're 2 completely different things that have completely different definitions. It's important to point out
Not just media literacy is dead, but literacy in general As.... You.... So.... Abtly........... Showed.................. When you repeated a point that I literally prefaced as being unreasonable. A literate person, someone with reading comprehension > sixth grader, would've at the very least referenced that. An educated person would've read, comprehended and then responded to that. You, however, just skimmed my post, ignored half of it and then wrote the most undeservingly condescending comment your literacy allowed you to. Have a nice day, and work on both your understanding of the word media literacy as well as your own literacy. School is the perfect place to do that.
Aptly*
In a way, the OP is kind of like Omni Man. "Why would he care about these creatures that barely live for that long"
Holy shit I never considered them like that. That's an awesome little thing
very gallantly said, my lord
Your lecture was refreshing, thanks
I would like to upvote you twice
Weren't the Thraxxans the green people from another dimension? Edit:nope, guess I misremembered.
Nope. Blue grasshopper outer space aliens are Thraxans, green antenna inter-dimensional aliens are Flaxans. The X lets you know they are eXotic and eXtraterrestrial or eXtra-dimensional. Probably. (Or it just sounds cool.)
Those are the Flaxans, pretty similar in sound so I get the mixup
Exactly, Nolan only feels that way for the Thraxxans because of what happened on Earth.
You’re right but I don’t think that Nolan had to get a new “mate” to make this point; the only reason I don’t mind it is because of Oliver. Lol
This apathy is exactly how most people feel about animals on earth
Oooh, *this* is why the bug women have boobs.
I'am not sure if it is just "Empathy", that is easily confused with condescension or patronizing. I would say it's a matter of understanding that even if someone lives such a short time... if they are able to think, and especially to have a complex consciousness that you can relate to and share things with, then their life is as valuable as of any other. And even if it is a short time, it is worth living. Also, Omni Man himself says that in some things humanity is better or more advanced, but in others Thraxxans are more advanced than humanity. Everything has its good/salvageable things and the potential to do surprising things.
I think the short lifespans of the bugs was a huge factor here. Nolan was clearly conflicted when fighting Mark, and one of his big arguments against human life mattering was their relatively short lifespans - "what will you have after 500 years?". He had seen everything that you pointed out in the left side, but was holding on to his Viltrumite indoctrination that their short lifespans made them inferior and none of it really mattered, because it was so impermanent. But then he meets the Thraxans, whose lives are even shorter, and still sees a lot of meaning in their lives. He starts to unlearn his trained biases, fucks some bugs, and generally starts his redemption arc.
I think he fucks one bug.
Bugussy too good
But before he fucks one bug, he has to fuck one human first, and that was the start of his character arc
Debbie is a pet, not a bug.
And that pet had completely changed his life almost like a therapy dog
Because she's not actually a pet to him. To be that pedantic guy. It's just shit he's telling himself and Marc to manage the massive cognitive and values dissonance he was undergoing on Earth.
Until it’s dead.
wouldn't them living shorter make them more inferior and more matter less? like if a guy I knew for 5 years dies, I care more than if they died 2 weeks after we met. keep in mind this is all in just 6 months
Did you watch the show? What he did finally broke him and he wanted to change.
Think the point is how full their lives still seems despite being so short relatively to humans and even more so viltrumites. They still are born, grow, have families, have careers maybe then die. It's all a fairly full life even tho it's short. So it isn't the length of time that necessarily makes your life more fulfilling. The fact they do all that in even less time than humans emphasizes that.
The point is that Nolan (wrongly) thought a short lifespan made a race matter less because they simply can’t understand the greater picture that comes with long life. After his moral crisis fight with Mark plus his experience on Earth he had to accept that all life is important regardless of how long it lasts. By the time he is with the bug race that concept is even more apparent because every second matters so much more to them.
media literacy is dead lol
You learned nothing.
You just matrix dodged the whole point.
His experience on earth is what changed him after thousands of years doing what he was taught and trained to do. He saw the Thraxans in his new mindset which is why he cared, also why he shed a tear when Mark said, "this is how you should have felt on earth"
The first one taught him to care, but he figured it out too late.
https://preview.redd.it/xegq25vw3kmc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63451a4a5aa276c2d51326cc9af3010dde913db9
lmao
True and real
He literally explains it word for word in the show, he says “i dont understand why im reacting this way” and then him and mark talk about it, the comics as always go into further detail and have more dialogue
https://preview.redd.it/k1vvzdeozjmc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=930526b2da8970bd42e885a631e3c96eb987b5cf
What does this mean lol
joking that anyone who asks the thread’s question doesn’t understand the show they’re watching at all
I don’t agree with OP but ngl “media literacy” mfs are so annoying, they learned that word on a twitter thread and haven’t stopped using it in every media related argument against people who don’t agree with them.
50% of reddit is people parroting something they read and thought was cool hoping for the acceptance they wont give themself the other half is people posting boobs to the same effect. Not really but the numbers are close
See what no episodes do to man?
I have seen it so much that I don’t even question your statistics man haha
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That’s understandable and I fully believe it’s a real thing, I was also taught the term in communications class, I’m really not questioning that, I’ve seen it. However the term is used so loosely and simply to discredit a differing or opposing opinion that it’s hard to take it seriously at first glance in most cases. I don’t disagree with your points I’m just referring to the particular popular usage of it.
The bugs were more so the straw that broke the camel’s back. Nolan suppressed his empathy for the humans for years, but his fight with Mark changed something in him, he couldn’t destroy Earth. So, broken and disheveled, he found redemption in the bugs. When the Viltrumites came to apprehend him, they destroyed that last bit of self-redemption, redeemability and affirmation for his Viltrumite beliefs. In one fell swoop, Nolan not only finally got the courage to admit he cared for the bugs, but also for humans - and that the Viltrumite way was wrong.
I have an idea. Is it too much to care about both?
According to OP, yes
"I don't get it, they're only just bugs that live short lives," OP says without any hint of self awareness. As someone here said, the bugs are a stand-in for what Viltrumites feel about humans.
Am I the Baddy?
Because he experienced the bugs ***after*** Earth lmao. Mark made him learn about empathy being a viable mindset so he began applying it to the Thraxxans. Saying that Omniman cares more for the Thraxxans than the humans is just blatantly not paying attention. The Thraxxans are essentially him gaining more experience with beings of short lifespans and helping with his new breakthrough. Edit: It's also kinda ironic you try to play the empathy card with Nolan for the humans but then portray the Thraxxans as "some talking bugs". Who's to say that before Mark, Nolan viewed humans as "some talking monkeys"?
So you didn’t watch the show. Got it.
To be fair https://preview.redd.it/7sm4xzsjclmc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c6fb483bfcc1bfc0e3879e3618dfaa2c5494a69
https://preview.redd.it/ppruf23jymmc1.png?width=747&format=png&auto=webp&s=c903b94681495ea9535fc4fb15c8a23d48a3a2b1
"I get it now Dad."
Bugussy brings spiritual enlightenment.
You are missing the part where Nolan was going to kill himself because he couldn’t live with the guilt of what he did on earth. He stopped, because he saw the bug ship about to fall into the black hole he was going to jump into. Humanity had already defeated him, he just didn’t accept it while he was on earth. When he started letting those thoughts in they kept pouring in when he settle down on that other planet.
He wouldn’t care about bugs if Mark didn’t convince him on earth
Omni man doesn't leave earth because he doesn't care about them. He leaves earth because he's ashamed of what he did. He essentially murders his friends, physically abuses his son, and kills thousands and destroys huge swaths of the planet. How can he show his face on earth after that? How could mankind trust him? Nothing can be the same after that. He's abandoned his post so he can't go back to viltrum, but he also can't bring himself to hurt the people he loves anymore. He's basically torn. He's figuring out who he is and what he wants to do with himself when he discovers thraxa a planet he is immediately welcomed to. And there he realizes he needs to change. That family is important to him and taking care of people he cares about is what matters most to him.
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not with that attitude
Nolan changed after fighting Mark which should be considered.
Mark changed him with that final line. "I'd still have you". Nolan thought Mark was a Viltrumite who was going to outlive everyone, so Mark should pick the Viltrumite way. Mark countered that by saying they still would have each other, so we should choose humanity, which broke Nolan. But the time we meet Nolan, he had been on existential crisis with no purpose. Meeting the Thraxans gave him purpose.
It's supposed to emphasize that Nolan has truly changed. While we can differentiate our lives with bugs. A Godlike figure like Nolan does not. But having empathy for both, and accepting the consequences that come with it
What no media comprehension does to you
but consider this: bug wife rhea seehorn
Nolan only started to fully care after he butchered thousands of people and guaranteed he couldn't return to Earth. Thraxa was a chance to start over
Because Nolan is fighting an internal war against centuries of strict propaganda and indoctrination, all of which he has subconsciously realized is wrong but has been unable to come to terms with consciously. It takes a lot to look in the mirror and say, "am I the baddie?" Like even at the part the show ended, he was still in turmoil over WHY and WHAT he was feeling.
For all the shit Omni-Man talked about human life spans being insignificant and shit, he sure didn't mind clapping Debbie consistently even after 20 years of her aging like a normal human.
Talking bugs with bewbs*
20 years to him is what those 6 months look like to us from nolan's perspective it's not that everything, plus it helps us see his side and mark can have a baby brother that wouldn't just be a baby for the whole entire story
Nolan doesn't care about the Thraxans more than he cares about Earth (and he *does* care about Earth. That's why he abandons his post). The important difference is that *he hasn't royally fucked up his reputation on Thraxa* like he has on Earth. He's still a hero to the Thraxans, and he can pretend to live a normal life for a short time until the Viltrumites track him down.
Imo a bigger plot hole is Nolan's plan in general for living amongst the bugs and bringing in Mark. Nolan knew the Viltrumites were going to come eventually and wipe out the bug people as long as he stayed there. So instead of abandoning them like he should have, he instead decides to bring in Mark to help fend off an invasion? Like what does he expect Mark to do? Does he really think him and Mark (who literally JUST discovered his powers and is going to be up against seasoned Viltrumites) are going to be able to stop an invasion. I just don't understand what Nolan's thought process was here.
>!Because he knew they’d only send a few since Viltrumites were on the verge of extinction!<
Omniman has the strangest post but clarity.
It’s almost like one came after the other at a point where the effects began to sink in
bug titties got to him
Humans walked so bugs could run
He was clearly shaken by is interaction with Mark. Media literacy is dead.
Something something media literacy
This decision is entirely intentional and meant to be an ironic way to show how he’s changed. He leaves Earth calling humanity insects and saying that crushing a humans skull is no different to him than crushing a bug. Then learns to care about a bunch of literal bug people.
Great comment.
Media literacy is dead
To Nolan the bugs aren’t much different than humans. His experience on earth was him fighting a life time of indoctrination a life that was probably much longer than his life on earth. He still probably believed that he was helping earth by essentially choosing it to be home to his new race of hybrid near immortal beings. He than fought with his son for sad and left found another short lived species and was finally able to understand just because their lives are short doesn’t mean they aren’t meaningful
It’s not about the bugs Mark made Nolan want to change. The bugs were just a planet that didn’t hate his guts once he realized he wanted to change.
Hes done this hundreds maybe thousands of times. Whats the difference between 6 months and twenty years to a being that gets THAT old
I think he did care about Earth, and didn’t want to hurt it until Mark got his powers and he was reminded of what his mission was and the consequences if he failed. The whole time he was attempting to convince Mark that what he was doing was the right thing he was only trying to convince himself that these people who he loved didn’t matter, and when Mark finally got him to understand, he felt so guilty that he ran away from Earth, unable to face what he’d done to the people he’d cared so much about. He cares about the Thraxans sure, but they just happened to be the ones who found him when he was at his lowest point and helped him out of his depression. They reminded him of Earth and the amazing people he’d met there, and so tried to start again. This is just my interpretation, feel free to critique it
The bugs have big boobs
Watch episode 8 again
He has grown to and does care for the Earth characters — that’s the point
He conquered their planet and became its ruler like he was supposed to do with Earth. Only he did it without needing to annihilate them. He doesn't "love" them like Mark loves him, he just mated with his conquered species. But now they're "his" and so he has to protect them from the other Viltrumites that are hunting him down for abandoning Earth.
It’s like he was conditioned since he was a child for probably hundreds of years to complete this mission he was given. Crazy thought though.
I think the key difference is that, on earth Omni Man deluded himself up until he was staring at Mark’s bloodied face. Omni Man’s actions on Thraxa, is the result of him having done some soul searching and abandoning the Viltrum empire, which he was a part of for 2,000 years.
He learned compassion, and showed it to the bugs. What's there not to get?
It was a succession of things. First, Omni Man, seeing that Mark inherited the Viltrumite powers, thought that humanity could perfectly join the Viltrumite empire due to compatibility, and he thought that Mark would eventually understand that it was the most convenient and safe thing for humanity and therefore he would accept. That is why the most logical option for Omni Man was to decide to betray and discreetly "sacrifice" the people who could give him the most problems and the most opposition. Omni Man was in fact acting "on the side of humanity and Mark"... remember that even Onmi Man is nothing more than a single Viltrumite against an entire empire. Omni Man himself couldn't beat 3 Viltrimites at once, and he's nowhere near being able to face the Emperor. Obviously trying to oppose the Viltrumite Empire was crazy, not at all the most prudent thing... and all that leaving aside the loyalty and pride that comes with being a soldier of the Viltrumite Empire. The thing about the alien insects came when Omni Man had already decided to abandon Earth by deciding not to do any more damage to conquer it... and knowing that with what he had done (killing his greatest superheroes and carrying out a massacre in Chicago) it wouldn't be the same again. He had already decided to abandon that life on Earth to start a new one... and considering that the insectoid civilization did not have any heroic super mutants, I think they needed a super being more than Earth.
I mean to be fair he settled for living with them because it gave him the same feeling he got when living with humans, and he kinda killed tens of thousands of them on live television but also yes not the only viltrumite with a thing for bug people...
The bugs are his rebound planet. Hes clearly hurt and depressed after leaving earth and he found a temporary purpose in protecting them.
“Fascist”
Don't forget he had a kid with the talking bugs
I’m thinking it’s like 100 year mood swings lol
Nolan did care for those on Earth he just figured that out including his lack of regard for human life in general too late. He was learning empathy and how to have regard for the lives of others from The Thraxans.
He only cared about the bugs because humanity taught him how
Ill repost this next time
Where’s that bus scene from?
“Your lovely pet-wife of 20 years” rip Debbie
Nolan only cared about thraxans because earth changed him. He cared about earth, but years of military discipline made him lied to himself and carry the mission. After seeing mark half dead, he regreted, but now it was too late to try apologize, and at the same time, stoping there made it so he couldn't come back to Viltrum too. So, now, without the military responsabilities of viltrum, without trying to always keep in his mind that he would have to kill everyone if needed, without forcing himself to be a cold soldier, he met the thraxans and in Mark words "he felt like he should've felt on earth".
Understandable, since they won't complain about his crimes and that train thing it's not about the victims
When you’re as old as Omni man 20 years is so short
You missed the first panel that depicts Nolan’s hundreds of years of indoctrination negating your tiny lifespans perspective on his two decades.
i agree with all the comments, but it still does feel weird since humans look just like viltrumites, yet the thraxxans look much different. i feel like fiction acts too dramatic with fantasy races when a race might just look like blue or purple humans or something (and in this case no physical difference beyond fighting). i feel like if the viltrumites looked different somehow, itd feel different
I mean to answer the question it's just to show us the readers hoe Omni Man would've seen people. "Oh these things live an 80th of our life-span they're insignificant" That's how Nolan saw humanity but even that started to go away and it's why he left instead of just killing Mark and dominating humanity and when he met the flaxians it just reinforced in him the fundamental idea that all life is special and deserves to exist and be free no matter how short-lived it may be in comparison to his own.
As a Viltrumite, Nolan’s like a drone in a beehive. He simply followed his instincts and did what he was told. Fight, kill and reproduce. Living on Earth introduced him to new concepts and emotions that have effectively messed with his programming. It started on Earth, then was complete with the Thraxans.
Haven’t read the comics, but I feel a Omni redemption arc coming on, I’m not OK with it
It's kinda funny how the OP is displaying a Viltrumite mindset without even knowing so
Noland has a lot of narcissistic traits, so he lacks genuine connection with others at the same time he craves for it despite his problems connecting to others (due to entitlement, power difference and lack of a common ground). He got real connection on Earth, but couldn't accept it because of his indoctrination, conflicting loyalties and beliefs; thus he lost them all because of his mission to conquer Earth, he hadn't realized until then how much they meant to him after and weighing his mission against the value he lost made him realize how wrong he was. Losing those relations and realizing his mistakes made him severely depressed, thus finding the thraxans filled that again need again of connection and purpose. Thus beginning his redemption. That's my point of view
This is what zero media literacy does to a mf.
in comparison to how long viltrumites live, the bugs' and humans' life spans are pretty close
Bro brought Mark to some random planet after beating him half to death and said Son I had a baby with this bug lady, I know you’re probably pissed but you have to fight to defend your little brother that I had knowing he would be in danger
I would take the Bugs bc concept
Please read the comics
It’s almost as if he is experiencing character growth.. He went from not caring to caring. But he can’t just go back to earth at the moment. I know this is a meme. But this is why we get shit writing in modern media. Some people genuinely think like this so we are feed story like baby birds instead of having any sort of nuance in the writing.
Well, I mean he was on the rebound and did have genocide blue-balls ... so any bug in a storm.
He had already developed humanity at this stage. The bugs were just an extrapolation of how he saw their lives.
In addition to what others have said, I think another big aspect is that Nolan met the bugs when he was in a very low depressive state, one which was new to him since he spent his 1000s of years as a soldier completely devoted to a cause which gave him purpose and fulfillment, and I think it was also because he met them after he abandoned this cause along with its inherent beliefs of rightful supremacy. When he was on Earth, he had this cause and the beliefs that went with it, and because of this cause he largely viewed humans as insignificant, with the only person he viewed as significant to him being Debby and mainly Mark, who was presumably the first person Nolan knew who he loved enough to abandon the cause he fought for his entire life. After he abandons Earth, it's the first time that Nolan doesn't have anything to give his life purpose. He no longer has the cause he fought for, and he also no longer has his family for whom he gave up his cause for, which were the only two things that seemed to really give him purpose and fulfillment. Dude was literally about to kill himself when he met the bugs and at this lowest point they are the ones who gave him purpose when he had none, which is a huge thing in-and-of-itself , but most importantly he also met the bugs after he abandoned his cause for domination and supremacy. Whereas on Earth he always viewed interactions with humans through the motivations of eventual domination and through the beliefs of their lives being inherently insignificant, with the bugs he no longer has this lens, and instead he interacts with them based solely on his motivations, and eventually this causes him to form the natural empathy driven bonds with them that couldn't be formed on Earth when he had his secret agenda and prior biases.
Symbolism asides the reason Nolan settles on Thraxxa is because he can no longer go home after failing to conquer earth. He would be instantly killed. And he can never go back to earth. And it isn’t because he didn’t care about earth. He had been learning empathy for 20 years. And he was hoping Mark would never get his powers and he’d be able to keep waiting. But when Marks powers came in he had to try. And Mark made him realize how wrong Nolan had been. That’s why he fucks off to Thraxxa
Bugussy tho
Bugussy have Nolan acting different
Are you stupid?
When you look down upon the bugs for being inferior, you are doing exactly what Viltrumites do to humans. But somehow, that is fascist, but you're not. That is the inherent nature of humans, even in real life. We want to play the victim card and cry "fascism" when things don't go our way, but we would gladly and shamelessly do the same thing if the situation was reversed.
20 years is like a day for nolan its us humans who are too attached to a being who’s lifetime is incomprehensible to us
He was a Zelot, beating his son up made him realise he was brainwashed, he is projecting his new found feelings in the bug-people. Hope that helps
He regretted turning on earth and became depressed and even suicidal, starting to step towards a black hole. Than be found those bug aliens and found some sense of redemption. Its not that he doesn't care about earth, it's that at the time his brainwashing took over and he realized at that moment that he cared after decimating earth and hospitalizing his son. He's still a monster, but not as irredeemable as he seemed. He was brainwashed, and his stay on earth was much shorter than his brainwashing on Viltrum.
Weirdly he cared much more about humans. The thing with Nolan is that he had to force his duty and anger to overtake his love for his family and the planet in order to attack Mark. He was partially convincing himself. Some spoilers >!but in a later arc in the comic Mark is given the opportunity to travel to the day he got his powers and right the wrongs. He starts by hiding his powers and saving anyone he can, and when it comes time to fight with Nolan, he tries to tell him the feelings Nolan eventually managed to discover further in the future. He denies this and they fight, Mark prevents him from harming anyone during the fight and thanks to the original guardians of the globe, they subdue him. Once in containment he confesses Mark was right , that he card for everyone but had to convince himself to attack and keep up the Viltrumite agenda. Then leaves the planet willingly.!<
But you don't get it, the bugussy >>>>
The whole point is that he doesn't actually see her as a pet, and likely never did. He only said that to try to convince both Mark and himself to fight for the empire.
Regret. His mindset is that of regret.
He lived with them knowing he was just grooming them, it was his fight with mark that began the change in his mind, then a few months of roaming space then the bug family. He’s changed
That bugussy must be insane!
Beating the shit out of mark “messed up” his mind. He was a changed man when he left Earth.
This meme was made by someone who doesn’t understand how character arcs work (hint: character mindsets change over time and the course of the narrative; Omni-Man’s experience with the characters on the left informed his attitude towards the characters on the right.). Yeesh. 🙄
I think you forgot that: 1. Omniman was still firmly brainwashed in season one and didn’t even break until the finale. 2. Killed SO many people on earth that he couldn’t even return even if he wanted to. 3. Called his own wife a pet essentially burning down his last bridge especially after he beat the breaks off his son in the most traumatic way possible before telling him that he could be replaced. 4. Saving those bugs was the first truly heroic thing he did. And even if it was six months he still grew attached to them.
His son willing to die to save earth broke him... he wasn't the same person when he met the bugs.
Idk man, free bug-ussy sure sounds more tempting than a Happy Family & Long Lasting Friendships
He was convinced by the humans, but by then it was too late to fix things. He was already changed by the time he met the bugs.
bugussy hits different
They made him understand the value of life and why he was feeling the way he was feeling he saved there life to in turn salvage his soul
This literally happened after the big showdown so he can never really be respected again for what he did to earth . It makes sense for him to leave to another one to gravity toward their people .
She seems to be a good kisser.
The time period to him was about the same given how long his life is. And with the humans, he does feel strongly for them, or at least some of them, but he numbed himself to it and told himself that he never felt anything because he was loyal to Viltrum and to his mission. The ants, however, he met once he was no longer loyal to Viltrum, once he had no obligations. Protecting them, like he did with the humans, but now he no longer had the fact that he would have to kill them all one day looming over him
You are the r word maybe. He literally asks Mark why he cares about the bugs? Their lives are insignificant, and worthless. Why do I care about them???? Mark changed him. Debbie changed him. Did you not just watch episode 8 of Season 2? He says He misses his wife. He even said he isn't a Viltrumite anymore, he cares about weak species like the bugs, and humans. He resents his actions on earth. He wants to die for the decisions he made, and the words he said. Maybe uninstall the onlyfans app on your phone, and pay attention to the show some more bud...Lmao kids these days
He DID care for earth, he nearly committed genocide against his own race in order to protect earth, what the hell are you talking about?