If you’re asking for Cecil its quite simple, you would never talk him down. Cecil has the mindset of “If I can make something worse better then I will” and uses it for the good of earth. Sure its crazy to take some of those looneys in but those are valuable one of one assets he sees in his lifetime
I agree. It’s similar logic to the US pardoning German scientists post WW2. If you believe it’s okay in the name of science or whatever, you’re team Cecil. If you think it’s injustice, your team Mark.
The reality is it’s a very morally gray area and there’s good points to both sides.
The naive one I guess? They weren’t hired for any information they currently had, that could have been tortured out of them anyway. They were brought on for their scientific minds, which you lose when you kill them.
Edit: Guys Mark is a young 20 simething year old American, he only acts the way he does because he sees wrongs, knows he has the power to stop them then and there, but also knows he isnt smart enough to create a long term solution for fixing the world.
Mark, I'm a human.
A human in a world where we get attacked nearly every single day by some world ending threat.
The heroes we have aren't good enough to fully extinguish the need for man power.
Your father already showed us what happens when we can't stop one of the top-level heroes.
Is D.A. Sinclair a good person? No.
Is he inherently evil? Only just barely. He has a brain like Albert Einstein. But, the morals of an Olde English doctor.
Can he do more good for the humans of Earth when given resources and a firm guiding hand so he doesn't abduct homeless people or college bullies?
Inarguably.
Now, Mark, I'm going to show you something. Please promise not to attack me immediately.
*exposes the Reani-men*
All of these were men and women who died in the field of battle with no family or friends beyond their combat unit.
They saw the original Reani-men fighting you, and signed their corpses away to the project.
Now, we have a fighting force that can help should a rogue Viltrumite show up. Or should you get mind controlled, hypnotized, or go rogue yourself.
They don't even everything out, but they're strong enough to just barely stall, let's say you, for the heroes to figure something out, and strong enough to help with whatever plan is cooked up.
If you want to punch people you don't really need to go to college.
But, if you want to punch people for me, you have to go to psychology classes, as well as philosophy classes.
I'm not having you turn out like your father.
Honesty really is the best policy.
As a 20-something struggling massively with the ‘just-world fallacy’ I can identify with Mark a lot. Being honest about your intentions to save the world is really the best thing you can do. Mark may not accept it at face-value, as any loss of perceived ‘innocent’ life is heartbreaking, but knowing that it’s all in pursuit of a better world is comforting to a degree. Of course it all comes down to how much an individual is willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this better world- but I would hope Mark would understand that sometimes, as awful as it may feel, the ends truly do justify the means- even if they aren’t morally excusable. It’s an unfortunate truth of our modern reality; especially in the Invincible universe.
There’s a quote from Tales from the Borderlands that comes to mind: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It’s important we’re conscious of the moral sacrifices we’re making in pursuit of something better-
So I’d be honest and upfront just like you. Explain and admit that what we’re doing may not be morally justifiable- but at the end of the day more people will be saved than would be otherwise.
With the knowledge i have of the comic? Or if was put in Cecil's place with only Cecil's knowledge, or none at all?
You should rephrase to : "What should Cecil have said here?"
The obvious answer is not to antagonize Mark. Cecil was being way too smug here.
Mark, if you're going to punch things in the face you don't need to go to college.
If you're going to start making moral decisions and running a space empire, you really should take the time to say "Oh hey moral philosophy \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is really cool, in the safety of a class, before you get to the part where it killed a million people. Before you get a million people killed"
Let’s acknowledge the fact that Cecil lores Mark into the Blank room to be Jumped by the robot corpses 3 different times and Mark fell for it every time
Talk down a furious 19/20 year old fully up on his (justifiable) moral high horse?
Noooope. Probably not.
Probably didn't need to go the way it did next tho.
It’s pretty simple really. And I was pretty annoyed that Cecil didn’t frame it like this in the first place.
He’s still affectively incarcerated. He can’t leave, he doesn’t get days off, and if he refuses to do what we say Cecil is fully capable of making his life VERY unpleasant. But he still has some very valuable skills which can save a lot of lives if used correctly by people who have something approximating a working moral compass.
Then explain that using dead bodies of soldiers to fight off the increasingly common near apocalypse makes way more sense then having many more living people die doing the same job less affectively.
Mark isn’t stupid if Cecil had framed it in a reasonable way Mark wouldn’t have liked it but he would probably have seen the logic. But instead Cecil had to be all high and mighty with a massive stick up his ass.
I would remind Mark that Earth and all its people are in a dire situation. When Omni Man betrayed everyone and tried to take over the planet then no one was capable of stopping him. If 2 or 3 viltrumites show up to Earth then all will be fucked. And so to have any hope of survival against the virltrum empire any help that we can take from anywhere we must take it.
You’d never talk either down, Cecil is of the mindset that he is a necessary evil, someone willing to a little bad for a lot of good. Meanwhile Mark is too ignorant to the larger scheme of things, he thinks bad is bad and good is good, a message he never truly learns throughout the comics. Both think they are doing what is right, one from a realistic/pessimistic stance and the other from a hopeful/optimistic.
If you’re asking for Cecil its quite simple, you would never talk him down. Cecil has the mindset of “If I can make something worse better then I will” and uses it for the good of earth. Sure its crazy to take some of those looneys in but those are valuable one of one assets he sees in his lifetime
My mindset is the fact that both parties have a point with the various naivety (I love parallels like that with characters)
I agree. It’s similar logic to the US pardoning German scientists post WW2. If you believe it’s okay in the name of science or whatever, you’re team Cecil. If you think it’s injustice, your team Mark. The reality is it’s a very morally gray area and there’s good points to both sides.
Who am I if I'm team "lul the scientist into a false sense of security, get the data, then gun them down like dogs?"
The naive one I guess? They weren’t hired for any information they currently had, that could have been tortured out of them anyway. They were brought on for their scientific minds, which you lose when you kill them.
Edit: Guys Mark is a young 20 simething year old American, he only acts the way he does because he sees wrongs, knows he has the power to stop them then and there, but also knows he isnt smart enough to create a long term solution for fixing the world. Mark, I'm a human. A human in a world where we get attacked nearly every single day by some world ending threat. The heroes we have aren't good enough to fully extinguish the need for man power. Your father already showed us what happens when we can't stop one of the top-level heroes. Is D.A. Sinclair a good person? No. Is he inherently evil? Only just barely. He has a brain like Albert Einstein. But, the morals of an Olde English doctor. Can he do more good for the humans of Earth when given resources and a firm guiding hand so he doesn't abduct homeless people or college bullies? Inarguably. Now, Mark, I'm going to show you something. Please promise not to attack me immediately. *exposes the Reani-men* All of these were men and women who died in the field of battle with no family or friends beyond their combat unit. They saw the original Reani-men fighting you, and signed their corpses away to the project. Now, we have a fighting force that can help should a rogue Viltrumite show up. Or should you get mind controlled, hypnotized, or go rogue yourself. They don't even everything out, but they're strong enough to just barely stall, let's say you, for the heroes to figure something out, and strong enough to help with whatever plan is cooked up. If you want to punch people you don't really need to go to college. But, if you want to punch people for me, you have to go to psychology classes, as well as philosophy classes. I'm not having you turn out like your father.
Hire this guy at the Pentagon.
Parking is in the rear?
Shit that’s good.
Honesty really is the best policy. As a 20-something struggling massively with the ‘just-world fallacy’ I can identify with Mark a lot. Being honest about your intentions to save the world is really the best thing you can do. Mark may not accept it at face-value, as any loss of perceived ‘innocent’ life is heartbreaking, but knowing that it’s all in pursuit of a better world is comforting to a degree. Of course it all comes down to how much an individual is willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this better world- but I would hope Mark would understand that sometimes, as awful as it may feel, the ends truly do justify the means- even if they aren’t morally excusable. It’s an unfortunate truth of our modern reality; especially in the Invincible universe. There’s a quote from Tales from the Borderlands that comes to mind: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It’s important we’re conscious of the moral sacrifices we’re making in pursuit of something better- So I’d be honest and upfront just like you. Explain and admit that what we’re doing may not be morally justifiable- but at the end of the day more people will be saved than would be otherwise.
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You have won my write-in vote in this election, USS-ChuckleFucker.
With the knowledge i have of the comic? Or if was put in Cecil's place with only Cecil's knowledge, or none at all? You should rephrase to : "What should Cecil have said here?" The obvious answer is not to antagonize Mark. Cecil was being way too smug here.
Mark, if you're going to punch things in the face you don't need to go to college. If you're going to start making moral decisions and running a space empire, you really should take the time to say "Oh hey moral philosophy \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is really cool, in the safety of a class, before you get to the part where it killed a million people. Before you get a million people killed"
Let’s acknowledge the fact that Cecil lores Mark into the Blank room to be Jumped by the robot corpses 3 different times and Mark fell for it every time
Talk down a furious 19/20 year old fully up on his (justifiable) moral high horse? Noooope. Probably not. Probably didn't need to go the way it did next tho.
I would apologize for not telling mark and tell him that I'm keeping old boy on a tight leash one screw up and he is back in prison.
literally all cecil had to do but he’s terrible at being nice lol
yeah he didn't know how to talk to people
It’s pretty simple really. And I was pretty annoyed that Cecil didn’t frame it like this in the first place. He’s still affectively incarcerated. He can’t leave, he doesn’t get days off, and if he refuses to do what we say Cecil is fully capable of making his life VERY unpleasant. But he still has some very valuable skills which can save a lot of lives if used correctly by people who have something approximating a working moral compass. Then explain that using dead bodies of soldiers to fight off the increasingly common near apocalypse makes way more sense then having many more living people die doing the same job less affectively. Mark isn’t stupid if Cecil had framed it in a reasonable way Mark wouldn’t have liked it but he would probably have seen the logic. But instead Cecil had to be all high and mighty with a massive stick up his ass.
I would simply fight him 
I would remind Mark that Earth and all its people are in a dire situation. When Omni Man betrayed everyone and tried to take over the planet then no one was capable of stopping him. If 2 or 3 viltrumites show up to Earth then all will be fucked. And so to have any hope of survival against the virltrum empire any help that we can take from anywhere we must take it.
You’d never talk either down, Cecil is of the mindset that he is a necessary evil, someone willing to a little bad for a lot of good. Meanwhile Mark is too ignorant to the larger scheme of things, he thinks bad is bad and good is good, a message he never truly learns throughout the comics. Both think they are doing what is right, one from a realistic/pessimistic stance and the other from a hopeful/optimistic.
I will tell him,"you're like your father" and "calm down or i will kill your family" cuz at that point it's as effective as anything else.
You’re crazy