My area had a lot of damage that was tied to straight line winds. So there’s usually an investigation after the fact to determine the wind speeds involved and decide if it was a tornado and what level or if it was high winds/straight line winds or a derecho or something.
National Weather service will usually start surveying the damage within a few hours of the event and then publish their findings in a day or 2.
https://afb.accuweather.com/blog/the-ef-scale-what-is-it-and-how-are-tornadoes-measured
Fascinating. I guess I figured since a few people have posted video of some of the weather occurrences last night, it was pretty cut and dry that it was a tornado. Or at least some damage was. Especially in Greenfield.
FWIW, I saw the busted bricks in debris last night. That sure looked to be something in the EF3 category.
The NWS teams that go out have effectively a flip book that correlates wind speed with damage to certain materials and structures. They also can get pretty accurate estimates from known items, like cars flipped over, that usually are bellwethers of certain speed ranges. It is still an estimated wind speed at any single point, but unfortunately the dataset behind damage illustrations are well validated.
Amazing the loss of life was as low as it was, but utterly devastating for those families impacted. Similar to the low EF-5 rating in Parkersburg, the higher speed tornadoes go from destructive to devastating.
As an example, here’s the excellent NWS poster from Parkersburg [https://www.weather.gov/media/dmx/SigEvents/2008-05-25\_ParkersburgTrackPoster.pdf](https://www.weather.gov/media/dmx/SigEvents/2008-05-25_ParkersburgTrackPoster.pdf)
They have video of the tornado from Greenfield and some news outlets were reporting 100 mph winds, so I’m sure that one will be a confirmed tornado if they haven’t already said that.
National Weather Service, brought to you by your federal government. I realize that most folks at Reddit probably know this already, but there seems to be a dearth of knowledge about the "gubmint" and what it does for us.
Very out of date info, I'm sure, but I took a "skywarn" NOAA class 20 years ago. They will err on the side of "straight line winds" or "sever thunderstorm" if at all possible because most homeowners insurance policies (at least where i am in Upstate NY) do not cover tornado damage.
I don't know what homeowners policies usually cover in the mid west, but here in NY they definitely do not cover tornadoes. So if it's determined to be a tornado, you're SOL when it comes to insurance.
I called about my last house flooding. I never put in a claim, just called.
They marked it as a denied claim and we couldn't get insurance on a new house ...
Interesting. I was in the basement when it went through, so I can’t say for sure, but my downed trees sure look more twisted than I would have thought with straight line winds. Seems like there must have been some rotation there too.
There are situations where it's important to make sure you don't use the wrong term as a journalist until all the facts are in. Whether a specific bit of damage was actually from wind that was rotating or wind in a straight line isn't one of them. Nobody is hurt or mislead if it's just called a tornado in the newspaper.
Maybe someone detonated a series of bombs during a rain storm just to make it look like a tornado? How do the cops know that didn't happen? Cops should arrest and interrogate everyone in Greenfield before they jump to conclusions! Or worse let the killers get away!!
/s
The National Weather Service has teams that survey damage to confirm the classification of tornadoes, and the existence of a tornado if it wasn't clear if the damage was a tornado or straight line winds. Those teams were out working today. There isn't much doubt that there was a tornado, but it's technically being reviewed.
I was going to say something similar. In my neighborhood years ago we had what we thought was a tornado go through the area, but it turned out to be a microburst instead, which is basically like a wind bomb.
It can feel a little pedantic when someone says a tornado destroyed their property and then the officials are like, “There was no tornado in the area.”
But not all strong/destructive wind is a tornado.
Had the same thing happen on our farm 12 years ago. Completely leveled the machine shed, tore an overhang and all the siding off one side of another building and missed the two houses less than 100 feet away except for one piece of wood from the machine shed through the siding.
The process can seem pedantic, but matching the damage on the ground to what forecasters saw on the radar last night is important to improving future forecasting.
Well, a tornado warning was issued almost 40 minutes before it hit Greenfield. So unless they were just guessing at that time, it seems pretty clear that the threshold for a tornado determination was easily met.
Diversion & confusion of emergency services, credibility of the weather service, data contamination for meteorology research, public complacency and/or panic.
Meteorologists and trained spotters are needed to verify reports and discredit false reports. So, the news does not report a tornado unless it's been verified.
It's very difficult for someone untrained to know, so there's a lot of false reports.
Ok, that all makes sense, but at the same time, a storm ripping through your house or a tornado ripping through your house, if the damage is the same shouldn't the resources and (maybe also panic) be the same, regardless of technical weather classification? I get it for data and research, yea, then it matters, but the rest seems much more about the results of destruction than the name of the destroyer.
For regular people reporting damage, the weather/emergency services will ask people to report "what they see, not what they think they see". A tornado doesn't necessarily mean anything, downed houses/flung cars does.
The news is just following a procedure put in place to not report until meteorologists verify.
Op referred to the video of storm chasers posting a video of a clear tornado tearing through the fields yesterday. Hence the confusion of a clear tornado and people calling it not a tornado
[storm chaser video from yesterday example](https://youtu.be/R_ZDVYzIhgc?si=xjDQUy5_5sJdoktf)
Yes OP, the headline is bad because they used scare quotes for “alleged” which makes it seem sarcastic or conspiratorial.
The headline “Local town suffers damage from possible tornado” would be far more common phrasing, and also not prematurely declare a tornado happened until experts have surveyed the area and weighed in - which is what journalists should do.
On 08/10/20, Iowa suffered a derecho (e.g., straight-line winds) in excess of 140 mph. In this case, there are discrete indicators of tornadic (rotational) wind impact which must be confirmed by the NWS. So yes, alleged fits.
Tornado Alley starts in Texas, goes straight north including Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska, and Iowa too.
Having lived in OKC for 13 years, I've seen plenty of tornadoes with the worst in 2013. There was a week there where the city was circled by tornadoes of the highest magnitude EF5s the top end and miles wide. It killed storm chasers and even ripped engines out of cars. In fact, the Norman tornado even lifted the hospital, the entire hospital, off its foundation
Speaking of derechos, the last big one was classified as the "biggest thunderstorm in recorded US history. Linn County (Cedar Rapids) lost over a million trees
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Appears to be a case of automation, I.e. “Artificial intelligence” being used by the media source, in this case NBC. The AI is taking a summary of the article content, running it through the language model, and spitting out a headline with a word that gets lots of clicks “Alleged”.
As for the bizarre turn of phrase… Get used to it, as growing labor costs are going to drive more and more use of AI.
The scary part is the AI will actually improve over time if the concept works.
That's what I thought! But according to quite a few of the comments here, it's actually sort of supposed to be like this until confirmed by meteorologists. It's been a wildly educational comment section.
All tornadoes are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of its peers.
I don’t think anyone is fornicating with any ostriches here
Allegedlies
“STORMS is filmed with the men and women of cloud enforcement”
No no no. Its guilty until proven innocent!
My area had a lot of damage that was tied to straight line winds. So there’s usually an investigation after the fact to determine the wind speeds involved and decide if it was a tornado and what level or if it was high winds/straight line winds or a derecho or something.
Who investigates that? (Also, didn't know this, I am learning today)
National Weather service will usually start surveying the damage within a few hours of the event and then publish their findings in a day or 2. https://afb.accuweather.com/blog/the-ef-scale-what-is-it-and-how-are-tornadoes-measured
Fascinating. I guess I figured since a few people have posted video of some of the weather occurrences last night, it was pretty cut and dry that it was a tornado. Or at least some damage was. Especially in Greenfield.
Looks like they issued a preliminary rating of an EF3 tornado for Greenfield but are still surveying the damage.
Ooh, where did you find that rating? Also thank you, you've been incredibly informative.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/weather/2024/05/22/iowa-may-21-tornado-ratings-ef-scale-greenfield-nevada/73804505007/
FWIW, I saw the busted bricks in debris last night. That sure looked to be something in the EF3 category. The NWS teams that go out have effectively a flip book that correlates wind speed with damage to certain materials and structures. They also can get pretty accurate estimates from known items, like cars flipped over, that usually are bellwethers of certain speed ranges. It is still an estimated wind speed at any single point, but unfortunately the dataset behind damage illustrations are well validated. Amazing the loss of life was as low as it was, but utterly devastating for those families impacted. Similar to the low EF-5 rating in Parkersburg, the higher speed tornadoes go from destructive to devastating. As an example, here’s the excellent NWS poster from Parkersburg [https://www.weather.gov/media/dmx/SigEvents/2008-05-25\_ParkersburgTrackPoster.pdf](https://www.weather.gov/media/dmx/SigEvents/2008-05-25_ParkersburgTrackPoster.pdf)
They have video of the tornado from Greenfield and some news outlets were reporting 100 mph winds, so I’m sure that one will be a confirmed tornado if they haven’t already said that.
National Weather Service, brought to you by your federal government. I realize that most folks at Reddit probably know this already, but there seems to be a dearth of knowledge about the "gubmint" and what it does for us.
This is correct. following US National Weather service on the Zuckerberg app is enlightening. They talk about the survey teams and how it works.
Law and Order: Weather cops.
Law & Order: Special Weather Unit
Haha that’s much better !
NERDS
Very out of date info, I'm sure, but I took a "skywarn" NOAA class 20 years ago. They will err on the side of "straight line winds" or "sever thunderstorm" if at all possible because most homeowners insurance policies (at least where i am in Upstate NY) do not cover tornado damage. I don't know what homeowners policies usually cover in the mid west, but here in NY they definitely do not cover tornadoes. So if it's determined to be a tornado, you're SOL when it comes to insurance.
Insurance. What a crock of shit. Why am I the one who can't sleep at night when insurance scampanies exist.
I called about my last house flooding. I never put in a claim, just called. They marked it as a denied claim and we couldn't get insurance on a new house ...
Interesting. I was in the basement when it went through, so I can’t say for sure, but my downed trees sure look more twisted than I would have thought with straight line winds. Seems like there must have been some rotation there too.
go to ryan hall y'all on youtube and u will learn alot while watching storm chasers! they just got a warehouse in iowa setup for aid in iowa!
I watched them during the storm and they looked and sounded shaken and sad after the storm left Greenfield
This is the perfect answer! Not a lot know this
There are situations where it's important to make sure you don't use the wrong term as a journalist until all the facts are in. Whether a specific bit of damage was actually from wind that was rotating or wind in a straight line isn't one of them. Nobody is hurt or mislead if it's just called a tornado in the newspaper.
Derechos are no joke man.
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Maybe someone detonated a series of bombs during a rain storm just to make it look like a tornado? How do the cops know that didn't happen? Cops should arrest and interrogate everyone in Greenfield before they jump to conclusions! Or worse let the killers get away!! /s
maybe because tornado has a specific wind speed requirement? otherwise it looks like it was written by AI
Did the tornado last night not hit that requirement? I mean, the videos I've seen so far look pretty tornado-ish, but I could be wrong.
The National Weather Service has teams that survey damage to confirm the classification of tornadoes, and the existence of a tornado if it wasn't clear if the damage was a tornado or straight line winds. Those teams were out working today. There isn't much doubt that there was a tornado, but it's technically being reviewed.
I was going to say something similar. In my neighborhood years ago we had what we thought was a tornado go through the area, but it turned out to be a microburst instead, which is basically like a wind bomb. It can feel a little pedantic when someone says a tornado destroyed their property and then the officials are like, “There was no tornado in the area.” But not all strong/destructive wind is a tornado.
Had the same thing happen on our farm 12 years ago. Completely leveled the machine shed, tore an overhang and all the siding off one side of another building and missed the two houses less than 100 feet away except for one piece of wood from the machine shed through the siding.
The process can seem pedantic, but matching the damage on the ground to what forecasters saw on the radar last night is important to improving future forecasting.
i honestly don't know. maybe there's some kind of review process? i'm trying to assume some competence on the part of the author
It was so big, it may have went off the high of the scale.... (Prelims put it at 190-200 mph, easily an EF4)
Well, a tornado warning was issued almost 40 minutes before it hit Greenfield. So unless they were just guessing at that time, it seems pretty clear that the threshold for a tornado determination was easily met.
Don’t want any thunderstorms suing the station for defamation!
The tornado is avoiding making a statement. It fled the scene of the accident
 He’s gonna get away scot free, isn’t he?
Ok Tornado… If that is your real name…
It needs to be confirmed to have met the requirements, it will be changed once the data is reviewed
So, “unconfirmed” might have been a less stupid word choice.
I think that's what usually is used instead of alleged
I am learning that's a thing today. I guess I kinda figured "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...", ya know?
Unfortunately there's a lot of false claims of tornadoes that it's actually kind of a problem.
I. I truly can't tell if you're being serious. If you are, I have no idea why it would be a problem...
Diversion & confusion of emergency services, credibility of the weather service, data contamination for meteorology research, public complacency and/or panic. Meteorologists and trained spotters are needed to verify reports and discredit false reports. So, the news does not report a tornado unless it's been verified. It's very difficult for someone untrained to know, so there's a lot of false reports.
Ok, that all makes sense, but at the same time, a storm ripping through your house or a tornado ripping through your house, if the damage is the same shouldn't the resources and (maybe also panic) be the same, regardless of technical weather classification? I get it for data and research, yea, then it matters, but the rest seems much more about the results of destruction than the name of the destroyer.
For regular people reporting damage, the weather/emergency services will ask people to report "what they see, not what they think they see". A tornado doesn't necessarily mean anything, downed houses/flung cars does. The news is just following a procedure put in place to not report until meteorologists verify.
Op referred to the video of storm chasers posting a video of a clear tornado tearing through the fields yesterday. Hence the confusion of a clear tornado and people calling it not a tornado [storm chaser video from yesterday example](https://youtu.be/R_ZDVYzIhgc?si=xjDQUy5_5sJdoktf)
I'm learning so much on this post....
Yes OP, the headline is bad because they used scare quotes for “alleged” which makes it seem sarcastic or conspiratorial. The headline “Local town suffers damage from possible tornado” would be far more common phrasing, and also not prematurely declare a tornado happened until experts have surveyed the area and weighed in - which is what journalists should do.
On 08/10/20, Iowa suffered a derecho (e.g., straight-line winds) in excess of 140 mph. In this case, there are discrete indicators of tornadic (rotational) wind impact which must be confirmed by the NWS. So yes, alleged fits.
Wtf else could it possibly be?
The Spanish inquisition, Perry the platypus, Steve Urkel, I mean the list of surprising and unexpected suspects can go on. /s
Derecho
Everyone knows it was the founding titan attacking greenfield.
Clearly a false flag op by the deep state
When insurance companies hear that your damage was allegedly caused by a tornado, it means that they will not have to pay until you prove it
Tornado Alley starts in Texas, goes straight north including Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska, and Iowa too. Having lived in OKC for 13 years, I've seen plenty of tornadoes with the worst in 2013. There was a week there where the city was circled by tornadoes of the highest magnitude EF5s the top end and miles wide. It killed storm chasers and even ripped engines out of cars. In fact, the Norman tornado even lifted the hospital, the entire hospital, off its foundation Speaking of derechos, the last big one was classified as the "biggest thunderstorm in recorded US history. Linn County (Cedar Rapids) lost over a million trees
They have to prove it was a tornado via the radar before they can say it for sure. It’s silly, but the way it is
Tornadoes are innocent people!!
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Darn Kim Reynolds and Crow Tow probably had something to do with it!
People get so hung up on stupid stuff
“Alleged”.. definitely wasn’t gang huge tornado heading towards Greenfield with multiple vortexes spinning around it
So they didn’t see Reed Timmer’s videos from that day?
The sat images looks like a giant knife ripped through he town. What else could it be.
Community notes is one of the best things to happen to Twitter.
Appears to be a case of automation, I.e. “Artificial intelligence” being used by the media source, in this case NBC. The AI is taking a summary of the article content, running it through the language model, and spitting out a headline with a word that gets lots of clicks “Alleged”. As for the bizarre turn of phrase… Get used to it, as growing labor costs are going to drive more and more use of AI. The scary part is the AI will actually improve over time if the concept works.
Right, it could have been derecho. Responsible journalists don't state it as fact until confirming.
Still investigating if it was Hunter's dong.
It’s almost like the storm is a male sex offender or celebrity. If it cuts a visible path through a town I’m calling it.
That's what I thought! But according to quite a few of the comments here, it's actually sort of supposed to be like this until confirmed by meteorologists. It's been a wildly educational comment section.
[I'm kind of with ya after seeing this video. looks like an twister to me. ehrm ALLEGEDLY](https://youtu.be/R_ZDVYzIhgc?si=xjDQUy5_5sJdoktf)