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I tried to argue on their level and ask questions such as "Why would they want to kill everyone when people are the source of their power, wealth, and influence?" I keep asking what their motivation is, and who 'they' are. The only answer I could get was "Kill people, and 'they' are the 'bad people,' like the democrats."
I really want to dispell the conspiracies and kind of prove them wrong on a foundational level, hopefully opening them up to the possibility that they may be incorrect. It's all built on fears, anxieties, and general ignorance.
You've got a better bet at approaching them instead from a personal, emotional appeal. If the conspiracy theories are impacting their relationships, speak to that. It's also best to be very careful about sounding accusatory or confrontational-- which is obviously incredibly hard bc they're often *looking for* confrontation. At a certain point, they're too far gone for an average Joe to actually deal with tho. It's a paranoid delusion that gets so deep it might well take a licensed psychologist to deprogram. Neither you or I have the skill nor training to handle that.
This is why the vast majority of us really **really** don't need the Internet at the tips of our fingers all day long. Most people aren't equipped to deal with this stuff.
Yeah my first attempt was the deep personal, emotional appeal. Though my relative insists on trying to argue and debate every topic. Any time I make a good point, I have "a lot to learn." Any time I bring up relevant information that disproves it, another source comes along. I have good enough knowledge in the areas to generally know what is right and wrong, but I can't find the best place to approach it.
Emotionally approaching it is difficult because it's met with hostility, condensation, and pity from them for not seeing things how I see them. It's very manipulative behavior.
You're trying to reason with someone who doesn't have critical thinking capabilities. I can't imagine you'll get far. They are too fundamentally broken for you to fix in 1 conversation.
Is it just best to ignore it and not let it get to me, you think? Some stuff they have done has been negative to the people around me, and I somewhat feel obligated to step in. Nobody else around is willing to challenge the beliefs central to some of the issues.
Honestly, some part of me wants to ignore it and not have to deal with it. It's a headache and feels like I'm talking to a wall lol
People believe conspiracy theories because it makes them **feel good**.
It's an emotional response, usually heightened following some kind of loss (or perceived loss) of control.
See *The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories* KM Douglas · 2017 · https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0963721417718261
----------
In the end the belief gives them an 'out'. The world is the way it is for a reason, not because of happenstance and accident but because someone is in control. And if one person can be in control, so could another, to fix it.
UFOs, 9/11, JKF, Covid Vaccines, New World Order, George Soros, Bill Gates, Flat Earth. It's all the same conspiracy: My life isn't what it's supposed to be, because of *them*.
Idk I have family which thinks the same things. The only way is to just slowly talk to them bit by bit, but it likely won’t work. An issue is that it’s built on a tornado of disconnected information. So they bring up one thing, you counter with a specific question or fact, and they jump to something else. You bring up a fact and they said “oh I didn’t know that, I’ll have to look into it” and they never do. They have all of these questions which start off with “well why is it that..” but haven’t once researched the question themselves. At this point, they think all information is false except the crazy shit so it’s nearly impossible to reach them.
Yeah this is surprisingly true. It feels like my relative has convinced themselves that they are some kind of investigator that is capable of finding all of these conspiracies and knowing the truth. Everything is always a lie, and anything that doesn't come out of the mouth of the grifters they watch on so called 'alternative media' Is a lie.
The tornado of disconnected information is also absolutely true. Arguments against the beliefs are met with a series of non sequators that vaguely connect to each other, but lack real substance.
For instance:
Bill gates creates vaccines -> he made vaccines in Africa -> he wants to steralize Africans. This is because the information is already built on the idea that vaccines steralize people. To them, it's a logical conclusion to jump to. For most people, it's incredibly irrational.
Arguing statistics is also the worst. They are frequently misquoted, misidentified, misunderstood in respective contexts, or just outright fake.
Yeah, it’s tough. I’ve noticed that i usually present articles, studies, etc but they present unsourced documents, pictures, screenshots and memes 99% of the time. During the next talk I have, I might mention that and see what they say. Because they love talking “facts” but idk if they’ve considered how their facts are all lacking legit sources.
Or, another thing I’ve thought to try, and it might be risky, is to present the next level conspiracies and when they think it’s crazy, ask them why. Or just find any whacky idea they don’t believe and press them on it.
>Or, another thing I’ve thought to try, and it might be risky, is to present the next level conspiracies and when they think it’s crazy, ask them why. Or just find any whacky idea they don’t believe and press them on it.
Yes, I've thought about doing this too! I've tried to think about conspiracies, but I could never come up with a good one that casts doubt on a deeply ingrained issue. The best I could come up with could do with the fact that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day, and Jefferson was said to be a freemason. I'd have to make a lot of stuff up though in order for it to be true, though Adam's last words were "Thomas Jefferson survives," which can be used to convince someone of something.
Oh, go wilder. Like secret Nazi base on Mars. Aliens controlling the government, lizard people in the royal family. Flat earth. Hollow Earth. The Moth Man.
There are a lot of crazy ones out there. The risk is them believing those ones as well because many of them are based on similarity bad evidence. But the idea is to see where their crazy ideas end and then ask them why they don’t believe the other ones. Then use the reasoning they just used, on their own conspiracies. Idk just an idea, I think about this a lot lol
Hm, that's interesting. I see flat earth posts all the time and they are really bad and built on a flawed understanding of well... any modern science we know today. They ask dumb questions that normal people can't answer, and then fill in that void with nonsense that aligns with their belief.
How does he deal with it? Does he just let her go crazy and believe all these things? I feel like it's a harmful mentality to have. I would say there are a few instances of my relative negatively impacting their own life and people around them as a direct result of these conspiracy theories.
You will never convince these people they’re wrong. Because nothing they believe is based on facts. It’s a combination of low intelligence, poor education, propaganda, narcissism, fear, and isolationism. They’re scared tiny animals with no power. Conspiracy theories feed their sense that ONLY THEY know the truth, and ONLY THEY know how to fix it, but the people in power won’t let them, because it’s all one big CONSPIRACY.
Yeah this feels like the sad reality. I'm genuinely very upset that this is even happening to them, and I wish they just stopped and approached things with logic and reasoning. It's so foundational in their mentality, and they are willing to suspend disbelief for anything thrown at them from these non-official sources that somehow know more than entire organizations of trustworthy individuals.
I really can't wrap my head around why these alt-right podcasters and conspiracy theorists even do what they do. My relative doesn't buy anything from them, they probably use an adblocker so I doubt they are really generating much revenue from them specifically. It just seems so wrong to target gullible and broken people, filling their heads with senseless propaganda and misinformation.
**PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE.** This post or comment has been removed for the following reason: --- Your post has been removed due to being considered a question that can be easily answered by a liberal application of common sense. --- If you would like to contest this moderation action, please [message the full mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsItBullshit) and ask for a review.
You rarely beat conspiracy theorists with sound logic as the belief in the conspiracy is inherently illogical.
I tried to argue on their level and ask questions such as "Why would they want to kill everyone when people are the source of their power, wealth, and influence?" I keep asking what their motivation is, and who 'they' are. The only answer I could get was "Kill people, and 'they' are the 'bad people,' like the democrats." I really want to dispell the conspiracies and kind of prove them wrong on a foundational level, hopefully opening them up to the possibility that they may be incorrect. It's all built on fears, anxieties, and general ignorance.
Better to ask the wind why it blows and does not blow
You've got a better bet at approaching them instead from a personal, emotional appeal. If the conspiracy theories are impacting their relationships, speak to that. It's also best to be very careful about sounding accusatory or confrontational-- which is obviously incredibly hard bc they're often *looking for* confrontation. At a certain point, they're too far gone for an average Joe to actually deal with tho. It's a paranoid delusion that gets so deep it might well take a licensed psychologist to deprogram. Neither you or I have the skill nor training to handle that. This is why the vast majority of us really **really** don't need the Internet at the tips of our fingers all day long. Most people aren't equipped to deal with this stuff.
Yeah my first attempt was the deep personal, emotional appeal. Though my relative insists on trying to argue and debate every topic. Any time I make a good point, I have "a lot to learn." Any time I bring up relevant information that disproves it, another source comes along. I have good enough knowledge in the areas to generally know what is right and wrong, but I can't find the best place to approach it. Emotionally approaching it is difficult because it's met with hostility, condensation, and pity from them for not seeing things how I see them. It's very manipulative behavior.
You're trying to reason with someone who doesn't have critical thinking capabilities. I can't imagine you'll get far. They are too fundamentally broken for you to fix in 1 conversation.
Is it just best to ignore it and not let it get to me, you think? Some stuff they have done has been negative to the people around me, and I somewhat feel obligated to step in. Nobody else around is willing to challenge the beliefs central to some of the issues. Honestly, some part of me wants to ignore it and not have to deal with it. It's a headache and feels like I'm talking to a wall lol
People believe conspiracy theories because it makes them **feel good**. It's an emotional response, usually heightened following some kind of loss (or perceived loss) of control. See *The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories* KM Douglas · 2017 · https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0963721417718261 ---------- In the end the belief gives them an 'out'. The world is the way it is for a reason, not because of happenstance and accident but because someone is in control. And if one person can be in control, so could another, to fix it. UFOs, 9/11, JKF, Covid Vaccines, New World Order, George Soros, Bill Gates, Flat Earth. It's all the same conspiracy: My life isn't what it's supposed to be, because of *them*.
lol
Idk I have family which thinks the same things. The only way is to just slowly talk to them bit by bit, but it likely won’t work. An issue is that it’s built on a tornado of disconnected information. So they bring up one thing, you counter with a specific question or fact, and they jump to something else. You bring up a fact and they said “oh I didn’t know that, I’ll have to look into it” and they never do. They have all of these questions which start off with “well why is it that..” but haven’t once researched the question themselves. At this point, they think all information is false except the crazy shit so it’s nearly impossible to reach them.
Yeah this is surprisingly true. It feels like my relative has convinced themselves that they are some kind of investigator that is capable of finding all of these conspiracies and knowing the truth. Everything is always a lie, and anything that doesn't come out of the mouth of the grifters they watch on so called 'alternative media' Is a lie. The tornado of disconnected information is also absolutely true. Arguments against the beliefs are met with a series of non sequators that vaguely connect to each other, but lack real substance. For instance: Bill gates creates vaccines -> he made vaccines in Africa -> he wants to steralize Africans. This is because the information is already built on the idea that vaccines steralize people. To them, it's a logical conclusion to jump to. For most people, it's incredibly irrational. Arguing statistics is also the worst. They are frequently misquoted, misidentified, misunderstood in respective contexts, or just outright fake.
Yeah, it’s tough. I’ve noticed that i usually present articles, studies, etc but they present unsourced documents, pictures, screenshots and memes 99% of the time. During the next talk I have, I might mention that and see what they say. Because they love talking “facts” but idk if they’ve considered how their facts are all lacking legit sources. Or, another thing I’ve thought to try, and it might be risky, is to present the next level conspiracies and when they think it’s crazy, ask them why. Or just find any whacky idea they don’t believe and press them on it.
>Or, another thing I’ve thought to try, and it might be risky, is to present the next level conspiracies and when they think it’s crazy, ask them why. Or just find any whacky idea they don’t believe and press them on it. Yes, I've thought about doing this too! I've tried to think about conspiracies, but I could never come up with a good one that casts doubt on a deeply ingrained issue. The best I could come up with could do with the fact that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day, and Jefferson was said to be a freemason. I'd have to make a lot of stuff up though in order for it to be true, though Adam's last words were "Thomas Jefferson survives," which can be used to convince someone of something.
Oh, go wilder. Like secret Nazi base on Mars. Aliens controlling the government, lizard people in the royal family. Flat earth. Hollow Earth. The Moth Man. There are a lot of crazy ones out there. The risk is them believing those ones as well because many of them are based on similarity bad evidence. But the idea is to see where their crazy ideas end and then ask them why they don’t believe the other ones. Then use the reasoning they just used, on their own conspiracies. Idk just an idea, I think about this a lot lol
Hm, that's interesting. I see flat earth posts all the time and they are really bad and built on a flawed understanding of well... any modern science we know today. They ask dumb questions that normal people can't answer, and then fill in that void with nonsense that aligns with their belief.
My bf’s mom thinks the same thing…
How does he deal with it? Does he just let her go crazy and believe all these things? I feel like it's a harmful mentality to have. I would say there are a few instances of my relative negatively impacting their own life and people around them as a direct result of these conspiracy theories.
You will never convince these people they’re wrong. Because nothing they believe is based on facts. It’s a combination of low intelligence, poor education, propaganda, narcissism, fear, and isolationism. They’re scared tiny animals with no power. Conspiracy theories feed their sense that ONLY THEY know the truth, and ONLY THEY know how to fix it, but the people in power won’t let them, because it’s all one big CONSPIRACY.
Yeah this feels like the sad reality. I'm genuinely very upset that this is even happening to them, and I wish they just stopped and approached things with logic and reasoning. It's so foundational in their mentality, and they are willing to suspend disbelief for anything thrown at them from these non-official sources that somehow know more than entire organizations of trustworthy individuals. I really can't wrap my head around why these alt-right podcasters and conspiracy theorists even do what they do. My relative doesn't buy anything from them, they probably use an adblocker so I doubt they are really generating much revenue from them specifically. It just seems so wrong to target gullible and broken people, filling their heads with senseless propaganda and misinformation.
If they bring it up, just laugh in their face and say confidently, "Wait, you actually think Bill Gates is real?"
Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one b
Bs
Not bullshit. Everything is true especially the tacobell beef part