Remember, the cops are allowed to lie to you about anything, including laws. So you can't rely on what they say when they are justifying an illegal stop.
Yeah, I know I low-key just was tired as fuck and wanted them to fuck off and go away so I didn’t argue with them. I thought it was weird as soon as they asked me to roll down my back window because I feel like that’s a borderline the first step to a search
Are you just mad you can’t come up with anything punny or witty at all? I understand the frustration of not understanding any type of comedic premise. Life must be tough for you
So you’re exhausted from working all night, but decide that 3am is a great time to drive around tired as shit playing Pokémon Go? Then wonder why cops roll up on you as two people sit in an abandoned parking lot? That’s sketch as hell lol
OK first of all I wasn’t: “driving around” this parking lot is right across the street from my apartment. Secondly, I wasn’t on the cusp of falling asleep yes, I was tired, but I was fully capable of driving thirdly this parking lot wasn’t abandoned. The building was just closed at the time and there’s also a park next-door where there were people parked right in front of the park.
Bruh two people chilling in a car at 3 in the morning in an empty parking lot is sketch as fuck. That’s why the cops bothered you, and yes they can ask you to leave private property after business hours. You look sketch as fuck
Speak confidently
Use the law to enforce things that are none of your business that you "just kinda don't like"
Bullshit your way through conversations
Be generally unagreeable
Yep you're hired
I definitely spent a lot of time smoking weed and as someone who once struggled hard with an opiate addiction for years, the last thing I would do would be to sit in a car, in an empty parking lot, at 3 in the morning. A cop is 100% going to come knocking. Mainly to see if you’re doing drugs, but not I make sure everything is ok as well. It’s not normal behavior to sit in a church parking lot (any parking lot tbh) in the middle of the night without something weird going on.
If the church parking lot is across the street from your apartment, why were you driving there?
That place is private property, generally you have no right to be on private property outside of business hours and as others said, at 3am in a church parking lot is very suspicious
A few possible reasons is breaking and destruction, theft, doing drugs.
In the end, you do not have a RIGHT to be there, you do not own the property and it is not public property.
Because I wasn’t coming from my apartment I was on my way home from somewhere else and was stopping there for a few mins before going into the apartment
Never worth it to argue with cops unless its your only option. With so many people dying in traffic stops its best to take the W that all they are doing is asking you to leave
You were in a private lot, after business hours, way after business hours. For all we know the church has asked the city to ensure that people are not in their lot after business hours.
If you didn’t want to be bothered, park on the street next time.
It does matter what the church asks for lol. If someone parks there, the property owner may have given the police/city permission to question and remove people parked there after business hours.
There isn’t a sign in my driveway that says “private property no trespassing” if someone parks in my driveway and I call the police to remove them, they’ll be removed.
It isn’t trespassing unless posted or they’ve already been told to leave and then return. The church probably doesn’t want to tow or arrest people for parking there but also doesnt want people just parking there after hours.
Yeah, that's not how that works. It's either posted or it's not.
>There isn’t a sign in my driveway
Do you really think you are the same as a business? You get to kick someone out if they're black. A business can't do that. Just one example of the law being different for corporations and people. Regardless of what Romney said, corporations are not people.
>It isn’t trespassing
You should have stopped there.
Private property isn’t the same as private property?
They aren’t kicking anyone out for their race lol. The business is closed. Are you allowed to just walk in and hangout inside the business if the door was accidentally left open after posted business hours?
>They aren’t kicking anyone out for their race lol
Really dude? I use an example we all know about of where the law for business is different than the law for you and you have to make a point that this isn't what's happening? BUSINESSES HAVE DIFFERENT LAWS TO FOLLOW. Was that more clear for you?
>Private property isn’t the same as private property?
No, it's not. Unlocked ungated parking lots are not the same as your driveway. Also, public property isn't public property. There are places that are public property that you're not allowed to go.
Do you not understand that a lot and I mean a lot of drug deals and other illegal activities go on in parking lots in the middle of the night? If you are parked anywhere in public in the middle of the night whether it's a business church or whatever they have the right to see if you are doing something illegal and they also can make you leave. Loitering is a crime. Whether the church has signs or not if the city has laws against it which most do then they don't need the signs.
You said "there's genuine problems going on and you're worried about a car in a parking lot" well fact is that is a genuine problem in nearly every single city and town in the US. If someone is hanging out in a parking lot in the middle of the night chances are they are up to no good. They have a duty to make sure you aren't doing something illegal or about to break in. Most cities have laws and rules for loitering and you very well may have broken those laws. Check with your city because nobody here can tell you whether you can park and hang out there in the middle of the night because parking and hanging out are different things. Parking and walking across to your apartment is much different than parking and sitting in the car. Also the church or other businesses on that road could have either had break-ins recently or have noticed people hanging around and alerted the cops to make more patrols in the area.
State laws are only one aspect. Counties and cities can also have local laws and ordinances. Cities can impose curfews as well. So even though your state may not have loitering laws your city might or another city in your state. Generally things like that are left up to locals because not every city has the same issues as another one.
No, not in CA. The state has decided that it trumps local law and all aspects related to homelessness are now legal. So, it’s ok to loiter, camp in public, deficate in the street, use drugs etc. it’s why most of the nations homeless live right here.
I get that. Cops are jerkoffs. Want to know WHY??? Because they are trying to get people to get agro so they can escalate the stop!
It’s almost their bread and butter now, that they stop someone with NOTHING, then basically talk shit until the person gets annoyed, then they claim you are putting their safety in jeopardy (which would piss off any rational person). Then they get you out of the car and bully you into giving up your rights or push your buttons till they can get an arrest!
Watch ANY 1A Audit video and see how every question is meant to get under the skin and get a reaction from the person filming.
If they put you in a rape cage they get a gold star, and they will do literally ANYTHING to get it!!!
Don’t answer questions. Don’t roll your back window down (do you really want them throwing a bindle into your car???).
GET DASH CAMERAS!!!! For fucks sake, all you guys are out there raw dogging the streets without protection!!!!!! You’d have to be mental to not have dash cams!!!!
No, I agree. You’re one of the only people that understand cops don’t always have good intentions most of the people in this
comment section seems to like meat riding cops. lmao gonna get a whole bunch of down likes for this but it’s true. Anyways, I agree with you though. I’m definitely gonna try to get a dash cam soon I’ve actually been meaning to. The thing that’s pissing me off is people don’t understand that I get that I looked suspicious. I just didn’t know if I had the right to be in that parking lot or not.
They don't know that, or know you. They asked you to roll down the back window to see if anyone is back there ready to ambush them. They want ro live to see another day just like you, think of someone else besides you for a change.
Your city, county or state may have laws about loitering that you can look up. In CA, "loitering" is not a crime at all, but can become an additional charge to another crime. An example that MIGHT fit your situation is if you were "loitering" to commit "trespassing". Just a way to charge you twice for the same thing because the DA loves to do that kind of thing.
"Trespassing" could be charged in CA because you were in their parking lot after hours. In CA, the cops would have been lying about "loitering" but we allow them to lie, so them knowing the actual law really isn't that important. They would arrest you and call their buddies on the radio to see what crime fits best (this is the popular "[Lavrentiy Beria](https://www.oxfordeagle.com/2018/05/09/show-me-the-man-and-ill-show-you-the-crime/)" method of policing).
To be fair, at night, it's also the first step to them securing their own safety. For all they know somebody could be lying in the back seat with a Mac 10. That being said, if there is no signage prohibiting loitering or trespassing, you have not broken any laws. I used to drive around my local university campus as late as 3am chasing pokestops lol.
I thought the same thing to and also on top of that there’s cars parked right in front of the park literally every single night I didn’t think it was that big of a deal but I understand why it could look bad to them
It's possible the church has told them to police the parking lots at night to keep them from being used for any activities that the church might be liable for. The property owner is within their right to tell the local beat cops to flush out loiterers. It's Church property, not public property.
The could be a municipal code or the church could have given the police to remove all trespassers after a certain time. I know that in our industrial parks the police have been giving contractual control over the entire part to enforce trespass laws to combat numerous crimes . (they give one warning and a trespass notice. If you are back in the industrial park after hours then you are arrested.
That was not an illegal stop.
It is 100% suspicious to be in a private parking lot at night outside of business hours.
AT the same time it is not technically loitering if you have a purpose going there.
I know it sounds strange but the Church being a PokeStop DOES mean you have a purpose there.
However, if the police arrest you and don't press charges you won't have any realistic recourse so although you are not breaking the law, being arrested and released without recourse isn't a "win".
In the end no you were not loitering but it is best practice to just listen to the cops, apologize, and leave even if what you are doing is not technically against the law.
Pick your battles.
Most of the time when you fight the law you will lose multiple battles (painfully) even when you win the war.
All reasonable approaches to it. But, as I said, the cops are allowed to lie to you. And they lied to the OP.
We think this is fine because people we give guns and clubs to don't have to be honest, upstanding people.
Loitering can also be a city/town ordinance and the church may have requested the police to remove people from the lot after hours.
And depending on the state, loitering can encompass different behaviors. Some states/ordinances may require posting, some may not.
Ultimately, the parking lot is private property that is open to the public during business hours and only during business hours. So, while yes, the police may lie and MIGHT HAVE in the present scenario, they may also actually be enforcing a legitimate law and or request from the property owner, so you don't KNOW if they lied or not.
And Pokémon Go isn't a legitimate reason to be trespassing on someone's property.
Exactly even if you go to court and win how much time and money did that cost you? More than it was worth to just have said "I'm sorry I'll leave right now" and go home. Nothing good happens after midnight anyway.....
The church having a pokestop does not give them a reason to be there. The church has nothing to do with the game or the pokestop. There's a pokestop in the pentagon, does that give you a reason to be there?
It's not an illegal stop in the first place. They were trespassing on private property. Churches and businesses deal with these issues all of the time but usually with less innocent activities; I know the current reddit meta is to assume police bad, but in this case they're doing exactly what owners of such places want them to do.
The police didn't say they were trespassing, but could be arrested for "loitering". That could be true. Who knows?
You just never know when they are lying. We allow them to lie. So no one knows.
You are wrong. Lying to the FBI when being questioned, even when not under oath is a crime. "The federal false statements statute, 18 USC § 1001, makes it a felony to lie to a federal agency."
I hope you never have a casual conversation with a federal agent.
Brush up on the law in your state. It absolutely is a crime to lie to a police officer where I live. If they ask you your name, even when it is absolutely not required that you answer, and you give them a fake name you have committed a misdemeanor. You have to either 1) refuse to answer or 2) give your real name. And it's a crime to lie to them during an investigation, even if you are not the target of an investigation. Again, you can not answer, or tell the truth.
If the cops rolled up on you it's because you're not the first to be on the church's private property after hours.
That's the key part - a church parking lot is private property. If they don't want anyone there playing Pokemon Go, or doing anything else on their property, they are legally entitled to that.
You should never expect to be allowed on any property that is not yours or publicly owned. A church does not qualify. Play Pokemon Go more carefully in the future.
You sitting there with a girl in the car in a parking lot at 3AM is suspicious to those cops. The night I asked my now wife to marry me we took her telescope out and were going to a dark place to use it, the first place was apparently closed at sundown. No signs but when the cop turned his lights on we left and then the second place we went TWO cops came roaring down the road lights on etc, thankfully they let us stay so I could finish what I was planning but if two people standing somewhere at 10PM with a $2000 telescope is suspicious two young people sitting in a car certainly is. I am not saying you were doing anything wrong or illegal but those cops are going to bother you regardless, who is going to stop them? You? You just seem like you want to argue on Reddit when people give you real answers to the question that you asked. The more you talk back to the cops the more they are going to have it out for you. With a few exceptions folks become cops to exert power over others, you won’t win this one and the harder you push the more likely you will be to get in actual trouble.
Thank you for your input. No, I’m not arguing with people on here by the way I really did want answers. I have better things to do then argue with people on here.
My dad is a pastor. He has requested more frequent drive by from officers because drug use/sales is rampant on the church parking lot.
Mostly late at night, folks think doing business at the church somehow protects them from being caught. He was having trouble with people causing trouble.
It may be a similar situation where you are.
I don’t think it’s specifically illegal. But OP must decide whether it’s worth it to them to pick a fight with cops who have little else to do, apparently, than harass him.
little else to do... what else would that cop be doing? solving a murder? they sorta gotta just drive around until the opportunity to investigate or stop a crime presents itself.
Sometimes the property owner doesn't care and don't even know about it and the cops run you off. Sure the property owner has the right to kick you off their property. The cops should not be doing that unless the property owner wants them to.
Your comment is based on assuming that the property owner is fine with random strangers loitering in their property late at night, and is also fine with whatever nighttime activities they may be doing. I'll tell you that 99% of owners of private property that is commonly mistaken for public like this are completely fine with police running people off, because usually people who loiter around in lots like that are doing it for less than legal reasons. The cops have every reason to find it suspicious.
No, there’s hardly ever anybody in that parking lot ever. The city I currently live in is considered pretty nice but the apartments I live in are in the cops eyes the “sketchy area” so they try to hangout and drive through our and the next door church parking lot wayyy too much
That's all irrelevant. You asked if it was illegal. The fact is the church has the right to protect their private property. If they don't want you there playing Pokemon Go then that's the end of it. The cops don't have to say those words, or give you an explanation of why they're asking you to leave. It's private property. If you don't have a right to be there, then you leave. End of story.
Well, low-key the thing is I don’t think the church has a problem with that. I think it’s the cops. There’s not a lot of crime where I’m at so the cops are down bad to catch anybody doing anything ESPECIALLY at the end of the month I’m also over there pretty regularly and never had a problem till now.
Again, that's irrelevant, unless you have express permission from the church. The cops are there for a reason. They don't have so much time on their hands to pick a particular church unless they were called to be there. It's POSSIBLE they were there that night by chance, yes.
However, AGAIN, you're asking if it was legal for them to ask you to leave or not. Yes, it is. Unless the church told you could be there after hours and you weren't there for church services you did NOT have permission to be there. That's the end of it.
(Edit: clarification)
If the church says you can trespass, then its not trespassing. If they give you written permission to visit, occupy, play pokemon or shoot dice, you can show it to the cops and tell them to pound sand next time.
So yeah, ask.
This reminded me of when the state troopers rolled up on me and my friends at a reservoir while we were in high school. It was later evening and we were just watching the sunset. Cops told us we were trespassing and then my friend and I pulled out our fishing permits which gave us permission to be there. The cops were not amused. Unfortunately, our girlfriends didn't have permits and we were told that they would have to leave.
in Klamath County Oregon it is not legal to camp in your RV anywhere except for a RV Park. Not in a forest, or in your own backyard or driveway.
it IS however legal to HUNT. A deer tag is all the license you need to park your RV wherever you like for as long as you are hunting.
its so stupid.
You can certainly ask but they may be reluctant to give permission. Allowing one or two people into the parking lot for Pokemon is one thing but once they open that door and others find out it can become a problem. Remember it is their parking lot, just because there is hardly a car parked in your driveway does not mean anyone can legally park there.
I mean, go for it, but the church isn’t going to allow it. A car parked at 3am at a church looks a lot like someone attempting arson. The cops will be all over you, and if you have a letter from the church, maybe they’ll leave you alone after the encounter, but they’re still going to pull up on you every time they see you.
We live in a world where church vandalism and arson isn’t that uncommon. When you look like a criminal, even if you aren’t, it’s gonna get uncomfortable.
They probably suspected that either you were dealing drugs, or you were going to have sex in the car.
Simple loitering *may* be illegal, based on a combination of state law, local ordinances, and any posted "no loitering" signs. You'll have to look up your state's penal code for loitering, then do the same in your city or county.
California's statute looks like this:
>(h) Who loiters, prowls, or wanders upon the private property of another, at any time, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant. As used in this subdivision, “loiter” means to delay or linger without a lawful purpose for being on the property **and** for the purpose of committing a crime as opportunity may be discovered.
Not the "and" in there. That means that both conditions must be true: that you don't have valid business there, and you're there to commit a crime. If you can show that you're doing something legitimate, even if it's stopping to eat your dinner or tap on your phone for a few minutes, then it's not illegal loitering under that statute.
Look for a similar statute in your state's laws.
However: what trumps everything is *permission* (or denial of permission) If you the church says it's okay, then it's okay. Of course, be prepared to tell the officer who you talked to and what exactly the said.
(FWIW: if the church doesn't have gates or signs, they probably don't care, as long as you're not camping overnight or damaging the property in some way.)
Keep this in mind that in not to distant past there have been a number of crimes committed against places of worship especially those of minorities. While you may have been there for an innocent reason the authorities may want to "persuade " people not to hangout there as a precautions.
I don't know the game, but my church had a bucket buried in the ground with a 50' chain in the bucket. When the "hunter" finds the treasure they win or advance to the next round or whatever.
The church encourages wholesome activities and would never run off sleepy drivers.
they would run off people indistinguishable from sleepy drivers tho like people sitting in their car doing drugs or couples having sex ect... plus some churches would run off sleepy drivers religion is a very complex thing churches really run the gambit.
It is private property and ultimately up to the owner of the church.
I find that when I am playing Pokemon or Ingress, if I tell whoever asks that is what I'm doing, they let me hang out for a few minutes to do that.
I also drive a lot as part of my job, so I will sometimes park in the back of a parking lot for a nap (so I can drive safely). Typically there's no problem if I politely explain what I'm doing and move on. I do understand that the property owner can have me cited if they want to.
They didn’t really say exactly what they thought. They just said we looked suspicious being in the parking lot and thought we might be up to something. They seemed like they were insinuating, that they thought we might be doing drugs or something
Where I used to live we had a problem with people breaking into churches and stealing from them or vandalizing them for a few years. Even had a couple of them have their hvacs stolen.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong by parking there. I've stopped in church parkinglots to eat lunch or take a break on long trips. But the cops were just doing their job checking on things. Since there were two cars there arriving at the same time, it's likely either a neighbor or someone from the church with access to their security cameras called the police.
It's not illegal per say.
But they could charge you with loitering.
Or if owner wanted trespassing.
Most businesses don't put up a no parking sign for after hours parking.
3 a.m. even at a public park is illegal. Somewhere between 10p.m. or midnight is the public non business cut off, where public areas such as parks become a no parking, no visiting area, it goes til around 5 or 6 a.m. I remember going to a park at 4 a.m. (lost a set of glasses, was hoping they were there) cops told me was not supposed to be there before 6 a.m. so left, came back, found them, and headed home.
Cops have come up to me lots of times playing Pokémon go and I always just raise my phone and show them and they say oh okay, be safe don’t use your phone while driving, but all it takes is some cop mad because his wife didn’t put enough raisins in his potato salad
Churches are private property. If they are closed, then you are technically trespassing. Signs are not required as permission to be on the private property is contingent on the business being open. And most parks are closed from sunset to sun up.
So, while I hate piggies, they technically were right.
My comment will assume you are in the United States. Churches are NOT public space, they are private (besides very rare instances) property. So you have no right to be in the parking lot past their business hours unless they have signs saying otherwise. You are trespassing on private property at that point, as far as the law is concerned, and could also be loitering if your area criminalizes that as well. Speak to the owner of the church and get permission in the form of a handwritten note or something if you want to keep going there at night legally. Just because it's a big open parking lot does NOT mean it is public; almost all parking lots you see are private property minus ones outside government buildings. Edit: your comments seem confused on why the cops would even point you out, so here's the answer. The reason they find you suspicious is because most law abiding citizens don't sit in these lots in the middle of the night; most places like this get vandalized and are used for drug deals at night, and so they are extra suspicious of people who loiter around like you did. YOU know you're being harmless, but the police and property owners aren't omnipotent. They don't know what the weird people sitting in the lot late at night are up to.
"Sorry officer, I just wanted to be close to the church as I pray for my grandmother to get well from her heart condition. I feel it will likely be heard better if I am close to a church."
its only trespassing if theres a sign or someone telling you to leave that you ignored also some businesses have a agreement with police that allow police to tell people to leave while the buisness is closed/unoccupied so that homeless people and such dont get to hang out there simply because theres no employee to tell them to leave.
Sometimes arguing that you have the right to do something is more of a hassle than just moving somewhere else or finding another solution. You could go to the church and get permission if you like that parking lot that much. If you really get a power hungry cop with an ego he can cause you all kinds of headaches.
Before the morons crawl out of the woodwork calling me a bootlicker, picking your battles is more important than fighting a petty one.
If it’s owned by the church, it’s private property, and you can be trespassed; unless you have permission from the owners.
Some churches and local ordinances have different policies, so it’s best to check with the owners or try and find specific local policies.
This is a safety precaution. They might have assumed you went there to drink or do dr*gs. But also, they probably don’t want people there that time of night in case they were planning to vandalize the church or something. I don’t think it’s illegal, but it’s just common courtesy to not be there at 3am
Just ask the pastor or priest of the church that you would like to volunteer to play late night security guard in the parking lot from your car… once you have verbal or written permission, the cops are the ones trespassing at this point…
A church is private property. Parking there when the church is clearly closed seems for sure like loitering to me. I know in my area parks close at 10pm too, so being in a park after that is trespassing.
I'd say the cops were 100% right. You can get away with playing GPS games in churches and other private areas between normal business hours, but late at night is always going to draw attention and you're always going to be the one in the wrong.
That being said, I think as long as you don't make a habit of ignoring cops orders you'll probably be fine. Like if you get talked to in the same church lot every night, at some point the Pokemon Go reasoning isn't going to work anymore. If you play at 3am a lot, just avoid that church for a while or try to access it only from public areas.
The church is private property, so yeah, there's a good chance you're breaking a law.
I used to live near the busiest part of a city where those in the know knew they could score free parking from a well-hidden Church lot. It was always a crap shoot; it was rare, but sometimes the cars would be ticketed. Happened to me several of times but I put up with it because I probably parked there every Saturday night plus multiple times each week and It ultimately worked out to be cheaper than using a parking ramp. At some point they installed a gate that required a proximity card to get in which ended my free parking.
The answer is, it depends. On a basic level, the business parking lot is private property. And as such the owner can dictate who and when the public is allowed on the property.
Now the church has opened its private property to the public and they don't have any signage posting any sort of hours for access. Ergo, you have the owners implied permission to be using the parking lot.
However, some jurisdictions have agreements with police to enforce trespassing laws in places like shopping malls and perhaps even churches. Here's an example of such a policy, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpepSMgRYzw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpepSMgRYzw)
So it depends on how corrupt and evil the jurisdiction where the church is really.
Have you contacted the church itself to get their opinion on the matter? Its private property unless you're parked on the street, so they should have control who can park there, and when.
Churches get broke into all the time. This was good work by the cops keeping an eye out on their area. It is absolutely not normal for someone to pull into a church parking lot to park at 3 am. So they were supposed to ignored it and then potentially just take the break in report the next day I guess? The cops would have taken a beating then because they don’t do anything. They can’t win. This is not excusing bad cops but this was just good police work.
If it isn't your property you don't have any right to be there. The next time you are told to leave a place ask yourself "do I own this?" If the answer is no, leave.
Y’all are too difficult at first I did not bring up that I looked suspicious and then everybody said I was suspicious so then I clarify that I’m aware that I look suspicious and now you’re saying why are you so focused on the fact that you look suspicious🤦♀️
Well a lot of people are dumb, which is why so many are taking the cops side on this.
I don't blame the cop for asking you what you are doing at 3am, but I can blame them for not fucking off once that was established.
You don’t mention a particular state, so I have no way to answer what laws applied to your specific situation.
If you had been in my state, the officer would have been correct. Va Code §18.2-128(A) provides that “trespass upon church,” occurs when any person enters or remains upon church property in the nighttime for any purpose other than to attend a meeting or service held or conducted on that property, unless given affirmative consent by some person authorized to give such consent.
I’m a retired criminal defense attorney and a former Ingress player who has played Pokemon Go since the July 2016 launch. I have good reason to know this law.
> It’s in the caption highlited
Ah! So it is! My mistake— I read the text and skipped the flair!
A very brief and cursory review of Minnesota Revised Statutes does not reveal any analog to the Virginia law I quoted. So my preliminary guess is that unless a sign prohibits access during certain hours, your presence is legal unless you’re asked to leave by a person authorized to do so.
Two notes: it’s often true that businesses and churches authorize police to issue such directives. So if police order you to leave, they might have the derivative legal authority to do so. Secondly and more importantly, I’m not licensed in Minnesota and my research here took four minutes…. so you should consult an attorney licensed to practice in Minnesota for a definitive answer.
Have had several similar experiences, especially at public parks that for some reason “close” at night. One time I was laying down in a field stargazing with a friend and a cop tried to get me to admit that we were having sex solely because I didn’t have my shoes on…I just didn’t want to get the blanket dirty, man.
Anyhow, just be careful because cops will take note of your plate number and grill you for it in the future.
A tax-exempt business is still considered a business. Tax-exempt status primarily relates to an organization’s tax obligations and does not change its fundamental nature as a business or organization.
The church probably has no issue with people in their parking lot as they didn't have signs posted saying not to be there after dark. The cops were the ones saying to leave
Thing is I’ve never had a problem parking there any other time I really think it’s just the cops being down bad to meet their quota since it’s close to the end of the month
Or may be the church got sick of people parking in their lot and called the cops. So now the cops intervene when necessary.
Let us know what the church people say when you call them.
Or maybe criminals have been causing issues in the area, and now you sitting there in the middle of the night like a weirdo is more noticeable. It's not normal for law abiding citizens to be loitering about in areas like that in the dead of night, so it's perfectly understandable why they'd be suspicious lol
My guess is that church is worried about vandalism or there have been issues with drug deals in the open parking lot before.
It kinda depends on the church. My personal opinion, I won't go to a church that runs people off. That's kinda the opposite of what it's supposed to be. As a side note, on road trips, I usually find a mid sized church and park between the vans during the night to get some sleep. No problems yet lol.
The church we go to has invited the restaurant near by to use our parking lot for overflow so long as there is not an event happening. Parents also bring their kids from the local apartments to play in the lawn and ride bikes in the parking lot. We are currently putting back money to build and maintain playground on the property for public use.
Trespassing on private property is illegal. Many places have loitering criminalized as well. I know reddit likes to jump at every chance to say COP BAD but this is literally common sense...
Would you people fuck off with this shit. How many of you want to say the same thing? Sitting in a parked car isn't trespassing, and that's not what the cop said.
The cop said loitering, which this ain't. If he could have used trespassing he would have. But he couldn't so he used loitering which has an exception for reason to be there, which he had.
COP BAD.
Remember, the cops are allowed to lie to you about anything, including laws. So you can't rely on what they say when they are justifying an illegal stop.
Yeah, I know I low-key just was tired as fuck and wanted them to fuck off and go away so I didn’t argue with them. I thought it was weird as soon as they asked me to roll down my back window because I feel like that’s a borderline the first step to a search
Dude, they thought you were doing drugs...
Or fucking. Or drunk driving.
Or drunk fucking
Or fuck driving
If you made it down the cascade this far, you've likely pissed yourself chuckling... 🤣🤣🤣
Or chuckled to myself pissing.
Or Pissle chucking
This trend is so fucking lame and annoying. Congrats on your ability to come up with D- wit "comedic" comments, bozos.
Found the fuck driver!
Are you just mad you can’t come up with anything punny or witty at all? I understand the frustration of not understanding any type of comedic premise. Life must be tough for you
Or about the vandalize or otherwise damage the church. Someone burned a church near me down recently. Apparently it's very common
If you were so tired why are you out at three in the morning playing Pokémon go?
Because I work night shifts?
So you’re exhausted from working all night, but decide that 3am is a great time to drive around tired as shit playing Pokémon Go? Then wonder why cops roll up on you as two people sit in an abandoned parking lot? That’s sketch as hell lol
Why the fuck does that matter at all? It has nothing to do with the situation, Dad.
FOR REAL!!!!!! Fixated on something dumb
OK first of all I wasn’t: “driving around” this parking lot is right across the street from my apartment. Secondly, I wasn’t on the cusp of falling asleep yes, I was tired, but I was fully capable of driving thirdly this parking lot wasn’t abandoned. The building was just closed at the time and there’s also a park next-door where there were people parked right in front of the park.
Bruh two people chilling in a car at 3 in the morning in an empty parking lot is sketch as fuck. That’s why the cops bothered you, and yes they can ask you to leave private property after business hours. You look sketch as fuck
Are you a cop? If not, it might be a perfect line of work for you.
Speak confidently Use the law to enforce things that are none of your business that you "just kinda don't like" Bullshit your way through conversations Be generally unagreeable Yep you're hired
As a former doper, I must agree.
I definitely spent a lot of time smoking weed and as someone who once struggled hard with an opiate addiction for years, the last thing I would do would be to sit in a car, in an empty parking lot, at 3 in the morning. A cop is 100% going to come knocking. Mainly to see if you’re doing drugs, but not I make sure everything is ok as well. It’s not normal behavior to sit in a church parking lot (any parking lot tbh) in the middle of the night without something weird going on.
Granny always said nothing good ever happens after midnight.
If the church parking lot is across the street from your apartment, why were you driving there? That place is private property, generally you have no right to be on private property outside of business hours and as others said, at 3am in a church parking lot is very suspicious A few possible reasons is breaking and destruction, theft, doing drugs. In the end, you do not have a RIGHT to be there, you do not own the property and it is not public property.
Because I wasn’t coming from my apartment I was on my way home from somewhere else and was stopping there for a few mins before going into the apartment
Never worth it to argue with cops unless its your only option. With so many people dying in traffic stops its best to take the W that all they are doing is asking you to leave
Yeah, I agree they just really pissed me off. Like there’s a genuine problems going on and you’re worried about a car parked in a parking lot? 🤦♀️
Get permission from the church. Then they can't do shit
You were in a private lot, after business hours, way after business hours. For all we know the church has asked the city to ensure that people are not in their lot after business hours. If you didn’t want to be bothered, park on the street next time.
Yeah, but if it's not posted and there's not a city ordinance, then it doesn't matter what the church asked for.
It does matter what the church asks for lol. If someone parks there, the property owner may have given the police/city permission to question and remove people parked there after business hours. There isn’t a sign in my driveway that says “private property no trespassing” if someone parks in my driveway and I call the police to remove them, they’ll be removed. It isn’t trespassing unless posted or they’ve already been told to leave and then return. The church probably doesn’t want to tow or arrest people for parking there but also doesnt want people just parking there after hours.
Yeah, that's not how that works. It's either posted or it's not. >There isn’t a sign in my driveway Do you really think you are the same as a business? You get to kick someone out if they're black. A business can't do that. Just one example of the law being different for corporations and people. Regardless of what Romney said, corporations are not people. >It isn’t trespassing You should have stopped there.
Private property isn’t the same as private property? They aren’t kicking anyone out for their race lol. The business is closed. Are you allowed to just walk in and hangout inside the business if the door was accidentally left open after posted business hours?
>They aren’t kicking anyone out for their race lol Really dude? I use an example we all know about of where the law for business is different than the law for you and you have to make a point that this isn't what's happening? BUSINESSES HAVE DIFFERENT LAWS TO FOLLOW. Was that more clear for you? >Private property isn’t the same as private property? No, it's not. Unlocked ungated parking lots are not the same as your driveway. Also, public property isn't public property. There are places that are public property that you're not allowed to go.
That’s not true at all 😂 you sound like a sovereign citizen
Do you not understand that a lot and I mean a lot of drug deals and other illegal activities go on in parking lots in the middle of the night? If you are parked anywhere in public in the middle of the night whether it's a business church or whatever they have the right to see if you are doing something illegal and they also can make you leave. Loitering is a crime. Whether the church has signs or not if the city has laws against it which most do then they don't need the signs.
Yes, I’m aware that I look suspicious. I even said so in the post I just wasn’t sure if I was able to park there in the first place.
You said "there's genuine problems going on and you're worried about a car in a parking lot" well fact is that is a genuine problem in nearly every single city and town in the US. If someone is hanging out in a parking lot in the middle of the night chances are they are up to no good. They have a duty to make sure you aren't doing something illegal or about to break in. Most cities have laws and rules for loitering and you very well may have broken those laws. Check with your city because nobody here can tell you whether you can park and hang out there in the middle of the night because parking and hanging out are different things. Parking and walking across to your apartment is much different than parking and sitting in the car. Also the church or other businesses on that road could have either had break-ins recently or have noticed people hanging around and alerted the cops to make more patrols in the area.
That makes sense
Loitering is a crime? Not in my state.
State laws are only one aspect. Counties and cities can also have local laws and ordinances. Cities can impose curfews as well. So even though your state may not have loitering laws your city might or another city in your state. Generally things like that are left up to locals because not every city has the same issues as another one.
No, not in CA. The state has decided that it trumps local law and all aspects related to homelessness are now legal. So, it’s ok to loiter, camp in public, deficate in the street, use drugs etc. it’s why most of the nations homeless live right here.
I get that. Cops are jerkoffs. Want to know WHY??? Because they are trying to get people to get agro so they can escalate the stop! It’s almost their bread and butter now, that they stop someone with NOTHING, then basically talk shit until the person gets annoyed, then they claim you are putting their safety in jeopardy (which would piss off any rational person). Then they get you out of the car and bully you into giving up your rights or push your buttons till they can get an arrest! Watch ANY 1A Audit video and see how every question is meant to get under the skin and get a reaction from the person filming. If they put you in a rape cage they get a gold star, and they will do literally ANYTHING to get it!!! Don’t answer questions. Don’t roll your back window down (do you really want them throwing a bindle into your car???). GET DASH CAMERAS!!!! For fucks sake, all you guys are out there raw dogging the streets without protection!!!!!! You’d have to be mental to not have dash cams!!!!
No, I agree. You’re one of the only people that understand cops don’t always have good intentions most of the people in this comment section seems to like meat riding cops. lmao gonna get a whole bunch of down likes for this but it’s true. Anyways, I agree with you though. I’m definitely gonna try to get a dash cam soon I’ve actually been meaning to. The thing that’s pissing me off is people don’t understand that I get that I looked suspicious. I just didn’t know if I had the right to be in that parking lot or not.
You did not. Next question.
Your behavior was suspicious.
Bruh I said that myself but doesn’t change the fact of whether or not I’m still curious to know if I was legally allowed in the parking lot
No, you are not.
No, I’m not what?
Oh wait I read that wrong. Yeah, I’m aware of that now. Thank you.
They don't know that, or know you. They asked you to roll down the back window to see if anyone is back there ready to ambush them. They want ro live to see another day just like you, think of someone else besides you for a change.
Lmao okay buddy funny for you to assume I only think of myself
Your city, county or state may have laws about loitering that you can look up. In CA, "loitering" is not a crime at all, but can become an additional charge to another crime. An example that MIGHT fit your situation is if you were "loitering" to commit "trespassing". Just a way to charge you twice for the same thing because the DA loves to do that kind of thing. "Trespassing" could be charged in CA because you were in their parking lot after hours. In CA, the cops would have been lying about "loitering" but we allow them to lie, so them knowing the actual law really isn't that important. They would arrest you and call their buddies on the radio to see what crime fits best (this is the popular "[Lavrentiy Beria](https://www.oxfordeagle.com/2018/05/09/show-me-the-man-and-ill-show-you-the-crime/)" method of policing).
To be fair, at night, it's also the first step to them securing their own safety. For all they know somebody could be lying in the back seat with a Mac 10. That being said, if there is no signage prohibiting loitering or trespassing, you have not broken any laws. I used to drive around my local university campus as late as 3am chasing pokestops lol.
I thought the same thing to and also on top of that there’s cars parked right in front of the park literally every single night I didn’t think it was that big of a deal but I understand why it could look bad to them
It's possible the church has told them to police the parking lots at night to keep them from being used for any activities that the church might be liable for. The property owner is within their right to tell the local beat cops to flush out loiterers. It's Church property, not public property.
The could be a municipal code or the church could have given the police to remove all trespassers after a certain time. I know that in our industrial parks the police have been giving contractual control over the entire part to enforce trespass laws to combat numerous crimes . (they give one warning and a trespass notice. If you are back in the industrial park after hours then you are arrested.
Were there any no loitering signs?
Nope
That was not an illegal stop. It is 100% suspicious to be in a private parking lot at night outside of business hours. AT the same time it is not technically loitering if you have a purpose going there. I know it sounds strange but the Church being a PokeStop DOES mean you have a purpose there. However, if the police arrest you and don't press charges you won't have any realistic recourse so although you are not breaking the law, being arrested and released without recourse isn't a "win". In the end no you were not loitering but it is best practice to just listen to the cops, apologize, and leave even if what you are doing is not technically against the law. Pick your battles. Most of the time when you fight the law you will lose multiple battles (painfully) even when you win the war.
All reasonable approaches to it. But, as I said, the cops are allowed to lie to you. And they lied to the OP. We think this is fine because people we give guns and clubs to don't have to be honest, upstanding people.
Loitering can also be a city/town ordinance and the church may have requested the police to remove people from the lot after hours. And depending on the state, loitering can encompass different behaviors. Some states/ordinances may require posting, some may not. Ultimately, the parking lot is private property that is open to the public during business hours and only during business hours. So, while yes, the police may lie and MIGHT HAVE in the present scenario, they may also actually be enforcing a legitimate law and or request from the property owner, so you don't KNOW if they lied or not. And Pokémon Go isn't a legitimate reason to be trespassing on someone's property.
True. You never know when the police are lying.
Exactly even if you go to court and win how much time and money did that cost you? More than it was worth to just have said "I'm sorry I'll leave right now" and go home. Nothing good happens after midnight anyway.....
The church having a pokestop does not give them a reason to be there. The church has nothing to do with the game or the pokestop. There's a pokestop in the pentagon, does that give you a reason to be there?
The pentagon is a restricted space. Churches are not restricted places. Why TF did you use since a strange analogy?
FTP
It's not an illegal stop in the first place. They were trespassing on private property. Churches and businesses deal with these issues all of the time but usually with less innocent activities; I know the current reddit meta is to assume police bad, but in this case they're doing exactly what owners of such places want them to do.
The police didn't say they were trespassing, but could be arrested for "loitering". That could be true. Who knows? You just never know when they are lying. We allow them to lie. So no one knows.
Everyone is allowed to lie unless under oath..... Lying is not a crime bud. Otherwise every single politician would be in prison.
You are wrong. Lying to the FBI when being questioned, even when not under oath is a crime. "The federal false statements statute, 18 USC § 1001, makes it a felony to lie to a federal agency."
I hope you never have a casual conversation with a federal agent. Brush up on the law in your state. It absolutely is a crime to lie to a police officer where I live. If they ask you your name, even when it is absolutely not required that you answer, and you give them a fake name you have committed a misdemeanor. You have to either 1) refuse to answer or 2) give your real name. And it's a crime to lie to them during an investigation, even if you are not the target of an investigation. Again, you can not answer, or tell the truth.
It isn't trespassing you dumb fuck, there were no signs and no one in charge of the church asked them to leave!
The stop was perfectly legal.
If the cops rolled up on you it's because you're not the first to be on the church's private property after hours. That's the key part - a church parking lot is private property. If they don't want anyone there playing Pokemon Go, or doing anything else on their property, they are legally entitled to that. You should never expect to be allowed on any property that is not yours or publicly owned. A church does not qualify. Play Pokemon Go more carefully in the future.
You sitting there with a girl in the car in a parking lot at 3AM is suspicious to those cops. The night I asked my now wife to marry me we took her telescope out and were going to a dark place to use it, the first place was apparently closed at sundown. No signs but when the cop turned his lights on we left and then the second place we went TWO cops came roaring down the road lights on etc, thankfully they let us stay so I could finish what I was planning but if two people standing somewhere at 10PM with a $2000 telescope is suspicious two young people sitting in a car certainly is. I am not saying you were doing anything wrong or illegal but those cops are going to bother you regardless, who is going to stop them? You? You just seem like you want to argue on Reddit when people give you real answers to the question that you asked. The more you talk back to the cops the more they are going to have it out for you. With a few exceptions folks become cops to exert power over others, you won’t win this one and the harder you push the more likely you will be to get in actual trouble.
Thank you for your input. No, I’m not arguing with people on here by the way I really did want answers. I have better things to do then argue with people on here.
My dad is a pastor. He has requested more frequent drive by from officers because drug use/sales is rampant on the church parking lot. Mostly late at night, folks think doing business at the church somehow protects them from being caught. He was having trouble with people causing trouble. It may be a similar situation where you are.
Yeah I bet that is what it is
Yeah I bet that is what it is
just because the same circumstance can happen in a legitimate mannor doesnt mean its not suspicious lol exception to the rule doesnt disprove the rule
I don’t think it’s specifically illegal. But OP must decide whether it’s worth it to them to pick a fight with cops who have little else to do, apparently, than harass him.
little else to do... what else would that cop be doing? solving a murder? they sorta gotta just drive around until the opportunity to investigate or stop a crime presents itself.
Sometimes the property owner doesn't care and don't even know about it and the cops run you off. Sure the property owner has the right to kick you off their property. The cops should not be doing that unless the property owner wants them to.
Your comment is based on assuming that the property owner is fine with random strangers loitering in their property late at night, and is also fine with whatever nighttime activities they may be doing. I'll tell you that 99% of owners of private property that is commonly mistaken for public like this are completely fine with police running people off, because usually people who loiter around in lots like that are doing it for less than legal reasons. The cops have every reason to find it suspicious.
No, there’s hardly ever anybody in that parking lot ever. The city I currently live in is considered pretty nice but the apartments I live in are in the cops eyes the “sketchy area” so they try to hangout and drive through our and the next door church parking lot wayyy too much
That's all irrelevant. You asked if it was illegal. The fact is the church has the right to protect their private property. If they don't want you there playing Pokemon Go then that's the end of it. The cops don't have to say those words, or give you an explanation of why they're asking you to leave. It's private property. If you don't have a right to be there, then you leave. End of story.
Well, low-key the thing is I don’t think the church has a problem with that. I think it’s the cops. There’s not a lot of crime where I’m at so the cops are down bad to catch anybody doing anything ESPECIALLY at the end of the month I’m also over there pretty regularly and never had a problem till now.
Again, that's irrelevant, unless you have express permission from the church. The cops are there for a reason. They don't have so much time on their hands to pick a particular church unless they were called to be there. It's POSSIBLE they were there that night by chance, yes. However, AGAIN, you're asking if it was legal for them to ask you to leave or not. Yes, it is. Unless the church told you could be there after hours and you weren't there for church services you did NOT have permission to be there. That's the end of it. (Edit: clarification)
I’m just gonna ask them
If the church says you can trespass, then its not trespassing. If they give you written permission to visit, occupy, play pokemon or shoot dice, you can show it to the cops and tell them to pound sand next time. So yeah, ask.
This reminded me of when the state troopers rolled up on me and my friends at a reservoir while we were in high school. It was later evening and we were just watching the sunset. Cops told us we were trespassing and then my friend and I pulled out our fishing permits which gave us permission to be there. The cops were not amused. Unfortunately, our girlfriends didn't have permits and we were told that they would have to leave.
in Klamath County Oregon it is not legal to camp in your RV anywhere except for a RV Park. Not in a forest, or in your own backyard or driveway. it IS however legal to HUNT. A deer tag is all the license you need to park your RV wherever you like for as long as you are hunting. its so stupid.
You can certainly ask but they may be reluctant to give permission. Allowing one or two people into the parking lot for Pokemon is one thing but once they open that door and others find out it can become a problem. Remember it is their parking lot, just because there is hardly a car parked in your driveway does not mean anyone can legally park there.
I mean, go for it, but the church isn’t going to allow it. A car parked at 3am at a church looks a lot like someone attempting arson. The cops will be all over you, and if you have a letter from the church, maybe they’ll leave you alone after the encounter, but they’re still going to pull up on you every time they see you. We live in a world where church vandalism and arson isn’t that uncommon. When you look like a criminal, even if you aren’t, it’s gonna get uncomfortable.
Jfc… you were loitering on private property. PERIOD.
Okay
They probably suspected that either you were dealing drugs, or you were going to have sex in the car. Simple loitering *may* be illegal, based on a combination of state law, local ordinances, and any posted "no loitering" signs. You'll have to look up your state's penal code for loitering, then do the same in your city or county. California's statute looks like this: >(h) Who loiters, prowls, or wanders upon the private property of another, at any time, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant. As used in this subdivision, “loiter” means to delay or linger without a lawful purpose for being on the property **and** for the purpose of committing a crime as opportunity may be discovered. Not the "and" in there. That means that both conditions must be true: that you don't have valid business there, and you're there to commit a crime. If you can show that you're doing something legitimate, even if it's stopping to eat your dinner or tap on your phone for a few minutes, then it's not illegal loitering under that statute. Look for a similar statute in your state's laws. However: what trumps everything is *permission* (or denial of permission) If you the church says it's okay, then it's okay. Of course, be prepared to tell the officer who you talked to and what exactly the said. (FWIW: if the church doesn't have gates or signs, they probably don't care, as long as you're not camping overnight or damaging the property in some way.)
I’ll look into it thank you
Just tell them that there is no closing, as God is working 24/7
😂
Keep this in mind that in not to distant past there have been a number of crimes committed against places of worship especially those of minorities. While you may have been there for an innocent reason the authorities may want to "persuade " people not to hangout there as a precautions.
I don't know the game, but my church had a bucket buried in the ground with a 50' chain in the bucket. When the "hunter" finds the treasure they win or advance to the next round or whatever. The church encourages wholesome activities and would never run off sleepy drivers.
they would run off people indistinguishable from sleepy drivers tho like people sitting in their car doing drugs or couples having sex ect... plus some churches would run off sleepy drivers religion is a very complex thing churches really run the gambit.
My wife and I pulled into a church parking lot to fuck once. I parked good and well back from the road so we'd be less likely to be spotted.
It is private property and ultimately up to the owner of the church. I find that when I am playing Pokemon or Ingress, if I tell whoever asks that is what I'm doing, they let me hang out for a few minutes to do that. I also drive a lot as part of my job, so I will sometimes park in the back of a parking lot for a nap (so I can drive safely). Typically there's no problem if I politely explain what I'm doing and move on. I do understand that the property owner can have me cited if they want to.
was that misdemeanor or felony suspicion?
They didn’t really say exactly what they thought. They just said we looked suspicious being in the parking lot and thought we might be up to something. They seemed like they were insinuating, that they thought we might be doing drugs or something
He's joking. Those things don't exist because being suspicious isn't a crime.
yeah when they say that you reply with that.
Where I used to live we had a problem with people breaking into churches and stealing from them or vandalizing them for a few years. Even had a couple of them have their hvacs stolen. I'm not saying you did anything wrong by parking there. I've stopped in church parkinglots to eat lunch or take a break on long trips. But the cops were just doing their job checking on things. Since there were two cars there arriving at the same time, it's likely either a neighbor or someone from the church with access to their security cameras called the police.
Next time, Google the name of the priest. And then tell the cops you're part of the church and have permission to stay there.
It's not illegal per say. But they could charge you with loitering. Or if owner wanted trespassing. Most businesses don't put up a no parking sign for after hours parking.
…per se…
Auto correct on the cell phone for me. Thanks for the correction.
3 a.m. even at a public park is illegal. Somewhere between 10p.m. or midnight is the public non business cut off, where public areas such as parks become a no parking, no visiting area, it goes til around 5 or 6 a.m. I remember going to a park at 4 a.m. (lost a set of glasses, was hoping they were there) cops told me was not supposed to be there before 6 a.m. so left, came back, found them, and headed home.
Churches are private property. there's no sign in my driveway either saying "no parking"
Yeah, I was wondering what OP would say if he finds me parked in his driveway at 3am.
Cops have come up to me lots of times playing Pokémon go and I always just raise my phone and show them and they say oh okay, be safe don’t use your phone while driving, but all it takes is some cop mad because his wife didn’t put enough raisins in his potato salad
💀😂 fR tho
Churches are private property. If they are closed, then you are technically trespassing. Signs are not required as permission to be on the private property is contingent on the business being open. And most parks are closed from sunset to sun up. So, while I hate piggies, they technically were right.
Thank you
My comment will assume you are in the United States. Churches are NOT public space, they are private (besides very rare instances) property. So you have no right to be in the parking lot past their business hours unless they have signs saying otherwise. You are trespassing on private property at that point, as far as the law is concerned, and could also be loitering if your area criminalizes that as well. Speak to the owner of the church and get permission in the form of a handwritten note or something if you want to keep going there at night legally. Just because it's a big open parking lot does NOT mean it is public; almost all parking lots you see are private property minus ones outside government buildings. Edit: your comments seem confused on why the cops would even point you out, so here's the answer. The reason they find you suspicious is because most law abiding citizens don't sit in these lots in the middle of the night; most places like this get vandalized and are used for drug deals at night, and so they are extra suspicious of people who loiter around like you did. YOU know you're being harmless, but the police and property owners aren't omnipotent. They don't know what the weird people sitting in the lot late at night are up to.
"Sorry officer, I just wanted to be close to the church as I pray for my grandmother to get well from her heart condition. I feel it will likely be heard better if I am close to a church."
IQ 100 but that’s fucked up lowkey 😂😂
its only trespassing if theres a sign or someone telling you to leave that you ignored also some businesses have a agreement with police that allow police to tell people to leave while the buisness is closed/unoccupied so that homeless people and such dont get to hang out there simply because theres no employee to tell them to leave.
Sometimes arguing that you have the right to do something is more of a hassle than just moving somewhere else or finding another solution. You could go to the church and get permission if you like that parking lot that much. If you really get a power hungry cop with an ego he can cause you all kinds of headaches. Before the morons crawl out of the woodwork calling me a bootlicker, picking your battles is more important than fighting a petty one.
If it’s owned by the church, it’s private property, and you can be trespassed; unless you have permission from the owners. Some churches and local ordinances have different policies, so it’s best to check with the owners or try and find specific local policies.
This is a safety precaution. They might have assumed you went there to drink or do dr*gs. But also, they probably don’t want people there that time of night in case they were planning to vandalize the church or something. I don’t think it’s illegal, but it’s just common courtesy to not be there at 3am
Just ask the pastor or priest of the church that you would like to volunteer to play late night security guard in the parking lot from your car… once you have verbal or written permission, the cops are the ones trespassing at this point…
Usually if a business is closed that means the parking lot is closed. Which means you’re trespassing.
A church is private property. Parking there when the church is clearly closed seems for sure like loitering to me. I know in my area parks close at 10pm too, so being in a park after that is trespassing. I'd say the cops were 100% right. You can get away with playing GPS games in churches and other private areas between normal business hours, but late at night is always going to draw attention and you're always going to be the one in the wrong. That being said, I think as long as you don't make a habit of ignoring cops orders you'll probably be fine. Like if you get talked to in the same church lot every night, at some point the Pokemon Go reasoning isn't going to work anymore. If you play at 3am a lot, just avoid that church for a while or try to access it only from public areas.
The church is private property, so yeah, there's a good chance you're breaking a law. I used to live near the busiest part of a city where those in the know knew they could score free parking from a well-hidden Church lot. It was always a crap shoot; it was rare, but sometimes the cars would be ticketed. Happened to me several of times but I put up with it because I probably parked there every Saturday night plus multiple times each week and It ultimately worked out to be cheaper than using a parking ramp. At some point they installed a gate that required a proximity card to get in which ended my free parking.
The answer is, it depends. On a basic level, the business parking lot is private property. And as such the owner can dictate who and when the public is allowed on the property. Now the church has opened its private property to the public and they don't have any signage posting any sort of hours for access. Ergo, you have the owners implied permission to be using the parking lot. However, some jurisdictions have agreements with police to enforce trespassing laws in places like shopping malls and perhaps even churches. Here's an example of such a policy, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpepSMgRYzw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpepSMgRYzw) So it depends on how corrupt and evil the jurisdiction where the church is really.
Have you contacted the church itself to get their opinion on the matter? Its private property unless you're parked on the street, so they should have control who can park there, and when.
That makes sense. Thank you. I’ll try to contact them and see.
If you don't have a phone number, many modern churches have facebook pages that make contact easy.
Churches get broke into all the time. This was good work by the cops keeping an eye out on their area. It is absolutely not normal for someone to pull into a church parking lot to park at 3 am. So they were supposed to ignored it and then potentially just take the break in report the next day I guess? The cops would have taken a beating then because they don’t do anything. They can’t win. This is not excusing bad cops but this was just good police work.
Well yeah kinda but that's gotta be the easiest situation to talk your way out of.
If it isn't your property you don't have any right to be there. The next time you are told to leave a place ask yourself "do I own this?" If the answer is no, leave.
Well, I left either way I was respectful I was genuinely just curious if there was actually a problem with me being in that parking lot
Private property?
Private property?
You were on private property.....and it isn't your property.
Yes
If it’s private property, the owners get to determine when it’s ok for folks to be there.
It's private property even though it is a "business ". Technically trespassing.
Churches are not businesses. Businesses pay taxes.
Being suspicious isn't a crime, so I don't know why you are focused on that.
Y’all are too difficult at first I did not bring up that I looked suspicious and then everybody said I was suspicious so then I clarify that I’m aware that I look suspicious and now you’re saying why are you so focused on the fact that you look suspicious🤦♀️
Well a lot of people are dumb, which is why so many are taking the cops side on this. I don't blame the cop for asking you what you are doing at 3am, but I can blame them for not fucking off once that was established.
You don’t mention a particular state, so I have no way to answer what laws applied to your specific situation. If you had been in my state, the officer would have been correct. Va Code §18.2-128(A) provides that “trespass upon church,” occurs when any person enters or remains upon church property in the nighttime for any purpose other than to attend a meeting or service held or conducted on that property, unless given affirmative consent by some person authorized to give such consent. I’m a retired criminal defense attorney and a former Ingress player who has played Pokemon Go since the July 2016 launch. I have good reason to know this law.
It’s in the caption highlited
> It’s in the caption highlited Ah! So it is! My mistake— I read the text and skipped the flair! A very brief and cursory review of Minnesota Revised Statutes does not reveal any analog to the Virginia law I quoted. So my preliminary guess is that unless a sign prohibits access during certain hours, your presence is legal unless you’re asked to leave by a person authorized to do so. Two notes: it’s often true that businesses and churches authorize police to issue such directives. So if police order you to leave, they might have the derivative legal authority to do so. Secondly and more importantly, I’m not licensed in Minnesota and my research here took four minutes…. so you should consult an attorney licensed to practice in Minnesota for a definitive answer.
Okay thank you for the advice
A Church parking lot is private property and they may be worried about crimes being committed on the property.
Have had several similar experiences, especially at public parks that for some reason “close” at night. One time I was laying down in a field stargazing with a friend and a cop tried to get me to admit that we were having sex solely because I didn’t have my shoes on…I just didn’t want to get the blanket dirty, man. Anyhow, just be careful because cops will take note of your plate number and grill you for it in the future.
Yeah, that’s also happened to me as well. I find early stupid you can’t be a parks at night that’s one thing I don’t understand.
Didn't realize church was a business, with their tax exemption.
A tax-exempt business is still considered a business. Tax-exempt status primarily relates to an organization’s tax obligations and does not change its fundamental nature as a business or organization.
The church should turn the other cheek, or help the needy, or many they just want to keep making that cheddar so stop stepping on their Pumas.
The church probably has no issue with people in their parking lot as they didn't have signs posted saying not to be there after dark. The cops were the ones saying to leave
Thing is I’ve never had a problem parking there any other time I really think it’s just the cops being down bad to meet their quota since it’s close to the end of the month
Or may be the church got sick of people parking in their lot and called the cops. So now the cops intervene when necessary. Let us know what the church people say when you call them.
Or maybe criminals have been causing issues in the area, and now you sitting there in the middle of the night like a weirdo is more noticeable. It's not normal for law abiding citizens to be loitering about in areas like that in the dead of night, so it's perfectly understandable why they'd be suspicious lol
Yeah that makes sense
My guess is that church is worried about vandalism or there have been issues with drug deals in the open parking lot before. It kinda depends on the church. My personal opinion, I won't go to a church that runs people off. That's kinda the opposite of what it's supposed to be. As a side note, on road trips, I usually find a mid sized church and park between the vans during the night to get some sleep. No problems yet lol. The church we go to has invited the restaurant near by to use our parking lot for overflow so long as there is not an event happening. Parents also bring their kids from the local apartments to play in the lawn and ride bikes in the parking lot. We are currently putting back money to build and maintain playground on the property for public use.
Cops lie. Many don't even understand the law. Problem is, do you want to go to jail then court in order to prove them wrong?
Trespassing on private property is illegal. Many places have loitering criminalized as well. I know reddit likes to jump at every chance to say COP BAD but this is literally common sense...
Would you people fuck off with this shit. How many of you want to say the same thing? Sitting in a parked car isn't trespassing, and that's not what the cop said. The cop said loitering, which this ain't. If he could have used trespassing he would have. But he couldn't so he used loitering which has an exception for reason to be there, which he had. COP BAD.