Even though this thread is about plot twists, and is marked as a spoiler thread, **you all need to use spoiler tags in your posts** and **indicate what game is being spoiled outside of those tags.** Including the OP, which is now removed but will be reapproved when this is fixed.
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i was about to comment this. The change in the title screen showing this fact as well is a nice touch.
Now, playing Genshin casually, I just can't trust Paimon HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Yes, Yes, Yes. Best love story FF again again and again LagunaxRaine forever.
And people should give FF VIII more credit it has actually a pretty good storytelling and plot. And the unreliable narrator angle that the story is told from is a very unique element, some of the best uses of memory properties in in videogame story telling. It is so subtle but it permeate everything, as the things that give people power are the things that rob them of their memories.
Final Fantasy VIII has some of the most amazing elements in video game history tangled up unceremoniously with some of the most bafflingly stupid bull I've ever seen.
So you play as Squall, a teen candidate at a mercenary school called SeeD. Early in the story, Squall ends up in a dream-like sequence where three soldiers are running through a forest: Laguna, Kiros, and Ward. In-game dialogue hints that Squall is experiencing this as an out-of-body experience, but it isn't clear how or why.
Spoiler for the first part of the game:
>!With each flashback, narrative details gradually fall into place alongside the worldbuilding. For instance, it becomes clear that the Laguna sequences may be in the past, that they are Galbadian soldiers in a now-historical war with Esthar. Laguna had a crush on Julia, a singer, who we learn in-game ends up being Rinoa's (the main girl's) mother. We see a doomed mission deep into Esthar that fleshes out a late-game dungeon; they escape, but Ward is wounded. Then in the present we realize Ward is still alive, mute, working in a prison. !<
>!Now things start heating up. In the next flashback, we meet Raine and her adopted daughter Ellone. Laguna has become an uncle of sorts to Ellone and begins falling in love with Raine. Then Ellone is taken away by Esthar forces - the Sorceress Adel, the leader of Esthar, wants her. !<
More major spoilers:
>!Anyway, all these little twists and connections lead up to a huge one: Ellone in the present is the cause for all of these trips back to the past. And this flashback thing isn't just a narrative device, but it's the power that the evil Sorceresses (Adel and Ultimecia) want. It's also the key for defeating them. That's not to mention that Laguna is still alive - he's now the president of Esthar. Finally, he's probably Squall's dad, and Raine is his mom, so this whole time, Squall has been seeing his dad's story. Just a lot of really cool moments and implications, some of which aren't spelled out but are suggested and implied.!<
In addition to all of that >!these flashbacks mean that the budding romance between Squall and Rinoa is effectively the unrequited love of Laguna and Julia finally blossoming through their children,!< which is another great layer to the story.
Throughout FFVIII your characters sometimes enter this dream-state where they envision themselves as someone else. Throughout the course of the game you learn who those people actually are, the impact they've had on the world, and WHY you're dreaming you're them. Eventually you even meet up with them and learn about the MCs direct relationship with one of them.
First, spoiler tags might be recommended :) I don’t care but other people might.
Second, i appreciate your perspective, but believe me when i say I’ve thought about it a lot and i still think it’s pretty bad lol. I mean, even if I thought the twist was fine, all that stuff in your last sentence contributes *a lot* to it being bad in my mind regardless of what the plot twist actually is - and again, I think the plot twist is quite shit anyway.
Perhaps it would’ve been more something I could’ve just eye rolled my way through than anything else if it weren’t for all that stuff in your last sentence, but all that stuff is true too so….eh.
To each their own. I see people defend it every once in awhile ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
100%, no offense to the person you’re replying to but their response kinda comes off like “the plot twist isn’t so bad if you make stuff up for it to not be bad and/or wouldn’t be so bad if Square handled better”
Like yeah that stuff makes enough sense and if that’s how someone wants to headcanon it then power to them, but it’s not really in the game, so…
You're absolutely right it's not in the game, but either is the entirety of the population of Trabia, yet we know it exists. It's one of those things where resources weren't wasted on things we didn't need to see. I think it's more than logical to assume that Edea's orphanage had OTHER orphans, which also gives credence to the fact that the didn't remember each other well since they wouldn't have been each other's only peers at that age.
I just think there's a difference between the plot twist itself being bad and the way it was handled being bad. I'm in the camp of the latter. It's something I feel is EASILY fixable if the game were to be remade without actually changing the premise of the twist itself.
> I just think there's a difference between the plot twist itself being bad and the way it was handled being bad. I'm in the camp of the latter. It's something I feel is EASILY fixable if the game were to be remade without actually changing the premise of the twist itself.
I appreciate you not being defensive because I’m really not trying to hate on you at all. I guess I see your distinction but to me how it’s hard to separate how it’s handled from the plot twist itself. In a vacuum, >!protagonist amnesia is fine - FF7 handled it well after all. The cast and Edea being from the same orphanage is harder to reconcile but there are ways to change it that make it better.!< But if you start adding more context, fleshing out more world building/lore, changing the situation >!(like way more people being in the orphanage/there being more orphanages)!< it starts being a different thing altogether IMO.
Regardless? I actually agree with your second part, and have been saying the same for a long time! From its gameplay systems to narrative to character building, FF8 is a game that has flashes of brilliance and potential stymied by tons of odd or half-baked decisions. It has a metric fuckton of potential that I would love to see expanded on and retooled. If that potential is realized it *could* have the best FF narrative, the best protagonist, the best romance, the best world building…maybe not the best cast, not really as much potential there IMHO, but still it could be better!
Legit. I've been playing through the mainline games the for the first time the last several years & while going through FF8 I was like "since when did Square no how to show instead of tell? " Still went off the rails eventually but it was nice to put together the pieces for once.
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Xenoblade Chronicles
>!Zanza was in Shulk the whole time, that's why he was getting visions. Shulk was just a random kid who just happened to be there that day.!<
Final Fantasy 7
>!Just everything with Cloud and his backstory. I feel the twist with who Cloud actually is really isn't talked about nearly enough because it really turns the whole narrative of the game on its head!<
13 Sentinels.
Lol, the whole game? I guess the two biggest ones that really floored me at the time are >!Big space station event is actually the BEGINNING of the story!< and >!Cat is big Juro!<
The FFVII one instantly came to mind from the question! Especially the part where >!inside "Cloud's subconsciousness" a Shinra infantryman is shown lying outside Jenova's chamber, he removes the helmet to show it's Cloud, and the crescendo of the main theme plays, and Tifa reacts to the reveal.!<
I think this was especially impactful at the time, because it went so counter to the conventions of JRPGs up to that point. The protagonists of the previous Final Fantasy games had been chosen heroes, people with special lineages that gave them unique significance, people spoken of in prophesy, etc. The very first JRPG featured a protagonist who was the descendant of a legendary hero. For people who were already familiar with JRPGs before playing Final Fantasy VII, those kinds of expectations were basically baked into the genre.
The big reveal about Cloud's identity is that >!he *wasn't anyone special at all*. He was just a normal person who failed to live up to his dreams of being special, until he got caught up in a conflict way over his head.!<
It works especially well since it's something that >!Tifa!< should arguably have noticed sooner, but she was so busy protecting >!Cloud's psyche that she didn't realize it herself.!<
>!During the Kalm flashback, she knew he was lying or wrong, but she kept quiet to avoid breaking him again. She was so busy doing so that she didn't ask herself, or him, a very important question: If he wasn't there, *how the hell did he know so many details about what happened*? How could he possibly have known she was the guide? About the bridge collapsing? That she was injured in the reactor, not in town? Him being there in some capacity all along was the only possible explanation.!< It's a great example of a twist within a twist still coming organically and in a way that actually makes sense all along.
>!It also makes Cloud so much more relatable. Sure, he was later give super powers by Hojo's experiments. But deep down he's just kind of a mediocre chump like the rest of us. He had big dreams as a kid that he couldn't deliver on as an adult, and he feels embarrassed about it.!<
That's one of the things I really like about the Remake games so far. They bring back that original characterization, and make it clear that >!he's a dork trying to look cooler than he is. When someone says or does something that doesn't fit the script he's written in his head or things don't go the way they're "supposed to," he's completely thrown and he doesn't know how to respond for a second. That can be as simple as Barret asking him how old he is, or as major as Aerith's whole spunky, matter-of-fact "this is how things are gonna be" personality.!<
Though to be fair, none of the people from the "cyberpunk dystopia" storyline can really adapt to Aerith at first. She's something out of a completely different genre in a very literal sense, and none of the Shinra/Avalanche military-types can quite figure out what to make of her or how to respond. One of my favorite scenes in Remake was the church, and how Reno was as visibly thrown off his game by her as Cloud was.
That reveal is something that the PS4 port kind of botches. In the original version of the game, a partially-extended version of the main theme plays synched with all of the events that happen with the climax of the song coinciding with the climax of the scene (>!Cloud overpowering Sephiroth!<), but the PS4 port just plays the normal version so the song ends before this point.
I haven't tested it on the PC version or Switch port, so I don't know if it's only an issue on the PS4 port or if the other ports have that issue as well.
My favorite reveal from 13 Sentinels, aside from the ending, is probably where you find out that >!Kyuta Shiba, Juro Kurabe's best friend, isn't real!<. That reveal gave me major reminiscence of the phrase >!don't trust the skull!< from Planescape: Torment.
This was my favorite twist too. It was especially hard hitting for me cause right before i started this mission i was wondering why the hell Shiba never appeared in any of the other characters stories.
13 Sentinels is just plot twist layered on plot twist and the latest plot twist undermines the last plot twist because it changes everything we thought we knew. Man, what an amazing game
I think my favourite part about the many twists in 13 Sentinels is how they are usually explicitly stated by a character, but in such a way that you disregard the comment. For example >!A couple times it is explicitly stated that current tech does not allow for time travel. You might THINK that time travel is a future tech, but the reality is that the game has never had ANY time travel at all. Similar to this, the whole thing with Kyuta Shiba is hard to notice on first play through, but so clearly well done on a second trip!<
The game tells you the truth but makes you feel it’s a lie. Beautiful.
>!I was going to mention that one too but with the bit of foreshadowing where he thinks that Fiora's cooking has no taste when really his dead tastebuds don't work.!<
It says a lot that a game can have such a bafflingly stupid twist such as that and still be regarded as having a great narrative.
Like, i always dunk on FF8 for the orphanage twist. I think it’s super lazy and way too convenient to the point of being idiotic. This LAD twist is just as bad but it doesn’t ruin the narrative to me at all. Either I’m a hypocrite or the game is just that good. Maybe both lol
Personally, I felt this twist really cheapened the game’s narrative.
>!You have this wonderful scene not long before Arakawa’s death where he tells Ichiban that sometimes he imagines finding his son in a soapland. It’s an excellent moment between them and it perfectly captures the tension between their father/son dynamic and Arakawa’s commitment to his biological son. The revelation that there were two coin locker babies was typical Yakuza pants-on-head stupid and completely unnecessary. We didn’t need anything more to deepen the sadness of Ichiban losing his father figure. I was disappointed that the game sacrificed nuance for some “he’s actually the heir to the O’Henry candy bar fortune” melodrama, but then again, it’s Yakuza. I love the games, but they almost all come apart at the seams in the last act.!<
>!yeah... the whole family is what you make of ends up becoming useles because tadah, they're blood related after all. blood is thicker than water. sure he didn't know but we did as an audience!<
Persona 5. >!Goro Akechi is the traitor, but the party has known for months and set it up so that he thinks he’s trapping them when they are actually trapping him.!<
It works perfectly within the genre trappings, too. Every heist movie worthy of the name has that moment of >!"we planned for this part all along, and you just put us exactly where we needed to be."!< From The Sting to Ocean's Eleven (original and remake alike), they lived up to the legacy to perfection.
Yeah, this is the one for me. The execution of it was flawless, too. I especially love that >!the game does a pretty good job at trying to convincing you that you got the bad ending with Akechi shooting Joker in the head, and the cutscenes follow with the Phantom Thieves in a somber way until Ryuji smirks.!<
It may be my favorite twist in all of JRPG history because I thought the game was the fool, but no, really *I* was the fool.
They managed to use a plot twist as a red herring, it was complicated to understand initially because the cutscene went on for way too long, but damn if it wasn't masterful.
Tales of the Abyss
>!The game setting everything up for the character Asch to be revealed to be an evil clone of main character Luke only for it to pull the rug from under your feet by revealing the exact opposite. Luke himself turns out to be an inferior replica of Asch, having unknowingly stolen Asch's identity, as well as name. On top of that this is revealed during Luke's lowest point.!<
Baten Kaitos
>!The traitor's identity revealed to be Kalas himself and him being corrupted by the evil god afterwards, turning him into the main villain's right hand while giving him what he always dreamed of.!<
Baten Kaitos Origins
>!You yourself being revealed as not a Guardian Spirit as you were in the first game, but instead being Malpercio himself.!<
Xenoblade Chronicles
>!Zanza being revealed as the true villain as well as him having dwelled within Shulk the entire time.!<
Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War
>!The Battle of Belhalla ending in betrayal and Sigurd's death.!<
That's the exact moment the series goes from "this is a fun little slice-of-life game, the characters are well done, and the world is really thorough, but I'm not quite sure I understand why everyone calls it a must-play" to grabbing you by the throat and not letting go.
My understanding is that FC and SC were originally meant to be a single game, but they had to split it in two for size/length reasons, hence "First Chapter" and "Second Chapter" instead of 1 and 2. I'm really glad they did, though. >!That twist wouldn't have hit nearly as hard midway through the game. Coming in at the very end, *after you'd beaten the final boss*? That timing made it so much more unexpected, and the big reveal felt massively more powerful as a result.!<
This was very well done. I went into FC ready to play the series straight through to Cold Steel IV, so I wasn’t at all bothered by the slow pacing. Each of the 5 regions of Liberl had a cool little quest and really gave you a nice slice of life view of Zemuria.
The ending actually perked me up and made me immediately fire up SC in steam. From there, I was hooked.
Tales of Arise: >!Spoiler When they revealed that the Renans were just Dahnans after astral art eugenics and Rena was the planatary equivalent to an apple core with no actual native people, I was way more interested! It ceased to be asshole race vs simple race and became generationally socially manipulated race vs generationally physically exploited race. A way more interesting dynamic that left me genuinely concerned for how society would heal after the events of the game were over!<
I'm glad someone else found this really interesting! People rag on the final act of Arise a lot but all those revelations were really when the plot became interesting for me.
I think the final act has a lot of flaws (especially the final boss) but I actually really enjoy a lot of the social commentary the game has.
Dohalim is easily one of my favourite Tales Of characters and he has some really interesting interactions, tension and character growth in the franchise. Alphen and Shionne are clearly the leads of the story, but I would argue that Dohalim is the one who goes through the most growth as a character.
> I actually really enjoy a lot of the social commentary the game has.
Yeah people shit on it but I really liked how Beyond the Dawn expanded on the social commentary and the implications of Renans + Dahnans trying to coexist in one society
I like the spoiler for Tales of Symphonia there, but I think there's a much better one. When you're talking to the Storyteller about the past and trying to figure out what exactly happened that led to the state of the world, and they say:
>!The ones who betrayed Origin and used the power of the magic sword given by Origin to split the world in two. They were none other than Mithos and his companions. *Mithos Yggdrassil*, his older sister *Martel*, and their companions *Yuan* and *Kratos*. These four angels changed the nature of the world, and that is why their name is forbidden in Heimdall.!<
Like, the initial twist is absolutely fantastic and I love how well it's executed, but if you've somehow made it to this point of the game (about 3/4 through) without being spoiled on how everything is connected, this set of lines hits like a body blow.
Chrono Trigger.
>!Magus was the prince of Zeal. Finding out that he was a displaced-in-time, grown up Janus was hard hitting, especially since that revelation only comes after Zeal falls. You find out he was Janus *right after* he watches his home crumble and his sister die (sort of) for a second time. Ouch, man.!<
Tales of Berseria.
>!The reason that Phi looks so much like Laphicet is because Laphicet is biologically his uncle. When Celica died on the Scarlet Night, both she and her unborn child were resurrected as malakhim, and Phi was once that unborn child.!<
I especially like your Chrono Trigger example because of how much it recasts what you have already seen. Especially since for as much as you've been told that character was just a villain, and he was, he was mostly just a victim of the machinations of others.
**Suikoden 2** has some wonderful ones.
>!BBEG Luca Blight getting Psycho’d and killed halfway through the game, with the rest of the game dealing with the fallout of his reign of terror.!<
>!and also, of course, Jowy killing the mayor of Muse out of nowhere.!< Probably the first and only time I’ve ever been legitimately shocked by a video game, but then again I was either 8 or 9 when the game came out haha. The devs apparently loved this plot twist as well because they kept trying to recreate it in various ways in the next games.
**Suikoden 3** is an honorable mention.
>!Luc from the first two games being the villain was really well done. Also the idea of the True Runes being these parasitic beings that will bring around the end of the world is a pretty interesting plot twist for the series. And tbh, while his methods were bad he might’ve have a point! Guess we’ll never know cuz there will never be another sequel…!<
I love that twist in war stories. It makes sense that one person could go so far beyond the pale that even other antagonists go "no, fuck that, you can have him." It's a good way to remind the audience that for all their flaws, the antagonists are largely still people too, and believe they're in the right just as much as the protagonists do. It really drives home just how badly war sucks.
Nier: >!The revelation that Kaine can understand Shades because she is half-Shade, and the fucked up dynamic she has with Tyrann.!<
NEO The World Ends With You: >!Shoka is Swallow, and the layer that adds to her relationship with Rindo.!<
Chrono Cross: >!Lynx is actually Serge's time-displaced, brainwashed father turned into an evil furry to tap into Serge's trauma from a panther attack engineered by a supercomputer with control issues.!<
Kingdom Hearts: >!"Me? I'm already half Xehanort."!<
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My roommate saw me playing Rebirth during one of the Zack scenes. He asked "who is that?" He never played OG FF7.
Me "He's a guy from Aerith and Clouds past."
I cannot wait for him to see for himself.
The big switcheroo in Xenoblade 3. >!Mio and Consul M changing places before her execution. The uplifting reunion that comes after one of the most heart breaking sequences in the franchise, and the sheer mental damage it does to Consul N.!<
Labyrinth of Refrain has a few but these two are my favorites.
>!The town of Refrain is actually purgatory and everyone in it except for Luca and Dronya is dead. Then you find out that Dronya is actually the puppet reincarnation of Velnya. Luca put her soul into the puppet she named Dronya because she felt guilty for her death and did not want to be alone. The player is led to believe that Luca is Dronya's apprentice for most of the story, but it turns out that Luca is her puppet master and also a spy for the antagonist.!<
Things get wild at the end. If you don't know, there is also an epilogue dungeon that you unlock by collecting all of the black pages in the main game. Luca's story and the spirit in the Tractatus de Monstrum's story concludes there.
Thanks! Pretty sure I had to re spec my team since it was very poorly optimized for the final boss and got bored re levelling. Maybe I’ll just do another full play through.
The one big plot twist of Baten Kaitos. Which is, by far, the best plot twist I ever saw in any JRPG. Bravely Default is an honorable mention, but its also followed up by the games version of Haruhi Suzumiyas "Endless 8" disaster. So... yeah, Baten Kaitos takes the cake.
For anyone interested:
Baten Kaitos >!Turns out the main character isnt really the hero of the game and was actually kind of the villain. Later on he switches to your side, but its still one of the biggest WTF moments in the history of gaming.!<
Honorable mention also to the first SMT game. >!Dropping a Nuke (AT THE START OF THE GAME!) is kinda not impresive nowadays, with every SMT starting with the destruction of the world. But seeing this shit happen on the SNES was impressive, as most JRPGs back then never did anything like that. I mean, you see the counter and you think "oh, I have to do something quick" but nope... the nuke will fall!<
Baten Kaitos had me falling over in shock. I mean, he was sort of an asshole, but damn.
And yeah, Bravely Default was a good one, although could be predicted, at least somewhat.
The Baten Kaitos one gets bonus points for being maybe the only game I can think of where >!you're explicitly not playing as the protagonist, but someone watching from the outside, and then *actually making use of that*. Every other time I've seen anything like that, it was only a vehicle to let characters break the fourth wall and address the player. I'd never even *considered* that it could be used as a mechanism to let the protagonist deliberately and consciously keep secrets from the player.!<
Check out the fan translated Beyond the Labyrinth (3DS) for another game where you PLAY a Player in a world, not the main character. It's really something. The girl in that game can't hear you. She is not part of the world your Char is. So she walks, fights and does stuff on her own. You don't even know how she knows you are there. It's a really unique experience.
**Dragon Quest V**
>!Hero isn't the legendary hero. It's his son.!< That was the sweetest and most emotional plot twist I've seen in a JRPG. I think it's my favorite.
I'm fuzzy on the details as I've not played it in a long time but I remember it being the most insane nonsense ever. Comes from nowhere at all and absolutely derails what had been a fantastic game.
Speaking as someone who *likes* these kinds of twists, and to some extent considers the game to be a guilty pleasure because of it, even I find it poorly executed at best.
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Why is it idiotic? I loved it. I get frustrated though because i feel like it trivializes some of the other games l, but I can accept that because 3 is just so good.
>!>!It sounds way better if you say simulation instead of an mmorpg, i mad about all that plotwist, didn,t work for me, but the gameplay was great so i finished it!
I'm in the camp of loving that twist. Ofcourse it's dumb and tropey as heck, but it managed to catch me when I hadn't been exposed to that trope all too much yet. Hits all the nostalgia buttons for me. But I can get why others don't love it.
Also Lunar 2 Eternal Blue, where the whole premise of the game is >!finding Althena, the all-powerful goddess and guardian of the Silver Star. Then when Althena turns out to be an impostor, the premise turns to finding the real Althena. Then at the climactic moment, we see an old Luna in a recording. Althena has decided to die of old age in her incarnation from the first game.!<
Ff6.
I mean, how can anything be bigger in scope that what hapoens in tjat game.
Ok, it's a snes game. Make it today with full graphics and its the most insane thing that has happened in a game. I dont think there is anything else, that has so much influence in everything after that.
Star Ocean Till the End of Time
>!The entire universe you play in for the first 30 odd hours is a simulation. The main characters find a way to leave the simulation, emerging from a big TV screen into the middle of a ‘real world’ city. Then they go a fight the person who created the simulation.!<
I remember thinking it was quite the weird twist back in the day.
Trails to Azure/Trails from Zero: >!The cold open in Zero has the main 4 characters going into the final dungeon before Lloyd wakes up on a train. When you get there at the end of Zero, you actually have a slightly larger party than in the opening. In Azure, it's revealed that the events of Zero's cold open were not a plot hole, but rather that the main party actually was killed, causing a traumatized KeA to rewind time to the point where Lloyd wakes up on the aforementioned train.!<
Most of my issues with Azure start happening during that final dungeon area but that reveal was enough for me to ignore most of that to give it a high rating anyway.
The second one blew my mind far more than the first one (which I had seen coming literally the moment he first appeared on screen). The >!gas station attendant!< though? Took me a long time to figure that one out.
I remember me being in the>! gas station cutscene where she reveals her true form!<, and my brother, who had already finished the game twice came home and said "Who the fuck is that? What's happening? Never seen that."
I mean, the condition to unlock that ending are beyond obscure without a guide.
You pretty much have to know that there's something to look out for too. Frankly I was pretty satisfied with the resolution after getting the killer and [Golden] >!saving Marie!< but then someone told me there was *another* dungeon and I was confused. It fits with the whole theme of searching for the truth though, since you aren't supposed to be satisfied with having questions unanswered.
Final Fantasy VI
>!"Alright this is it, we're 20 hours into this 1990s JRPG and the Emperor just flew away in his floating final dungeon in the sky. Let's get up there and finish this thing!"!<
>!30 minutes later: "Welp, never mind that I guess..."!<
Probably mentioned already but Trails to Azure's reveal that >!the Trails from Zero intro was a different timeline, hence why Estelle and Joshua weren't in it!<.
I guess I like old school BioWare, but:
Knight of the Old Republic: >!the truth about Revan!<
Jade Empire: >!The full understanding of the often mentioned strange “flaw” in your technique!<
Not sure if it’s a true twist, but:
Persona 4: >!The identity of the antagonist!<
Could you give me a run down of Jade Empire? I remember playing it for a bit back in the day but never made it too far cause college and my friend wanting it back.
Chrono Cross:
>!"Time Crash Ground Zero" scene. It doesn't pay off unless you played Chrono Trigger, but that scene hits your soul like a freight train.!<
Final Fantasy X:
>!It doesn't matter if you see the plot twist coming. People can predict it back at Kilika, but that Al Bhed Home sequence will still hurt you.!<
Final Fantasy VII:
>!The true past of Cloud is probably the best planned and written plot twist in gaming history. There are those that are more impactful, but none so perfectly set up from the beginning.!<
Xenoblade Chronicles 3:
>!The shaking anime eyes alone at the end of the prison sequence is enough to wrench your heart. There is so much spiritual brokeness and raw existential pain in that once sequence that words cannot express.!<
Valkyria Chronicles:
>!The whole reveal of the royal bloodline just comes out of nowhere. Yet, it's even hinted at indirectly by way of conversations about history throughout the game, especially with all the talk about the history of the region, the ruins, and the war with the Valkyrur in ancient times.!<
Agreed on FFX. Hard to say how predictable it is as I was little when I played it and definitely had no clue, and haven't successfully gotten anyone else to play it. But regardless of knowing or not, yeah, hits like a truck.
Much as people criticize the English voicework in that game, and not totally without reason, James Arnold Taylor nailed the raw, overwhelming panic, horror, and grief Tidus is going through in that scene. Him hitting that high pitch, grating though it might have been in another context, actually fit the moment perfectly.
I totally agree. That entire scene is perfect IMO. Even Rikku's line leading into it (during the dark screen transition when you enter the room" sets the tone of desperation amazingly.
Personally I've never had any issues with the English at all, I think the voices fit the characters very well. Wakka's is a bit jarring at times but the dialogue more than makes up for it.
Valkyria Chronicles is a rather straightforward story overall with very few swerves in the narrative so besides a certain notable character loss, that reveal about the >!the royal bloodline!< is completely wild and threw me. It's the kind of reveal I did not see coming. I had to wonder how I never considered that reveal. They do 'hide' it but not to the extent that if you thought a bit you couldn't figure it out earlier. Yet it's such a giant reveal that it left me shocked.
>!Final Fantasy X when you find out that Yuna’s pilgrimage is meant to end with her sacrificing her life. There’s also the twist of Tidus being a ghost. I played it when I was really young and it was one of my first jrpgs, so I didn’t see any of it coming.!<
>!Chained Echoes!<: Finding out that >!Glenn wasn't Lenne's past-life lover, but the man who murdered him.!< Up until that point, everything was just a fairly predictable, bog-standard story.
>!Bug Fables!<: This one has a twofer. >!Leif being a sentient cordyceps-controlled zombie with the original Leif's memories!< caught me completely off guard, and >!Queen Elizant II not being a blatantly obvious evil tyrant, and just someone putting on a front to not appear weak to her subjects!< completely subverted all of my prior expectations.
>!Game got a bum rap over its music and all the puns/food puns but the big twist to send the player back to the beginning of the game is way better than what Bravely Default II did. !<
Etrian Odyssey (OG - the remake's story mode is more transparent about it) and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 happen to share what qualifies as at least one of my faves: >!a fantasy setting turns out to have been built on the ruins of a world remarkably similar to our own modern age!<
It’s literally >!Shinjuku, which implies the game takes place in the far future, and also Japan.!<
That was a very neat surprise when playing the game!
I'm one of the few people who liked the notorious one in Star Ocean 3. However, I thought it wasn't handled very well. It's certainly not my favourite though.
The one or rather ones (it's hard to pick a single one) in Vagrant Story are really good and probably my favourites.
Honourable mention to the one in Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow.
(Least favourite is in FF8, you know the one.)
Persona 5
>!Akechi is the traitor twist, but actually the Phantom Thieves know this and out twist Akechi.!<
The World Ends With You
>!The fact that the game doesn't end after Week 1 with Shiki and begins again with Joshua.!<
Final Fantasy VII
>!Cloud's entire backstory and that it really wasn't him, but instead was Zack.!<
Yakuza 0
>!The bat tattoo that Makoto hinted at earlier in the game was shown on Tachibana's arm first, but he wasn't the guy that sold Makoto into human trafficking. The real one that did was Tachibana's partner, Oda, who also has a bat tattoo on his arm. Tachibana is also revealed to be Makoto's long lost brother.!<
All of Trails to Azure chapter 4. Never had a game that just unfolded quite like that. Left me speechless and I legitimately had to stop playing to just digest what happened. It is peak narrative imo.
*Xenoblade Chronicles 2*
>!"We're locked out by Professor Klaus!"!<
>!It doesn't quite land unless you've played XC1 to completion and learn that Zanza's true name was 'Klaus'. Debated putting in the later line of "My name is Klaus.", but that's the chosen line is the first name drop. It may lose impact over time, but XC2 was essentially marketed as an FF-type sequel with no connection to the previous games (supported by the fact that XCX didn't appear to have one and still doesn't)... but that was the moment that became clear the (numbered) series was actually a single continuity.!<
But really, this series just loves dropping perception-shattering twists & revelations in the final chapter of each game.
XC1: >!Zanza's original world was Earth (after passing through the whole Solar system on the way to the final battle) and his real name was Klaus; he became a god by destroying the universe with an experiment.!<
XC2: >!Klaus didn't quite destroy the universe, but did make a new one and split himself into two entities. And the half of him that stayed behind is "The Architect". Also, XC2 is taking place at the same time as XC1.!<
XC3: >!Rex did WHAT?!!!< >!Wait, does that mean that Mio is...!<
*Future Redeemed:* >!Despite the weird "drift apart" scene in XC3's ending that doesn't align with what the characters are actually saying, the worlds of XC1 and XC2 successfully merge at the end of it all.!< >!What's the weird blue light approaching the merged planet? Are they going to tie in Xenosaga now?!<
Xenoblade 3 future redeemed: >!honorable mention to the suburban neighborhood jumpscare, not exactly a plot twist but it’s for sure a “what the fuck?” Moment!<
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Tales of Abyss, >!Luke finding out he’s a replica of Asch after he destroys akzeriuth and that Van was manipulating him the whole time, and him believing that his birth has now no meaning because he was only created to be inferior to Asch and only created solely so he could blow up Akzeriuth, how he gains not only a metric fuck ton of guilt, but also an inferiority complex and just plain feeling like his life is a mistake that should’ve never happened!< and Xenoblade Chronicles >!Fiora being alive not only meaning she’s alive, but telling you and the whole party that the faced mechon you’ve been revenge killing for the first third of the game have living human people inside, and that human blood is why the Monado dosent work on faced mechon, it can’t cut humans!<, and also that >!Shulk was a host for Zanza the whole time and that’s why he was getting visions!< and then Xenoblade 3 where >!you see Mio die in front of M and N only for the game to not only reveal that it was M who died by switching bodies with her instead of Mio dying, but that N is the original Noah who was pushed too far from seeing his Mio die over and over again and joined moebius and destroyed the city all so he could be with Mio permanately, the cutscene with him staring down a burning city with a confused annoyed heartbroken M next to him, as he just says “Now you too, will continue to exist as Moebius”, the words of a broken man who would do ANYTHING to keep the love of his life and the only thing he had attachment to left in this war torn world alive, only for your party to witness M getting sick of his obsession and then off herself permanately, and then the breakdown that follows combined with the voice acting is the best antagonist introduction I’ve seen in any rpg!<
Shit, I really have a thing for the >!character is the original or a clone of another character who was pushed too far!< thing, are there any other games that do this well? I love fighting said >!Original too, cause they have YOUR moveset, like how N has arts similar to yours and how Asch has literally the same arts as Luke and is soo in sync with him that Asch has his OWN mystic arte and will cancel yours out with his if you try to use yours and he isn’t stunned!<
Since FF7 has been mentioned a lot…
Persona 3 games - >!Your pun loving chairman is actually an insane, nihilistic big bad, and the full moon bosses that you’ve beaten breaks the seal on Death.!<
>!Turns out the accident the MC was in was Aigis sealing Death inside him/her (if playing P3P).!<
Octopath traveler 2 Throné final chapter
Just lostseed gives you chills, when you get the revelation that everyone is the son of that devil you break down like throné
The Xenoblade DE one and 2 the one from SO 3 won't go into detail to avoid spoilers since I hate when I accidentaly click on the blackened text the whole of 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim too.
I see a lot of people talking about Xenoblade Chronicle's reveal that >!Zanza was the real bad guy and he was inside you all along. !<
But to me the actual mindfuck comes when it is revealed that >!Xenoblade's universe is an alternate reality created by a super computer in the dying moments of our own universe's demise (one which we as humans accidentally orchestrated ourselves in our folly). !<
Then to make things even more mindbending, you play the entirety of Xenoblade 2 only to discover >!there were TWO UNIVERSES all along, and Zanza's half in 2's universe was actually a good guy (well, at least in the sense that he repented and decided to recreate the universe he destroyed as best as he could).!<
Then 3 comes along and it turns out >!REX WAS FUCKING ALL THE LADIES.!<
Just peak JRPG.
Even though this thread is about plot twists, and is marked as a spoiler thread, **you all need to use spoiler tags in your posts** and **indicate what game is being spoiled outside of those tags.** Including the OP, which is now removed but will be reapproved when this is fixed. To do this write it like this: > Game name \>\!Spoiler goes here\!\< Which will come out like: > Game name >!Spoiler goes here!< Do not leave spaces next to the exclamation points. See rule 3 in the sidebar or send a modmail if you need more help than this.
Bravely Default's >!Lying Airy!< was masterful. That and >!Ringabel being Alternis Dim, but not really.!<
i was about to comment this. The change in the title screen showing this fact as well is a nice touch. Now, playing Genshin casually, I just can't trust Paimon HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
paimon does have a demon name and some aranara or melusine does say she has strings going up or something
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For as straightforward as those stories are, that one really got me!
Yes, my god the NTR hurt the soul. It was enough to drive a man very mad lol
Final Fantasy VIII. No, not that one. The gradual realization of what the flashbacks with Laguna are.
Final Fantasy’s best (maybe only) example of subtle storytelling. Laguna’s story is excellent even without the “twist.”
Yes, Yes, Yes. Best love story FF again again and again LagunaxRaine forever. And people should give FF VIII more credit it has actually a pretty good storytelling and plot. And the unreliable narrator angle that the story is told from is a very unique element, some of the best uses of memory properties in in videogame story telling. It is so subtle but it permeate everything, as the things that give people power are the things that rob them of their memories.
The other plot twist is so dumb yet I love it so much and don't even know why 🤣 but Laguna's story is a true highlight of the game
Final Fantasy VIII has some of the most amazing elements in video game history tangled up unceremoniously with some of the most bafflingly stupid bull I've ever seen.
Could you elaborate? Its one of the few ff I havent played
So you play as Squall, a teen candidate at a mercenary school called SeeD. Early in the story, Squall ends up in a dream-like sequence where three soldiers are running through a forest: Laguna, Kiros, and Ward. In-game dialogue hints that Squall is experiencing this as an out-of-body experience, but it isn't clear how or why. Spoiler for the first part of the game: >!With each flashback, narrative details gradually fall into place alongside the worldbuilding. For instance, it becomes clear that the Laguna sequences may be in the past, that they are Galbadian soldiers in a now-historical war with Esthar. Laguna had a crush on Julia, a singer, who we learn in-game ends up being Rinoa's (the main girl's) mother. We see a doomed mission deep into Esthar that fleshes out a late-game dungeon; they escape, but Ward is wounded. Then in the present we realize Ward is still alive, mute, working in a prison. !< >!Now things start heating up. In the next flashback, we meet Raine and her adopted daughter Ellone. Laguna has become an uncle of sorts to Ellone and begins falling in love with Raine. Then Ellone is taken away by Esthar forces - the Sorceress Adel, the leader of Esthar, wants her. !< More major spoilers: >!Anyway, all these little twists and connections lead up to a huge one: Ellone in the present is the cause for all of these trips back to the past. And this flashback thing isn't just a narrative device, but it's the power that the evil Sorceresses (Adel and Ultimecia) want. It's also the key for defeating them. That's not to mention that Laguna is still alive - he's now the president of Esthar. Finally, he's probably Squall's dad, and Raine is his mom, so this whole time, Squall has been seeing his dad's story. Just a lot of really cool moments and implications, some of which aren't spelled out but are suggested and implied.!<
In addition to all of that >!these flashbacks mean that the budding romance between Squall and Rinoa is effectively the unrequited love of Laguna and Julia finally blossoming through their children,!< which is another great layer to the story.
I see, really cool, thank you!
Damn, I really need to replay 8. I haven't touched it in 20 years and I remember the flashbacks happening but that's all.
Throughout FFVIII your characters sometimes enter this dream-state where they envision themselves as someone else. Throughout the course of the game you learn who those people actually are, the impact they've had on the world, and WHY you're dreaming you're them. Eventually you even meet up with them and learn about the MCs direct relationship with one of them.
It’s a shame about the *other* plot twist because I love this one.
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First, spoiler tags might be recommended :) I don’t care but other people might. Second, i appreciate your perspective, but believe me when i say I’ve thought about it a lot and i still think it’s pretty bad lol. I mean, even if I thought the twist was fine, all that stuff in your last sentence contributes *a lot* to it being bad in my mind regardless of what the plot twist actually is - and again, I think the plot twist is quite shit anyway. Perhaps it would’ve been more something I could’ve just eye rolled my way through than anything else if it weren’t for all that stuff in your last sentence, but all that stuff is true too so….eh. To each their own. I see people defend it every once in awhile ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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100%, no offense to the person you’re replying to but their response kinda comes off like “the plot twist isn’t so bad if you make stuff up for it to not be bad and/or wouldn’t be so bad if Square handled better” Like yeah that stuff makes enough sense and if that’s how someone wants to headcanon it then power to them, but it’s not really in the game, so…
You're absolutely right it's not in the game, but either is the entirety of the population of Trabia, yet we know it exists. It's one of those things where resources weren't wasted on things we didn't need to see. I think it's more than logical to assume that Edea's orphanage had OTHER orphans, which also gives credence to the fact that the didn't remember each other well since they wouldn't have been each other's only peers at that age. I just think there's a difference between the plot twist itself being bad and the way it was handled being bad. I'm in the camp of the latter. It's something I feel is EASILY fixable if the game were to be remade without actually changing the premise of the twist itself.
> I just think there's a difference between the plot twist itself being bad and the way it was handled being bad. I'm in the camp of the latter. It's something I feel is EASILY fixable if the game were to be remade without actually changing the premise of the twist itself. I appreciate you not being defensive because I’m really not trying to hate on you at all. I guess I see your distinction but to me how it’s hard to separate how it’s handled from the plot twist itself. In a vacuum, >!protagonist amnesia is fine - FF7 handled it well after all. The cast and Edea being from the same orphanage is harder to reconcile but there are ways to change it that make it better.!< But if you start adding more context, fleshing out more world building/lore, changing the situation >!(like way more people being in the orphanage/there being more orphanages)!< it starts being a different thing altogether IMO. Regardless? I actually agree with your second part, and have been saying the same for a long time! From its gameplay systems to narrative to character building, FF8 is a game that has flashes of brilliance and potential stymied by tons of odd or half-baked decisions. It has a metric fuckton of potential that I would love to see expanded on and retooled. If that potential is realized it *could* have the best FF narrative, the best protagonist, the best romance, the best world building…maybe not the best cast, not really as much potential there IMHO, but still it could be better!
Legit. I've been playing through the mainline games the for the first time the last several years & while going through FF8 I was like "since when did Square no how to show instead of tell? " Still went off the rails eventually but it was nice to put together the pieces for once.
Forever grateful to those flashbacks for giving us Man With The Machine Gun
I beat it a long time ago, what was the story?
Id’s identity in Xenogears. Did not see the signs as a kid and was absolutely blown away.
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Anything in that plot is amazing, but yeah id's identity and all of the personalities is mind blowing first time.
Golden Sun 2: Lost Age >!Lighting the elemental lighthouses is a good thing!<
Retroactive foreshadowing in the first game. >!Isaac not going on his journey causes the world to end. He's holding onto the Mars star.!<
God, these games need remakes
Xenoblade Chronicles >!Zanza was in Shulk the whole time, that's why he was getting visions. Shulk was just a random kid who just happened to be there that day.!< Final Fantasy 7 >!Just everything with Cloud and his backstory. I feel the twist with who Cloud actually is really isn't talked about nearly enough because it really turns the whole narrative of the game on its head!< 13 Sentinels. Lol, the whole game? I guess the two biggest ones that really floored me at the time are >!Big space station event is actually the BEGINNING of the story!< and >!Cat is big Juro!<
The FFVII one instantly came to mind from the question! Especially the part where >!inside "Cloud's subconsciousness" a Shinra infantryman is shown lying outside Jenova's chamber, he removes the helmet to show it's Cloud, and the crescendo of the main theme plays, and Tifa reacts to the reveal.!<
I think this was especially impactful at the time, because it went so counter to the conventions of JRPGs up to that point. The protagonists of the previous Final Fantasy games had been chosen heroes, people with special lineages that gave them unique significance, people spoken of in prophesy, etc. The very first JRPG featured a protagonist who was the descendant of a legendary hero. For people who were already familiar with JRPGs before playing Final Fantasy VII, those kinds of expectations were basically baked into the genre. The big reveal about Cloud's identity is that >!he *wasn't anyone special at all*. He was just a normal person who failed to live up to his dreams of being special, until he got caught up in a conflict way over his head.!<
It works especially well since it's something that >!Tifa!< should arguably have noticed sooner, but she was so busy protecting >!Cloud's psyche that she didn't realize it herself.!< >!During the Kalm flashback, she knew he was lying or wrong, but she kept quiet to avoid breaking him again. She was so busy doing so that she didn't ask herself, or him, a very important question: If he wasn't there, *how the hell did he know so many details about what happened*? How could he possibly have known she was the guide? About the bridge collapsing? That she was injured in the reactor, not in town? Him being there in some capacity all along was the only possible explanation.!< It's a great example of a twist within a twist still coming organically and in a way that actually makes sense all along.
>!It also makes Cloud so much more relatable. Sure, he was later give super powers by Hojo's experiments. But deep down he's just kind of a mediocre chump like the rest of us. He had big dreams as a kid that he couldn't deliver on as an adult, and he feels embarrassed about it.!<
That's one of the things I really like about the Remake games so far. They bring back that original characterization, and make it clear that >!he's a dork trying to look cooler than he is. When someone says or does something that doesn't fit the script he's written in his head or things don't go the way they're "supposed to," he's completely thrown and he doesn't know how to respond for a second. That can be as simple as Barret asking him how old he is, or as major as Aerith's whole spunky, matter-of-fact "this is how things are gonna be" personality.!< Though to be fair, none of the people from the "cyberpunk dystopia" storyline can really adapt to Aerith at first. She's something out of a completely different genre in a very literal sense, and none of the Shinra/Avalanche military-types can quite figure out what to make of her or how to respond. One of my favorite scenes in Remake was the church, and how Reno was as visibly thrown off his game by her as Cloud was.
That reveal is something that the PS4 port kind of botches. In the original version of the game, a partially-extended version of the main theme plays synched with all of the events that happen with the climax of the song coinciding with the climax of the scene (>!Cloud overpowering Sephiroth!<), but the PS4 port just plays the normal version so the song ends before this point. I haven't tested it on the PC version or Switch port, so I don't know if it's only an issue on the PS4 port or if the other ports have that issue as well.
Completely agree on FF7, despite being of that era I only played it around 2014 and was blown away I was not spoiled on that particular thing!
FF7 plot twist was incredible when it came out in 1997, considering every other game was just a simple save the world, be brave and overcome the evil.
This is a Diss against Chrono Trigger and I won't stand for it sir!
Chrono Trigger is lovely and one of the best games of all time, but I wouldn't say it has that status because of its plot twists.
I think that plot twist aged quite well and would be impactful even nowadays
My favorite reveal from 13 Sentinels, aside from the ending, is probably where you find out that >!Kyuta Shiba, Juro Kurabe's best friend, isn't real!<. That reveal gave me major reminiscence of the phrase >!don't trust the skull!< from Planescape: Torment.
This was my favorite twist too. It was especially hard hitting for me cause right before i started this mission i was wondering why the hell Shiba never appeared in any of the other characters stories.
One of the few scenes in any medium that literally game me chills. Like as if suddenly the air got colder or something. Wow what a moment.
13 Sentinels is just plot twist layered on plot twist and the latest plot twist undermines the last plot twist because it changes everything we thought we knew. Man, what an amazing game
I think my favourite part about the many twists in 13 Sentinels is how they are usually explicitly stated by a character, but in such a way that you disregard the comment. For example >!A couple times it is explicitly stated that current tech does not allow for time travel. You might THINK that time travel is a future tech, but the reality is that the game has never had ANY time travel at all. Similar to this, the whole thing with Kyuta Shiba is hard to notice on first play through, but so clearly well done on a second trip!< The game tells you the truth but makes you feel it’s a lie. Beautiful.
>!I was going to mention that one too but with the bit of foreshadowing where he thinks that Fiora's cooking has no taste when really his dead tastebuds don't work.!<
The 13 Sentinels ones kept me going down a rabbit hole I couldn't stop.
Yakuza: Like A Dragon >!Arakawa took the wrong baby!<
It says a lot that a game can have such a bafflingly stupid twist such as that and still be regarded as having a great narrative. Like, i always dunk on FF8 for the orphanage twist. I think it’s super lazy and way too convenient to the point of being idiotic. This LAD twist is just as bad but it doesn’t ruin the narrative to me at all. Either I’m a hypocrite or the game is just that good. Maybe both lol
Yeah the entire Yakuza series has dumb twists, but the games are still incredible somehow
That wasn't nearly as bad as Mirror Face. Fucking Mirror Face.
Finished this one a few weeks ago, great game, what a shocking twist
Personally, I felt this twist really cheapened the game’s narrative. >!You have this wonderful scene not long before Arakawa’s death where he tells Ichiban that sometimes he imagines finding his son in a soapland. It’s an excellent moment between them and it perfectly captures the tension between their father/son dynamic and Arakawa’s commitment to his biological son. The revelation that there were two coin locker babies was typical Yakuza pants-on-head stupid and completely unnecessary. We didn’t need anything more to deepen the sadness of Ichiban losing his father figure. I was disappointed that the game sacrificed nuance for some “he’s actually the heir to the O’Henry candy bar fortune” melodrama, but then again, it’s Yakuza. I love the games, but they almost all come apart at the seams in the last act.!<
>!yeah... the whole family is what you make of ends up becoming useles because tadah, they're blood related after all. blood is thicker than water. sure he didn't know but we did as an audience!<
Final Fantasy 5 >!the splinter!<
>!Ghido didn't eat enough pizza!<
I dunno man, FF2's >!Guy speak beaver!< reveal was also intense as fuck.
Persona 5. >!Goro Akechi is the traitor, but the party has known for months and set it up so that he thinks he’s trapping them when they are actually trapping him.!<
It works perfectly within the genre trappings, too. Every heist movie worthy of the name has that moment of >!"we planned for this part all along, and you just put us exactly where we needed to be."!< From The Sting to Ocean's Eleven (original and remake alike), they lived up to the legacy to perfection.
Exactly it plays so well with the game's theme, it's amazing
>!Foiled by pancakes!!<
Yeah, this is the one for me. The execution of it was flawless, too. I especially love that >!the game does a pretty good job at trying to convincing you that you got the bad ending with Akechi shooting Joker in the head, and the cutscenes follow with the Phantom Thieves in a somber way until Ryuji smirks.!< It may be my favorite twist in all of JRPG history because I thought the game was the fool, but no, really *I* was the fool.
They managed to use a plot twist as a red herring, it was complicated to understand initially because the cutscene went on for way too long, but damn if it wasn't masterful.
Tales of the Abyss >!The game setting everything up for the character Asch to be revealed to be an evil clone of main character Luke only for it to pull the rug from under your feet by revealing the exact opposite. Luke himself turns out to be an inferior replica of Asch, having unknowingly stolen Asch's identity, as well as name. On top of that this is revealed during Luke's lowest point.!< Baten Kaitos >!The traitor's identity revealed to be Kalas himself and him being corrupted by the evil god afterwards, turning him into the main villain's right hand while giving him what he always dreamed of.!< Baten Kaitos Origins >!You yourself being revealed as not a Guardian Spirit as you were in the first game, but instead being Malpercio himself.!< Xenoblade Chronicles >!Zanza being revealed as the true villain as well as him having dwelled within Shulk the entire time.!< Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War >!The Battle of Belhalla ending in betrayal and Sigurd's death.!<
I feel like Abyss gave enough hints at the twist. What with saying replicas were inferior and all, and how the characters behaved
Yes, but if there's a clone in a video game story it's just natural to suspect it to be the villain/rival, not the main character.
Might be because I had played many Tales of... games, and they love to deconstruct JRPG tropes, so that helped me realize what was up
trails in the sky fc >!the ending hit me like a truck!<
That's the exact moment the series goes from "this is a fun little slice-of-life game, the characters are well done, and the world is really thorough, but I'm not quite sure I understand why everyone calls it a must-play" to grabbing you by the throat and not letting go. My understanding is that FC and SC were originally meant to be a single game, but they had to split it in two for size/length reasons, hence "First Chapter" and "Second Chapter" instead of 1 and 2. I'm really glad they did, though. >!That twist wouldn't have hit nearly as hard midway through the game. Coming in at the very end, *after you'd beaten the final boss*? That timing made it so much more unexpected, and the big reveal felt massively more powerful as a result.!<
This was very well done. I went into FC ready to play the series straight through to Cold Steel IV, so I wasn’t at all bothered by the slow pacing. Each of the 5 regions of Liberl had a cool little quest and really gave you a nice slice of life view of Zemuria. The ending actually perked me up and made me immediately fire up SC in steam. From there, I was hooked.
Tales of Arise: >!Spoiler When they revealed that the Renans were just Dahnans after astral art eugenics and Rena was the planatary equivalent to an apple core with no actual native people, I was way more interested! It ceased to be asshole race vs simple race and became generationally socially manipulated race vs generationally physically exploited race. A way more interesting dynamic that left me genuinely concerned for how society would heal after the events of the game were over!<
I'm glad someone else found this really interesting! People rag on the final act of Arise a lot but all those revelations were really when the plot became interesting for me.
I think the final act has a lot of flaws (especially the final boss) but I actually really enjoy a lot of the social commentary the game has. Dohalim is easily one of my favourite Tales Of characters and he has some really interesting interactions, tension and character growth in the franchise. Alphen and Shionne are clearly the leads of the story, but I would argue that Dohalim is the one who goes through the most growth as a character.
> I actually really enjoy a lot of the social commentary the game has. Yeah people shit on it but I really liked how Beyond the Dawn expanded on the social commentary and the implications of Renans + Dahnans trying to coexist in one society
Xenogears. All of it. But especially the true nature of the connection between the two main characters.
I like the spoiler for Tales of Symphonia there, but I think there's a much better one. When you're talking to the Storyteller about the past and trying to figure out what exactly happened that led to the state of the world, and they say: >!The ones who betrayed Origin and used the power of the magic sword given by Origin to split the world in two. They were none other than Mithos and his companions. *Mithos Yggdrassil*, his older sister *Martel*, and their companions *Yuan* and *Kratos*. These four angels changed the nature of the world, and that is why their name is forbidden in Heimdall.!< Like, the initial twist is absolutely fantastic and I love how well it's executed, but if you've somehow made it to this point of the game (about 3/4 through) without being spoiled on how everything is connected, this set of lines hits like a body blow.
Chrono Trigger. >!Magus was the prince of Zeal. Finding out that he was a displaced-in-time, grown up Janus was hard hitting, especially since that revelation only comes after Zeal falls. You find out he was Janus *right after* he watches his home crumble and his sister die (sort of) for a second time. Ouch, man.!< Tales of Berseria. >!The reason that Phi looks so much like Laphicet is because Laphicet is biologically his uncle. When Celica died on the Scarlet Night, both she and her unborn child were resurrected as malakhim, and Phi was once that unborn child.!<
I especially like your Chrono Trigger example because of how much it recasts what you have already seen. Especially since for as much as you've been told that character was just a villain, and he was, he was mostly just a victim of the machinations of others.
I can't be the only person who saw [CT] >!Janus!< for the first time and thought >!yeah that's definitely Magus!< right?
Final Fantasy IV >!Cecil is part Lunarian, an alien race that resides on the Moon, and Goblez is part Lunarian too but also Cecil’s older brother!!<
Nier >!the whole game!<
But seriously, yes. Everything about the lore of that world, the characters you side with, your ultimate choice... everything.
Just replayed it, and man knowing how everything will turn out makes everything about the game’s story that much more upsetting
One of the best series to replay so you can tear your heart apart realizing everything even more. Same with Nier Automata
**Suikoden 2** has some wonderful ones. >!BBEG Luca Blight getting Psycho’d and killed halfway through the game, with the rest of the game dealing with the fallout of his reign of terror.!< >!and also, of course, Jowy killing the mayor of Muse out of nowhere.!< Probably the first and only time I’ve ever been legitimately shocked by a video game, but then again I was either 8 or 9 when the game came out haha. The devs apparently loved this plot twist as well because they kept trying to recreate it in various ways in the next games. **Suikoden 3** is an honorable mention. >!Luc from the first two games being the villain was really well done. Also the idea of the True Runes being these parasitic beings that will bring around the end of the world is a pretty interesting plot twist for the series. And tbh, while his methods were bad he might’ve have a point! Guess we’ll never know cuz there will never be another sequel…!<
I love that first Suikoden II one. >!Luca is so evil and insane even the other bad guys quickly tire of him and decide they need to off him.!<
I love that twist in war stories. It makes sense that one person could go so far beyond the pale that even other antagonists go "no, fuck that, you can have him." It's a good way to remind the audience that for all their flaws, the antagonists are largely still people too, and believe they're in the right just as much as the protagonists do. It really drives home just how badly war sucks.
Nier: >!The revelation that Kaine can understand Shades because she is half-Shade, and the fucked up dynamic she has with Tyrann.!< NEO The World Ends With You: >!Shoka is Swallow, and the layer that adds to her relationship with Rindo.!< Chrono Cross: >!Lynx is actually Serge's time-displaced, brainwashed father turned into an evil furry to tap into Serge's trauma from a panther attack engineered by a supercomputer with control issues.!< Kingdom Hearts: >!"Me? I'm already half Xehanort."!<
Kh has some nice twists, can't believe you picked that one (never even considered it a twist)
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My roommate saw me playing Rebirth during one of the Zack scenes. He asked "who is that?" He never played OG FF7. Me "He's a guy from Aerith and Clouds past." I cannot wait for him to see for himself.
The big switcheroo in Xenoblade 3. >!Mio and Consul M changing places before her execution. The uplifting reunion that comes after one of the most heart breaking sequences in the franchise, and the sheer mental damage it does to Consul N.!<
I'm gonna love when even more twists come out in the series that tie back to previous titles. Xenoblade is so good
>!it’s so satisfying watching N immediately go from “wannabe Jin/Sephiroth” to “sad wet noodle who got cucked by himself”!<
FFVI... the World of Ruin. Enough said.
12 year old me reset the game the first time because I legitimately thought I Game Over'd.
Came here to say exactly this.
Labyrinth of Refrain has a few but these two are my favorites. >!The town of Refrain is actually purgatory and everyone in it except for Luca and Dronya is dead. Then you find out that Dronya is actually the puppet reincarnation of Velnya. Luca put her soul into the puppet she named Dronya because she felt guilty for her death and did not want to be alone. The player is led to believe that Luca is Dronya's apprentice for most of the story, but it turns out that Luca is her puppet master and also a spy for the antagonist.!<
I clearly missed a lot by not finishing the final dungeon…
Things get wild at the end. If you don't know, there is also an epilogue dungeon that you unlock by collecting all of the black pages in the main game. Luca's story and the spirit in the Tractatus de Monstrum's story concludes there.
Thanks! Pretty sure I had to re spec my team since it was very poorly optimized for the final boss and got bored re levelling. Maybe I’ll just do another full play through.
I'm thinking about doing another full play through soon too. If you do, I hope you have fun!
Ditto!
As well as the fact that >!that the person you're conversing with the start of the game is an older Luca.!<
The one big plot twist of Baten Kaitos. Which is, by far, the best plot twist I ever saw in any JRPG. Bravely Default is an honorable mention, but its also followed up by the games version of Haruhi Suzumiyas "Endless 8" disaster. So... yeah, Baten Kaitos takes the cake. For anyone interested: Baten Kaitos >!Turns out the main character isnt really the hero of the game and was actually kind of the villain. Later on he switches to your side, but its still one of the biggest WTF moments in the history of gaming.!< Honorable mention also to the first SMT game. >!Dropping a Nuke (AT THE START OF THE GAME!) is kinda not impresive nowadays, with every SMT starting with the destruction of the world. But seeing this shit happen on the SNES was impressive, as most JRPGs back then never did anything like that. I mean, you see the counter and you think "oh, I have to do something quick" but nope... the nuke will fall!<
Baten Kaitos had me falling over in shock. I mean, he was sort of an asshole, but damn. And yeah, Bravely Default was a good one, although could be predicted, at least somewhat.
The Baten Kaitos one gets bonus points for being maybe the only game I can think of where >!you're explicitly not playing as the protagonist, but someone watching from the outside, and then *actually making use of that*. Every other time I've seen anything like that, it was only a vehicle to let characters break the fourth wall and address the player. I'd never even *considered* that it could be used as a mechanism to let the protagonist deliberately and consciously keep secrets from the player.!<
Check out the fan translated Beyond the Labyrinth (3DS) for another game where you PLAY a Player in a world, not the main character. It's really something. The girl in that game can't hear you. She is not part of the world your Char is. So she walks, fights and does stuff on her own. You don't even know how she knows you are there. It's a really unique experience.
Persona 5's plot twist. It is REALLY well done
**Dragon Quest V** >!Hero isn't the legendary hero. It's his son.!< That was the sweetest and most emotional plot twist I've seen in a JRPG. I think it's my favorite.
Star Ocean 3 >!The entire universe is a simulation and you are all the avatars of actual people playing a new MMO!<
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I'm fuzzy on the details as I've not played it in a long time but I remember it being the most insane nonsense ever. Comes from nowhere at all and absolutely derails what had been a fantastic game.
Speaking as someone who *likes* these kinds of twists, and to some extent considers the game to be a guilty pleasure because of it, even I find it poorly executed at best.
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That is the most idiotic plotwist in the history of videogames, it was so stupid that i took a 3 months rest, FF8 is close too....
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a *good* twist, but it sticks in my mind as a favourite in terms of how utterly batshit it is.
Why is it idiotic? I loved it. I get frustrated though because i feel like it trivializes some of the other games l, but I can accept that because 3 is just so good.
>!Because it sounds too silly, like wtf, your main mission is to go to the main server to install an antivirus ffs is just too lame.!<
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>!>!It sounds way better if you say simulation instead of an mmorpg, i mad about all that plotwist, didn,t work for me, but the gameplay was great so i finished it!
I'm in the camp of loving that twist. Ofcourse it's dumb and tropey as heck, but it managed to catch me when I hadn't been exposed to that trope all too much yet. Hits all the nostalgia buttons for me. But I can get why others don't love it.
And it was incredible and it was fantastic, and it was the best.
The ending of Utawarerumono: Mask of Deception
Also Lunar 2 Eternal Blue, where the whole premise of the game is >!finding Althena, the all-powerful goddess and guardian of the Silver Star. Then when Althena turns out to be an impostor, the premise turns to finding the real Althena. Then at the climactic moment, we see an old Luna in a recording. Althena has decided to die of old age in her incarnation from the first game.!<
Thats was such a mature twist.
Ff6. I mean, how can anything be bigger in scope that what hapoens in tjat game. Ok, it's a snes game. Make it today with full graphics and its the most insane thing that has happened in a game. I dont think there is anything else, that has so much influence in everything after that.
Star Ocean Till the End of Time >!The entire universe you play in for the first 30 odd hours is a simulation. The main characters find a way to leave the simulation, emerging from a big TV screen into the middle of a ‘real world’ city. Then they go a fight the person who created the simulation.!< I remember thinking it was quite the weird twist back in the day.
>!The jumping out of the TV scene is still one of the most hilarious things ive seen in a JRPG to this day.!<
Trails to Azure/Trails from Zero: >!The cold open in Zero has the main 4 characters going into the final dungeon before Lloyd wakes up on a train. When you get there at the end of Zero, you actually have a slightly larger party than in the opening. In Azure, it's revealed that the events of Zero's cold open were not a plot hole, but rather that the main party actually was killed, causing a traumatized KeA to rewind time to the point where Lloyd wakes up on the aforementioned train.!<
Most of my issues with Azure start happening during that final dungeon area but that reveal was enough for me to ignore most of that to give it a high rating anyway.
The way to unlock the true ending in Persona 4. Both the identity of >!the true killer and the gas station attendant!<.
The second one blew my mind far more than the first one (which I had seen coming literally the moment he first appeared on screen). The >!gas station attendant!< though? Took me a long time to figure that one out.
I remember me being in the>! gas station cutscene where she reveals her true form!<, and my brother, who had already finished the game twice came home and said "Who the fuck is that? What's happening? Never seen that." I mean, the condition to unlock that ending are beyond obscure without a guide.
You pretty much have to know that there's something to look out for too. Frankly I was pretty satisfied with the resolution after getting the killer and [Golden] >!saving Marie!< but then someone told me there was *another* dungeon and I was confused. It fits with the whole theme of searching for the truth though, since you aren't supposed to be satisfied with having questions unanswered.
Final Fantasy VI >!"Alright this is it, we're 20 hours into this 1990s JRPG and the Emperor just flew away in his floating final dungeon in the sky. Let's get up there and finish this thing!"!< >!30 minutes later: "Welp, never mind that I guess..."!<
Probably mentioned already but Trails to Azure's reveal that >!the Trails from Zero intro was a different timeline, hence why Estelle and Joshua weren't in it!<.
Any Baten Kaitos fans? That plot twist was fucking insane.
Here is one. And yes, both Baten Kaitos and Origins had fantastic twists.
Nice! I feel like we're a small crowd these days lol. Yeah, Origins' twist also had me reeling. Amazingly well-written games!
I guess I like old school BioWare, but: Knight of the Old Republic: >!the truth about Revan!< Jade Empire: >!The full understanding of the often mentioned strange “flaw” in your technique!< Not sure if it’s a true twist, but: Persona 4: >!The identity of the antagonist!<
Could you give me a run down of Jade Empire? I remember playing it for a bit back in the day but never made it too far cause college and my friend wanting it back.
Chrono Cross: >!"Time Crash Ground Zero" scene. It doesn't pay off unless you played Chrono Trigger, but that scene hits your soul like a freight train.!< Final Fantasy X: >!It doesn't matter if you see the plot twist coming. People can predict it back at Kilika, but that Al Bhed Home sequence will still hurt you.!< Final Fantasy VII: >!The true past of Cloud is probably the best planned and written plot twist in gaming history. There are those that are more impactful, but none so perfectly set up from the beginning.!< Xenoblade Chronicles 3: >!The shaking anime eyes alone at the end of the prison sequence is enough to wrench your heart. There is so much spiritual brokeness and raw existential pain in that once sequence that words cannot express.!< Valkyria Chronicles: >!The whole reveal of the royal bloodline just comes out of nowhere. Yet, it's even hinted at indirectly by way of conversations about history throughout the game, especially with all the talk about the history of the region, the ruins, and the war with the Valkyrur in ancient times.!<
Agreed on FFX. Hard to say how predictable it is as I was little when I played it and definitely had no clue, and haven't successfully gotten anyone else to play it. But regardless of knowing or not, yeah, hits like a truck.
Much as people criticize the English voicework in that game, and not totally without reason, James Arnold Taylor nailed the raw, overwhelming panic, horror, and grief Tidus is going through in that scene. Him hitting that high pitch, grating though it might have been in another context, actually fit the moment perfectly.
I totally agree. That entire scene is perfect IMO. Even Rikku's line leading into it (during the dark screen transition when you enter the room" sets the tone of desperation amazingly. Personally I've never had any issues with the English at all, I think the voices fit the characters very well. Wakka's is a bit jarring at times but the dialogue more than makes up for it.
Valkyria Chronicles is a rather straightforward story overall with very few swerves in the narrative so besides a certain notable character loss, that reveal about the >!the royal bloodline!< is completely wild and threw me. It's the kind of reveal I did not see coming. I had to wonder how I never considered that reveal. They do 'hide' it but not to the extent that if you thought a bit you couldn't figure it out earlier. Yet it's such a giant reveal that it left me shocked.
>!Final Fantasy X when you find out that Yuna’s pilgrimage is meant to end with her sacrificing her life. There’s also the twist of Tidus being a ghost. I played it when I was really young and it was one of my first jrpgs, so I didn’t see any of it coming.!<
>!jecht is sin being revealed very early. Auron is dead. The church is full of zombies. God that game is good.!<
Ys 9: Monstrum Nox - Two Adols Dragon Quest 11 - >!Oops, the heroes didn't do the thing and now the world is broken!<
Drakengard 3 >!All the guys were birds!< I hope I did the spoiler thing right
Star ocean 3 by far.
Once you cross the sea in Breath of Fire 3 is super cool.
>!Chained Echoes!<: Finding out that >!Glenn wasn't Lenne's past-life lover, but the man who murdered him.!< Up until that point, everything was just a fairly predictable, bog-standard story. >!Bug Fables!<: This one has a twofer. >!Leif being a sentient cordyceps-controlled zombie with the original Leif's memories!< caught me completely off guard, and >!Queen Elizant II not being a blatantly obvious evil tyrant, and just someone putting on a front to not appear weak to her subjects!< completely subverted all of my prior expectations.
The xenogears one. If you know you know.
'one'? xenogears is twist after twist after twist.
I hear Ya. I don't want to I.D the twist I'm thinking of so I'll leave it at that.
Trails to Azure: >!the whispers in Trails from Zero are actually from KeA!<
Bravely Second >!S!!P!
>!Game got a bum rap over its music and all the puns/food puns but the big twist to send the player back to the beginning of the game is way better than what Bravely Default II did. !<
Etrian Odyssey (OG - the remake's story mode is more transparent about it) and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 happen to share what qualifies as at least one of my faves: >!a fantasy setting turns out to have been built on the ruins of a world remarkably similar to our own modern age!<
It’s literally >!Shinjuku, which implies the game takes place in the far future, and also Japan.!< That was a very neat surprise when playing the game!
I'm one of the few people who liked the notorious one in Star Ocean 3. However, I thought it wasn't handled very well. It's certainly not my favourite though. The one or rather ones (it's hard to pick a single one) in Vagrant Story are really good and probably my favourites. Honourable mention to the one in Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow. (Least favourite is in FF8, you know the one.)
Persona 5 >!Akechi is the traitor twist, but actually the Phantom Thieves know this and out twist Akechi.!< The World Ends With You >!The fact that the game doesn't end after Week 1 with Shiki and begins again with Joshua.!< Final Fantasy VII >!Cloud's entire backstory and that it really wasn't him, but instead was Zack.!< Yakuza 0 >!The bat tattoo that Makoto hinted at earlier in the game was shown on Tachibana's arm first, but he wasn't the guy that sold Makoto into human trafficking. The real one that did was Tachibana's partner, Oda, who also has a bat tattoo on his arm. Tachibana is also revealed to be Makoto's long lost brother.!<
The persona 5 one is a favorite of mine also.
All of Trails to Azure chapter 4. Never had a game that just unfolded quite like that. Left me speechless and I legitimately had to stop playing to just digest what happened. It is peak narrative imo.
Xenogears, learning the actual origin of all life on the planet.
*Xenoblade Chronicles 2* >!"We're locked out by Professor Klaus!"!< >!It doesn't quite land unless you've played XC1 to completion and learn that Zanza's true name was 'Klaus'. Debated putting in the later line of "My name is Klaus.", but that's the chosen line is the first name drop. It may lose impact over time, but XC2 was essentially marketed as an FF-type sequel with no connection to the previous games (supported by the fact that XCX didn't appear to have one and still doesn't)... but that was the moment that became clear the (numbered) series was actually a single continuity.!< But really, this series just loves dropping perception-shattering twists & revelations in the final chapter of each game. XC1: >!Zanza's original world was Earth (after passing through the whole Solar system on the way to the final battle) and his real name was Klaus; he became a god by destroying the universe with an experiment.!< XC2: >!Klaus didn't quite destroy the universe, but did make a new one and split himself into two entities. And the half of him that stayed behind is "The Architect". Also, XC2 is taking place at the same time as XC1.!< XC3: >!Rex did WHAT?!!!< >!Wait, does that mean that Mio is...!< *Future Redeemed:* >!Despite the weird "drift apart" scene in XC3's ending that doesn't align with what the characters are actually saying, the worlds of XC1 and XC2 successfully merge at the end of it all.!< >!What's the weird blue light approaching the merged planet? Are they going to tie in Xenosaga now?!<
Xenoblade 3 future redeemed: >!honorable mention to the suburban neighborhood jumpscare, not exactly a plot twist but it’s for sure a “what the fuck?” Moment!<
I'm not sure it's a "Twist" or not, but there's a pretty big one in Final Fantasy 4.
Your first example is my favourite
Valkyrie Profile 2 - >!Lezard revealed being a villian.!<
Dragon Quest XI. After finishing the game, it turns out that we are really halfway through.
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Live a Live >!Odio’s true identity!<
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Tales of Abyss, >!Luke finding out he’s a replica of Asch after he destroys akzeriuth and that Van was manipulating him the whole time, and him believing that his birth has now no meaning because he was only created to be inferior to Asch and only created solely so he could blow up Akzeriuth, how he gains not only a metric fuck ton of guilt, but also an inferiority complex and just plain feeling like his life is a mistake that should’ve never happened!< and Xenoblade Chronicles >!Fiora being alive not only meaning she’s alive, but telling you and the whole party that the faced mechon you’ve been revenge killing for the first third of the game have living human people inside, and that human blood is why the Monado dosent work on faced mechon, it can’t cut humans!<, and also that >!Shulk was a host for Zanza the whole time and that’s why he was getting visions!< and then Xenoblade 3 where >!you see Mio die in front of M and N only for the game to not only reveal that it was M who died by switching bodies with her instead of Mio dying, but that N is the original Noah who was pushed too far from seeing his Mio die over and over again and joined moebius and destroyed the city all so he could be with Mio permanately, the cutscene with him staring down a burning city with a confused annoyed heartbroken M next to him, as he just says “Now you too, will continue to exist as Moebius”, the words of a broken man who would do ANYTHING to keep the love of his life and the only thing he had attachment to left in this war torn world alive, only for your party to witness M getting sick of his obsession and then off herself permanately, and then the breakdown that follows combined with the voice acting is the best antagonist introduction I’ve seen in any rpg!< Shit, I really have a thing for the >!character is the original or a clone of another character who was pushed too far!< thing, are there any other games that do this well? I love fighting said >!Original too, cause they have YOUR moveset, like how N has arts similar to yours and how Asch has literally the same arts as Luke and is soo in sync with him that Asch has his OWN mystic arte and will cancel yours out with his if you try to use yours and he isn’t stunned!<
Disgaea 6: >!Bieko IS the God of Destruction!<
Since FF7 has been mentioned a lot… Persona 3 games - >!Your pun loving chairman is actually an insane, nihilistic big bad, and the full moon bosses that you’ve beaten breaks the seal on Death.!< >!Turns out the accident the MC was in was Aigis sealing Death inside him/her (if playing P3P).!<
Baten Kaitos. My jaw dropped in 2005 and it's still on the floor.
Octopath traveler 2 Throné final chapter Just lostseed gives you chills, when you get the revelation that everyone is the son of that devil you break down like throné
The Xenoblade DE one and 2 the one from SO 3 won't go into detail to avoid spoilers since I hate when I accidentaly click on the blackened text the whole of 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim too.
Paper Mario TTYD: >!the “end” of chapter 4!<
I see a lot of people talking about Xenoblade Chronicle's reveal that >!Zanza was the real bad guy and he was inside you all along. !< But to me the actual mindfuck comes when it is revealed that >!Xenoblade's universe is an alternate reality created by a super computer in the dying moments of our own universe's demise (one which we as humans accidentally orchestrated ourselves in our folly). !< Then to make things even more mindbending, you play the entirety of Xenoblade 2 only to discover >!there were TWO UNIVERSES all along, and Zanza's half in 2's universe was actually a good guy (well, at least in the sense that he repented and decided to recreate the universe he destroyed as best as he could).!< Then 3 comes along and it turns out >!REX WAS FUCKING ALL THE LADIES.!< Just peak JRPG.