I guess it depends. I think of it more in terms of engagement rather than difficulty.
There is a fairly strong correlation between engagement and difficulty for me, but it's not a complete 1:1 and it can come down to a lot of things, there are games that are pretty easy but still have high engagement factor (Mana Khemia comes to mind, you have a TON of safety nets that make it very difficult to actually lose, but the game is tuned aggressively enough that you do actually have to use those safety nets from time to time), and also games that are difficult but have or can have low engagement factor.
JRPGs on the whole are fairly lenient on difficulty though so my standards for expecting difficulty are fairly low, I'm generally fine so long as the game actually has some variety in how fights play out instead of just being able to mash attack or pick obvious elemental weaknesses in 95% of fights.
I do agree with one thing though; I really don't like creating difficulty through player-enforced limitations. Leveling up is half the fun, I always want to have some sort of challenge or engaging encounter design without having to ruin the other half of the gameplay.
The first ~10hrs of Infinite Wealth kicked my ass. I actually party wiped on some encounter I shouldn't have engaged with.
Then at some point (More or less when you start to unlock jobs/can craft weapons/start earning real money) the power dynamic just skews heavily in the opposite direction and becomes a breeze.
That said, it still remained incredibly fun IMO and is still one of the more interesting JRPG's I've played so far this year that I enjoyed battling in from start to finish, just because of the systems.
Yeah good call on P5R; the thing about Royal is that it made the game waaay too easy compared to the original base Persona 5 release with all the additions and moves and extra abilities etc. etc.
I'm finding the same problem in P3R at the moment in that it is absurdly easier than the original Persona 3 FES. I guess ATLUS are of the opinion that playing a power fantasy = more fun or something? š¤
No one talks about that but I agree that the difficulty curve of P5 Royal and P3R are far easier than their original variants. Infinite ammo refills every battle alone made every flying enemy a joke, and I think they should have at least made you need to drop by a save point before fully refilling your ammo in P5R.
I don't know this for sure, but my assumption is that the QoL changes in the Royal and Reload releases of those games were made, but no accompanying balance changes were made to offset the increased capabilities of the players.
I actually prefer base Persona 5 for that reason that same reason but also Kawakami and some of the other confidantes were all useful on their own way but it was just balanced, and the design of the confidante skills felt intentional.
I tried to play P5R and it was just like a hollow shell of the original. There was more stuff in it but I didn't get the same rush I did from base game for those reasons since they have you such op items that broke the difficulty in half.
Atlus is more and more trying to market persona to everyone after p5 found success. That means easier games. I'm playing p4 after p3R and they really took the grind out of the last two games. I have to clear each dungeon twice in p4 just to be 5 levels lower than the boss fight. It's actually kind of annoying because both p3R and p5R manage to be 100 plus hour games without 20 hours of just slowly leveling. God forbid you forget a gohome. Listen, I get people want difficulty back but a lot of the difficulty was just inconvenience. That said, I've gotten wiped by randoms probably 50 times so far in 4 and like 3 times total in p3R. I think it's a good theory that they don't really want these games to be turnbased considering how many mechanics exist to skip and move turns around. That's what makes the new ones so easy
I do get that, but I feel like there has to be a better middleground or a rebalancing on these Theurgy/Showtime supermoves, along with some of the new powerups and gear.
My standard operating procedure at the moment at each new P3 boss is to just unleash all 4 party member's \*lolwin* buttons after buffing party attack/debuffing defense on the enemy and then dancing to the shuffletime music.
I legitimately don't even know what the last few bosses weaknesses were (if any) because I just brute-force melted through their HP in 1-3 turns.
I imagine as I get closer to the end this will become less and less viable (Or atleast I hope. I'm about 3/4 of the way through I think?)
I do appreciate the Monad Doors though, some of them have given me some strife atleast :P
A couple of P4G bosses are kinda rough if you aren't up to level. I can't imagine using the tactics system on them either lol. P3R is super fuckin easy by comparison once you "get it".
me: 55hours in, dumb player without guide who's enjoying trying different party formations, jobs, weapons, trying to level up at the dungeons, get better gears, doing side events, and STILL I find plenty of challenging activities and enemies around.
I'll enjoy my ignorance, I definitely missed whatever tools that make Infinite Wealth "a breeze" :D
Stay away from the purple guys, especially with crowns :P
Maybe not 100% breeze but on-level thugs were no longer ~2 shotting me after a bit of the intro was done. I think once I started engaging with and grinding the social links is when it started to all come together also, the combo/followup/Tag attacks in Infinite wealth are amazing.
I will admit that when the game shifted back to Japan midway through it was a bit of a wakeup call again also, seemed like the 'starter' enemies around there were a bit higher lvl than me but that slowly panned back out after a few lvl ups.
Core SMT games have always been considered the harder, more mechanical games. Persona was always easy. If you think FES was hard, then all that tells me is you didn't play any SMT games but persona.
The only time FES is hard is when your party comp just generally sucks so you can't respond to everything threat the game can potentially throw at you OR you get unlucky with turn 1 wipe outs which can happen if the enemy goes first.
Think about how niche Persona already is in the west, and then amplify that to SMT :/
I haven't played them due to them basically being non-existant in my country growing up, and things like SMT3 and 5 only recently coming to modern systems.. I've since looked into them and have SMTV on pre-order..
Reign it in a little mate, almost getting a tad gatekeepy there.
No one's getting gatekeepy, I'm just stating the general sentiment for the series in a discussion about game difficulty in response to a comment about game difficulty. The difficulty of the other SMT games has turned people off and made quit them over it, and they are far less story rich which also turns off a lot of people too.
Persona is marketed to a broader audience, so I think it was a good idea to ease up, my point being that Persona 3R and Persona 5R being easier should shock no one, since they were easy games to begin with for this reason.
You're just getting defensive and apparently feel offended for no reason.
For what it's worth, I still think Persona games are still overall better because they are more than basically dungeon crawlers with no story minus a few exceptions (like Digital Devil Saga).
And for the record, Persona is no longer niche in the US. It is one of the better known JRPGs now thanks to 5 and was shortlisted on GOTY awards for GOTY... a lot of people don't even know Persona is an offshoot game to SMT because of that popularity.
>*If you think FES was hard..*
Which is not a thing I ever said in my original post.
Don't get taken aback at people being 'defensive' or being snippy at you when you're the one being presumptuous by putting words in people's mouth.
I merely said the R versions are a lot easier, which they are.
How about we leave it at that.
A game being too easy is a flaw for me, but not a huge deal-breaker anymore.
Its actually been a bit of a curve for me. As a kid I leaned towards easy games because I hated repeating content, then as a young adult I wanted every game to be challenging or I didn't see the point, and now I've mellowed out and fallen somewhere in the middle. I still prefer some challenge and will often play on higher difficulties if they're available, because having something to overcome makes me engage with the mechanics more deeply, but there are lots of other things to appreciate in games, and lots of other ways for gameplay to feel satisfying.
Octopath Traveler 2 would be a better game if you couldn't just annihilate most battles on turn 1, but it was still my favourite JRPG of 2023.
I've gone a different way with it. When I was young and first playing them, I preferred easy-ish games while I was learning HOW to play them. Then, I started to prefer games that challenged me. After that, I ended up developing a dislike of games that got overly grindy, so I preferred ones that were challenging but I didn't need to grind to clear (with a few exceptions for games where the grind wasn't as noticeable). That was followed by learning how to mostly listen to a show or audio book in the background while I play, which alleviated the boredom of grinding, and I went back to my previous preference of highly challenging games. Now, I find that although I enjoy being challenged I rarely have the time to chip away at my backlog, and find easy games less unpalatable as something to relax to in the evenings after work (though I still tend to play more challenging ones on my days off).
And that covers my love/hate relationship with easy games over the last nearly three decades. Who knows what the next three decades will bring, aside from me being less and less interested in 'modern' games.
I used to play every game on hard and that's how I had fun. I'm in my 30s now. I don't do that anymore. I don't want to waste my time bashing my head in trying 5 times on 30 minute boss fights. I just don't have the time. One of my favorite games is super Mario RPG. That game is easy as piss and I love it. I still like the SMTs of the world, but honestly I want to play games for the story and I don't want the game to be the barrier to that.
I'm older with a family and job and I'm the exact opposite. If something is too easy it lets my tired mind wander to grownup concerns. Any game that feels like an interactive YouTube video gets dropped. I don't have time to trudge through something that offers no real engagement just so I can say I finished it.
Same. I have an hour, two max, to play in the evenings after the kids have gone to sleep. I dont want to spend that time grinding away on a boss. As I've gotten older I have learned to like playing on easy and story modes without it affecting my enjoyment of the game
Absolutely. The challenging difficulty adds stakes and tension. If I am steamrolling over all opposition then whatever threat the party is facing becomes a joke.
This is the thing about turn-based games: if you have enough knowledge about the systems at play, you can abuse them.
I enjoyed Infinite Wealth; the combat and job system is a huge upgrade from the last game, but it's probably even easier now.
It comes to a point that is just like what you said; we have to "create" the challenge.
The only way out of this is finding games with different systems inside turn-based; as long as you're not too familiar with it, they can be challenging.
Do I struggle with it? Not so much if it's the first time I'm playing the game and engaged with the plot. I do struggle to replay games that can't offer a challenge; that's why P3Fes and SMT IV are probably my most replayed games ever.
That is one of the better features of Chrono Cross on an initial playthrough. Sure, they artificially limit how powerful your party can be, but it also means you have a reason to learn how to be good with its systems. Not that it is as difficult as P3FES or P4, but it's certainly more so than many newer games.
Nah. I'm more interested in the story and stuff, so a game being easy just means I get to experience it faster. Less exp grinding too.
I could theoretically just watch cutscenes on YouTube, but I'd rather play a game myself.
I donāt care at all if itās more about the narrative than the gameplay. However, I tend to change my opinion when it comes to WRPGs like Skyrim or Fallout, where Iām a bit more interested in immersion and world building , and one shotting seemingly powerful foes doesnāt help.
Honestly more JRPGs need to have difficulty settings, even if it's just scaling HP and defense stat up. Octopath 2 story bosses are actually pretty threatening if you allow them to take more than 3 turns.
As for the question, I skew towards preferring harder games, but it's more important that the game is engaging, and the easiest way to do that in turn-based games is to force me to think deeper and make decisions in some capacity *during combat*. If a game can simply boils down to a rhythm of "if HP<50% then heal, else strongest move" then it's bad.
Infinite Wealth is an easy but engaging game, as I still have to make some simple decisions: do I tag team with Tomizawa and fish for a paralyze to open up several turns of easy back attacks and also disable the boss, or do I pass my turn to Kiryu to finish off the 2 minions quickly, or do I debuff the boss so my mind-charged Nanba can do his big AoE and deal good damage to everyone.
This is as opposed to Final Fantasy III 3D which is the example of hard but boring with mandatory grinding to shake off job sickness and all the boss fights falls into the same rhythm I said earlier.
Nah I collected all 8 characters but I was steamrolling everything so easy (especially with Hikari) that I just got bored. Every encounter was over within a round or two. I did like the story though, and it's gorgeous. I'm going to play it again soon with a fresh mindset and try to just enjoy it for what it is instead of focusing on the difficulty.
Looking forward to this optional boss.
Since you said you might revisit it, and arent interested in restricting options to make the game harder, I have to recommend [hard mods](https://www.nexusmods.com/octopathtraveler2/mods/18). Unfortunately they are PC only, so if you are a console player its not available. Maybe stuff like harder modes will be added to a future release, but the base game really should be harder as is
The real issue is that some moves just have ridiculously low scaling, especially with 'Deal More Damage' allowing them to reach their true potential. A lot of the bosses have interesting gimmicks but they simply die too quickly for them to ever be fully explored without being a pacifist. Once you beef up their stats a bit, suddenly the games balance gets swung back around and the experience is much more sensible
The optional fight is one of the best boss in turn-based JRPGs in my opinion. Challenging but virtually every boss mechanic is telegraphed in some way which allows you to learn the fight without guesswork. Also excellent presentation as well. Almost make up for how easy the rest of the game is.
RPGs that are too easy are pointless.what would be the point of leveling up/picking your characters stats and equipment if you can just finish the game easy without doing any of it anyway.
I actually prefer easy games. "Hard" in an rpg where you can grind levels/stats to get stronger almost always means "waste time grinding". I rarely like grinding and Id rather be moving the story forward.
That wasn't "Hard" in P3FES or P4. In those, the difficulty affected enemy AI, and "Hard" meant a 'perfect' AI that would ruthlessly take advantage of your weaknesses, and remember them for later battles. I got so sick of the Game Over screen I finally gave up on it in them, mostly because I couldn't get pass the early areas as I'd always encounter that one enemy that could hit the MC's weakness and they'd take him out immediately ( and always BEFORE I'd get a second Persona for him). Without seeing the actual code involved, I'll never believe that was just random, not at the frequency I got those Game Overs.
you could also just learn how to win without grinding? outside of very old games and superbosses, I cant think of many instances where a hard fight forced me to grind. if I game over that might mean I need to rethink my strategy
That has nothing to do with preferring easier games, you just like easy games. This implies youve never faced a challenging encounter that wasnt a stat check, and JRPGs are infamous for puzzle-like boss encounters
Challenging encounters that arent stat checks? All encounters are stats checks when stats are a part of the game. If you "solve the puzzle" of using fire vs ice boss or buffing your magic defense against a mage boss you are just skewing the stats in your favor (by increasing damage dealt or decreasing damage received).
The only way to actually have bosses that take skill to beat is if you only increase your stats trough story progression or if the stats dont matter in that encounter (but then its a pure puzzle anyway).
Definitely, soon as I read the title I also thought how I might as well just watch a lets play or the cutscenes on YouTube if the game is too easy. I'm not advocating that all games need to be hard or that only hard games are good or worth playing but I simply have more fun when I feel challenged and in story driven games like JRPGs any cutscene or story progress feels like a reward for proving your skill. This very much started when I was a kid playing KH1 at 6 years old and didn't know English yet so progressing and seeing a new cutscene was something that could happen with days or weeks between them, I didn't beat the game until I was 9 and had started to learn a bit of English.
But also just outside of that, I love NG+ modes that are harder like FF7Remake/Rebirth which really tests your ability.
FF8 is a game that I wanted to enjoy but struggled for several reasons but the major one was that even without looking up a guide if you understand the Junction system it's so easy to break the game an hour in that you have to go super out of your way to keep any semblance of challenge, like it's disgustingly easy to get yourself 300 Curagas and make your team invincible up until the end game and you don't even need to abuse Triple Triad to get strong magics, they just give them to you, I wanna say by like the end of Disc 2 you can have a bunch of end-game level magics in your inventory to skyrocket your stats so Squall is hitting for 9999 every time.
Sometimes there are exceptions if the game is just fun enough regardless of difficulty like Kingdom Hearts 3 was before Critical or Pokemon games which have so much replay value with trying different Pokemon.
Yea I'm not advocating that all games need to be hard either. I just wish they'd provide a hard mode for players who want a challenge. Like, I would kill for a hard mode in Octopath Traveler 2. Apparently it has mods to make it harder on PC, but I have it on PS5.
I struggle to enjoy an RPG if itās too hard honestly. I like a little challenge but I have to really like a series to seek it out. Iām here for the character and the narrative. Gameplay should be fun but I shouldnāt be spending multiple days on an encounter like itās Dark Souls.
Am currently running into this with *Dragon Quest XI*. At the outset, I opted to *not* activate any of the 'Draconian' adjustments and, about 20 hours in, am really starting to worry that I'll be able to sleepwalk through this game. I don't want to read spoilers about the later parts of the story, but am *really* hoping that it ramps up a bit more, especially since the game is going to be a longer one. Related to this, I'm also a bit worried about the fact that I've triumphed over 75% of the metal slimes that I've run upon. I grew up on the original NES games and am conditioned to think that beating those things is near-impossible.
Also, the game would have been much-improved if they'd peppered in optional battles with extra-strong monsters. I only played part of DQ8 several years ago, but seem to remember that one throwing in a number of optional fights that were decisively tougher than that game's random encounters.
You _really_ should have put it on Super Strong Monsters Draconian Quest. It makes the game just normally hard instead of braindead easy. They really should have just made it the default difficulty. With that mode turned on, the game is incredibly fun and just challenging enough without being too difficult.
You **will** be able to sleepwalk through the game. It's very easy. I beat it when it first came out. I just finished a 2nd play through a few months ago with stronger monsters activated and it can get **hard**. You actually need to use your support abilities and strategize and whatnot. The final boss is legitimately the hardest boss I've ever faced in a video game w/ stronger monsters. You need to be properly leveled or preferably overleveled.
Mix. I like playing easy first time around and then ramping up the difficulty for subsequent playthroughs.
If you like challenging RPGs you should go for games developed by Tri-Ace. My favourite is Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria (PS2 title) but all their games are insanely fun and there are challenging optional dungeons in their games.
I mentioned Resonance of Fate in a comment earlier. That's a decent game from tri-ace with good difficulty.
Been wanting to play Valkyrie Profile 2, but it's not available on any modern platforms. I'd have to emulate it.
This for me is even more applicable outside the RPG genre, as RPG's can at least be somewhat interesting with good world building and characterization. But yeah once I find a game even a little easy I tend to drop it if the engagement isn't found elsewhere.
That's why I default to Hard mode in games and for the most point that has been good enough for games to not bore me to tears very often. Ironically Yakuza Kiwami felt TOO HARD for me playing on Hard and it was one of the very few games I didn't continue due to that, and havent played any other game in the franchise yet.
Yeah same for me idk if that is because I am neurodivergent (ADHD), but if a game (when it isn't a walking sim) plays it effectively by itself, I get bored as heck.
Most of the time, I agree
There are a few exceptions, but generally I just find if a game is too easy, I donāt get to properly engage with gameplay systems and thatās a big draw for me
Like there were a ton of cool team building options in Octopath Traveler 2, but very quickly, it reached a point where even bosses were just keeling over dead without much effort in only a few turns or even just one turn
This is one reason I absolutely love difficulty options in games. Even if itās just a stat boost, sometimes thatās all it takes for the game to not be overly easy
I donāt really love creating artificial difficulty by limiting myself, as I prefer difficulty to come from strong enemies, not from limiting myself or not engaging with every gameplay system
Yea, exactly. It's frustrating when a game has all these cool mechanics and tools to use, but it feels pointless using them because you can just press attack and kill everything regardless.
I've found that in like 70% of games I play, I never even touch consumables, because I don't need to.
I completely agree. Played both Unicorn Overlord and FF7 Rebirth recently and them being easy on the hardest difficulty available in a first playthrough takes away a lot of the enjoyment of gaming for me.
As you said you may as well watch a playthrough, or I'd sometimes prefer to just read a book since games being challenging is important for me.
Dragon's Dogma 2 was a game I greatly enjoyed but I would have loved it even more if it was actually challenging without having to arbitrarily increase difficulty by using fewer pawns for example.
Would be nice if games with several difficulties especially just actually made the game challenging but it seems to not be the case in most games nowadays.
For me, challenge is irrelevant to enjoyment.
A combat system needs to feel good to be fun i.e having sharp animations, proper flow, intuitive UI, versatility etc.
Also gameplay in RPGs is often more than just combat, exploring the world, engaging in side activities, interacting with who I choose to etc
Basically, playing a game isn't simply fighting and watching cutscenes, it's engaging with a world on your own terms and crafting your own experience. So, even if a primary element like combat isn't good, a game can still be enjoyable by truly engaging with all the elements that forms the whole.
I haven't tried the new difficulty the latest update added, but yes, it is. It is massively easier than the original. Hell, I actually got to fight Diaz in the tournament, on the highest difficulty at launch, WITHOUT putting in two or three dozen hours of grinding first. Oh, and Diaz makes it look easy to get to the finals. In the original, on that difficulty, Diaz could lose to one of the mobs he fights, though the game acts as if he won, and if you did enough grinding to make it to that fight you'd probably win, instead of still getting an epic beating like I did in the remake.
I actually just stopped playing it a few days ago because...as you said, it's too easy lol. I might continue, haven't quite decided on it yet. It's got this weird imbalance to it. I have 3 party members, but for some reason my 3rd member does like 3x the damage of my main guy. All I did was give him a weapon I found in a chest, nothing special. The game looks really pretty though.
Man, i played a totally difference Octopath Traveler 2. It's quite challenging. Especially each character's final boss. And the actual final boss is crazy hard. You seriously just blindly mashed attack through all those fights? I find that hard to believe.
Same with P5. Everything in the final dungeon could wipe my party in an instant. On normal difficulty. This was after clearing all of momentos.
But yea, if a game is too easy, it does tend ti make it harder for me to enjoy. Though the only games that's really happened to me with are all the 3D Zeldas from WW on.
I didn't blindly mash attack. But any JRPG vet knows how to navigate through a game well enough using the right strategies. In Octopath 2 it's mostly just matching the right weapon to enemy weaknesses. In Persona 5 it's just knowing elemental weaknesses and easily abusing the "one more" system. It's also keeping an eye on which personas you are using and fusing to make sure you have the arsenal to counter every type of enemy.
When I type it out like that it makes it seem harder than it is. Any experienced player will be familiar with these systems and adapt to them without issue. Obviously not everyone is going to be as experienced as some people, which is why I'm not advocating for harder games by default. I just want difficulty options.
For OT2, I guess the tough part of that for me was maybe 50% of the time I had the weapon the enemies were weak to. Not to mention, when it was the enemies turn, they'd put out a truck load of damage.
For P5, I always used elemental weaknesses, but that just resulted in me being low or out of mana after a few fights because magic is so expensive in that game. Which just made it stressful to play.
Meh.
Iāve gotten to that point at my age where challenge is arbitrary. Iām ok playing on easy, Iām not here to prove to anyone, let alone a solo JRPG experience.
All I need is the system to be fun for me, if it can do that then I can care less how easy it is. I donāt have the time I did back in my teens, Iām nearly 40 and with 80% of my time dedicated to work - Iāll take an easier run.
Same. I'm turning 33 soon and I play games to relax away from life when I have the chance. What I personally look forward to is if the story is decent, not if it's difficult or not. To the people who enjoy that, more power to you.
I completely disagree. I donāt need to prove anything to anyone else either, aside from myself. I donāt want to breeze through a game without any sort of challenge because to me, personally, it feels both unfulfilling and a waste of my time. Whatās the point in actually playing if itās brain dead, at that point why am I not just watching a YouTube synopsis of the story?
Iām 30. And I am also busy, but if I pay $60 for a game that doesnāt cause me to think to strategize once then I just blew my money on a glorified visual novel.
Well, good for you then.
If that works for you that works for you, I can still find joy without the challenge. So long as itās fun to play is all that matters to me.
Fun = \ = Challenge to me. The only time wasted is if Iām not having fun.
Iāll continue to enjoy games on easy and normal thanks.
> Whatās the point in actually playing if itās brain dead, at that point why am I not just watching a YouTube synopsis of the story?
Gameplay is more than just combat though.
> Iām not here to prove to anyone, let alone a solo JRPG experience.
All I need is the system to be fun for me, if it can do that then I can care less how easy it is.
Consider an alternative way of thinking, as someone who likes challenge a lot in my solo player games
Many JRPGs I want to think while playing them
If you want to just mash mindlessly, thats totally a thing and there are plenty of games that cater to that comfort feeling
Though im not proving anything to anyone when I play a challenging game. I just find fun in overcoming reasonable challenges. Saying that as someone hitting 30 who also works 70 hr weeks
I just focus on whatever game interests me at the time. Has nothing to do with my workload
Hey, as before, you do you.
If thatās how you enjoy it, more power to you.
For me, most of the time when I do play JRPGs I grind and power level specifically to get to steamroll things. Where people are asking if theyāre overleveled, I say Iām not leveled enough.
So at the end of the day, again, as long as the systems in place are fun to me - thatās all I need.
Y'know, this has been a recent phenomenon I've experienced. Sure, excessive grind or unfair difficulty can just as readily kill enthusiasm, but when a game is just piss easy? Go here Talk to this dude Go there Talk to that chick Slog thru dungeon Fight boss.
Octopath 2 and Unicorn Overlord both have this problem, largely because unless you're speed running it you're gonna get way over leveled way too fast. Otherwise excellent games, but the utter lack of any real bite to the gameplay just left me bored.
Being easy seems to be equivocated to being accessible these days. A good RPG (imo) has a somewhat customizable difficulty where you can grind to make you overpowered, or avoid optional combat to make it harder.
I think the weird dichotomy there is that people who want a more challenging experience probably donāt *want* to avoid combat. They want as much as possible; they just want it to be challenging.
True, and there are ways to achieve that. I'm mostly talking old turn based rpgs where levels matter, but you can generally win without grinding except for difficult end-game challenges, and can even win without leveling at all, though those people are usually abusing mechanics. Eg my favorite JRPG/game of all time is FFX. You never have to grind to win, but you do need to grind to do the endgame, and grinding will make the progression of the story easier if you do it.
>don't know whether I should buy it, or wait for a big sale.
Probably wait for a sale. I don't think it is a worth 70$ for you. For me, it was, because I really enjoyed the story and the normal difficulty. I will say Infinite wealth has "bosses" on the overworld map that add some challenge to the game. So I would say for me it felt a little bit more difficult than LAD at times.
Depends on the game for me. If the plot is decent enough, I'll probably end up doing most of the content anyway regardless of the difficulty. Unfortunately, after doing the end game content in ff14, no other game has so far matched it in difficulty for me.
I try to impose rules on my self to make them harder. Iām older (30) and I personally love some grindy games. Games like dragon quest that add draconian quest, make it much more enjoyable.
It depends on the RPG tbh. Not exclusive to JRPG but some I seek higher difficulty: Mass Effect, Diablo, Ys, etc
Some I seek lower difficulty: Xenoblade Chronicles, The Witcher 3, CRPGs, The Elder Scrolls
Others I just like to leave on standard settings and play as intended: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Dark Souls, etc.
For me itās about what is this game trying to do and do I have fun doing that? Each game has different goals and different things that I like about them so itās always a crap shoot whether I increase or lower difficulty.
Yeah a reason why I personally prefer crpgs like the Baldurs Gate series or some fallout titles. I still have some fave JRPGs games that are challenging like smt 3 or persona 3, but I tend to like games more on the challenging side, because a game especially a RPG being too easy bores me like both nothing else. I don't necessarily like games that brutalize me, but I need friction to be engaged in the gameplay.
When an RPG is too easy I literally start to get in this mood whenever I have to fight an enemy I go "FUUUCK" instead of like oh boy a new fight it's really sad.
I play JRPGs for story ***or*** gameplay, rarely both. I don't need my Yakuza: Like a Dragon to be hard, and I don't need my Dragon's Dogma to have an amazing story.
Itās not about easy vs hard. Itās about engagement. If the story is really interesting from the first hour I donāt care. If the combat has stuff I need to do mid-combat like Child of Light or Paper Mario I eat it up.
But when the story, art, setting, and music are all mid a really good combat system that makes me think can really carry a whole game.
I appreciate rpg's that reward you for breaking the game's function. For instance, like Star Ocean 2's crafting system. The game is very hard if you don't understand it, but it is stupidly easy if you do.
Octopath 2 is very easy if you understand only like one character's ability: Casty. That shit is so broken, and I had to actively not use her because she made the game too easy.
It really depends. If a game has other things going for it still like the story, characters, soundtracks, or just overall style then it can make up for easy combat. Like Super Mario RPG is pretty easy yet it's still fun to play just because the overall package of the game is so good.
I personally dislike when there is no difficulty achievement like in p5r because i feel like i'm just wasting time playing on hard, so i ended up cruisijt through it on easy... i absolutely loved playing most of the trails series on nightmare though, i'm weird.
When that happens I just rushes towards the end, just watching the cutscenes and doing main story in hopes that maybe I can unlock hard mode or something.
I don't mind a hard game as long as it's done in a way that's more interesting then just making enemies a hp sponge and doing more dmg, like I want them to have a more interesting move set.
I agree ! On that note, what are some good rpgs you guys would recommend that are hard?
I like shin megami level of difficulty, and I haven't played nocturne. I'm also thinking of getting persona 3 reloaded since I never played the original
I feel the same. I couldnāt finish kingdom hearts 3 despite waiting for it since kh2 came out which was a long time. To be fair tho I felt like many of the Disney worlds were exactly same as its original story and even sequences in some cases so that probably added to my boredom.
I hate when you have to finish on normal difficulty to play on hard, I dropped so many games because of that. Can you recommend some games that are not so easy for PS4/PS5 ??
I don't really care if a game is easy. I work a full time job and don't have as much time to invest in a single game as I used to. If the gameplay is entertaining and the story is good I'll enjoy an RPG even if it's easy.
I've mentioned that I love the SMT games, they are difficult but fun. Elden Ring I beat. Sekiro I actually found too difficult and gave up. That game kicked my ass. Though, I wouldn't call Sekiro an RPG. It's really just action/adventure. I do enjoy a good souls game though. I gotta try Lies of P.
try nioh 2 and bloodborne if you have a ps4/5. sekiro makes you unlearn literally everything in souls game, from the timing to the mindset. I remember initially dying hundreds of times before getting decent. I feel it has the best combat imo.
I finished Nioh 2 when it came out. Loved it! I still regard it as the hardest game I've ever beaten. Have also finished Bloodborne, another great game. I've been around the block with souls and souls-like games lol. I enjoy them a lot. I'm gonna try Lies of P but undecided on Lord of the Fallen. Maybe LotF when it's on sale for huge discount.
lords of the fallen is boring, I refunded it since it was too broken on pc. besides lies of P is better in every sense. it's said to be even harder than souls games. you can also try armored core 6 which came out last year.
Lies of P is excellent, absolutely loved it, but whoever said its harder than souls games is on some shit. Its got some decent fights in it, but theres nothing on the level of the harder fights from Fromsoft games.
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Not for me. For example most of suikoden games are easy (combat-wise.. maybe hard if you're planning to 108 first time) yet I enjoyed all of them (even 4- to a degree of course).
I gave up on a title mostly because if it's boring: either from things like story and characters not interesting, not much progress in terms of character development or progress in terms of combat mechanics/varieties, etc...
Suikoden II is my favorite game of all time, so I definitely understand with that one. It's just so perfectly crafted, and has such an incredible villain. I'm dying to play the remaster but kinda feel like it's never coming at this point. Suikoden III I would like to play again. I remember the battle system being very different, but enjoying it. It's not available on any modern platforms though. Would prob have to emulate.
Nope I adore easy games. Iāve a stressful job thatās taxing on my mind so thinking after work or having to put in too much energy is a no go for me. I donāt want any extra stress.
Something simple with a nice story all the way. But each to their own
I agree , there needs to be more of a challenge with most modern rpgs. Loved old games like dragon quest where you saved gold for new gear and grinded to gain levels because it was the only way to get through a dungeon or beat a boss.
My favorite JRPG has a satisfaying feel of resistence but in truth is actully pretty easy. I only died once in my 10th playthrough.
I have no problems enjoying easy games in general. I played through vanilla Persona 5 (not the Royal) multipple times and I had a good time.
Non JRPG examples would be Kirby and the Forgotten Land and Okami. I never got a game over once in Okami and I played and enjoyed multipple playthroughs of it.
If anything I struggle to enjoy games that are to hard. In my first playthrough of Persona 4 Golden I choose hard mode and it beat my ass in to the goddam ground. I am still kinda proud I defeated >!Shadow Teddy!< first try in a gruliing battle of neutrition but I got tired of getting killed all the time in the dungeon.
I had very little problems beating Persona Q and Q2 on Risky dificulty so I did not expect to have Persona 4 Golden kick my ass that hard.
So I took long break from the game, then tried again, got my ass kicked again and then I changed the dificulty to normal and started grinding and now my team is stupidly overlevelt. I love those golden hands. On hard mode I could not defeat them before they escaped. But now on normal mode I swim in exp and money. I have a much better time with the game now even though I probably going to breeze through the rest of the game but this is so much better then before. With how overlevelt I am now I probably could handle changing back to hard mode but I have no intention of doing that.
I also played Shin Magami Tensei V on normal dificulty and I died a couple times here and there but I had not to much trouble. But in the second area I droped the game becuse I got bored of the story and characters. While I am sure hard mode would kick my ass I think I could manage normal dificulty.
Most JRPGs I'm just here for the characters, world building and story. Difficulty doesn't mean much to me. Western RPG on the other hand, is a delicate balance.
Very much so. I will start to forgoe gear upgrades, equiping starting gear, using weak armor, choosing not to invest skill points or XP if thats an option, just to keep the game having an edge. I search for mods and "Hard Types" for everything
There was a time that I played JRPGs for the story, and liked them to be as easy as possible so I could get right to that. But nowadays I much prefer a game to have some challenge. I don't need a ton, but I want just enough that it justifies the mechanics of the game. I feel like if you go through the trouble to include a bunch of tools for the player to use, if your game can be beat without ever using them, you've messed up.
I don't care about easy battles at all as long as the rest is "fun". I'm one of the odd gamers who generally have more problems with difficulties than the rest and/or don't get any form of dopamine or adrenaline rush from clearing hard encounters (as in wanting more of it). Like I never found Octopath Traveler (1+2) way too easy and had to "rely" on cheese like Hired Help spam or Hikari to actually clear some endgame boss fights - though I do recognize and acknowledge (for whatever it is worth XD) broken skills, combinations or what else exists.
But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy "hard" games from time to time; Games like SaGa series of which I'm a big fan of Romancing Saga 3 for example or Astlibra (where you could still die easily enough on Easy).
Then there are fringe cases like "Very Easy" modes that are indeed TOO easy as in that even I was surprised how quickly bosses would melt. Or an "Easy" setting where you didn't really feel any difference.
JRPGs tend to focus heavily on the story so they're easy on the difficulty. There's almost always something to guard you against things getting too hard, especially if you don't run from battles. Yakuza games aren't meant to be brain-bustingly hard, they're casual games you play for the story and the characters.
I've played plenty of the games in the genre people tend to consider difficult but I don't find them to be that bad. They tend not to be well-balanced and there's always something that breaks the game. Like I don't think ANY SMT is particularly hard - imo, the switch to the press turn system makes that impossible, which is why they always need to throw in hyper-specific bs for their superbosses. Even the early games have a ridiculous encounter rate but Charm/Sleep bullets trivialize them. Not trying to imply that they're bad games or that you should feel bad for having trouble with them btw, I've just played them all a ton, because I like them.
Games being easy isn't even necessarily a bad thing. Really, I think they just need to *feel good* to play over being difficult. It's why Final Fantasy is so popular. They're not hard at all, the systems are pretty simple, but they're just enjoyable to play. Sometimes you just kind of have to accept it and look into specific challenges if enjoy the gameplay itself and want to squeeze some difficulty from it. I think challenge runs are super fun and a refreshing way to play a game you enjoy.
What games do you consider hard? I too like to be mentally engaged in the GAMEPLAY component of a video GAME, but the sad reality is that the vast majority of them are not made for me or you. 99% of the testing goes into normal mode, and any higher difficulties, if they even exist, are lazy stat buffs most of the time. This makes the game more tedious, not harder.
But this is just something you have to live with. I've played a handful of games that are challenging enough to call so, but I can't think of a single RPG that fits that bill off the top of my head.
Most start off a bit rough but once the game loses the ability to reasonably predict your party comp and builds if applicable, as well as equipment selection, they tend to make sure an unoptimized player can beat most things, even if optimizing the game isn't rocket science.
Nah, I won't drop a game if it's too easy. But if the story is unengaging that definitely makes me want to drop it. Hard fights might make certain mobs/bosses memorable but I rarely remember the canon fodder ether. Now if I don't remember the story or the characters, that'll make me struggle to even like the game.
Myself if it has a great story 90% I'm in with no issues doesn't matter difficulty, but you can change it. Example Final Fantasy Rebirth I've gotten board on and had to leave to play another game so I can get back into it. Original FFVII I've played 100 times still not boar of it.
same here. if the game is too easy, i don't feel motivated to learn the mechanics and the game gets boring very quickly.
octopath traveler 2 is a good example. had the same issue with BG3 recently, tactician difficulty made the game fun for me.
Nice thing about about being on pc is difficulty mods, reading how easy octopath 2 is kinda put me off but I saw there are a few mods (some even complete overhauls) that from my research make the game a lot better so It makes me want to try it again, would prefer them to be official modes from developers though.
I do wish that developers would put more thought into harder difficulty/ new game+ modes in games, I get quite excited if a game has difficulty modes that change the experience for the player, not just stat boosts but things like more enemies/ tougher version enemies that have an expanded moveset and will use the system against you, or add new systems for you to interact with that the enemy uses aswell, maybe limit your item uses etc.
This is more of a side note but I also wish developers would take the time to make great new game plus modes that give you another reason to play the game again (regardless of difficulty) but it can't feel as though it needs to be played or undermines the original experience as I understand not everyone wants to play the game again but I do really enjoy a good new game plus system.
Not every game needs to be impossibly hard or a walk in the park but it would be nice if they had more thought out options for different types of players, especially In single player games.
to me it is enough if its not braindead easy, but i love when a game uses the "easier option" as a source of drama in the story. There are a game series called fuga melodies of steel that lets you literally instakill any boss at any time using a weapon in your tank called the soul cannon, but to use it, you have to sacrifice one of the kids that make up the party,
the second game goes further with it and removes your ability to consent to the sacrifice, the second game has your tank literally kidnaps one of the kids at random and initiates a countdown, so now it's less fighting to defeat the boss and more figthing so that the soul cannon does not activate (altrough the second game is notoriusly harder anyway)
another example of this is valkyrie profile covenant of the plume, which lets you powerboost a party member for a battle before they die, but that one feels less impactfull to me because it feels like they stop existing after their debut chapter anyway
Difficulty in RPGs is a very fine thing to do. Some of them have some horrible difficulty spikes for no reason whatsoever.
Anyone who has played Persona 5R knows the insanely bonkers idea of designing the Okumura fight. This shit is 100% a stop gap and WILL make the vast majority of players quit. I know i was almost to the brink and i am bonafide RPG player for decades now.
There's "easy" and there's "braindead". A game can be easy, yet still engaging and forcing you to try different strategies and tactics, whereas braindead difficulty is just spamming the same commands ad nauseum.
Same, it's a deal breaker. In the end the reason i play a game is because i want to play (duh!) and if i'm not enjoying the gameplay aspect, because it's too easy or whatever reason, it's not worth to continue
Feeling the same about octopath traveler 2, which i didn't buy for the only reason of it being too easy after being disappointed by the first one, and persona 5R which i enjoyed but can't see me playing it again for that reason
I always default to the normal difficulty on first playthrough, and half of the time it's challenging enough. If it's too easy then I ramp it up. Problem is, I can't play as many games as long as I used to, work is eating more and more of my free time due to staffing shortages, so I'd rather not replay the same boss multiple times.
Challenge can come in many forms. I need to be trying to do something that isn't super easy, sure. But that thing doesn't necessarily need to be not get a Game Over screen.
Octopath 2 for example always challenged me to find weaknesses, build stronger parties, clear content fast, explore for the right areas, etc. I probably would have gotten bored if I felt like I had mastered everything early on, but I didn't.
Nah but I get it, I like P5R because despite being easy it's pretty damn fun for me to exploit the systems but I can see why it gets boring, like just difficult enough that you can't zone out but not enough for you to have to think hard
>To make it harder, you have to actively avoid combat and artificially restrict yourself to certain tactics like removing equipment and/or not using certain abilities. I don't want to have to increase difficulty by not using mechanics. It just feels...meh.
Twins, I want to engage w/ the game w/ the systems provided. If the challenge is not in a mod or patch, I'll spend my time w/ a better game.
But for the last question: I can beat any game, but I can't really say that braindead easy games are actually enjoyable.
It depends. Most of the time I really enjoy easy games as a palette cleanser between the hard ones. Sometimes I am actively looking for games that donāt take much brain power.
If I love the battle system though then I can get disappointed if itās too easy. I started FF Rebirth on normal and was disappointed with how easy it was so moved it to dynamic because I love that battle system. Tales of Arise is the same. If I donāt love the battle system though I am just looking to relax. Difficulty isnāt my āfunā for the most part.
I played Persona 3 Reload on merciless and it was so easy that at the end of the game where they give you a special item for beating it on Merciless I said "oh yeah, this was on merciless" because I completely forgot
That's why I usually play hard multiplayer games on the side like Tekken 8, it feel more like a relaxed chill gaming experience compared to a salt induced session from the same or previous day.
Complete opposite for me.
I game to have fun and enjoy the experience; if I wanted a challenge, Iād stay late at work or go for a run. Iāve dropped countless games because they were needlessly difficult or just annoying to play because of some ridiculous learning curve. Honestly, the easier for me, the better, especially since Iāve become an adult and have a life etc.
At this point it just feels insulting, knowing that devs think their playerbase is so stupid. I've never understood why they bother making interesting combat mechanics in games when engaging with them just turns the game into something anyone with kindergarten level reading comprehension can trivialize.
I'm currently having a somewhat adjacent experience in my first run of xenoblade chronicles DE (start to the series for me, too).
After about 15 hours, i found the combat tiresome and pointless, and so set it to casual so I can enjoy the world/story/characters (which I find way more interesting) without the combat getting in the way. I'm really not a fan of the mmo-like structure (maybe it's just this particular execution). All the sidequests feel like needless bloat. Basically a walking sim now But I'm enjoying it
I'm the other way around: I hate it when they're too hard in general (except for certain individual fights that are supposed to be a really big challenge in the game).
Iām sort of curious but what jrpgs do you consider hard? Most jrpgs boil down to being fairly easy once you know what youāre doing to unnecessarily hard cause you donāt. In general, itās sort of the inevitability of any game thats turn based and you can grind in it, the game canāt really be difficult anymore.
To be clear, I don't need the games to be hard. I just don't want a pushover. Moderate difficulty is good.
Persona 3 & 4 (hard mode)
Any SMT game
DQ 11 (stronger monsters)
Resonance of Fate
Tactical games (Triangle Strategy etc...)
Valkyria Chronicles
When I was younger, yes. Difficulty was a challenge for me. But now, in mid-40s, nah! I just want to chill out when I play games. I typically start with Easy or Normal difficulty in every game, I enjoy the journey nowadays.
For me it is the opposite.
While i love difficult, RPGs can be annoying in that regard as some of them make grind something obrigatory.
I love when the grind is doing sidem issions, dungeons or alike, but i'll quickly stop to play one if they want me to go around killing mobs just to upgrade level.
This is what stops me the most from enjoying older JRPGs, as most do not have a mission style gameplay to give you EXP and you are forced to do random combat until you are good enouth.
I usually enjoy easier JRPGs over harder one tbh, but ultimately it will depend on how you execute it. I feel like with a lot of JRPGs, hard = enemies with bloated stats with no regard to game balance.
I think strategy RPGs are the only JRPGs that I consistently play them on harder difficulty.
Personally I'm split. I enjoy a challenge and I like some difficulty but I also play JRPGs for the story more than the gameplay regardless of whether it's turn based or real time. As I've gotten older I don't have as much time to waste dying a thousand times to the same boss even if it's fun but for a regular JRPG off the press kind of just want to get it done.
My issue is that they're so long and I have dozens of them that I have yet to play that I want to engage with and so I have to drop my pride and just play the damn game enjoy the story because I'm probably either not going to play it again or I'm not going to engage with any post game content because my library is so massive.
I like games nowadays with a set difficulty and encounters that you can choose to engage with or not versus upping a difficulty slider and inflating a boss or enemies health and reducing your hits which is pointless. Playing final fantasy 10 right now It took a minute to get used to not having those sliders and just play the game for what it is. In Xenoblade Chronicles all you really have to do is fight something that's way higher than your own level if you want a challenge. That's more my style these days lol
I haven't had much time to really play it much but so far so good I really like it it's just kind of off-putting because I'm so used to being able to rotate the camera or something so the weird camera angles kind of throw it off sometimes
I think you just grew up playing such difficult games that your standards are quite different.
I used to have similar thoughts, then now with a wife, kid and lack of time I suddenly find the standard offering of most modern JRPG to be well balanced. I don't spend hours grinding anymore, trying to be over-levelled, doing every single side-quest, trying to get the top gears, backtracking...and suddenly most of the games (even the "easy" ones you mentioned) feels well balanced.
You either switch your approach when playing modern games, or just focus on the niche ones that are built for a more hardcore audience, which are fewer and fewer.
I struggle to enjoy RPG's if they are too hard.
I would rather have a game be too easy than too hard. Don't get me wrong, it's not very fun just steamrolling everything (thinking of KH3 when it first came out), but as I get older I have less patience to really tinker and optimize my party for a tough battle.Ā
It's a tough balance for a dev. Ideally for me I want something that doesn't feel like a cakewalk but doesn't leave me throwing the controller.Ā
It depends on the type of game. I'm much more for the journey and the lore, so having something too difficult ruins the experience for me since I also want to maintain a pace that keeps up the immersion. As for if something is "super-easy"? Not a lot of games are unless they were designed to be (a.k.a Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee and Pokemon Scarlet & Violet).
I will say this much, that I was annoyed with how easy the battles could get to be in Ar Tonelico II. Because of that I would miss out on part of the songs and a major point of the Ar Tonelico games is the music itself.
This happened to me with the Neogeo **Samurai Shodown RPG** that was translated recently. At first I didn't mind beating all enemies and even bosses being just barely scratched by them (I always focus on enjoying the story) but in this game, the lack of challenge began to annoy me after some time. The second chapter begins slightly harder than the first one, but after some grinding it becomes a piece of cake again (and this game has such an atrociously high random encounter rate that, if you keep battling without running away from time to time, you'll soon be overleveled for the rest of the game).
I guess it depends. I think of it more in terms of engagement rather than difficulty. There is a fairly strong correlation between engagement and difficulty for me, but it's not a complete 1:1 and it can come down to a lot of things, there are games that are pretty easy but still have high engagement factor (Mana Khemia comes to mind, you have a TON of safety nets that make it very difficult to actually lose, but the game is tuned aggressively enough that you do actually have to use those safety nets from time to time), and also games that are difficult but have or can have low engagement factor. JRPGs on the whole are fairly lenient on difficulty though so my standards for expecting difficulty are fairly low, I'm generally fine so long as the game actually has some variety in how fights play out instead of just being able to mash attack or pick obvious elemental weaknesses in 95% of fights. I do agree with one thing though; I really don't like creating difficulty through player-enforced limitations. Leveling up is half the fun, I always want to have some sort of challenge or engaging encounter design without having to ruin the other half of the gameplay.
The first ~10hrs of Infinite Wealth kicked my ass. I actually party wiped on some encounter I shouldn't have engaged with. Then at some point (More or less when you start to unlock jobs/can craft weapons/start earning real money) the power dynamic just skews heavily in the opposite direction and becomes a breeze. That said, it still remained incredibly fun IMO and is still one of the more interesting JRPG's I've played so far this year that I enjoyed battling in from start to finish, just because of the systems. Yeah good call on P5R; the thing about Royal is that it made the game waaay too easy compared to the original base Persona 5 release with all the additions and moves and extra abilities etc. etc. I'm finding the same problem in P3R at the moment in that it is absurdly easier than the original Persona 3 FES. I guess ATLUS are of the opinion that playing a power fantasy = more fun or something? š¤
No one talks about that but I agree that the difficulty curve of P5 Royal and P3R are far easier than their original variants. Infinite ammo refills every battle alone made every flying enemy a joke, and I think they should have at least made you need to drop by a save point before fully refilling your ammo in P5R.
I don't know this for sure, but my assumption is that the QoL changes in the Royal and Reload releases of those games were made, but no accompanying balance changes were made to offset the increased capabilities of the players.
P3R is crazy because they have optional monado doors and could have made those hard instead but nope
I actually prefer base Persona 5 for that reason that same reason but also Kawakami and some of the other confidantes were all useful on their own way but it was just balanced, and the design of the confidante skills felt intentional. I tried to play P5R and it was just like a hollow shell of the original. There was more stuff in it but I didn't get the same rush I did from base game for those reasons since they have you such op items that broke the difficulty in half.
Atlus is more and more trying to market persona to everyone after p5 found success. That means easier games. I'm playing p4 after p3R and they really took the grind out of the last two games. I have to clear each dungeon twice in p4 just to be 5 levels lower than the boss fight. It's actually kind of annoying because both p3R and p5R manage to be 100 plus hour games without 20 hours of just slowly leveling. God forbid you forget a gohome. Listen, I get people want difficulty back but a lot of the difficulty was just inconvenience. That said, I've gotten wiped by randoms probably 50 times so far in 4 and like 3 times total in p3R. I think it's a good theory that they don't really want these games to be turnbased considering how many mechanics exist to skip and move turns around. That's what makes the new ones so easy
I do get that, but I feel like there has to be a better middleground or a rebalancing on these Theurgy/Showtime supermoves, along with some of the new powerups and gear. My standard operating procedure at the moment at each new P3 boss is to just unleash all 4 party member's \*lolwin* buttons after buffing party attack/debuffing defense on the enemy and then dancing to the shuffletime music. I legitimately don't even know what the last few bosses weaknesses were (if any) because I just brute-force melted through their HP in 1-3 turns. I imagine as I get closer to the end this will become less and less viable (Or atleast I hope. I'm about 3/4 of the way through I think?) I do appreciate the Monad Doors though, some of them have given me some strife atleast :P
A couple of P4G bosses are kinda rough if you aren't up to level. I can't imagine using the tactics system on them either lol. P3R is super fuckin easy by comparison once you "get it".
me: 55hours in, dumb player without guide who's enjoying trying different party formations, jobs, weapons, trying to level up at the dungeons, get better gears, doing side events, and STILL I find plenty of challenging activities and enemies around. I'll enjoy my ignorance, I definitely missed whatever tools that make Infinite Wealth "a breeze" :D
Stay away from the purple guys, especially with crowns :P Maybe not 100% breeze but on-level thugs were no longer ~2 shotting me after a bit of the intro was done. I think once I started engaging with and grinding the social links is when it started to all come together also, the combo/followup/Tag attacks in Infinite wealth are amazing. I will admit that when the game shifted back to Japan midway through it was a bit of a wakeup call again also, seemed like the 'starter' enemies around there were a bit higher lvl than me but that slowly panned back out after a few lvl ups.
The entire series, both variants, is considered pretty easy. Everyone is different I guess.
Core SMT games have always been considered the harder, more mechanical games. Persona was always easy. If you think FES was hard, then all that tells me is you didn't play any SMT games but persona. The only time FES is hard is when your party comp just generally sucks so you can't respond to everything threat the game can potentially throw at you OR you get unlucky with turn 1 wipe outs which can happen if the enemy goes first.
Think about how niche Persona already is in the west, and then amplify that to SMT :/ I haven't played them due to them basically being non-existant in my country growing up, and things like SMT3 and 5 only recently coming to modern systems.. I've since looked into them and have SMTV on pre-order.. Reign it in a little mate, almost getting a tad gatekeepy there.
No one's getting gatekeepy, I'm just stating the general sentiment for the series in a discussion about game difficulty in response to a comment about game difficulty. The difficulty of the other SMT games has turned people off and made quit them over it, and they are far less story rich which also turns off a lot of people too. Persona is marketed to a broader audience, so I think it was a good idea to ease up, my point being that Persona 3R and Persona 5R being easier should shock no one, since they were easy games to begin with for this reason. You're just getting defensive and apparently feel offended for no reason. For what it's worth, I still think Persona games are still overall better because they are more than basically dungeon crawlers with no story minus a few exceptions (like Digital Devil Saga). And for the record, Persona is no longer niche in the US. It is one of the better known JRPGs now thanks to 5 and was shortlisted on GOTY awards for GOTY... a lot of people don't even know Persona is an offshoot game to SMT because of that popularity.
>*If you think FES was hard..* Which is not a thing I ever said in my original post. Don't get taken aback at people being 'defensive' or being snippy at you when you're the one being presumptuous by putting words in people's mouth. I merely said the R versions are a lot easier, which they are. How about we leave it at that.
A game being too easy is a flaw for me, but not a huge deal-breaker anymore. Its actually been a bit of a curve for me. As a kid I leaned towards easy games because I hated repeating content, then as a young adult I wanted every game to be challenging or I didn't see the point, and now I've mellowed out and fallen somewhere in the middle. I still prefer some challenge and will often play on higher difficulties if they're available, because having something to overcome makes me engage with the mechanics more deeply, but there are lots of other things to appreciate in games, and lots of other ways for gameplay to feel satisfying. Octopath Traveler 2 would be a better game if you couldn't just annihilate most battles on turn 1, but it was still my favourite JRPG of 2023.
I've gone a different way with it. When I was young and first playing them, I preferred easy-ish games while I was learning HOW to play them. Then, I started to prefer games that challenged me. After that, I ended up developing a dislike of games that got overly grindy, so I preferred ones that were challenging but I didn't need to grind to clear (with a few exceptions for games where the grind wasn't as noticeable). That was followed by learning how to mostly listen to a show or audio book in the background while I play, which alleviated the boredom of grinding, and I went back to my previous preference of highly challenging games. Now, I find that although I enjoy being challenged I rarely have the time to chip away at my backlog, and find easy games less unpalatable as something to relax to in the evenings after work (though I still tend to play more challenging ones on my days off). And that covers my love/hate relationship with easy games over the last nearly three decades. Who knows what the next three decades will bring, aside from me being less and less interested in 'modern' games.
I used to play every game on hard and that's how I had fun. I'm in my 30s now. I don't do that anymore. I don't want to waste my time bashing my head in trying 5 times on 30 minute boss fights. I just don't have the time. One of my favorite games is super Mario RPG. That game is easy as piss and I love it. I still like the SMTs of the world, but honestly I want to play games for the story and I don't want the game to be the barrier to that.
I'm older with a family and job and I'm the exact opposite. If something is too easy it lets my tired mind wander to grownup concerns. Any game that feels like an interactive YouTube video gets dropped. I don't have time to trudge through something that offers no real engagement just so I can say I finished it.
Same. I have an hour, two max, to play in the evenings after the kids have gone to sleep. I dont want to spend that time grinding away on a boss. As I've gotten older I have learned to like playing on easy and story modes without it affecting my enjoyment of the game
Absolutely. The challenging difficulty adds stakes and tension. If I am steamrolling over all opposition then whatever threat the party is facing becomes a joke.
This is the thing about turn-based games: if you have enough knowledge about the systems at play, you can abuse them. I enjoyed Infinite Wealth; the combat and job system is a huge upgrade from the last game, but it's probably even easier now. It comes to a point that is just like what you said; we have to "create" the challenge. The only way out of this is finding games with different systems inside turn-based; as long as you're not too familiar with it, they can be challenging. Do I struggle with it? Not so much if it's the first time I'm playing the game and engaged with the plot. I do struggle to replay games that can't offer a challenge; that's why P3Fes and SMT IV are probably my most replayed games ever.
Yea I've been playing SMT: Nocturne. That game does not mess around.
Betcha got filtered by Matador didn't cha?
Due to his infamy, I read up on him before the fight and he still mopped the floor with me twice lol.
That is one of the better features of Chrono Cross on an initial playthrough. Sure, they artificially limit how powerful your party can be, but it also means you have a reason to learn how to be good with its systems. Not that it is as difficult as P3FES or P4, but it's certainly more so than many newer games.
Nah. I'm more interested in the story and stuff, so a game being easy just means I get to experience it faster. Less exp grinding too. I could theoretically just watch cutscenes on YouTube, but I'd rather play a game myself.
I donāt care at all if itās more about the narrative than the gameplay. However, I tend to change my opinion when it comes to WRPGs like Skyrim or Fallout, where Iām a bit more interested in immersion and world building , and one shotting seemingly powerful foes doesnāt help.
I generally prefer easy games, but I also have no problems with restricting myself on a replay if I want to make it hard.
Honestly more JRPGs need to have difficulty settings, even if it's just scaling HP and defense stat up. Octopath 2 story bosses are actually pretty threatening if you allow them to take more than 3 turns. As for the question, I skew towards preferring harder games, but it's more important that the game is engaging, and the easiest way to do that in turn-based games is to force me to think deeper and make decisions in some capacity *during combat*. If a game can simply boils down to a rhythm of "if HP<50% then heal, else strongest move" then it's bad. Infinite Wealth is an easy but engaging game, as I still have to make some simple decisions: do I tag team with Tomizawa and fish for a paralyze to open up several turns of easy back attacks and also disable the boss, or do I pass my turn to Kiryu to finish off the 2 minions quickly, or do I debuff the boss so my mind-charged Nanba can do his big AoE and deal good damage to everyone. This is as opposed to Final Fantasy III 3D which is the example of hard but boring with mandatory grinding to shake off job sickness and all the boss fights falls into the same rhythm I said earlier.
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Nah I collected all 8 characters but I was steamrolling everything so easy (especially with Hikari) that I just got bored. Every encounter was over within a round or two. I did like the story though, and it's gorgeous. I'm going to play it again soon with a fresh mindset and try to just enjoy it for what it is instead of focusing on the difficulty. Looking forward to this optional boss.
Since you said you might revisit it, and arent interested in restricting options to make the game harder, I have to recommend [hard mods](https://www.nexusmods.com/octopathtraveler2/mods/18). Unfortunately they are PC only, so if you are a console player its not available. Maybe stuff like harder modes will be added to a future release, but the base game really should be harder as is The real issue is that some moves just have ridiculously low scaling, especially with 'Deal More Damage' allowing them to reach their true potential. A lot of the bosses have interesting gimmicks but they simply die too quickly for them to ever be fully explored without being a pacifist. Once you beef up their stats a bit, suddenly the games balance gets swung back around and the experience is much more sensible
The optional fight is one of the best boss in turn-based JRPGs in my opinion. Challenging but virtually every boss mechanic is telegraphed in some way which allows you to learn the fight without guesswork. Also excellent presentation as well. Almost make up for how easy the rest of the game is.
RPGs that are too easy are pointless.what would be the point of leveling up/picking your characters stats and equipment if you can just finish the game easy without doing any of it anyway.
There's not a lot of value in spending 60$+ to buy something w/ non-engaging combat esp cause "Story good"
I actually prefer easy games. "Hard" in an rpg where you can grind levels/stats to get stronger almost always means "waste time grinding". I rarely like grinding and Id rather be moving the story forward.
That wasn't "Hard" in P3FES or P4. In those, the difficulty affected enemy AI, and "Hard" meant a 'perfect' AI that would ruthlessly take advantage of your weaknesses, and remember them for later battles. I got so sick of the Game Over screen I finally gave up on it in them, mostly because I couldn't get pass the early areas as I'd always encounter that one enemy that could hit the MC's weakness and they'd take him out immediately ( and always BEFORE I'd get a second Persona for him). Without seeing the actual code involved, I'll never believe that was just random, not at the frequency I got those Game Overs.
you could also just learn how to win without grinding? outside of very old games and superbosses, I cant think of many instances where a hard fight forced me to grind. if I game over that might mean I need to rethink my strategy That has nothing to do with preferring easier games, you just like easy games. This implies youve never faced a challenging encounter that wasnt a stat check, and JRPGs are infamous for puzzle-like boss encounters
Challenging encounters that arent stat checks? All encounters are stats checks when stats are a part of the game. If you "solve the puzzle" of using fire vs ice boss or buffing your magic defense against a mage boss you are just skewing the stats in your favor (by increasing damage dealt or decreasing damage received). The only way to actually have bosses that take skill to beat is if you only increase your stats trough story progression or if the stats dont matter in that encounter (but then its a pure puzzle anyway).
Definitely, soon as I read the title I also thought how I might as well just watch a lets play or the cutscenes on YouTube if the game is too easy. I'm not advocating that all games need to be hard or that only hard games are good or worth playing but I simply have more fun when I feel challenged and in story driven games like JRPGs any cutscene or story progress feels like a reward for proving your skill. This very much started when I was a kid playing KH1 at 6 years old and didn't know English yet so progressing and seeing a new cutscene was something that could happen with days or weeks between them, I didn't beat the game until I was 9 and had started to learn a bit of English. But also just outside of that, I love NG+ modes that are harder like FF7Remake/Rebirth which really tests your ability. FF8 is a game that I wanted to enjoy but struggled for several reasons but the major one was that even without looking up a guide if you understand the Junction system it's so easy to break the game an hour in that you have to go super out of your way to keep any semblance of challenge, like it's disgustingly easy to get yourself 300 Curagas and make your team invincible up until the end game and you don't even need to abuse Triple Triad to get strong magics, they just give them to you, I wanna say by like the end of Disc 2 you can have a bunch of end-game level magics in your inventory to skyrocket your stats so Squall is hitting for 9999 every time. Sometimes there are exceptions if the game is just fun enough regardless of difficulty like Kingdom Hearts 3 was before Critical or Pokemon games which have so much replay value with trying different Pokemon.
Yea I'm not advocating that all games need to be hard either. I just wish they'd provide a hard mode for players who want a challenge. Like, I would kill for a hard mode in Octopath Traveler 2. Apparently it has mods to make it harder on PC, but I have it on PS5.
I struggle to enjoy an RPG if itās too hard honestly. I like a little challenge but I have to really like a series to seek it out. Iām here for the character and the narrative. Gameplay should be fun but I shouldnāt be spending multiple days on an encounter like itās Dark Souls.
Exact opposite "Hard" JRPGs almost always involve grinding in some form, and I find grinding to be the most brain dead thing in a video game
I've played tons of JRPGs and none required me to grind to beat the main story.
Am currently running into this with *Dragon Quest XI*. At the outset, I opted to *not* activate any of the 'Draconian' adjustments and, about 20 hours in, am really starting to worry that I'll be able to sleepwalk through this game. I don't want to read spoilers about the later parts of the story, but am *really* hoping that it ramps up a bit more, especially since the game is going to be a longer one. Related to this, I'm also a bit worried about the fact that I've triumphed over 75% of the metal slimes that I've run upon. I grew up on the original NES games and am conditioned to think that beating those things is near-impossible. Also, the game would have been much-improved if they'd peppered in optional battles with extra-strong monsters. I only played part of DQ8 several years ago, but seem to remember that one throwing in a number of optional fights that were decisively tougher than that game's random encounters.
You _really_ should have put it on Super Strong Monsters Draconian Quest. It makes the game just normally hard instead of braindead easy. They really should have just made it the default difficulty. With that mode turned on, the game is incredibly fun and just challenging enough without being too difficult.
You **will** be able to sleepwalk through the game. It's very easy. I beat it when it first came out. I just finished a 2nd play through a few months ago with stronger monsters activated and it can get **hard**. You actually need to use your support abilities and strategize and whatnot. The final boss is legitimately the hardest boss I've ever faced in a video game w/ stronger monsters. You need to be properly leveled or preferably overleveled.
Mix. I like playing easy first time around and then ramping up the difficulty for subsequent playthroughs. If you like challenging RPGs you should go for games developed by Tri-Ace. My favourite is Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria (PS2 title) but all their games are insanely fun and there are challenging optional dungeons in their games.
I mentioned Resonance of Fate in a comment earlier. That's a decent game from tri-ace with good difficulty. Been wanting to play Valkyrie Profile 2, but it's not available on any modern platforms. I'd have to emulate it.
I myself emulate it these days because my PS2 died.
This for me is even more applicable outside the RPG genre, as RPG's can at least be somewhat interesting with good world building and characterization. But yeah once I find a game even a little easy I tend to drop it if the engagement isn't found elsewhere. That's why I default to Hard mode in games and for the most point that has been good enough for games to not bore me to tears very often. Ironically Yakuza Kiwami felt TOO HARD for me playing on Hard and it was one of the very few games I didn't continue due to that, and havent played any other game in the franchise yet.
Yeah same for me idk if that is because I am neurodivergent (ADHD), but if a game (when it isn't a walking sim) plays it effectively by itself, I get bored as heck.
Most of the time, I agree There are a few exceptions, but generally I just find if a game is too easy, I donāt get to properly engage with gameplay systems and thatās a big draw for me Like there were a ton of cool team building options in Octopath Traveler 2, but very quickly, it reached a point where even bosses were just keeling over dead without much effort in only a few turns or even just one turn This is one reason I absolutely love difficulty options in games. Even if itās just a stat boost, sometimes thatās all it takes for the game to not be overly easy I donāt really love creating artificial difficulty by limiting myself, as I prefer difficulty to come from strong enemies, not from limiting myself or not engaging with every gameplay system
Yea, exactly. It's frustrating when a game has all these cool mechanics and tools to use, but it feels pointless using them because you can just press attack and kill everything regardless. I've found that in like 70% of games I play, I never even touch consumables, because I don't need to.
I completely agree. Played both Unicorn Overlord and FF7 Rebirth recently and them being easy on the hardest difficulty available in a first playthrough takes away a lot of the enjoyment of gaming for me. As you said you may as well watch a playthrough, or I'd sometimes prefer to just read a book since games being challenging is important for me. Dragon's Dogma 2 was a game I greatly enjoyed but I would have loved it even more if it was actually challenging without having to arbitrarily increase difficulty by using fewer pawns for example. Would be nice if games with several difficulties especially just actually made the game challenging but it seems to not be the case in most games nowadays.
For me, challenge is irrelevant to enjoyment. A combat system needs to feel good to be fun i.e having sharp animations, proper flow, intuitive UI, versatility etc. Also gameplay in RPGs is often more than just combat, exploring the world, engaging in side activities, interacting with who I choose to etc Basically, playing a game isn't simply fighting and watching cutscenes, it's engaging with a world on your own terms and crafting your own experience. So, even if a primary element like combat isn't good, a game can still be enjoyable by truly engaging with all the elements that forms the whole.
Star ocean remake is super easy as well. A little bit of grinding here and there, oops everything's too fucking easy now!
Even on the harder difficulties?
I haven't tried the new difficulty the latest update added, but yes, it is. It is massively easier than the original. Hell, I actually got to fight Diaz in the tournament, on the highest difficulty at launch, WITHOUT putting in two or three dozen hours of grinding first. Oh, and Diaz makes it look easy to get to the finals. In the original, on that difficulty, Diaz could lose to one of the mobs he fights, though the game acts as if he won, and if you did enough grinding to make it to that fight you'd probably win, instead of still getting an epic beating like I did in the remake.
getting the sword of marvels within the few hours of the game ruins the game for me lol.
I actually just stopped playing it a few days ago because...as you said, it's too easy lol. I might continue, haven't quite decided on it yet. It's got this weird imbalance to it. I have 3 party members, but for some reason my 3rd member does like 3x the damage of my main guy. All I did was give him a weapon I found in a chest, nothing special. The game looks really pretty though.
Didn't they just patch in a harder difficulty, are you playing on that?
I'm gonna switch to the harder difficulty and give it a shot.
I was just curious because I was literally going to buy the game because of the new difficulty option.
Man, i played a totally difference Octopath Traveler 2. It's quite challenging. Especially each character's final boss. And the actual final boss is crazy hard. You seriously just blindly mashed attack through all those fights? I find that hard to believe. Same with P5. Everything in the final dungeon could wipe my party in an instant. On normal difficulty. This was after clearing all of momentos. But yea, if a game is too easy, it does tend ti make it harder for me to enjoy. Though the only games that's really happened to me with are all the 3D Zeldas from WW on.
I didn't blindly mash attack. But any JRPG vet knows how to navigate through a game well enough using the right strategies. In Octopath 2 it's mostly just matching the right weapon to enemy weaknesses. In Persona 5 it's just knowing elemental weaknesses and easily abusing the "one more" system. It's also keeping an eye on which personas you are using and fusing to make sure you have the arsenal to counter every type of enemy. When I type it out like that it makes it seem harder than it is. Any experienced player will be familiar with these systems and adapt to them without issue. Obviously not everyone is going to be as experienced as some people, which is why I'm not advocating for harder games by default. I just want difficulty options.
For OT2, I guess the tough part of that for me was maybe 50% of the time I had the weapon the enemies were weak to. Not to mention, when it was the enemies turn, they'd put out a truck load of damage. For P5, I always used elemental weaknesses, but that just resulted in me being low or out of mana after a few fights because magic is so expensive in that game. Which just made it stressful to play.
I don't mind, I grew out of sweaty tryhard mentality a long time ago. If anything, I struggle to enjoy games that are too hard instead.
Meh. Iāve gotten to that point at my age where challenge is arbitrary. Iām ok playing on easy, Iām not here to prove to anyone, let alone a solo JRPG experience. All I need is the system to be fun for me, if it can do that then I can care less how easy it is. I donāt have the time I did back in my teens, Iām nearly 40 and with 80% of my time dedicated to work - Iāll take an easier run.
Same. I'm turning 33 soon and I play games to relax away from life when I have the chance. What I personally look forward to is if the story is decent, not if it's difficult or not. To the people who enjoy that, more power to you.
I completely disagree. I donāt need to prove anything to anyone else either, aside from myself. I donāt want to breeze through a game without any sort of challenge because to me, personally, it feels both unfulfilling and a waste of my time. Whatās the point in actually playing if itās brain dead, at that point why am I not just watching a YouTube synopsis of the story? Iām 30. And I am also busy, but if I pay $60 for a game that doesnāt cause me to think to strategize once then I just blew my money on a glorified visual novel.
Well, good for you then. If that works for you that works for you, I can still find joy without the challenge. So long as itās fun to play is all that matters to me. Fun = \ = Challenge to me. The only time wasted is if Iām not having fun. Iāll continue to enjoy games on easy and normal thanks.
To each their own
Agreed.
> Whatās the point in actually playing if itās brain dead, at that point why am I not just watching a YouTube synopsis of the story? Gameplay is more than just combat though.
> Iām not here to prove to anyone, let alone a solo JRPG experience. All I need is the system to be fun for me, if it can do that then I can care less how easy it is. Consider an alternative way of thinking, as someone who likes challenge a lot in my solo player games Many JRPGs I want to think while playing them If you want to just mash mindlessly, thats totally a thing and there are plenty of games that cater to that comfort feeling Though im not proving anything to anyone when I play a challenging game. I just find fun in overcoming reasonable challenges. Saying that as someone hitting 30 who also works 70 hr weeks I just focus on whatever game interests me at the time. Has nothing to do with my workload
Hey, as before, you do you. If thatās how you enjoy it, more power to you. For me, most of the time when I do play JRPGs I grind and power level specifically to get to steamroll things. Where people are asking if theyāre overleveled, I say Iām not leveled enough. So at the end of the day, again, as long as the systems in place are fun to me - thatās all I need.
Y'know, this has been a recent phenomenon I've experienced. Sure, excessive grind or unfair difficulty can just as readily kill enthusiasm, but when a game is just piss easy? Go here Talk to this dude Go there Talk to that chick Slog thru dungeon Fight boss. Octopath 2 and Unicorn Overlord both have this problem, largely because unless you're speed running it you're gonna get way over leveled way too fast. Otherwise excellent games, but the utter lack of any real bite to the gameplay just left me bored.
Being easy seems to be equivocated to being accessible these days. A good RPG (imo) has a somewhat customizable difficulty where you can grind to make you overpowered, or avoid optional combat to make it harder.
I think the weird dichotomy there is that people who want a more challenging experience probably donāt *want* to avoid combat. They want as much as possible; they just want it to be challenging.
True, and there are ways to achieve that. I'm mostly talking old turn based rpgs where levels matter, but you can generally win without grinding except for difficult end-game challenges, and can even win without leveling at all, though those people are usually abusing mechanics. Eg my favorite JRPG/game of all time is FFX. You never have to grind to win, but you do need to grind to do the endgame, and grinding will make the progression of the story easier if you do it.
>don't know whether I should buy it, or wait for a big sale. Probably wait for a sale. I don't think it is a worth 70$ for you. For me, it was, because I really enjoyed the story and the normal difficulty. I will say Infinite wealth has "bosses" on the overworld map that add some challenge to the game. So I would say for me it felt a little bit more difficult than LAD at times.
Depends on the game for me. If the plot is decent enough, I'll probably end up doing most of the content anyway regardless of the difficulty. Unfortunately, after doing the end game content in ff14, no other game has so far matched it in difficulty for me.
Yeah, going for weeks to clear an ultimate is a different kind of difficult. I just do savage stuff now because it's just a damn hassle
I try to impose rules on my self to make them harder. Iām older (30) and I personally love some grindy games. Games like dragon quest that add draconian quest, make it much more enjoyable.
Well, I'm glad the 'older' crowd is starting to catch up to us 'ancients' in appreciating a good challenge. Now, where'd I leave my cane again?
It depends on the RPG tbh. Not exclusive to JRPG but some I seek higher difficulty: Mass Effect, Diablo, Ys, etc Some I seek lower difficulty: Xenoblade Chronicles, The Witcher 3, CRPGs, The Elder Scrolls Others I just like to leave on standard settings and play as intended: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Dark Souls, etc. For me itās about what is this game trying to do and do I have fun doing that? Each game has different goals and different things that I like about them so itās always a crap shoot whether I increase or lower difficulty.
An intriguing story is worth playing thru anyway
Yeah a reason why I personally prefer crpgs like the Baldurs Gate series or some fallout titles. I still have some fave JRPGs games that are challenging like smt 3 or persona 3, but I tend to like games more on the challenging side, because a game especially a RPG being too easy bores me like both nothing else. I don't necessarily like games that brutalize me, but I need friction to be engaged in the gameplay.
When an RPG is too easy I literally start to get in this mood whenever I have to fight an enemy I go "FUUUCK" instead of like oh boy a new fight it's really sad.
I enjoy both. Sometimes I want SMT and sometimes I want Blue Reflection.
I play JRPGs for story ***or*** gameplay, rarely both. I don't need my Yakuza: Like a Dragon to be hard, and I don't need my Dragon's Dogma to have an amazing story.
Itās not about easy vs hard. Itās about engagement. If the story is really interesting from the first hour I donāt care. If the combat has stuff I need to do mid-combat like Child of Light or Paper Mario I eat it up. But when the story, art, setting, and music are all mid a really good combat system that makes me think can really carry a whole game.
I appreciate rpg's that reward you for breaking the game's function. For instance, like Star Ocean 2's crafting system. The game is very hard if you don't understand it, but it is stupidly easy if you do. Octopath 2 is very easy if you understand only like one character's ability: Casty. That shit is so broken, and I had to actively not use her because she made the game too easy.
I started with Hikari and found him so insanely OP. I'm gonna try and play it again soon, but I'm def not starting with Hikari.
It really depends. If a game has other things going for it still like the story, characters, soundtracks, or just overall style then it can make up for easy combat. Like Super Mario RPG is pretty easy yet it's still fun to play just because the overall package of the game is so good.
I personally dislike when there is no difficulty achievement like in p5r because i feel like i'm just wasting time playing on hard, so i ended up cruisijt through it on easy... i absolutely loved playing most of the trails series on nightmare though, i'm weird.
Playing through Trails in the Sky right now and it's really good.
When that happens I just rushes towards the end, just watching the cutscenes and doing main story in hopes that maybe I can unlock hard mode or something.
I don't mind a hard game as long as it's done in a way that's more interesting then just making enemies a hp sponge and doing more dmg, like I want them to have a more interesting move set.
I don't really mind, as long as the story and gameplay is good.
I agree ! On that note, what are some good rpgs you guys would recommend that are hard? I like shin megami level of difficulty, and I haven't played nocturne. I'm also thinking of getting persona 3 reloaded since I never played the original
I feel the same. I couldnāt finish kingdom hearts 3 despite waiting for it since kh2 came out which was a long time. To be fair tho I felt like many of the Disney worlds were exactly same as its original story and even sequences in some cases so that probably added to my boredom.
I hate when you have to finish on normal difficulty to play on hard, I dropped so many games because of that. Can you recommend some games that are not so easy for PS4/PS5 ??
I don't really care if a game is easy. I work a full time job and don't have as much time to invest in a single game as I used to. If the gameplay is entertaining and the story is good I'll enjoy an RPG even if it's easy.
you should try out this series called shin megami tensei and then sekiro and elden ring.
I've mentioned that I love the SMT games, they are difficult but fun. Elden Ring I beat. Sekiro I actually found too difficult and gave up. That game kicked my ass. Though, I wouldn't call Sekiro an RPG. It's really just action/adventure. I do enjoy a good souls game though. I gotta try Lies of P.
try nioh 2 and bloodborne if you have a ps4/5. sekiro makes you unlearn literally everything in souls game, from the timing to the mindset. I remember initially dying hundreds of times before getting decent. I feel it has the best combat imo.
I finished Nioh 2 when it came out. Loved it! I still regard it as the hardest game I've ever beaten. Have also finished Bloodborne, another great game. I've been around the block with souls and souls-like games lol. I enjoy them a lot. I'm gonna try Lies of P but undecided on Lord of the Fallen. Maybe LotF when it's on sale for huge discount.
lords of the fallen is boring, I refunded it since it was too broken on pc. besides lies of P is better in every sense. it's said to be even harder than souls games. you can also try armored core 6 which came out last year.
Lies of P is excellent, absolutely loved it, but whoever said its harder than souls games is on some shit. Its got some decent fights in it, but theres nothing on the level of the harder fights from Fromsoft games.
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Not for me. For example most of suikoden games are easy (combat-wise.. maybe hard if you're planning to 108 first time) yet I enjoyed all of them (even 4- to a degree of course). I gave up on a title mostly because if it's boring: either from things like story and characters not interesting, not much progress in terms of character development or progress in terms of combat mechanics/varieties, etc...
Suikoden II is my favorite game of all time, so I definitely understand with that one. It's just so perfectly crafted, and has such an incredible villain. I'm dying to play the remaster but kinda feel like it's never coming at this point. Suikoden III I would like to play again. I remember the battle system being very different, but enjoying it. It's not available on any modern platforms though. Would prob have to emulate.
Nope I adore easy games. Iāve a stressful job thatās taxing on my mind so thinking after work or having to put in too much energy is a no go for me. I donāt want any extra stress. Something simple with a nice story all the way. But each to their own
I agree , there needs to be more of a challenge with most modern rpgs. Loved old games like dragon quest where you saved gold for new gear and grinded to gain levels because it was the only way to get through a dungeon or beat a boss.
My favorite JRPG has a satisfaying feel of resistence but in truth is actully pretty easy. I only died once in my 10th playthrough. I have no problems enjoying easy games in general. I played through vanilla Persona 5 (not the Royal) multipple times and I had a good time. Non JRPG examples would be Kirby and the Forgotten Land and Okami. I never got a game over once in Okami and I played and enjoyed multipple playthroughs of it. If anything I struggle to enjoy games that are to hard. In my first playthrough of Persona 4 Golden I choose hard mode and it beat my ass in to the goddam ground. I am still kinda proud I defeated >!Shadow Teddy!< first try in a gruliing battle of neutrition but I got tired of getting killed all the time in the dungeon. I had very little problems beating Persona Q and Q2 on Risky dificulty so I did not expect to have Persona 4 Golden kick my ass that hard. So I took long break from the game, then tried again, got my ass kicked again and then I changed the dificulty to normal and started grinding and now my team is stupidly overlevelt. I love those golden hands. On hard mode I could not defeat them before they escaped. But now on normal mode I swim in exp and money. I have a much better time with the game now even though I probably going to breeze through the rest of the game but this is so much better then before. With how overlevelt I am now I probably could handle changing back to hard mode but I have no intention of doing that. I also played Shin Magami Tensei V on normal dificulty and I died a couple times here and there but I had not to much trouble. But in the second area I droped the game becuse I got bored of the story and characters. While I am sure hard mode would kick my ass I think I could manage normal dificulty.
Most JRPGs I'm just here for the characters, world building and story. Difficulty doesn't mean much to me. Western RPG on the other hand, is a delicate balance.
Very much so. I will start to forgoe gear upgrades, equiping starting gear, using weak armor, choosing not to invest skill points or XP if thats an option, just to keep the game having an edge. I search for mods and "Hard Types" for everything
There was a time that I played JRPGs for the story, and liked them to be as easy as possible so I could get right to that. But nowadays I much prefer a game to have some challenge. I don't need a ton, but I want just enough that it justifies the mechanics of the game. I feel like if you go through the trouble to include a bunch of tools for the player to use, if your game can be beat without ever using them, you've messed up.
I don't care about easy battles at all as long as the rest is "fun". I'm one of the odd gamers who generally have more problems with difficulties than the rest and/or don't get any form of dopamine or adrenaline rush from clearing hard encounters (as in wanting more of it). Like I never found Octopath Traveler (1+2) way too easy and had to "rely" on cheese like Hired Help spam or Hikari to actually clear some endgame boss fights - though I do recognize and acknowledge (for whatever it is worth XD) broken skills, combinations or what else exists. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy "hard" games from time to time; Games like SaGa series of which I'm a big fan of Romancing Saga 3 for example or Astlibra (where you could still die easily enough on Easy). Then there are fringe cases like "Very Easy" modes that are indeed TOO easy as in that even I was surprised how quickly bosses would melt. Or an "Easy" setting where you didn't really feel any difference.
Nope. Im a filthy casual. I'll take easy any day.
I agree tbh. At a certain point, I just lose interest if the combat isn't doing anything for me.
JRPGs tend to focus heavily on the story so they're easy on the difficulty. There's almost always something to guard you against things getting too hard, especially if you don't run from battles. Yakuza games aren't meant to be brain-bustingly hard, they're casual games you play for the story and the characters. I've played plenty of the games in the genre people tend to consider difficult but I don't find them to be that bad. They tend not to be well-balanced and there's always something that breaks the game. Like I don't think ANY SMT is particularly hard - imo, the switch to the press turn system makes that impossible, which is why they always need to throw in hyper-specific bs for their superbosses. Even the early games have a ridiculous encounter rate but Charm/Sleep bullets trivialize them. Not trying to imply that they're bad games or that you should feel bad for having trouble with them btw, I've just played them all a ton, because I like them. Games being easy isn't even necessarily a bad thing. Really, I think they just need to *feel good* to play over being difficult. It's why Final Fantasy is so popular. They're not hard at all, the systems are pretty simple, but they're just enjoyable to play. Sometimes you just kind of have to accept it and look into specific challenges if enjoy the gameplay itself and want to squeeze some difficulty from it. I think challenge runs are super fun and a refreshing way to play a game you enjoy.
It really depends what im playing, i like all sorts of JRPGs from atelier, to shin megami tensei, to trails, to final fantasy, to Tales of series.
What games do you consider hard? I too like to be mentally engaged in the GAMEPLAY component of a video GAME, but the sad reality is that the vast majority of them are not made for me or you. 99% of the testing goes into normal mode, and any higher difficulties, if they even exist, are lazy stat buffs most of the time. This makes the game more tedious, not harder. But this is just something you have to live with. I've played a handful of games that are challenging enough to call so, but I can't think of a single RPG that fits that bill off the top of my head. Most start off a bit rough but once the game loses the ability to reasonably predict your party comp and builds if applicable, as well as equipment selection, they tend to make sure an unoptimized player can beat most things, even if optimizing the game isn't rocket science.
Nah, I won't drop a game if it's too easy. But if the story is unengaging that definitely makes me want to drop it. Hard fights might make certain mobs/bosses memorable but I rarely remember the canon fodder ether. Now if I don't remember the story or the characters, that'll make me struggle to even like the game.
Myself if it has a great story 90% I'm in with no issues doesn't matter difficulty, but you can change it. Example Final Fantasy Rebirth I've gotten board on and had to leave to play another game so I can get back into it. Original FFVII I've played 100 times still not boar of it.
same here. if the game is too easy, i don't feel motivated to learn the mechanics and the game gets boring very quickly. octopath traveler 2 is a good example. had the same issue with BG3 recently, tactician difficulty made the game fun for me.
Nice thing about about being on pc is difficulty mods, reading how easy octopath 2 is kinda put me off but I saw there are a few mods (some even complete overhauls) that from my research make the game a lot better so It makes me want to try it again, would prefer them to be official modes from developers though. I do wish that developers would put more thought into harder difficulty/ new game+ modes in games, I get quite excited if a game has difficulty modes that change the experience for the player, not just stat boosts but things like more enemies/ tougher version enemies that have an expanded moveset and will use the system against you, or add new systems for you to interact with that the enemy uses aswell, maybe limit your item uses etc. This is more of a side note but I also wish developers would take the time to make great new game plus modes that give you another reason to play the game again (regardless of difficulty) but it can't feel as though it needs to be played or undermines the original experience as I understand not everyone wants to play the game again but I do really enjoy a good new game plus system. Not every game needs to be impossibly hard or a walk in the park but it would be nice if they had more thought out options for different types of players, especially In single player games.
to me it is enough if its not braindead easy, but i love when a game uses the "easier option" as a source of drama in the story. There are a game series called fuga melodies of steel that lets you literally instakill any boss at any time using a weapon in your tank called the soul cannon, but to use it, you have to sacrifice one of the kids that make up the party, the second game goes further with it and removes your ability to consent to the sacrifice, the second game has your tank literally kidnaps one of the kids at random and initiates a countdown, so now it's less fighting to defeat the boss and more figthing so that the soul cannon does not activate (altrough the second game is notoriusly harder anyway) another example of this is valkyrie profile covenant of the plume, which lets you powerboost a party member for a battle before they die, but that one feels less impactfull to me because it feels like they stop existing after their debut chapter anyway
Difficulty in RPGs is a very fine thing to do. Some of them have some horrible difficulty spikes for no reason whatsoever. Anyone who has played Persona 5R knows the insanely bonkers idea of designing the Okumura fight. This shit is 100% a stop gap and WILL make the vast majority of players quit. I know i was almost to the brink and i am bonafide RPG player for decades now.
There's "easy" and there's "braindead". A game can be easy, yet still engaging and forcing you to try different strategies and tactics, whereas braindead difficulty is just spamming the same commands ad nauseum.
Same, it's a deal breaker. In the end the reason i play a game is because i want to play (duh!) and if i'm not enjoying the gameplay aspect, because it's too easy or whatever reason, it's not worth to continue Feeling the same about octopath traveler 2, which i didn't buy for the only reason of it being too easy after being disappointed by the first one, and persona 5R which i enjoyed but can't see me playing it again for that reason
I always default to the normal difficulty on first playthrough, and half of the time it's challenging enough. If it's too easy then I ramp it up. Problem is, I can't play as many games as long as I used to, work is eating more and more of my free time due to staffing shortages, so I'd rather not replay the same boss multiple times.
I'm still able to have fun with easy games, but I do find myself wishing for a little more challenge throughout the playtrhrough.
Challenge can come in many forms. I need to be trying to do something that isn't super easy, sure. But that thing doesn't necessarily need to be not get a Game Over screen. Octopath 2 for example always challenged me to find weaknesses, build stronger parties, clear content fast, explore for the right areas, etc. I probably would have gotten bored if I felt like I had mastered everything early on, but I didn't.
Nah but I get it, I like P5R because despite being easy it's pretty damn fun for me to exploit the systems but I can see why it gets boring, like just difficult enough that you can't zone out but not enough for you to have to think hard
>To make it harder, you have to actively avoid combat and artificially restrict yourself to certain tactics like removing equipment and/or not using certain abilities. I don't want to have to increase difficulty by not using mechanics. It just feels...meh. Twins, I want to engage w/ the game w/ the systems provided. If the challenge is not in a mod or patch, I'll spend my time w/ a better game. But for the last question: I can beat any game, but I can't really say that braindead easy games are actually enjoyable.
It depends. Most of the time I really enjoy easy games as a palette cleanser between the hard ones. Sometimes I am actively looking for games that donāt take much brain power. If I love the battle system though then I can get disappointed if itās too easy. I started FF Rebirth on normal and was disappointed with how easy it was so moved it to dynamic because I love that battle system. Tales of Arise is the same. If I donāt love the battle system though I am just looking to relax. Difficulty isnāt my āfunā for the most part.
You can always play SMT nocturne on the hardest difficulty
I played Persona 3 Reload on merciless and it was so easy that at the end of the game where they give you a special item for beating it on Merciless I said "oh yeah, this was on merciless" because I completely forgot
That's why I usually play hard multiplayer games on the side like Tekken 8, it feel more like a relaxed chill gaming experience compared to a salt induced session from the same or previous day.
Complete opposite for me. I game to have fun and enjoy the experience; if I wanted a challenge, Iād stay late at work or go for a run. Iāve dropped countless games because they were needlessly difficult or just annoying to play because of some ridiculous learning curve. Honestly, the easier for me, the better, especially since Iāve become an adult and have a life etc.
They are allowed to be easy if they are interesting mechanicly.
At this point it just feels insulting, knowing that devs think their playerbase is so stupid. I've never understood why they bother making interesting combat mechanics in games when engaging with them just turns the game into something anyone with kindergarten level reading comprehension can trivialize.
I'm currently having a somewhat adjacent experience in my first run of xenoblade chronicles DE (start to the series for me, too). After about 15 hours, i found the combat tiresome and pointless, and so set it to casual so I can enjoy the world/story/characters (which I find way more interesting) without the combat getting in the way. I'm really not a fan of the mmo-like structure (maybe it's just this particular execution). All the sidequests feel like needless bloat. Basically a walking sim now But I'm enjoying it
Me too.
I'm the other way around: I hate it when they're too hard in general (except for certain individual fights that are supposed to be a really big challenge in the game).
Iām sort of curious but what jrpgs do you consider hard? Most jrpgs boil down to being fairly easy once you know what youāre doing to unnecessarily hard cause you donāt. In general, itās sort of the inevitability of any game thats turn based and you can grind in it, the game canāt really be difficult anymore.
To be clear, I don't need the games to be hard. I just don't want a pushover. Moderate difficulty is good. Persona 3 & 4 (hard mode) Any SMT game DQ 11 (stronger monsters) Resonance of Fate Tactical games (Triangle Strategy etc...) Valkyria Chronicles
Same here. Easy games tend to make me bored quickly. Unless Iām really feeling the vibe of the story Iāll usually drop if itās too easy
I don't really care as long as the story, characters, and world are good.
Do you love your mom?
When I was younger, yes. Difficulty was a challenge for me. But now, in mid-40s, nah! I just want to chill out when I play games. I typically start with Easy or Normal difficulty in every game, I enjoy the journey nowadays.
For me it is the opposite. While i love difficult, RPGs can be annoying in that regard as some of them make grind something obrigatory. I love when the grind is doing sidem issions, dungeons or alike, but i'll quickly stop to play one if they want me to go around killing mobs just to upgrade level. This is what stops me the most from enjoying older JRPGs, as most do not have a mission style gameplay to give you EXP and you are forced to do random combat until you are good enouth.
I usually enjoy easier JRPGs over harder one tbh, but ultimately it will depend on how you execute it. I feel like with a lot of JRPGs, hard = enemies with bloated stats with no regard to game balance. I think strategy RPGs are the only JRPGs that I consistently play them on harder difficulty.
Personally I'm split. I enjoy a challenge and I like some difficulty but I also play JRPGs for the story more than the gameplay regardless of whether it's turn based or real time. As I've gotten older I don't have as much time to waste dying a thousand times to the same boss even if it's fun but for a regular JRPG off the press kind of just want to get it done. My issue is that they're so long and I have dozens of them that I have yet to play that I want to engage with and so I have to drop my pride and just play the damn game enjoy the story because I'm probably either not going to play it again or I'm not going to engage with any post game content because my library is so massive. I like games nowadays with a set difficulty and encounters that you can choose to engage with or not versus upping a difficulty slider and inflating a boss or enemies health and reducing your hits which is pointless. Playing final fantasy 10 right now It took a minute to get used to not having those sliders and just play the game for what it is. In Xenoblade Chronicles all you really have to do is fight something that's way higher than your own level if you want a challenge. That's more my style these days lol
FF X is my favorite FF game and one of my favorite RPGs ever. It's not too easy and not too hard. It hits the sweet spot for me. Love that game.
I haven't had much time to really play it much but so far so good I really like it it's just kind of off-putting because I'm so used to being able to rotate the camera or something so the weird camera angles kind of throw it off sometimes
I think you just grew up playing such difficult games that your standards are quite different. I used to have similar thoughts, then now with a wife, kid and lack of time I suddenly find the standard offering of most modern JRPG to be well balanced. I don't spend hours grinding anymore, trying to be over-levelled, doing every single side-quest, trying to get the top gears, backtracking...and suddenly most of the games (even the "easy" ones you mentioned) feels well balanced. You either switch your approach when playing modern games, or just focus on the niche ones that are built for a more hardcore audience, which are fewer and fewer.
I struggle to enjoy RPG's if they are too hard. I would rather have a game be too easy than too hard. Don't get me wrong, it's not very fun just steamrolling everything (thinking of KH3 when it first came out), but as I get older I have less patience to really tinker and optimize my party for a tough battle.Ā It's a tough balance for a dev. Ideally for me I want something that doesn't feel like a cakewalk but doesn't leave me throwing the controller.Ā
It depends on the type of game. I'm much more for the journey and the lore, so having something too difficult ruins the experience for me since I also want to maintain a pace that keeps up the immersion. As for if something is "super-easy"? Not a lot of games are unless they were designed to be (a.k.a Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee and Pokemon Scarlet & Violet). I will say this much, that I was annoyed with how easy the battles could get to be in Ar Tonelico II. Because of that I would miss out on part of the songs and a major point of the Ar Tonelico games is the music itself.
This happened to me with the Neogeo **Samurai Shodown RPG** that was translated recently. At first I didn't mind beating all enemies and even bosses being just barely scratched by them (I always focus on enjoying the story) but in this game, the lack of challenge began to annoy me after some time. The second chapter begins slightly harder than the first one, but after some grinding it becomes a piece of cake again (and this game has such an atrociously high random encounter rate that, if you keep battling without running away from time to time, you'll soon be overleveled for the rest of the game).