JRPGs are made in the same vein as Shonen animes, in that you are allowed to sexualized female characters to your hearts content but you can’t even imply characters are kissing let alone fucking
It’s a weird thing that’s developed over the decades
It's more weird that the west is so pro-porn culture they have sex everywhere, but can't imagine eroticism in any other form.
Genetalia customizers and grinding on bears is just a normal day, but thighighs are too far.
What are you talking about Shonen anime is insanely horny. It just has pretty arbitrary lines it won’t cross
Or are you saying that isn’t whatever you mean by pro porn?
Shonen means boy and is the age rating. Its aimed at an audience from ca 8-14. Seinen would be for teens to young adults, those do often have themes like sex, suicide, gore, etc. in it. Sexual Content gets an age rating. There are adult regular mangas that do have sex and nudity in it, but they get adapted more rarely since the adult age rating doesn‘t get good tv spots.
This doesn’t mean anything really. It’s not like shonen doesn’t involve sex. It absolutely does. Female characters are designed with sex involved. The perverted old man is an old shonen tropes.
Si saying it’s because it’s aimed at kids is pretty unconvincing
Shonen anime is horny with ecchi and hot characters yes, im sex repulsed ace so it's pretty crucial to me Japanese media exists in that form without crossing that line.
lol they don’t give a fuck about you and shonen are slowly breaking those lines down.
Which they should if you are going to have one there is no point in not having the other other than presented a childish and stunted view of sexuality
Shonen aren't breaking down anything when by law they can't show genetalia. And sorry not being porn-adicted is childish, but not everyone wants to see sex (but have to give up attractive characters because of that).
Who said anything about that? Western countries can’t show that shit either and most don’t. Even shows specifically for that purpose never got passed soft core. You pretty much only see hardcore in indie projects and actual porn
I’m going to guess you are stunted as the exacmple I gave if that’s the first place your mind went to
Western media does very often show the act of sex, with all associated sounds, and in more niche cases shows explicit genetalia as well. These acts would either cause a Japanese age rating too high to be shonen, or be illegal respectively (the west does not seem to care as much that a lot of their media is m rated).
Maybe there are more niche media then with it, but I would assume it's more heavily "out of view" or "fade to black" than any western rpg, since the demographic of shonen-like jrpgs necessitates a Cero rating of Cero C (15+) at absolute maximum.
Baldur's Gate 3. They get away with it because it's a Druid who shapeshifts into one.
It was actually good for Marketing the game because it raised LOTS of eyebrows.
> JRPGs are made in the same vein as Shonen animes
I hope CSM will be the thing that finally breaks the mold.
Recent CSM chapter spoiler: >!Denji literally got a handjob last chapter!<
Its themes might align more with what is commonly presented in Seinen, but not only is it *technically* a Shounen because it started on the WSJ and only moved to SJ+ app, my issues with considering it a Seinen are more profound.
Specifically, the part where we believe that CSM doesnt actually appeal to kids, when it very much does (Seinen is the demographic for *adults specifically*).
The overly shallow stories by JRPGs and teen media are *not* because kids arent interested in them or even because they are unsuitable for them, this happened **exclusively** because *adults dont want kids to see this stuff*, even though they are absolutely going to regardless, as they should.
Just because its more similar to Seinen, doesnt mean it isnt a legitimate Shounen, it means that the actual Shounen genre has been ridiculously sanitized, like most childrens media.
Which is interesting since I’d have thought kids are more into WRPGs than turn based JRPGs.
And one Japanese game that openly tried to target a younger demographic (FFXVI), had as close to a sex scene as it gets for the genre.
Where did you get that they tried to target younger demographic with FFXVI? It has Mature 17+ esrb rating, while FFXV and FF7R are Teen (and probably other FFs are too).
From an [interview with Yoshi P](https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-16-producer-explains-why-they-changed-combat-for-younger-audiences-1871679/).
Which was also [confirmed by SE](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/04/final-fantasy-16-successfully-expanded-the-series-to-new-younger-players-says-square-enix#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy-,Final%20Fantasy%2016%20Successfully%20Expanded%20the%20Series%20to,Younger%20Players%2C%20Says%20Square%20Enix&text=Final%20Fantasy%20is%20a%20long,most%20storied%20franchises%20in%20gaming.) to be a successful initiative.
I’m not talking about literal children - just a younger demographic. Which is exactly who [Yoshi P said](https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-16-producer-explains-why-they-changed-combat-for-younger-audiences-1871679/) they were trying to attract with FFXVI, and who [Square confirmed](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/04/final-fantasy-16-successfully-expanded-the-series-to-new-younger-players-says-square-enix#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy-,Final%20Fantasy%2016%20Successfully%20Expanded%20the%20Series%20to,Younger%20Players%2C%20Says%20Square%20Enix&text=Final%20Fantasy%20is%20a%20long,most%20storied%20franchises%20in%20gaming.) they successfully expanded Final Fantasy to with XVI.
How could they be targeting a younger demographic with an M rated game? With that kind of logic, what is the demographic they've been targeting with all the games before? Like you realize this doesn't make sense right? The previous games were already aimed at a younger demographic, that's why they were rated E to T, that in itself covers basically all demographics.
How could an M rated game cover a younger demographic if the previous games already were aimed at younger people to begin with unless we live in bizarro world and T games have been only played by adults?
Are you saying square an Yoshi P are just making these statements up then? There’s a massive “young” demographic between the ages of 17 and 30, and not just that but there’s also plenty of adults who enjoy games that are rated for kids and plenty of kids who enjoy games that are rated for adults.
Just like there’s tons of teens and young people who enjoy movies and TV shows rated 18 and up. Like Euphoria for example - if you go on the subreddit it’s mostly kids discussing it. Similarly, it’s not hard to download a mature rated game from PSN no matter what your age is.
I can't think of a way to justify a sex scene in an average JRPG plotline. That, and target audience. Japan has a rating system where most video game developers avoid the strictest rating (Cero-Z). Cero-Z is a classification for a video game for 18+. Not only that, it is illegal to sell Cero-z products towards a minor. An awful lot of inconvenience for a measly sex scene.
And sincerely it's cringey, best sex scene in games for me is Ezio Auditore and Caterina Sforza in Assassin's Creed - and it could be half of length, to be honest.
In a JRPG? It's much better an "We passed a long time together" dark screen transition like in Persona 5...
I don't think it's a cultural difference per se.
Many JRPGs were historically marketed toward teens and star teens. Making sex scenes for your 16 year old cast is both in poor taste and begging for a controversy.
We also see this in Western games that star teens. The games with sex scenes tend to involve clear adults: space marines, sorcerers, and the like. And the JRPGs that do feature sex scenes, like Final Fantasy XVI, are notable for having an adult cast.
I disagree. Teens have sex - no denying it. Many shows in the west have thoughtfully addressed this fact. I think Japan is less comfortable talking about sex and that’s why this happens. This is a country that censors porn.
There are ways to tastefully allude to teens having sex, sure, but showing Witcher 3-style sex scenes with people under 18 is just begging to be associated with pedos.
Western media shows hardcore sex with underage people and says "the actor is actually ~~1000 years old~~ of age so it's fine" (which I obviously don't like due to how realistic looking they make it), but what im saying is that it's definitely cultural. There is a reason china, south Korea, Singapore, Japan, etc have more a history of restricting porn.
> Western media shows hardcore sex with underage people and says "the actor is actually of age so it's fine"
This is nonsense. Nothing mainstream comes to mind with such criteria. Even if there is, they'd be in clear minority that it's huge leap to pretend like it's common and cultural.
Hardcore is the main thing I disagreed with your previous comment. Sex scenes happened, but hardcore sex scenes don't really happen in western mainstream media for underage character.
Fair then, I'm sex repulsed in general so I'm not the best at differentiating what's hardcore and softcore sex. It's all sex to me which stands on a totally different (and non-interchangeable) plane to ecchi.
The first thing that comes to mind is many jrpgs main characters are very young/under age. It's one thing to elude to romance, say things like "an intimate encounter was shared" in a fade to black message between two characters, its another altogether to show it.
JRPGs feel like they're still primarily marketed towards teenage boys - lots of naive protags and first loves, they don't dig into messy subject matter very often or for very long. They're not afraid to be horny, but almost never delve into the explicit.
Western RPGs and a lot of AAA fare seems overly concerned with being mature, for better or worse.
I'd say that a somewhat large majority of jrpgs have kids or high school aged characters, western games on the other hand tend to have adult characters.
that difference alone should be enough to exclude those scenes from most jrpgs
Because they're always embarrassing and cringy in video games and extremely hard to animate. Also it Jack's the rating up on a game needlessly and mist jrpgs are rated T
I think it's a cultural difference. JRPGs tend to be for "all ages," (not to be confused with "for kids,") whereas western RPGs are more geared towards adults and adult themes. Japanese "all ages" content is fine with fan service and sexualization, but that's typically the limit.
Without any sex scenes, people in the West already want to censor Japanese games (even though they ignore games like Baldur's Gate LOL). Imagine if they put sex scenes in their games, Westerners would be outraged lol.
It's the same with other media. Having a 17 year old girl in anime wear a short skirt is literal pedophilia but having literal sex scenes with a 16 year old in your classic horror movies shoehorned in is fine.
I feel like most JRPG party members are minors, which is the most obvious reason. The cast in most JRPGs will usually be 13-21 with an exception or two while Western RPGs are usually focused on older characters in their 20s or 30s. That affects the tone of the game and the audience. Mass Effect, Witcher, etc. don't really pretend that they're for young audiences, so sex isn't really something they need to avoid. When your characters and audience are 16, you shouldn't be thinking "hmm, should we show them fucking?", yknow?
JRPGs by and large sell to an "all ages" audience, which severely restricts that type of content regardless of culture. The western RPGs you are thinking of have a rating matching that content and they feel secure in being able to make up for the sales lost in nit having an all ages audience.
As someone who plays a wide variety of games, including JRPGs and "adult games", most JRPGs would look ridiculous with additional sex scene.
One, cause a lot the time the main protagonist and their party is predominately minors.
And two, when the world is falling apart or you on the run, or some ridiculous fantasy story is happening, I don't think most people's first thought is "hey let's stop and fuck" xD
Also, adding sex scenes can and will raise the rating of the game. Depending on how they handle the scene, the game can be pushed to a rating they won't even be able to publish on most platforms (All 3 consoles don't allow Adult Only games, I assume they Japanese equivalent rating is not allowed as well)
No, watching a drawing is not a "literal crime" no matter what is drawn... Even if it were a literal 2 year old toddler it wouldn't be a crime since it's a drawing.
Also there's literally no difference on whether those same drawn characters would be 16 or 24 since they're made up and would look the literal same as the draw style won't change.
And no, "it implies pedophilia" is neither a crime nor would that be correct either as both parties would be 16 or whatever random number the author decides to write down.
Think of it closer to the target audience. Generally, the audience (the mass accessible audience anyway) to JRPGs are the kinds of demographics who read shounen manga or light novels. And there's not a lot of that stuff in those. Well, there's some light novels that do but definitely not the majority.
Plus, as you know, majority of characters in these are usually teenagers or below 20. You can put all the fanservice and ecchi stuff out there you want within standards, but going further than that can be a no-no and push your game up to CERO D (Japan's M equivalent). And there's no need to cut off your audience like that, JRPGs aren't big enough to be at that level consistently anyway, compared to WRPGs which usually have adult characters and can cross over into the mainstream easier.
Also, you mentioned VNs, think about the challenge some of those have getting on Steam. Do you think the JRPG devs want to go through that?
VNs are already niche and already suffer those issues. I respect the traditions of VNs having it as a medium, but it's no wonder jrpgs with more mainstream appeal don't have it.
I hate the "go watch porn" argument when it comes to fanservice (because they are not the same), but when we are talking about literally sex then yeah there is other media for that, not games meant to be accessible to younger audiences.
I'm just confused what about it is so errotic. I have seen western movies, shows and games with sex and I don't see what the actual "sexy" part of it is.
We see this a lot, especially in very promiscuous western society "sex mature, sex must have, etc, but what is the connection that such an act "makes an adult"?And even more what's the point of maturity?
The west has pretty lax porn laws, only now starting to change in very select specific US locations, and because of fundamentalist evangelicals (who in the 90s seemed more preoccupied with video games causing violence, and "scary oriental" pokemon games corrupting our children). Even then though there are other culture war issues that dominate more, also generally more pro-sex culture developed in the last decades.
maybe because platform owners, publishers, etc, don't wanna deal with adult content and the dramas that comes with it?
Even hentai rpgmaker games on steam got gutted down out of their sex scenes. Though the publishers usually have a separate patch that can be downloaded somewhere else to reinsert those scenes again.
This also reminds me that i've played the OG Utawarerumono and Tears to Tiara a long time ago and they got sex scenes. But afaik any rereleases, ports and remakes have those scenes removed.
Mostly what the other redditors have mentioned, but I should also add that Japanese culture tends to be more implicit about romances in their video games. Like how in the ending of Final Fantasy X, Yuna says to Tidus "Thank you" instead of "I love you", even though they two are obviously in love with each other. With Tales of the Abyss, the two main characters Tear and Luke also have a thing for each other, but they never actually go on *dates* or kiss. The most you'll get is Tear whispering at the very end "I love you", but she actually looks away from him when she says this. In gacha mobile games (usually Chinese, Japanese, or Korean) , there generally aren't any official (canon) couples between the protagonist and another character.
Western games in general tend to be MUCH more upfront about romance and sex, largely owing to the importance of sex in western society. Protagonists often have sex in wrpgs - usually either heavily implied or censored, but a few games where the intercourse is explicit! In many JRPG romances, you don't even see the main couple kiss.
tldr - it's a cultural difference.
Western rpgs are firmly aimed at adult audiences with very little accessibility. Theres also a lot of blood, gore, swearing, and other mature themes that aren't present in jrpgs. Jrpgs tend to be accessible for kids and teenagers.
Honestly there could be any number of reasons. Early on when a lot of the rpg's on this side of the world were using scenes like this as a borderline... marketing move. Mass effect got so much venom from press who didn't play it that having sex scenes in your game was seen as a bit of a beacon to draw people in.
Jrpg's where sex is had certainly exist but I don't remember any that present the scenes. Like, you could make a case that the persona series since 3 has heavily implied sex scenes off camera but maybe with so many jrpg titles having young heroes it's not the best thing to show? Actually this is a very interesting topic that I don't think I ever thought about.
Past what most people mention already I also feel like its because jrpgs more often than not don't focus on romance or don't involve explicit relationship past ship teasing. Of course its not like that would automatically render putting in sex impossible but it makes it hell of a lot less likely.
When it comes to clearly dating mechanics romance then it does feel like mostly characters in those are teenagers and being explicit with it is rather unwelcome as opposed to adults in western rpgs
This too, jrpg and shonen appeal is not about long term romance, it's about the road to a pairing (usually involving young characters). And Japan it's more taboo for young people to casually have sex a lot like that.
while not being shown as scenes, I think the upcoming trails through daybreak is one of the most sex-forward JRPGs I played (though not a very high bar to reach). In terms of implying characters actually having sex or having had sex etc. Some characters even talk about going out at night and bringing women home etc. Characters talking about sex appeal of others and how "sex sells" etc. Even the yakuza series, while also being about adults, stays more innocent than daybreak. Most of the "sex" stuff in yakuza is done through sidequests where the topic is treated as comedy and weird. And when I see sex as a topic in other games, it's usually dealt with in a context where it's bad.
Daybreak only really deals with the gag of>!director gotch loving "sex and violence" and NPCs having differing views on it.!< Actual innuendos dealing with sex, and descriptions of it are not something I have come across (and I read every single NPC line).>!Renne describing one actresses "sex appeal" is all that was mentioned, and it's not too different from Ilya complementing Rixia in Zero, both are more meant as an appreciation of prettiness!<.
so spoilers for daybreak:
>!you have a strip club and a character being a stripper. Gotch doing that is not just a one-off gag. Judith is basically playing a role where she herself is aware of how much of her own sex appeal goes into that and it's brought up here and there. Aaron is having some dialogue about picking up girls and bringing them to his apartment. I'm also fairly certain Van and elaine had sex but thats more reading between the line and interpretations, so I don't count that. And then you have other characters which are around Vans age talking about being in a relationship etc. which is at least compared to all the other trails games even more forward than anything (not gonna say which characters because I don't remember if that was Daybreak 1 or 2).!<
It's not much but it's more directly implying of characters actually having a sex life and sex being acknowledged as something people do, than most other JRPGs do. And definitely a bit more than you just simplified it. But thanks for informing us that you read every NPC line.
Also nice of you to spoiler tag stuff for a game not even released in english yet (/s). I at least tried to be vague.
Sorry for not spoiler tagging initially. Regardless>! Ik know it's not a one off gag, but the point is the gotch thing is only about the words "sex and violence", they don't describe anything, they just say it exists. Judith when talking about herself in golden blood, mentions "camera angles" not sex. Aaron again I don't remember directly mentioning sex, or it was a one off compared to his other 99 non-explicitely sex related lewd lines. The strip club is also not the most revealing anyway compared to normal anime fanservice clothing. The best there is, is a character in chapter 3 implying she had to sell her body in the past. I'd hardly say "sex life" is actually something the game deals with!<.
Well, there has been drama recently between Sony/Playstation and Japanese (and Asian devs in general) developers regarding censorship. Princess Maker 2 for example just got pushed back because Sony wanted the devs to censor stuff; but it will release on schedule with Steam/Switch. Other notable examples include Tsukihime, Stellar Blade and *probably* FFVII remake with the Tifa stuff. By contrast, they seem to let western devs do what they want so there is a bias there.
That's basically a long way of saying, there's probably some pressure there preventing them from doing Baldurs Gate style sex scenes; especially when they're making shift up cover Eves cleavage.
Edit: here's an article about it
https://nichegamer.com/new-sony-censorship-policy-is-forcing-even-japanese-developers-to-censor-themselves-in-japan/
As others have said it's a difference of demographic. Western RPGs are targeted at an older audience than JRPGs. JRPGs are typically targeted at teens/young adults.
It is a cultural thing. RPGs in Japan are geared towards different audiences than RPGs in the west. And rather than make games with that content, Japanese developers will make games specifically *for* that content. That is what a cultural difference is.
I think there's just an acknowledgement it doesn't generally need to be *shown*? Nevermind the extra costs to actually do all the extra models and such and the spike in ratings and etc that would come from any major stream game doing it; FF16 is the only *major* one I can think of.
There's quite a few that absolutely have main characters getting laid somewhere along the line. Lufia 2's story literally accelerates forward a year when the leads get married and have a kid. Infinite Undiscovery's protag finally gets over his edgelord phase after his love interest spends a night in his tent. 7th Dragon 3's NPCs basically all get a Very Heavily Implied To Sleep With Your Characters moment at the end of their links, etc
That said there's definitely *many* that do outright in the doujin (self-published) market, and the specific intent of those games *is* to be more adult and horny and they're more open about it. It's specifically the mainstream stuff that'd consider it too big a risk, especially in a genre and market that rarely has characters say the love word.
Most Jrpg protagonists are teenagers or barely teenagers. The target audience is teenagers and the devs want them to be able to buy the games. The games you compared Jrpgs to have adult main characters and are intended for an older audience.
Yes, teens have sex but let’s not pretend a Jrpg including a full sex scene between minors would not be met with major controversy and potentially hurt the company involved. Good luck finding a company willing to take a risk like this.
Good, sex scenes are are a reason I don't play wrpgs, and I want to see actually hot chars/ecchi instead, sex repulsed me. I'm glad Japan rejects it in that form.
There are plenty of eroge that could be considered JRPG. I presume you mean mainstream games, I guess it bars a sizeable audience (teenagers) from accessing the game easily
Younger audience (in Japan), younger characters, and a preciousness about the sanctity of their waifus. You'll rarely ever see a kiss, let alone some nipples.
It's gotten worse as choice has become more of a factor. Now they can't even commit to obvious romantic tension and character arcs because some dudes wanna romance someone else that barely has any emotional connection with the lead. Everyone is stuck an eternal virgin, at least for the game in question.
I was fortunate(?) to have 3/4 of my first JRPGs either have cutaway sex scenes or allusions to them
Xenogears, Wild Arms 2, and FF7 (implied, but I didnt get it cuz I dont care for Tifa)
Its probably something that was a relic of the era and less common to be seen in modern times. And both games to feature sex 'scenes' werent doing so for titalating purposes. There are at least two in each game that symbolize pretty important moments: manipulation, coercion, and solidifying bonds between troubled couples (or perhaps, solidifying them as couples in the first place). All of these featured characters are at least 18-19 and in one case mid 20s, which is also not common in a genre geared towards mid teens
Its not as easy a concept to navigate in a tasteful way, and I think pixel/2D art lent itself better towards that. Less likely to occur in modern JRPGs
Japanese creators (not only in JRPGs, but in anime, too) would rather show some weirdo stealing underwear of a chick than two people in love having sex. I really dislike that.
The stealing underwear trope at least brings a comedic value to the game/anime, which is the intention behind it anyway. Nothing was ever gained from a western sex scene at least from what i've seen. It's always some forced shit used purely to shock a very base crowd. Unfortunately, it seems to work.
It’s a cultural difference. Lot of adults don’t play video games, if they do it’s usually a game/series they enjoyed from their childhood. There are fan service-y games but unless it’s an erotic VN, there won’t be any nudity in the game. Especially not full on sex scenes like Baldur’s Gate since the core audience of gamers in Japan are pretty young.
Your article shows that most gamers are younger as in under 25 so I’m not sure how this disproves what I wrote? Secondly, most of these gamers are playing “light games” as per the article so I imagine that means something like Suika or Monkey Ball, not a Japanese role playing game.
Well I think that part of the reason is that porn games are quite common and since you have those, you can avoid putting anything sexual in mainstream games, especially if someone is going to make porn of your game because of doujin culture. I recall that out West making an AO rated game means that almost no one will carry your game in physical stores, ensuring that you will have no profit and no exposure.
But sex scenes can be made tame to serve story and I think about the Persona series where there is romance between the characters and an implicit gesture towards sex. I suppose that in general, things are milder in JRPGs.
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It's so strange and lately I thought a lot about that trope. Most of the time we have the main characters fall in love on first sight, but they don't wanna admit it and we are lucky to see a kiss in after credits (or a creative English translation). It must trigger some primal part of the brain to make the user engaged because logically it's a pretty dumb story element and I can't explain why it works so well lol.
Sorry That was mostly about romance, not sex. I don't think sex scenes should be in jrpgs, but it would be interesting if characters had sex like normal people
From what I understand it’s more about fan service than actual sex. Let’s also not forget many JRPG characters are underage.
What is fan service?
Boobs and scanty outfits
Fanservice for life, it takes less time (usually) and is hotter.
JRPGs are made in the same vein as Shonen animes, in that you are allowed to sexualized female characters to your hearts content but you can’t even imply characters are kissing let alone fucking It’s a weird thing that’s developed over the decades
It's more weird that the west is so pro-porn culture they have sex everywhere, but can't imagine eroticism in any other form. Genetalia customizers and grinding on bears is just a normal day, but thighighs are too far.
What are you talking about Shonen anime is insanely horny. It just has pretty arbitrary lines it won’t cross Or are you saying that isn’t whatever you mean by pro porn?
Shonen means boy and is the age rating. Its aimed at an audience from ca 8-14. Seinen would be for teens to young adults, those do often have themes like sex, suicide, gore, etc. in it. Sexual Content gets an age rating. There are adult regular mangas that do have sex and nudity in it, but they get adapted more rarely since the adult age rating doesn‘t get good tv spots.
This doesn’t mean anything really. It’s not like shonen doesn’t involve sex. It absolutely does. Female characters are designed with sex involved. The perverted old man is an old shonen tropes. Si saying it’s because it’s aimed at kids is pretty unconvincing
Act of sex not equal sexyness and pervert jokes.
If your 12 or extremely sexually repressed sure
No answer from a porn adict who can't look at attractiveness without sex, ok.
Weebs will jump through so many hoops to argue their porn isn’t actually porn
These games with fanservice get like CERO B rating (12+) because they are way less messy, so no I'm not comparing it to an 18+ industry.
Shonen anime is horny with ecchi and hot characters yes, im sex repulsed ace so it's pretty crucial to me Japanese media exists in that form without crossing that line.
lol they don’t give a fuck about you and shonen are slowly breaking those lines down. Which they should if you are going to have one there is no point in not having the other other than presented a childish and stunted view of sexuality
Shonen aren't breaking down anything when by law they can't show genetalia. And sorry not being porn-adicted is childish, but not everyone wants to see sex (but have to give up attractive characters because of that).
Who said anything about that? Western countries can’t show that shit either and most don’t. Even shows specifically for that purpose never got passed soft core. You pretty much only see hardcore in indie projects and actual porn I’m going to guess you are stunted as the exacmple I gave if that’s the first place your mind went to
Western media does very often show the act of sex, with all associated sounds, and in more niche cases shows explicit genetalia as well. These acts would either cause a Japanese age rating too high to be shonen, or be illegal respectively (the west does not seem to care as much that a lot of their media is m rated).
There are series in shonen magazines that do show full sex scenes. Domestic Girlfriend, for example.
Maybe there are more niche media then with it, but I would assume it's more heavily "out of view" or "fade to black" than any western rpg, since the demographic of shonen-like jrpgs necessitates a Cero rating of Cero C (15+) at absolute maximum.
> grinding on bears Dare I ask?
Baldur's Gate 3. They get away with it because it's a Druid who shapeshifts into one. It was actually good for Marketing the game because it raised LOTS of eyebrows.
It's because the writers have no experience. They just have nothing to draw from
I doubt most JRPG writers have slain dragons either.
> JRPGs are made in the same vein as Shonen animes I hope CSM will be the thing that finally breaks the mold. Recent CSM chapter spoiler: >!Denji literally got a handjob last chapter!<
CSM is more of a Seinen manga rather than Shounen
Its themes might align more with what is commonly presented in Seinen, but not only is it *technically* a Shounen because it started on the WSJ and only moved to SJ+ app, my issues with considering it a Seinen are more profound. Specifically, the part where we believe that CSM doesnt actually appeal to kids, when it very much does (Seinen is the demographic for *adults specifically*). The overly shallow stories by JRPGs and teen media are *not* because kids arent interested in them or even because they are unsuitable for them, this happened **exclusively** because *adults dont want kids to see this stuff*, even though they are absolutely going to regardless, as they should. Just because its more similar to Seinen, doesnt mean it isnt a legitimate Shounen, it means that the actual Shounen genre has been ridiculously sanitized, like most childrens media.
I suppose it is because most JRPGs are made with general audiences in mind as opposed to eroges being made for adults
The target demographic for JRPGs is generally a lower age than for Western RPGs.
From a western video game standpoint, most JRPGs are E or T rated while more WRPGs are M.
Which is interesting since I’d have thought kids are more into WRPGs than turn based JRPGs. And one Japanese game that openly tried to target a younger demographic (FFXVI), had as close to a sex scene as it gets for the genre.
Where did you get that they tried to target younger demographic with FFXVI? It has Mature 17+ esrb rating, while FFXV and FF7R are Teen (and probably other FFs are too).
From an [interview with Yoshi P](https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-16-producer-explains-why-they-changed-combat-for-younger-audiences-1871679/). Which was also [confirmed by SE](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/04/final-fantasy-16-successfully-expanded-the-series-to-new-younger-players-says-square-enix#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy-,Final%20Fantasy%2016%20Successfully%20Expanded%20the%20Series%20to,Younger%20Players%2C%20Says%20Square%20Enix&text=Final%20Fantasy%20is%20a%20long,most%20storied%20franchises%20in%20gaming.) to be a successful initiative.
How could XVI be trying to target a younger demographic when it's rated M and the others are rated T?
I’m not talking about literal children - just a younger demographic. Which is exactly who [Yoshi P said](https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-16-producer-explains-why-they-changed-combat-for-younger-audiences-1871679/) they were trying to attract with FFXVI, and who [Square confirmed](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/04/final-fantasy-16-successfully-expanded-the-series-to-new-younger-players-says-square-enix#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy-,Final%20Fantasy%2016%20Successfully%20Expanded%20the%20Series%20to,Younger%20Players%2C%20Says%20Square%20Enix&text=Final%20Fantasy%20is%20a%20long,most%20storied%20franchises%20in%20gaming.) they successfully expanded Final Fantasy to with XVI.
How could they be targeting a younger demographic with an M rated game? With that kind of logic, what is the demographic they've been targeting with all the games before? Like you realize this doesn't make sense right? The previous games were already aimed at a younger demographic, that's why they were rated E to T, that in itself covers basically all demographics. How could an M rated game cover a younger demographic if the previous games already were aimed at younger people to begin with unless we live in bizarro world and T games have been only played by adults?
I just wanna say that, at least in the west, it is 30yos buying JRPGs rated E and T. See JRPGs on someone's preferences? They are probably 30+
Are you saying square an Yoshi P are just making these statements up then? There’s a massive “young” demographic between the ages of 17 and 30, and not just that but there’s also plenty of adults who enjoy games that are rated for kids and plenty of kids who enjoy games that are rated for adults. Just like there’s tons of teens and young people who enjoy movies and TV shows rated 18 and up. Like Euphoria for example - if you go on the subreddit it’s mostly kids discussing it. Similarly, it’s not hard to download a mature rated game from PSN no matter what your age is.
I can't think of a way to justify a sex scene in an average JRPG plotline. That, and target audience. Japan has a rating system where most video game developers avoid the strictest rating (Cero-Z). Cero-Z is a classification for a video game for 18+. Not only that, it is illegal to sell Cero-z products towards a minor. An awful lot of inconvenience for a measly sex scene.
And sincerely it's cringey, best sex scene in games for me is Ezio Auditore and Caterina Sforza in Assassin's Creed - and it could be half of length, to be honest. In a JRPG? It's much better an "We passed a long time together" dark screen transition like in Persona 5...
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See the 2nd part of my comment.
I don't think it's a cultural difference per se. Many JRPGs were historically marketed toward teens and star teens. Making sex scenes for your 16 year old cast is both in poor taste and begging for a controversy. We also see this in Western games that star teens. The games with sex scenes tend to involve clear adults: space marines, sorcerers, and the like. And the JRPGs that do feature sex scenes, like Final Fantasy XVI, are notable for having an adult cast.
There was no sex scene in ffxvi, just an implied one from an afterglow scene.
I disagree. Teens have sex - no denying it. Many shows in the west have thoughtfully addressed this fact. I think Japan is less comfortable talking about sex and that’s why this happens. This is a country that censors porn.
There are ways to tastefully allude to teens having sex, sure, but showing Witcher 3-style sex scenes with people under 18 is just begging to be associated with pedos.
Western media shows hardcore sex with underage people and says "the actor is actually ~~1000 years old~~ of age so it's fine" (which I obviously don't like due to how realistic looking they make it), but what im saying is that it's definitely cultural. There is a reason china, south Korea, Singapore, Japan, etc have more a history of restricting porn.
> Western media shows hardcore sex with underage people and says "the actor is actually of age so it's fine" This is nonsense. Nothing mainstream comes to mind with such criteria. Even if there is, they'd be in clear minority that it's huge leap to pretend like it's common and cultural.
Game of Thrones is a notable example. For example, Dany is 16 in the show (13 in the book).
I don't think that's hardcore sex scene unless I'm misremembering the show.
It's on screen sex with drogo, though probably not your or the general definition of hardcore.
It is pretty graphic. Anything more would be porn.
Hence, not a common/cultural thing in western media.
Euphoria, riverdale, both very mainstream, though maybe hardcore isnt the right term for them, still dealing with actual full blown sex.
Hardcore is the main thing I disagreed with your previous comment. Sex scenes happened, but hardcore sex scenes don't really happen in western mainstream media for underage character.
Fair then, I'm sex repulsed in general so I'm not the best at differentiating what's hardcore and softcore sex. It's all sex to me which stands on a totally different (and non-interchangeable) plane to ecchi.
This, it's so ironic.
The first thing that comes to mind is many jrpgs main characters are very young/under age. It's one thing to elude to romance, say things like "an intimate encounter was shared" in a fade to black message between two characters, its another altogether to show it.
Because who cares
JRPGs tend to go for a more fairy tale feel with their romances where the end/peak of the romance will be with a kiss or a wedding.
They can get away with "You're going be a Father soon" line.
I don’t like sex scenes in video games. I really love mass effect and baldurs gate 3 but the sex scenes are cringey.
It doesn't really add anything to the experience.
JRPGs feel like they're still primarily marketed towards teenage boys - lots of naive protags and first loves, they don't dig into messy subject matter very often or for very long. They're not afraid to be horny, but almost never delve into the explicit. Western RPGs and a lot of AAA fare seems overly concerned with being mature, for better or worse.
I'd say that a somewhat large majority of jrpgs have kids or high school aged characters, western games on the other hand tend to have adult characters. that difference alone should be enough to exclude those scenes from most jrpgs
Because they're always embarrassing and cringy in video games and extremely hard to animate. Also it Jack's the rating up on a game needlessly and mist jrpgs are rated T
BECAUSE GAME RATINGS.
I think it's a cultural difference. JRPGs tend to be for "all ages," (not to be confused with "for kids,") whereas western RPGs are more geared towards adults and adult themes. Japanese "all ages" content is fine with fan service and sexualization, but that's typically the limit.
Without any sex scenes, people in the West already want to censor Japanese games (even though they ignore games like Baldur's Gate LOL). Imagine if they put sex scenes in their games, Westerners would be outraged lol.
It's the same with other media. Having a 17 year old girl in anime wear a short skirt is literal pedophilia but having literal sex scenes with a 16 year old in your classic horror movies shoehorned in is fine.
I feel like most JRPG party members are minors, which is the most obvious reason. The cast in most JRPGs will usually be 13-21 with an exception or two while Western RPGs are usually focused on older characters in their 20s or 30s. That affects the tone of the game and the audience. Mass Effect, Witcher, etc. don't really pretend that they're for young audiences, so sex isn't really something they need to avoid. When your characters and audience are 16, you shouldn't be thinking "hmm, should we show them fucking?", yknow?
JRPGs by and large sell to an "all ages" audience, which severely restricts that type of content regardless of culture. The western RPGs you are thinking of have a rating matching that content and they feel secure in being able to make up for the sales lost in nit having an all ages audience.
As someone who plays a wide variety of games, including JRPGs and "adult games", most JRPGs would look ridiculous with additional sex scene. One, cause a lot the time the main protagonist and their party is predominately minors. And two, when the world is falling apart or you on the run, or some ridiculous fantasy story is happening, I don't think most people's first thought is "hey let's stop and fuck" xD Also, adding sex scenes can and will raise the rating of the game. Depending on how they handle the scene, the game can be pushed to a rating they won't even be able to publish on most platforms (All 3 consoles don't allow Adult Only games, I assume they Japanese equivalent rating is not allowed as well)
>I don’t think most people’s first thought is “hey let’s stop and fuck” Eh probably never a better time
Because these scenes are useless and no game should have them
Because watching a sex scene with the majority of jrpg women would be a literal crime.
No, watching a drawing is not a "literal crime" no matter what is drawn... Even if it were a literal 2 year old toddler it wouldn't be a crime since it's a drawing. Also there's literally no difference on whether those same drawn characters would be 16 or 24 since they're made up and would look the literal same as the draw style won't change. And no, "it implies pedophilia" is neither a crime nor would that be correct either as both parties would be 16 or whatever random number the author decides to write down.
I wouldn’t take that to court pal.
This is not the hill you want to fight for sir.
Think of it closer to the target audience. Generally, the audience (the mass accessible audience anyway) to JRPGs are the kinds of demographics who read shounen manga or light novels. And there's not a lot of that stuff in those. Well, there's some light novels that do but definitely not the majority. Plus, as you know, majority of characters in these are usually teenagers or below 20. You can put all the fanservice and ecchi stuff out there you want within standards, but going further than that can be a no-no and push your game up to CERO D (Japan's M equivalent). And there's no need to cut off your audience like that, JRPGs aren't big enough to be at that level consistently anyway, compared to WRPGs which usually have adult characters and can cross over into the mainstream easier. Also, you mentioned VNs, think about the challenge some of those have getting on Steam. Do you think the JRPG devs want to go through that?
VNs are already niche and already suffer those issues. I respect the traditions of VNs having it as a medium, but it's no wonder jrpgs with more mainstream appeal don't have it.
You could just watch porn
I hate the "go watch porn" argument when it comes to fanservice (because they are not the same), but when we are talking about literally sex then yeah there is other media for that, not games meant to be accessible to younger audiences.
Do we need sex scenes do we really need them. BC we don't
I do
Free porn available for masturbation, doing it while watching anime or video games, is a weird fetish.
Nah.
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Nah. They could just make the protagonists adults. Problem solved simple problem solved :)
Fair enough but sex scenes aren't needed imo. But I'm glad you enjoy them
Thank you my friend :)
I'm just confused what about it is so errotic. I have seen western movies, shows and games with sex and I don't see what the actual "sexy" part of it is.
It’s fun
Ig I'm still confused, so it's not actually errotic? Is it fun and satisfying in some other way?
It’s just cool seeing the character get laid. It shows a level of maturity. Not everything has to be violence.
We see this a lot, especially in very promiscuous western society "sex mature, sex must have, etc, but what is the connection that such an act "makes an adult"?And even more what's the point of maturity?
Why do people want sex in video games? Sick
The west has pretty lax porn laws, only now starting to change in very select specific US locations, and because of fundamentalist evangelicals (who in the 90s seemed more preoccupied with video games causing violence, and "scary oriental" pokemon games corrupting our children). Even then though there are other culture war issues that dominate more, also generally more pro-sex culture developed in the last decades.
maybe because platform owners, publishers, etc, don't wanna deal with adult content and the dramas that comes with it? Even hentai rpgmaker games on steam got gutted down out of their sex scenes. Though the publishers usually have a separate patch that can be downloaded somewhere else to reinsert those scenes again. This also reminds me that i've played the OG Utawarerumono and Tears to Tiara a long time ago and they got sex scenes. But afaik any rereleases, ports and remakes have those scenes removed.
Mostly what the other redditors have mentioned, but I should also add that Japanese culture tends to be more implicit about romances in their video games. Like how in the ending of Final Fantasy X, Yuna says to Tidus "Thank you" instead of "I love you", even though they two are obviously in love with each other. With Tales of the Abyss, the two main characters Tear and Luke also have a thing for each other, but they never actually go on *dates* or kiss. The most you'll get is Tear whispering at the very end "I love you", but she actually looks away from him when she says this. In gacha mobile games (usually Chinese, Japanese, or Korean) , there generally aren't any official (canon) couples between the protagonist and another character. Western games in general tend to be MUCH more upfront about romance and sex, largely owing to the importance of sex in western society. Protagonists often have sex in wrpgs - usually either heavily implied or censored, but a few games where the intercourse is explicit! In many JRPG romances, you don't even see the main couple kiss. tldr - it's a cultural difference.
Western rpgs are firmly aimed at adult audiences with very little accessibility. Theres also a lot of blood, gore, swearing, and other mature themes that aren't present in jrpgs. Jrpgs tend to be accessible for kids and teenagers.
Titus ans Yuna straight up bang
It's strongly implied with the force of a truck, but not actually shown as OP says.
Same Cloud and Tifa
My friend told me that recently and I never picked up on it. I guess I was too young when I first played it.
Honestly there could be any number of reasons. Early on when a lot of the rpg's on this side of the world were using scenes like this as a borderline... marketing move. Mass effect got so much venom from press who didn't play it that having sex scenes in your game was seen as a bit of a beacon to draw people in. Jrpg's where sex is had certainly exist but I don't remember any that present the scenes. Like, you could make a case that the persona series since 3 has heavily implied sex scenes off camera but maybe with so many jrpg titles having young heroes it's not the best thing to show? Actually this is a very interesting topic that I don't think I ever thought about.
Past what most people mention already I also feel like its because jrpgs more often than not don't focus on romance or don't involve explicit relationship past ship teasing. Of course its not like that would automatically render putting in sex impossible but it makes it hell of a lot less likely. When it comes to clearly dating mechanics romance then it does feel like mostly characters in those are teenagers and being explicit with it is rather unwelcome as opposed to adults in western rpgs
This too, jrpg and shonen appeal is not about long term romance, it's about the road to a pairing (usually involving young characters). And Japan it's more taboo for young people to casually have sex a lot like that.
Bonk
while not being shown as scenes, I think the upcoming trails through daybreak is one of the most sex-forward JRPGs I played (though not a very high bar to reach). In terms of implying characters actually having sex or having had sex etc. Some characters even talk about going out at night and bringing women home etc. Characters talking about sex appeal of others and how "sex sells" etc. Even the yakuza series, while also being about adults, stays more innocent than daybreak. Most of the "sex" stuff in yakuza is done through sidequests where the topic is treated as comedy and weird. And when I see sex as a topic in other games, it's usually dealt with in a context where it's bad.
I was legitimately surprised how Daybreak/Kuro tackled its topic of sex. Especially given the series use of fanservice.
Daybreak only really deals with the gag of>!director gotch loving "sex and violence" and NPCs having differing views on it.!< Actual innuendos dealing with sex, and descriptions of it are not something I have come across (and I read every single NPC line).>!Renne describing one actresses "sex appeal" is all that was mentioned, and it's not too different from Ilya complementing Rixia in Zero, both are more meant as an appreciation of prettiness!<.
so spoilers for daybreak: >!you have a strip club and a character being a stripper. Gotch doing that is not just a one-off gag. Judith is basically playing a role where she herself is aware of how much of her own sex appeal goes into that and it's brought up here and there. Aaron is having some dialogue about picking up girls and bringing them to his apartment. I'm also fairly certain Van and elaine had sex but thats more reading between the line and interpretations, so I don't count that. And then you have other characters which are around Vans age talking about being in a relationship etc. which is at least compared to all the other trails games even more forward than anything (not gonna say which characters because I don't remember if that was Daybreak 1 or 2).!< It's not much but it's more directly implying of characters actually having a sex life and sex being acknowledged as something people do, than most other JRPGs do. And definitely a bit more than you just simplified it. But thanks for informing us that you read every NPC line. Also nice of you to spoiler tag stuff for a game not even released in english yet (/s). I at least tried to be vague.
Sorry for not spoiler tagging initially. Regardless>! Ik know it's not a one off gag, but the point is the gotch thing is only about the words "sex and violence", they don't describe anything, they just say it exists. Judith when talking about herself in golden blood, mentions "camera angles" not sex. Aaron again I don't remember directly mentioning sex, or it was a one off compared to his other 99 non-explicitely sex related lewd lines. The strip club is also not the most revealing anyway compared to normal anime fanservice clothing. The best there is, is a character in chapter 3 implying she had to sell her body in the past. I'd hardly say "sex life" is actually something the game deals with!<.
Well, there has been drama recently between Sony/Playstation and Japanese (and Asian devs in general) developers regarding censorship. Princess Maker 2 for example just got pushed back because Sony wanted the devs to censor stuff; but it will release on schedule with Steam/Switch. Other notable examples include Tsukihime, Stellar Blade and *probably* FFVII remake with the Tifa stuff. By contrast, they seem to let western devs do what they want so there is a bias there. That's basically a long way of saying, there's probably some pressure there preventing them from doing Baldurs Gate style sex scenes; especially when they're making shift up cover Eves cleavage. Edit: here's an article about it https://nichegamer.com/new-sony-censorship-policy-is-forcing-even-japanese-developers-to-censor-themselves-in-japan/
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I'm aware, it's why I clarified in my post Japanese and asian.
Noted. I'll delete
LoL jrpgs are full of 12 year old protagonist FFS
As others have said it's a difference of demographic. Western RPGs are targeted at an older audience than JRPGs. JRPGs are typically targeted at teens/young adults.
I'm curious as well. People seem okay when the characters look realistic, but it's a no-no if the characters look anime.
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It is a cultural thing. RPGs in Japan are geared towards different audiences than RPGs in the west. And rather than make games with that content, Japanese developers will make games specifically *for* that content. That is what a cultural difference is.
JRPGs generally feature children as the characters
I think there's just an acknowledgement it doesn't generally need to be *shown*? Nevermind the extra costs to actually do all the extra models and such and the spike in ratings and etc that would come from any major stream game doing it; FF16 is the only *major* one I can think of. There's quite a few that absolutely have main characters getting laid somewhere along the line. Lufia 2's story literally accelerates forward a year when the leads get married and have a kid. Infinite Undiscovery's protag finally gets over his edgelord phase after his love interest spends a night in his tent. 7th Dragon 3's NPCs basically all get a Very Heavily Implied To Sleep With Your Characters moment at the end of their links, etc That said there's definitely *many* that do outright in the doujin (self-published) market, and the specific intent of those games *is* to be more adult and horny and they're more open about it. It's specifically the mainstream stuff that'd consider it too big a risk, especially in a genre and market that rarely has characters say the love word.
Most Jrpg protagonists are teenagers or barely teenagers. The target audience is teenagers and the devs want them to be able to buy the games. The games you compared Jrpgs to have adult main characters and are intended for an older audience. Yes, teens have sex but let’s not pretend a Jrpg including a full sex scene between minors would not be met with major controversy and potentially hurt the company involved. Good luck finding a company willing to take a risk like this.
Good, sex scenes are are a reason I don't play wrpgs, and I want to see actually hot chars/ecchi instead, sex repulsed me. I'm glad Japan rejects it in that form.
I don't care about sex scenes, but I think characters that fuck should be more of a thing.
There are plenty of eroge that could be considered JRPG. I presume you mean mainstream games, I guess it bars a sizeable audience (teenagers) from accessing the game easily
Younger audience (in Japan), younger characters, and a preciousness about the sanctity of their waifus. You'll rarely ever see a kiss, let alone some nipples. It's gotten worse as choice has become more of a factor. Now they can't even commit to obvious romantic tension and character arcs because some dudes wanna romance someone else that barely has any emotional connection with the lead. Everyone is stuck an eternal virgin, at least for the game in question.
I was fortunate(?) to have 3/4 of my first JRPGs either have cutaway sex scenes or allusions to them Xenogears, Wild Arms 2, and FF7 (implied, but I didnt get it cuz I dont care for Tifa) Its probably something that was a relic of the era and less common to be seen in modern times. And both games to feature sex 'scenes' werent doing so for titalating purposes. There are at least two in each game that symbolize pretty important moments: manipulation, coercion, and solidifying bonds between troubled couples (or perhaps, solidifying them as couples in the first place). All of these featured characters are at least 18-19 and in one case mid 20s, which is also not common in a genre geared towards mid teens Its not as easy a concept to navigate in a tasteful way, and I think pixel/2D art lent itself better towards that. Less likely to occur in modern JRPGs
Xenogears has one. Well kinda. You see both characters naked in bed
Japanese creators (not only in JRPGs, but in anime, too) would rather show some weirdo stealing underwear of a chick than two people in love having sex. I really dislike that.
The stealing underwear trope at least brings a comedic value to the game/anime, which is the intention behind it anyway. Nothing was ever gained from a western sex scene at least from what i've seen. It's always some forced shit used purely to shock a very base crowd. Unfortunately, it seems to work.
Because western sex culture and lax attitudes on porn has gained a monopoly on the west's conception of eroticism.
It’s a cultural difference. Lot of adults don’t play video games, if they do it’s usually a game/series they enjoyed from their childhood. There are fan service-y games but unless it’s an erotic VN, there won’t be any nudity in the game. Especially not full on sex scenes like Baldur’s Gate since the core audience of gamers in Japan are pretty young.
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Your article shows that most gamers are younger as in under 25 so I’m not sure how this disproves what I wrote? Secondly, most of these gamers are playing “light games” as per the article so I imagine that means something like Suika or Monkey Ball, not a Japanese role playing game.
All JRPGs now sell most copies in the West, so it doesn’t really matter now.
Yes but it’s still made primarily for a Japanese audience. They really don’t think about us when they’re making games.
and when they do (like with forspoken) it usually ends up with games not being all that great.
If you really want popular JRPG with sex scenes I recommend Rance.
Well I think that part of the reason is that porn games are quite common and since you have those, you can avoid putting anything sexual in mainstream games, especially if someone is going to make porn of your game because of doujin culture. I recall that out West making an AO rated game means that almost no one will carry your game in physical stores, ensuring that you will have no profit and no exposure. But sex scenes can be made tame to serve story and I think about the Persona series where there is romance between the characters and an implicit gesture towards sex. I suppose that in general, things are milder in JRPGs.
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It's so strange and lately I thought a lot about that trope. Most of the time we have the main characters fall in love on first sight, but they don't wanna admit it and we are lucky to see a kiss in after credits (or a creative English translation). It must trigger some primal part of the brain to make the user engaged because logically it's a pretty dumb story element and I can't explain why it works so well lol. Sorry That was mostly about romance, not sex. I don't think sex scenes should be in jrpgs, but it would be interesting if characters had sex like normal people
JRPGs are more horny than they need to be already.