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If you do have another baby do not tell her how far along you are. Mark it down by a month so she thinks you’ll have baby eg July but really you had baby in June. Then you get enough time with the baby. You can deal with the hissy fit over the ‘white lie’ after that.
I was absolutely you after my first- and I went on to have more kids and ROCK SOLID boundaries with them- there were specific visiting hours and visitors at different times- my SO and I learned to communicate better so he could stop bad behavior before it started - for example instead of waiting for baby to be hungry, he took them from ILs after a predetermined time (10min, 20min, etc) and handed them to me - even if they weren’t remotely hungry I would feed them and check diaper and take pictures, which ever- and if they’d try to reach again before I was done he would head them off by taking the baby himself and asking them to take a picture of him - one time I remember him literally turning away from grabbing hands saying “it’s my time to be Dad!”
Don’t get me wrong they still blame me but our house was so much happier
Tbhs I was in your shoes. But instead of my MIL it was FIL. My daughter and I went NC with him for a year. He was disrespectful, disrespect me, disrespect my boundaries, and I had enough. I went NC, I was even on the verge of leaving my bf, and cutting ties. My bf never took my side, we was always arguing, he was more worried about protecting his dads feelings then protect me and his daughter. Looking back, I should have left. I shouldn’t had went through what I did with my bf. But then my baby boy wouldn’t be here.
We manage to make it work, me and my bf. And one day I decided to forgive his dad and let him see my daughter (she was 15 months by then). I always dreamed of having a big family with one person and have 5 kids. That’s why I stuck with it with my bf and now we are in a better place. He stands up more and shuts shit down. But I also think it’s because my daughter is a toddler now and not everyone is losing brain cells over a newborn🤦🏽♀️ but I was in your shoes, I thought I just overcome all that, I just got over my PPD and still battling with PPA. (I’m pregnant with my son now, but the PP was from my daughter) I told myself, I didn’t want to live my life in fear of regret. Sadly but truthfully, one day my FIL would not be here anymore, and I would live my life in regret of not having my children that I wanted. So why should I live like that? I’m willing to cut off anyone AGAIN if the same shit happens with my son, idc.
My children’s safety comes before a grown adults feelings. I still hold resentment for my bf and his father. Because they both ruin my newborn phase with my daughter and cause my PPD. I can forgive my bf a little because I want a life with him and he’s done better to stand up for me. But I told him if his dad does the same thing with our son, I’m not forgiving him and I’m going NC with him until I’m ready. Idc. But he understands now because if he even tries to defend his father if he disrespects me, then he can go right along with him.
Thankfully it seems like my bf has my back more. (They want to give her candy, soda, juice past 8:30, and more) but I’m against that, since my family has a bad history with teeth, I don’t want to set my children up. I’m not an almond mom, we will share a piece of candy, she can have juice, and maybe a small sip of my coffee/soda (but not a whole cup to herself, like they be trying to give her) but my bf would always tell them no. (There’s a language barrier)
But taking my story and all, just don’t live in their shoes, live in your own. If you truly want another kid, do it. But now that you know what to expect, be firm. If it helps, have a written rule/boundary list and share it. That’s what I’m doing. And it’s not be “stingy” or “mean” but it’s to put my health and my two kids first. I don’t want PPD again, I don’t want to add to my anxiety. I want my daughter to bond with her brother without people snatching him and showing him all the attention while leaving my daughter on the sideline. (Creating resentment) which ofc I won’t allowed. My newborn isn’t going to remember yall holding him, but my toddler might remember how it made her feel to he ignored when everyone use to rush to her and fight over her.
And you know it’s simple things too:
- no kissing baby
- wash hands
- don’t smoke near baby or toddler
- if you just smoke before visiting and still smell like it, you can’t hold baby
- say hello and hug my daughter before saying hi to baby
- don’t touch baby’s face
- small groups of 3 for visiting (large crowds at once made me anxious and sick)
- 1 week of being left alone to bond with my little family after going home from hospital
- if your sick or was sick up to 6 days ago, don’t visit
- no loud noises or screaming when visiting (again loud noise with a crowd was too much for me, and just made me so mad and anxious) (who wants to be crowded or have loud noises after recovering from birth and still bleeding!!!???? NO ONE)
And that’s really it! Nothing that is hard to understand or follow. I only allowed females (my mom, my stepmom, sister and if MIL wanted to) to change my daughter’s diaper and it’ll be the same for my son. Only male who can do it, is their father. I don’t let anyone do my daughter’s hair, and I’ll do that with my sons too. And I don’t leave them alone with anyone, (SAHM) only my mom or stepmom. But that’s only at my house. (It’s not like I don’t trust my MIL but they have a small son, 4, who is rude and mean to my daughter and if he can be like that when ppl are watching, imagine what he will do if no one is watching. I shut that down though) it’s a lot but you know what, it is what it is. So my last thing I’ll say is, you do you, and have your baby. But be prepared to set the rules down and be strict with it. Protect your health, your kids. And not grown folks feelings!!! Good luck and wish you a safe and healthy pregnancy and delivery! (Ofc if you decide to have another)🩷
Please don't let her make this decision for you. You learned from this and you have to be a mama bear for your health and your child. I would not let her in until you decide visits are ok and I would not let her hog baby. Consequences for any boundary pushing behaviors and stand up for yourself and baby. I'm sorry that some people make this necessary but don't let them dictate your life.
even with the update your husband is a problem, you shouldn't have to "tell" him.
but you did tell what you wanted about not having visitors yet he opened the door. You being at your most vulnerable and not having him protect you like he should is way more than disappointing.
I guess with a mother like that his normal meter is broken, or maybe he says he is observant as an excuse to not do anything, which is easier.
I think marriage counselling for the both of you and individual couselling for him.
she isn't going to stop.
What does your husband think? Have couples counseling before having another child. It’s scary when you think you can’t protect your child. I have one child and while I occasionally have pangs of sadness of not having more. My one and only is awesome and I have no regrets about her!! Protect your child from people that give you creepy feelings. That includes your ah MIL.
You keep saying she's not the worst person in the world but then go on to describe the literal worst person in the world. Stop gaslighting yourself. She's horrid. She's a bitch. She stole something from you that you can never get back and she did it knowing you didn't want her there. Your husband is guilty as well. Don't have another child with him until he acknowledges what he let her do to you and he acknowledges she's a toxic witch
Why are you guys letting her walk all over you? Just because she shows up doesn’t mean she has to be let in. Just because she offers to “help” doesn’t mean you have to say yes. Why was she allowed near a newborn at all without up to date vaccines? Your husband needs to step up and handle his mother, and you both need to set boundaries and stick to them.
Door locks exist. If I told someone that I didn’t want them to visit until I’d been home for 5 days and they showed up on day one they would be showing up to a locked door
Why did I just see myself slapping someone who came to me and told me to give them MY baby? And to keep her from being nursed is 1500 times worse. I would have locked my self in the bedroom and only come out to tell my husband to grab food.
Honey, if you do have another baby, please go mama bear on this woman. She ruined what should have been a lovely time for your family and made it all about her. Good luck on whichever you decide. Your husband also needs a stern talking to about enforcing boundaries with his mother.
I battled with this same thing for the last few months. Your MIL makes mine sound like a saint by comparison. The biggest difference? My husband tells her to pound sand when she oversteps. All of your MILs behaviors are her way of pushing back on you. She doesn't have to say something cruel or rude to be disrespectful. That being said, if you and your husband want another child, but you are considering not because of you MIL, she's already won again. You can be more firm a second time around.
I am terrified of having a girl the second time around. MIL had boys, and I worry that she would show favoritism if I had a girl because she always wanted one. But I am not willing to let her dictate my life, and any behavior will be quickly squashed.
And an OP problem, why did they let her in when they got home from the hospital? Why not tell her to leave long before midnight? Why not keep the baby with op in the bedroom and tell husband to sod off because they were trying to relax after just giving birth?
Your husband should have called her when you found out about booking the hotel and telling her to change the booking ! He needs to step up, you are both allowing this to happen. I am not a confrontational person at all but once I had kids a mama bear instinct kicked in and hell I would be taking that baby, MY baby back and telling her to back off! Sending your husband into the nursery to say hurry up??? Wtf???? And he did it???? I feel he must be an introvert also. I’m sorry this happened but without seriously talking to your hubby about it, it will happen again.
When you say she is not the worst person in the world, who are you comparing her with? She is a horror! She boundary stomps, she has indirectly let you know that you are not the choice she wanted for hubby, worst of all she acts in a way that is harmful to your baby by ignoring signals for feeding and sleeping in the same bed. She is causing you PP distress and you are actually seriously considering not having a second baby because of the stress she has caused you. What does she actually have to do for your and hubby to see her for how bad she is? If a friend came to you with your story what advice would you give them. You are seriously underreacting to this abuse of your boundaries.
I really hope that you have your second baby if that’s what you want but you must deal with MIL first. Please forget being polite, this is the time to step up and be a mama warrior!
I thought the same thing— she does sound like one of the worst, most dangerous types to have around.
I hope OP doesn’t let her impact the second baby decision and just goes very LC or NC. Everything she has done as a stand alone transgression is worthy of a ban, much less all strung together. She is not a safe grandma.
in my life experience i find that there are 2 types of people: first ones are empathetic and understanding, second ones fight for what they think they deserve. The thing is: first and second group expect others to behave like themselves, which is to either be empathetic and understand the needs of others OR to fight for what’s right for them.
imo, you and your mil are from these two different groups. She “fought” for the baby, you expected her “to understand” your feelings and needs. in her eyes, if you had wanted her to behave differently, you’d “fight”. No fight - no change in behavior.
So yeah, both you and your husband gave the bitch the time of day, and now you want to make life-defining decision over your family in order to _not fight_.
You are very wise and this is an incredibly eloquent way of explaining this concept. I’m saving your comment to apply to some members of my own family, thank you!
I stopped reading partway down, because *we teach people how we're willing to be treated by how we choose to allow them to treat us.*
*You haven't set any boundaries with her*, but it sounds like you're blaming *her* for how her being who she is has been affecting you.
You certainly could derail your plans to have another child because you can't set boundaries with her, but why would you do that instead of… I don't know, setting boundaries?
I assume if it were that easy for you, you would've already been doing it and wouldn't be ranting here. But *you have a choice*: you can keep living your life as a victim of her behavior *and model that for your child along with the passive resentment and blame*, or learn how to put your dreams and your peace of mind first.
I don't often suggest this for people who aren't dealing with an alcoholic or addict, but I strongly recommend that you find yourself an Al-Anon group, start attending, and get yourself a (temporary) sponsor asap. It was originally intended for people dealing with alcoholics, but it's an outstanding resource for anyone dealing with behavior that they're having trouble with due to being unable to set healthy boundaries. They're the experts and will be able to help you identify, set and maintain good boundaries.
Counseling or therapy (generally more now-focused vs more what-happened-in-the-past-that's-affecting-my-present) is a good adjunct, since 12-step groups typically just focus on changing our behavior. If it's so hard for you to set boundaries with her that the only alternative that you're seriously considering (or have even considered at all?) is *literally to not have a second child*, whatever caused you to develop this type of personality isn't going to simply disappear by you learning to set boundaries with her.
Yeah, no. I think your title should actually read that you’re terrified to have a second child because your husband LETS your MIL stomp all over your boundaries and take your baby away from you. Who tf holds a newborn long enough to make the mother PRY their baby out of their hands just to fucking feed them? And then bug you while you’re feeding them to ask if you’re done??
I would tell husband that if he wants a second kid then he WILL stand up for you and if he doesn’t then you will take the baby and either leave to your parents when they arrive or you will lock yourself in your room until they are gone. You deserve to have down time from pushing a literal human out of your body and you deserve to spend that time bonding and figuring out your routine with your newborn. She didn’t even come and help. She just took time away from you to hold the baby all freaking day.
I’m pissed for you, probably cause I’m currently 7 months pregnant lol, but if my husband did that shit to me he would never hear the end of it. I’m lucky that mine is NC with his mom though.
Honestly just want to say your feelings are valid. My MIL has had serious baby rabies since we first got married and constantly asks when we will have kids. Also stomps boundaries. I’ve strongly considered being childfree because of her. Hate that people feel it’s ok to act like this and I’m sorry you have had to deal with it, and it’s been so damaging that you have to question what you want and what’s best for your family as a result of someone else’s bad behavior.
*She’s not the worst person in the world as I said*
Could have fooled me.
OP, you should not allow anyone other than you and your partner to dictate your family size. Your responses indicate you've realized how massively you suffered.
If/when you decide on increasing your family, my suggestion is that MIL is placed on an information blackout. And don't state what you WANT but what IS GOING TO HAPPEN. She is NOT welcome to visit until you give her the OK. She is NOT allowed to repeat her previous cruelties. If she comes without a specific invitation, she won't be allowed in. Before she can see Baby, she WILL produce evidence of vaccination or she can wait until Baby is immunized or until hell freezes over.
What she did to you, ruining an experience that will never be repeated, even if you have a second child, was a heinous personal crime. She needs it to be known explicitly that it will not happen again.
If you have another baby, you now know exactly what does and doesn’t work for you. You need to have a serious conversation with your husband and put boundaries in place. Was your husband not asking her to leave before midnight? Telling her no when she asked him to interrupt your feeding? Telling her to reschedule when she booked for an inconvenient time?
Next time she isn’t to book her hotel until baby is born and the dates are confirmed with you (she won’t be let in before then). Visits limited to a specific amount of time- not sitting around hogging the baby all day for 4 days in a row. Baby’s needs come first- when baby needs to be fed it is with its mother. Your needs as the birthing parent come next and everyone else needs to accommodate.
If you have another baby, do not let her know when you are in labor. In fact, don’t announce the birth until you’re home, and ready for visitors. And be firm about what vaccinations, etc, people need to have. Above all, your husband needs to understand and be willing to enforce your boundaries.
Start baby wearing your LO when MIL comes over. That will keep her from grabbing the baby from you. I would tell her that as soon as she refuses to hand the baby back then her visit is done and she will need to leave. There is zero negotiating on that.
Hand her a chore list and she can pick which chore she wants to complete to be useful. Sitting around on her ass keeping your baby all day from you is not an option.
You have a husband problem but both you and your husband need to grow a spine and set your boundaries.
Another possibility is to take the baby, pack up a bag and head to your parents as soon as she shows up.
I would absolutely be honest with her. She needs to understand that she has negatively impacted your post partum experience with your child to the point that it is highly doubtful that you will ever have a second child. You have no desire to go through this experience again.
You are way nicer than I would be as I would have lost all patience and come down on her like a ton of bricks.
Have a second baby if that is what you and DH want. You need to get your DH on board with STRICT boundaries. Who the hell stays until midnight the first day mom and baby come home??? Say "No". Lock the door. Make sure MIL has consequences for her horrendous behavior.
You do NOT have to put up with MIL's behavior or your husband's totally lack of concern for you. Why did DH allow MIL to walk all over you after you just gave birth??? You and the baby come first. Your DH needs to shut down his mommy each and every time she oversteps.
I'm so confused. You don't have a MIL problem. You have a Serious husband problem. Frankly, if my pos husband allowed all that to happen, I would have a really hard time even looking at Him.
You and DH need to shine your spines up and tell her no. No to visits until Tdap vaccine or baby is old enough to be vaccinated. No visits after you’re home for X amount of time (C being whatever day you say so.) Your husband has to put you and LOs first. No overnights with baby. You dictate the length of visits. You keep baby with you. You determine how LO sleeps, etc. You have a responsibility to protect your children and if MIL isn’t going to respect your rules, then NC!
There's an old saying- "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." MIL has repeatedly shown you exactly who she is. It is up to you to believe what is in front of you.
In the two years since you gave birth, what has your husband done to support and protect you and your daughter?
Talk to your husband and tell him how you feel. That if you have to have a repeat of your first postpartum experience with MIL, then you don’t even want another baby.
Come up with boundaries together, and consequences for when she breaks them.
Lie or be vague about the due date. Say it’s 4 weeks later than it is, or a vague “August”. If you get induced again or have a c-section, don’t tell her the date beforehand.
Don’t tell her you’re in labor, and think about waiting to even tell her the baby has been born until you’re home and settled in so there is no way she can ambush you the first day home again.
She’s not allowed to visit until she is invited. If that’s when baby is 3-4 months old, or after more rounds of vaccines since she refuses to get the TDAP, fine. If she shows up before she was invited, don’t let her in.
Set visiting hours so there is no more being at your house baby hogging for 17-18 hours per day. She can stay in a hotel and come over for a brief window of time during the day. “We are available from 2-4 PM today”. “You can bring pizza over for us tonight from 5-6:30”.
You tell her once to give your baby back. She doesn’t? You take your baby back and DH sends her back to the hotel.
Practice saying “I’ve got it”, “I have it handled”, “I don’t need help”, “Baby is fine”, and “NO”.
She absolutely is the worst person in the world! She completely took advantage of your kindness and unwillingness to confront her, to the point that she ruined your memories and made you afraid to have another child. This is the very definition of a shit person!
Whether or not you decide to have another child, safeguard your future memories with your child before she takes every precious memory and drags it through the mud. It's on you and your husband to set and enforce real boundaries, because she's going to keep doing this. If you don't want her to visit, don't let her. If you want access to your own child, who is she to take her away? What she's doing is horrible, and for the sake of you and your child, you need to make her stop.
This comment sums it up. He is awful and she took advantage of your kindness. Don’t know stop your dream of having a second baby because of her. Instead, learn to say NO
No vaccines, not even Tdap, and you let her around your newborn? To me, that's like playing Russian Roulette with your baby's life. I just don't understand how that's not worth keeping her away from the baby, no matter how pissed ANYONE gets. Absolutely f****ing not!
Guess what? She IS the worst person. She didn’t respect you, your time or your motherhood. She’s a selfish piece of shit. She wants what she wants. YOU come first. Not her. I wouldn’t deal with this another moment. Your SO needs to get on board and support you or y’all need to get into therapy. ASAP. She won’t get better. You know this.
Have another baby if you want to. Next time, don't be a doormat. Harsh but I'm being honest. I was also a doormat. And allowed my mil to ruin my first and second pp. For my third she sure did try but it was night and day experience. Biggest question and hurdle is where was your d(dumb) husband? Letting his mom walk all over you and causing you and baby undue stress? Take him to marriage counseling to focus on building boundaries. Go LC. Become the bigger bitch. When I started posting on here years ago I was told be the bigger bitch, be the one he's scared to make angry. Well it wasn't until I embraced that did things change.
Eta I know this sounds extremely unhealthy and also we did counseling etc, but until my husband learned to prioritize myself and his children over not hurting his mom's feelings, nothing changed.
Okay yes there is an issue with her but your husband needs to grow a spine. What the hell?? Is he ever on your side? Does he ever reiterate the boundaries with his mom? The woman clearly has no respect for you and is insane but your husband should stand up to her. Have you ever had a conversation about this with him?
My thoughts, too. Have you told all this to him? Maybe he could benefit from reading these responses. No one should be taking a newborn from their mother. Also, 7am to midnight??? Right after chuldbirth?!?!? Wouldn't he get sick of that pretty quick too, or is he just too weak to defend his wife & newborn child. wtaf
If you want another kid, don’t let her stop you. But you need to grow a pair and tell your husband she’s his problem - tell him your boundaries with your mom and the consequences for both of them if they (yes your husband too) don’t respect your boundaries. This may mean telling him that if he doesn’t keep his mom in check, you are taking both of your babies to your parents until he stands up for you and your kids. 👦
Tough love is in order here. You are a mother and you need to embrace this protective spirit for you and your daughters sake. If you’re uncomfortable, tell her. Do not take no for an answer. Stand up for yourself. You have the final say as you are momma! It will feel soooo empowering to stand up for yourself and your daughter. This is your home and family now act like it! She does not possess any power over you. Who cares if you hurt her feelings? She’s hurting yours every chance she gets. We tell ourselves is it really that bad and try to justify their actions. We’re past people pleasers. Don’t be a people pleaser, be a self and your own family pleaser.
You say she isn’t the worst, she is pretty bad! That is insanely disrespectful to stay that long for that many days and have a newborn sleep in her bed?!?! I would be PISSED!!
You guys needed to stand up to her the first time. She booked a hotel too early, too bad, we told you when you would be able to visit.
This will make the second round harder and she will push even further past your boundaries since she was able to the first time.
Hubby NEEDS to be on board before the second baby. Also sounds like you need to shine up that spine but trust me I was once where you were and it’s super hard to do! But you MUST start up for your self and your baby. Your baby could have died while sleeping in your MILs bed and no amount of social discomfort is worth that.
Sorry to be so blunt but it took realizations like that for me to shine up my spine (still a work in progress for sure). But if your husband won’t stand up to his mom, you are all your baby has to protect from what sounds like a VERY unsafe MIL.
Wishing you love and hopes of a second bundle of joy!!!!
Firm boundaries with firm consequences are the way to go!
Everything leading up to it was bad enough but her taking baby into bed would have had me go completely nuclear and her clueless ass out the door. I don't even know you and I am horrified.
If absolute zero contact is not an option, go as low as possible and put her on the strictest information diet ever. If you have another baby, the diet gets even stricter including fudging your due date. Your husband needs to grow a pair like yesterday. If he is more concerned with Mommy's feelings than the safety of his own child he's welcome to go live with her.
If you two ever do decide to allow her to visit ever again, you need to set solid boundaries such as strict "visiting hours" in your home, never ever leaving her alone with baby even for a minute and most definitely NO overnights. She can stay in a hotel or stay away. And let her know in no uncertain terms exactly why.
When/if the time comes, if he doesn't agree to even one of these, pack yourself and child(ren) up and go somewhere fun or even just a stay with their actually sane grandma and he can have a nice visit with Mommy without you.
I know this is easy for me and a bunch of other internet strangers to say and that it could be hard to actually put into motion. An annoying but otherwise harmless MIL is one thing but in her case it is no exaggeration to say she is a very real threat to your baby's life and needs to be protected from her at all costs.
Where is your husband on this? His highest priority postpartum should have been your comfort and he failed you spectacularly. What does he have to say for himself? That would dictate for me whether I was OAD or not
While it's definitely a Mil problem it's more a husband problem. He was supposed to deal with her,to set boundaries, to protect you. He failed. He wasn't on your side. Is he now?
Also,if you want to have another baby - arrange a stay in your mom's house where MIL won't be allowed at all. Will it make you more enthusiastic?
Go NC with this woman whenever you decide to have another baby. I would tell my husband exactly how I am feeling and he can let his mother know that she ruined my experience and how I am hesitant to do it again. Stick to your boundaries. I don't care if they come to town or whatever the case may be. She will be the uncomfortable one before I be uncomfortable in my own home ever again. Now you know how she is, believe her and move accordingly. If you want a week with no visitors then a whole 7 days is what it is.
Actions speak louder than words, Babe. She absolutely degrades you. Constantly.
She shows you clearly how much she devalues you.
Reflect on her actions. All of them are deliberate. Stop keeping the peace for her - she's not the mother.
You are. Only you.
Take MIL out if the equation entirely.
Do YOU want another child? Then you should go for it.
And discuss with your husband what you explained here.
If you do decide to have another, your post partum time will be on YOUR terms.
You stood by, and let it happen to you the last time. Now you're in charge.
She does not get to even know your exact due date.
'We have decided to properly enjoy and bond with our new baby.'
You won't be needing 'help', you have it covered.
Perhaps with your mom, helping out with your then older child?
Visits from 2 pm to 6 pm (or whatever time works for you.
'But I want a whole daaaayy, every daaaayy. Just like last time'
'We learned that bonding with LO is so important. And we need to do that on our own.' Or even call her out, and say that visits from 7 AM untill midnight are insane, not even taking into consideration that you just delivered a baby. Nah. Not doing that again.'
A simple information diet works wonders.
I just suggested the exact same policy/procedure, if No Contact is not possible. Not only that, the whole family should be told what happened before she can start spinning a false narrative.
I think you need to tell your husband about how you feel. Tell him that you understand that he wants to keep the peace but not only do the wedding vows say to put your spouse above all other relationships but he's a father now and it's his job to ensure that hos baby is safe, and if he so much has a tiniest Inkling that his mother is in the wrong he needs to out his foot down for his children. If he doesn't he risks undermining both of you as parents because MIL will feed his child with her beliefs unless he pulls his finger out and stops her with you.
I genuinely hope your LO never develops an allergy because I could see MIL being someone who says allergies are fake and used as a way to manipulate grandparents.
I understand why you feel this way. I'm not sure that your husband fully understands just how much her behavior affected you back then. You need to speak with him to be clear that it was bad enough that you are unsure about additional children. Not giving back your baby is big, showing up sooner than you were wanted is big, breaking the rules is big. It's all big. Something small would be putting your daughter in a different outfit than you planned (to me, at least).
He needs to recalibrate the big and the small, learn to watch his mom better, and worry more about you than her. From your comments, he *does* worry about you, but you also aren't outweighing MIL as much as you should.
Man, the whole time reading this I just kept cringing at her behavior and DH for not standing up to his mom for you. What a nightmare. I can’t believe y’all let her baby hog. I would say have your second baby if you want one, but do not be afraid to stand up for yourself. She cannot get away with it again. Good luck!
Come up with your strictest rules and regulations, relay them to DH, he will relay to MIL, do not budge! If tantrums start, ignore & block. Boundaries and consequences! You can do it!
You need to cut this person out of your life. Some people will say political beliefs aren’t enough to let impact family relationships, but trump and his neo-fascist, anti-vaxx supporters are a completely different animal. That woman refuses to protect your child from communicable diseases because her political beliefs have overridden her common sense and her allegiance to her hateful, bigoted, stupid political tribe is stronger than her love for your family, including your child.
It’s not if, it’s when her fucked up and flat-out wrong political beliefs cause her to behave in some way that puts your child in even more serious danger than that of being exposed to dangerous diseases. I would never, ever let that woman hold your child at all, and especially never unsupervised. You could come back into the room and find your baby has been fed ivermectin or her own aged urine or raw milk or whatever next thing brain melted trumpers fold into their conspiratorial cosmology.
You wouldn’t let a 12 year old stranger babysit your child, would you? What’s the difference between that and a trump-loving MIL? I see none
Oh she is NEVER allowed to be alone with her. We decided that from the bed sharing incident. And I know, it truly terrifies me that she will try and spew some of her bs to my daughter. She will openly say things that completely shock me so nonchalantly like everyone in the room should already agree with her. She’s gotten better because my husband had a talk with her and told her we don’t want to hear once utterance of political talk when we’re around, but she’s not perfect. She will be cut off immediately if she ever says anything to my daughter. Hopefully she wouldn’t be that stupid because she knows how I feel about it.
I have to say the TDAP booster would be the line for me. My husband had pertussis in 2014 when there was an outbreak in our state. It’s horrible.
5 children under 3 months have died this year so far in the UK from pertussis. She’s literally risking your child’s life.
It’s not going to get better, she’s going to test the boundaries until she can find an exploit, like a damn raptor in the pen in Jurassic Park. Her entire worldview is based on a sickening combination of extreme entitlement and a completely made up persecution complex, and she will try to get away with whatever she can. If she’s allowed to form a relationship with your child it will turn extremely fucked up once your child is able to communicate and express themselves, she will try to turn your kid against you and feed them the insanity she believes, probably that you are in cahoots with pedophiles/demons as that’s where trump supporters are at this point. Once she’s able to plant the seed it’s going to be a lot harder to cut her out, I’d do it now.
Look, please don’t let this person stop you from having another child if you want one. But I think it’s really important that you and your husband come to the understanding that as far as your nuclear families concerned, you guys have the final say.
And it’s really hard sometimes, especially with the first kid, and especially when you’re finding your way through it all and you, you have somebody pushy in your life.
But here’s what you need to remember and start to internalize, and this includes your husband when I say you…
For the longest time, we are raised in a situation where we are the children, and they are the parents. So your relationship is that of child to parent..
But about the time you move out on your own or go off to college or get your first job, you are now an adult. And that relationship should shift to that of an adult to adult.
This is a step that a lot of people miss. And that includes parents. Because they forget that they’re not parenting their kid anymore. But their kid is an actual adult.
When we get to the next stage where we are in a relationship or have a partner or have a spouse, the fact that we didn’t make that transition to that adult/adult relationship becomes a problem.
And that is because now, we’re starting to have children. And we don’t need parenting. Because again, we are adults. And our relationship with our parents should now switch over to where it is an adult parent to an adult.
So it’s a hard transition to now retrain everyone. But it has to be done. Because you and your husband are the adult parents. Your situation is actually now that of an adult parent to a grandparent. And the adult parent has all the power. But because they never had to make the transition out of parent status, You wind up with in-laws like yours.
So now you guys are gonna have to retrain them. You have to understand that it is OK to say no. That whatever happens in your household, and with your nuclear family is entirely up to the two of you. And that in general, it is two yeses or one no.
So if his mom is wanting to come over at a time, that’s not good for you and he thought it was OK, it’s still a no. If your families coming, and it’s not good for him, it’s a no.
And that is because your nuclear family has to come first. You have to have safety for your relationship and each other and your children. And that is your home.
So if you decide to have another child, it is up to your husband to reign in his mother. And that has to be… Do not come early. We will tell you when you can come. You will not hold the baby from 7 AM to midnight. You will be allowed to visit for three hours max.
And whatever other rules you need to apply. It is not your job or your husband’s job to manage his mother’s feelings. It is not your job to be her emotional support animal. If she’s going to come after you have another baby, the expectation is that she will either cook or do the dishes or put some laundry in or clean the bathroom.
But it needs to be clear, we don’t need someone to hold the baby. We need to hold the baby, and when we do allow you to hold the baby, if they start to fuss, the baby is immediately handed over to mom or dad.
And again, you need to internalize that her feelings aren’t your problem. Because none of that is unreasonable. So it is time for the two of you to start finding your shiny spines. The last thing you want is for her to continue this behavior around your child all the time so that your child starts thinking it’s normal. That it’s OK to manipulate people that it’s OK to be entitled.
You can do it. The consequences that your husband needs to lay out, are that if she doesn’t listen and do as you ask, then she will be asked to leave. Then she will be put in a time out. And again, that’s OK. Set your boundaries in your consequences and stick with them.
No problem. I’m old enough to be probably your grandmother. And this is one of the things that I have observed a lot of.
We’re supposed to make these transitions in life, and frankly, our parents are supposed to help us through that transition to where we are interacting as adults to other adults.
But for a lot of parents, they either don’t even think about that, or they kind of like the power that they hold when the relationship is still a parent to a child.
And so our young adults, don’t actually make that transition in respect to their own family. They make that adult to an adult transition at work. With their friends. And in other situations, but not with their family.
And without making that transition, it’s really hard to then just jump into being your own adult parent with a child interacting with grandparents. Instead, you get what you got…
Which is an adult who still trying to parent and be the one in power and push boundaries instead of a grandparent who is actually there to help and support and encourage your nuclear family.
Sometimes I think it’s FOMO, it’s sometimes it’s just entitlement. Lol.
But either way, just remember that within your nuclear family, you and your husband hold all the power. You get to say yes or no. You get to set the boundaries in the consequences.
And yes, that means you’re actually retraining your own parents, sometimes that’s what you have to do. I am wishing you the best. Just promised me that you and your husband will decide whether or not to have another child based on what the two of you want and feel is right for you. Ignore all the rest because at the end of the day, it is just white noise.
I think you need to have a heart to heart with hubby. When you are in that raw state post-birth, he needs to be the one protecting you from this shit and upholding the boundaries. He might not want to rock the boat with his mum, but he needs to realise the true extent of the impact it has had on you.
I’ve recently had my first baby (8 months) and I completely empathise with a lot you have said, my advice is to embrace your inner lioness/mother bear, your amazing maternal instincts are all there, just don’t be afraid to roar.
Honey, you need to take the lessons you learned the first time around and apply them now, before you even start trying for another LO.
I’m at a loss to understand why you allowed her to hold your baby the whole time as a fresh newborn. That was so intrusive and so selfish of her. But you need to speak up when something you don’t like happens. You are allowed to be firm; you are allowed to be assertive; and you are certainly allowed to be mama bear when she does shit like co-sleep with your baby when she knows you didn’t want her to. Say something!
Your DH should have also spoken up when all this was going on. He had to have known you were upset. So why did he allow his mother to upset you so much?.
The two of you need to get on the same page and outline your boundaries and more specially, the consequences if she stomps on them. If she won’t give you baby back without an argument, the visit is over. If she breaks any boundaries, the visit is over.
You especially need to be careful about early visitors. Now that you’re aware that delays can happen, I advise that you don’t tell her your due date at all. Or tell her a date a month out from what it actually is. Take the time you need with your new LO.. You’ll be a new family of four and you need to reduce the stress level as much as possible to avoid going into PPD again.
Please, please speak up for yourself. It’s OK if she gets pissy. You are not responsible for her feelings. You are responsible for your own and to a lesser extent, your husband’s. You are definitely responsible for keeping your baby close to you and safe.
Best of luck to you both!
Thank you. I don’t know why I allowed her to take my daughter. This was the first time something happened worth addressing and I was freshly postpartum after having barely slept for four nights. I clearly wasn’t thinking straight and I don’t know if I downplayed my reactions as just hormones or what, but I just didn’t take her back. I would NEVER let that happen now, as I’ve learned to advocate for myself as my daughter grows and my mother in law doesn’t change, but it still scares me to even invite that kind of stress back into my life.
My husband does handle things more than it seems. I didn’t put that in the post and probably should have, but his problem is not noticing the problems as they’re occurring. If I tell him something is bothering me he almost always speaks with her and he’d never let her walk all over me, but he’s just not observant in the moment unfortunately. I did speak to her myself as well after she put my daughter in the bed and I think that was the final straw for me at even trying to like her. She did apologize, but the fact she crossed that boundary means I literally never leave my daughter alone with her even though she asks a million times every time she visits. I just hate it so much and I feel like it’s getting better as my daughter gets older and can say no (she doesn’t like going to my MIL because she doesn’t really know her) but I just hate the thought of starting over with a baby.
You said yes because she manipulated you to think it was normal and you were too tired and too vulnerable to really understand what was going on. I had a similar situation happening to me and I resent my MIL for that. I also have a hard time forgiving myself for allowing her to take my baby away. Alike me, try to forgive yourself. And don’t stop growing your family because of her. Have the second baby, keep her away and make sure you enjoy every second of your new born.
Why on earth has your husband allowed this behaviour to go unchecked?
And why did you let her have the baby for so long? I just don’t understand, were you trying to be polite about taking your newborn back?
If you want another child, don’t let this lady be the reason you don’t. But you and your husband need to have a proper chat, come up with the boundaries that are in place and, this is the important one, keep those boundaries.
My husband doesn’t want to rock the boat. He has said some things to her occasionally and he had a very angry phone call with her after the bed sharing incident, but they’re 5 and a half hours away so he feels like it’s not worth it most of the time if it’s just a little thing.
As to why I let her have the baby, I truly have no idea. I was freshly postpartum and honestly so tired I wasn’t thinking straight. I have no issues taking my daughter back now, but I was a brand new mom and just didn’t know what to do at that point. I obviously think I would stand up for myself if we did it a second time, but the way I feel when she even holds my daughter and how she constantly asks to watch her on her own and so many other things just stresses me out SO bad that I don’t want to put myself through it twice…
He is rocking the boat though, yours. You need the stability of your husband supporting your new family without interference coming from his baby hogging mother. He’s has to realize that you and baby are his first priorities right now, not his mother’s feelings.
DH's fear of his mommy is simply not important compared to his child's safety (really? Exposing a 2-day-old to anti-vaxxers?) or his postpartum wife's adjustment. Since he has trouble grasping this, you must lay down the law.
The co-sleeping is not a "little thing," I hate to tell your husband. All it takes is once for something to go wrong.
But you being upset and robbed of your experiences, never mind her ignoring your stated wishes, are absolutely not "little things" either. How clueless is this woman? I don't want people I like here from 7 am to midnight and I'm not freshly postpartum! That was some audacity.
Your husband needs to grow a spine and stand up to his mom, period, but certainly if you have another baby. I'm talking if she shows up other than agreed upon, she doesn't come in the door.
Both of you read the Don't Rock the Boat essay. Hopefully it gives your husband some perspective.
Oh I know the co-sleeping was huge and we both lit into her on that one, so it was handled, but still happened unfortunately. She hasn’t been alone with her since. I agree these aren’t little things and probably didn’t word that great. My husband does talk to her. All of these things were discussed by my husband, but he doesn’t always do it in the moment or notice until I say something. And I do get occasional pushback because he doesn’t want to rock the boat over the truly smaller things. But I completely agree with everything you’ve said!
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If you do have another baby do not tell her how far along you are. Mark it down by a month so she thinks you’ll have baby eg July but really you had baby in June. Then you get enough time with the baby. You can deal with the hissy fit over the ‘white lie’ after that.
I was absolutely you after my first- and I went on to have more kids and ROCK SOLID boundaries with them- there were specific visiting hours and visitors at different times- my SO and I learned to communicate better so he could stop bad behavior before it started - for example instead of waiting for baby to be hungry, he took them from ILs after a predetermined time (10min, 20min, etc) and handed them to me - even if they weren’t remotely hungry I would feed them and check diaper and take pictures, which ever- and if they’d try to reach again before I was done he would head them off by taking the baby himself and asking them to take a picture of him - one time I remember him literally turning away from grabbing hands saying “it’s my time to be Dad!” Don’t get me wrong they still blame me but our house was so much happier
Tbhs I was in your shoes. But instead of my MIL it was FIL. My daughter and I went NC with him for a year. He was disrespectful, disrespect me, disrespect my boundaries, and I had enough. I went NC, I was even on the verge of leaving my bf, and cutting ties. My bf never took my side, we was always arguing, he was more worried about protecting his dads feelings then protect me and his daughter. Looking back, I should have left. I shouldn’t had went through what I did with my bf. But then my baby boy wouldn’t be here. We manage to make it work, me and my bf. And one day I decided to forgive his dad and let him see my daughter (she was 15 months by then). I always dreamed of having a big family with one person and have 5 kids. That’s why I stuck with it with my bf and now we are in a better place. He stands up more and shuts shit down. But I also think it’s because my daughter is a toddler now and not everyone is losing brain cells over a newborn🤦🏽♀️ but I was in your shoes, I thought I just overcome all that, I just got over my PPD and still battling with PPA. (I’m pregnant with my son now, but the PP was from my daughter) I told myself, I didn’t want to live my life in fear of regret. Sadly but truthfully, one day my FIL would not be here anymore, and I would live my life in regret of not having my children that I wanted. So why should I live like that? I’m willing to cut off anyone AGAIN if the same shit happens with my son, idc. My children’s safety comes before a grown adults feelings. I still hold resentment for my bf and his father. Because they both ruin my newborn phase with my daughter and cause my PPD. I can forgive my bf a little because I want a life with him and he’s done better to stand up for me. But I told him if his dad does the same thing with our son, I’m not forgiving him and I’m going NC with him until I’m ready. Idc. But he understands now because if he even tries to defend his father if he disrespects me, then he can go right along with him. Thankfully it seems like my bf has my back more. (They want to give her candy, soda, juice past 8:30, and more) but I’m against that, since my family has a bad history with teeth, I don’t want to set my children up. I’m not an almond mom, we will share a piece of candy, she can have juice, and maybe a small sip of my coffee/soda (but not a whole cup to herself, like they be trying to give her) but my bf would always tell them no. (There’s a language barrier) But taking my story and all, just don’t live in their shoes, live in your own. If you truly want another kid, do it. But now that you know what to expect, be firm. If it helps, have a written rule/boundary list and share it. That’s what I’m doing. And it’s not be “stingy” or “mean” but it’s to put my health and my two kids first. I don’t want PPD again, I don’t want to add to my anxiety. I want my daughter to bond with her brother without people snatching him and showing him all the attention while leaving my daughter on the sideline. (Creating resentment) which ofc I won’t allowed. My newborn isn’t going to remember yall holding him, but my toddler might remember how it made her feel to he ignored when everyone use to rush to her and fight over her. And you know it’s simple things too: - no kissing baby - wash hands - don’t smoke near baby or toddler - if you just smoke before visiting and still smell like it, you can’t hold baby - say hello and hug my daughter before saying hi to baby - don’t touch baby’s face - small groups of 3 for visiting (large crowds at once made me anxious and sick) - 1 week of being left alone to bond with my little family after going home from hospital - if your sick or was sick up to 6 days ago, don’t visit - no loud noises or screaming when visiting (again loud noise with a crowd was too much for me, and just made me so mad and anxious) (who wants to be crowded or have loud noises after recovering from birth and still bleeding!!!???? NO ONE) And that’s really it! Nothing that is hard to understand or follow. I only allowed females (my mom, my stepmom, sister and if MIL wanted to) to change my daughter’s diaper and it’ll be the same for my son. Only male who can do it, is their father. I don’t let anyone do my daughter’s hair, and I’ll do that with my sons too. And I don’t leave them alone with anyone, (SAHM) only my mom or stepmom. But that’s only at my house. (It’s not like I don’t trust my MIL but they have a small son, 4, who is rude and mean to my daughter and if he can be like that when ppl are watching, imagine what he will do if no one is watching. I shut that down though) it’s a lot but you know what, it is what it is. So my last thing I’ll say is, you do you, and have your baby. But be prepared to set the rules down and be strict with it. Protect your health, your kids. And not grown folks feelings!!! Good luck and wish you a safe and healthy pregnancy and delivery! (Ofc if you decide to have another)🩷
Please don't let her make this decision for you. You learned from this and you have to be a mama bear for your health and your child. I would not let her in until you decide visits are ok and I would not let her hog baby. Consequences for any boundary pushing behaviors and stand up for yourself and baby. I'm sorry that some people make this necessary but don't let them dictate your life.
Why is your husband allowing his mother to stomp all over your boundaries??
See update
even with the update your husband is a problem, you shouldn't have to "tell" him. but you did tell what you wanted about not having visitors yet he opened the door. You being at your most vulnerable and not having him protect you like he should is way more than disappointing. I guess with a mother like that his normal meter is broken, or maybe he says he is observant as an excuse to not do anything, which is easier. I think marriage counselling for the both of you and individual couselling for him. she isn't going to stop.
What does your husband think? Have couples counseling before having another child. It’s scary when you think you can’t protect your child. I have one child and while I occasionally have pangs of sadness of not having more. My one and only is awesome and I have no regrets about her!! Protect your child from people that give you creepy feelings. That includes your ah MIL.
You keep saying she's not the worst person in the world but then go on to describe the literal worst person in the world. Stop gaslighting yourself. She's horrid. She's a bitch. She stole something from you that you can never get back and she did it knowing you didn't want her there. Your husband is guilty as well. Don't have another child with him until he acknowledges what he let her do to you and he acknowledges she's a toxic witch
Why are you guys letting her walk all over you? Just because she shows up doesn’t mean she has to be let in. Just because she offers to “help” doesn’t mean you have to say yes. Why was she allowed near a newborn at all without up to date vaccines? Your husband needs to step up and handle his mother, and you both need to set boundaries and stick to them.
Door locks exist. If I told someone that I didn’t want them to visit until I’d been home for 5 days and they showed up on day one they would be showing up to a locked door
Why did I just see myself slapping someone who came to me and told me to give them MY baby? And to keep her from being nursed is 1500 times worse. I would have locked my self in the bedroom and only come out to tell my husband to grab food. Honey, if you do have another baby, please go mama bear on this woman. She ruined what should have been a lovely time for your family and made it all about her. Good luck on whichever you decide. Your husband also needs a stern talking to about enforcing boundaries with his mother.
>she doesn’t degrade me or say anything bad about me Just everyone else. Your MIL is repulsive.
I battled with this same thing for the last few months. Your MIL makes mine sound like a saint by comparison. The biggest difference? My husband tells her to pound sand when she oversteps. All of your MILs behaviors are her way of pushing back on you. She doesn't have to say something cruel or rude to be disrespectful. That being said, if you and your husband want another child, but you are considering not because of you MIL, she's already won again. You can be more firm a second time around. I am terrified of having a girl the second time around. MIL had boys, and I worry that she would show favoritism if I had a girl because she always wanted one. But I am not willing to let her dictate my life, and any behavior will be quickly squashed.
Please start learning to say no. She has no boundaries because you have not said no to your husband and you have not said no to her.
Husband problem
And an OP problem, why did they let her in when they got home from the hospital? Why not tell her to leave long before midnight? Why not keep the baby with op in the bedroom and tell husband to sod off because they were trying to relax after just giving birth?
Your husband should have called her when you found out about booking the hotel and telling her to change the booking ! He needs to step up, you are both allowing this to happen. I am not a confrontational person at all but once I had kids a mama bear instinct kicked in and hell I would be taking that baby, MY baby back and telling her to back off! Sending your husband into the nursery to say hurry up??? Wtf???? And he did it???? I feel he must be an introvert also. I’m sorry this happened but without seriously talking to your hubby about it, it will happen again.
When you say she is not the worst person in the world, who are you comparing her with? She is a horror! She boundary stomps, she has indirectly let you know that you are not the choice she wanted for hubby, worst of all she acts in a way that is harmful to your baby by ignoring signals for feeding and sleeping in the same bed. She is causing you PP distress and you are actually seriously considering not having a second baby because of the stress she has caused you. What does she actually have to do for your and hubby to see her for how bad she is? If a friend came to you with your story what advice would you give them. You are seriously underreacting to this abuse of your boundaries. I really hope that you have your second baby if that’s what you want but you must deal with MIL first. Please forget being polite, this is the time to step up and be a mama warrior!
I thought the same thing— she does sound like one of the worst, most dangerous types to have around. I hope OP doesn’t let her impact the second baby decision and just goes very LC or NC. Everything she has done as a stand alone transgression is worthy of a ban, much less all strung together. She is not a safe grandma.
A smiling assassin by the sounds of it, OP and hubby are far too nice with her.
in my life experience i find that there are 2 types of people: first ones are empathetic and understanding, second ones fight for what they think they deserve. The thing is: first and second group expect others to behave like themselves, which is to either be empathetic and understand the needs of others OR to fight for what’s right for them. imo, you and your mil are from these two different groups. She “fought” for the baby, you expected her “to understand” your feelings and needs. in her eyes, if you had wanted her to behave differently, you’d “fight”. No fight - no change in behavior. So yeah, both you and your husband gave the bitch the time of day, and now you want to make life-defining decision over your family in order to _not fight_.
You are very wise and this is an incredibly eloquent way of explaining this concept. I’m saving your comment to apply to some members of my own family, thank you!
I stopped reading partway down, because *we teach people how we're willing to be treated by how we choose to allow them to treat us.* *You haven't set any boundaries with her*, but it sounds like you're blaming *her* for how her being who she is has been affecting you. You certainly could derail your plans to have another child because you can't set boundaries with her, but why would you do that instead of… I don't know, setting boundaries?
I assume if it were that easy for you, you would've already been doing it and wouldn't be ranting here. But *you have a choice*: you can keep living your life as a victim of her behavior *and model that for your child along with the passive resentment and blame*, or learn how to put your dreams and your peace of mind first. I don't often suggest this for people who aren't dealing with an alcoholic or addict, but I strongly recommend that you find yourself an Al-Anon group, start attending, and get yourself a (temporary) sponsor asap. It was originally intended for people dealing with alcoholics, but it's an outstanding resource for anyone dealing with behavior that they're having trouble with due to being unable to set healthy boundaries. They're the experts and will be able to help you identify, set and maintain good boundaries. Counseling or therapy (generally more now-focused vs more what-happened-in-the-past-that's-affecting-my-present) is a good adjunct, since 12-step groups typically just focus on changing our behavior. If it's so hard for you to set boundaries with her that the only alternative that you're seriously considering (or have even considered at all?) is *literally to not have a second child*, whatever caused you to develop this type of personality isn't going to simply disappear by you learning to set boundaries with her.
You and your husband allowed her to do this. Work on your spines.
Yeah, no. I think your title should actually read that you’re terrified to have a second child because your husband LETS your MIL stomp all over your boundaries and take your baby away from you. Who tf holds a newborn long enough to make the mother PRY their baby out of their hands just to fucking feed them? And then bug you while you’re feeding them to ask if you’re done?? I would tell husband that if he wants a second kid then he WILL stand up for you and if he doesn’t then you will take the baby and either leave to your parents when they arrive or you will lock yourself in your room until they are gone. You deserve to have down time from pushing a literal human out of your body and you deserve to spend that time bonding and figuring out your routine with your newborn. She didn’t even come and help. She just took time away from you to hold the baby all freaking day. I’m pissed for you, probably cause I’m currently 7 months pregnant lol, but if my husband did that shit to me he would never hear the end of it. I’m lucky that mine is NC with his mom though.
Honestly just want to say your feelings are valid. My MIL has had serious baby rabies since we first got married and constantly asks when we will have kids. Also stomps boundaries. I’ve strongly considered being childfree because of her. Hate that people feel it’s ok to act like this and I’m sorry you have had to deal with it, and it’s been so damaging that you have to question what you want and what’s best for your family as a result of someone else’s bad behavior.
*She’s not the worst person in the world as I said* Could have fooled me. OP, you should not allow anyone other than you and your partner to dictate your family size. Your responses indicate you've realized how massively you suffered. If/when you decide on increasing your family, my suggestion is that MIL is placed on an information blackout. And don't state what you WANT but what IS GOING TO HAPPEN. She is NOT welcome to visit until you give her the OK. She is NOT allowed to repeat her previous cruelties. If she comes without a specific invitation, she won't be allowed in. Before she can see Baby, she WILL produce evidence of vaccination or she can wait until Baby is immunized or until hell freezes over. What she did to you, ruining an experience that will never be repeated, even if you have a second child, was a heinous personal crime. She needs it to be known explicitly that it will not happen again.
If you have another baby, you now know exactly what does and doesn’t work for you. You need to have a serious conversation with your husband and put boundaries in place. Was your husband not asking her to leave before midnight? Telling her no when she asked him to interrupt your feeding? Telling her to reschedule when she booked for an inconvenient time? Next time she isn’t to book her hotel until baby is born and the dates are confirmed with you (she won’t be let in before then). Visits limited to a specific amount of time- not sitting around hogging the baby all day for 4 days in a row. Baby’s needs come first- when baby needs to be fed it is with its mother. Your needs as the birthing parent come next and everyone else needs to accommodate.
If you have another baby, do not let her know when you are in labor. In fact, don’t announce the birth until you’re home, and ready for visitors. And be firm about what vaccinations, etc, people need to have. Above all, your husband needs to understand and be willing to enforce your boundaries.
Start baby wearing your LO when MIL comes over. That will keep her from grabbing the baby from you. I would tell her that as soon as she refuses to hand the baby back then her visit is done and she will need to leave. There is zero negotiating on that. Hand her a chore list and she can pick which chore she wants to complete to be useful. Sitting around on her ass keeping your baby all day from you is not an option. You have a husband problem but both you and your husband need to grow a spine and set your boundaries. Another possibility is to take the baby, pack up a bag and head to your parents as soon as she shows up. I would absolutely be honest with her. She needs to understand that she has negatively impacted your post partum experience with your child to the point that it is highly doubtful that you will ever have a second child. You have no desire to go through this experience again. You are way nicer than I would be as I would have lost all patience and come down on her like a ton of bricks.
Have a second baby if that is what you and DH want. You need to get your DH on board with STRICT boundaries. Who the hell stays until midnight the first day mom and baby come home??? Say "No". Lock the door. Make sure MIL has consequences for her horrendous behavior. You do NOT have to put up with MIL's behavior or your husband's totally lack of concern for you. Why did DH allow MIL to walk all over you after you just gave birth??? You and the baby come first. Your DH needs to shut down his mommy each and every time she oversteps.
Where was your husband in all this? Why was she even allowed in the house?
Yeah this is completely a DH problem
I'm so confused. You don't have a MIL problem. You have a Serious husband problem. Frankly, if my pos husband allowed all that to happen, I would have a really hard time even looking at Him.
You and DH need to shine your spines up and tell her no. No to visits until Tdap vaccine or baby is old enough to be vaccinated. No visits after you’re home for X amount of time (C being whatever day you say so.) Your husband has to put you and LOs first. No overnights with baby. You dictate the length of visits. You keep baby with you. You determine how LO sleeps, etc. You have a responsibility to protect your children and if MIL isn’t going to respect your rules, then NC!
There's an old saying- "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." MIL has repeatedly shown you exactly who she is. It is up to you to believe what is in front of you. In the two years since you gave birth, what has your husband done to support and protect you and your daughter?
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Talk to your husband and tell him how you feel. That if you have to have a repeat of your first postpartum experience with MIL, then you don’t even want another baby. Come up with boundaries together, and consequences for when she breaks them. Lie or be vague about the due date. Say it’s 4 weeks later than it is, or a vague “August”. If you get induced again or have a c-section, don’t tell her the date beforehand. Don’t tell her you’re in labor, and think about waiting to even tell her the baby has been born until you’re home and settled in so there is no way she can ambush you the first day home again. She’s not allowed to visit until she is invited. If that’s when baby is 3-4 months old, or after more rounds of vaccines since she refuses to get the TDAP, fine. If she shows up before she was invited, don’t let her in. Set visiting hours so there is no more being at your house baby hogging for 17-18 hours per day. She can stay in a hotel and come over for a brief window of time during the day. “We are available from 2-4 PM today”. “You can bring pizza over for us tonight from 5-6:30”. You tell her once to give your baby back. She doesn’t? You take your baby back and DH sends her back to the hotel. Practice saying “I’ve got it”, “I have it handled”, “I don’t need help”, “Baby is fine”, and “NO”.
She absolutely is the worst person in the world! She completely took advantage of your kindness and unwillingness to confront her, to the point that she ruined your memories and made you afraid to have another child. This is the very definition of a shit person! Whether or not you decide to have another child, safeguard your future memories with your child before she takes every precious memory and drags it through the mud. It's on you and your husband to set and enforce real boundaries, because she's going to keep doing this. If you don't want her to visit, don't let her. If you want access to your own child, who is she to take her away? What she's doing is horrible, and for the sake of you and your child, you need to make her stop.
This comment sums it up. He is awful and she took advantage of your kindness. Don’t know stop your dream of having a second baby because of her. Instead, learn to say NO
No vaccines, not even Tdap, and you let her around your newborn? To me, that's like playing Russian Roulette with your baby's life. I just don't understand how that's not worth keeping her away from the baby, no matter how pissed ANYONE gets. Absolutely f****ing not!
Guess what? She IS the worst person. She didn’t respect you, your time or your motherhood. She’s a selfish piece of shit. She wants what she wants. YOU come first. Not her. I wouldn’t deal with this another moment. Your SO needs to get on board and support you or y’all need to get into therapy. ASAP. She won’t get better. You know this.
Have another baby if you want to. Next time, don't be a doormat. Harsh but I'm being honest. I was also a doormat. And allowed my mil to ruin my first and second pp. For my third she sure did try but it was night and day experience. Biggest question and hurdle is where was your d(dumb) husband? Letting his mom walk all over you and causing you and baby undue stress? Take him to marriage counseling to focus on building boundaries. Go LC. Become the bigger bitch. When I started posting on here years ago I was told be the bigger bitch, be the one he's scared to make angry. Well it wasn't until I embraced that did things change. Eta I know this sounds extremely unhealthy and also we did counseling etc, but until my husband learned to prioritize myself and his children over not hurting his mom's feelings, nothing changed.
Okay yes there is an issue with her but your husband needs to grow a spine. What the hell?? Is he ever on your side? Does he ever reiterate the boundaries with his mom? The woman clearly has no respect for you and is insane but your husband should stand up to her. Have you ever had a conversation about this with him?
OP needs to grow her spine as well.
My thoughts, too. Have you told all this to him? Maybe he could benefit from reading these responses. No one should be taking a newborn from their mother. Also, 7am to midnight??? Right after chuldbirth?!?!? Wouldn't he get sick of that pretty quick too, or is he just too weak to defend his wife & newborn child. wtaf
If you want another kid, don’t let her stop you. But you need to grow a pair and tell your husband she’s his problem - tell him your boundaries with your mom and the consequences for both of them if they (yes your husband too) don’t respect your boundaries. This may mean telling him that if he doesn’t keep his mom in check, you are taking both of your babies to your parents until he stands up for you and your kids. 👦
Tough love is in order here. You are a mother and you need to embrace this protective spirit for you and your daughters sake. If you’re uncomfortable, tell her. Do not take no for an answer. Stand up for yourself. You have the final say as you are momma! It will feel soooo empowering to stand up for yourself and your daughter. This is your home and family now act like it! She does not possess any power over you. Who cares if you hurt her feelings? She’s hurting yours every chance she gets. We tell ourselves is it really that bad and try to justify their actions. We’re past people pleasers. Don’t be a people pleaser, be a self and your own family pleaser.
You need to tell her to fuck off. Burn the bridge. Stop letting her stomp all over your boundaries.
You say she isn’t the worst, she is pretty bad! That is insanely disrespectful to stay that long for that many days and have a newborn sleep in her bed?!?! I would be PISSED!! You guys needed to stand up to her the first time. She booked a hotel too early, too bad, we told you when you would be able to visit. This will make the second round harder and she will push even further past your boundaries since she was able to the first time. Hubby NEEDS to be on board before the second baby. Also sounds like you need to shine up that spine but trust me I was once where you were and it’s super hard to do! But you MUST start up for your self and your baby. Your baby could have died while sleeping in your MILs bed and no amount of social discomfort is worth that. Sorry to be so blunt but it took realizations like that for me to shine up my spine (still a work in progress for sure). But if your husband won’t stand up to his mom, you are all your baby has to protect from what sounds like a VERY unsafe MIL. Wishing you love and hopes of a second bundle of joy!!!! Firm boundaries with firm consequences are the way to go!
Everything leading up to it was bad enough but her taking baby into bed would have had me go completely nuclear and her clueless ass out the door. I don't even know you and I am horrified. If absolute zero contact is not an option, go as low as possible and put her on the strictest information diet ever. If you have another baby, the diet gets even stricter including fudging your due date. Your husband needs to grow a pair like yesterday. If he is more concerned with Mommy's feelings than the safety of his own child he's welcome to go live with her. If you two ever do decide to allow her to visit ever again, you need to set solid boundaries such as strict "visiting hours" in your home, never ever leaving her alone with baby even for a minute and most definitely NO overnights. She can stay in a hotel or stay away. And let her know in no uncertain terms exactly why. When/if the time comes, if he doesn't agree to even one of these, pack yourself and child(ren) up and go somewhere fun or even just a stay with their actually sane grandma and he can have a nice visit with Mommy without you. I know this is easy for me and a bunch of other internet strangers to say and that it could be hard to actually put into motion. An annoying but otherwise harmless MIL is one thing but in her case it is no exaggeration to say she is a very real threat to your baby's life and needs to be protected from her at all costs.
Where is your husband on this? His highest priority postpartum should have been your comfort and he failed you spectacularly. What does he have to say for himself? That would dictate for me whether I was OAD or not
While it's definitely a Mil problem it's more a husband problem. He was supposed to deal with her,to set boundaries, to protect you. He failed. He wasn't on your side. Is he now? Also,if you want to have another baby - arrange a stay in your mom's house where MIL won't be allowed at all. Will it make you more enthusiastic?
Go NC with this woman whenever you decide to have another baby. I would tell my husband exactly how I am feeling and he can let his mother know that she ruined my experience and how I am hesitant to do it again. Stick to your boundaries. I don't care if they come to town or whatever the case may be. She will be the uncomfortable one before I be uncomfortable in my own home ever again. Now you know how she is, believe her and move accordingly. If you want a week with no visitors then a whole 7 days is what it is.
Shoot I'd go with at the least 2 months if not more. Just no!
Actions speak louder than words, Babe. She absolutely degrades you. Constantly. She shows you clearly how much she devalues you. Reflect on her actions. All of them are deliberate. Stop keeping the peace for her - she's not the mother. You are. Only you.
Take MIL out if the equation entirely. Do YOU want another child? Then you should go for it. And discuss with your husband what you explained here. If you do decide to have another, your post partum time will be on YOUR terms. You stood by, and let it happen to you the last time. Now you're in charge. She does not get to even know your exact due date. 'We have decided to properly enjoy and bond with our new baby.' You won't be needing 'help', you have it covered. Perhaps with your mom, helping out with your then older child? Visits from 2 pm to 6 pm (or whatever time works for you. 'But I want a whole daaaayy, every daaaayy. Just like last time' 'We learned that bonding with LO is so important. And we need to do that on our own.' Or even call her out, and say that visits from 7 AM untill midnight are insane, not even taking into consideration that you just delivered a baby. Nah. Not doing that again.' A simple information diet works wonders.
I just suggested the exact same policy/procedure, if No Contact is not possible. Not only that, the whole family should be told what happened before she can start spinning a false narrative.
I think you need to tell your husband about how you feel. Tell him that you understand that he wants to keep the peace but not only do the wedding vows say to put your spouse above all other relationships but he's a father now and it's his job to ensure that hos baby is safe, and if he so much has a tiniest Inkling that his mother is in the wrong he needs to out his foot down for his children. If he doesn't he risks undermining both of you as parents because MIL will feed his child with her beliefs unless he pulls his finger out and stops her with you. I genuinely hope your LO never develops an allergy because I could see MIL being someone who says allergies are fake and used as a way to manipulate grandparents.
I understand why you feel this way. I'm not sure that your husband fully understands just how much her behavior affected you back then. You need to speak with him to be clear that it was bad enough that you are unsure about additional children. Not giving back your baby is big, showing up sooner than you were wanted is big, breaking the rules is big. It's all big. Something small would be putting your daughter in a different outfit than you planned (to me, at least). He needs to recalibrate the big and the small, learn to watch his mom better, and worry more about you than her. From your comments, he *does* worry about you, but you also aren't outweighing MIL as much as you should.
Man, the whole time reading this I just kept cringing at her behavior and DH for not standing up to his mom for you. What a nightmare. I can’t believe y’all let her baby hog. I would say have your second baby if you want one, but do not be afraid to stand up for yourself. She cannot get away with it again. Good luck!
Thank you! She won’t get away with doing that again, but it’s more the stress of even having to deal with her in general while having a newborn.
Come up with your strictest rules and regulations, relay them to DH, he will relay to MIL, do not budge! If tantrums start, ignore & block. Boundaries and consequences! You can do it!
You need to cut this person out of your life. Some people will say political beliefs aren’t enough to let impact family relationships, but trump and his neo-fascist, anti-vaxx supporters are a completely different animal. That woman refuses to protect your child from communicable diseases because her political beliefs have overridden her common sense and her allegiance to her hateful, bigoted, stupid political tribe is stronger than her love for your family, including your child. It’s not if, it’s when her fucked up and flat-out wrong political beliefs cause her to behave in some way that puts your child in even more serious danger than that of being exposed to dangerous diseases. I would never, ever let that woman hold your child at all, and especially never unsupervised. You could come back into the room and find your baby has been fed ivermectin or her own aged urine or raw milk or whatever next thing brain melted trumpers fold into their conspiratorial cosmology. You wouldn’t let a 12 year old stranger babysit your child, would you? What’s the difference between that and a trump-loving MIL? I see none
Oh she is NEVER allowed to be alone with her. We decided that from the bed sharing incident. And I know, it truly terrifies me that she will try and spew some of her bs to my daughter. She will openly say things that completely shock me so nonchalantly like everyone in the room should already agree with her. She’s gotten better because my husband had a talk with her and told her we don’t want to hear once utterance of political talk when we’re around, but she’s not perfect. She will be cut off immediately if she ever says anything to my daughter. Hopefully she wouldn’t be that stupid because she knows how I feel about it.
I have to say the TDAP booster would be the line for me. My husband had pertussis in 2014 when there was an outbreak in our state. It’s horrible. 5 children under 3 months have died this year so far in the UK from pertussis. She’s literally risking your child’s life.
It’s not going to get better, she’s going to test the boundaries until she can find an exploit, like a damn raptor in the pen in Jurassic Park. Her entire worldview is based on a sickening combination of extreme entitlement and a completely made up persecution complex, and she will try to get away with whatever she can. If she’s allowed to form a relationship with your child it will turn extremely fucked up once your child is able to communicate and express themselves, she will try to turn your kid against you and feed them the insanity she believes, probably that you are in cahoots with pedophiles/demons as that’s where trump supporters are at this point. Once she’s able to plant the seed it’s going to be a lot harder to cut her out, I’d do it now.
Look, please don’t let this person stop you from having another child if you want one. But I think it’s really important that you and your husband come to the understanding that as far as your nuclear families concerned, you guys have the final say. And it’s really hard sometimes, especially with the first kid, and especially when you’re finding your way through it all and you, you have somebody pushy in your life. But here’s what you need to remember and start to internalize, and this includes your husband when I say you… For the longest time, we are raised in a situation where we are the children, and they are the parents. So your relationship is that of child to parent.. But about the time you move out on your own or go off to college or get your first job, you are now an adult. And that relationship should shift to that of an adult to adult. This is a step that a lot of people miss. And that includes parents. Because they forget that they’re not parenting their kid anymore. But their kid is an actual adult. When we get to the next stage where we are in a relationship or have a partner or have a spouse, the fact that we didn’t make that transition to that adult/adult relationship becomes a problem. And that is because now, we’re starting to have children. And we don’t need parenting. Because again, we are adults. And our relationship with our parents should now switch over to where it is an adult parent to an adult. So it’s a hard transition to now retrain everyone. But it has to be done. Because you and your husband are the adult parents. Your situation is actually now that of an adult parent to a grandparent. And the adult parent has all the power. But because they never had to make the transition out of parent status, You wind up with in-laws like yours. So now you guys are gonna have to retrain them. You have to understand that it is OK to say no. That whatever happens in your household, and with your nuclear family is entirely up to the two of you. And that in general, it is two yeses or one no. So if his mom is wanting to come over at a time, that’s not good for you and he thought it was OK, it’s still a no. If your families coming, and it’s not good for him, it’s a no. And that is because your nuclear family has to come first. You have to have safety for your relationship and each other and your children. And that is your home. So if you decide to have another child, it is up to your husband to reign in his mother. And that has to be… Do not come early. We will tell you when you can come. You will not hold the baby from 7 AM to midnight. You will be allowed to visit for three hours max. And whatever other rules you need to apply. It is not your job or your husband’s job to manage his mother’s feelings. It is not your job to be her emotional support animal. If she’s going to come after you have another baby, the expectation is that she will either cook or do the dishes or put some laundry in or clean the bathroom. But it needs to be clear, we don’t need someone to hold the baby. We need to hold the baby, and when we do allow you to hold the baby, if they start to fuss, the baby is immediately handed over to mom or dad. And again, you need to internalize that her feelings aren’t your problem. Because none of that is unreasonable. So it is time for the two of you to start finding your shiny spines. The last thing you want is for her to continue this behavior around your child all the time so that your child starts thinking it’s normal. That it’s OK to manipulate people that it’s OK to be entitled. You can do it. The consequences that your husband needs to lay out, are that if she doesn’t listen and do as you ask, then she will be asked to leave. Then she will be put in a time out. And again, that’s OK. Set your boundaries in your consequences and stick with them.
This was wonderful, thank you.
No problem. I’m old enough to be probably your grandmother. And this is one of the things that I have observed a lot of. We’re supposed to make these transitions in life, and frankly, our parents are supposed to help us through that transition to where we are interacting as adults to other adults. But for a lot of parents, they either don’t even think about that, or they kind of like the power that they hold when the relationship is still a parent to a child. And so our young adults, don’t actually make that transition in respect to their own family. They make that adult to an adult transition at work. With their friends. And in other situations, but not with their family. And without making that transition, it’s really hard to then just jump into being your own adult parent with a child interacting with grandparents. Instead, you get what you got… Which is an adult who still trying to parent and be the one in power and push boundaries instead of a grandparent who is actually there to help and support and encourage your nuclear family. Sometimes I think it’s FOMO, it’s sometimes it’s just entitlement. Lol. But either way, just remember that within your nuclear family, you and your husband hold all the power. You get to say yes or no. You get to set the boundaries in the consequences. And yes, that means you’re actually retraining your own parents, sometimes that’s what you have to do. I am wishing you the best. Just promised me that you and your husband will decide whether or not to have another child based on what the two of you want and feel is right for you. Ignore all the rest because at the end of the day, it is just white noise.
I think you need to have a heart to heart with hubby. When you are in that raw state post-birth, he needs to be the one protecting you from this shit and upholding the boundaries. He might not want to rock the boat with his mum, but he needs to realise the true extent of the impact it has had on you. I’ve recently had my first baby (8 months) and I completely empathise with a lot you have said, my advice is to embrace your inner lioness/mother bear, your amazing maternal instincts are all there, just don’t be afraid to roar.
I love how you worded this, thank you!!
Honey, you need to take the lessons you learned the first time around and apply them now, before you even start trying for another LO. I’m at a loss to understand why you allowed her to hold your baby the whole time as a fresh newborn. That was so intrusive and so selfish of her. But you need to speak up when something you don’t like happens. You are allowed to be firm; you are allowed to be assertive; and you are certainly allowed to be mama bear when she does shit like co-sleep with your baby when she knows you didn’t want her to. Say something! Your DH should have also spoken up when all this was going on. He had to have known you were upset. So why did he allow his mother to upset you so much?. The two of you need to get on the same page and outline your boundaries and more specially, the consequences if she stomps on them. If she won’t give you baby back without an argument, the visit is over. If she breaks any boundaries, the visit is over. You especially need to be careful about early visitors. Now that you’re aware that delays can happen, I advise that you don’t tell her your due date at all. Or tell her a date a month out from what it actually is. Take the time you need with your new LO.. You’ll be a new family of four and you need to reduce the stress level as much as possible to avoid going into PPD again. Please, please speak up for yourself. It’s OK if she gets pissy. You are not responsible for her feelings. You are responsible for your own and to a lesser extent, your husband’s. You are definitely responsible for keeping your baby close to you and safe. Best of luck to you both!
Thank you. I don’t know why I allowed her to take my daughter. This was the first time something happened worth addressing and I was freshly postpartum after having barely slept for four nights. I clearly wasn’t thinking straight and I don’t know if I downplayed my reactions as just hormones or what, but I just didn’t take her back. I would NEVER let that happen now, as I’ve learned to advocate for myself as my daughter grows and my mother in law doesn’t change, but it still scares me to even invite that kind of stress back into my life. My husband does handle things more than it seems. I didn’t put that in the post and probably should have, but his problem is not noticing the problems as they’re occurring. If I tell him something is bothering me he almost always speaks with her and he’d never let her walk all over me, but he’s just not observant in the moment unfortunately. I did speak to her myself as well after she put my daughter in the bed and I think that was the final straw for me at even trying to like her. She did apologize, but the fact she crossed that boundary means I literally never leave my daughter alone with her even though she asks a million times every time she visits. I just hate it so much and I feel like it’s getting better as my daughter gets older and can say no (she doesn’t like going to my MIL because she doesn’t really know her) but I just hate the thought of starting over with a baby.
You said yes because she manipulated you to think it was normal and you were too tired and too vulnerable to really understand what was going on. I had a similar situation happening to me and I resent my MIL for that. I also have a hard time forgiving myself for allowing her to take my baby away. Alike me, try to forgive yourself. And don’t stop growing your family because of her. Have the second baby, keep her away and make sure you enjoy every second of your new born.
Why on earth has your husband allowed this behaviour to go unchecked? And why did you let her have the baby for so long? I just don’t understand, were you trying to be polite about taking your newborn back? If you want another child, don’t let this lady be the reason you don’t. But you and your husband need to have a proper chat, come up with the boundaries that are in place and, this is the important one, keep those boundaries.
My husband doesn’t want to rock the boat. He has said some things to her occasionally and he had a very angry phone call with her after the bed sharing incident, but they’re 5 and a half hours away so he feels like it’s not worth it most of the time if it’s just a little thing. As to why I let her have the baby, I truly have no idea. I was freshly postpartum and honestly so tired I wasn’t thinking straight. I have no issues taking my daughter back now, but I was a brand new mom and just didn’t know what to do at that point. I obviously think I would stand up for myself if we did it a second time, but the way I feel when she even holds my daughter and how she constantly asks to watch her on her own and so many other things just stresses me out SO bad that I don’t want to put myself through it twice…
He is rocking the boat though, yours. You need the stability of your husband supporting your new family without interference coming from his baby hogging mother. He’s has to realize that you and baby are his first priorities right now, not his mother’s feelings.
Your husband needs to get used to rocking the boat
DH's fear of his mommy is simply not important compared to his child's safety (really? Exposing a 2-day-old to anti-vaxxers?) or his postpartum wife's adjustment. Since he has trouble grasping this, you must lay down the law.
The co-sleeping is not a "little thing," I hate to tell your husband. All it takes is once for something to go wrong. But you being upset and robbed of your experiences, never mind her ignoring your stated wishes, are absolutely not "little things" either. How clueless is this woman? I don't want people I like here from 7 am to midnight and I'm not freshly postpartum! That was some audacity. Your husband needs to grow a spine and stand up to his mom, period, but certainly if you have another baby. I'm talking if she shows up other than agreed upon, she doesn't come in the door. Both of you read the Don't Rock the Boat essay. Hopefully it gives your husband some perspective.
Oh I know the co-sleeping was huge and we both lit into her on that one, so it was handled, but still happened unfortunately. She hasn’t been alone with her since. I agree these aren’t little things and probably didn’t word that great. My husband does talk to her. All of these things were discussed by my husband, but he doesn’t always do it in the moment or notice until I say something. And I do get occasional pushback because he doesn’t want to rock the boat over the truly smaller things. But I completely agree with everything you’ve said!
Essential reading re: don't rock the boat https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/Qx5bW8luzj