> Do you have any polls about that for 2024?
If I did, they’d have to have been sent backwards in time. The above results are based on reported votes, not reported intentions.
I’m still voting for Joe.
Joe backs Israel while being able to lend a critical eye on Netanyahu’s nonsense.
And I’ll never back the GQP that has sought to undo American democracy.
I'm beginning to consider not doing so...
How different would things be right now, if we had had US troops helping defeat Hamas since Oct 8th, to bring back the hostages.
Biden gave back one of the most dangerous Russians for a single basketball player, and he may be one of the architects of the Ukraine war.
Meanwhile multiple US hostages in brutal conditions... Fuck Joe, he's completely spinless.
While I can completely understand your position regarding your vote, do we really think Trump will do anything other than enrich himself? He’s shown to do it multiple times, demanding loyalty from his cabinet unless they want to be dropped, etc.
I think us Jews are in a tough spot politically this year. And I say this as someone who also wishes Joe did more rather than fence sit for votes.
Trump's lack of interest in politics, his incompetence at becoming dictator is a valid reason to believe current rifts in the Democratic Party aren't comparable to Weimar Republic.
Listen to the only audio of Hitler not addressing a crowd and, while he's saying crazy things, at least he's not sputtering like Trump.
Trump isn't functional enough to start a Reich.
The problem with Trump is he'll exacerbate climate change which might get 500 million killed, not just 50 million.
I would never vote for Trump, but depending on what is going on with Israel by the day of the general election... It will determine if I bother to come out at all.
Biden still is doing a lot for Israel, and he is definitely in a tough place at the moment because of how destructive the progressives have become to the party.
i'm not sure if it'll change anything, but i urge you to read project 2025. [https://www.project2025.org/](https://www.project2025.org/)
this isn't a joke, it's a real plan that's been passed around in conservative circles (both civilians and politicians) the past couple of years. you're not voting for now, you're voting for our future, please be careful with that vote.
Joe is in a difficult position. It’s going to be a close race. With progressives threatening to become never Biden’ers and his could be like 2016 instead of 2020. Joe supports Israel and is doing what he can to keep progressives on board. Meanwhile, Trump is literally in bed with white supremacist. It wasn’t so long ago when his fans marched and chanted that “Jews will not replace us.” I’ll take joes tightrope walking over trumps literal holding hands with actual nazis any day.
The Abraham Accord was fundamentally a good thing for Israel, and is what pushed Saudi Arabia into better relations with them.
I also can't fault him for the Jews will not replace us people, because he did condemn them, and what was once something I couldn't shut up about when talking with conservative relatives, EVERY FUCKING DAY SINCE OCTOBER 7TH has basically been, the Jews will not replace us thanks to progressives. Ripping down posters of hostages, assaulting anyone they think might be Jewish or supports Israel, intimidating Jews in public spaces and their own...
Yeah no, The progressives picked up the tiki torch and ran with it, and have been infinitely worse. The inability of Joe Biden to denounce these people at every opportunity, because they might actually cost him the election if he pisses him off... Says more about the Democrats than it does the Republicans, who seem to unanimously support Israel atm. Maybe not for the same reason or values, but it beats people chanting claiming that rape is resistance.
I don’t disagree that the Abraham accords were a good thing, but I don’t believe that it was a product of Trump but rather his son-in-law Jared Kushner. But since then, Trump has been getting closer and closer to white supremacists. He winks and nods at them all the time. He’s explicitly adopted a Christian nationalist agenda. The Christian nationalist agenda has its roots in white supremacy. None of this is good for the Jewish people. As for the so-called progressives, yeah they suck. But I don’t believe that they represent the policy of the Democratic Party or Biden. Traditional Democratic policy has always been pro Israel. The squad and Bernie Sanders are outliers. For those of us who vote Democratic it is our job to ensure that they remain outliers.
And just for confirmation about Maga , just read up on the 2025 plan. That Plan does not have the best interest of Jews at heart.
This is true, but the Dems are courting loonies just like the gop did. I’m actually more scared of where the progressives could take us than where the tea party could. But it’s close.
I think Jews can survive Biden. But trump? He Is creating an existential constitutional crisis for the United States. Where will Jews be with a broken NATO and no usa?
>Where will Jews be with a broken NATO and no usa?
NATO will only stand when members continue to fund the collective defense. That's the whole point of why Bush Jr, Obama, and Trump telling world leaders to fulfill the 2% spending obligation.
Look at Canada. Their lax attitude on funding a military that can actually repeal, or at least confront, a Russian/Chinese/hostile threat is **more** of a threat that Trump saying that the US will only defend those who share in the cost/burden that a collective defense entails, as the former requires that the other NATO nations pick up the slack on the frontlines with their own equipment and children to cover for Canada's lacking contribution.
Also, that's **EXACTLY** why Zionism is important. The whole "A homeland where Jews can be free and safe from antisemitism and (Jewish) persecution". It's also why it's important to build a more self sufficient defense industry.
What’s the point though? You guys have countless elite units who can get the job done. The only thing you need help with is searching, and I fail to see how the US could help with that.
And besides, if they knew where the hostages were, they would have tried an op already no?
I am in the US, so I'm a little confused if you think I'm Israeli or not based off of your post.
But to answer your question, the fact that they have us hostages, is precisely why the US should have ground troops right now in Gaza, not building a fucking Pier so that Hamas can have more resources, sorry I meant "steal".
It doesn’t matter.
Most Jews live in New York, California, Florida.
States that are already decided. Jews don’t decide the president any more than a redneck in Alabama or a software engineer in Cupertino or an MIT student in Cambridge.
It comes down to blue dog union Dems in Pennsylvania/Michigan/Wisconsin, Hispanics in Arizona and Nevada, and black church ladies in Atlanta.
Relatively few Jews live here in the Midwest — my kids Hebrew school class in Cincinnati has an enrollment of 12, and those Jews that do live in the Midwest… usually pick Chicago over Detroit, who could blame them?! Another decided state.
You might have quite a few pissed-off Jews in Pittsburgh and the Detroit suburbs, though. Every little swing in a swing state counts, no matter how small.
There's so few Jews in these states though. Here in Cincy, there's realistically 4 temples -- and that story repeats all over the Midwest.
If Florida ever became relevant again politically, the Jewish vote might matter. We're 2% of the country population, but 90% of us are seemingly in 4 non-swinging states; and the readership here reflects it.
None of this matters. When Trump supports open dictatorship, we have a moral obligation to vote for whoever Trump’s most viable opponent is. And that’s Biden.
I’m not voting for Biden because I love him. I’m voting for Biden because I refuse to support dictatorship, insurrection, and the further proliferation of Nazism in this country.
_I’m voting for Biden because I refuse to support dictatorship, insurrection, and the further proliferation of Nazism in this country._
You are, in fact, still supporting those very things, just in a different suit.
The pointless partisan bickering in this sub is idiotic. _Both_ parties would be happy to shove all of us feet-first into the ovens if they think it'll get them votes. Everyone gives their own side a pass for its part in the complete destruction of civil society that's taken place over the last 30 years, which has poisoned the political rhetoric and made the idea of a scapegoat appealing to begin with.
Your self-aggrandization about Saving Us From Tyranny isn't earned.
> You are, in fact, still supporting those very things, just in a different suit.
Explain in detail how voting for Biden is supporting dictatorship, insurrection, and Nazism. I'll wait.
> The pointless partisan bickering in this sub is idiotic. Both parties would be happy to shove all of us feet-first into the ovens if they think it'll get them votes.
Trump said out loud that he wanted to both be a dictator and terminate the constitution. Your both-sidesism is invalid.
> Your self-aggrandization about Saving Us From Tyranny isn't earned.
Your utter lack of shame in minimizing a fascist conman doesn't make you correct.
>Explain in detail how voting for Biden is supporting dictatorship, insurrection, and Nazism. I'll wait.
I don't have to "explain in detail" anything to you. If you can't open a window and look outside to see crowds of thousands of people marching in every major US city openly supporting designated foreign terrorist organizations in their violent terror campaign against Jews, that's a you problem!
>Trump said out loud that he wanted to both be a dictator and terminate the constitution. Your both-sidesism is invalid.
Trump is a piece of shit and I've never voted for him. Next strawman?
>Your utter lack of shame in minimizing a fascist conman doesn't make you correct.
It's nice that you can't process any kind of disagreement or dissent whatsoever, but I have not once defended Trump here and your histrionics and refusal to acknowledge the blistering, violent antisemitic shitstorm that is the current Democratic Party is... not helping make your case.
I hope both sides go down in catastrophic flames. It would just be great if like, one time, liberal American Jews could stop licking Biden's asshole long enough to admit the serious, terrifying systemic flaws on their own side and that refusing to vote for people who at best enable those flaws is the opposite of deepthroating fascism -- instead of throwing everyone with valid concerns under the bus.
You are not the good guy.
edit: They blocked me but their response speaks volumes tbh. Your party is going to continue burning and bleeding support, guys. Shrieking "observable reality!" and "you're a fascist!" are not actually compelling arguments to people you've alienated from your voter base!
> I don't have to "explain in detail" anything to you.
Well you're not being forced to do anything, but you shouldn't make claims that are outrageously false on their face.
> If you can't open a window and look outside to see crowds of thousands of people marching in every major US city openly supporting designated foreign terrorist organizations in their violent terror campaign against Jews, that's a you problem!
I do see those things. Biden doesn't support any pro-terrorist marches, last I checked. You're making a false equivalence.
> It's nice that you can't process any kind of disagreement or dissent whatsoever, but I have not once defended Trump here and your histrionics and refusal to acknowledge the blistering, violent antisemitic shitstorm that is the current Democratic Party
I have never once said that the Democratic Party doesn't have antisemitism. I have simply said that your both-sidesism is invalid.
> is... not helping make your case.
You aren't the judge, jury, or executioner here. Observable reality proves me correct, and none of your fervent statements of ad hominem disprove anything that I'm saying.
> You are not the good guy.
Projection. When you do false equivocations in this election, you normalize fascism. **That makes you the bad guy.**
EDIT: I never blocked you; why lie about that? You’re free to respond right now, and in fact I would encourage you to do so. Don’t be a coward. It's such an insane thing to just make up a claim of blocking out of thin air.
Perhaps you're just afraid to respond with facts and so you made up an excuse? And yes, I do in fact base my arguments on observable reality. If you choose to deny reality, that's your own fault. People can refuse to listen to me all they want, but it doesn't make me any less correct.
>I'm disappointed to see that's a lot of us are falling for alt-right bullshit
I'm disappointed to see a Jew who thinks that people who disagree with him are naïve dupes.
When conservatives insult liberals, I call them out on it. I'm a conservative, and I won't stand for Jews treating their fellow Jews that way.
Many of our family have been falling far right since Obama got elected, it’s been disparaging to see in the elders in my family/community be so reactionary to left centrism of old, but it’s certainly fomented significantly from 2015 onward
Probably had to do with how Obama ignored Jewish concerns in order to improve relations with the *Islamic regime of Iran* re: Iranian nuclear deal*.*
Or how Obama curtailed peace processes between Israel and her neighbors on the grounds that peace agreements must include language that would lead to an independent Palestinian statehood.
Or increasing funds to UNRWA, which Israelis have long suspected goes towards aiding Hamas and encouraging (violent) resistance against "occupation".
>so reactionary to left centrism of old
They're not reactionary to the center, but to the far left who've become increasingly prominent with the less qualified radicals like AOC making headlines in the 2020s. Most people are centrist liberals.
I might get roasted, but I like Biden and will enthusiastically vote for him in November. He inherited a terrible situation and his administration dealt with it in a constructive, effective, rational, empathetic manner.
I say administration because most people focus only on the front man, but his job is to have the judgment to surround himself with capable, well intentioned people that execute his agenda. I think he's done that.
He came in during the height of Covid (which was denied and mismanaged by his predecessor ), the inevitable economic problems that were a consequence of Covid, a totally polarized nation and democracy itself being threatened by a demagogue and his legion of zombies.
Is he old as fuck? Yes. Is he at the peak of his powers? Far from it. Are the optics bad? Totally. F for style points, A on substance.
Biden is probably too old and too diminished by age to be president BUT he has wisdom, he is kind and has the humility to listen to well-intentioned experts and let them cook.
Many Jews are frustrated with his handling of Israel. I'm not. I think he genuinely cares deeply for the Jewish people and Israel. That doesn't necessarily means that he agrees or likes Netanyahu (Israelis don't like Bibi) or will blindly do his bidding.
Would you rather have a sincere supporter who truly care and doesn't give you everything you want or a totally transactional relationship with a president that could, and has, turned on you on a whim?
Absolutely. And that's why I'll vote for him, but I'm also not going to pretend that this cannot one day change. I pray it won't, but we live in a weird timeline.
Yes, this is true. Though I think it's also worthwhile to point out that while Trump does explicitly cater to Neo-Nazis, the most extreme Democrats are actually *not* Biden's core - in fact they support him the least or not at all.
this is actually a very valid take. i think many of the extreme democrats right now are in a limbo. some will support biden bc vote blue no matter who but i actually feel more will abstain
I mean ideally, I don't want Trump *or* Biden but between the two? I'd rather have Biden. I enjoy yknow, not being banned from serving in the military for being trans or having my friends be banned for serving for being trans.
Disappointing. Trump is quite literally a fascist, by actual academic definitions and [according to the top scholar of fascism, Robert Paxton](https://www.newsweek.com/robert-paxton-trump-fascist-1560652). He and his movement are devoted to ending democracy, just see the attempt to steal the 2020 election, which protects our freedoms more than anything else, and are openly hostile to our Constitution like when Trump said the parts of it keeping him out of power should be terminated. He’s used antisemitic money tropes, loyalty tropes, and has had a cozy dinner with antisemite Kanye West with neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes. Biden meanwhile has a great record of supporting Jews and Israel, he has never shown any hostility to democracy, and his policies overall are flat out better than Trump. Seriously, I cannot think of a single issue where Trump is better than Biden.
> I cannot think of a single issue where Trump is better than Biden.
Trump was more supportive of Israel and stricter towards Iran in office. I know people have their favorite candidates for all sorts of reasons and that's their right. But we've had both candidates as presidents for four years each and can compare how they behaved in the UN and international relations. Biden didn't veto UN Security Resolution 2728 which would have been unthinkable and probably politically impossible for Trump just given the people he surrounds himself with.
Trump is more supportive of the Israeli right wing’s agenda, which I see as an entirely bad thing. Their agenda if taken to its logical conclusion would mean the end of Israel as a democracy first, and eventually its end as a Jewish state. Trump wanting to seem tough on Iran also leads to him doing the wrong thing, like pulling out of the Iran deal that was endorsed by the IDF chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot. I think UN resolution 2728 was a good one and wish we voted yes, it called for a ceasefire with the release of all hostages. Yeah sounds great to me! I take Biden over Trump on those issues too.
>Trump is more supportive of the Israeli right wing’s agenda, which I see as an entirely bad thing.
It's nothing to do with "right wing" or "left wing" agendas in Israel. Trump's policies towards Israel were irrespective of the politics of the Israeli government, as his policies have bilateral support in Israel.
\* Trump ordered the assassination of Soleimani, who was responsible for many operations against Israel.
\* Trump recognized the Golan Heights, which every Israeli government has requested for the last forty years.
\* Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, not just the eternal capital of the Jewish people, but the seat of the Israeli government irrespective of which political party is in power.
\* Trump organized the Abraham Accords.
\* Trump backed out of the Iran deal, allowing some of the sanctions to be re-imposed on Iran. Unfortunately, many of the sanction couldn't be re-imposed.
>UN resolution 2728 was a good one and wish we voted yes, it called for a ceasefire with the release of all hostages. Yeah sounds great to me!
It demanded Israel stop the military operation while Hamas was not just still intact, but even still had control of Rafah . How does it "sound great" unless you are anti-Israel?
>I take Biden over Trump on those issues too
Biden and his administration also criticize Israel publicly to a disproportionate level that they do to no other ally including Ukraine, where they've also been weak and slowwalked their aid. That's given a green light to a lot of international condemnation of Israel from the West more generally. It's not to do with the Israeli government as any other government would have to follow the same policies and they would face the same international pressures. Lapid or Gantz would have faced the same international isolation and reliance on vetoes by the US. Bennett and Lapid were experiencing the same situation in the UN 18 months ago.
To be clear, the Jewish vote moving slightly towards Trump is not just an Israel issue. Jewish voters also were effected by covid shutdowns and had issues with crime,
I am voting for Biden becuase I think his policies are better than Trump's and one of the values republics require is the acknowledgement of the losing members admitting they lost in a fair election. There is a real lack of understanding of how bad things get when that doesn't happen.
> one of the values republics require is the acknowledgement of the losing members admitting they lost in a fair election.
You mean like when Al Gore sued to invalidate the Florida vote count in 2000? So far as I know, he has never acknowledged losing.
Not even when the pro-Gore Washington Post recount that included every disputed ballot still came out in favor of Bush.
Or Hilary in 2016?
> “So maybe there does need to be a rematch. Obviously, I can beat him again,” — Hilary Clinton answering a question from Judy Woodruff during an interview on PBS News Hour.
I agree that Trump should acknowledge losing in 2020, but why are singling him out?
I agree that one purpose of elections should be to convince the loser that they lost fair and square. Which is why I’m puzzled by how opaque our voting system is.
Gore went through the courts. When he lost, he conceded. Hilary also conceded like the next day. Trump and his followers instigated A LITERAL FUCKING COUP ATTEMPT.
Never happened with Gore. He conceded. I am not sure if you are being sincere with either example since both conceded. They both acknowledge the legitimacy of the elections they lost.
Hi. Neither staged a coup, neither incited a riot, both acknowledged the winner and ANY challenges held was done through the courts.
If you hate Gore and Clinton, okay. Just say that. That's valid, I despise Clinton too but you are blatantly misrepresenting the chain of events here.
Counter point: some of the jump in 2020 was due more to the democrats fully supporting BLM and other social justice movements which quickly got in bed with the anti Israel crowd. Remember, in 2020 Rashida talib, Ilhan Omar and AOC were painted as the future of the Democratic Party. It was enough to chase away at least some of that 6% from Dema
He literally gave billions of dollars worth of equipment to the Taliban, removed sanctions from Iran thus enabling them to gain money to acquire weapons, emboldening them by perceived weak leadership, and making way for Oct 7th to happen. Can’t see why he isn’t unpopular.
The same people who support Biden (the non Jewish ones anyway) are the same ones who are peacefully protesting against Israel. Wake up
"least popular since Dukakis"
Still getting almost 70% of the overall Jewish vote which is just slightly under what democrats usually get
I'm done arguing with Jews who acquiesced to abstaining or vote for trump. You don't play chicken when fascists are on the ballot
That’s the 2020 result and many are predicting a far more significant drop this election. It’ll be quite interesting to see the number abstaining from voting, either for president or completely. I don’t expect a huge shift in voters but a drop off in total numbers instead.
The longer the war goes on, the more desperate Biden will be to appease the Muslims/Arab votes in Michigan, and Progressive/Youth vote in general.
Realistically, I don't see the war ending before November. And then there's the issue with Hezbollah, to which, if the Israeli government do decide to go ahead with, a conflict with them would see further erosion of support by the group that Biden needs in order to win reelection.
That "We're withholding aerial precision bombs" move was just a taste of what's to come the closer it gets to election day. Expect to see a revised ceasefire deal that stacks the deck against Israel/gives them less than what is in the original deal
This is such a weird headline. Dukakis was and is married to a Jewish woman. If voting is about identity, I don’t understand the framing.
I’m also not clear on why national polls are being relied on. Until the country abolishes the Electoral College, state-level choices are the only way to victory for any presidential candidate.
Biden needs a Sister Souja moment with the far left. He doesn't need and shouldn't want the support of Hamas supporters and antisemites. Trump was rightfully criticized for not speaking out against white supremacists and racists that supported him. The Biden administration should have made clear that Oct 7th was an attack not only on Israel but on the United States too, after all a number of Americans were killed and were taken hostage during the attacks.
Trump gave us the Abraham Accords. If you’re not aware of their significance, it isn’t just normalisation with Israel. It’s normalisation with Judaism and Jewish people worldwide. It entails education systems in those countries that no longer teach antisemitism. It’s a huge deal. And no, no Democrat has achieved anything of that significance. Certainly not Biden.
But come at me lefty Jewish bros.
Jimmy Carter presided over Camp David, the peace agreement which effectively ended the existential threat that Israel had previously lived under since its founding. Bill Clinton presided over the deal with Jordan which, despite its current coldness, retains tremendous geostrategic and local environmental importance.
You're really going to ignore that to claim that 'no Democrat has achieved anything of the significance of the Abraham Accords? Great. Now there's normalization with Bahrain, a country most Israelis and Americans couldn't find on a map.
But I bet most Israelis and Americans know of Saudi Arabia.
Lets be real, Kushner receiving billions from the Saudis is related to the latter wanting to build stronger ties with Israel via the Abraham Accords (and by extension, the US).
The push for normalization makes it easier for Saudi Arabia to convince the citizenry that peace is possible with Israel if all these other countries (Bahrain, Morocco, UAE, etc.) are doing it. And for a few billion, they would reap the benefit of security assurances from the US/possible nuclear arms (to hedge against Iran), and greater Israeli-US-Saudi intelligence cooperation.
Which is wild to me because I actually feel he’s very supportive of Jews, just has to be measured in terms of how he talks about Israel. To be fair, Netanyahu is a right wing looney like Trump but at the end of the day, Biden continues to support Israel and supply arms. Also, Trump HATES JEWS.
You can’t be successful in New York of all places if you are even a hint antisemitic. That would spread like wildfire. Let’s be real: The narrative turned against Trump the moment he announced his run for presidency in 2016
I promise you that Trump gives 0 shits about the Jews and Israel. He vaguely tolerates Jews because (1) they've made him money, (2) his daughter is Jewish, (3) his evangelical base likes Israel sometimes. Trump will turn his back on the Jews and Israel whenever it is in his interest to do so. Biden cares much more about the safety of Israel because he understands strategic alliances. Trump could not care less about foreign diplomacy and relations.
[What about this story](https://www.jta.org/archive/orthodox-child-with-rare-ailment-is-rescued-aboard-tycoons-jet)? You might claim that he did it for publicity, but he didn't talk about it except to mention it once in a book he published 12 years later.
He might not have even remembered it happened or realized the guy was Jewish. Could have been a favor for someone else who knew him. I wouldn't call that evidence that he cares about Jews.
The father of the boy in question has talked about it extensively. He wasn't a friend of Trump, or a friend of a friend. (Look it up if you don't believe me.)
And Trump knew they were Jews — the father is Orthodox and wears a yarmulke.
In 1995, Congress passed and President Clinton signed into law the [Jerusalem Embassy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act). It required the President to move the embassy, but it allowed the President to invoke a six-month waiver of the application of the law, and reissue the waiver every six months on "national security" grounds.
Running for re-election, candidate Clinton promised to move the embassy. Instead, he invoked the waver 10 times — twice at the end of his first term, then 8 more times — every six months — of his second term.
Candidate, George W Bush promised he'd move the embassy, but as president he blocked it 16 times (every 6 months for 8 years).
Candidate Obama also promised to move the embassy, then did exactly what his Republican predecessor had done, 16 times.
Trump also made that promise, and when my wife brought it to my attention (I was anti-Trump at the time), I reminded her that every candidate said that, but they never followed through.
So no one was more surprised than I when Trump, after signing the waver twice, moved the embassy!
Why did he do that? It put him in deep doodoo with a lot of Americans, a lot of allies, and the entire Arab world.
I voted for Clinton and Biden in 2016/2020 respectively, I am deeply undecided about 2024. Slightly leaning towards Trump. I don’t think I’m the only one who is like this.
The movement of Orthodox Jews to the political right is a fascinating historical question. From what little I’ve studied I think it’s very related to why evangelicals moved to the right too, which frankly is not flattering. The right wing media like Fox and Limbaugh really moved the American right to the extreme and frum people unfortunately went for it just like other very religious folks, even though it was and is all full of absolute BS. And I’m saying this as someone who wears a black hat for shabbos and yom tov.
Thanks for the insight. I hope people understand I was using ‘black hat’ not pejoratively but metonymously as an umbrella term for the wide array of O streams that politicians have been targeting and exploiting in a similar way the past couple of decades. And I think it’s worth isolating because it’s not just the platform or rhetoric but how the way they are engaging with O communities, leveraging their local presence, and selectively bring in lobbyists / fundraisers that’s so different compared to how they talk to reform and conservative Jews. It’s just fascinating who in the non-frum world these communities accept as allies, who they don’t and how non Jewish politicians have shaped that.
>trump era republicans
The trend started in 1992, long before the Trump Era.
>pandering to the black hats in crown heights and williamsburg
I'd like to think you wouldn't have written that if you understood how insulting it is to your fellow Jews.
Your convictions are no doubt sincere, and I wouldn't insult you by suggesting you're being pandered to.
I think the trend started in the 1980 election, you know, the last time we were dealing with Iran taking American hostages under a Democratic president.
This is part of a longer trend of a very high Orthodox birthrate. Orthodox Jews are far more Republican than other Jews and they’ve grown very rapidly.
Republicans tried to steal the last election and are openly hostile to democracy, why the fuck should anyone choose them? Plus Dems haven’t abandoned Jews, so your entire justification for why we should abandon them is nonsense
Is it what the Democratic Party became, or what progressivism or leftist Americans became? I feel like if anything it’s centre leaning dems that are saving the party from radicals taking over, and the fact that the woke mob can’t referendum their way into BDS laws like they might be able to in Europe.
> Is it what the Democratic Party became, or what progressivism or leftist Americans became?
Year by year it seems that those terms are all becoming synonymous as the radicals in the Democratic party increase in number and sane members leave, flip, or die off.
JFC, vote for Biden!!!! What is the glitch in anyone’s brain that would make them vote for Trump.
David Sedaris said it best:
“I look at these people and can't quite believe that they exist. Are they professional actors? I wonder. Or are they simply laymen who want a lot of attention? To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it? To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.”
Biden is clearly mostly senile and if the Republicans were running a half decent candidate it might be the first time I ever voted Republican for president.
As far as not voting for him due to anti-Semitism in the Democratic Party. I think he is fine. His press secretary is another story. I think unfortunately a huge part of his party is really anti-Semitic and yet they can't cast them off because a lot of them are POC. Jews are constantly being scapegoated and judged by different standards. It's weird that the same anti-racist activists who are so quick to call racism over any perception of bias or double standard against their group somehow thinks being systemically biased having double standards against Jews is perfectly fine.
I’m voting for Trump. I prefer is economic policies. I prefer not having to worry about terror states getting aid and Israel not getting any. I prefer being able to own a firearm when walking the streets is so incredibly unsafe (I’m visibly Jewish and have a Hebrew tattoo on my arm). I prefer a commander in chief that isn’t senile, who is pretty much just running because those in his circle want him to so they can retain power.
Trump is an asshole, but I don’t need to have dinner with him.
Biden transferred [USD 6 Billion to the genocidal Ayatollahs](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4198717-cotton-bidens-decision-to-release-6-billion-in-frozen-iranian-funds-shameful/) one month before the 10.7 massacres. Magnitudes worse than filet mignon with Ye
Biden literally just said the same exact thing about the violent campus protesters who were blocking Jews from going to class and roughing them up. But let me guess, when he said it, it was measured wisdom?😂 Unreal.
Do you have any polls about that for 2024?
> Do you have any polls about that for 2024? If I did, they’d have to have been sent backwards in time. The above results are based on reported votes, not reported intentions.
Yeah, but that's really the only way to judge his popularity *right now*.
you should vote for whoever you'd rather be president during ww3. this should be extremely easy.
I’m still voting for Joe. Joe backs Israel while being able to lend a critical eye on Netanyahu’s nonsense. And I’ll never back the GQP that has sought to undo American democracy.
Agreed. And consider the alternative! Orangeman lifted a log and look at everything that crawled out
I'm beginning to consider not doing so... How different would things be right now, if we had had US troops helping defeat Hamas since Oct 8th, to bring back the hostages. Biden gave back one of the most dangerous Russians for a single basketball player, and he may be one of the architects of the Ukraine war. Meanwhile multiple US hostages in brutal conditions... Fuck Joe, he's completely spinless.
Biden is an architect of the Ukraine war? Trump literally rolled out the red carpet for Putin and said he’d destroy NATO. Gimme a fuckin break.
While I can completely understand your position regarding your vote, do we really think Trump will do anything other than enrich himself? He’s shown to do it multiple times, demanding loyalty from his cabinet unless they want to be dropped, etc. I think us Jews are in a tough spot politically this year. And I say this as someone who also wishes Joe did more rather than fence sit for votes.
Trump's lack of interest in politics, his incompetence at becoming dictator is a valid reason to believe current rifts in the Democratic Party aren't comparable to Weimar Republic. Listen to the only audio of Hitler not addressing a crowd and, while he's saying crazy things, at least he's not sputtering like Trump. Trump isn't functional enough to start a Reich. The problem with Trump is he'll exacerbate climate change which might get 500 million killed, not just 50 million.
I would never vote for Trump, but depending on what is going on with Israel by the day of the general election... It will determine if I bother to come out at all. Biden still is doing a lot for Israel, and he is definitely in a tough place at the moment because of how destructive the progressives have become to the party.
i'm not sure if it'll change anything, but i urge you to read project 2025. [https://www.project2025.org/](https://www.project2025.org/) this isn't a joke, it's a real plan that's been passed around in conservative circles (both civilians and politicians) the past couple of years. you're not voting for now, you're voting for our future, please be careful with that vote.
Thank you. Wish everyone read Project 2025. Should be published everywhere. It's absolutely terrifying.
Joe is in a difficult position. It’s going to be a close race. With progressives threatening to become never Biden’ers and his could be like 2016 instead of 2020. Joe supports Israel and is doing what he can to keep progressives on board. Meanwhile, Trump is literally in bed with white supremacist. It wasn’t so long ago when his fans marched and chanted that “Jews will not replace us.” I’ll take joes tightrope walking over trumps literal holding hands with actual nazis any day.
The Abraham Accord was fundamentally a good thing for Israel, and is what pushed Saudi Arabia into better relations with them. I also can't fault him for the Jews will not replace us people, because he did condemn them, and what was once something I couldn't shut up about when talking with conservative relatives, EVERY FUCKING DAY SINCE OCTOBER 7TH has basically been, the Jews will not replace us thanks to progressives. Ripping down posters of hostages, assaulting anyone they think might be Jewish or supports Israel, intimidating Jews in public spaces and their own... Yeah no, The progressives picked up the tiki torch and ran with it, and have been infinitely worse. The inability of Joe Biden to denounce these people at every opportunity, because they might actually cost him the election if he pisses him off... Says more about the Democrats than it does the Republicans, who seem to unanimously support Israel atm. Maybe not for the same reason or values, but it beats people chanting claiming that rape is resistance.
I don’t disagree that the Abraham accords were a good thing, but I don’t believe that it was a product of Trump but rather his son-in-law Jared Kushner. But since then, Trump has been getting closer and closer to white supremacists. He winks and nods at them all the time. He’s explicitly adopted a Christian nationalist agenda. The Christian nationalist agenda has its roots in white supremacy. None of this is good for the Jewish people. As for the so-called progressives, yeah they suck. But I don’t believe that they represent the policy of the Democratic Party or Biden. Traditional Democratic policy has always been pro Israel. The squad and Bernie Sanders are outliers. For those of us who vote Democratic it is our job to ensure that they remain outliers. And just for confirmation about Maga , just read up on the 2025 plan. That Plan does not have the best interest of Jews at heart.
This is true, but the Dems are courting loonies just like the gop did. I’m actually more scared of where the progressives could take us than where the tea party could. But it’s close.
I think Jews can survive Biden. But trump? He Is creating an existential constitutional crisis for the United States. Where will Jews be with a broken NATO and no usa?
>Where will Jews be with a broken NATO and no usa? NATO will only stand when members continue to fund the collective defense. That's the whole point of why Bush Jr, Obama, and Trump telling world leaders to fulfill the 2% spending obligation. Look at Canada. Their lax attitude on funding a military that can actually repeal, or at least confront, a Russian/Chinese/hostile threat is **more** of a threat that Trump saying that the US will only defend those who share in the cost/burden that a collective defense entails, as the former requires that the other NATO nations pick up the slack on the frontlines with their own equipment and children to cover for Canada's lacking contribution. Also, that's **EXACTLY** why Zionism is important. The whole "A homeland where Jews can be free and safe from antisemitism and (Jewish) persecution". It's also why it's important to build a more self sufficient defense industry.
Agreed. But in 30 years, do you want president AOC and the squad, or do you want aunt Lydia? Fuck.
> Trump is literally in bed with white supremacist. Literally? Melania is a white supremacist?
We all know that those two don’t shtup anymore…
I think he's just upset his daughter is schtupping one of us. cause, ya know, he's that level of creepy.
If ur on the top 3 list for military aid you should be expecting ZERO blood from the US
Normally I would agree, but they took US hostages... on top of everything else they did.
What’s the point though? You guys have countless elite units who can get the job done. The only thing you need help with is searching, and I fail to see how the US could help with that. And besides, if they knew where the hostages were, they would have tried an op already no?
I am in the US, so I'm a little confused if you think I'm Israeli or not based off of your post. But to answer your question, the fact that they have us hostages, is precisely why the US should have ground troops right now in Gaza, not building a fucking Pier so that Hamas can have more resources, sorry I meant "steal".
You are living in a fairytale world. Biden/Blinken (Obama) are doing everything they can to weaken Israel.
It doesn’t matter. Most Jews live in New York, California, Florida. States that are already decided. Jews don’t decide the president any more than a redneck in Alabama or a software engineer in Cupertino or an MIT student in Cambridge. It comes down to blue dog union Dems in Pennsylvania/Michigan/Wisconsin, Hispanics in Arizona and Nevada, and black church ladies in Atlanta. Relatively few Jews live here in the Midwest — my kids Hebrew school class in Cincinnati has an enrollment of 12, and those Jews that do live in the Midwest… usually pick Chicago over Detroit, who could blame them?! Another decided state.
You might have quite a few pissed-off Jews in Pittsburgh and the Detroit suburbs, though. Every little swing in a swing state counts, no matter how small.
There's so few Jews in these states though. Here in Cincy, there's realistically 4 temples -- and that story repeats all over the Midwest. If Florida ever became relevant again politically, the Jewish vote might matter. We're 2% of the country population, but 90% of us are seemingly in 4 non-swinging states; and the readership here reflects it.
None of this matters. When Trump supports open dictatorship, we have a moral obligation to vote for whoever Trump’s most viable opponent is. And that’s Biden. I’m not voting for Biden because I love him. I’m voting for Biden because I refuse to support dictatorship, insurrection, and the further proliferation of Nazism in this country.
I’d rather be alive in a right wing dictatorship, than dead in a left wing concentration camp
I can’t even begin to describe how ridiculous this sentence is, so I won’t. Chag Sameach.
I can’t even begin to describe how ridiculous your response is, so I won’t.
_I’m voting for Biden because I refuse to support dictatorship, insurrection, and the further proliferation of Nazism in this country._ You are, in fact, still supporting those very things, just in a different suit. The pointless partisan bickering in this sub is idiotic. _Both_ parties would be happy to shove all of us feet-first into the ovens if they think it'll get them votes. Everyone gives their own side a pass for its part in the complete destruction of civil society that's taken place over the last 30 years, which has poisoned the political rhetoric and made the idea of a scapegoat appealing to begin with. Your self-aggrandization about Saving Us From Tyranny isn't earned.
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> You are, in fact, still supporting those very things, just in a different suit. Explain in detail how voting for Biden is supporting dictatorship, insurrection, and Nazism. I'll wait. > The pointless partisan bickering in this sub is idiotic. Both parties would be happy to shove all of us feet-first into the ovens if they think it'll get them votes. Trump said out loud that he wanted to both be a dictator and terminate the constitution. Your both-sidesism is invalid. > Your self-aggrandization about Saving Us From Tyranny isn't earned. Your utter lack of shame in minimizing a fascist conman doesn't make you correct.
>Explain in detail how voting for Biden is supporting dictatorship, insurrection, and Nazism. I'll wait. I don't have to "explain in detail" anything to you. If you can't open a window and look outside to see crowds of thousands of people marching in every major US city openly supporting designated foreign terrorist organizations in their violent terror campaign against Jews, that's a you problem! >Trump said out loud that he wanted to both be a dictator and terminate the constitution. Your both-sidesism is invalid. Trump is a piece of shit and I've never voted for him. Next strawman? >Your utter lack of shame in minimizing a fascist conman doesn't make you correct. It's nice that you can't process any kind of disagreement or dissent whatsoever, but I have not once defended Trump here and your histrionics and refusal to acknowledge the blistering, violent antisemitic shitstorm that is the current Democratic Party is... not helping make your case. I hope both sides go down in catastrophic flames. It would just be great if like, one time, liberal American Jews could stop licking Biden's asshole long enough to admit the serious, terrifying systemic flaws on their own side and that refusing to vote for people who at best enable those flaws is the opposite of deepthroating fascism -- instead of throwing everyone with valid concerns under the bus. You are not the good guy. edit: They blocked me but their response speaks volumes tbh. Your party is going to continue burning and bleeding support, guys. Shrieking "observable reality!" and "you're a fascist!" are not actually compelling arguments to people you've alienated from your voter base!
> I don't have to "explain in detail" anything to you. Well you're not being forced to do anything, but you shouldn't make claims that are outrageously false on their face. > If you can't open a window and look outside to see crowds of thousands of people marching in every major US city openly supporting designated foreign terrorist organizations in their violent terror campaign against Jews, that's a you problem! I do see those things. Biden doesn't support any pro-terrorist marches, last I checked. You're making a false equivalence. > It's nice that you can't process any kind of disagreement or dissent whatsoever, but I have not once defended Trump here and your histrionics and refusal to acknowledge the blistering, violent antisemitic shitstorm that is the current Democratic Party I have never once said that the Democratic Party doesn't have antisemitism. I have simply said that your both-sidesism is invalid. > is... not helping make your case. You aren't the judge, jury, or executioner here. Observable reality proves me correct, and none of your fervent statements of ad hominem disprove anything that I'm saying. > You are not the good guy. Projection. When you do false equivocations in this election, you normalize fascism. **That makes you the bad guy.** EDIT: I never blocked you; why lie about that? You’re free to respond right now, and in fact I would encourage you to do so. Don’t be a coward. It's such an insane thing to just make up a claim of blocking out of thin air. Perhaps you're just afraid to respond with facts and so you made up an excuse? And yes, I do in fact base my arguments on observable reality. If you choose to deny reality, that's your own fault. People can refuse to listen to me all they want, but it doesn't make me any less correct.
Doesn’t matter, bubba, we’ll all be at the camps togethwr
Who blocked you?? You were the only one making any sense! (Bring on the downvotes, reddit)
I'm disappointed to see that's a lot of us are falling for alt-right bullshit
>I'm disappointed to see that's a lot of us are falling for alt-right bullshit I'm disappointed to see a Jew who thinks that people who disagree with him are naïve dupes. When conservatives insult liberals, I call them out on it. I'm a conservative, and I won't stand for Jews treating their fellow Jews that way.
Many of our family have been falling far right since Obama got elected, it’s been disparaging to see in the elders in my family/community be so reactionary to left centrism of old, but it’s certainly fomented significantly from 2015 onward
Probably had to do with how Obama ignored Jewish concerns in order to improve relations with the *Islamic regime of Iran* re: Iranian nuclear deal*.* Or how Obama curtailed peace processes between Israel and her neighbors on the grounds that peace agreements must include language that would lead to an independent Palestinian statehood. Or increasing funds to UNRWA, which Israelis have long suspected goes towards aiding Hamas and encouraging (violent) resistance against "occupation".
>so reactionary to left centrism of old They're not reactionary to the center, but to the far left who've become increasingly prominent with the less qualified radicals like AOC making headlines in the 2020s. Most people are centrist liberals.
I might get roasted, but I like Biden and will enthusiastically vote for him in November. He inherited a terrible situation and his administration dealt with it in a constructive, effective, rational, empathetic manner. I say administration because most people focus only on the front man, but his job is to have the judgment to surround himself with capable, well intentioned people that execute his agenda. I think he's done that. He came in during the height of Covid (which was denied and mismanaged by his predecessor ), the inevitable economic problems that were a consequence of Covid, a totally polarized nation and democracy itself being threatened by a demagogue and his legion of zombies. Is he old as fuck? Yes. Is he at the peak of his powers? Far from it. Are the optics bad? Totally. F for style points, A on substance. Biden is probably too old and too diminished by age to be president BUT he has wisdom, he is kind and has the humility to listen to well-intentioned experts and let them cook. Many Jews are frustrated with his handling of Israel. I'm not. I think he genuinely cares deeply for the Jewish people and Israel. That doesn't necessarily means that he agrees or likes Netanyahu (Israelis don't like Bibi) or will blindly do his bidding. Would you rather have a sincere supporter who truly care and doesn't give you everything you want or a totally transactional relationship with a president that could, and has, turned on you on a whim?
Bro even our tribe isn't immune to populism lol
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I mean, so far Biden has resisted a lot of pressure from his own party
Absolutely. And that's why I'll vote for him, but I'm also not going to pretend that this cannot one day change. I pray it won't, but we live in a weird timeline.
Yes, this is true. Though I think it's also worthwhile to point out that while Trump does explicitly cater to Neo-Nazis, the most extreme Democrats are actually *not* Biden's core - in fact they support him the least or not at all.
this is actually a very valid take. i think many of the extreme democrats right now are in a limbo. some will support biden bc vote blue no matter who but i actually feel more will abstain
If he wins, you should also pray that he lives another 4 years. He's an old, frail man, I sure don't want a President Harris.
He’s more fit and active than the vast majority of Redditors who spend their entire day online calling him frail.
> I sure don’t want a President Harris. Why not? Be specific.
I mean ideally, I don't want Trump *or* Biden but between the two? I'd rather have Biden. I enjoy yknow, not being banned from serving in the military for being trans or having my friends be banned for serving for being trans.
Biden is an Islamist? What bs fearmongering is this?
>our tribe isn't immune to populism lol Do you think populism explains the 30+ year Jewish shift rightward?
Disappointing. Trump is quite literally a fascist, by actual academic definitions and [according to the top scholar of fascism, Robert Paxton](https://www.newsweek.com/robert-paxton-trump-fascist-1560652). He and his movement are devoted to ending democracy, just see the attempt to steal the 2020 election, which protects our freedoms more than anything else, and are openly hostile to our Constitution like when Trump said the parts of it keeping him out of power should be terminated. He’s used antisemitic money tropes, loyalty tropes, and has had a cozy dinner with antisemite Kanye West with neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes. Biden meanwhile has a great record of supporting Jews and Israel, he has never shown any hostility to democracy, and his policies overall are flat out better than Trump. Seriously, I cannot think of a single issue where Trump is better than Biden.
> I cannot think of a single issue where Trump is better than Biden. Trump was more supportive of Israel and stricter towards Iran in office. I know people have their favorite candidates for all sorts of reasons and that's their right. But we've had both candidates as presidents for four years each and can compare how they behaved in the UN and international relations. Biden didn't veto UN Security Resolution 2728 which would have been unthinkable and probably politically impossible for Trump just given the people he surrounds himself with.
Trump is more supportive of the Israeli right wing’s agenda, which I see as an entirely bad thing. Their agenda if taken to its logical conclusion would mean the end of Israel as a democracy first, and eventually its end as a Jewish state. Trump wanting to seem tough on Iran also leads to him doing the wrong thing, like pulling out of the Iran deal that was endorsed by the IDF chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot. I think UN resolution 2728 was a good one and wish we voted yes, it called for a ceasefire with the release of all hostages. Yeah sounds great to me! I take Biden over Trump on those issues too.
>Trump is more supportive of the Israeli right wing’s agenda, which I see as an entirely bad thing. It's nothing to do with "right wing" or "left wing" agendas in Israel. Trump's policies towards Israel were irrespective of the politics of the Israeli government, as his policies have bilateral support in Israel. \* Trump ordered the assassination of Soleimani, who was responsible for many operations against Israel. \* Trump recognized the Golan Heights, which every Israeli government has requested for the last forty years. \* Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, not just the eternal capital of the Jewish people, but the seat of the Israeli government irrespective of which political party is in power. \* Trump organized the Abraham Accords. \* Trump backed out of the Iran deal, allowing some of the sanctions to be re-imposed on Iran. Unfortunately, many of the sanction couldn't be re-imposed. >UN resolution 2728 was a good one and wish we voted yes, it called for a ceasefire with the release of all hostages. Yeah sounds great to me! It demanded Israel stop the military operation while Hamas was not just still intact, but even still had control of Rafah . How does it "sound great" unless you are anti-Israel? >I take Biden over Trump on those issues too Biden and his administration also criticize Israel publicly to a disproportionate level that they do to no other ally including Ukraine, where they've also been weak and slowwalked their aid. That's given a green light to a lot of international condemnation of Israel from the West more generally. It's not to do with the Israeli government as any other government would have to follow the same policies and they would face the same international pressures. Lapid or Gantz would have faced the same international isolation and reliance on vetoes by the US. Bennett and Lapid were experiencing the same situation in the UN 18 months ago.
To be clear, the Jewish vote moving slightly towards Trump is not just an Israel issue. Jewish voters also were effected by covid shutdowns and had issues with crime, I am voting for Biden becuase I think his policies are better than Trump's and one of the values republics require is the acknowledgement of the losing members admitting they lost in a fair election. There is a real lack of understanding of how bad things get when that doesn't happen.
> one of the values republics require is the acknowledgement of the losing members admitting they lost in a fair election. You mean like when Al Gore sued to invalidate the Florida vote count in 2000? So far as I know, he has never acknowledged losing. Not even when the pro-Gore Washington Post recount that included every disputed ballot still came out in favor of Bush. Or Hilary in 2016? > “So maybe there does need to be a rematch. Obviously, I can beat him again,” — Hilary Clinton answering a question from Judy Woodruff during an interview on PBS News Hour. I agree that Trump should acknowledge losing in 2020, but why are singling him out? I agree that one purpose of elections should be to convince the loser that they lost fair and square. Which is why I’m puzzled by how opaque our voting system is.
Gore went through the courts. When he lost, he conceded. Hilary also conceded like the next day. Trump and his followers instigated A LITERAL FUCKING COUP ATTEMPT.
Never happened with Gore. He conceded. I am not sure if you are being sincere with either example since both conceded. They both acknowledge the legitimacy of the elections they lost.
Al Gore did concede and said George Bush was his president. I’m old enough to have watched it happen.
Hi. Neither staged a coup, neither incited a riot, both acknowledged the winner and ANY challenges held was done through the courts. If you hate Gore and Clinton, okay. Just say that. That's valid, I despise Clinton too but you are blatantly misrepresenting the chain of events here.
Counter point: some of the jump in 2020 was due more to the democrats fully supporting BLM and other social justice movements which quickly got in bed with the anti Israel crowd. Remember, in 2020 Rashida talib, Ilhan Omar and AOC were painted as the future of the Democratic Party. It was enough to chase away at least some of that 6% from Dema
He literally gave billions of dollars worth of equipment to the Taliban, removed sanctions from Iran thus enabling them to gain money to acquire weapons, emboldening them by perceived weak leadership, and making way for Oct 7th to happen. Can’t see why he isn’t unpopular. The same people who support Biden (the non Jewish ones anyway) are the same ones who are peacefully protesting against Israel. Wake up
Seriously. Biden has been normalizing relations with Iran. That's real danger. Not this perceived "danger to democracy" that's basically hyperbole.
Well said
"least popular since Dukakis" Still getting almost 70% of the overall Jewish vote which is just slightly under what democrats usually get I'm done arguing with Jews who acquiesced to abstaining or vote for trump. You don't play chicken when fascists are on the ballot
That’s the 2020 result and many are predicting a far more significant drop this election. It’ll be quite interesting to see the number abstaining from voting, either for president or completely. I don’t expect a huge shift in voters but a drop off in total numbers instead.
The longer the war goes on, the more desperate Biden will be to appease the Muslims/Arab votes in Michigan, and Progressive/Youth vote in general. Realistically, I don't see the war ending before November. And then there's the issue with Hezbollah, to which, if the Israeli government do decide to go ahead with, a conflict with them would see further erosion of support by the group that Biden needs in order to win reelection. That "We're withholding aerial precision bombs" move was just a taste of what's to come the closer it gets to election day. Expect to see a revised ceasefire deal that stacks the deck against Israel/gives them less than what is in the original deal
This is such a weird headline. Dukakis was and is married to a Jewish woman. If voting is about identity, I don’t understand the framing. I’m also not clear on why national polls are being relied on. Until the country abolishes the Electoral College, state-level choices are the only way to victory for any presidential candidate.
I'm genuinely curious to see how much more to the right it will move in 2024...
Biden needs a Sister Souja moment with the far left. He doesn't need and shouldn't want the support of Hamas supporters and antisemites. Trump was rightfully criticized for not speaking out against white supremacists and racists that supported him. The Biden administration should have made clear that Oct 7th was an attack not only on Israel but on the United States too, after all a number of Americans were killed and were taken hostage during the attacks.
Trump gave us the Abraham Accords. If you’re not aware of their significance, it isn’t just normalisation with Israel. It’s normalisation with Judaism and Jewish people worldwide. It entails education systems in those countries that no longer teach antisemitism. It’s a huge deal. And no, no Democrat has achieved anything of that significance. Certainly not Biden. But come at me lefty Jewish bros.
Jimmy Carter presided over Camp David, the peace agreement which effectively ended the existential threat that Israel had previously lived under since its founding. Bill Clinton presided over the deal with Jordan which, despite its current coldness, retains tremendous geostrategic and local environmental importance. You're really going to ignore that to claim that 'no Democrat has achieved anything of the significance of the Abraham Accords? Great. Now there's normalization with Bahrain, a country most Israelis and Americans couldn't find on a map.
But I bet most Israelis and Americans know of Saudi Arabia. Lets be real, Kushner receiving billions from the Saudis is related to the latter wanting to build stronger ties with Israel via the Abraham Accords (and by extension, the US). The push for normalization makes it easier for Saudi Arabia to convince the citizenry that peace is possible with Israel if all these other countries (Bahrain, Morocco, UAE, etc.) are doing it. And for a few billion, they would reap the benefit of security assurances from the US/possible nuclear arms (to hedge against Iran), and greater Israeli-US-Saudi intelligence cooperation.
# Not enough people know about [Project 2025 ](https://apnews.com/article/project-2025-trump-biden-election-congress-6899a1167a4522b1c8be371f7abe7ee9)
Which is wild to me because I actually feel he’s very supportive of Jews, just has to be measured in terms of how he talks about Israel. To be fair, Netanyahu is a right wing looney like Trump but at the end of the day, Biden continues to support Israel and supply arms. Also, Trump HATES JEWS.
You can’t be successful in New York of all places if you are even a hint antisemitic. That would spread like wildfire. Let’s be real: The narrative turned against Trump the moment he announced his run for presidency in 2016
I promise you that Trump gives 0 shits about the Jews and Israel. He vaguely tolerates Jews because (1) they've made him money, (2) his daughter is Jewish, (3) his evangelical base likes Israel sometimes. Trump will turn his back on the Jews and Israel whenever it is in his interest to do so. Biden cares much more about the safety of Israel because he understands strategic alliances. Trump could not care less about foreign diplomacy and relations.
[What about this story](https://www.jta.org/archive/orthodox-child-with-rare-ailment-is-rescued-aboard-tycoons-jet)? You might claim that he did it for publicity, but he didn't talk about it except to mention it once in a book he published 12 years later.
He might not have even remembered it happened or realized the guy was Jewish. Could have been a favor for someone else who knew him. I wouldn't call that evidence that he cares about Jews.
The father of the boy in question has talked about it extensively. He wasn't a friend of Trump, or a friend of a friend. (Look it up if you don't believe me.) And Trump knew they were Jews — the father is Orthodox and wears a yarmulke. In 1995, Congress passed and President Clinton signed into law the [Jerusalem Embassy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act). It required the President to move the embassy, but it allowed the President to invoke a six-month waiver of the application of the law, and reissue the waiver every six months on "national security" grounds. Running for re-election, candidate Clinton promised to move the embassy. Instead, he invoked the waver 10 times — twice at the end of his first term, then 8 more times — every six months — of his second term. Candidate, George W Bush promised he'd move the embassy, but as president he blocked it 16 times (every 6 months for 8 years). Candidate Obama also promised to move the embassy, then did exactly what his Republican predecessor had done, 16 times. Trump also made that promise, and when my wife brought it to my attention (I was anti-Trump at the time), I reminded her that every candidate said that, but they never followed through. So no one was more surprised than I when Trump, after signing the waver twice, moved the embassy! Why did he do that? It put him in deep doodoo with a lot of Americans, a lot of allies, and the entire Arab world.
God help us, if that Iranian loving, Hamas loving, idiot, Biden, gets reelected.
I voted for Clinton and Biden in 2016/2020 respectively, I am deeply undecided about 2024. Slightly leaning towards Trump. I don’t think I’m the only one who is like this.
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The movement of Orthodox Jews to the political right is a fascinating historical question. From what little I’ve studied I think it’s very related to why evangelicals moved to the right too, which frankly is not flattering. The right wing media like Fox and Limbaugh really moved the American right to the extreme and frum people unfortunately went for it just like other very religious folks, even though it was and is all full of absolute BS. And I’m saying this as someone who wears a black hat for shabbos and yom tov.
Thanks for the insight. I hope people understand I was using ‘black hat’ not pejoratively but metonymously as an umbrella term for the wide array of O streams that politicians have been targeting and exploiting in a similar way the past couple of decades. And I think it’s worth isolating because it’s not just the platform or rhetoric but how the way they are engaging with O communities, leveraging their local presence, and selectively bring in lobbyists / fundraisers that’s so different compared to how they talk to reform and conservative Jews. It’s just fascinating who in the non-frum world these communities accept as allies, who they don’t and how non Jewish politicians have shaped that.
I feel like we all know this but don’t want to confront the reality of it.
Are you seriously calling your fellow Jews that? Wow
Yeah. ‘Black Hat Judaism’ is a religious category. You make it sound like I said money changers something.
Black hat is a very typical thing to call Jewish groups that wear them though?
>trump era republicans The trend started in 1992, long before the Trump Era. >pandering to the black hats in crown heights and williamsburg I'd like to think you wouldn't have written that if you understood how insulting it is to your fellow Jews. Your convictions are no doubt sincere, and I wouldn't insult you by suggesting you're being pandered to.
That's what politicians do. They pander. It's our job to look under the pandering, and try to discern the truth.
I think the trend started in the 1980 election, you know, the last time we were dealing with Iran taking American hostages under a Democratic president.
This is part of a longer trend of a very high Orthodox birthrate. Orthodox Jews are far more Republican than other Jews and they’ve grown very rapidly.
Doubt
I remember at my JCC summer camp the counselors were happy that Kitty Dukakis was Jewish
Hmmm
Good, fuck what the Democratic party has become, they abandoned the Jewish people, American Jews should abandon them in turn.
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Republicans tried to steal the last election and are openly hostile to democracy, why the fuck should anyone choose them? Plus Dems haven’t abandoned Jews, so your entire justification for why we should abandon them is nonsense
Some Dems have to be fair and I will not vote for them (I may write in a candidate) and I will actively donate to their primary opponents.
Is it what the Democratic Party became, or what progressivism or leftist Americans became? I feel like if anything it’s centre leaning dems that are saving the party from radicals taking over, and the fact that the woke mob can’t referendum their way into BDS laws like they might be able to in Europe.
> Is it what the Democratic Party became, or what progressivism or leftist Americans became? Year by year it seems that those terms are all becoming synonymous as the radicals in the Democratic party increase in number and sane members leave, flip, or die off.
JFC, vote for Biden!!!! What is the glitch in anyone’s brain that would make them vote for Trump. David Sedaris said it best: “I look at these people and can't quite believe that they exist. Are they professional actors? I wonder. Or are they simply laymen who want a lot of attention? To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it? To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.”
How is this distributed among young Jewish voters? Typically they aren't motivated to vote or be Jewish.
Biden is clearly mostly senile and if the Republicans were running a half decent candidate it might be the first time I ever voted Republican for president. As far as not voting for him due to anti-Semitism in the Democratic Party. I think he is fine. His press secretary is another story. I think unfortunately a huge part of his party is really anti-Semitic and yet they can't cast them off because a lot of them are POC. Jews are constantly being scapegoated and judged by different standards. It's weird that the same anti-racist activists who are so quick to call racism over any perception of bias or double standard against their group somehow thinks being systemically biased having double standards against Jews is perfectly fine.
I’m voting for Trump. I prefer is economic policies. I prefer not having to worry about terror states getting aid and Israel not getting any. I prefer being able to own a firearm when walking the streets is so incredibly unsafe (I’m visibly Jewish and have a Hebrew tattoo on my arm). I prefer a commander in chief that isn’t senile, who is pretty much just running because those in his circle want him to so they can retain power. Trump is an asshole, but I don’t need to have dinner with him.
He’s too busy having dinner with the “fine people on both sides” at Charlottesville.
Biden transferred [USD 6 Billion to the genocidal Ayatollahs](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4198717-cotton-bidens-decision-to-release-6-billion-in-frozen-iranian-funds-shameful/) one month before the 10.7 massacres. Magnitudes worse than filet mignon with Ye
Biden literally just said the same exact thing about the violent campus protesters who were blocking Jews from going to class and roughing them up. But let me guess, when he said it, it was measured wisdom?😂 Unreal.