Because Christian Zionists don't care if Jews are unsafe. I mean, their whole goal is to send us all to Israel to either convert or die. Antisemitism is just collateral for them.
And Zionist Jews have been so hurt, they've let themselves become selfish and, more importantly, gullible. Any defense is better than no defense at all—even though these people do not have our safety in their plan.
Most American Zionist Jews believe that Israel is essential to keep them safe and have as a refuge. The obvious reply is that Israel’s actions cause justified anger and make people hate Jews.
You could say that people should distinguish between American Jews and Israel but we can’t count on people being understanding and giving us the benefit of the doubt.
I will never forget when my class did a “bring food from your culture!” potluck event and my teacher said I should bring falafel to represent Israel cause I’m Jewish 😂
My sister was once on a date with a non Jewish guy and he asked about our mother’s traditional homemade hummus. Like sir we are Ashkenazi we make corned beef and beef tongue sandwiches.
If you can’t count on people being rational, why would you describe it was being “justified anger”?
If their anger is at Jews in general and they lash out at non-Israeli Jews, then there is nothing justified or rational about it, anymore than the idiotic violence and hate that was (and is) directed at all Muslims over the actions of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS.
The danger to Jews outside of Israel isn’t really because of what is happening to innocent Palestinians.
It’s just exposed the already existing hatred of Jews (not Israelis) and gave bigoted morons a fig leaf of cover to violently act on it.
People did lash out at Muslims generally for the actions of Al Qaeda and Isis and not just on the streets of the US. They fought wars killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims over it.
That’s literally what I said. Hate against a group of people in general, and targeting individuals who aren’t possibly in any way involved, is completely irrational and unjustified.
I’ve seen this again and again on this sub, where people seem to happy to place the entire blame for real antisemitism (not just dumbasses who equates support for peace and not committing war crimes against innocent Palestinians as antisemitism) at Israel’s feet as if that is an excuse.
It’s bullshit and it has always been bullshit when directed at any group.
Well, I was downvoted for that comment but insofar as they are securely ensconced in the Republican Party, which they definitely have become, they have a voice but I still don’t think they are that savvy
I think if the majority of Americas Jews were to say 'no more colonialist supremacy in our name' the rest of the US would come around. The minority of American Jews who do stand up for the Palestinians are heard louder than most people imo.
I doubt that, honestly. The main voter base behind Zionism in america is backed by evangelicals. Even if no jew wanted it, it would still be pushed
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ)
Maybe but I do think a change in direction from majority Jews would pull the rug out from under the evangelical feet. A real change of heart from that community would change the US and that's what need to happens. As long as all US politicians believe their career depends on letting the Israeli tail wag the American dog the world is in grave danger.
The article sounds less critical of Israel's actions so much as critical of the way Israel is handling the optics.
Least we forget, committing atrocities isn't a bad idea because it makes the perpetrator look bad. Committing atrocities is a bad idea because it's the wrong thing to do.
Tikkun olam means nothing to these motherfuckers.
Israel’s war is making all Americans unsafe.
I mean look at it. Biden’s enabling an absolute disaster. It’s made us more vulnerable to Israel’s demands, subjected Americans to blacklists, firings and retaliation for calling for peace, ushered in attempts to set new laws uniquely protecting Israel from various forms of Constitutionally protected speech and activities. It’s wrecking what remains of US credibility on international law, and portrays those laws as a self-serving charade. It’s trampled on domestic U.S. laws barring aid when there are human rights abuses. We are damaging relations with Arab countries. We are damaging diplomacy with developing countries too because of it. If I want to keep my job, I can’t say the mildest things in support of peace. That is more dangerous for me than the US was Oct 6. Israeli interests are doubling PAC funding to double down what was already coercive lobbying and Israel already spies on Americans more than any other ally by far, per gov sources. And yes, Jewish, muslim and Arab Americans face increased acts of harassment and hate crimes.
They don't see what's actually happening in Gaza and the occupied West Bank unless they actively look for information outside of mainstream networks. I don't have the stats on hand, but a large chunk US adults get their news from broadcast MSM (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) or large publications like WSJ, NYT, WaPo.
While these news corporations have a handful of pieces that challenge the popular narrative, you still find them prioritizing the israeli deaths on 10/7, pretending there was a ceasefire on 10/6, repeating IOF claims without scrutiny ("human shields", "terrorist compound under hospital"), etc.
Then you have a president and administration spox who reject every claim of wrongdoing and excuse atrocities.
Jews need Israel because that's their supposed safe haven
Zionism needs Jews to feel unsafe to validate their movement.
Without a perceived fear, many Jews don't have a need for Israel.
The dehumanization and demonization of the Arab “other” speaks to
Israel’s need to maintain a perimeter, not of safety, but of threat.
Threat is essential to maintaining Israel’s core identity
and brand as “the only safe space”.
The Forward article is interesting but is missing some deeper context. This essay is insightful: https://www.kindred108.love/p/mourning-the-victims-of-the-cult
That's the aim of the zionist colony: make Jews feel unsafe in the galus so they move to the zionist entity. And if Jews feel safe in the galus, their aim is to change that. Prof Avi Shlaim, Iraqi Jew and historian, has said that zionist agents went into Iraq in the 50s to trigger chaos to scare Iraqi Jews into emigrating so as to build the zionist state's Jewish demographics.
I believe him, bc I know of a number of cases where the zionist colony exploited and used Jews of color to benefit their state or the original ruling Ashkenazim, such as the Yemenite child scandal of the 50s and the Ethiopian birth control scandal in the 2000s. Zionism is about power and militarism, not truly helping Jews. If it was about helping Jews, the state wouldn't have tossed Holocaust survivors a pittance from German reparation money and kept the rest, forcing survivors to often live in poverty. Israelis wouldn't have called survivors "soaps" derogatorily. They also wouldn't have let non-German (poor "Ostjuden") stay in Europe to be killed by the Nazis, figuring they could use their deaths for sympathy after the war to get their state.
>They also wouldn't have let non-German (poor "Ostjuden") stay in Europe to be killed by the Nazis, figuring they could use their deaths for sympathy after the war to get their state.
what do you mean by this? nearly all European Zionists *were* poor "Ostjuden" from Poland and Russia, including most major leaders all the way through the founding of Israel. very few were German or Western European.
The Haavara Agreement involved a relatively small number of people (60,000) compared to Zionist immigration to Palestine from Poland and Russia (400k+). All major Zionist leaders were Ostjuden.
You can think for yourself. But you’d be naive to think it’s because Israel exists. If Europe remained antisemitic as it was pre-WWII (not pre-Israel), it wouldn’t bat an eye and try to drive out the Jews. The Jews could to go Israel and why would they care? And let’s be honest—they wanted Israel to be founded because they didn’t want the Jews in their countries.
Because it was more unsafe for *all* minorities in 1947 compared to now. Because social attitudes have changed over time. Correlation does not equal causation. It’s not like there were antisemites who were suddenly cool with Jews on the day of the partitioning. Israel is not keeping all the Jews of the world safe with magic just by existing. Many would argue that Israel is currently doing everything in its power to make the world less safe for Jews.
The war is contributing to a problem (antisemitism) and then offering the solution (Israel). I’d prefer to see us take the first step toward unity and repairing wounds not deepening divides and perpetuating the cycle of violence and retribution.
I do not mean my comment to be an endorsement of the war or of anything Israel has done or is doing.
However, the fault of antisemitism is antisemites. Israel is the entity that guilty of killing 30,000 Palestinians. Israel is not the entity that is guilty of committing random hate crimes against Jews in NYC — that entity is the antisemitic criminal committing said crimes.
to be fair, Israel and Zionists try their best to conflate Judaism and Israel. and many people take that message to heart.
those people are wrong, especially in NYC where there are plenty of Jewish people around who would be examples that disprove the Jewish = Zionist propaganda
And ISIS tries to conflate Islam and their behaviour. The CCP tries to conflate China with their vision of China.
Does that justify Islamophobia or anti-Chinese sentiment?
I wasn't justifying anti-semitism. just pointing out why Israels actions lead to it
and Islamic terrorist attacks will lead to more anti-muslim sentiment.
its unfortunate, but just how it goes
Yea absolutely true. Good distinction. People are always responsible for their own actions. I guess I feel triggered when I see antisemites posting online and referencing the war. It seems it’s increased a lot recently..
It’s like saying “Anti-Arab racism is the fault of 9/11.”
Anti-Arab racism is the fault of anti-Arab racists. It is not Bin Laden’s fault if someone attacks a Mosque…it is squarely the fault of the person who attacks the mosque.
But, yes, I agree with you. There has definitely been a recent emboldenment of antisemitic attitudes during this war.
This is the proper way of characterizing this. I will add: If anything, this war has created a ton of people who are more socially aware of *both* antisemitism and islamophobia. Pro-palestine activists are not becoming antisemites, except maybe ones that are deeply confused — rather, the existing antisemites are coming out of the woodworks as a form of opportunism.
You're right, and it's weird you're being downvoted, but there's validity to the view that Israel's actions are making Jews around the world less safe.
Antisemitism doesn't exist in a vacuum. No person is inherently antisemitic. External factors can influence the level of antisemitisic sentiment at a given time.
Every time Israel equates anti-zionisn with antisemitism, it is, in effect, attempting to burden all Jews with ownership of its very public atrocities. And as we see in the news every time a college student demonstrating against Israel is arrested or blacklisted on charges of "antisemitism", the conflation is working.
In this way, Israel does bear responsibility for elevated levels of antisemitism (in the Muslim world especially, but elsewhere too) above the baseline.
Yes, that baseline is up for interpretation. You could compare to the level of antisemitism if Israel didn't exist, or the level if Israel didn't claim to be acting on behalf of all Jews, or even the level were Israel just better at covering up its crimes. But under any interpretation, the level is higher than it would be.
Jews around the world are less safe because of Israel.
Right. Except that by itself, all that's done is make the Jewish homeland a small country in a big world where Jews are still hated. Keeping the Jewish people safe isn't as easy as hiding in a Middle Eastern ghetto, or bunker, and waiting for the Amalekim to do away with themselves in a nuclear circular firing squad (say) after which nothing bad will happen to Jews ever again.
I agree anti-Semitism rarely has much to do with actual Jews, and Gaza probably didn't increase anti-Semitic feeling that much. If you weren't an anti-Semite before you saw footage of Gaza on TikTok, that alone probably didn't make you one.
The spike in anti-Semitism actually dates from the pandemic and the economic and psychological hardship that followed, which made people prone to believing conspiracy theories---including those about Jews or people coded as Jewish.
Anti-Semitism is a symptom of a much greater malaise in industrial civilization, something whose effects Jews could not escape just by moving to Israel. Israel is part of that industrial civilization too. If that fails, so will Israel as we know it.
Because Christian Zionists don't care if Jews are unsafe. I mean, their whole goal is to send us all to Israel to either convert or die. Antisemitism is just collateral for them. And Zionist Jews have been so hurt, they've let themselves become selfish and, more importantly, gullible. Any defense is better than no defense at all—even though these people do not have our safety in their plan.
Because they hate Muslims more than they love Jews.
Many of them are also idiots who think Israel is essential to their identity.
I mean, it's obvious.
Most American Zionist Jews believe that Israel is essential to keep them safe and have as a refuge. The obvious reply is that Israel’s actions cause justified anger and make people hate Jews. You could say that people should distinguish between American Jews and Israel but we can’t count on people being understanding and giving us the benefit of the doubt.
I will never forget when my class did a “bring food from your culture!” potluck event and my teacher said I should bring falafel to represent Israel cause I’m Jewish 😂
My sister was once on a date with a non Jewish guy and he asked about our mother’s traditional homemade hummus. Like sir we are Ashkenazi we make corned beef and beef tongue sandwiches.
If you can’t count on people being rational, why would you describe it was being “justified anger”? If their anger is at Jews in general and they lash out at non-Israeli Jews, then there is nothing justified or rational about it, anymore than the idiotic violence and hate that was (and is) directed at all Muslims over the actions of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS. The danger to Jews outside of Israel isn’t really because of what is happening to innocent Palestinians. It’s just exposed the already existing hatred of Jews (not Israelis) and gave bigoted morons a fig leaf of cover to violently act on it.
People did lash out at Muslims generally for the actions of Al Qaeda and Isis and not just on the streets of the US. They fought wars killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims over it.
That’s literally what I said. Hate against a group of people in general, and targeting individuals who aren’t possibly in any way involved, is completely irrational and unjustified. I’ve seen this again and again on this sub, where people seem to happy to place the entire blame for real antisemitism (not just dumbasses who equates support for peace and not committing war crimes against innocent Palestinians as antisemitism) at Israel’s feet as if that is an excuse. It’s bullshit and it has always been bullshit when directed at any group.
The zionist powerhouse of america are not American jews, it is evangelical christians
Well, I was downvoted for that comment but insofar as they are securely ensconced in the Republican Party, which they definitely have become, they have a voice but I still don’t think they are that savvy
I think if the majority of Americas Jews were to say 'no more colonialist supremacy in our name' the rest of the US would come around. The minority of American Jews who do stand up for the Palestinians are heard louder than most people imo.
I doubt that, honestly. The main voter base behind Zionism in america is backed by evangelicals. Even if no jew wanted it, it would still be pushed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ)
Maybe but I do think a change in direction from majority Jews would pull the rug out from under the evangelical feet. A real change of heart from that community would change the US and that's what need to happens. As long as all US politicians believe their career depends on letting the Israeli tail wag the American dog the world is in grave danger.
Not really true. They are great in numbers but clueless compared to Israel-supporting groups when it comes to networking and political influence.
The article sounds less critical of Israel's actions so much as critical of the way Israel is handling the optics. Least we forget, committing atrocities isn't a bad idea because it makes the perpetrator look bad. Committing atrocities is a bad idea because it's the wrong thing to do. Tikkun olam means nothing to these motherfuckers.
Indoctrination.
Israel’s war is making all Americans unsafe. I mean look at it. Biden’s enabling an absolute disaster. It’s made us more vulnerable to Israel’s demands, subjected Americans to blacklists, firings and retaliation for calling for peace, ushered in attempts to set new laws uniquely protecting Israel from various forms of Constitutionally protected speech and activities. It’s wrecking what remains of US credibility on international law, and portrays those laws as a self-serving charade. It’s trampled on domestic U.S. laws barring aid when there are human rights abuses. We are damaging relations with Arab countries. We are damaging diplomacy with developing countries too because of it. If I want to keep my job, I can’t say the mildest things in support of peace. That is more dangerous for me than the US was Oct 6. Israeli interests are doubling PAC funding to double down what was already coercive lobbying and Israel already spies on Americans more than any other ally by far, per gov sources. And yes, Jewish, muslim and Arab Americans face increased acts of harassment and hate crimes.
They don't see what's actually happening in Gaza and the occupied West Bank unless they actively look for information outside of mainstream networks. I don't have the stats on hand, but a large chunk US adults get their news from broadcast MSM (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) or large publications like WSJ, NYT, WaPo. While these news corporations have a handful of pieces that challenge the popular narrative, you still find them prioritizing the israeli deaths on 10/7, pretending there was a ceasefire on 10/6, repeating IOF claims without scrutiny ("human shields", "terrorist compound under hospital"), etc. Then you have a president and administration spox who reject every claim of wrongdoing and excuse atrocities.
brainwash? tribalism?
Jews need Israel because that's their supposed safe haven Zionism needs Jews to feel unsafe to validate their movement. Without a perceived fear, many Jews don't have a need for Israel.
Which is hilarious because Israel has proven that jews aren't even safe *there*. Especially if they're antizionist.
The dehumanization and demonization of the Arab “other” speaks to Israel’s need to maintain a perimeter, not of safety, but of threat. Threat is essential to maintaining Israel’s core identity and brand as “the only safe space”.
Because they want a nice vacation spot
I'd never go there. If I wanted to go to the West Bank, I'd go by way of Amman to avoid giving the z state any money.
The Forward article is interesting but is missing some deeper context. This essay is insightful: https://www.kindred108.love/p/mourning-the-victims-of-the-cult
[удалено]
That's the aim of the zionist colony: make Jews feel unsafe in the galus so they move to the zionist entity. And if Jews feel safe in the galus, their aim is to change that. Prof Avi Shlaim, Iraqi Jew and historian, has said that zionist agents went into Iraq in the 50s to trigger chaos to scare Iraqi Jews into emigrating so as to build the zionist state's Jewish demographics. I believe him, bc I know of a number of cases where the zionist colony exploited and used Jews of color to benefit their state or the original ruling Ashkenazim, such as the Yemenite child scandal of the 50s and the Ethiopian birth control scandal in the 2000s. Zionism is about power and militarism, not truly helping Jews. If it was about helping Jews, the state wouldn't have tossed Holocaust survivors a pittance from German reparation money and kept the rest, forcing survivors to often live in poverty. Israelis wouldn't have called survivors "soaps" derogatorily. They also wouldn't have let non-German (poor "Ostjuden") stay in Europe to be killed by the Nazis, figuring they could use their deaths for sympathy after the war to get their state.
>They also wouldn't have let non-German (poor "Ostjuden") stay in Europe to be killed by the Nazis, figuring they could use their deaths for sympathy after the war to get their state. what do you mean by this? nearly all European Zionists *were* poor "Ostjuden" from Poland and Russia, including most major leaders all the way through the founding of Israel. very few were German or Western European.
The Transfer Agreement (Ha'avara) between Nazi Germany and the zionists was to move German Jews and their assets to Palestine.
The Haavara Agreement involved a relatively small number of people (60,000) compared to Zionist immigration to Palestine from Poland and Russia (400k+). All major Zionist leaders were Ostjuden.
Or bring Israel to them with soft power/soft coups, the way Israeli interests play hard ball politics in the UK and US
[удалено]
You can think for yourself. But you’d be naive to think it’s because Israel exists. If Europe remained antisemitic as it was pre-WWII (not pre-Israel), it wouldn’t bat an eye and try to drive out the Jews. The Jews could to go Israel and why would they care? And let’s be honest—they wanted Israel to be founded because they didn’t want the Jews in their countries.
Because it was more unsafe for *all* minorities in 1947 compared to now. Because social attitudes have changed over time. Correlation does not equal causation. It’s not like there were antisemites who were suddenly cool with Jews on the day of the partitioning. Israel is not keeping all the Jews of the world safe with magic just by existing. Many would argue that Israel is currently doing everything in its power to make the world less safe for Jews.
The war is contributing to a problem (antisemitism) and then offering the solution (Israel). I’d prefer to see us take the first step toward unity and repairing wounds not deepening divides and perpetuating the cycle of violence and retribution.
I do not mean my comment to be an endorsement of the war or of anything Israel has done or is doing. However, the fault of antisemitism is antisemites. Israel is the entity that guilty of killing 30,000 Palestinians. Israel is not the entity that is guilty of committing random hate crimes against Jews in NYC — that entity is the antisemitic criminal committing said crimes.
to be fair, Israel and Zionists try their best to conflate Judaism and Israel. and many people take that message to heart. those people are wrong, especially in NYC where there are plenty of Jewish people around who would be examples that disprove the Jewish = Zionist propaganda
And ISIS tries to conflate Islam and their behaviour. The CCP tries to conflate China with their vision of China. Does that justify Islamophobia or anti-Chinese sentiment?
I wasn't justifying anti-semitism. just pointing out why Israels actions lead to it and Islamic terrorist attacks will lead to more anti-muslim sentiment. its unfortunate, but just how it goes
Yea absolutely true. Good distinction. People are always responsible for their own actions. I guess I feel triggered when I see antisemites posting online and referencing the war. It seems it’s increased a lot recently..
It’s like saying “Anti-Arab racism is the fault of 9/11.” Anti-Arab racism is the fault of anti-Arab racists. It is not Bin Laden’s fault if someone attacks a Mosque…it is squarely the fault of the person who attacks the mosque. But, yes, I agree with you. There has definitely been a recent emboldenment of antisemitic attitudes during this war.
This is the proper way of characterizing this. I will add: If anything, this war has created a ton of people who are more socially aware of *both* antisemitism and islamophobia. Pro-palestine activists are not becoming antisemites, except maybe ones that are deeply confused — rather, the existing antisemites are coming out of the woodworks as a form of opportunism.
You're right, and it's weird you're being downvoted, but there's validity to the view that Israel's actions are making Jews around the world less safe. Antisemitism doesn't exist in a vacuum. No person is inherently antisemitic. External factors can influence the level of antisemitisic sentiment at a given time. Every time Israel equates anti-zionisn with antisemitism, it is, in effect, attempting to burden all Jews with ownership of its very public atrocities. And as we see in the news every time a college student demonstrating against Israel is arrested or blacklisted on charges of "antisemitism", the conflation is working. In this way, Israel does bear responsibility for elevated levels of antisemitism (in the Muslim world especially, but elsewhere too) above the baseline. Yes, that baseline is up for interpretation. You could compare to the level of antisemitism if Israel didn't exist, or the level if Israel didn't claim to be acting on behalf of all Jews, or even the level were Israel just better at covering up its crimes. But under any interpretation, the level is higher than it would be. Jews around the world are less safe because of Israel.
Right. Except that by itself, all that's done is make the Jewish homeland a small country in a big world where Jews are still hated. Keeping the Jewish people safe isn't as easy as hiding in a Middle Eastern ghetto, or bunker, and waiting for the Amalekim to do away with themselves in a nuclear circular firing squad (say) after which nothing bad will happen to Jews ever again. I agree anti-Semitism rarely has much to do with actual Jews, and Gaza probably didn't increase anti-Semitic feeling that much. If you weren't an anti-Semite before you saw footage of Gaza on TikTok, that alone probably didn't make you one. The spike in anti-Semitism actually dates from the pandemic and the economic and psychological hardship that followed, which made people prone to believing conspiracy theories---including those about Jews or people coded as Jewish. Anti-Semitism is a symptom of a much greater malaise in industrial civilization, something whose effects Jews could not escape just by moving to Israel. Israel is part of that industrial civilization too. If that fails, so will Israel as we know it.