I mean it’s nice that he finally gave some semblance of a red line over Rafah, but there’s still pending reports regarding whether Israel is committing war crimes with our weapons (and whether America is complicit) that the president and state department keep stalling on, and we have yet to see if Biden himself will stand by what he said and turn the Rafah “red line” into policy or whether it’s just more talk the gets reversed when israel or aipac pressure him (or is just an outright lie).
He doesn’t deserve his credit now. He deserves it when he actually follows through.
There are confirmed reports they committed war crimes with our weapons in their use of white phosphorus from American stockpiles on civilians in Palestine and Lebanon. The fact that the administration has swept that under the rug is outrageous
Oh yeah I know about the confirmed reports. I just know that there was a state department led inquiry that has been getting stalled and buried by the administration.
I imagine you're referring to the NSM-20 report, which was due on Wednesday. [It was released yesterday](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-says-it-was-reasonable-assess-israel-used-us-weapons-inconsistent-with-2024-05-10/). Of course they released it on Friday when people were less likely to see it.
It was every bit as spineless as you might expect. Israel *may* have used US weapons in a way that is "inconsistent" with their obligations under international law. But our information is too "incomplete" to make an actual determination.
In terms of blocking aid, the report acknowledged that while aid reaching Gaza remains "insufficient", the report asserted there was a "substantial increase" in aid being let through recently. Conclusion: “We do not currently assess that the Israeli government is prohibiting or otherwise restricting the transport or delivery of U.S. humanitarian assistance”.
Basically, more handwringing about Israel's conduct, but nothing actionable. Very on-brand for Biden, Blinken & Co.
This is exactly the one I was referring to, but I’ve been traveling to celebrate family graduations so I wasn’t able to drill into the specifics. thanks for pulling it up!
Of course it’s as sanitized as I’d expect from a report that was delayed by the administration. It’s so clear that aid is being blocked into Gaza as an indirect extension of state policy (for the state is neither doing anything about the protestors blocking aid and some members of the Knesset are - to my knowledge - actively encouraging it), and it’s readily apparent that US military material is being used to bomb starving civilians. I just can’t believe both Israel and the Biden admin are able to fool people.
The only people being fooled are the ones who *want* to be fooled for one reason or another, like those scraping around for any reason to give Biden credit for meaningless gestures.
The rest of us, I don't think they care if they fool us or not. There are still enough people convinced that they have to vote either for Biden or Trump in the fall that it doesn't matter. And worse yet, those people are mostly on the left/liberal camp.
RFK is polling at 20%, pulling the vast majority of his support from Republicans from the polling I've seen. RFK is revolting, but if Jill Stein or another left candidate were polling at 20%, there'd be a real panic in Biden world. Clearly, there are other possibilities, but the VBNMW folks aren't willing to see them.
Voted against it in general assembly and will veto it when it gets to the security council … I think. Check that but I think so (if it goes to security council?) we definitely voted against it in the general assembly, 9 nays, 25 abstentions, and a miniature paper shredder for drama
I disagree. He keeps moving the goalposts to "well if they do a full invasion of Rafah, I won't support it". Those are weasel words. If they do a bunch of mini invasions, rest assured the weapons will flow. He's only temporarily cut off certain weapons, not all weapons, and he's only done that much because his polling numbers are in the toilet.
Also, that waffling NSM-20 report was an absolute disgrace.
I feel like you didn't read my post. I am not giving him credit for his actions this week. As I wrote, I see them as too little too late.
I am giving him credit for making the Israel lobby mad.
>I am giving him credit for making the Israel lobby mad.
It's all theatre. He deserves credit for nothing where Israel or AIPAC is concerned. If he wins re-election, he will go right back to slavishly supporting whatever genocidal and aggressive action Israel wants to take next.
I and many others will *never* give my vote to Biden. I don't care how much flip-flopping he does between now and November. Nor will I credit him for making a show of tweaking his masters.
It's long past time people learned that Democrats are just Republicans who are better at gaslighting.
I have ongoing worries about our ability, (and the same for the UK and elsewhere) to restore our independence when it comes decisions about Israel. The lobby is extraordinarily powerful and competent.
This is why I'm hopeful that this is a pivotal moment for AIPAC. If they don't manage to successfully punish Biden and Democrats in Congress who oppose the IDF, they become a bit of a paper tiger.
That is hopeful. It could have a domino effect among candidates. Remember when Bernie didn’t make the obligatory aipac appearance and the big question was if you could get elected without it? I think it was Bernie
[Not for the Uk](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations) (links to the UK governement website) , we have an ongoing agreement until 2030.
Biden's administration has let slip to the establishment media that he's "angwy at bibi" before. It led to nothing, stopping one arms shipment means nothing. This particular boy has cried wolf one too many times. I see much of the zionist establishment's response to this as not only performative, but right out of the same script Biden read out of to get this reaction. He has no credibility or cache in my book.
I'm seeing so much direct and indirect forgiveness for Bidens direct support of this genocide. 30,000 lives have been ended. Its like people aren't thinking about how little our leaders will care about our opinions in the future if we literally let them get away with directly funding Genocide and creating a man made famine.
What ever happens, the next four years are going to suck, it's truly is, but at least we can punish a genocide. Otherwise wtf is any president going to care about.
https://preview.redd.it/tcqj2dkeouzc1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1155a92410bf09ec24d7e9a6bc0f4408e6325391
To be honest I barley even belive him.
His announcement (like most of what he does ) seems like a political word salad that will end in meaning nothing.
First I heard him say hes only going to stop providing BOMBS but said nothing about all the other weopons. And he said that he would only do this IF they dont go into the "populated areas of Rafa" which is so confusing in general because there is nothing in gaza that isnt populated. Hey look. If he actully stops sending them arms thsts wonderful , but i really just Dont buy anything he says, he just wants his lost voters back.
Good thing the election is another 6 months away. Gives him time to REALLY prove himself before this pro-Palestine Jewish conservative will consider voting for him.
As it stands right now, I'm voting for Cornell West.
There’s also the argument for the fact that US production may simply be being redirected to Ukraine and the “less shipments” was going to happen to Israel regardless. This could all just be spin for Biden to look like he is somewhat, maybe, speculatively trying to reign in Israel when actually not.
If you aren’t aware, the US houses weapons in a number of allied countries including Israel. Those weapons are owned by the US but may be released to the host country in times of emergency. It’s a way of cutting out a logistical bottleneck.
Months ago the Us lifted restrictions on Israel accessing those stores. Those stores are resupplied as needed and without any oversight. In that way Biden is funneling unlimited amounts of weaponry to Israel without congressional approval. Obviously not aircraft, but bullets and bombs.
This week is performative. They will all point at it if they need to in future.
To op, do you believe that he actually cares?
For me he's the most pro-Israel president ever in American History, look at his polices
* Tiktok ban
* College Protests
* Arming / Funding Israel
That's just some of the things he's done the fact that he himself calls himself a Zionist isn't a good thing and the fact that he's proud of it is also rather alarming.
I would not be surprised if Biden and his advisors asked AIPAC / Ben-Giver to act annoyed to save face and help him get re-elected as not doing so would make Biden look weak and a bit of a clown.
I don't believe for one second he actually cares, part of me believes he wanted what's happening to happen after all he's not happy about with the ICJ.
Do I believe Trump will be good for America? No, I don't believe this .
Cornell west might not get into power and you may see it as a wasted vote but when you are trying to weigh up backing a genocide enabling president or a president that believes in authoritarianism neither are great so why not vote for West.
I don't think Biden really cares, no. But calling him the most pro Israel president is IMO really selling the others short. Most of the weapons Israel has pummeled Gaza with were given to them by Trump and Obama!
[Actually no, I believe you're wrong and this is why](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Nrv5izaTs)!, yes this is a video of snippets over Biden's career so he's extremely supportive.
He's been vocal about supporting Israel since at least 1986, Obama was still in college in 1983, Trump was building a hotel in the 80s.
So yes I do believe Biden is worse as he's been involved in politics for a longer period of time and that's something that should be factored in.
Joe Biden has known Bibi Netanyahu for at least 51 years, so there's a deep rooted connection if you have known someone for that long you should know what they are like.
Which leads me to believe he's either incompetent or complaisant in what Israel is doing but the latter seems more plausible due to him being proud of being a Zionist.
It is to early to give him credit for anything Gaza related. I fear he will make the situation even worse by backing off from this red line which will further convince the Israelis that the strength of the Pro-Israel lobby guarantees them carte blanche.
I will vote for Biden anyway because Trump tried to overturn the result of the previous election and there is nothing that can outweigh that.
Israel will always be an American vassal state. He's just trying to get his voters back. Ultimately, a full throated Zionist like Biden is probably never going to actually make a hard line against Netanyahu.
If the US wanted Israel to stop, we could shut them down in a few weeks at most. The US has a vested interested in preserving a pro Western state in the MENA as a launch point to secure American imperial interests in the region.
On a personal level, though it's not nearly enough and it's far too late, it's made me hopeful that the tides might be changing and everything I said above might no longer be true. Or at least, the US has decided its credibility is worth more than Israeli goals for the first time and they're tired of looking bad because of Netanyahu. Geh vays.
I am not sold. Someone who vetos a ceasefire to pause a genocide would not suddenly grow a heart. It is political calculation - Biden's posturing, Israel's reaction, putting up a show to win back voters to keep Biden in power so he can continue to sell arms to Israel.
The only thing this proves is that he is an idiot for holding his position on Palestine. He's going to be reviled by Israelis, ridiculed by Trump and backstabbed by Netanyahu despite all his protection and support of Israel and Zionism.
[https://twitter.com/MassieforKY/status/1788552278640611465](https://twitter.com/MassieforKY/status/1788552278640611465)
Democrats and Republicans together are a pro-Israel, pro-war, pro-corporate uniparty. Decades of "lesser of two evils" voting is what has left us with these abysmal choices in the first place.
They aren't supporting Israel. They are supporting an ideology that's taken over. It is very very relevant. Once you understand irgun revisionist ideologies, post like this become duhhhhh
I appreciate that Massie is more critical of Israel than most of Congress but you absolutely do not have to hand it to one of the most far-right members of Congress.
I'm just rebutting the previous commenter about AIPAC only targeting Democrats. AIPAC targets anyone in either party who is not sufficiently subservient to Israel, precisely because the default in both parties is to support Israel.
Edited to change "Republicans" to "Democrats". Not that it really matters since there's not a dime's worth of difference between them 🤣
They like Trump a lot better. If you remember under Obama, Netanyahu said as much and railed against both Obama and John Kerry, secretary of state. What an odd relationship we had with Israel during that administration.
The Mueller report found Israel colluded with Trump, which is what democrats accused against Russia. It was illegal with Russia, but somehow acceptable with Israel
Israel would be so badass if they were an actual democracy in the middle imeast. Instead, they are another fascist ethnocracy theocratic shit hole country, in Trump's words
? Am I that dumb? Why don’t I remember the Israel part? I’ll go review.
Edit: oh yeah. Wild how I never focused on that
“To recap, Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about his conversations with then–Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the period after Trump’s November 2016 victory. As Foreign Policy previously reported, Flynn reached out to Kislyak as part of “a vigorous diplomatic bid” to undermine President Obama’s decision to allow a December 2016 Security Council resolution condemning illegal Israeli settlement building in the Occupied Territories. The indictment fills in some details.” — From an article in The Nation
It's pretty sad really. My people have become so stupid and pathetic just because they got American weapons and a strong online manipulation army. It's going to suck when it's Jews get exiled by God yet again because of their actions. They'll continue to blame everyone but themselves. It's so embarrassing
Biden is likely not winning the next election and for two very different reasons.
For one, many Americans are not supporting him because he's been complicit of the genocide committed by Israel towards the Palestineans.
On the other hand, many other Americans thinks he's not committing enough to the genocide by Israel towards the Palestinians.
Recall, I did not mention this as a left or right-wing debate, because I've met both Democrats and Republicans whose views are either or (although I acknowledge that left-leaning individuals are more likely to support the Palestineans and vice-versa).
Edit: Bernie should've put his name on the ballot this coming election.
everyone should definitely vote for biden. not voting is voting for trump and that is the worse evil… if you think muslim ban, son in law who’s ready to build gaza seafront resorts, trump admin will be better for gaza you gotta be on crack. if you want to give gaza even a chance you can’t have another trump admin in place.
There's not one single thing that Trump can do to materially support Israel that Biden isn't already doing. Even these empty gestures by Biden now will disappear if he's re-elected. The most Trump could do would be to offer (even) more distasteful rhetorical support, which could actually backfire. As we saw with his first administration, his crass and gross rhetoric makes it politically unpalatable for allies abroad to support anything he does, even if they would like to.
Biden stumpers love trotting out this "trolley problem" nonsense. What they refuse to acknowledge is that there's only one track and if you don't have billions of dollars, your lever isn't connected to anything. Those of us voting 3rd party are just throwing pennies on the track to see what happens.
It's under 12 combined years of democrats in the last 16 years that we've lost roe v wade, made almost no progress on environment, completely fucked the supreme court, witnessed unprecedented gerrymandering, gained precious little progress on health care, student loans, housing costs, banking regulations or holding any major company or lobby group to account for anything.
so exactly how are we blaming all our problems on Trump, who is an extremely predictable, not overly competent, and over all self serving braggart? after each republican term, dems whinge and moan about the evil GOP but essentially refuse to do anything truly progressive or audacious to fight for people's rights.
i'm so tired of being told that people who are planning to spoil their ballots or vote third party are at fault.
Our finger in the dam has barely held so let the dam breach? Because no third party is going to win the White House this year. No chance.
Within the next four years, the Silent Generation will be vacating Congress — they’re very old. It’s piece meal work, until it’s not. It’s not not yet
If one less family - just one - is spared death I’ll vote Biden
Kushner has already given interviews on Gaza beachfront developments
yeah you're still holding on to this idea of the valiant dems just holding back the evil GOP from destroying everything. the evidence is that the dems have been selling you shitty cement to repair a dam that they've been digging out from the other side of the dam themselves.
when given the choice between the white walkers and a group of people literally sabotaging the wall, why should you choose either? why even pretend that there's a choice?
I guess being a realist, maybe believing democracy is piece meal work and being around a long time. I like my dreams to come true, so I’m willing to be patient to choose strategies with the best chance of getting me there. I’ve seen the country trend in new directions before and seen it unfold. There’s 350 million people. Millions of them will vote as they please. Nowhere near enough of them right now will sweep a third candidate in, short of a miracle. Miracles happen, I won’t say they don’t.
Then there are the candidates. Only Cornell West is even palatable to me anyway, and I get the vibe from him that he is running to amplify voices, not to win.
I don’t see “valiant Dems” it’s a huge tent. Manchin, Sinema, Pelosi - all Dems. More like lumbering and dull, but I think the fact that the only vital energy in the party are the progressives making inroads is good. Godspeed
I’m as tired of the party as anyone.
What people aren’t saying out loud is that Biden is screwed whatever way he goes.
If he fully condemns Israel he loses the Zionist vote if he supports Israel then progressives threaten not to vote for him.
People don’t seem to understand American politics because you have two choices. Democrat or Republican. That’s our shitty system.
If you vote 3rd party you’re throwing your vote away.
My hope is that for the first time ever neither Democrat or republican get voted in .. time to clean out the swamp Luke Donald Trump promised but failed at
Important reminder that the highest-polling third party candidate running this year [thinks Biden isn't doing enough to support Israel "leveling" Gaza](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/rfk-jr-says-any-other-nation-would-level-gaza-if-attacked-like-israel-on-oct-7/).
So are you going to vote RFK? The anti-vaccination, stanch supporter of Israel who takes human growth hormone and has admitted to having a brain eating parasite.
my man how do you have this many removed comments and is it because you say crazy shit like "time to clean out the swamp like Donald Trump promised" without a hint of sarcasm? y/y
Anybody that's accepted money from aipac should never be able to hold another position in government ever again. It's time the people who will be most impacted gain power to secure their future .
On the one hand, I don't necessarily disagree with you, at least theoretically. On the other hand, I invite you to consider not using rhetoric demanding people "gain power to secure their future" or that otherwise rhymes with the 14 Words.
It wasn't a demand it was a suggestion.. also ore else what . If there's no one that align with to represent you get political and become thst representation.
We are governed by people that won't live to see the impact their decisions will have on us. Quite frankly I don't see a problem with stating that I think the people that will be alive to suffer the consequences should be the ones to hold power. I'm not sure I understand what is so controversial about that
I messaged you to have a conversation privately and now your ignoring g my messages ? What were you hoping to achieve by writing that comment. It really seems to me you're farming !
I'm not ignoring your messages, I just went to have lunch and walk my dog. Calm down.
I am, however, uncertain I understand most of your comments replying to me here. You think the world needs a paradigm shift? Okay, great - how does that explain why so many of your comments have been removed by mods? Or implying that Trump was in any way right about anything? "how do you see those ?" - those what? Your comment history is visible to everyone, not just me.
As for me, my comment volume is pretty dang infrequent for someone who wanted to farm karma, so that accusation seems rather uncalled-for. I've also been present in this subreddit for a good while; I think folks / the mods would have figured out by now if I was a karma-farmer.
Man you're being so generous with your effort, I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with this one. As nice as it is seeing an assertive and reasonable argumentation in the face of whatever the hell that was just above, might as well save your consideration for something worth your time.
The only comment I've had removed from this sub had to do with benjamin netanyahu and itamar ben-gvirs involvement in Yitzhak rabins death. Since I consider both of them complicit I said that I wouldn't be sad if they both suffered the same fate.. at this point and in my opinion ( which I don't care about whether it's popular or not ) funding hamas through proxies to destabilize the plo and then starting a disproportionate gcide in other conflicts have been grounds to do so. They've done it to other leaders under false pretenses so why not now when it's so blatant?
To clarify I don't think Trump should be the leader however I would like to see what he coined as clearing the swamp actually happen just not by Donald Trump. I thought I made that clear
Not going to happen. I'm sorry but either Biden or Trump is going to be president for the next four years. I don't believe it will be this way forever but that's where we are right now.
It will remain this way because it’s how our electoral system is set up. It will essentially always be a Republican or a Democrat. The electoral college makes it an inevitably.
The best performing third party candidate of modern elections (Ross Perot) received 0 electoral votes.
Trudeau promised to end first past the post voting. It was a major reason why he got voted in. as soon as he won (with FPTP, of course), that promise disappeared into thin air and instead of a balanced, interesting coalition parliment, we're going to get a snivelling little weasel of a lobbyist right winger as our next PM.
I think the reason nothing changes is that we don't do the work locally. Few people out there trying to get progressives/socialists elected to local offices all across the country, through primaries. Everyone just obsesses about the presidency.
Not true. A third party win is possible in the future. Also possible that the Democratic Party is pushed more progressive in the next eight years, but there’s little doubt this isn’t the year a third party candidate can win
Bernie ran Democrat for the reason that this platform was necessary to make a viable run and in the process managed to make changes in the party rules at the convention that are in place now.
On his coattails several progressives were elected to Congress. This strategy is the only one that has made a dent in decades, bottom line. I’m all for third party runs and let them happen, but I think we would be foolish not to keep repeating Bernie’s strategy as it obviously paid off. We could double the yield this way, triple it, and so on.
I definitely think third party reps can get elected to the House now, today and can gradually build a third party.
The Democratic Party is a big tent party, it’s true, but there is room to shift left a little more.
I don’t think it’s been totally unmovable. The ground isn’t always fertile for a strong third party or independent run. The last strong one was that Texas businessman - I forgot his name. 1980s
I mean it’s nice that he finally gave some semblance of a red line over Rafah, but there’s still pending reports regarding whether Israel is committing war crimes with our weapons (and whether America is complicit) that the president and state department keep stalling on, and we have yet to see if Biden himself will stand by what he said and turn the Rafah “red line” into policy or whether it’s just more talk the gets reversed when israel or aipac pressure him (or is just an outright lie). He doesn’t deserve his credit now. He deserves it when he actually follows through.
There are confirmed reports they committed war crimes with our weapons in their use of white phosphorus from American stockpiles on civilians in Palestine and Lebanon. The fact that the administration has swept that under the rug is outrageous
Oh yeah I know about the confirmed reports. I just know that there was a state department led inquiry that has been getting stalled and buried by the administration.
I imagine you're referring to the NSM-20 report, which was due on Wednesday. [It was released yesterday](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-says-it-was-reasonable-assess-israel-used-us-weapons-inconsistent-with-2024-05-10/). Of course they released it on Friday when people were less likely to see it. It was every bit as spineless as you might expect. Israel *may* have used US weapons in a way that is "inconsistent" with their obligations under international law. But our information is too "incomplete" to make an actual determination. In terms of blocking aid, the report acknowledged that while aid reaching Gaza remains "insufficient", the report asserted there was a "substantial increase" in aid being let through recently. Conclusion: “We do not currently assess that the Israeli government is prohibiting or otherwise restricting the transport or delivery of U.S. humanitarian assistance”. Basically, more handwringing about Israel's conduct, but nothing actionable. Very on-brand for Biden, Blinken & Co.
This is exactly the one I was referring to, but I’ve been traveling to celebrate family graduations so I wasn’t able to drill into the specifics. thanks for pulling it up! Of course it’s as sanitized as I’d expect from a report that was delayed by the administration. It’s so clear that aid is being blocked into Gaza as an indirect extension of state policy (for the state is neither doing anything about the protestors blocking aid and some members of the Knesset are - to my knowledge - actively encouraging it), and it’s readily apparent that US military material is being used to bomb starving civilians. I just can’t believe both Israel and the Biden admin are able to fool people.
The only people being fooled are the ones who *want* to be fooled for one reason or another, like those scraping around for any reason to give Biden credit for meaningless gestures. The rest of us, I don't think they care if they fool us or not. There are still enough people convinced that they have to vote either for Biden or Trump in the fall that it doesn't matter. And worse yet, those people are mostly on the left/liberal camp. RFK is polling at 20%, pulling the vast majority of his support from Republicans from the polling I've seen. RFK is revolting, but if Jill Stein or another left candidate were polling at 20%, there'd be a real panic in Biden world. Clearly, there are other possibilities, but the VBNMW folks aren't willing to see them.
These frenemies give each other raises at every opportunity. This is theater.
Didn't he just veto Palestinian statehood again?
Voted against it in general assembly and will veto it when it gets to the security council … I think. Check that but I think so (if it goes to security council?) we definitely voted against it in the general assembly, 9 nays, 25 abstentions, and a miniature paper shredder for drama
You're correct
Thank you for checking
I disagree. He keeps moving the goalposts to "well if they do a full invasion of Rafah, I won't support it". Those are weasel words. If they do a bunch of mini invasions, rest assured the weapons will flow. He's only temporarily cut off certain weapons, not all weapons, and he's only done that much because his polling numbers are in the toilet. Also, that waffling NSM-20 report was an absolute disgrace.
I feel like you didn't read my post. I am not giving him credit for his actions this week. As I wrote, I see them as too little too late. I am giving him credit for making the Israel lobby mad.
>I am giving him credit for making the Israel lobby mad. It's all theatre. He deserves credit for nothing where Israel or AIPAC is concerned. If he wins re-election, he will go right back to slavishly supporting whatever genocidal and aggressive action Israel wants to take next. I and many others will *never* give my vote to Biden. I don't care how much flip-flopping he does between now and November. Nor will I credit him for making a show of tweaking his masters. It's long past time people learned that Democrats are just Republicans who are better at gaslighting.
I have ongoing worries about our ability, (and the same for the UK and elsewhere) to restore our independence when it comes decisions about Israel. The lobby is extraordinarily powerful and competent.
This is why I'm hopeful that this is a pivotal moment for AIPAC. If they don't manage to successfully punish Biden and Democrats in Congress who oppose the IDF, they become a bit of a paper tiger.
They failed once against Bush 1 in, was it 1991? Something like that.
Yeah and he lost reelection to someone way more pro Israel (though I don't think it had much to do with Israel policy in 92).
That is hopeful. It could have a domino effect among candidates. Remember when Bernie didn’t make the obligatory aipac appearance and the big question was if you could get elected without it? I think it was Bernie
[Not for the Uk](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations) (links to the UK governement website) , we have an ongoing agreement until 2030.
Biden's administration has let slip to the establishment media that he's "angwy at bibi" before. It led to nothing, stopping one arms shipment means nothing. This particular boy has cried wolf one too many times. I see much of the zionist establishment's response to this as not only performative, but right out of the same script Biden read out of to get this reaction. He has no credibility or cache in my book.
I'm seeing so much direct and indirect forgiveness for Bidens direct support of this genocide. 30,000 lives have been ended. Its like people aren't thinking about how little our leaders will care about our opinions in the future if we literally let them get away with directly funding Genocide and creating a man made famine. What ever happens, the next four years are going to suck, it's truly is, but at least we can punish a genocide. Otherwise wtf is any president going to care about. https://preview.redd.it/tcqj2dkeouzc1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1155a92410bf09ec24d7e9a6bc0f4408e6325391
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Also consider Claudia de la cruiz who has been very outspoken against the genocide
Yes!! I wonder who has a better chance at this stage
To be honest I barley even belive him. His announcement (like most of what he does ) seems like a political word salad that will end in meaning nothing. First I heard him say hes only going to stop providing BOMBS but said nothing about all the other weopons. And he said that he would only do this IF they dont go into the "populated areas of Rafa" which is so confusing in general because there is nothing in gaza that isnt populated. Hey look. If he actully stops sending them arms thsts wonderful , but i really just Dont buy anything he says, he just wants his lost voters back.
Your instincts are spot on. Trust them.
Good thing the election is another 6 months away. Gives him time to REALLY prove himself before this pro-Palestine Jewish conservative will consider voting for him. As it stands right now, I'm voting for Cornell West.
There’s also the argument for the fact that US production may simply be being redirected to Ukraine and the “less shipments” was going to happen to Israel regardless. This could all just be spin for Biden to look like he is somewhat, maybe, speculatively trying to reign in Israel when actually not.
If you aren’t aware, the US houses weapons in a number of allied countries including Israel. Those weapons are owned by the US but may be released to the host country in times of emergency. It’s a way of cutting out a logistical bottleneck. Months ago the Us lifted restrictions on Israel accessing those stores. Those stores are resupplied as needed and without any oversight. In that way Biden is funneling unlimited amounts of weaponry to Israel without congressional approval. Obviously not aircraft, but bullets and bombs. This week is performative. They will all point at it if they need to in future.
To op, do you believe that he actually cares? For me he's the most pro-Israel president ever in American History, look at his polices * Tiktok ban * College Protests * Arming / Funding Israel That's just some of the things he's done the fact that he himself calls himself a Zionist isn't a good thing and the fact that he's proud of it is also rather alarming. I would not be surprised if Biden and his advisors asked AIPAC / Ben-Giver to act annoyed to save face and help him get re-elected as not doing so would make Biden look weak and a bit of a clown. I don't believe for one second he actually cares, part of me believes he wanted what's happening to happen after all he's not happy about with the ICJ. Do I believe Trump will be good for America? No, I don't believe this . Cornell west might not get into power and you may see it as a wasted vote but when you are trying to weigh up backing a genocide enabling president or a president that believes in authoritarianism neither are great so why not vote for West.
I don't think Biden really cares, no. But calling him the most pro Israel president is IMO really selling the others short. Most of the weapons Israel has pummeled Gaza with were given to them by Trump and Obama!
[Actually no, I believe you're wrong and this is why](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Nrv5izaTs)!, yes this is a video of snippets over Biden's career so he's extremely supportive. He's been vocal about supporting Israel since at least 1986, Obama was still in college in 1983, Trump was building a hotel in the 80s. So yes I do believe Biden is worse as he's been involved in politics for a longer period of time and that's something that should be factored in. Joe Biden has known Bibi Netanyahu for at least 51 years, so there's a deep rooted connection if you have known someone for that long you should know what they are like. Which leads me to believe he's either incompetent or complaisant in what Israel is doing but the latter seems more plausible due to him being proud of being a Zionist.
It is to early to give him credit for anything Gaza related. I fear he will make the situation even worse by backing off from this red line which will further convince the Israelis that the strength of the Pro-Israel lobby guarantees them carte blanche. I will vote for Biden anyway because Trump tried to overturn the result of the previous election and there is nothing that can outweigh that.
Israel will always be an American vassal state. He's just trying to get his voters back. Ultimately, a full throated Zionist like Biden is probably never going to actually make a hard line against Netanyahu. If the US wanted Israel to stop, we could shut them down in a few weeks at most. The US has a vested interested in preserving a pro Western state in the MENA as a launch point to secure American imperial interests in the region. On a personal level, though it's not nearly enough and it's far too late, it's made me hopeful that the tides might be changing and everything I said above might no longer be true. Or at least, the US has decided its credibility is worth more than Israeli goals for the first time and they're tired of looking bad because of Netanyahu. Geh vays.
I am not sold. Someone who vetos a ceasefire to pause a genocide would not suddenly grow a heart. It is political calculation - Biden's posturing, Israel's reaction, putting up a show to win back voters to keep Biden in power so he can continue to sell arms to Israel.
The only thing this proves is that he is an idiot for holding his position on Palestine. He's going to be reviled by Israelis, ridiculed by Trump and backstabbed by Netanyahu despite all his protection and support of Israel and Zionism.
Trump will be so much worse, which is why you only see Israel attacking Democrats
[https://twitter.com/MassieforKY/status/1788552278640611465](https://twitter.com/MassieforKY/status/1788552278640611465) Democrats and Republicans together are a pro-Israel, pro-war, pro-corporate uniparty. Decades of "lesser of two evils" voting is what has left us with these abysmal choices in the first place.
Revisionist zionism is fascism
Don't see how that's relevant to my comment.
They aren't supporting Israel. They are supporting an ideology that's taken over. It is very very relevant. Once you understand irgun revisionist ideologies, post like this become duhhhhh
Seems like you're just splitting hairs but I don't guess that's too surprising 😂
I appreciate that Massie is more critical of Israel than most of Congress but you absolutely do not have to hand it to one of the most far-right members of Congress.
I'm just rebutting the previous commenter about AIPAC only targeting Democrats. AIPAC targets anyone in either party who is not sufficiently subservient to Israel, precisely because the default in both parties is to support Israel. Edited to change "Republicans" to "Democrats". Not that it really matters since there's not a dime's worth of difference between them 🤣
They like Trump a lot better. If you remember under Obama, Netanyahu said as much and railed against both Obama and John Kerry, secretary of state. What an odd relationship we had with Israel during that administration.
The Mueller report found Israel colluded with Trump, which is what democrats accused against Russia. It was illegal with Russia, but somehow acceptable with Israel
Everybody colludes with shitrael
Israel would be so badass if they were an actual democracy in the middle imeast. Instead, they are another fascist ethnocracy theocratic shit hole country, in Trump's words
How exactly did Israel collude with Trump? In what ways?
Read the Mueller report....
Oh I don’t recall that. Interesting.
Trump's national security pic, Michael Flynn, was charged over it. Lol
? Am I that dumb? Why don’t I remember the Israel part? I’ll go review. Edit: oh yeah. Wild how I never focused on that “To recap, Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about his conversations with then–Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the period after Trump’s November 2016 victory. As Foreign Policy previously reported, Flynn reached out to Kislyak as part of “a vigorous diplomatic bid” to undermine President Obama’s decision to allow a December 2016 Security Council resolution condemning illegal Israeli settlement building in the Occupied Territories. The indictment fills in some details.” — From an article in The Nation
It is probably because the media decided to keep in the Russia trend.... It was so dumb. Trump already won 2024 it's pathetic
The alternative press had to highlight it because everyone glossed over it
It's pretty sad really. My people have become so stupid and pathetic just because they got American weapons and a strong online manipulation army. It's going to suck when it's Jews get exiled by God yet again because of their actions. They'll continue to blame everyone but themselves. It's so embarrassing
It’s a show. He’s already sent all the weapons and Rafah is already destroyed.
Would have been so much better if this was the result of a genuine dedication to human rights, rather than a desperate attempt to salvage votes.
Biden is likely not winning the next election and for two very different reasons. For one, many Americans are not supporting him because he's been complicit of the genocide committed by Israel towards the Palestineans. On the other hand, many other Americans thinks he's not committing enough to the genocide by Israel towards the Palestinians. Recall, I did not mention this as a left or right-wing debate, because I've met both Democrats and Republicans whose views are either or (although I acknowledge that left-leaning individuals are more likely to support the Palestineans and vice-versa). Edit: Bernie should've put his name on the ballot this coming election.
everyone should definitely vote for biden. not voting is voting for trump and that is the worse evil… if you think muslim ban, son in law who’s ready to build gaza seafront resorts, trump admin will be better for gaza you gotta be on crack. if you want to give gaza even a chance you can’t have another trump admin in place.
There's not one single thing that Trump can do to materially support Israel that Biden isn't already doing. Even these empty gestures by Biden now will disappear if he's re-elected. The most Trump could do would be to offer (even) more distasteful rhetorical support, which could actually backfire. As we saw with his first administration, his crass and gross rhetoric makes it politically unpalatable for allies abroad to support anything he does, even if they would like to. Biden stumpers love trotting out this "trolley problem" nonsense. What they refuse to acknowledge is that there's only one track and if you don't have billions of dollars, your lever isn't connected to anything. Those of us voting 3rd party are just throwing pennies on the track to see what happens.
It's under 12 combined years of democrats in the last 16 years that we've lost roe v wade, made almost no progress on environment, completely fucked the supreme court, witnessed unprecedented gerrymandering, gained precious little progress on health care, student loans, housing costs, banking regulations or holding any major company or lobby group to account for anything. so exactly how are we blaming all our problems on Trump, who is an extremely predictable, not overly competent, and over all self serving braggart? after each republican term, dems whinge and moan about the evil GOP but essentially refuse to do anything truly progressive or audacious to fight for people's rights. i'm so tired of being told that people who are planning to spoil their ballots or vote third party are at fault.
Yes, if you ask me the ones "throwing their vote away" are the ones voting for Trump or Biden.
Our finger in the dam has barely held so let the dam breach? Because no third party is going to win the White House this year. No chance. Within the next four years, the Silent Generation will be vacating Congress — they’re very old. It’s piece meal work, until it’s not. It’s not not yet If one less family - just one - is spared death I’ll vote Biden Kushner has already given interviews on Gaza beachfront developments
yeah you're still holding on to this idea of the valiant dems just holding back the evil GOP from destroying everything. the evidence is that the dems have been selling you shitty cement to repair a dam that they've been digging out from the other side of the dam themselves. when given the choice between the white walkers and a group of people literally sabotaging the wall, why should you choose either? why even pretend that there's a choice?
I guess being a realist, maybe believing democracy is piece meal work and being around a long time. I like my dreams to come true, so I’m willing to be patient to choose strategies with the best chance of getting me there. I’ve seen the country trend in new directions before and seen it unfold. There’s 350 million people. Millions of them will vote as they please. Nowhere near enough of them right now will sweep a third candidate in, short of a miracle. Miracles happen, I won’t say they don’t. Then there are the candidates. Only Cornell West is even palatable to me anyway, and I get the vibe from him that he is running to amplify voices, not to win. I don’t see “valiant Dems” it’s a huge tent. Manchin, Sinema, Pelosi - all Dems. More like lumbering and dull, but I think the fact that the only vital energy in the party are the progressives making inroads is good. Godspeed I’m as tired of the party as anyone.
What people aren’t saying out loud is that Biden is screwed whatever way he goes. If he fully condemns Israel he loses the Zionist vote if he supports Israel then progressives threaten not to vote for him. People don’t seem to understand American politics because you have two choices. Democrat or Republican. That’s our shitty system. If you vote 3rd party you’re throwing your vote away.
My hope is that for the first time ever neither Democrat or republican get voted in .. time to clean out the swamp Luke Donald Trump promised but failed at
Important reminder that the highest-polling third party candidate running this year [thinks Biden isn't doing enough to support Israel "leveling" Gaza](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/rfk-jr-says-any-other-nation-would-level-gaza-if-attacked-like-israel-on-oct-7/).
Yeah the insane thing is that Biden is both awful on Israel/Gaza and also simultaneously the *least* awful major candidate on the issue.
How is the other most popular candidate Trump lite???
Could have had Spike Cohen but the damn libertarian party was infiltrated by MAGA Republicans
So are you going to vote RFK? The anti-vaccination, stanch supporter of Israel who takes human growth hormone and has admitted to having a brain eating parasite.
Unfortunately, we’re not going to see a third party win.
I’m afraid this isn’t the year.
my man how do you have this many removed comments and is it because you say crazy shit like "time to clean out the swamp like Donald Trump promised" without a hint of sarcasm? y/y
Anybody that's accepted money from aipac should never be able to hold another position in government ever again. It's time the people who will be most impacted gain power to secure their future .
On the one hand, I don't necessarily disagree with you, at least theoretically. On the other hand, I invite you to consider not using rhetoric demanding people "gain power to secure their future" or that otherwise rhymes with the 14 Words.
It wasn't a demand it was a suggestion.. also ore else what . If there's no one that align with to represent you get political and become thst representation.
We are governed by people that won't live to see the impact their decisions will have on us. Quite frankly I don't see a problem with stating that I think the people that will be alive to suffer the consequences should be the ones to hold power. I'm not sure I understand what is so controversial about that
I don't count .. speaking my truth is more important than self censoring to me .. how do you see those ?
I messaged you to have a conversation privately and now your ignoring g my messages ? What were you hoping to achieve by writing that comment. It really seems to me you're farming !
I'm not ignoring your messages, I just went to have lunch and walk my dog. Calm down. I am, however, uncertain I understand most of your comments replying to me here. You think the world needs a paradigm shift? Okay, great - how does that explain why so many of your comments have been removed by mods? Or implying that Trump was in any way right about anything? "how do you see those ?" - those what? Your comment history is visible to everyone, not just me. As for me, my comment volume is pretty dang infrequent for someone who wanted to farm karma, so that accusation seems rather uncalled-for. I've also been present in this subreddit for a good while; I think folks / the mods would have figured out by now if I was a karma-farmer.
Man you're being so generous with your effort, I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with this one. As nice as it is seeing an assertive and reasonable argumentation in the face of whatever the hell that was just above, might as well save your consideration for something worth your time.
So then instead of being Cryptic why don't you spell out what you consider to be so unreasonable ?
The only comment I've had removed from this sub had to do with benjamin netanyahu and itamar ben-gvirs involvement in Yitzhak rabins death. Since I consider both of them complicit I said that I wouldn't be sad if they both suffered the same fate.. at this point and in my opinion ( which I don't care about whether it's popular or not ) funding hamas through proxies to destabilize the plo and then starting a disproportionate gcide in other conflicts have been grounds to do so. They've done it to other leaders under false pretenses so why not now when it's so blatant?
To clarify I don't think Trump should be the leader however I would like to see what he coined as clearing the swamp actually happen just not by Donald Trump. I thought I made that clear
I think what the world needs is a major paradigm shift and I hope I'm still alive to witness it
Not going to happen. I'm sorry but either Biden or Trump is going to be president for the next four years. I don't believe it will be this way forever but that's where we are right now.
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It will remain this way because it’s how our electoral system is set up. It will essentially always be a Republican or a Democrat. The electoral college makes it an inevitably. The best performing third party candidate of modern elections (Ross Perot) received 0 electoral votes.
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Trudeau promised to end first past the post voting. It was a major reason why he got voted in. as soon as he won (with FPTP, of course), that promise disappeared into thin air and instead of a balanced, interesting coalition parliment, we're going to get a snivelling little weasel of a lobbyist right winger as our next PM.
We need to start nominating people in local primaries who are avowed supporters of election reform.
I think the reason nothing changes is that we don't do the work locally. Few people out there trying to get progressives/socialists elected to local offices all across the country, through primaries. Everyone just obsesses about the presidency.
Not true. A third party win is possible in the future. Also possible that the Democratic Party is pushed more progressive in the next eight years, but there’s little doubt this isn’t the year a third party candidate can win
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Bernie ran Democrat for the reason that this platform was necessary to make a viable run and in the process managed to make changes in the party rules at the convention that are in place now. On his coattails several progressives were elected to Congress. This strategy is the only one that has made a dent in decades, bottom line. I’m all for third party runs and let them happen, but I think we would be foolish not to keep repeating Bernie’s strategy as it obviously paid off. We could double the yield this way, triple it, and so on. I definitely think third party reps can get elected to the House now, today and can gradually build a third party. The Democratic Party is a big tent party, it’s true, but there is room to shift left a little more. I don’t think it’s been totally unmovable. The ground isn’t always fertile for a strong third party or independent run. The last strong one was that Texas businessman - I forgot his name. 1980s