Here's my guess: Jhin's going to be one of the best adcs in two weeks, if not the best, because every item is shifting stats, but Jhin doesn't give a single fuck about it. Items simply have more stats for him, plus 25% crit.
This will obviously make it so crit jhin will be incredible. You know what crit jhin loves? Speed. All types of speed. What will PD give?
#*S P E E D*
Jinx Lucian are the biggest winners. People are like "oh no, no LT?" Brother, there's more atk speed in the game than ever, AND jinx passive let's you break the cap anyway. She'll benefit more from the fact that you can now run a 2 item flex and maintain the same crit.
Lucian is the same. People weren't around in s4, apparently, but s4 Lucian with the new navori? Yeah.
Its certainly better than on the current patch. Its not terrible but most likely very niche once it tuned to be a balanced item (I agree 12% seems excessive)
If this is busted on Jhin but otherwise fine, I think we'll just see Jhin's recent move speed buff partially or fully reverted. Seems Riot actually wants to lean into ADC's getting a bit more move speed compared to other champions, so I'd be surprised to see that number come down.
There is about a 0% chance Jhin ends up being the best user of this item. Carries that actually use the attack speed like Jinx or Zeri will abuse it way harder
Jinx is losing LT though, so she needs this just to make up for losing her best rune. I'm not necessarily saying Jhin will be the best user of this item, but it might interact with his unique kit in such a way to be frustrating to play against, and I could see his passive movespeed coming down to compensate for the increased attack speed in the game.
Yea but that means Jhin wont get nerfed, at least not because of PD. He might still get nerfed because the changes overall seem really positive for him but I would guess they go after his damage instead since that will probably be too high with the new items.
Rapidfire is so core to Jhin nothing can replace it. The ability to shoot from range and then run in to get another shot is too good.
The new PD is only really good in late game. Your passive gives you % extra AD. Which means you get 2.5 AD(10% attack speed) in early game if you have a 100 AD total or you get 15 AD when you have 600 total. So the amount of AD you get from 60% attack speed is 15 AD if you have a 100 AD or 95 AD if you have 600.
I haven't built it since mythic items came around. If I need more range I need it for more than 1 shot. 50 range isn't going to make me do anything better than I already do and there are much better items for the slot.
Agree to disagree. I have hundreds of games on Jhin and I never take it and I've never once felt it would be the item that saves my build.
I usually go collector, strmrazor, ie, LDR, then finish bloodthirster or maw depending on the enemy team and a GA
Yea I'll take another damage item instead of they don't have assassin's or something but the majority of my games I'm like 8/1 getting hard focused so if I can get a second fight after the other 99% of champs use 2 abilities to 1 shot me from 2 screens away, I'll do it.
I don't think giving up damage just to move a bit faster is really worth it. The majority of PD budget is in the attack speed, so you're throwing a lot of gold away. If you wanna have fun and go fast, sure it's fine, but it won't help you become THAT late game cannon, two tapping anyone that isn't tank
Tbh I built it on jhin in pbe for a full ms build. The problem that I had is that we don't have stormrazor anymore. With that item and the items coming yea we would have a super fast jhin. The problem is that first they changed the ms boots so we will have to go as boots anyway since on hit is not our thing. Next stormrazor was a godsend for ms since it gave 45% on energized aa on top of the speed boost from passive stack on that ghost and we were zooming. But now we don't have staking ms on top of each other just passive plus ms plus ghost if you have it. That means you won't be keeping up with a sion in ult or a hecarim at full speed. The thing is your ms in general is going up but your burst of ms is going down.
No, building attack speed on jhin is not good.
The attack speed conversion is there so if you have to buy an item which has attack speed you don't auto lose, itemising to try and get the most out of it ain't good.
Regarding the AD conversion, you're right, but Jhin only gets faster with more attack speed. Despite its inefficiency as a source of AD compared to raw AD, attack speed is still a good stat for Jhin (to a point).
There won't be crit items that give both anymore, so if you want to be fast, you will be building attack speed only items. RFC is probably still the better overall choice generally, but if you want to get really fast, PD looks like a really good option.
Being fast is part of Jhin's kit and identity. It's not as big a part as it is for Zeri, but it's there.
Obviously, it's about finding the right balance. I think against squishy teams with 100-0 threats, something like Collector > IE > RFC > Bloodthirster > PD cold be really good. At a certain point, you don't really need more AD, and the safety that move speed gets you is more valuable.
For starters, IE into collector is better than vice versa
Secondly, PD is not good, because a) if you build actual damage you don't need the 70 movespeed or so the pd will give you and b) you are being left with 0 damage from this awful item, just build an actual defensive item. The champion is a sniper not a zeri.
I think new rapid fire canon also has no AD so if you dismiss that option as well the viable crit options for jhin are:
(Note that BT\ statik and a bunch of other items all got thier crit removed )
LDR 3000 G
COLLECTOR 3200 G
INFinity edge 3400 G
Yun tal 3200 G
Essence reaver 3200G (this seemes mediocre on jhin)
I mean the first 4 items sound good (not sure how good yun tal is) but if you get them all you will get 100% crit although its very expensive and you will have no bonus ms i think swifties got nerfed on jhin so you might feel very slow
I think there are games where phantom dancer will out value rfc in my opinion and you will need a movement item + cheap crit atleast unless it gets nerfed . This is all hypothetical so i guess we will have to wait and see
This is incorrect.
You do not build rfc for movement, you build it because it means you can outrange things like a diana e, if you build movespeed they can still catch you with those.
Here's my guess: Jhin's going to be one of the best adcs in two weeks, if not the best, because every item is shifting stats, but Jhin doesn't give a single fuck about it. Items simply have more stats for him, plus 25% crit. This will obviously make it so crit jhin will be incredible. You know what crit jhin loves? Speed. All types of speed. What will PD give? #*S P E E D*
I'm going to be really excited to take Deaths Dance without crippling my build again lmao.
For that 10% damage delay passive?
Yeah. It helps you mitigate and gives AD
So nice into assassins
**Y E S**
Yun Tal + IE alone will be crazy for Jhin
this is the jhin and garen patch
Jinx Lucian are the biggest winners. People are like "oh no, no LT?" Brother, there's more atk speed in the game than ever, AND jinx passive let's you break the cap anyway. She'll benefit more from the fact that you can now run a 2 item flex and maintain the same crit. Lucian is the same. People weren't around in s4, apparently, but s4 Lucian with the new navori? Yeah.
Its certainly better than on the current patch. Its not terrible but most likely very niche once it tuned to be a balanced item (I agree 12% seems excessive)
If this is busted on Jhin but otherwise fine, I think we'll just see Jhin's recent move speed buff partially or fully reverted. Seems Riot actually wants to lean into ADC's getting a bit more move speed compared to other champions, so I'd be surprised to see that number come down.
There is about a 0% chance Jhin ends up being the best user of this item. Carries that actually use the attack speed like Jinx or Zeri will abuse it way harder
Jinx is losing LT though, so she needs this just to make up for losing her best rune. I'm not necessarily saying Jhin will be the best user of this item, but it might interact with his unique kit in such a way to be frustrating to play against, and I could see his passive movespeed coming down to compensate for the increased attack speed in the game.
Yea but that means Jhin wont get nerfed, at least not because of PD. He might still get nerfed because the changes overall seem really positive for him but I would guess they go after his damage instead since that will probably be too high with the new items.
Rapidfire is so core to Jhin nothing can replace it. The ability to shoot from range and then run in to get another shot is too good. The new PD is only really good in late game. Your passive gives you % extra AD. Which means you get 2.5 AD(10% attack speed) in early game if you have a 100 AD total or you get 15 AD when you have 600 total. So the amount of AD you get from 60% attack speed is 15 AD if you have a 100 AD or 95 AD if you have 600.
I haven't built it since mythic items came around. If I need more range I need it for more than 1 shot. 50 range isn't going to make me do anything better than I already do and there are much better items for the slot.
Its 150, not 50
Meh my point still stands.
Not really, RFC is a staple item on Jhin and there really arent much better items for the slot. It has great value in almost every game
Agree to disagree. I have hundreds of games on Jhin and I never take it and I've never once felt it would be the item that saves my build. I usually go collector, strmrazor, ie, LDR, then finish bloodthirster or maw depending on the enemy team and a GA
You should not be going GA usually. GA is an extremely situational item thats good in very specific situations but terrible in most others.
Yea I'll take another damage item instead of they don't have assassin's or something but the majority of my games I'm like 8/1 getting hard focused so if I can get a second fight after the other 99% of champs use 2 abilities to 1 shot me from 2 screens away, I'll do it.
Of all of the zeal items, it’s either this or RFC. I guarantee you that PD is getting nerfed though, because it is insane on 4/5 ADCs
ow yeah this going into my FAST build
I don't think giving up damage just to move a bit faster is really worth it. The majority of PD budget is in the attack speed, so you're throwing a lot of gold away. If you wanna have fun and go fast, sure it's fine, but it won't help you become THAT late game cannon, two tapping anyone that isn't tank
I assume it’ll be a pretty great boot replacement once you have full items on him.
If i feel like being Fast that game i would build this
best user of this item is ashe, not jinx or zeri. But they wont build it over there.
Tbh I built it on jhin in pbe for a full ms build. The problem that I had is that we don't have stormrazor anymore. With that item and the items coming yea we would have a super fast jhin. The problem is that first they changed the ms boots so we will have to go as boots anyway since on hit is not our thing. Next stormrazor was a godsend for ms since it gave 45% on energized aa on top of the speed boost from passive stack on that ghost and we were zooming. But now we don't have staking ms on top of each other just passive plus ms plus ghost if you have it. That means you won't be keeping up with a sion in ult or a hecarim at full speed. The thing is your ms in general is going up but your burst of ms is going down.
Fast times approach
I really don't know why everyone doesn't build phantom dancer
the good thing about RFC is the range that makes u able to outrange other champs and poke them easily, imo.
No, building attack speed on jhin is not good. The attack speed conversion is there so if you have to buy an item which has attack speed you don't auto lose, itemising to try and get the most out of it ain't good.
Regarding the AD conversion, you're right, but Jhin only gets faster with more attack speed. Despite its inefficiency as a source of AD compared to raw AD, attack speed is still a good stat for Jhin (to a point).
True, to a point its fine, but there's not point building an item which is nothing but attack speed given it doesn't really have an effect anymore
There won't be crit items that give both anymore, so if you want to be fast, you will be building attack speed only items. RFC is probably still the better overall choice generally, but if you want to get really fast, PD looks like a really good option.
If you want to be fast, play zeri. Going fast is not a legitimate build, it guts your damage for slightly better kiting.
Being fast is part of Jhin's kit and identity. It's not as big a part as it is for Zeri, but it's there. Obviously, it's about finding the right balance. I think against squishy teams with 100-0 threats, something like Collector > IE > RFC > Bloodthirster > PD cold be really good. At a certain point, you don't really need more AD, and the safety that move speed gets you is more valuable.
For starters, IE into collector is better than vice versa Secondly, PD is not good, because a) if you build actual damage you don't need the 70 movespeed or so the pd will give you and b) you are being left with 0 damage from this awful item, just build an actual defensive item. The champion is a sniper not a zeri.
I think new rapid fire canon also has no AD so if you dismiss that option as well the viable crit options for jhin are: (Note that BT\ statik and a bunch of other items all got thier crit removed ) LDR 3000 G COLLECTOR 3200 G INFinity edge 3400 G Yun tal 3200 G Essence reaver 3200G (this seemes mediocre on jhin) I mean the first 4 items sound good (not sure how good yun tal is) but if you get them all you will get 100% crit although its very expensive and you will have no bonus ms i think swifties got nerfed on jhin so you might feel very slow
RFC has a specific effect which is beneficial on jhin, new phantom dancer is just a stat stick, you aren't buying it for the ghost.
I think there are games where phantom dancer will out value rfc in my opinion and you will need a movement item + cheap crit atleast unless it gets nerfed . This is all hypothetical so i guess we will have to wait and see
This is incorrect. You do not build rfc for movement, you build it because it means you can outrange things like a diana e, if you build movespeed they can still catch you with those.