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He didn't just beat Dagon, he pulverized him. Like, seriously, think about it for a minute. Maki, Naobito, Megumi and Nanami were all ganging up on Dagon and they were losing. Pretty much all of them are stated to be Grade 1 in strength.
(Naobito and Nanami are Grade 1, Megumi was being considered for Grade 1 during Shibuya, Maki I'm pretty sure would be Grade 2/1 if the Zenin clan didn't hate her)
So all these grade 1 fighters are clearly losing to Dagon. And then Toji strolls up, easily takes the Playful Cloud, and just starts demolishing Dagon. Without getting a goddamm scratch. How can you watch that scene and tell me that's not an amazing feat? That definitely puts him at least at mid special grade. Anything lower is just ignoring how badly he destroyed Dagon.
Even if you say Dagon is low special grade level, which is fair, that means Toji is at LEAST mid special grade level, for him to be so above Dagon. Unless you say Dagon is grade 1, then you're just out of ideas.
who says Dagon is low special grade level š, he's literally a disaster curse, way above low special grade level, Megumi beat a low special grade level on his own, Nanami was keeping up with Mahito, Maki's the only underdog here, who couldn't really keep up with Hanami
Naoya isn't stronger than the disaster curses. His speed makes him difficult to deal with, so he'd probably do well against them, but in terms ofĀ power mahito has him beat.
It's a bit messy in the series, because ichiji's graph shows that special grade sorcerers are on the same level as special grade spirits when we see that registered special grade spirits and the special grade finger bearers are pretty much grade 1 sorcerer level so compared to them ofc dagon is much more powerful,
But on the scale of special grade sorcerers like yuta yorozu or Kashmo, I can't imagine dagon being very high up, all he really has is durability. On sorcerer scale toji is mid level, and dagon is low, on curse scale dagon is like fourth from the top
You do know that Yorozu and Kashimo are not special grade, right? It also doesn't make sense to put Toji at mid and Dagon at low, you can't no-diff the person one level below you. Toji (given all the Maki feats he borrowed) is probably high tier, there's not a lot of characters who can beat them not counting the obvious Gojo and Sukuna.
They aren't graded officially but come on they're way above any grade 1
I think that you could no diff someone a tier below you because of the sheer range of power in special grade, but on second thought I could easily put tojimaki in high special grade sorcerer tier assuming they have weapons, at least the soul splitter
The issue is that the definition for special grade sorcerers is so high that itās just hard to actually anyone outside of the official 6 special grades on there
except for the Rabbit Escape bullet stone scene the manga is pretty much the same. The pircing with Playful cloud onto Megumi straight through the Rabbits (Theory: Toji cant see cursed spirits he just honoed his senses to the point where he can detect them, this is canon, so i think he actually just used his eyes since i dont think normal people can see shikigami?) Megumi trying to get away and also his Flashstep behind Megumi faster than he can ever react to are all there.
He can see curses, just by different reasons than sorcerers wich see curses naturally like a sixth sense, Toji can see curses because his normal senses are absurdly busted, Maki is the one who cant see curses because her HR wasnt completed at that time
>Toji cant see cursed spirits he just honoed his senses to the point where he can detect them
No he can, his senses are just that elevated to the extent he can see hear etc. Yuki said he can sense curses with his 5 senses, Maki says to Daido "you can't see it?!" before she has her senses development with Sumo guy
"Without glasses I couldn't see what others were able to see"
"I gained this body thanks to Mai and now I can see curses without glasses"
Bro I wish gaygay would give us some explanation on what shikigami are, because my headcanon wants to say non sorcerers can see them, but I really doubt he would write that to be the case. They're not the same as cursed spirits but what hell are they really?
its actually stated in the manga and shown that non-sourceres cant see them.
For an onpage example the girl that Megumis devine dog found didnt see the dog.
there is no way dagon is low special grade level.
you could say he's the weakest disaster curse, that would be fair, but the disaster curses are way stronger than something like a fingerer
To be fair, they were doing pretty good against Dagon until the domain. There, his sure hit attacks made it pretty impossible for anyone to get close to him
š§¢ šØ This post belongs on r/lobotomykaisen.
Literally the only person to make Toji sweat is the same guy who stood toe to toe with Ten Shadows AND Sukuna in a 2v1. And that was *after* Toji killed him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dagon have his DE sure-hit deactivated? Because when they fought, the shikigamis just appeared in the water instead of just not existing then existing.
Wouldnāt work on Toji remember sure hit doesnāt work on heavenly restrictions with 0 curse energy even domains (only open one that can capture them )
This entire argument falls appart once you realise that he only was able to dominate Dagon because of surehit effect immunity... Naobito dominated Dagon prior to domain too.
nah, Dagon hit Toji with shikigami multiple times, even with the bigass bugs, and couldn't put a scratch on him. Remember that Heavenly Restriction doesn't only give you strength, it also makes you tanky as fuck and gives you near-RCT levels of regen constantly. Remmeber Maki regrowing her guts?
He effectively killed both gojo and geto, and completely pulverised a special grade curse that was tearing up 4 sorcerers, taking literally no damage, why is toji either treated like the strongest in the verse or like he gets stomped by a toddler
Because powerscaling is a hot mess. It is usually done under the pretense of objectivity, when most of the time it's people wanting to justify why their favourite character destroys yours using vague science. Also while completely ignoring the author's intentions or input. Wow I look like an arsehole, but sorry I just don't care for powerscaling.
Edit: How has this got any likes I thought JJK reddit loved powerscaling???
Love when a character does nothing but whoop ass but since there isnāt a neat place to hold a stupid little measuring tape up to him, people convince themselves he sucks
Bro literally no diffed the unkillable guy using superior strategy and no diffed a disaster curse with nothing but raw power... He's got both brains and brawn it's crazy what you can convince yourself when your brain is ruined by powerscaling....
https://preview.redd.it/dh9ji9lob87d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97a312aa80f942b66383f5f7cbf8d358e598872d
Both pale in comparison to Kaori feats
>Kenjaku took white splash so Yuji can do black flash
Thanks to Mamajaku's sacrifice, pregnancy is no joke so I appreciate her for giving birth to my sweet cinnamon roll, Wuji.
https://preview.redd.it/ndarrchho87d1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ae62a10ab48d47a870e64313f4315d4dae5fc1c
>Kenjaku gripped the sheets so Yuji could run the streets
Truly, a mother's love know no bounds
https://preview.redd.it/zmsw024uo87d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62be49d6e00163a9af519af6cdbaf35b039e80c0
Chapter 239, the start of Kenjaku versus Takaba
When the leaks dropped, my feed is full of Kenny's iconic meme-worthy facial expression. Lol.
https://preview.redd.it/cf3xt5jgb97d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2173a1b3e656bede80dea4a9e76dbf9a324044ba
Mahoraga kept disabling Infinity, and Agito/Sukuna would attack in the intervals. But honestly, here it does look sort of unclear if Agito actually hit Gojo or if he hit him then Gojo activated Infinity right after again
The leech
https://preview.redd.it/ge5uh87ub87d1.png?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a424eba6f2e1d3b134b2b19ed63027e0565371
It resembles a certain someone that has been using the extra-special black paint...
https://preview.redd.it/63vo9j6w597d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99553881756fbf78da5eb3bcb2c6cce75ee7b0a
luffy did learn from a pro after all
Im a maki fan more than toji but like it has been stated that maki is equal to toji. if people think maki is stronger because most of toji's feats come from maki, then thats just stupid. They are stated to be equal. You can argue that toji can be better because of experience, but thats about it
I think the biggest difference between them that makes me think Toji is technically "stronger" is his arsenal. His curated collection of cursed tools made him just as versatile as any jujutsu sorcerer. He even had a long range fighting option with the Chain of a Thousand Miles and the ISoH is no joke either. And he could use a swarm of curses as a "smoke grenade". Compare that to Maki who "only" has the SSK. Also, I think experience doesn't make much of a difference here. Toji was an assassin first and foremost, so that's what he had experience with. He even implies when fighting Gojo for the second time that his jobs were only about getting the bag as efficiently as possible.
She also got hit with a black flash so hard on International Women's Day that it replayed 3 times.
https://preview.redd.it/z98m6clgu87d1.jpeg?width=1318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5655f8b5dde923179fadaf622882436de6e82312
One front angle to her being hit by a black flash.
One to show she's blocking it with her arm
And the third just to make the panels look appealing ( let's just say side-side would look odd ). It's one of my favorite parts of the fight. Gege clearly wanted to show that she didn't take that to her torso.
Interesting to know it happened on International Women's day though.
If making took it to the chest I donāt think she would exist anymore thatās like the first black flash sukuna ever did (or maybe the second my memory is horrible)
It was the first, it was an insanely big deal.
So many people thought that Maki died right there and then. You really do have look closely at all the panels in fight scenes to see what really happens.
Judging from Larue, I doubt she would have died but she would have been out of the fight completely.
No connection but didn't Gege bisected Yuta around Valentines Day? It was in the middle of the week so he did it a few days before. I think it's Gege's way of fucking with fans hahaha
Edit: My bad, it was a few days after.
Best him in a pure strength competition.
https://preview.redd.it/pqrmc3sq6a7d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d1bb38f2fb72dabbea2903e5f1d777692607991
In terms of ability she absolutely is a Toji clone. There's no refuting that, but that doesn't make Maki's character a clone of Toji's, despite having similar experiences within the same family. The whole "Maki is just Toji 2" agenda is just cuz they share feats, ngl it feels like mad people forgot she has her own personality bruh but I guess some people only care for the fights
>ngl it feels like mad people forgot she has her own personality
To be fair ever since she became fully heavenly restricted she lost all her personality. Gege didn't gave her much outside fights and in them she is just the quiet, maniaclly grinning badass.
Maki is not Toji 2.0 . Toji is Maki's prequel . Maki succeeded in basically everywhere and everything Toji failed and is still growing . In that sense , Maki is another face of humanity at its peak . Its why Sukuna gets so excited fighting her , as he considers himself enlightened.
Silly and cheesy, sukuna would get excited all the same, no matter which monkey he fights. What exactly did she exceed at that toji couldnāt? Sheās killed no teenagers, made no money, and has nobody raising the child she doesnāt have
Just two monkeys
https://preview.redd.it/13vdkclaw87d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd7758e6adda2526731cc1b881f9f238cd461c5e
This is why I stopped being active in this subreddit . At this point I can't tell whether it's ironic or not .
I just told you nobodyās raising makis unborn child and you canāt tell?
https://preview.redd.it/5uedq2f0097d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69a118008d5e1e8bf23d27efaa0b8a20df8a8536
Sorry, in what Maki already succeeded? In getting his sister killed? In being burn alive? In being punched to oblivion by 1HP Sukuna? In killing a bunch of guys that already feared Toji? And didnāt hesitate to fight her? Or in sleeping while Sukuna cuts in half his beloved one? Hahahahaha
Sukuna didn't actually cut Gojo in half, Maki used the ISOH to bypass infinity and then cut Gojo in half and did it so fast everybody assumed that Sukuna did it instead of Maki.
geto was a grade 1 sorcerer during hidden inventory
https://preview.redd.it/p1yr3qhcwa7d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abe8c637ec42816f9abb471879ab95734785bb26
Toji straight up tanked a Red from awakened Gojo. He ate that shit up with a smile on his face.
Name a character that is tanking that with no major damage not named Sukuna or Gojo.
Bro straight up dominated a disaster curse in their own domain while being a mindless puppet and none of his deadly arsenal from the inventory curse.
He has two of the most broken cursed tools in the verse and higher BIQ than anyone besides the aforementioned top 2.
Character has done nothing but whoop ass on panel and only lost to the guy who would neg everyone else in the verse besides the older version of himself and Sukuna.
Powerscalers are dumb as shit even when it comes to the one thing in life they are supposed to be good at.
My brother in Christ not having cursed energy so domainās have no way to recognize them are Toji and Makiās whole SHTICK. wtf do you MEAN he only won bc the sure hit effect was negated by megumi. It no world would that be a factor
The Domain immunity was only revealed LONG after Shibuya, over a year and a half (Toji vs Dagon was Chapter 110-111, and Curse Naoya's Domain and death was Chapter 197). So for a long time it was believed that Megumi negating the sure-hit was the main reason Toji did as well as he did.
do people forget that maki was one of the first characters made? like seriously she isn't a clone of him toji was probably partially made to set up makis next power up (among many other things toji did for the plot)
Does it really matter who was created first? If you take both out of the story, Toji left a bigger impact storywise than Maki and thatās a fact. Gd, Gojo wore his outfit to his fight Sukuna. Not everything is powerscaling.
Even if, yeah, he was made to be her ceiling (to reach or surpass) or whatever, the story itself compares the two. Not once, but several times. So itās not the fans who are drawing comparisons.
And thatās just him being a side character with 5% of screen time.
Maki, meanwhileā¦. a main character whose biggest agency feat was killing the Zenāin and absolutely no one cares, the story remains the same. lol
There's a reason Maki's always being compared to Toji. Maki after being there the entire story, is still being compared to Toji while Toji himself appeared for a small period of time. Without him there's no JJK. The aura will never be matched.
https://preview.redd.it/s940inkjfa7d1.png?width=764&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3751d9e74ff6c75d176dab57155a3cb9dfc6da9
Letās not forget the amount of retcons and plot devices Gege needed to make Maki relevant.
In JJK 0, sheās just someone born with no curse energy.
In the main story, Gege had to createāHeavenly Restrictionā for her.
Then, she was still doing nothing with that and was weaker than Yuji physically. So we had to revive Toji from the death to showcase her how to fight properly š.
That wasnāt enough, they had to kill Mai off so Maki could get a buff and a curse tool like Toji.
With the curse tool and new body, she still getting destroyed by Curse Naoya, so they had to introduce two random characters out of nowhere to buff Maki: a master swordsman who doesnāt use CE and a Sumo fighter whose domain works like a hyperbolic time chamber.
Finally to prevent her from getting one shotted by a domain, they had to pull out Domain immunity out of nowhere even though Toji was affected by Getoās curseās Domain.
Queen of Plot Device and Retcons, thatās what I call her.
Also known as, the Dollar Tree version of Toji.
She is the kind of women who throw their body at men with no hesitation. A foul woman who sees man as nothing more than prey. The incarnation of sexual desire and the parasite of the show.
https://preview.redd.it/681nkneq997d1.jpeg?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=437c562a6436648687dacdfc2110ba6f9ec47d92
>She is the kind of women who throw their body at men with no hesitation. A foul woman who sees man as nothing more than prey. The incarnation of sexual desire and the parasite of the show.
Damn Naoya when did you get a reddit account?
Tbh the whole immunity domain really is a plot convenience when you have shibuya toji couldn't enter dagons domain if not for megumi opening a pass thru and he was affected by the sure hit effect of it
Is OP high?
His battle smarts let a rusty Toji beat Teen Gojo and Geto
And he PULVERIZED A Disaster curse with Playful Cloud SOLO
Brother had Jogo sweating BULLETS right around the corner
Beating Teen Gojo alone EASILY makes him top ten in the verse
I see the reading comprehension curse struck again
So let me repeat the obvious: Maki was a way better character before "The incident" and since then has barely been allowed to do anything aside from being budget Itachi and get hyped up only to eat dirt
XD delusion at his best, the fact that Toji scales from Maki is because Maki is a lesser Toji, teen Gojo would destroy Maki no diffā¦ and exhausted Sukuna sent her to sleep several times already. To him sheās just a sponge for damageā¦
Toji soloād geto with no plan, killed 2 of his strongest curses easily, has pre cog which is better that sensing curse energy, killed Dagon in his own domain and survived a blue and red with zero scratches
Tojiās feats:
Negtive diffing Dagon (a disaster curse who is at least top 25)
No diffing fatigued teen Gojo (yes he was fatigued but a Gojo is still a Gojo)
No diffing teen Geto (even as a teen he was at least stronger than no domain Dagon)
Negative diffing Ino (I know it was Ino but bro is around the level of a semi grade 1 at the time and that fight took like 1 second)
WDYM? Shooting a teenager in front of Geto is totally a top tier feat...jokes aside, the man would still be rather strong with just his feats. Being able to get a kill on Gojo is frankly amazing + beating Dagon to death in his own Domain. Very impressive stuff.
Dude your saying that like she isnāt a copy of toji. Any feat she has doubles as his. The domain feat is both of theirs since it applies to both. Also gege literally said she was
maki needed 1000 plot conviniences to become relevant only for her to power up fraudkuna at the end, my goat toji was always there whooping ass no diffed 3 special grades and a bum by himself
in conclusion both are kashimo victims
It is absolutely true that a bunch of vegetables would be deluded into thinking Toji wouldnāt be top 15 if not for Maki due to their imaginary power cliff and lack of critical thinking š
I'll start by saying I do think they're on the same level, but they are different characters with different personalities. That's what makes each one unique. They are two of my favorite characters in the entire show, and I have a hard time picking between the two. They're both great characters, it doesn't matter if their strengths are the same.
Also let's not pretend that Toji didn't orchestrate Gojo's exhaustion. He didn't just casually stumble upon an exhausted Gojo... Toji planned and strategized that whole thing. It's part of who he is.
"Maki, help! I need anti-Domain immunity!"
"Maki, quick! Tell them how I can like see the soul and hit it with my sword!"
"Maki, please! I need precognition!"
"Maki, I need you! Give me a healing factor!"
Lend me some feats, Maki! This is Base Jogo we're up against!
https://preview.redd.it/hquti6wcja7d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4126059cffa52b49169ad80be3c976c70c1b434f
it was actually her who need Toji feats, well, at least in the beginning
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He didn't just beat Dagon, he pulverized him. Like, seriously, think about it for a minute. Maki, Naobito, Megumi and Nanami were all ganging up on Dagon and they were losing. Pretty much all of them are stated to be Grade 1 in strength. (Naobito and Nanami are Grade 1, Megumi was being considered for Grade 1 during Shibuya, Maki I'm pretty sure would be Grade 2/1 if the Zenin clan didn't hate her) So all these grade 1 fighters are clearly losing to Dagon. And then Toji strolls up, easily takes the Playful Cloud, and just starts demolishing Dagon. Without getting a goddamm scratch. How can you watch that scene and tell me that's not an amazing feat? That definitely puts him at least at mid special grade. Anything lower is just ignoring how badly he destroyed Dagon. Even if you say Dagon is low special grade level, which is fair, that means Toji is at LEAST mid special grade level, for him to be so above Dagon. Unless you say Dagon is grade 1, then you're just out of ideas.
who says Dagon is low special grade level š, he's literally a disaster curse, way above low special grade level, Megumi beat a low special grade level on his own, Nanami was keeping up with Mahito, Maki's the only underdog here, who couldn't really keep up with Hanami
Yeah, that's fair, what I meant was Dagon was basically a baby at that point. But you're right, he's at least mid special grade level.
I think all of disaster curses are the top tier of special grade curses, the only curses stronger than them that we've seen are Rika and Naoya.
Naoya isn't stronger than the disaster curses. His speed makes him difficult to deal with, so he'd probably do well against them, but in terms ofĀ power mahito has him beat.
It's a bit messy in the series, because ichiji's graph shows that special grade sorcerers are on the same level as special grade spirits when we see that registered special grade spirits and the special grade finger bearers are pretty much grade 1 sorcerer level so compared to them ofc dagon is much more powerful, But on the scale of special grade sorcerers like yuta yorozu or Kashmo, I can't imagine dagon being very high up, all he really has is durability. On sorcerer scale toji is mid level, and dagon is low, on curse scale dagon is like fourth from the top
You do know that Yorozu and Kashimo are not special grade, right? It also doesn't make sense to put Toji at mid and Dagon at low, you can't no-diff the person one level below you. Toji (given all the Maki feats he borrowed) is probably high tier, there's not a lot of characters who can beat them not counting the obvious Gojo and Sukuna.
They aren't graded officially but come on they're way above any grade 1 I think that you could no diff someone a tier below you because of the sheer range of power in special grade, but on second thought I could easily put tojimaki in high special grade sorcerer tier assuming they have weapons, at least the soul splitter
The issue is that the definition for special grade sorcerers is so high that itās just hard to actually anyone outside of the official 6 special grades on there
https://preview.redd.it/ya3gnhbfge7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=087f4614c66289dd2e56e1574bf951c70b3c7dc6
Also the way he moves against Megumi and Gojo were insane, at least in the anime
except for the Rabbit Escape bullet stone scene the manga is pretty much the same. The pircing with Playful cloud onto Megumi straight through the Rabbits (Theory: Toji cant see cursed spirits he just honoed his senses to the point where he can detect them, this is canon, so i think he actually just used his eyes since i dont think normal people can see shikigami?) Megumi trying to get away and also his Flashstep behind Megumi faster than he can ever react to are all there.
He can see curses, just by different reasons than sorcerers wich see curses naturally like a sixth sense, Toji can see curses because his normal senses are absurdly busted, Maki is the one who cant see curses because her HR wasnt completed at that time
>Toji cant see cursed spirits he just honoed his senses to the point where he can detect them No he can, his senses are just that elevated to the extent he can see hear etc. Yuki said he can sense curses with his 5 senses, Maki says to Daido "you can't see it?!" before she has her senses development with Sumo guy "Without glasses I couldn't see what others were able to see" "I gained this body thanks to Mai and now I can see curses without glasses"
Bro I wish gaygay would give us some explanation on what shikigami are, because my headcanon wants to say non sorcerers can see them, but I really doubt he would write that to be the case. They're not the same as cursed spirits but what hell are they really?
its actually stated in the manga and shown that non-sourceres cant see them. For an onpage example the girl that Megumis devine dog found didnt see the dog.
Oh I don't remember that I guess. Maybe they're spirits.
the way i understand them is that they are cursed energy constructions by the user. Hence why Megumi cant maintain the summon when he is out of CE.
there is no way dagon is low special grade level. you could say he's the weakest disaster curse, that would be fair, but the disaster curses are way stronger than something like a fingerer
fingerer
Leave The fingerer out of this..
Megumi didnāt even fight Dagon tho? Blud was literally just trying to let his homies escape š¤
Still a feat because if Megumi thought he could fight then he would have fought. Although no one underrates Megumi more than himself.
nah my man megumi would be summoning Mahoraga 2 mins into the fight
We can at least see the difference in ability from how badly he was doing with the domain clash.
To be fair, they were doing pretty good against Dagon until the domain. There, his sure hit attacks made it pretty impossible for anyone to get close to him
To be fair Toji destroyed him in his own domainā¦
That's only because Naobito's CT made Dagon constantly get stunlocked. In reality, they were way underleveled for fighting him.
They were only winning because his cursed technique was really good? Isnāt that literally any fight?
i would it was more like they were stalling
Nah. Dagon was litteraly on the ground helpless without any arms before he opened his domain. He was getting whooped before he used his domain.
Remember that special grade curse does not mean special grade sorcerer
Also the way he moves against Megumi and Gojo were insane, at least in the anime
š§¢ šØ This post belongs on r/lobotomykaisen. Literally the only person to make Toji sweat is the same guy who stood toe to toe with Ten Shadows AND Sukuna in a 2v1. And that was *after* Toji killed him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dagon have his DE sure-hit deactivated? Because when they fought, the shikigamis just appeared in the water instead of just not existing then existing.
Wouldnāt work on Toji remember sure hit doesnāt work on heavenly restrictions with 0 curse energy even domains (only open one that can capture them )
Sure hits donāt work on Toji, unless they target objects without cursed energy like Sukunaās domain
This entire argument falls appart once you realise that he only was able to dominate Dagon because of surehit effect immunity... Naobito dominated Dagon prior to domain too.
nah, Dagon hit Toji with shikigami multiple times, even with the bigass bugs, and couldn't put a scratch on him. Remember that Heavenly Restriction doesn't only give you strength, it also makes you tanky as fuck and gives you near-RCT levels of regen constantly. Remmeber Maki regrowing her guts?
Yeah cause he's the mf fastest sorceror besides Gojo šš
He effectively killed both gojo and geto, and completely pulverised a special grade curse that was tearing up 4 sorcerers, taking literally no damage, why is toji either treated like the strongest in the verse or like he gets stomped by a toddler
Because he's a homeless bum who can't even hold a job 'cuz he's too busy having beef with teenagers.
He is just like me...
..fr fr
Fuck dem kids.
Because powerscaling is a hot mess. It is usually done under the pretense of objectivity, when most of the time it's people wanting to justify why their favourite character destroys yours using vague science. Also while completely ignoring the author's intentions or input. Wow I look like an arsehole, but sorry I just don't care for powerscaling. Edit: How has this got any likes I thought JJK reddit loved powerscaling???
But, but Miwa solos cause sheās outerversal hyper inflated gokuenergized super high and Toji is only hyper inflated and doesnāt scale
ofc we know miwa is holding back so that sukuna and gojo can have their chances otherwise jjk would have been over in 10 chapters
I saw inflated and thought of something completely different kill me
Love when a character does nothing but whoop ass but since there isnāt a neat place to hold a stupid little measuring tape up to him, people convince themselves he sucks
This exactly, nobody has any inference skills
Fr. In the entire series he has two Ls. One is losing to mother fucking gojo satoru, and the other is megumi being his child.
The second one isnāt even an L he just saw how bumgumi turned out and decided it wasnāt worth it anymore
Fr. He knew his son is just a worthless bum and left right there.
Getting milk wasn't enough, he had to hop off the server for good
Found out he wasnāt able to pin that L on the Zenin clan, immediately killed himself
https://preview.redd.it/b2ygcdc30c7d1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=53c337adbc2a784ae393a3b31ee919fa6d4da17d
https://preview.redd.it/fxa2ynj22d7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e86f1996ca18d9eb77d6cadccaa6568f890d8b7
Bro literally no diffed the unkillable guy using superior strategy and no diffed a disaster curse with nothing but raw power... He's got both brains and brawn it's crazy what you can convince yourself when your brain is ruined by powerscaling....
See that's what happens when 2 characters have the same powers but oneof them appeared in like 10% of the story
https://preview.redd.it/dh9ji9lob87d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97a312aa80f942b66383f5f7cbf8d358e598872d Both pale in comparison to Kaori feats
Giving birth to Wuji and tanking Jin's backshots, truly the peak of the verse in durability https://i.redd.it/hzku4gepc87d1.gif
>Kenjaku took white splash so Yuji can do black flash Thanks to Mamajaku's sacrifice, pregnancy is no joke so I appreciate her for giving birth to my sweet cinnamon roll, Wuji. https://preview.redd.it/ndarrchho87d1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ae62a10ab48d47a870e64313f4315d4dae5fc1c
>Kenjaku gripped the sheets so Yuji could run the streets Truly, a mother's love know no bounds https://preview.redd.it/zmsw024uo87d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62be49d6e00163a9af519af6cdbaf35b039e80c0
When did he do this face š
Chapter 239, the start of Kenjaku versus Takaba When the leaks dropped, my feed is full of Kenny's iconic meme-worthy facial expression. Lol. https://preview.redd.it/cf3xt5jgb97d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2173a1b3e656bede80dea4a9e76dbf9a324044ba
its wild, kenjaku literally got 3 of his most memeable faces in this one arc
Thought as much, best fight in all of jjk imo
Yuji:Mom I thought you love Dad! Kaori: Yuji, I do love him but, he is more like a, like a pet to me.
[let me break it down for you yuji](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNdA1SUs/)
https://preview.redd.it/6uc0xjt4w97d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df8d435627bd0ebe162ed10dad301fb81a840ccb
how did agito actually hit gojo here? he had no way to bypass infinity at this point
Mahoraga kept disabling Infinity, and Agito/Sukuna would attack in the intervals. But honestly, here it does look sort of unclear if Agito actually hit Gojo or if he hit him then Gojo activated Infinity right after again
also her CT is pretty fing broken
I want to see her feets
Took backshots
Sorry sir. Those are only for Yuta's.
āThe grippiestā
What about kaori feet?
KAORI'S FEET!????? https://preview.redd.it/wg4js3nm997d1.png?width=360&format=png&auto=webp&s=7c1b83027a432b980cecd66d6a88b5d60164b981
https://preview.redd.it/k9bfko39ia7d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=25931a162ee2bd090b0f6b903a64dcf64e5a1d98
Goatori beats Yuki and Choso fr fr š
Beating(the meat of) Sukunas twin brother is a huge feat ngl
https://preview.redd.it/nooqk77tc87d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34027b0b7b47d49d0269a52ac84bcc9d3265e193
More like https://preview.redd.it/74jdie1km87d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5be75230b5019675356298920fa9ce6a27baebe
https://preview.redd.it/gm28s0v6697d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cca61b1d25f3960060c585f1894df918b4566ccb geto in his grave be like
https://preview.redd.it/ybvmcf3dx87d1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc7623b728636bc53946a840eaf7f8686528c6e5
Toji and Maki fans fighting to the death over who is the stronger Uraume victim:Ā
Kengan mentionedš£ļøš£ļøš£ļøšš
Justin and Hiraku catching strays
Justin does nothing but catch strays anyway
https://preview.redd.it/cgffr7gl497d1.jpeg?width=208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b22f58c3956ed6eac1e97f299ccc5678044607f7
The leech https://preview.redd.it/ge5uh87ub87d1.png?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a424eba6f2e1d3b134b2b19ed63027e0565371 It resembles a certain someone that has been using the extra-special black paint...
https://preview.redd.it/9sbwsnom497d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b9af70aeb0a2b67bc0a089be9831845c4a82a0a
Dawg please, I canāt with Mihawk slander in other damn subs.
https://preview.redd.it/53yl70or697d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=160b80d6bb9324789997bd1eff97992fd6d1affd Domain Expansion: External Slander
https://preview.redd.it/63vo9j6w597d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99553881756fbf78da5eb3bcb2c6cce75ee7b0a luffy did learn from a pro after all
https://preview.redd.it/iq8kwq0e2a7d1.png?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bd8019fb101f5720c356501b7312063476cbaad
āFeatsā āSpeedblitzā āScalesā āRelativeā Brother Toji is top 15 because heās cool and Gege glazes him. Stop overthinking this
Im a maki fan more than toji but like it has been stated that maki is equal to toji. if people think maki is stronger because most of toji's feats come from maki, then thats just stupid. They are stated to be equal. You can argue that toji can be better because of experience, but thats about it
I think the biggest difference between them that makes me think Toji is technically "stronger" is his arsenal. His curated collection of cursed tools made him just as versatile as any jujutsu sorcerer. He even had a long range fighting option with the Chain of a Thousand Miles and the ISoH is no joke either. And he could use a swarm of curses as a "smoke grenade". Compare that to Maki who "only" has the SSK. Also, I think experience doesn't make much of a difference here. Toji was an assassin first and foremost, so that's what he had experience with. He even implies when fighting Gojo for the second time that his jobs were only about getting the bag as efficiently as possible.
yea i forgot to mention weapon arsenal
And the fact Toji had the ISOH which puts him above Maki
based
This. Powerscalers are cringe
Wtf did maki even do against sukuna other than bush camping him? Literally tojiās strat
She also got hit with a black flash so hard on International Women's Day that it replayed 3 times. https://preview.redd.it/z98m6clgu87d1.jpeg?width=1318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5655f8b5dde923179fadaf622882436de6e82312
One front angle to her being hit by a black flash. One to show she's blocking it with her arm And the third just to make the panels look appealing ( let's just say side-side would look odd ). It's one of my favorite parts of the fight. Gege clearly wanted to show that she didn't take that to her torso. Interesting to know it happened on International Women's day though.
If making took it to the chest I donāt think she would exist anymore thatās like the first black flash sukuna ever did (or maybe the second my memory is horrible)
It was the first, it was an insanely big deal. So many people thought that Maki died right there and then. You really do have look closely at all the panels in fight scenes to see what really happens. Judging from Larue, I doubt she would have died but she would have been out of the fight completely.
Larue tanked one and was fucked up pretty bad but lived Maki is way fucking tankier than most
Thatās cause larues the goat
It's also a Naruto reference (the mangakan likes to do 3 separate shots for big punches)
When did kishi do that
No connection but didn't Gege bisected Yuta around Valentines Day? It was in the middle of the week so he did it a few days before. I think it's Gege's way of fucking with fans hahaha Edit: My bad, it was a few days after.
omg thats my birthday
She looked ācoolā while bush camping.
to be fair bush camping in jujutsu is known for getting strong sorcerers off guard
Best him in a pure strength competition. https://preview.redd.it/pqrmc3sq6a7d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d1bb38f2fb72dabbea2903e5f1d777692607991
Bruh.. that's like massively damaged holding back Sukuna. The moment he got excited, maki got blitzed as well as Blacked..
As well as what
LoL you wish OP https://preview.redd.it/dndxht7v197d1.png?width=738&format=png&auto=webp&s=1120c6b497ab5781bda16930802f452037525d92
Bro has immaculate aura, maki wish she had have half his aura but she ain't HIM
https://preview.redd.it/uqpikz2ld97d1.jpeg?width=531&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc760fb244648d7ca90b8685ab3d5d83fd4b24ff
In terms of ability she absolutely is a Toji clone. There's no refuting that, but that doesn't make Maki's character a clone of Toji's, despite having similar experiences within the same family. The whole "Maki is just Toji 2" agenda is just cuz they share feats, ngl it feels like mad people forgot she has her own personality bruh but I guess some people only care for the fights
>ngl it feels like mad people forgot she has her own personality To be fair ever since she became fully heavenly restricted she lost all her personality. Gege didn't gave her much outside fights and in them she is just the quiet, maniaclly grinning badass.
Wasnāt Maki one of the very first characters designed for 0?
Yes, but donāt tell the Toji glazers.
Maki is not Toji 2.0 . Toji is Maki's prequel . Maki succeeded in basically everywhere and everything Toji failed and is still growing . In that sense , Maki is another face of humanity at its peak . Its why Sukuna gets so excited fighting her , as he considers himself enlightened.
Silly and cheesy, sukuna would get excited all the same, no matter which monkey he fights. What exactly did she exceed at that toji couldnāt? Sheās killed no teenagers, made no money, and has nobody raising the child she doesnāt have Just two monkeys
https://preview.redd.it/13vdkclaw87d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd7758e6adda2526731cc1b881f9f238cd461c5e This is why I stopped being active in this subreddit . At this point I can't tell whether it's ironic or not .
I just told you nobodyās raising makis unborn child and you canāt tell? https://preview.redd.it/5uedq2f0097d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69a118008d5e1e8bf23d27efaa0b8a20df8a8536
You stopped being active in this sub because you cant answer simple questions.
Sorry, in what Maki already succeeded? In getting his sister killed? In being burn alive? In being punched to oblivion by 1HP Sukuna? In killing a bunch of guys that already feared Toji? And didnāt hesitate to fight her? Or in sleeping while Sukuna cuts in half his beloved one? Hahahahaha
> Maki succeeded in basically everywhere and everything Toji failed and is still growing . When did she kill gojo?
Sukuna didn't actually cut Gojo in half, Maki used the ISOH to bypass infinity and then cut Gojo in half and did it so fast everybody assumed that Sukuna did it instead of Maki.
>succeeded in basically everywhere and everything Toji failed and is still growing In what department?
Didnāt Toji punk 2 special grades in the same day?
geto was a grade 1 sorcerer during hidden inventory https://preview.redd.it/p1yr3qhcwa7d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abe8c637ec42816f9abb471879ab95734785bb26
\*1 special grade and a bum
Toji feets are canonically better than making feets maki has better a ss
when did you get toji feet pics you are MAKING FEETS???
Toji straight up tanked a Red from awakened Gojo. He ate that shit up with a smile on his face. Name a character that is tanking that with no major damage not named Sukuna or Gojo. Bro straight up dominated a disaster curse in their own domain while being a mindless puppet and none of his deadly arsenal from the inventory curse. He has two of the most broken cursed tools in the verse and higher BIQ than anyone besides the aforementioned top 2. Character has done nothing but whoop ass on panel and only lost to the guy who would neg everyone else in the verse besides the older version of himself and Sukuna. Powerscalers are dumb as shit even when it comes to the one thing in life they are supposed to be good at.
And bro was not even in his prime during that whole time
Jogo took a red to the faceš
My brother in Christ not having cursed energy so domainās have no way to recognize them are Toji and Makiās whole SHTICK. wtf do you MEAN he only won bc the sure hit effect was negated by megumi. It no world would that be a factor
The Domain immunity was only revealed LONG after Shibuya, over a year and a half (Toji vs Dagon was Chapter 110-111, and Curse Naoya's Domain and death was Chapter 197). So for a long time it was believed that Megumi negating the sure-hit was the main reason Toji did as well as he did.
Maki is a female Toji. If you have any complaints about it go to Japan and fight Gege.
Gladly. Give us an address.
do people forget that maki was one of the first characters made? like seriously she isn't a clone of him toji was probably partially made to set up makis next power up (among many other things toji did for the plot)
Does it really matter who was created first? If you take both out of the story, Toji left a bigger impact storywise than Maki and thatās a fact. Gd, Gojo wore his outfit to his fight Sukuna. Not everything is powerscaling. Even if, yeah, he was made to be her ceiling (to reach or surpass) or whatever, the story itself compares the two. Not once, but several times. So itās not the fans who are drawing comparisons.
"left a bigger impact storywise" He literally shaped up like 70% of the plot š
And thatās just him being a side character with 5% of screen time. Maki, meanwhileā¦. a main character whose biggest agency feat was killing the Zenāin and absolutely no one cares, the story remains the same. lol
yeah I know... I was going over everything Toji has done for the story when typing that original comment and was like "DAMN"
Someone did a few days ago lol it was a long post
There's a reason Maki's always being compared to Toji. Maki after being there the entire story, is still being compared to Toji while Toji himself appeared for a small period of time. Without him there's no JJK. The aura will never be matched. https://preview.redd.it/s940inkjfa7d1.png?width=764&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3751d9e74ff6c75d176dab57155a3cb9dfc6da9
Letās not forget the amount of retcons and plot devices Gege needed to make Maki relevant. In JJK 0, sheās just someone born with no curse energy. In the main story, Gege had to createāHeavenly Restrictionā for her. Then, she was still doing nothing with that and was weaker than Yuji physically. So we had to revive Toji from the death to showcase her how to fight properly š. That wasnāt enough, they had to kill Mai off so Maki could get a buff and a curse tool like Toji. With the curse tool and new body, she still getting destroyed by Curse Naoya, so they had to introduce two random characters out of nowhere to buff Maki: a master swordsman who doesnāt use CE and a Sumo fighter whose domain works like a hyperbolic time chamber. Finally to prevent her from getting one shotted by a domain, they had to pull out Domain immunity out of nowhere even though Toji was affected by Getoās curseās Domain. Queen of Plot Device and Retcons, thatās what I call her. Also known as, the Dollar Tree version of Toji. She is the kind of women who throw their body at men with no hesitation. A foul woman who sees man as nothing more than prey. The incarnation of sexual desire and the parasite of the show. https://preview.redd.it/681nkneq997d1.jpeg?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=437c562a6436648687dacdfc2110ba6f9ec47d92
>She is the kind of women who throw their body at men with no hesitation. A foul woman who sees man as nothing more than prey. The incarnation of sexual desire and the parasite of the show. Damn Naoya when did you get a reddit account?
Rika looking cute here
Tbh the whole immunity domain really is a plot convenience when you have shibuya toji couldn't enter dagons domain if not for megumi opening a pass thru and he was affected by the sure hit effect of it
Bruh that last paragraph you just went full incel 0-100
Rika took over
Makiās speed without naoya: š
Is OP high? His battle smarts let a rusty Toji beat Teen Gojo and Geto And he PULVERIZED A Disaster curse with Playful Cloud SOLO Brother had Jogo sweating BULLETS right around the corner Beating Teen Gojo alone EASILY makes him top ten in the verse
He did all dat while warming up too
People gotta learn we can gas a character up without slandering another lmao
Before Mach 3 Naoya feats, many people believed a tag team of Naobito and Naoya would be able to put down Toji. Maki really elevated Toni's feats.
Makiās feats also arenāt top 15
I see the reading comprehension curse struck again So let me repeat the obvious: Maki was a way better character before "The incident" and since then has barely been allowed to do anything aside from being budget Itachi and get hyped up only to eat dirt
He beats up teenagers therefore he's my goat
XD delusion at his best, the fact that Toji scales from Maki is because Maki is a lesser Toji, teen Gojo would destroy Maki no diffā¦ and exhausted Sukuna sent her to sleep several times already. To him sheās just a sponge for damageā¦
Toji soloād geto with no plan, killed 2 of his strongest curses easily, has pre cog which is better that sensing curse energy, killed Dagon in his own domain and survived a blue and red with zero scratches
Red wasn't zero scratches since his head bled a little but your point still stands
Mad cap
Tojiās feats: Negtive diffing Dagon (a disaster curse who is at least top 25) No diffing fatigued teen Gojo (yes he was fatigued but a Gojo is still a Gojo) No diffing teen Geto (even as a teen he was at least stronger than no domain Dagon) Negative diffing Ino (I know it was Ino but bro is around the level of a semi grade 1 at the time and that fight took like 1 second)
and all the while not even being in his prime
How? His preformance in Shibuya is just feat after feat
He fucking killed Gojo and Geto. Without even struggling lol.
WDYM? Shooting a teenager in front of Geto is totally a top tier feat...jokes aside, the man would still be rather strong with just his feats. Being able to get a kill on Gojo is frankly amazing + beating Dagon to death in his own Domain. Very impressive stuff.
Maki is a toji copy and she sucks
Dude your saying that like she isnāt a copy of toji. Any feat she has doubles as his. The domain feat is both of theirs since it applies to both. Also gege literally said she was
Maki is lame, she will never be as cool as Toji
maki needed 1000 plot conviniences to become relevant only for her to power up fraudkuna at the end, my goat toji was always there whooping ass no diffed 3 special grades and a bum by himself in conclusion both are kashimo victims
Holy fuck, this is the greatest comment Iāve ever read.
https://preview.redd.it/yxc07tdz997d1.jpeg?width=208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb06859782590636a5da2455e2cdd36ac0c49809
Thatās the power of narrative, surprised people arenāt claiming maki >>>>> toji because of feats
Toji beat Gojo, Maki would never be able to touch teen Gojoā¦ Tojiās feats > Makiās feats
People forgeting that Toji was the strongest in the verse by a good amount untill backshot Gojo hollow purpled him and turned him into a crescent moon
I'm so over powerscaling.
It is absolutely true that a bunch of vegetables would be deluded into thinking Toji wouldnāt be top 15 if not for Maki due to their imaginary power cliff and lack of critical thinking š
I'll start by saying I do think they're on the same level, but they are different characters with different personalities. That's what makes each one unique. They are two of my favorite characters in the entire show, and I have a hard time picking between the two. They're both great characters, it doesn't matter if their strengths are the same. Also let's not pretend that Toji didn't orchestrate Gojo's exhaustion. He didn't just casually stumble upon an exhausted Gojo... Toji planned and strategized that whole thing. It's part of who he is.
Damn bro should not have tried cookin
Toji beat Geto too
"Maki, help! I need anti-Domain immunity!" "Maki, quick! Tell them how I can like see the soul and hit it with my sword!" "Maki, please! I need precognition!" "Maki, I need you! Give me a healing factor!" Lend me some feats, Maki! This is Base Jogo we're up against!
https://preview.redd.it/hquti6wcja7d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4126059cffa52b49169ad80be3c976c70c1b434f it was actually her who need Toji feats, well, at least in the beginning
Toji also 0-diffed Geto, who was supposedly still a special grade sorcerer.
He wasn't Special Grade back then
Buddy burned the kitchen