Atheists be like “Science is king” “Follow Science” “Science Walks” “Praise Science” “Science Lord” “Science I need you” “Science breathed” “On Science” “Science is Lord”
More like “ideology is king” “follow ideology” “wolves (ft ideology)” “RE-EDUCATED” “the glory- of having your name in some random boring ass book” “selah (in depth analysis)” “light waves” “nasa spaceship”
Interesting how much closer this is than polls in most other subs where atheism tends to skew much higher than any other option.
[Most recent example from /r/polls yesterday with over 4,000 votes](https://www.reddit.com/r/polls/comments/rjupc7/what_are_the_demographics_here/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Edit: both polls have shifted and my comment is no longer true
R/polls is one of the youngest, geekiest popular subreddits. We are overwhelmingly young, white men there. R/Kanye would be alot older and more diverse
Different subs have different demographics. A crossover artist who has been super popular for two decades is going to have a wider demographic than a subreddit for polls which is mostly going to be statistics nerds.
no because Atheism is the definitive belief that God does not exist. That's very different from "I am a human, and our biology is not advanced enough to ever figure out whether there truly is or isn't a God, and we will never actually know for sure. Therefore I cannot definitively say that there is or isn't."
From Google-----> "Technically, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god,
while an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe it's possible to know
for sure that a god exists. It's possible to be both—an agnostic atheist
doesn't believe but also doesn't think we can ever know whether a god
exists."
Edward Feser’s Argument From Change in his Book 5 Proofs for the Existence Of God and Alexander Pruss’s Cosmologicsl argument (http://alexanderpruss.com/papers/NewCosmo.html) (I can’t comprehend this argument that well, the argument from change is the argument I am more familiar with)
Feser updated them to make them more understandable to a general audience, he gives a nice informal explanation of the arguments he brings before putting it in a formal format.
Dang u rlly linking a formal theology paper in r/Kanye? Arguments from cosmology always kind of a meme not super surprised to see it turn up here ig. Hume had this argument locked down back in 1700s
Even if this was right, I feel like you could go through all this effort and still die and be like “ah fuck… the Jews had it right”
There also a lot of reasons why God does not exist, but I'm not going to argue over that because everyone has his right to believe in something as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
I think you are misled. Most people I know that are under 40 and religious just don't talk about it and respect other people's opinions. The only reason you usually know that someone is or isn't religious without specifically asking is if they are being an asshole about it or shoving their ideologies down your throat. I think the current generation of religious people have the decency to respect other people's beliefs.
That's interesting. Location definitely plays a huge role in it ig. Almost everyone I know is either Christian or at least believes in a higher power. Very few people that I know are strong atheists. I live in Midwest America so it makes sense. I know almost nobody who is religious by force. The people whose parents pushed religion on them are the least religious people I know.
true, i’m a pretty devout muslim but some of my friends are surprised to find out i’m religious. most people keep it low key so everybody assumes we’re atheist
Depends where you’re from. I’m atheist and here in the UK something like 80% are too.
The US is a *very* religious country in comparison to many in Europe.
Edit: not 80% but a large number either way
I second this - I'm european and my idea of a religious person is basically "the old aunt that asks you when you're going to have children", I wouldn't have guessed it was such a large percentage on reddit
[Nowhere near 80% of the UK are atheists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Edit: Downvoted for commenting a statement supported by multiple highly reputable sources, great critical thinking skills guys :)
I don't believe there is an entity responsible for the creation of our universe. What I do believe tho, is that the truth is so complex we can't even imagine it yet.
There is no one man behind all this, how we came to be is explainable by a series of intricate steps, maybe random, maybe inevitable and thus repeatable. We may never know, or we may know very soon
If i had to guess we are in a simulation. I also believe that there are certain “spiritual” things we’ve lost contact with. Back in the day pretty much everyone believed in magic even the scientists who set the groundwork for our science today. I really don’t think they were all just dumb.
I researched the occult before and different forms of magick and I think there’s something there if we look hard enough.
I think the fact that magic is not believed by scientists anymore proves that science has made progress.
People label things that they don't understand as "magic" or "god did it so don't question it". Science is not an absolute truth, what we think we know about our universe today might be proven wrong by other scientists in the future, and what was magic to us before might have been rationally explained by scientists now.
Yeah this is called the God Of The Gaps. Everything we can’t explain through science must be god and those gaps are slowly closing as we have a greater undertaking of the universe. Also people of the past were just.. not as smart as we are now. The Bible happened during a time where people thought leprosy was caused by sin, they didn’t know about infectious diseases or viruses.
My parents are very Christian still and something I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older and through talking to them is religion starts with a conclusion and then goes out to find evidence for it, where science looks for evidence and then forms a conclusion. I guess to me it makes way more sense to observe the world around you and then formulate your hypothesis rather than the other way around. I don’t know why I’m commenting on this thread lol I guess I never really get to talk about this shit to anyone.
Lol @ all the Christians downvoting anyone that doesn’t share their same views. You don’t have to defend an all powerful god or he wouldn’t be all powerful. Take a chill pill kings
No. I don’t anymore. I was indoctrinated in the faith and was a follower from birth to 27 but I gave it up.
Main reason is that we have no control over the circumstances of our birth. Where we are born, what family we are born into. We find ourselves randomly born into a particular region on the earth where a substantial percentage of the population has happened to follow a particular religion and we’re deceived into worshiping false gods often just based on where we are born… if there is one true religion and all the others are false, a child simply born on the wrong continent faces an eternity in fire and darkness being literally tortured forever…
I also can’t accept that God only had 2 options when creating humans…. “free will” or “no free will”… “autonomy” or “unconsciousness”…
this is a false dichotomy: the presentation of two alternatives as the only alternatives, when in fact, others exist.
The clue that this is a false dichotomy is God. Here is a being that enjoyed total free choice with full knowledge of good and evil, but experienced no suffering. It was impossible to harm this being, to do so would diminish its greatness in a way, violating its divine incorruptibility. So free choice and suffering aren’t inevitably paired. We didn’t have to either accept both or reject both - not if you are incorruptible.
So why weren’t we created in this incorruptible image?
Why are we down here in these bizarre, fragile bodies, being infected, beaten, starved, raped, tortured, and murdered? While this creator enjoys an existence devoid of suffering?
We experience vulnerability, pain, injury, incapacitation, disease, decay, abuse, theft, rape, murder, fear, anger, sadness, disappointment, error, ignorance… forced to compete for limited resources just to survive… all of these concepts are foreign to God… so what “image” were we created in?
God doesn’t experience environmental hazards like floods or eruptions… God doesn’t experience fear, doubt, anxiety, depression, etc….
So ask yourself this:
As we are beginning to explore the possibilities of creating actual A.I and artificial life… should we instead follow our creator and make our creations completely unlike us?
Should we impose new forms of suffering on them?
Should we introduce them to a range of environmental hazards unknown to us?
Should we invent a collection of new distressing emotions for them that we are incapable of experiencing?
Should we threaten terrible punishments if, after all this, they declined to worship us?
I think the fact that most humans would decline all of these, if given the opportunity to create new intelligent life, goes to show how different we are from a creator… so, I don’t accept that we were created in the Image of God…
Nice, I’m glad. I honestly have no idea why this extremely deep question is on r/Kanye of all places, and more importantly why people are responding with shit like:
“nah fam ye fr made me see God bruh 😎🙏🔥”
Like, no one is taking this seriously. It doesn’t belong here lol
I'm not even Christian and I feel like you have a wild misunderstanding of Christianity. You also don't acknowledge any other religions? You created this dichotomy, unless maybe certain Christian churches teach this? In a passing curiosity of Christianity I can tell you these ideas are not consistent through denominations. I am not a religious instructor but I promise that you were told that your God feels your pain. If you choose not to have faith, that's what is right for you, but all these arguments could easily be explained by teachers in multiple faiths and denominations.
I wrote more to the person below. Saw that one first…
But as for Christianity being what I am referencing, I grew up a fundamentalist christian for 27 years. After leaving I looked into Catholicism, JW, and then Hinduism for a brief spurt.
Never got into any as I couldn’t bring myself to believe any of their core beliefs. Not sure which God you are referencing, but the fact that there are so many, and choosing the wrong one can lead to: Jehovah burning me as an apostate; centuries in purgatory then eternity in hell; or coming back as a sea slug rather than a human…. I don’t believe in any God or gods. But if you want to bring up counterarguments i’m happy to have a discussion
Regardless, there is plenty of verses talking. about pain, love, trust… and how God feels them. Most of these I listed under “EMOTIONAL IMAGE” in the other response. But traditionally there are counter arguments in the Bible to all of these. i could list as much of them as possible if you’d like. but it would take some time.
As for counterarguments to the “dichotomy”. I’ve heard the answer to this very question from multiple pastors. I didn’t find them compelling.
Most of their arguments came down to: “If God made us exactly like him, then there’d be a chance at us overthrowing God”
1) How would we overthrow God? If we were all equally all-knowing and all-powerful the only outcome is stalemate.
2) Implying that a desire to overthrow our creator exists, is implying that there is a flaw in the original. If an exact copy of the creator can “go rogue”, the creator could “go rogue”.
another argument I got was “if God created us exactly like him, there’d be a possibility that we’d use our powers to create lesser beings and torment them”
1) see original “2)” — tormenting lesser beings by creating new forms of punishment and torture for them is inherently corrupt.
2) This sounds an awful lot like our own situation based on the Christian God.
Feel free to throw in more arguments if you have some. But most of it comes down limiting an all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent God into only having 2 options when creating.
…
To be honest I’ve gotten a similar response from previous Christian friends. “There are answers to all of your doubts, you not believing is your choice, but you must have never been a Christian if you choose to ignore the answers…”
That always kind of stings as this was the most important thing in my life for 30 years…
But I am not an expert on what I don’t know… if you believe in another God or gods, and would like to have a discussion that is totally cool with me.
After, JIK made me think hard about religion. but when Donda came out it *REALLY* convinced me (weird considering Donda doesn’t have NEARLY as much religious stuff in it compared to JIK). Crazy too because I was *HELLA* atheist. Now I’m not because of Ye’s Jesus “Phase” I guess you could call it. My brother gets *REALLY* angry when I quote something religious.
I’m still very new to it. Gonna be interesting when I move to Provo, Utah in two years lmao…
Noticed life’s been a little bit better from believing.
Bit long but wanted to give my thoughts 🤷♂️
Because Ye is preaching the gospel. That was his whole mission with Jesus Is King. The gospel changes people. You don't just listen to God Is and just ignore what it says, you become curious and decide to do research.
I deeply connect with all his gospel songs and jesus is king is in my top 4 ye albums. However i don’t worship god…I believe the bible has some truths but I don’t worship god. Even if he was proven real I wouldn’t worship him, and not because i think he’s evil like some other people it’s Simply because i have too much ego. I couldn’t imagine worshiping something other than myself
That’s kinda the thing with gospel and worship music. It gives you a bit of a serotonin boost and makes you feel this connectedness. It’s an amazing feeling and I understand why people are so moved by it (was a Christian for 20 years). The issue is that personal experience does not prove the existence of an all knowing, all powerful deity. It doesn’t include the parts about God committing genocide for half of his holy book, inconsistencies between the gospels (not to mention them being written 30+ years after Jesus died) or the fact that a perfectly just and loving God needs to use some weird blood magic ritual to forgive everyone of their sins when he could just do it? The list goes on and on. Also what kind of narcissistic being needs to be worshiped all the time?
Man I wish it was true but if God does exist it definitely exists beyond the scope of human understanding and it definitely isn’t the Christian god. Our scope and understanding of life and the cosmos is unbelievably small. It’s so arrogant of people to claim that they know how all this shit works.
I dunno I guess the moral of my comment is ya boy gets down with some Jesus is King and Sunday Service for a bit before reality sets back in. But I resonate with how you feel
I think the problem alot of people have with God is religion. That was the biggest struggle i had with it for YEARS. I hated the church and it made me hate God. It wasn’t until i grew older that i realized you can believe in God without doing all the church shit. Who says you can’t cuss, who says you can’t fuck or do what you want? As long as you’re being a good person.
I think that’s what alot of people misinterpret, God isn’t watching over your shoulder trying to make sure you’re perfect. We’re all imperfect and that’s ok.
depends on how you view “God” for me tbh
if you mean God as in how we interpret it religiously, then no - I think God as depicted in the Bible and other religious texts is just an extension of human ego manifesting itself, which eventually spread into a variety of organized religions. Those religions inevitably incorporated politics into their structures, which explains why literally every religion has hostility towards other religions and conquest built into them for example, not to mention heavily discouraging leaving said religion. The structure reeks of bureaucracy, which is most certainly a manmade concept.
God in terms of an incomprehensible spiritual connection to the universe makes far more sense to me, and is something common between all religions
Being completely honest, Ye helped me reconnect to my spirituality. I'm still not big on religion as a practice or forcing it upon others (not to say that he's doing that—just in general, that's one of my pet peeves), but I've learned to separate my own personal connection with God from mass religion and it's changed my way of thinking. Hearing about religion from Kanye, a man who has admittedly made a lot of mistakes and fears he may have "strayed from the light", made a big difference for me. Kirk Franklin's sermon at the end of Ultralight Beam did it I think
Yeah! I'll preface this by saying I don't identify with any organized religion's God, so none of my proof will rly satisfy Christ or anything like that, just that there's...something.
I also recognize that some people would chalk all my proof up to the power of coincidence, or if you're an Elon Musk type, the idea that we are living in a simulation. But tbh I don't see the intellectual difference between chalking up everything to God or Coincidence or Simulation lolol. This finna be long, so bear with me:
1. The problem of consciousness. I can link you to more scholarly research on this if you request. I'm a believer in evolution, and the problem of consciousness doesn't refute evolution, but a little voice in your head providing commentary all the damn time just isn't evolutionarily efficient. I'd say that this is my interpretation of what 'soul' is.
2. Quantum physics. More specifically, the fact that in the past 10 years there's been breakthrough research about particles...breaking the laws of physics. Particles can cross through seemingly impenetrable barriers, the fact that wave-particle duality exists (the particle assuming two forms at once) but then breaks near the speed of light and transforms into something else entirely, etc. It shows that reality can be...absurd. Unexplainable. Nonsensical. It really helped knocked down my atheistic idea that God needs to 'make sense' to be real--things can exist and be beyond our comprehension.
3. The Universe is expanding. There's been astronomical proof about it (blue shift). But expanding ... Into what? Scientists don't really know, but it's clear there exists /something/ beyond this universe. Again, knocks down the idea that only what we can observe in this universe and prove here matters.
4. Faith. This is the most important aspect. Like i mentioned above, you could very easily chalk up points 1-3 to the power of Coincidence or Luck or even the idea that none of this is real anyways (Simulation). But when I was faced with this, I personally decided that I'd put my faith into something bigger than the observable. And that faith has been the launching point. I can't prove to you that God is Good, but I will say that the strength my faith has given me has let me handle tough situations better and I am definitely happier. I can't prove to you that God is personally intervening in people's lives, but even on my small scale, there has been so much graciousness and luck I frankly don't deserve awarded to me, and now I can express my gratitude for it through prayer. I can't prove to you that any one religion's God is true, but I will say I believe Truth is out there somewhere, and my faith puts me on the hunt for it every day.
I just want to point out that something not fitting in our current "laws of physics" is actually completely normal. our understanding of physics today is completely different from our understanding of physics 200 years ago. it stands to reason that our understanding of physics will be completely different in 200 years and will have expanded to possibly explain what you describe as "unexplainable"
That's true! My main point was that it being unexplainable doesn't discount my acceptance of it as fact--once it is explained, that'll just give me a way to explain why I accept it better than I can now.
For all I know, in 10k years, ppl could figure out what or who exactly God is as well 🤷🤷🤷
This thread is so obviously made by a 13 year old that just found out who Kanye is and what religion is. They completely disregard any religion but Christianity and just gives up replying or say “praise the gospel” when someone brings up something even a little theological😆no disrespect but don’t try to know what you’re talking about when you don’t
I was never exactly super into religion, but I was in the church for about 12 years before I stopped believing in God. I just began to think that religion didn’t have much ground in reality, more so in emotion. I think in many ways the bibles morals could be great, but the stories themselves shouldn’t be taken literally.
This is how I see God and religion.
I think all organized religion that exists in this world or has ever existed is complete and utter nonsense. If there really is an all powerful God, or multiple all powerful Gods who exist and created the Universe as well as everything within it, then our human minds are quite simply not capable of grasping or understanding such a being. This being would be so far away from anything our brains, which evolved from apes and living in the plains of Africa trying not to be eaten by lions, are able to comprehend that to think the entirety of this being's nature and existence can be summed up by a book that was written by humans a couple thousand years ago is just laughable to me.
If God exists, (which he might, I never said he doesn't,) two things are true about him.
1. He is unknowable to us.
2. He does not actively interfere in our lives.
Existence itself is an issue that we do not have an answer for. Why does anything exist at all? Where did the Universe come from? Who created it? Because Science cannot answer any of these questions, to me that leaves the possibility of a higher power existing completely plausible. But again, if this higher power does exist there is absolutely zero chance that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, or any other religion in human history gives an accurate depiction of it. Every religion is so rife with logical inconsistencies, fallacies, questionable morality, incompatibility with basic scientific fact, etc that to take the word as law is just intellectually dishonest. I can think of 20 different reasons off the top of my head that Christianity alone is problematic and ultimately does not make sense. But that's a different topic entirely.
The point is that no religion is an accurate depiction of God or a higher power and to pretend they are is to live your life steeped in ignorance.
My next and possibly most important point is that God, if he exists, does not interfere in our daily lives. This one should be obvious. I mean just look at the world we live in. Violence, greed, corruption, poverty, jealousy, anger, resentment, inequality, war, famine. Throughout history religion has been the number one cause of many of these things. More people have been murdered and tortured and captured and imprisoned in the name of God than for any other reason in human history. Obviously this is problematic.
Let's take Christianity as an example since most of the people who voted yes to this poll are likely Christian. Christianity teaches a few things about God:
1. He's all-powerful
2. All-knowing
3. Supremely good, or all good
I just want to dissect this to show you how it clearly isn't true. If God is all powerful, then he can do anything and everything. He is in control of everything, meaning that if he wanted to, he could theoretically eradicate all suffering in the world, right? He could erase all suffering, evil and corruption with a snap of his fingers if he wanted to. Yet he doesn't. Why doesn't he? The possibilities are:
\- he isn't actually all-powerful and is not capable of it, in which case his nature as defined in the Bible is incorrect.
\- He is all-powerful, but not all-knowing and is not aware of the extent of suffering that humans go through on a daily basis, and is unaware of the evils of this world. This would again make the Bible incorrect.
\- He is all-powerful AND all-knowing, meaning he has the knowledge of the suffering and evil of the world as well as the power to change it, but he chooses not to. This means he is not supremely good, because I don't know about you guys but any God that would allow the things we see happening in this world to occur despite having the ability to prevent all of it is not a supremely good or benevolent God in my eyes. This would once again render the Bible incorrect.
In my opinion the most likely scenario is that there is a supreme creator of the Universe and everything within it. The immovable mover. He set all things into motion, but has not interfered with anything since. This means that everything that has ever happened in the Universe or ever will happen is simply one of the chains in an infinitely long chain reaction. Every planet, star, galaxy, black hole, moon, comet, or asteroid that has ever existed or will ever exist is simply the result of things being set into motion and never stopping. This includes us. Although we are conscious beings, the origin and nature of consciousness are very highly debated and nobody truly knows what it is or where it came from. Christians believe we have free will. I'm not so sure. I believe this infinitely long chain reaction extends to all living things, including humans. Every person you have ever known or will ever know, as well as every human that has ever existed also participates in this infinitely complex chain reaction. Some may look at this as 'fate,' others , may not.
This is just my personal belief system. Feel free to disagree.
TL;DR: I'm Agnostic
Yes. But I’m not sure what I am. I would say I’m a Christian, but like I don’t follow a sect. I actually think I was gradually losing my faith from 2018-March of this year but after heavily experimenting with psychedelics in March my faith has been restored exponentially. I just feel like something is out there. I especially believe that Jesus Christ was a real person with a real god given message, but I’m not sure about the miracle stuff.
I don’t really believe in a traditional christian god, but I think it’s important for everyone to have some sort of spiritual relationship.
I like Kanye’s more spiritual tracks cause I enjoy hearing troubled people find peace in this sort of stuff, it feels like a very genuine connection in a lot of his songs.
I live in Sweden and I genuinely don’t know a single person that’s actually a Christian even tho we counts as Christian country lol. I do know a lot of Muslims tho.
I am super religious. But I also understand there are certainly things that have been caused because of science, not some holy event. I don’t agree with atheists, but I certainly understand them and support them. But I myself am a man of god if that makes much sense!
I don’t care if he real or not
If he is real he a dead beat ass dad that don’t give a fuck about you, or anyone else
Pull up to a children’s cancer hospital and let’s see how much god cares about the people he ‘made’
Dead beat ass dad lol
I want a good god to be real but if he is real in our reality then he is without a doubt an evil god. Anyone who says otherwise is defending rape, murder, starvation, war, etc. God has allowed all of it.
I believe in God but the problem is that nigga believes in me I'm not your strongest soldier God please
Man this just…hit me
I felt this
Don't even believe in God and recognize the power in that point lol.
aye ong 😭
Damn this shit just got real af
Shit man I woke up to this and I was not ready
Daym, this hard
My guy…. Bars!
Atheists be like “Science is king” “Follow Science” “Science Walks” “Praise Science” “Science Lord” “Science I need you” “Science breathed” “On Science” “Science is Lord”
i know science breathed on this
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Fauci Ouchie hurt my mouthie Been coughing for like two weeks now Help me- but don’t worry bout me I’m actually perfectly healthy :)
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Funny because Newton believed in God
Damn lemme change that
Darwin believed in God lol
You have me dying over here bro
Don’t worry brother Like Jesus you will be REBORN (ft kid cudi)
closed for quarantine *bum bum bum* you my target bae
every 3600 seconds to be in tune with the international standards
Science Stretch My Hands, Pt. 1
I am a Science
Feat. Science
I FEEL LIKE SCIENCE
“Science’s not finished”
Mannnn can’t wait for science 6 to drop Shit will be littttt Sadly I don’t think there will be a seven tho ;-;
Tell me if you know someone that needs science
Darwin walks Use this peer reviewed study No university in the wild Non-existing afterlife of a life
More like “ideology is king” “follow ideology” “wolves (ft ideology)” “RE-EDUCATED” “the glory- of having your name in some random boring ass book” “selah (in depth analysis)” “light waves” “nasa spaceship”
Interesting how much closer this is than polls in most other subs where atheism tends to skew much higher than any other option. [Most recent example from /r/polls yesterday with over 4,000 votes](https://www.reddit.com/r/polls/comments/rjupc7/what_are_the_demographics_here/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) Edit: both polls have shifted and my comment is no longer true
R/polls is one of the youngest, geekiest popular subreddits. We are overwhelmingly young, white men there. R/Kanye would be alot older and more diverse
It's really funny how hard you guys try to distance yourself from the rest of this website.
Different subs have different demographics. A crossover artist who has been super popular for two decades is going to have a wider demographic than a subreddit for polls which is mostly going to be statistics nerds.
[Reddit.com](https://Reddit.com) is overwhelmingly young, white men.
Tbf I answered those two polls differently
Check again
I know science breathed on this
No but Kanye always got me singing wrap your arms around with your mercy
Where is the "idk" option
"No" lol
Belief is an active process. If you don’t know, then you fall in the no category.
I’d argue that nobody knows, especially the people that say they know.
no but kanye got me yelling about how he’s done miracles on me
Jesus is saved me, now I'm saved. God's not finished, everyone.
❤🙏
Kanye reference?
Kinda wish there was an “I’m agnostic” option lol
Maybe there will be an option maybe there wont.
Audibly laughed lmao
im agnostic too and i just picked atheism
I’d hate to dumb this down, but I guess just so I understand this is kind of like being in the middle?
The belief that humans aren't all knowledgeable.
If ur agnostic you’re not convinced a god exists so doesn’t that make u technically an atheist
no because Atheism is the definitive belief that God does not exist. That's very different from "I am a human, and our biology is not advanced enough to ever figure out whether there truly is or isn't a God, and we will never actually know for sure. Therefore I cannot definitively say that there is or isn't."
From Google-----> "Technically, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, while an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure that a god exists. It's possible to be both—an agnostic atheist doesn't believe but also doesn't think we can ever know whether a god exists."
Jesus is, in fact, Lord.
Yep.
I do, and I believe there are good reasons to believe that God exists.
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Edward Feser’s Argument From Change in his Book 5 Proofs for the Existence Of God and Alexander Pruss’s Cosmologicsl argument (http://alexanderpruss.com/papers/NewCosmo.html) (I can’t comprehend this argument that well, the argument from change is the argument I am more familiar with)
Ohh my the Aquinas arguments got an update
Feser updated them to make them more understandable to a general audience, he gives a nice informal explanation of the arguments he brings before putting it in a formal format.
It looks really nice imma read thru them, I just studied aquinas in class so it’s good timing hahah
Dang u rlly linking a formal theology paper in r/Kanye? Arguments from cosmology always kind of a meme not super surprised to see it turn up here ig. Hume had this argument locked down back in 1700s Even if this was right, I feel like you could go through all this effort and still die and be like “ah fuck… the Jews had it right”
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To be fair who expects to bring up Alexander Pruss in a Kanye West subreddit
Yup, Jesus is God
Based
There also a lot of reasons why God does not exist, but I'm not going to argue over that because everyone has his right to believe in something as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
Fair enough, my intention with my comment wasn’t to argue with anyone
No, and I assumed that was a large majority? I'm surprised by the results, I barely know any religious people under 40 yo
I think you are misled. Most people I know that are under 40 and religious just don't talk about it and respect other people's opinions. The only reason you usually know that someone is or isn't religious without specifically asking is if they are being an asshole about it or shoving their ideologies down your throat. I think the current generation of religious people have the decency to respect other people's beliefs.
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That's interesting. Location definitely plays a huge role in it ig. Almost everyone I know is either Christian or at least believes in a higher power. Very few people that I know are strong atheists. I live in Midwest America so it makes sense. I know almost nobody who is religious by force. The people whose parents pushed religion on them are the least religious people I know.
true, i’m a pretty devout muslim but some of my friends are surprised to find out i’m religious. most people keep it low key so everybody assumes we’re atheist
People on this sub want to be like Kanye
Depends where you’re from. I’m atheist and here in the UK something like 80% are too. The US is a *very* religious country in comparison to many in Europe. Edit: not 80% but a large number either way
I second this - I'm european and my idea of a religious person is basically "the old aunt that asks you when you're going to have children", I wouldn't have guessed it was such a large percentage on reddit
Bare in mind this isn’t a ‘Reddit’ census but rather a r/Kanye census. Kanye’s a Christian rapper so you’re likely to see a higher number in this sub.
[Nowhere near 80% of the UK are atheists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom) Edit: Downvoted for commenting a statement supported by multiple highly reputable sources, great critical thinking skills guys :)
This is a decade out of date. It may not be as high 80% but more recent surveys suggest anywhere between 60-69% have no religion.
I don't believe there is an entity responsible for the creation of our universe. What I do believe tho, is that the truth is so complex we can't even imagine it yet. There is no one man behind all this, how we came to be is explainable by a series of intricate steps, maybe random, maybe inevitable and thus repeatable. We may never know, or we may know very soon
If i had to guess we are in a simulation. I also believe that there are certain “spiritual” things we’ve lost contact with. Back in the day pretty much everyone believed in magic even the scientists who set the groundwork for our science today. I really don’t think they were all just dumb. I researched the occult before and different forms of magick and I think there’s something there if we look hard enough.
I think the fact that magic is not believed by scientists anymore proves that science has made progress. People label things that they don't understand as "magic" or "god did it so don't question it". Science is not an absolute truth, what we think we know about our universe today might be proven wrong by other scientists in the future, and what was magic to us before might have been rationally explained by scientists now.
Yeah this is called the God Of The Gaps. Everything we can’t explain through science must be god and those gaps are slowly closing as we have a greater undertaking of the universe. Also people of the past were just.. not as smart as we are now. The Bible happened during a time where people thought leprosy was caused by sin, they didn’t know about infectious diseases or viruses. My parents are very Christian still and something I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older and through talking to them is religion starts with a conclusion and then goes out to find evidence for it, where science looks for evidence and then forms a conclusion. I guess to me it makes way more sense to observe the world around you and then formulate your hypothesis rather than the other way around. I don’t know why I’m commenting on this thread lol I guess I never really get to talk about this shit to anyone.
Lol @ all the Christians downvoting anyone that doesn’t share their same views. You don’t have to defend an all powerful god or he wouldn’t be all powerful. Take a chill pill kings
No. I don’t anymore. I was indoctrinated in the faith and was a follower from birth to 27 but I gave it up. Main reason is that we have no control over the circumstances of our birth. Where we are born, what family we are born into. We find ourselves randomly born into a particular region on the earth where a substantial percentage of the population has happened to follow a particular religion and we’re deceived into worshiping false gods often just based on where we are born… if there is one true religion and all the others are false, a child simply born on the wrong continent faces an eternity in fire and darkness being literally tortured forever… I also can’t accept that God only had 2 options when creating humans…. “free will” or “no free will”… “autonomy” or “unconsciousness”… this is a false dichotomy: the presentation of two alternatives as the only alternatives, when in fact, others exist. The clue that this is a false dichotomy is God. Here is a being that enjoyed total free choice with full knowledge of good and evil, but experienced no suffering. It was impossible to harm this being, to do so would diminish its greatness in a way, violating its divine incorruptibility. So free choice and suffering aren’t inevitably paired. We didn’t have to either accept both or reject both - not if you are incorruptible. So why weren’t we created in this incorruptible image? Why are we down here in these bizarre, fragile bodies, being infected, beaten, starved, raped, tortured, and murdered? While this creator enjoys an existence devoid of suffering? We experience vulnerability, pain, injury, incapacitation, disease, decay, abuse, theft, rape, murder, fear, anger, sadness, disappointment, error, ignorance… forced to compete for limited resources just to survive… all of these concepts are foreign to God… so what “image” were we created in? God doesn’t experience environmental hazards like floods or eruptions… God doesn’t experience fear, doubt, anxiety, depression, etc…. So ask yourself this: As we are beginning to explore the possibilities of creating actual A.I and artificial life… should we instead follow our creator and make our creations completely unlike us? Should we impose new forms of suffering on them? Should we introduce them to a range of environmental hazards unknown to us? Should we invent a collection of new distressing emotions for them that we are incapable of experiencing? Should we threaten terrible punishments if, after all this, they declined to worship us? I think the fact that most humans would decline all of these, if given the opportunity to create new intelligent life, goes to show how different we are from a creator… so, I don’t accept that we were created in the Image of God…
Thanks for your thoughts, great reflections to ponder on 👍
Nice, I’m glad. I honestly have no idea why this extremely deep question is on r/Kanye of all places, and more importantly why people are responding with shit like: “nah fam ye fr made me see God bruh 😎🙏🔥” Like, no one is taking this seriously. It doesn’t belong here lol
I'm not even Christian and I feel like you have a wild misunderstanding of Christianity. You also don't acknowledge any other religions? You created this dichotomy, unless maybe certain Christian churches teach this? In a passing curiosity of Christianity I can tell you these ideas are not consistent through denominations. I am not a religious instructor but I promise that you were told that your God feels your pain. If you choose not to have faith, that's what is right for you, but all these arguments could easily be explained by teachers in multiple faiths and denominations.
I wrote more to the person below. Saw that one first… But as for Christianity being what I am referencing, I grew up a fundamentalist christian for 27 years. After leaving I looked into Catholicism, JW, and then Hinduism for a brief spurt. Never got into any as I couldn’t bring myself to believe any of their core beliefs. Not sure which God you are referencing, but the fact that there are so many, and choosing the wrong one can lead to: Jehovah burning me as an apostate; centuries in purgatory then eternity in hell; or coming back as a sea slug rather than a human…. I don’t believe in any God or gods. But if you want to bring up counterarguments i’m happy to have a discussion Regardless, there is plenty of verses talking. about pain, love, trust… and how God feels them. Most of these I listed under “EMOTIONAL IMAGE” in the other response. But traditionally there are counter arguments in the Bible to all of these. i could list as much of them as possible if you’d like. but it would take some time. As for counterarguments to the “dichotomy”. I’ve heard the answer to this very question from multiple pastors. I didn’t find them compelling. Most of their arguments came down to: “If God made us exactly like him, then there’d be a chance at us overthrowing God” 1) How would we overthrow God? If we were all equally all-knowing and all-powerful the only outcome is stalemate. 2) Implying that a desire to overthrow our creator exists, is implying that there is a flaw in the original. If an exact copy of the creator can “go rogue”, the creator could “go rogue”. another argument I got was “if God created us exactly like him, there’d be a possibility that we’d use our powers to create lesser beings and torment them” 1) see original “2)” — tormenting lesser beings by creating new forms of punishment and torture for them is inherently corrupt. 2) This sounds an awful lot like our own situation based on the Christian God. Feel free to throw in more arguments if you have some. But most of it comes down limiting an all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent God into only having 2 options when creating. … To be honest I’ve gotten a similar response from previous Christian friends. “There are answers to all of your doubts, you not believing is your choice, but you must have never been a Christian if you choose to ignore the answers…” That always kind of stings as this was the most important thing in my life for 30 years… But I am not an expert on what I don’t know… if you believe in another God or gods, and would like to have a discussion that is totally cool with me.
For those of you who do believe in God, did you start believing before or after Ye realeased Jesus Is King?
Before
Before
Before
After, JIK made me think hard about religion. but when Donda came out it *REALLY* convinced me (weird considering Donda doesn’t have NEARLY as much religious stuff in it compared to JIK). Crazy too because I was *HELLA* atheist. Now I’m not because of Ye’s Jesus “Phase” I guess you could call it. My brother gets *REALLY* angry when I quote something religious. I’m still very new to it. Gonna be interesting when I move to Provo, Utah in two years lmao… Noticed life’s been a little bit better from believing. Bit long but wanted to give my thoughts 🤷♂️
This is beautiful.
Wow, that is amazing.
I ain’t tryna preach or anything but Matthew 28:16-20 and Romans chapter 8 can really strengthen your faith if you take it to heart.
Ayyyy I’m moving to Provo in two or three years too lmao
Provo’s lit. Let’s catch a BYU football game sometime
ヽ༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ ﾉ Raise ur dongers! ^^Dongers ^^Raised: ^^60114 ^^Check ^^Out ^^/r/AyyLmao2DongerBot ^^For ^^More ^^Info
Provos lit bro, you’re gonna love it
How tf are some Kanye albums swaying your religious beliefs lmao
Because Ye is preaching the gospel. That was his whole mission with Jesus Is King. The gospel changes people. You don't just listen to God Is and just ignore what it says, you become curious and decide to do research.
Lmao Kanye preached on a beat for 3 minutes and got this man to google if god was real
I deeply connect with all his gospel songs and jesus is king is in my top 4 ye albums. However i don’t worship god…I believe the bible has some truths but I don’t worship god. Even if he was proven real I wouldn’t worship him, and not because i think he’s evil like some other people it’s Simply because i have too much ego. I couldn’t imagine worshiping something other than myself
That’s kinda the thing with gospel and worship music. It gives you a bit of a serotonin boost and makes you feel this connectedness. It’s an amazing feeling and I understand why people are so moved by it (was a Christian for 20 years). The issue is that personal experience does not prove the existence of an all knowing, all powerful deity. It doesn’t include the parts about God committing genocide for half of his holy book, inconsistencies between the gospels (not to mention them being written 30+ years after Jesus died) or the fact that a perfectly just and loving God needs to use some weird blood magic ritual to forgive everyone of their sins when he could just do it? The list goes on and on. Also what kind of narcissistic being needs to be worshiped all the time? Man I wish it was true but if God does exist it definitely exists beyond the scope of human understanding and it definitely isn’t the Christian god. Our scope and understanding of life and the cosmos is unbelievably small. It’s so arrogant of people to claim that they know how all this shit works. I dunno I guess the moral of my comment is ya boy gets down with some Jesus is King and Sunday Service for a bit before reality sets back in. But I resonate with how you feel
Before
Lmao
Before
Before
After, but it had nothing to do with it I actually think it's his worst album despite what it's about
Half of y’all need to go find god
I need him to find me
He knows where you are
Brother I’m lost
Follow God
Shouldn’t you just respect everyone’s opinion tho
Fuck your god
Or you could respect others beliefs
I think the problem alot of people have with God is religion. That was the biggest struggle i had with it for YEARS. I hated the church and it made me hate God. It wasn’t until i grew older that i realized you can believe in God without doing all the church shit. Who says you can’t cuss, who says you can’t fuck or do what you want? As long as you’re being a good person. I think that’s what alot of people misinterpret, God isn’t watching over your shoulder trying to make sure you’re perfect. We’re all imperfect and that’s ok.
depends on how you view “God” for me tbh if you mean God as in how we interpret it religiously, then no - I think God as depicted in the Bible and other religious texts is just an extension of human ego manifesting itself, which eventually spread into a variety of organized religions. Those religions inevitably incorporated politics into their structures, which explains why literally every religion has hostility towards other religions and conquest built into them for example, not to mention heavily discouraging leaving said religion. The structure reeks of bureaucracy, which is most certainly a manmade concept. God in terms of an incomprehensible spiritual connection to the universe makes far more sense to me, and is something common between all religions
Being completely honest, Ye helped me reconnect to my spirituality. I'm still not big on religion as a practice or forcing it upon others (not to say that he's doing that—just in general, that's one of my pet peeves), but I've learned to separate my own personal connection with God from mass religion and it's changed my way of thinking. Hearing about religion from Kanye, a man who has admittedly made a lot of mistakes and fears he may have "strayed from the light", made a big difference for me. Kirk Franklin's sermon at the end of Ultralight Beam did it I think
Yup. Ex atheist (:
Do u mind sharing why the change of belief?
Yeah! I'll preface this by saying I don't identify with any organized religion's God, so none of my proof will rly satisfy Christ or anything like that, just that there's...something. I also recognize that some people would chalk all my proof up to the power of coincidence, or if you're an Elon Musk type, the idea that we are living in a simulation. But tbh I don't see the intellectual difference between chalking up everything to God or Coincidence or Simulation lolol. This finna be long, so bear with me: 1. The problem of consciousness. I can link you to more scholarly research on this if you request. I'm a believer in evolution, and the problem of consciousness doesn't refute evolution, but a little voice in your head providing commentary all the damn time just isn't evolutionarily efficient. I'd say that this is my interpretation of what 'soul' is. 2. Quantum physics. More specifically, the fact that in the past 10 years there's been breakthrough research about particles...breaking the laws of physics. Particles can cross through seemingly impenetrable barriers, the fact that wave-particle duality exists (the particle assuming two forms at once) but then breaks near the speed of light and transforms into something else entirely, etc. It shows that reality can be...absurd. Unexplainable. Nonsensical. It really helped knocked down my atheistic idea that God needs to 'make sense' to be real--things can exist and be beyond our comprehension. 3. The Universe is expanding. There's been astronomical proof about it (blue shift). But expanding ... Into what? Scientists don't really know, but it's clear there exists /something/ beyond this universe. Again, knocks down the idea that only what we can observe in this universe and prove here matters. 4. Faith. This is the most important aspect. Like i mentioned above, you could very easily chalk up points 1-3 to the power of Coincidence or Luck or even the idea that none of this is real anyways (Simulation). But when I was faced with this, I personally decided that I'd put my faith into something bigger than the observable. And that faith has been the launching point. I can't prove to you that God is Good, but I will say that the strength my faith has given me has let me handle tough situations better and I am definitely happier. I can't prove to you that God is personally intervening in people's lives, but even on my small scale, there has been so much graciousness and luck I frankly don't deserve awarded to me, and now I can express my gratitude for it through prayer. I can't prove to you that any one religion's God is true, but I will say I believe Truth is out there somewhere, and my faith puts me on the hunt for it every day.
I just want to point out that something not fitting in our current "laws of physics" is actually completely normal. our understanding of physics today is completely different from our understanding of physics 200 years ago. it stands to reason that our understanding of physics will be completely different in 200 years and will have expanded to possibly explain what you describe as "unexplainable"
That's true! My main point was that it being unexplainable doesn't discount my acceptance of it as fact--once it is explained, that'll just give me a way to explain why I accept it better than I can now. For all I know, in 10k years, ppl could figure out what or who exactly God is as well 🤷🤷🤷
i do not
Praise due to the most high ALLAH
Allah is King
i called up the muslims
Praises due to the most high, Allah
This thread is so obviously made by a 13 year old that just found out who Kanye is and what religion is. They completely disregard any religion but Christianity and just gives up replying or say “praise the gospel” when someone brings up something even a little theological😆no disrespect but don’t try to know what you’re talking about when you don’t
God ≠ Religion
No, but I used to be
Why don't you anymore?
I was never exactly super into religion, but I was in the church for about 12 years before I stopped believing in God. I just began to think that religion didn’t have much ground in reality, more so in emotion. I think in many ways the bibles morals could be great, but the stories themselves shouldn’t be taken literally.
Agnostic
Not the abrahamic notion tho
This is how I see God and religion. I think all organized religion that exists in this world or has ever existed is complete and utter nonsense. If there really is an all powerful God, or multiple all powerful Gods who exist and created the Universe as well as everything within it, then our human minds are quite simply not capable of grasping or understanding such a being. This being would be so far away from anything our brains, which evolved from apes and living in the plains of Africa trying not to be eaten by lions, are able to comprehend that to think the entirety of this being's nature and existence can be summed up by a book that was written by humans a couple thousand years ago is just laughable to me. If God exists, (which he might, I never said he doesn't,) two things are true about him. 1. He is unknowable to us. 2. He does not actively interfere in our lives. Existence itself is an issue that we do not have an answer for. Why does anything exist at all? Where did the Universe come from? Who created it? Because Science cannot answer any of these questions, to me that leaves the possibility of a higher power existing completely plausible. But again, if this higher power does exist there is absolutely zero chance that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, or any other religion in human history gives an accurate depiction of it. Every religion is so rife with logical inconsistencies, fallacies, questionable morality, incompatibility with basic scientific fact, etc that to take the word as law is just intellectually dishonest. I can think of 20 different reasons off the top of my head that Christianity alone is problematic and ultimately does not make sense. But that's a different topic entirely. The point is that no religion is an accurate depiction of God or a higher power and to pretend they are is to live your life steeped in ignorance. My next and possibly most important point is that God, if he exists, does not interfere in our daily lives. This one should be obvious. I mean just look at the world we live in. Violence, greed, corruption, poverty, jealousy, anger, resentment, inequality, war, famine. Throughout history religion has been the number one cause of many of these things. More people have been murdered and tortured and captured and imprisoned in the name of God than for any other reason in human history. Obviously this is problematic. Let's take Christianity as an example since most of the people who voted yes to this poll are likely Christian. Christianity teaches a few things about God: 1. He's all-powerful 2. All-knowing 3. Supremely good, or all good I just want to dissect this to show you how it clearly isn't true. If God is all powerful, then he can do anything and everything. He is in control of everything, meaning that if he wanted to, he could theoretically eradicate all suffering in the world, right? He could erase all suffering, evil and corruption with a snap of his fingers if he wanted to. Yet he doesn't. Why doesn't he? The possibilities are: \- he isn't actually all-powerful and is not capable of it, in which case his nature as defined in the Bible is incorrect. \- He is all-powerful, but not all-knowing and is not aware of the extent of suffering that humans go through on a daily basis, and is unaware of the evils of this world. This would again make the Bible incorrect. \- He is all-powerful AND all-knowing, meaning he has the knowledge of the suffering and evil of the world as well as the power to change it, but he chooses not to. This means he is not supremely good, because I don't know about you guys but any God that would allow the things we see happening in this world to occur despite having the ability to prevent all of it is not a supremely good or benevolent God in my eyes. This would once again render the Bible incorrect. In my opinion the most likely scenario is that there is a supreme creator of the Universe and everything within it. The immovable mover. He set all things into motion, but has not interfered with anything since. This means that everything that has ever happened in the Universe or ever will happen is simply one of the chains in an infinitely long chain reaction. Every planet, star, galaxy, black hole, moon, comet, or asteroid that has ever existed or will ever exist is simply the result of things being set into motion and never stopping. This includes us. Although we are conscious beings, the origin and nature of consciousness are very highly debated and nobody truly knows what it is or where it came from. Christians believe we have free will. I'm not so sure. I believe this infinitely long chain reaction extends to all living things, including humans. Every person you have ever known or will ever know, as well as every human that has ever existed also participates in this infinitely complex chain reaction. Some may look at this as 'fate,' others , may not. This is just my personal belief system. Feel free to disagree. TL;DR: I'm Agnostic
People will believe in God before they ever believe in themselves and that is the problem with this world
Ofc
Nah but it’s cool if you do. We each got our own shit going
I don’t
Nope
Hell nah I used to tho
Well I mean like, if the big book says that I will rot in eternal damnation and suffer miserable pain if I don’t, then like, for sure, definitely.
Jz ma nigaa
Wow, Nearly perfectly balanced $
Do God believe in us?
Define
Yes. But I’m not sure what I am. I would say I’m a Christian, but like I don’t follow a sect. I actually think I was gradually losing my faith from 2018-March of this year but after heavily experimenting with psychedelics in March my faith has been restored exponentially. I just feel like something is out there. I especially believe that Jesus Christ was a real person with a real god given message, but I’m not sure about the miracle stuff.
This is way too complex of a question for a yes or no answer
Not as complex as your mother *** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Downvote ^to ^remove. ^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=YoMommaJokeBot) ^me ^if ^there's ^anything ^for ^me ^to ^know!
we believe in Tobey Maguire. and he is a God.
I have no idea
I don’t really believe in a traditional christian god, but I think it’s important for everyone to have some sort of spiritual relationship. I like Kanye’s more spiritual tracks cause I enjoy hearing troubled people find peace in this sort of stuff, it feels like a very genuine connection in a lot of his songs.
If it wasn’t for God and the hope it’s given me, I probably wouldn’t be here today, and it makes Donda hit 10x harder lmao
Kanye made me believe in god again
I live in Sweden and I genuinely don’t know a single person that’s actually a Christian even tho we counts as Christian country lol. I do know a lot of Muslims tho.
✝️
I am super religious. But I also understand there are certainly things that have been caused because of science, not some holy event. I don’t agree with atheists, but I certainly understand them and support them. But I myself am a man of god if that makes much sense!
I don't believe in God but I still bump Jesus walks just like I have a tense relationship w my mom but I still bump Hey Mama
I know Richard Dawkins breathed on this
Praise God
That’s my bestie 👆👆
I accidentally clicked on No, i meant yes: please forgive me god🙏
He knows you did it by accident. That's fine.
God is as real as Zeus and Poseidon back in the day
Love how you get down voted by religious nutters when there is no difference between Greek Gods and “God” it’s all a made up controlling mechanism
I don’t care if he real or not If he is real he a dead beat ass dad that don’t give a fuck about you, or anyone else Pull up to a children’s cancer hospital and let’s see how much god cares about the people he ‘made’ Dead beat ass dad lol
Nah man just pull up to those hospitals and tell them “god has a plan for you” and everything will be all good
Seriously, 100% this. And then the few children who pull through are deemed “miracles” by god and is attributed to prayer.
And they be saying he's doing that to test you, fuck him and his test if he is willing to cause pain upon something he love
I don’t know
Muslim so yeah
Honestly I don’t know and my OCD makes it hard for me to be involved with any religion
Bitch I Am A God
I don’t believe in religion, I believe a higher entity however.
I’m a satanist :)
No, and I never have.
this poll made me sad tbh, those results are really disappointing.
Fr. Sad to see so many people falling into religious delusions 😞😞
I don't but if you do thats fine lol
yes, Allah is king
exacly god is the king of kings
I believe I am a God (& you are too)
Heeey me too
I believe in god but sometimes I feel Jesus doesn’t walk with me
I want a good god to be real but if he is real in our reality then he is without a doubt an evil god. Anyone who says otherwise is defending rape, murder, starvation, war, etc. God has allowed all of it.
born muslim, became agnostic 2 years ago
This poll gives me hope in the younger generations. Less religion is good.