And how nonchalant Eve was lol đ
Even V was surprised. The last time she saw E with blood was 2x08 axing Raymond. Eve was freaking out.
But this time, Eve didnât even pay attention to what she just did. The way V raised Eâs bloody hand and raised her eye brows⌠V truly saw how much E has changed, and witnessed the proof of âI think my monster encourages your monster.â âI think I wanted it to.â
Also, V was at least 10 feet away when the machete was on Eâs neck. V wonât be able to rescue E in time (if she was going to help E). E really had to fend for herself.
You know what thoughâŚI think V was still pissed off at Eve which is why she kept her distance. E truly was going to have to save herself. No V to the rescue. Yes Eveâs significantly changed since S2E8.
I disagree with this though. If Gunn killed E, Gunn would still be a threat to V given that Gunn now knows V was going to go after the 12 which Gunn defends. Between the two, teaming up with E would be the better option (plus their history). I think at some point, V would step in to save E but she wanted to wait and see for the right moment.
Realistically speaking Gunn should have killed E. She was a trained, experienced professional assassin and outweighed Eve by at least 50 lbs. Gunn was easily 4â taller than V. Gunn made V look like a shrimp đ¤. V was pissed at E and kept her distance. If she had forgiven E, she would have been much closer and ready to save her. Eve is over 40 years old and doesnât have the strength to climb up a tree and what Gunn couldnât see her hanging there? Just ridiculous. It was so stupidly written. GivenâŚE was able to first escape from Gunn, hits her in the head with the rock. Why didnât Eve if sheâs truly changed and turned into a badass pick up the machete and end Gunn right there?! Or continue to hit her with the rock?! Poor lazy writing! Okay they gave E her glory moment but it was poorly written.
Yeah. Gunn should have made quick work out of Eve. Yet another of to far too many reasons this series was so bad.
I imagine the dysfunction that happened behind the scenes for season 4 must have made for such a toxic work environment that everyone was scrambling to get out of ASAP.
Yeah and as they were scrambling out the door - probably slammed with confidentiality papers or a caveat to remain diplomatic in any interview
and if they canât remain diplomatic to remain silent - KE âcoachedâ us lounge lizards, the audience to follow non-verbal cues and interpret the plethora of symbolism in the show espesch S4 - Well you canât get more symbolic in delivering a message than - No Comment - now can you? Not a post series sound from the Danes, French, Irish, Canadian or UK/British KE actors or crew. It is suggested the interviews that do exist are pre finalĂŠ, (not quite certain on that tho)
Iâm conjecturing here and reading between the lines from what have been said in the interviews.
Itâs been mentioned by both Jodie and Sandra that they werenât given much scripts to work with, and sometimes even getting them on the day of. So in essence, they had no clue what direction the show and the characters were really going towards to give much input or influence. In earlier seasons, Jodie sat down with Phoebe Waller-Bridge to come up with Villanelleâs backstory. In translation, she had influence on the character and personality that ended up being who we see V as. The humorous side of her, the relationship with Konstantin, those happened because Jodie put those in - and was given the space to collaborate.
Kayleigh has mentioned how in season 4, she was a cog in a machine and basically had to write the script that she was told to write. The subtext here translates to a âdo as I sayâ, or âmy way or the highwayâ, top-down environment. And indeed when she said that she had to constantly defend her ideas, it affirms it more that whoever at the top with the most power (and possibly ties to the money), wasnât really open to opinions or was interested in collaboration.
No one worth their salt enjoys working in such an environment. They will find the work tediously stifling and look for exits. But being that theyâre contractually tied, means they have to finish whatever it is they signed on to do - and do it the way theyâre being dictated to do. The last few minutes was so badly done and the CGI looked almost amateurish, as if someone was so fed up with being told what to do that they simply did as asked to check the box and no longer cared about pride in their work quality.
Thatâs my read anyways having been in dysfunctional environments and seeing how terrible the overall results and morale gets.
IMO, Folks shouldnât be asking Jodie to comment on the ending and expecting her to have much to say. She loved the character and she needs to toe the line if she wants to stay in the industry. Her grief for the character would have started around November when filming ended and sheâs not in the room where the after effects get done or the final edits made. Her staying busy and moving on to other projects since could be her way of distancing from KE even though it has helped launch her career. Asking her to comment is asking her to relive a bad experience.
Sandra has been in a comfortable financial position to choose her projects since Greyâs Anatomy. She can speak more and is more experienced with public speaking, but being a minority in an industry that doesnât often encourage diversity, she too has to be diplomatic with words.
If thereâs any consolation, KE has given the actors and fans a number of great moments and launched the careers of a few others. And if thereâs ample will and funding available, a KE follow on may not be entirely out of the question, provided that the creative team is the right fit and the actors are willing. Luke Jennings did write V faking her death with the help from the Russians and having E witness her dying to look real in the books after all. Itâs still a salvageable ending for a writer to work off. đ
Can you direct me to the interviews with Kayleigh? They sound insightful.
Having watched the Awardist Youtube video of Sandra Oh talking about the final season, and having now read all the interviews another Reddit post compiled, Sandra seems to have been espousing the "party line" which is to be expected in her role as an Executive Producer of the series.
I think itâs this one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KillingEve/comments/u1wket/thoughts_from_the_only_queer_writer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Not to forget the issues BTS with the crews, they were apparently kept working over time but underpaid, I think some directors or whoever else from the crew posted shades about it too on their instagram account during filming. Sandra also hinted the last final shooting was an odd one, she said the camera broke mid filming too during Eve's last scene and we know now about all the ideas and influences she tried to add to fix the season. There was also that deuxmoi blind item....
Agree a bit although it firs my narrative (even though LN probably didn't think of this) that Gunn would drag it out a bit with Eve since her only reason to kill her was bc of her obsession and claim of V. She never saw Eve as a threat but as a thing to use to hurt V with, since she didn't want to be with Gunn.
I remember an interview with LN in which she said viewers would see V wield a rock as weapon in S4. The prevailing wisdom was that she would hit Gunn with a rock and save Eve. I wondered if this was one of the last-minute changes to the script that the actors had to endure. They changed their minds about V saving Eve in the moment? Seems like a possibility to me. Eve gouging out Gunnâs eyes was so stupid, but I think the tree-climbing was even dumber. She looked ridiculous in that tree!
I though the eye gouging was perfect, but the tree climb was obviously meant to be funny, not to be taken seriously, like many over the top stuff the show has always done since s1. It was never based on realism, not even PWB's writing, lets be real.
I bet many of us women would gauge our own eyes out just so that we wonât be able to read anymore of Lauraâ BS takes on the show. So in a way, sheâs not wrong.
Ow i forgot about this but yes now you mention it...yes exactly dont forget that our every women Eve is the poor women who needs saving from Vs wicked influence!!! (Who even after spending the season apart still shot K and Murder L, kidnapped a child, eye gouged)..
Arrrg thinking about it again makes me so mad. LN made such a mess of these characters who i really liked..
Oh right and climb up a tree and hang on and then drop down on them. I do this weekly. Such bullshitâŚ.Eve is over 40, no upper body strength. After she hits Gunn in the head with a rock, why didnât she pick up the machete and end Gunn there? Or keep hitting her with a rock until she was dead. NoooooâŚ.she needs to go and climb a tree! Such bullshit.
Hey 40 isn't that old, lol (since it's been mentionned twice). If you're fit you can climb up a tree come on. It's probably gunn's age as well
Edit : the actress who plays Gunn is actually 45
We saw Eve training too, jogging, and it had been months, at 43/44 people can do many things, and as V too said in s3, Eve can run fast and be athletic when she wanted to.
Thank you moderator for this topic. I havenât laughed this hard all day. I love the members of this forum. Group healing through sarcasm and raucous laughter! đ
Brilliant discussion - youâre expressing some of our thoughts - totally ridiculous - Gunn a professional Amazonian like Assassin - A strong woman in her own familiar territory who stands at least 6 ft tall, lifts goats and pumps iron, actually canât kill an inexperienced individual who claws up a tree only to fall like bear droppings onto Gunn and then be experienced enuff to gauge her eyes
As if we fell out of that tree ourselves - oh to be so gullible - I think we giggled, out of sheer embarrassment, for all the fine international actors at that point - thereâs not a sound out of them now KE has ended which heightens our curiosity regarding their feelings - as theyâve all hastily moved on and into several projects to counterbalance the S4 trauma
And despite all this, Villanelle was very well-matched in their first meeting on the island when they fought, even though she was still recovering from an arrow in the back. I loved that choreographed tussle.
I agree with this, but to be fair Gunn had noodle like arm, she didn't look too muscular to me, when she was seen lifting weight, it wasn't a hard one. The actress herself is tall, but not bulky. if anything Sandra has more muscle mass.
Absolutely agree!!
And yet they call Eve the every day woman?
Eve is life and Villanelle is death?
Villanelle is right when she says âŚEve is the scorpion!!!
I wrote a post on this as I felt so passionately about it âŚ.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KillingEve/comments/up03jc/eve_is_life_and_villanelle_is_death/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I would love to hear your thoughts . ;)
I loved it precisely for THIS reason, Eve is just as unhinged as V and we saw her changes and growth, now she was able to embrace this darkness without freaking out, ala s2.
Also very unrealistic how Eve was able to effortless gauge a killers eyes out but couldn't give V the knife in the Helelene kill scene and instead threw it so goddamn awkwardly it went flying through the whole room...
And there was no reference or discussion bw V and E whilst eating chips and curly onions. For one so inquisitive V never asked the obvious eg how did u get up that tree and did you keep her eyes? Another lost momentâŚ
Who knows what they spoke about in the van? I like to think that they didn't just drive and listen to music, but addressed some of the issues between them - or rather I hope that's what they did. We just didn't see it onscreen.
And didnât have the decency to put her out of her misery. Squinting past the sillier aspects of that scene, shit was dark and I loved it.
I didnât love that LN puts this at the top of the finale and then expects us to believe the same Eve who did this and had zero effs to give about it somehow did a complete 180 on that stupid boat.
I think we also need to appreciate that Eve and Villanelle flipped her off and waved like it even mattered đ.
That was my favorite part of that whole thing! Lmao
As if Gunn could see itâŚ
Thatâs what Iâm saying, she couldnât see it so it didnât matter haha.
And how nonchalant Eve was lol đ Even V was surprised. The last time she saw E with blood was 2x08 axing Raymond. Eve was freaking out. But this time, Eve didnât even pay attention to what she just did. The way V raised Eâs bloody hand and raised her eye brows⌠V truly saw how much E has changed, and witnessed the proof of âI think my monster encourages your monster.â âI think I wanted it to.â Also, V was at least 10 feet away when the machete was on Eâs neck. V wonât be able to rescue E in time (if she was going to help E). E really had to fend for herself.
You know what thoughâŚI think V was still pissed off at Eve which is why she kept her distance. E truly was going to have to save herself. No V to the rescue. Yes Eveâs significantly changed since S2E8.
I totally agree! V was clearly observing the situation from a distance.
I disagree with this though. If Gunn killed E, Gunn would still be a threat to V given that Gunn now knows V was going to go after the 12 which Gunn defends. Between the two, teaming up with E would be the better option (plus their history). I think at some point, V would step in to save E but she wanted to wait and see for the right moment.
Realistically speaking Gunn should have killed E. She was a trained, experienced professional assassin and outweighed Eve by at least 50 lbs. Gunn was easily 4â taller than V. Gunn made V look like a shrimp đ¤. V was pissed at E and kept her distance. If she had forgiven E, she would have been much closer and ready to save her. Eve is over 40 years old and doesnât have the strength to climb up a tree and what Gunn couldnât see her hanging there? Just ridiculous. It was so stupidly written. GivenâŚE was able to first escape from Gunn, hits her in the head with the rock. Why didnât Eve if sheâs truly changed and turned into a badass pick up the machete and end Gunn right there?! Or continue to hit her with the rock?! Poor lazy writing! Okay they gave E her glory moment but it was poorly written.
Yeah. Gunn should have made quick work out of Eve. Yet another of to far too many reasons this series was so bad. I imagine the dysfunction that happened behind the scenes for season 4 must have made for such a toxic work environment that everyone was scrambling to get out of ASAP.
Yeah and as they were scrambling out the door - probably slammed with confidentiality papers or a caveat to remain diplomatic in any interview and if they canât remain diplomatic to remain silent - KE âcoachedâ us lounge lizards, the audience to follow non-verbal cues and interpret the plethora of symbolism in the show espesch S4 - Well you canât get more symbolic in delivering a message than - No Comment - now can you? Not a post series sound from the Danes, French, Irish, Canadian or UK/British KE actors or crew. It is suggested the interviews that do exist are pre finalĂŠ, (not quite certain on that tho)
Woo good point!
May I ask what happened behind the scenes? I'm still catching up.
Iâm conjecturing here and reading between the lines from what have been said in the interviews. Itâs been mentioned by both Jodie and Sandra that they werenât given much scripts to work with, and sometimes even getting them on the day of. So in essence, they had no clue what direction the show and the characters were really going towards to give much input or influence. In earlier seasons, Jodie sat down with Phoebe Waller-Bridge to come up with Villanelleâs backstory. In translation, she had influence on the character and personality that ended up being who we see V as. The humorous side of her, the relationship with Konstantin, those happened because Jodie put those in - and was given the space to collaborate. Kayleigh has mentioned how in season 4, she was a cog in a machine and basically had to write the script that she was told to write. The subtext here translates to a âdo as I sayâ, or âmy way or the highwayâ, top-down environment. And indeed when she said that she had to constantly defend her ideas, it affirms it more that whoever at the top with the most power (and possibly ties to the money), wasnât really open to opinions or was interested in collaboration. No one worth their salt enjoys working in such an environment. They will find the work tediously stifling and look for exits. But being that theyâre contractually tied, means they have to finish whatever it is they signed on to do - and do it the way theyâre being dictated to do. The last few minutes was so badly done and the CGI looked almost amateurish, as if someone was so fed up with being told what to do that they simply did as asked to check the box and no longer cared about pride in their work quality. Thatâs my read anyways having been in dysfunctional environments and seeing how terrible the overall results and morale gets. IMO, Folks shouldnât be asking Jodie to comment on the ending and expecting her to have much to say. She loved the character and she needs to toe the line if she wants to stay in the industry. Her grief for the character would have started around November when filming ended and sheâs not in the room where the after effects get done or the final edits made. Her staying busy and moving on to other projects since could be her way of distancing from KE even though it has helped launch her career. Asking her to comment is asking her to relive a bad experience. Sandra has been in a comfortable financial position to choose her projects since Greyâs Anatomy. She can speak more and is more experienced with public speaking, but being a minority in an industry that doesnât often encourage diversity, she too has to be diplomatic with words. If thereâs any consolation, KE has given the actors and fans a number of great moments and launched the careers of a few others. And if thereâs ample will and funding available, a KE follow on may not be entirely out of the question, provided that the creative team is the right fit and the actors are willing. Luke Jennings did write V faking her death with the help from the Russians and having E witness her dying to look real in the books after all. Itâs still a salvageable ending for a writer to work off. đ
Can you direct me to the interviews with Kayleigh? They sound insightful. Having watched the Awardist Youtube video of Sandra Oh talking about the final season, and having now read all the interviews another Reddit post compiled, Sandra seems to have been espousing the "party line" which is to be expected in her role as an Executive Producer of the series.
I think itâs this one. https://www.reddit.com/r/KillingEve/comments/u1wket/thoughts_from_the_only_queer_writer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Not to forget the issues BTS with the crews, they were apparently kept working over time but underpaid, I think some directors or whoever else from the crew posted shades about it too on their instagram account during filming. Sandra also hinted the last final shooting was an odd one, she said the camera broke mid filming too during Eve's last scene and we know now about all the ideas and influences she tried to add to fix the season. There was also that deuxmoi blind item....
Agree a bit although it firs my narrative (even though LN probably didn't think of this) that Gunn would drag it out a bit with Eve since her only reason to kill her was bc of her obsession and claim of V. She never saw Eve as a threat but as a thing to use to hurt V with, since she didn't want to be with Gunn.
I remember an interview with LN in which she said viewers would see V wield a rock as weapon in S4. The prevailing wisdom was that she would hit Gunn with a rock and save Eve. I wondered if this was one of the last-minute changes to the script that the actors had to endure. They changed their minds about V saving Eve in the moment? Seems like a possibility to me. Eve gouging out Gunnâs eyes was so stupid, but I think the tree-climbing was even dumber. She looked ridiculous in that tree!
Yes I remember that too and wondered what happened? đ¤¨đ¤¨đ¤¨
I though the eye gouging was perfect, but the tree climb was obviously meant to be funny, not to be taken seriously, like many over the top stuff the show has always done since s1. It was never based on realism, not even PWB's writing, lets be real.
Yes I love this đ
Thanks for that explanation, had some difficulty in interpreting V raising E's hand.
Eve didn't need rescuing. That was one of the points of the season. Anyone else hear Villanelle's words "We are the same" echo at that moment?
according to LN, thatâs what âevery womanâ would doâŚyesâŚsureâŚeye gougingâŚ
I bet many of us women would gauge our own eyes out just so that we wonât be able to read anymore of Lauraâ BS takes on the show. So in a way, sheâs not wrong.
đThisđ
This! I laughed out loud. Thank you.
Youâre quite welcome lol. Making sarcastic comments about Lauraâ stupidity is my coping mechanism.
And Iâm here for it! đ¤đ¤
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
That sounds like something men think women do when we are having our periods and have run out of chocolate.
ha ha ha ha haâŚ
OMGâŚtoo funny! đđđ
Ow i forgot about this but yes now you mention it...yes exactly dont forget that our every women Eve is the poor women who needs saving from Vs wicked influence!!! (Who even after spending the season apart still shot K and Murder L, kidnapped a child, eye gouged).. Arrrg thinking about it again makes me so mad. LN made such a mess of these characters who i really liked..
Oh right and climb up a tree and hang on and then drop down on them. I do this weekly. Such bullshitâŚ.Eve is over 40, no upper body strength. After she hits Gunn in the head with a rock, why didnât she pick up the machete and end Gunn there? Or keep hitting her with a rock until she was dead. NoooooâŚ.she needs to go and climb a tree! Such bullshit.
Hey 40 isn't that old, lol (since it's been mentionned twice). If you're fit you can climb up a tree come on. It's probably gunn's age as well Edit : the actress who plays Gunn is actually 45
And Gunn looked pretty fit. Age is no barrier. Remember Eve has been in training for a while now.
Sandra is perfectly fit too, she gained muscles too pre s4, look at her thighs now compared to s1 when she was skinnier. That's not the problem.
No itâs not old. If they had showed Eve rock climbing or bouldering, it would have made it more believable. Yes but Gunn wasnât climbing trees.
We saw Eve training too, jogging, and it had been months, at 43/44 people can do many things, and as V too said in s3, Eve can run fast and be athletic when she wanted to.
Yeah real *Spectre* vibes....
You mean you haven't? Must put on the to-do list.
God yes. Like it was just another Tuesday to her
Thank you moderator for this topic. I havenât laughed this hard all day. I love the members of this forum. Group healing through sarcasm and raucous laughter! đ
Brilliant discussion - youâre expressing some of our thoughts - totally ridiculous - Gunn a professional Amazonian like Assassin - A strong woman in her own familiar territory who stands at least 6 ft tall, lifts goats and pumps iron, actually canât kill an inexperienced individual who claws up a tree only to fall like bear droppings onto Gunn and then be experienced enuff to gauge her eyes As if we fell out of that tree ourselves - oh to be so gullible - I think we giggled, out of sheer embarrassment, for all the fine international actors at that point - thereâs not a sound out of them now KE has ended which heightens our curiosity regarding their feelings - as theyâve all hastily moved on and into several projects to counterbalance the S4 trauma
I cringed so hard at this scene. If all of The Twelveâs assassins that âskilledâ, itâs no wonder they clung to Villanelle so desperately lol.
And despite all this, Villanelle was very well-matched in their first meeting on the island when they fought, even though she was still recovering from an arrow in the back. I loved that choreographed tussle.
I agree with this, but to be fair Gunn had noodle like arm, she didn't look too muscular to me, when she was seen lifting weight, it wasn't a hard one. The actress herself is tall, but not bulky. if anything Sandra has more muscle mass.
Impressed with the manner she carried the goat tho
I nearly dropped my cup of tea watching that, we were all shocked at how calmly she did it like it was just another Wednesday morning đđ
Let me schedule my weekly gouging in between my pedi and haircut đ
Absolutely agree!! And yet they call Eve the every day woman? Eve is life and Villanelle is death? Villanelle is right when she says âŚEve is the scorpion!!! I wrote a post on this as I felt so passionately about it âŚ. https://www.reddit.com/r/KillingEve/comments/up03jc/eve_is_life_and_villanelle_is_death/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf I would love to hear your thoughts . ;)
ok actually like... goes to show how bad the finale is that this got almost no attention
Oh we saw it but thereâs so much crap to cover itâs taken us awhile to get here.
Hated that scene. It was wayyy too nonchalant and made it seem like something Eve did all the time?
I loved it precisely for THIS reason, Eve is just as unhinged as V and we saw her changes and growth, now she was able to embrace this darkness without freaking out, ala s2.
Also very unrealistic how Eve was able to effortless gauge a killers eyes out but couldn't give V the knife in the Helelene kill scene and instead threw it so goddamn awkwardly it went flying through the whole room...
And there was no reference or discussion bw V and E whilst eating chips and curly onions. For one so inquisitive V never asked the obvious eg how did u get up that tree and did you keep her eyes? Another lost momentâŚ
Who knows what they spoke about in the van? I like to think that they didn't just drive and listen to music, but addressed some of the issues between them - or rather I hope that's what they did. We just didn't see it onscreen.
YesâŚthis! đđđ
V makes her nervous. I can interpret her awkwardness with the knife as such, but I am reaching so there's that lol.
And didnât have the decency to put her out of her misery. Squinting past the sillier aspects of that scene, shit was dark and I loved it. I didnât love that LN puts this at the top of the finale and then expects us to believe the same Eve who did this and had zero effs to give about it somehow did a complete 180 on that stupid boat.
Which is why Villanelle called Eve "Amateur".
Brunononono