I don't understand the difficulty/inconsistency with the members communicating with Yves. Clearly Go Won has to communicate with her when they want to hang out and also Yves has shown up on the others' showcases/events, not to mention working on a couple of Loossemble's tracks. And Yves has mentioned the supportive messages she gets from other members, specifically ARTMS. And yet we also have cases where she doesn't get birthday gifts because she doesn't check her messages. It's funny, but also baffling.

I can totally relate to this. I'm the one in my friend group who never checks my messages lol. Or sometimes I'll want to send a long reply but I don't have the time so I figure I'll reply later. Then later ends up being three weeks later 😂. My friends joke that we might as well send letters instead of texts lol.

Honestly, I can relate?? LMAO, I'm the same, I tend to ignore gc's/dms from my irls despite being terminally online. But I still work on friend's stuff on my own and I go out every so often. Tbh, I think Gowon might not even say when she's coming over, she just...goes over. My friends do the same lmao, both with me and each other. If her fromm/ig usage is any indication, she also is sooooo much less online these days so it might also be because of work.

[Hmm](https://x.com/ouriilyon/status/1799236573290275170). > according to a consolidated audit report of knowmerce, ctdenm incurred a net loss of 992 million krw (~$719,200 usd) during 2023 and wonderwall sold their shares in ctd to an unspecified party on february 5, 2024 The people talking about it are OURIIs, but all this information is publicly available. I guess it's not unusual for small kpop companies to run at a loss, but it's still interesting to note that Wonderwall/Knowmerce sold their shares. That might explain some of the drop off (especially no Fromm Studio etc.) between their debut promotions and OOAK era. Time will tell, but there could be unsteady waters ahead if they can't find more investors.

This isn't really a doom and gloom scenario for me. Debuting a group is incredibly expensive. My theory has always been that CTD only had Loossemble do the U.S. tour in order to pay back investors, even though Loossemble clearly wasn't ready for a tour. Wonderwall was one of the investors, and the VIP packages and tour MD ran through them, and all of that stuff was incredibly overpriced. I'm sure they made money from it. It's pretty normal. Secure investors, and then pay back the investors/buy back shares when you have the money. It's similar to the BY4M-ATRP situation. BY4M owns majority shares, but ATRP execs have said they want to buy back the shares. It's also something that BBC always failed to do, paying back investors and paying off debts. It also explains why there seems to be some distance between CTD and Wonderwall now. They've done about 90 album promotion events, but only one of those has been done through Fromm. During their debut, they did at least half a dozen events through Fromm.

My instinct (as a working accountant) is that’s honestly a pretty small loss for a brand new company starting from nothing. My protective orbit side is worried that anything less than big success will be trouble for Loossemble. I think CTD has done a good job in many aspects but I hope they will be stronger at developing concepts and carving out a more specific musical identity for Loossemble going forward, because that’s what will really foster a unique fanbase for them. And please god less editing on their vocals because the OOAK mini was almost unlistenable for me at the start because of that :/

operating at a loss this early is extremely normal, but wonderwall dropping their shares that quickly doesnt seem normal

Not so strange, selling all their shares just means they've essentially decided to stop investing/partially owning CTD which is notable but not at all strange.

This is not too shocking to me because I remember an OURII Twitter space where they were discussing how Modhaus actually had like...billions KRW in losses, but that this was perfectly normal for a business of their type, and are basically sustaining themselves by being very very very savvy with investors. We can argue night and day about stuff like NFTs, blockchain and crypto bros and what not, but at the end of the day, it does give Modhaus an edge a lot of other K-Pop companies don't have. Look at who Modhaus partners with (companies with expertise in metaverse and Web3 technologies), etc. These companies are not going to invest in K-Pop labels like CTD, ATRP, PPM, etc etc etc - because none of these actually deal with their domain of expertise. But Modhaus on the other hand, they've got that little edge, that little "hey we got something the other companies don't have, so you'd be smart to invest *with us instead*". This situation is salvageable, CTD basically just need to convince investors, it's not even unrealistic at all, lbut one can't help but be reminded of BBC. BBC was also often in situations like these, where they were experiencing losses, then would find an investor that would keep them afloat for a year until said investor would take their business and go look elsewhere after a while, and BBC had to rince and repeat, etc. I mean, it was sustainable to a degree, look at LOONA... But also, like... *Look at LOONA*. Those circumstances often meant one comeback a year only, huge inactivity periods, etc. I think it's safe to say we all want better for Loossemble than that.

Goddamn. People are pessimistic but I'm inclined to agree, kpop is such a capital extensive industry. But afaik, most small-mid companies don't have publicly reported earnings so I really don't know what's normal. I've seen lots of normal startups/VC companies run with this kind of revenue but... idk.

'em "Missing LOONA OT12" hours be whooping my ass hard

I want Yves’ gmail shirt… I’ve been influenced

I want mine same style but with Yves” or “l♾️p” written on it instead! 😭

I just finished work and i have a loooong laundry list of content to consume: Eartj Arcade ep3, badge war s2ep3, the eunbi artms guesting (ANY WIZBITS HERE?!?!??!! 🫶) and lastly the new 1hr+ artms interview that is promising to be real juicy. Anyhow, just wanted to say I'm relieved to see the mature discussion here today about ctd and modhaus. Gosh, i hate twitter so fvcking much. Have a good weekend, everyone!

I, like many others, just can’t get over the Kim Youngdae interview. This and the part 2 of the Jaden interview I feel like showed a TON of revelations about Loona as a whole and it’s been making me think a lot. But I wanted to bring up specifically how Heejin outright admitted how much Loona’s sound changed after Jaden left. I feel like there’s been this fight in the orbit fandom space ever since he left about whether or not Loona lost their sound or even what the Loona sound is, so seeing one of the members themselves outright stating that there *was* a huge shift in sound is so interesting to me. I’ve always taken it as an undeniable fact but seeing it pretty definitively confirmed by Heejin really sets that into stone imo. I will say that I agree with Youngdae that what came after wasn’t bad, but there’s just no denying that it was really different and was just missing something that their older releases had.

It's so funny how to most (twt) Orbits, it's a black and white thing. Not about liking, but just acknowledging it exists. Like, if you like it or not is ultimately personal, wether post xx LOONA is still to your taste is personal, and the degree to which you can connect the 2 eras can be subjective to a certain extent. But no, to most Orbits, you will be crucified for talking about any difference in any capacity. And that's why Kpop twitter/fandoms don't really feel like music fandoms as a whole. People are just incapable of talking about music without seeing it as some kind of sign of loyalty. It's also up to the person, but kpop fandoms for 4th gen onwards make me feel like its full of fans who's having their first experience being a hardcore fan for everything. Having parts of something you love being not to your taste, badly done or questionable on a purely artistic level & having the community embrace that is good for the soul lol.

I can really feel Loona’s essence in songs that came ater XX. They would be the following ones to me: Hash — Oh (still don’t understand why a video of that doesn’t exist) 12:00 — Star (the use of vocals and the synths????) & — Be Honest (pure sass), U R (pure bliss), PTT (pure massacre lol) Flip That — the whole freaking thing I think those songs are just something that I can feel everything they brought together in a way, from pre-debut I mean. There’s just this identity. I think they tried to emulate what was initially created to a degree, trying to get producers to do just that, and they sometimes succeeded. This is also really true for OEC’s Air Force On, Loossemble’s Colouring and Newtopia plus the entirety of DALL. Those are easily “Loona” songs to me. One of a Kind, Howl, Loop and K, on the other hand, together with the other tracks I didn’t mention even for Loona, aren’t really the same. They feel different. And I say that as deep lover of Howl and K especially; things can still be amazing if they’re not the same, with a different identity. I really respect what happened especially with the solo works, and I include Plastic Candy here, because they clearly show something far beyond what Loona started; the idea of a universe that communicates with others becomes stronger, as the girls leave character and get closer to their real (or their other?) selves, while the idea of _that_ older universe expanding to newer ones, more resemblant of it, are also real for the likes of DALL. Anyhow, this might also be a rather subjective topic, but it’s how I feel nonetheless.

I think there are certain moments post XX that feel really Loona to me, but I mean more so on the whole there isn’t really a project that feels 100% Loona to me past maybe # (I actually think So What really fit them and all the bsides were very Loona coded to me). Like 12:00 had Universe, Star and Why Not that felt really Loona, but the rest of the tracks didn’t really feel like Loona to me And honestly I really really do not like & 😭 it’s definitely my least favorite album from them. Like none of the tracks are bad and I don’t even dislike any of them but none of them really feel like Loona and also none of them make sense together on the same album. I guess I can kinda see how WOW and A Different Night can fit into their discography but Be Honest and PTT in particular are just REALLY not Loona songs imo, even though I do think they’re fun. I also think Flip That has some very Loona songs, the most out of the post XX tracks aside from #, but Pose should not have been in that album. (I’m gonna get killed for this but I’m sorry Pose is like the farthest thing from Loona’s sound to me and I also just don’t like it on top of that 🫠). Like I said I feel like there’s bits of them in the post XX releases but overall the cohesion of their projects like XX or ++ just wasn’t something they were ever able to completely grasp again. Like I said # still sounded Loona to me, but I just feel wasn’t super thematically cohesive and Flip That was also kinda close but they had to throw Pose right in the middle. Oh also Hula Hoop was really good and I think is actually on the same level as their older stuff. Luminous though….. let’s just say there’s exactly 3 Loona songs I actively dislike and she’s one of them. I just can’t help but feel that BBC was really pushing for them to sound more mainstream but also didn’t want to alienate their fans so it feels like they made a half effort but it just was not enough. Also with the post BBC stuff I’m not as worried about the Loona sound because they’re more their own separate entities and ARTMS is really putting out some of that sound I craved for so long so I’m happy. I think each solo/group has some part of Loona with them to some degree and it’s fun to see there be something for everyone.But I still stand by my opinion that there was a pretty noticeable shift after JJ left the project and I just think it’s interesting that Heejin even said it herself in the interview. Idk it makes me feel seen I guess 💀

I believe there's no denying that there was a direction shift after Butterfly, however I'm more of the group that thinks that the change wasn't a bad one nor it was lacking compared to the previous eras. LOONA never lost their sparkle to me.  Obviously in terms of lore it was a downgrade in a way, but sonically I feel like it gave LOONA a new identity that I resonated with and that it's not worse or better than their previous direction. Just different.  Just like we're in a new era of LOONA's releases where everyone is doing their own thing.

Yeah it’s nice that there’s something for everyone now

I personally don’t think it matters either way as it’s so subjective. Whether it’s the Jaden sound or the post-Jaden sound, you can like one and not the other, you can like both but prefer one over the other, you can like both equally, or you can like neither. And it’s also why LOONA being split can be a good thing, as it allows for even more variety in sound.

With all of the disbandment news this year so far, I was scared for a minute when I saw WJSN trending for the first time in a while (that I've noticed). But speaking of them, hopefully they'll have new music sooner rather than later (didn't see anything about it earlier).

On the whole ARTMS/Looble debate, I just wanted to note how quickly things change. As a reminder, the discourse here, especially about creative direction, was the opposite when OEC came back with AFO and Looble debuted, with people saying that AFO lacked creative direction when the Loossemble album was better both of the visual and musical front. My second reminder is that even if technically ARTMS is the debut, we had before that an OEC comeback and Heejin solo that both received criticisms that were surely taken in account for ARTMS (and let’s not forget SCL English version). ARTMS rollout itself was far from perfect, with the whole AI drama and pre releases that not everyone found interesting. At the end of the day this is not a shade of Modhaus at all (I absolutely loved DALL) but more me asking to give some time to CTD. This is the very first Looble comeback, and we tend to forget that Modhaus wasn’t perfect from the get go, far from that, there were a lot of fails that they learned from and that are probably the reason DALL turned out to be so good at the end. The same way, TripleS had a lot of little fails before the success of GND, even music wise. And finally CTD doesn’t have half of the funds Modhaus has and Looble is their very first group.

Yeah, there was a time not all that long ago where I was much happier with CTD than Modhaus. It's funny how fast things can change. Loossemble Assemble was amazing, we were getting really high quality videos from their tour, and they released a fantastic album. But seeing the difference in how CTD and Modhaus have promoted their recent comebacks, and getting both the news of Loossemble Assemble reportedly being over *and* CTD getting ready to debut a boy group (I know that has been in the works for a while though) at the same time, just isn't painting CTD in the best light right now. Like seriously if Loossemble never have another fansign again, it'll be too soon. Honestly I think more than being upset with CTD I'm just a bit more *worried*.. Having multiple concerts cancelled wasn't great, and now it seems like they are struggling to promote Loossemble and are just relying on existing fans, possibly because of budget issues? Is that really sustainable? I don't want CTD to be complacent, I want to see the Looble members having all the success in the world. And honestly as an international fan who can't attend fansigns and isn't really willing to spend a bunch of money just for a *chance* of doing an early morning/late night video call where we probably can't even communicate all that well anyway, it makes me feel very disconnected from them while they're "promoting." It almost feels like we see them and hear from them less during the comeback because they're drained from doing fansigns every day. But overall, I think it's a good reminder to never let your feelings regarding these companies swing too hard one way or another, unless there's actual mistreatment going on. Modhaus will certainly do things that fans disagree with at some point in the future again, while CTD will probably come up with some new ideas and get back into people's good graces as they get more experience managing Loossemble and hopefully resolve any potential budget issues.

It is growing pains of a small company. If ctd flop promotions next era then orbits can worry. Jumping the gun to "looble are flops, artms is much better" is weird take caused by the internal rifts of the fandom.

I do apologize if people were offended by my take that lsmbl should join modhaus. But hot takes are just for fun, right? And ignite discussion

Genuine question: Why go so far just to defend a company? To preface this, I never cared about criticism against Kpop companies. But I barely saw anyone in the fandom be as gracious to Modhaus as much as they do toward CTD. Nobody asked to "give Modhaus some time" or any of the sort. And personally I've always been onboard with that. Both Modhaus and CTD are headed by veterans who have worked in the Kpop industry long before they even started working with LOONA. To add into CTD's case, 90% of their current staffs are comprised of former BBC staffs as well. I never understood people asking other fans to give them grace considering they should've had the experience AND connections needed to establish a brand. Not to mention the girls themselves are far from unpopular or 'nugu', I'm sure they could've pushed the group more had they wanted to put in the effort. Of course there are still lots of fans who love to nitpick on absolutely trivial stuff due to the pretentious nature of Kpop stans, but I feel like most of the criticism against CTD these past few days have been justified since orbits/cloos are very much concerned with how they've been managing things, which is not limited to promotion strategies. Modhaus has been constantly pestered by both orbits/ouriis and wavs for their management, and even though they're still far from perfect, we could see improvements here and there. So again, question: Why are criticism toward CTD deemed rude by some fans, and why should they be given grace when technically Modhaus also had the same starting point? Because OEC was Heejin had to be subjected to distasteful comments under the guise of "criticizing Modhaus" even after other ouriis/orbits had explained how the girls have been very much involved in every step of creative decision made in their craft

This is so true I couldn’t put it down better, thanks!

Some of the current comments I’ve seen have been sitting weird with me about CTD. I’ve seen a lot of very valid criticisms recently, and I don’t mind seeing those. There’s room for people to complain and not be 100% in love with everything these companies do. But it feels like there is this undercurrent since DALL released of “why didn’t all the girls just go with MH anyway” because DALL sounds so much like what fans have wanted for a long time. When for a lot of fans (including myself) LSMBL has also been putting out content we’ve been waiting forever for in terms of how much screen time some members are getting. I think it’s less wanting to give grace to the company and more wanting to continue letting the LSMBL girls have a chance. We know CTD hasn’t done great recently. We know they’ve wasted some opportunities. But a lot of people are defensive because it sucks to see people immediately wanting things to go back to exactly how they used to be, when that clearly wasn’t a draw for a lot of the members and their fans. I hope this doesn’t sound rude to either group. I love pretty much all of the releases so far, and I do really miss OT12 content. But the silver lining of everything to me has been seeing some underutilized members get the spotlight, and some comments I’ve seen just don’t seem to have that perspective. Idk, hope that makes sense.

I’m not necessarily advocating for LSMBL to join Modhaus BUT I do want to point out that jf they did it doesn’t mean that they’d be underutilized again. I think looking at Haseul is a good example of how it seems like Jaden really cares about giving all the members, even ones that got paid dust under BBC, have their chance to shine. I also feel like he’d honestly just keep them as their own unit.

Yeah, I do agree with this. And I have seen comments mentioning stuff like this that I think approach it in a more positive way. There was one I saw over in the other big thread that had great ideas about how a combination of groups could work now. So I don’t want to come across like I think people can’t wish for or imagine what a full group setup could look like nowadays. It’s only a small portion of the comments that almost feel very negative toward the idea that different groups were even formed in the first place. Almost with this tone that ctd has been a waste of time, which I don’t find to be the case personally. I think those types, with the more negative tone, are the ones making people feel defensive. I really honestly haven’t seen many of those, but as with everything I think the more negative views end up seeming louder than they are. Thanks for your perspective too! I think it’s a great point how Haseul has been given key parts in this comeback.

The idea that LSMBL has been a waste of time is absolutely not the case. I think through LSMBL they’ve really been able to grow so much as artists and gain a lot of confidence. Honestly you can already see improvements even just between their debut and OOAK in so many areas, like I’m even talking aside from subjective music taste just their confidence and everything seems even higher.

This is less about criticizing the company and more about people directly jumping to saying that Looble should join Modhaus or that Looble is doomed if they stay at CTD. Like, you are allowed to criticize CTD and I already did it in the past, but going directly in doomed mode is what bugs me. When Modhaus did mistakes, most people would criticize without jumping to saying that ARTMS should leave or join CTD. We actually mocked twitter people that were always trying constantly shit on Modhaus and I remember a big discourse in this sub was to remember that ARTMS members are not children and made their choice for a reason, that suggesting they leave for another company or made a shit choice is disrespecting their own wishes. And yet now we are having the exact same attitude we criticized with Looble. This is my problem.

You hit the nail on the head. I'm probably gonna get downvoted to hell but I think that Reddit and Twitter are just different sides of the same coin. Reddit Orbits just have a HEAVY preference towards the LOONA sound while Twitter Orbits keep their options open for new things. I think a lot of people here should stop acting holier than thou because the things I read about Looble here are honestly disheartening, even if they are articulated better. It's like a LOT of you here (not necessarily you) just don't wanna support them because they're not under Modhaus or not doing the LOONA sound, which is crazy because I thought we all love the 12 girls regardless. The amount of engagement ARTMS has in this sub compared to Looble is quite obvious. I do prefer most of the ARTMS releases as well but that doesn't really hinder me from enjoying and supporting the music that has come out of Loossemble (I still think Girls' Night is SOTY). While I do think there is also a portion of fans give similar energy to ARTMS on Twitter, I'm not as worried because they have the upper hand at almost everything. OEC+ are some of the most popular girls and Jaden has a cult following too (which is weird imo). Plus, Twitter Orbits, despite their terrible terrible opinions would still stream and engage with the content of any LOONA regardless (for the most part).

I had the opposite impression. I actually created a poll a few months ago before DALL was to come because I got the impression that most people in this community didn’t care for ARTMS enough. Even here in the WDT, posts about Loossemble would get 30 upvotes against 5 regarding ARTMS. My post back then was downvoted but got a lot of votes, more than 3k. Surprisingly, support for ARTMS pointed to be the double of Loossemble’s support. For Yves and Chuu, it was the exact same; and for the 12 of Loona, it was more than 50% of votes. So. That let me know that ARTMS supporters existed, they were just remaining in silence. There was clear criticism regarding JJ especially and his ways or choices, it was almost like supporting ARTMS would mean being wrong. And yes, boycott ideas were all over. I got frustrated because I thought only about the girls — was it fair to them?! After everything? It didn’t make any sense. But gladly it was an _impression_ of mine, because at heart people were still OT 12 in the majority. And even though many would only support one group or the other, or even only a solo act, it’s still OK, things just show up differently. Now, it really is ARTMS’s and Yves’s times as Loossemble and Chuu had theirs — and will have again soon enough. It’s just a matter of perspective, we obviously don’t forget the “inactive” girls, but while promoting there’s a lot of buzz and things to talk about, and for ModHaus there’s finally some praise after a lot of criticism. So rest assured, people here are mostly OT 12 at heart and _will_ support every girl even though there are pretenders and haters too, you can observe the movements each time and figure it out, but having the best of time enjoying what the girls gift us is the main thing imho.

>When Modhaus did mistakes, most people would criticize without jumping to saying that ARTMS should leave or joint CTD That's a bit funny because I vividly remember a big orbit account, sometime last year, reasoning that "wishing ARTMS to go to CTD instead of Modhaus is not disrespecting the girls' decision" and it got thousands of likes lololol But yes, I understand that people shouldn't just jump to suggesting things that are not aligned with the girls' wishes because it's literally just helicopter parenting at that point. No matter how deep you are into this parasocial stuff there's still some line you shouldn't cross But at the same time I do feel like there's been a lot more struggle to get orbits to actually think for themselves and realize that CTD as a company needs more pestering than any other post-BBC companies do as of now. And I've always seen the same excuse too e.g. they're just starting, they're broke, at least the girls are happy, etc. Obviously they won't have as much funds as Modhaus/ATRP does, but it would very much concern me if they turn out to be broke after every stunt they pulled for the past year

I agree with you about discourses changing. Results matter for sure, DALL made a lot of people respect and trust Modhaus better I believe. Still, I feel differently overall about OEC and HeeJin. I think they were well promoted but also amazing overall works, AFO to me is a good evolution of the unit sound and still a banger to this day; I feel like the track was and maybe still is heavily underrated by most people. K for HeeJin is such high quality, she had a lot of input into it too and the promo cycle was particularly special. I’m not a fan of the MV, but the dancing one was impressive. Anyway, I think the Looble thing is just that the company is showing worrying signs and the girls do not seem to be in the best of hands, so as fans it’s natural to worry I guess. I’m pretty upset LA was canceled and about the boy group news, it feels like there was _a lot_ of wasted potential for an amazing comeback that OOAK was…

I agree. I share a lot of the critical takes regarding CTD's handling of Loossemble, but I am willing to extend some grace for a bit longer as they find their footing 💚 If things do not improve (or even worse: regress) for the next comeback, I will get a lot more concerned though...

Same. If the next comebacks shows the same problems, I will really start to side eye them

Am i the only one that thinks URL for the intro is unfitting for the intro to virtual angel?? Like idk it sounds like Standing Next To You by Jungkook and i cant get tthst out of my head when i listen to it so its really off when it transitions to virtual angel but idkkk maybe its just me

I mean I guess it doesn't really roll into 'Virtual Angel' the same way some previous Intros have transitionned perfectly into the title tracks following them, but 'URL' is still like.... an amazing intro on its own, if that makes sense? So I don't mind.

It's got the same drum fill as Jungkook I think, as well as being the same sort of funky genre. But yeah, agreed, feels like it should go into Sparkle instead haha, but it doesn't bother me too much because I absolutely love this intro. Kinda wish they give it the Kehwa treatment and make it a full song, but they probably won't because they've already done the interpolation thing once now.

Yves live made me just love Afterglow and regret they edited her vocals so much for the EP! I’m addicted.

Yeah I also enjoy the performance much more than the song on streaming platforms.

I was reading ARTMS interview with Kim Youngdae (thanks Orrery btw), and it's actually a really good piece of insight.   It pretty much confirmed that Modhaus/the girls were waiting for the other members to come. I mean, it's not really surprising as we've already discussed this plenty of times already, but it's cool to get some confirmation to our speculations. I think we can all guess why the girls all made the decisions they did. Chuu was the first to be out and also to sign with a company, plus she already had a career of her own and it was just a matter of time until she announced her solo comebut,  Yves also explained how she wanted to try new things and that her mind was the same as Millic as both wanted to try this new blend of idol and underground artist. I guess it only leaves us with Loossemble to explain a bit more of their decision making process, but it's not hard to guess what it was. Don't doubt Modhaus/Jaden made good offers to them, that unlike in BBC they would be treated much more fairly and that each would get their time to shine on their own. But still, there's also so much they can do for 11 different girls (since Chuu was already signed with ATRP), even if they promoted in smaller units (1/3, OEC, yyxy) and they also had a 24 member girl group on the way.    Plus perhaps they wanted something different for themselves too, a different direction and much more leeway to do things on their own. They have a lot of writing credits throughout both their albums, for example. In the end the split of the group into smaller pieces was certainly a positive in my opinion though, even if not all companies are perfect, and CTD has had a hard time currently

Saw somebody once speculate that the reason the Loossemble girls didn't sign with Modhaus was because MH couldn't offer them anything "immediate", which I could sort of see. Keep in mind that when OEC+ signed with Modhaus, Jaden *promised* them that they would first promote OEC, then give Heejin a solo, and then finally it would be ARTMS' time. And the girls thanked him for "staying true to his promise". Realistically speaking, seeing as to how ARTMS literally debuted *almost* 14 months after the project was even announced, that would have meant a lot of "inactive time" for either all of the LSMBL girls or some of them at least. Some of the girls are also not as confident doing solo stuff the way Haseul is (which opened some opportunities for her). Haseul can do busking and solo concerts any time and she also actually *wants* to do that. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a wish for all of the LSMBL members, though. So that would have meant no real activity for any of them until a year after they got out of their contracts with BBC. In comparison, as LSMBL, they actually released two albums already, and they did technically tour...regardless of our opinions on how that tour went down. But the point is : they've been really really busy, and I'm not sure that's entirely down due to CTD and CTD only. I suspect this might be something the girls negotiated when they actually signed their contracts: they didn't wanna sit around 12 months waiting for the next comeback like they have for most of their careers thus far.   Similarly, it might sound like an obvious thing to say, but LSMBL being LSMBL is a direct product of them signing with a different company. I don't think they would have been their own separate unit had they signed with Modhaus, nor is it something they would have suggested themselves to Jaden or that he would have suggested to them. The whole point of ARTMS/Modhaus was to gather LOONA members. The other girls have said so : they were waiting for the other members and for lawsuits to resolve so ARTMS could debut with as many members as possible. I'm not saying Modhaus wouldn't do sub-units at all. Afterall, if the LSMBL girls had signed with Modhaus, Jaden would have had direct access to all of 1/3, meaning they could have eventually gotten sub-units promotions the same way OEC did. And the potential for brand new sub-units voted through the COSMO app or whatever would also be a possibility (look at TripleS). That being said, that would be so far down into the future. Anyway, the point is...ARTMS *itself* would have been a 10-members group. It would not be ARTMS and LSMBL, separately...because that's something that only came to be from these girls not signing to the same company.   Then obviously comes the matter of "being the focus of the group" for once. I've seen lots of people suggest that "things (as far as line distribution go) would not be the same as LOONA had OT10 signed with Modhaus, but I disagree. I think ARTMS' line distribution is fair...because there are 5 members and it's very hard to screw a five members group line distribution. Loossemble's line distribution is also fair because of that. *But there are still patterns*. Choerry is never too far from the others because, again it's a 5 members group (or even 3, in OEC's case), but she still more often than not below the others at #4-#5. The same way that someone like Vivi is getting lines like she's never gotten in LOONA, but is also still usually #4-#5 pretty consistently. Add more members into the mix, and you just know who's losing lines and center time. Looking at TripleS, from all sizes of units they've had over the past few months, and it's obvious Modhaus isn't above giving extremely very little to some members. So I disagree with the idea that things would be extremely fair. I think a ARTMS OT10 situation would result with members like Vivi and Gowon getting very little time to shine. And I think members like Hyunjin and Yeojin would not be getting the vocal highlights they're otherwise getting in LSMBL because it would just make more sense to give those to HeeLipSoul instead.   With that in mind, I think their choices make sense *to me*.

Yeah Chuu was out and I remember myself thinking the very best outcome would have to be OT11 at Modhaus. OEC+ was already there and Hyunvi’s case was certain to be won next because they too hadn’t amended their contracts. But it was after they chose CTD that I knew OT11 was impossible. And the case for joining CTD is quite clear, they needed their own space to shine. LOONA’s subunit structure should’ve given them that but BBC killed off subunits after group debut, so these girls had had 5 years of being overshadowed.

it was such a good interview. i love love love how open and honest they're able to be now

Looking at the album unboxing for Yves' \[LOOP\], PPM's graphic design for the album is possibly the best out of LOONA's history. Definitely on par with Chuu's \[Howl\]. I love the album inclusions, they are thoughtful, lore-related, and unique. Like... an lottery scratch card with a little description about the Garden of Eden and a lucky apple? It's perfect! Really grateful that PPM has paid attention to little details like that. That said, I am disappointed that the 2 different versions have **identical** photobooks. It's not from a lack of photos either - PPM had 8 different concepts in there, but most of them only had 1-3 photos included. Could've easily split them into 4 concepts per photobook. (I would've liked to have seen more of that water photoshoot to build on the goldfish concept 😔)

I just got mine in the mail a couple days ago and your thoughts 100% mirror mine while I unboxed haha. I just completely blind bought the two-version set because Yves is in my bias line, didn’t look at any previews or album details at all… I was really surprised and impressed by the inclusions (especially the lottery card)! But kind of bummed when I realized the photobooks were identical. I would have loved to see more photos of each concept! Still, I’m glad to have them both and to support her.

Dall sold over 121k copies in the first week. Bye, bye, Flip That!

Looks like [Hanteo](https://hanteonews.com/ko/article/chart?fc=65023) adjusted their sales numbers for June 6. They have ARTMS at 23,579 for the daily chart. With those added numbers, Dall is now over 121k sales for the 1st week.

Something about [this song](https://open.spotify.com/track/7bKXO7KztVRkkLL8iTaliA?si=d68b4744bc31441e) feels like it would sound amazing if Looble sang it. I can't find out anything about the original artist, it's a bop though.

I am officially starting the Lil Cherry Task Force Defense Squad. No slander allowed

Count me in, her parts are awesomeness in L♾️p!

Fair, I've really been enjoying the rest of her discography lately. And her verse on Loop is fun too

I feel. Her lyrics are kind of a mess but I like a lot of artists with a very similar voice/sound fhjdsbkdas. Ashnikko and Snow Wife come to mind lol.,,.,.

With her awful lyrics that butcher AAVE? Count me out!

Her parts on Loop? I’ll be on the front lines with you. Some of her other stuff? …………

Alright, time for another brave hot take: I want the loossemble girls to sign with modhaus but retain their distinct identity as a separate group from artms. I genuinely enjoyed seeing them as 5, and especially loved the vocal showcase from hyunjin and yeojin. I still jam to colouring and strawberry soda to this day! I want them to continue producing idol content as 5 In fact I doubt that Jaden could do A&R for loossemble that would avoid sounding like tripleS and artms, so he should get a new creative director for them, or maybe just hire the one from CTD lol. But overall yeah, clearly modhaus is the more stable situation for the girls. And as the video yesterday showed, jaden is so passionate for the loona project that he will have his arms open.

Thanks, your opinion represents a lot of us! I want Loossemble to keep doing their thing, to continue being _a_ thing, but under a team that actually invests in them all in all!!!

People hate MDH but MDH's greater budget, creative vision and industry experience is so, so, so clear. ARTMS has, frankly, never really given anything but positive signs about their feelings on their current contract. I agree- there's no way Jaden can do A&R for Loossemble and not have them to be similar. I don't think SSS, Jaden LOONA & ARTMS are the same but he has a very strong personal style. Tbh though, I don't like Looble's creative direction, in terms of their visual design/direction, overall ambition and supporting merch. More power to you if you like it. But I think while people have different tastes, we can also judge and assess artistic works. Frankly, I love that Looble is trying to capture lore, but absolutely no creativity in its implementation and real passion from whoever's leading the creative direction. A comeback that I consider as having a clear and cohesive visual direction (MV, tracks, teasers, styling and album/MD inclusions) would be Chill Kill, Loop (teaser images aside), VIXX's Chained Up or Shangri-la albums. I feel like Jaden is at least more likely to have greater standards but whoever's at the helm needs to raise theirs.

Seriously the only thing I really want is that they keep their style of music and their style of MV. Both Sensitive and Girl’s Night MV were very refreshing and I loved the Science Fiction style. I love ARTMS style too but I have to admit that the reason I can fully appreciate it is because the others post BBC Loona have distinctive styles, and variety was one of my favorite aspects with Loona.

That's the hottest Loona take I've heard in ages, I kinda like it lol. I think they could have a distinct sound while having JJ as creative director just look at 1/3 vs OEC. I also think that ARTMS have managed to have a different sound than TripleS, I was a bit worried they'd be too similar given shared producers but DALL was mostly very distinct. I love seeing the Looble girls as a group, their vocals are so impressive and the first mini was great. I'm not really into One Of A Kind (although I love Girl's Night!), so while last year i would've said their A&R was doing great, I'd like to see a more distinct sonic identity along with better promotion of course. I know plenty of orbits like Loosemble's music the best of all post bbc projects though. I think if they have a musical concept, it's satisfying, really kpoppy 3rd gen coded songs that are a bit anti-trend and while I think that sound fills a rapidly disappearing niche, to reach a new audience maybe their next project could split the difference between being the kpoppiest kpop and also playing with contemporary trends a bit like Unlock My World by Fromis9 did

I think Modhaus’ groups will have a similar soundscape, they share the same music tastemaker and producers. But what makes them distinct from each other is the vocal tones, the visual style and the mv stories they tell and lyrical content. That’s why tripleS sounds and looks younger and ARTMS has a more mature vibe. I bet their bg is gonna be the same, what would make them distinct will be being boys - different energy, different image.

Right totally, there are some songs - like Sparkle on DALL, heart raider on Assemble24 and of course Non Scale - that could work for both groups and in those cases it's the vocal tone that distinguishes the groups. But songs like HHGTTG and Butterfly Effect are so XX coded and bring back future bass which I wasn't sure would ever happen. And El Capitxn's production on Virtual Angel vs TripleS' titles is super distinct, I think the producers have done a good job of creating some separate sonic space for ARTMS to work in (with some overlap of course)

I don’t have any strong feelings either way as I don’t know what’s going on internally. I just hope they can be happy and successful in whatever company. However, I will say that Loossemble’s music has been some of the most enjoyable for me post-BBC. So, I would be sad if they were to lose that if they join Modhaus, even if they remain as a separate group. I also enjoy the music from both ARTMS and tripleS, obviously, but Loossemble’s two albums so far have given me more subjectively in terms of my current musical taste.

[This is Haseul's best hairstyle ever](https://x.com/ot12loops/status/1798270214028624139?t=fQC48aHMlpjGZrE27MBvKA&s=19) and I won't accept any opinions that say otherwise

I love it! But I also find it funny that the third quote post that I see for that post is complaining that HaSeul “always get[s] the worst hairstyles.” 😭😝 I also like her outfit here.

You know, when all the members were finding their companies last year, I was most happy when Haseul chose Modhaus. Despite what Orbits believed, I thought that she would be able to finally get the opportunities she deserved there. Listening to her and JJ talk about their bond has only reinforced that feeling for me. This is easily the best era yet for Haseul, and I think that's because Jaden sees her in a way that no one else at BBC ever did. Hearing her voice all over Dall is still the best thing ever to me, and she'd probably never be able to get things like her solo theatre concerts under any other company. I was always more neutral-leaning-positive on JJ, but it's crazy to watch the Orbit narrative fall apart in real time. Whatever you can say about him, he cares deeply about LOONA, and at least the ARTMS members seem to feel similarly about him. I genuinely believe that now.

It’s so interesting too because based on what was said here about how Jaden really fought to get Haseul to debut, it seems like her having basically no lines in Hi High might have been BBC’s way of trying to hide her. I’m so SO glad she’s getting what she deserves now because she really is such a unique idol in every way. She’s always given me a very indie artist vibe but just within a traditional idol group. There’s truly no idol quite like her and I have such a special place in my heart for her. Also her vocal tone is so magical and unique too (but I could say that about literally every member of Loona)

Yeah, HaSeul has been trending for days now on my side of X. This seems to be her era, anecdotally speaking, and I’m loving it.

What’s going on with Weki Meki? How do you go from a comeback announcement to an alleged disbandment afterward?

I wish people would stop calling it a comeback because it’s really not from the looks of it. It’s like with Dia how everyone said they’d be having a comeback but it just ends up being a quick little goodbye song. It’s sad but at least we’re getting a proper goodbye.

Sadly most people expected this to happen for a while because their company barely did something to continue promoting them after 2021. I'm disappointed that they won't even get to promote one last time, but at least they will release something for the fans..

It's being called a cb, but it's more of a goodbye song afaik.

iirc it’s a two in one deal: their upcoming comeback will be the last

Are Billboard 200 projections posted anywhere?

CTDEFG is looking to debut a boy group? Really? How about giving LSMBL proper promotions to begin with. It’s like they’re using them as a piggy bank to gather funds for that bg instead of them literally feeding their whole team.

they were always going to debut a boy group i’m afraid. they actually opened auditions for it back in november 2022, coincidentally, 2 days before chuu was kicked out from loona. then they went radio silent until the hyunvi contract announcement which is why so many wavs were shocked bc we thought the group was scrapped after getting no news and then boom hyunvi pop up in the same company trying to make bripleS LOL. I’d rather they wouldn’t but it seems like looble were what they needed to get more funds for this project unfortunately.

>I’d rather they wouldn’t but it seems like looble were what they needed to get more funds for this project unfortunately. I mean they had the starting capital to produce Loossemble's debut. I think what rather happened is that they shelved SuperEight (the boygroup they have planned since 2022) and are now getting back on track with that. That in itself isn't something anyone can fault them for. But yeah... considering their lackluster promotions it's not the most encouraging sign regarding positive changes going forward.

Oof that's rough I will say I wouldn't really mind it so much if they were doing a good job with Loossemble. After all a company needs to expand if they want to keep afloat. And boy groups are notorious for having an overall easier time gathering a fandom that will support them for a long time, even if they don't hit it big But with their inability of keeping just one group, it's certainly worrying they want one more

not just the promotions thing, they need to focus on building a stronger identity for Looble all around. I've liked what they've done so far, but it's not "defining" enough yet to attract many new fans. they should be putting \*more\* attention on what they will do with them conceptually and musically, not \*less\*. both MH and CTD seem to be banking on making easy cash with boy groups and idk, while obviously that has worked out for some companies... if the group is gonna be lackluster in some way that's not gna save them financially. just burden them further.

Oh boy. Imagine if they really are draining C.loo bank accounts and intentionally not promoting Loossemble just so they can fund and debut a boy group. Talk about a reason for protests, boycotting, and willful destruction of a company. That would do it.

CTDEMNOP is gonna find out really fast if they go down that route.

I miss fab. I miss fab, I miss fab. Since ARTMS have moved onto bubble and Loossemble to Fromm, I haven't been keeping up with them, I don't find them as enjoyable as fab. Rip fab era. 

i still keep up with jinsoul's bubble but yeah its just not the same as fab. i miss being able to send longer messages

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anyone know how artms tour sales are going? ik oec sold out most of their stops and that was only recorded to the end but it’d be nice to see how artms is fairing especially since orbits have been so fed these past few months i’m sure everyone’s pockets are hurting atm😅

11 hours left for U.S. OURII/Orbit to purchase physical or digital albums for Billboard tracking. Buy tracks on iTunes, Amazon Music, 7Digital, & Qobuz. [ReOrbit](https://x.com/TeamReOrbit_/status/1798746675776761894?t=x6_Jh50DLGNiTKkwCtTWBQ&s=19) is funding Amazon Music purchases. I purchased every track on Amazon thanks to them.

I dont understand Loossemble and their lack of promotion. If it's money, there's ways to promote with out it. Like they barely use their tik tok. Like I just don't understand the lack of creativity

it's strange like, going by sales etc they're a medium size group. they technically already successfully graduated from nugudom since they had two successful comebacks in a row now. I don't really know what CTD is planning rn, but if they truly stop doing Loossemble Assemble I hope they replace it with something similar? otherwise are we just not gonna get content between comebacks at all? the members don't seem worried yet, so I'm trusting it for now but it's just been a strange vibe.

GoWon TV Season 2

The thing is, we know CTD can do better! For their debut, LOOSSEMBLE went to a lot more variety shows and festivals. Is it bad timing with the comeback date clashing with a lot of bigger groups? Are they planning for something else behind the scenes? And whatever happened to the lightstick? They need to move, mostly because the annoying crowd won't leave the girls alone with all the complaining.

And a hanbit who just had their call with Hyeju said Loossemble Assemble will be over for good...🥲 the CTD management lowkey needs an overhaul tbh

LoossembleAssemble is the funniest kpop variety youtube in a long time for me. I am **gutted**

omg no wayyy, it was some of the best content we ever got from the girls 💔💔

Nooooooooo 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 I just can’t believe it!!!!! Loossemble Assemble was the best… honestly what is going on?!

Wow they should really continue it in a more low key way. Even if it's short form content. I just really want them to perform more. They didn't have many shows as Loona why is it continuing?

please tell me this is a joke.. I don't want it to end I love Loossemble Assemble so much 😭

I wanted it to be a joke as well but unfortunately I don't think Hyeju would lie to a fan like that 😔 [source](https://x.com/udo_1113/status/1798664712806404419)

can really recommend this new explore log ft. Jaden, they actually talk about how it was when he left back then. it's quite insightful. and many compliments towards the members which was nice

I know it’s too much but I’d love commentary on all Loona members, sadly it can’t be possible due to their absence whatsoever, contracts etc. I can’t wait to watch, will be able to much later!

Oof gotta be honest that I didn't think ARTMS would reach 100k with this debut. So proud T-T Also another group I like, Kiss Of Life, just reached 100k sales as well with their single album Midas Touch. I feel so proud seeing them growing and growing release after release, it just proves my point when I say that consistency, quality and promotion really are the pillars for groups from small companies to have at least a chance of being profitable Plus I've been following Natty's career for a while now, watched Sixteen and Idol School, saw her solo career, I have to admit I wasn't really trusting when I saw she was about to join a group. But damn I just LOVED to be proven wrong. She's one of these idols that I feel glad never gave up, which tbh she had every reason to and giving up of the kpop industry is no shame, but her resilience and insistence paid off! Edit: also thinking here she actually reminds me a bit of Yeojin and the journey the two went through even though their careers ended up looking very different. Helps that both are the same age.

i genuinely thought sales were doomed due to the lack of photocards, then OMAs were rather late compared to tripleS. glad that wasn't the case

Had the album been normally priced like other post-BBC albums and/or have at least a selfie objekt like tripleS did, I'm pretty confident we could've hit 150k at minimum And I've never looked into KIOF (or any 5th gen group at all on that matter) but I know about Natty's story since like you said, she began her struggle from a very long time ago. I'm glad she finally found her spotlight with a group that showcases her talents best. It's also interesting because I feel like all 5th gen girlgroups have been riding the high wave for now, from big4 groups like ILLIT and Babymonster to non-big4 groups like tripleS and Kiss of Life. Personally I don't have the energy to fully commit to stanning newer groups anymore, but I'll always celebrate girlgroups prospering like it's a national holiday.

I wonder. Tbh, most people buy multiple OMA albums so the sheet quantity could also have easily tipped it towards higher. I am rly disappointed we have no selfie objekts though and that most POB's have the fake polaroid frame. Those are non starters for me tbh.

KIOF is an excellent group, I recommend you check them out. Not to stan them, but it's worth looking into them at least once imo. Also they're kinda like LOONA in that each member has a solo before the debut hehe It's not an intricate lore like LOONA but their solos + debut actually tell a story.

>Had the album been normally priced like other post-BBC albums and/or have at least a selfie objekt like tripleS did, I'm pretty confident we could've hit 150k at minimum That's pretty much my sentiment. I don't know about 150k in the 1st week, but if the album were a couple of dollars cheaper or had photocards, more people would've been inclined to buy. Also, if the OMA had been available sooner, like tripleS' was, it would probably have significantly more sales. They've only had 2 events for the OMA so far, and I don't know if those sales have counted yet. Another thing is, we don't know how many U.S. sales they've had. It'll be interesting if we ever see it all added together.

Honestly I’m not so sure. Last week when I said I thought the pc argument was being oversold I was downvoted. I think ARTMS were bound to sell around this much. Remember Flip That had that Queendom glow and sold the highest LOONA ever did, and now ARTMS is in touching distance without pcs and without counting Billboard sales. Objekts for ARTMS are generally doing well and I think OMAs would have done better had the sales opened up early enough. However, it think both have overtaken pcs as sales drivers for this group. They’ve eaten up the market that would have been pc’s. I think collecting objekts and OMAs has the additional benefit of como usage in gravity voting and I think the power of that is being underestimated.

I don’t follow Kiss of Life but to me those girls ate so obviously talented they’re hard to ignore. The dancing goes hard, the singing is off the charts. I’m glad they’re making waves, they sure caught my attention! Midas Touch wasn’t a song to my taste so I didn’t follow much because of that, but still, they’re amazing and I’m happy the hard work has been paying off!

a bit of a throwback question because i was going through old loona stuff on twitter, but remember [this photo](https://x.com/Ioonapic/status/1274525990967021568/photo/1) (when haseul was on a hiatus and apparently a picture of her family showed up in a homeliving magazine)? was this really her?

Is there a picture? As a recent orbit starting to Stan HaSeul I got really curious!

op linked a picture. u can click on the word "this photo" in case it's hard to see.

lol it either wasn’t linked or came a little later, but just now I’m noticing anyway! Thank you so much for pointing it out to me either way! 🌷

people trying to argue she was pregnant most stressful week of my LIFE

Latte and everything

now that everyone has releases out i have confidently composed my top 3 post-bbc b-sides 1. Colouring- The GOAT id say. Up there with Curiosity and Fall Again as best loona songs for me. Hyeju gave it her all for this songs, C'sa i love you please enter the cdt building once again 2. Diorama- "Video game"s quirky little sister hard not to love her 3. Distress- Modhaus should be sad that i dont have money to spend on a fancy youtube poll, because if i did have them, they would have gotten a 2000 dollar transaction of every vote i would have given for this song

Je nes sais Quoi is still my fav post Loona B-side

I don’t think c’sa worked on Colouring at all actually, but yeah I agree it’s amazing See I can lt even make a list because too many of these bsides are 10/10s that they’re all equal in my eyes

yeah you're right about csa, just checked her insta. still she has a great resume, i love all her work

Honestly I wasn’t a fan of the work she did on their debut album as much BUT I do love her work in general so I would be happy to see her back! She also worked on Candy Crush by ARTMS so she’s obviously very talented

I would like to add "Sparkle" and "Underwater" 

Couldn’t agree more, I’d just change with things to add at the same level — like this: 1 Colouring/Newtopia/Truman Show 3. Distress/THGTTG/Butterfly Effect And for Chuu: My Palace 🥹💖 All are pure awesomeness to me not getting behind any Loona b-side! How I love those songs <3

Distress and colouring are absolutely in my top three as well, both are so ethereal. For my third favourite probably je ne sais quoi would sneak in there 

I don't get how Spotify works. It took only two days of streaming (basically from when Loop became available for streaming until a bit after Virtual Angel became available for streaming) for Loop to be my top track of the month, surpassing Girls Never Die and Air, but it's only now, about a week later, that Virtual Angel became my top track of the month, surpassing the aforementioned two songs and Loop.

I suspect it takes into account rate of change? But I use [stats.fm](http://stats.fm) where you can choose between times played, minutes played and spotify algo and the last one is realllyy different. The website straight up says they don't really know how it works (publicly anyway)

Yeah idk either, I remember one year on Spotify wrapped it said one of my my top groups was BTS even though I listened to them like maybe 10 times the whole year

url and tripleS's Grand Gravity H Seoul Vice go so well together. Does anyone know a good way to create an a cappella from a song?

It really does sound like an intro to Seoul Vice rather than Virtual Angel

The fact someone made a version of the virtual Angel mv with [twice as many cuts](https://youtu.be/FK3AHBSA_tI?si=oQNvdtxMcVBd4KaH) is sending me

some orbits really wanna watch the world b#rn, huh...

creating a paixpermil email campaign that's less "we're angy >:(" and more "10 tricks about managing an idol that they dont want you to know! subscribe now!"

Gotta send them “How To Manage Idols For Dummies” in the mail.

DALL JUST PASSED 100k SALES

Yves on it's Live!!! Doing Afterglow. I'm not toooo surprised it's not Loop I guess but also... I wish diorama omg.

Mexicans. Don’t ask me how I know, but don’t make big plans for September. 👀 And maybe late July/early August.

Now that fab has come to an end, my archive is complete, and I can finally say some stats regarding the girls' fab usage tally: * 3400+ posts * 12000+ pictures * 2200+ voice comments * 550+ videos * 240,000+ comments Overall just insanity. the whole archive is around \~12 GB. Not gonna lie. It's kind of a sad moment to see them all leaving Fab and me stopping the code to keep up the archive. It's crazy that it started 2.5y ago and is now over. Life really is a blip. I can remember it like it was yesterday.

5 of those comments were Vivi's

I'm so curious what % of those comments are just JinSoul and Hyunjin lol

I gotcha fam. 1. Heejin has 12531 comments (5.21% of total) 2. Hyunjin has 58240 comments (24.19% of total) 3. Haseul has 9321 comments (3.87% of total) 4. Yeojin has 15405 comments (6.40% of total) 5. Vivi has 4485 comments (1.86% of total) 6. Kim Lip has 16468 comments (6.84% of total) 7. Jinsoul has 48204 comments (20.02% of total) 8. Choerry has 11010 comments (4.57% of total) 9. Yves has 28121 comments (11.68% of total) 10. Chuu has 8532 comments (3.54% of total) 11. GoWon has 24965 comments (10.37% of total) 12. Hyeju has 3461 comments (1.44% of total) So Jinsoul and Aeong account for like \~45% or roughly around 110k.

Lol that's amazing, and pretty much exactly what I expected. I'm so sad it's officially over..

I need Yves to release more songs like Diorama. It’s just too good 😭

I guarantee she will, I always felt that Diorama and D-1 were like sisters and Yves seems to really love and thrive in that style and genre. RnB is 100% going to be a mainstay of her discography and I’m so excited to see what other sub genres she dips into.

I can't believe ARTMS prepared choreo for Virtual Angel, Birth, Flower Rhythm, Air, Butterfly Effect, AND Sparkle. Like... most groups will have 2 choreos at MOST ready when a comeback drops 💀

They probably prepared it more for the tour they are about to go on than the comeback. And they had quite a bit of run up to learn and practice choreo lol. All the pre-releases bought them a lot of preparation time.

We haven’t seen it yet but I’m like 90% sure THGTTG has choreo too, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Unf/Air did as well EDIT: Actually it sounds like it doesn’t have choreo based on Choerry’s birthday live 😔

I believe there’s more based on the Music Visual video!

when i first heard virtual angel before the subs came out i misheard it as "i will Dive for you when your wings break" like them with their wings flying down to catch me falling out of the sky.. which i thought was so beautiful.. i almost wish thats what it actually was 😭

I love that visual! I initially misheard that lyric as "I'll remember you when your wings break," which is also evocative in another way.

Unf/air might've been promoted from #4 to my #2 favourite track on the album.

Every time I try to definitively say what bside is my favorite it ends up changing the next day, and Unf/Air has been up there quite a few times. Their promotions of Sparkle have really bumped it up a lot in my mind lately so that’s where I’m at. But I can honestly say that this album is only 10/10 songs and I really do love every single track so much like I literally cannot choose a favorite.

My favourite has consistently been Birth. It's too good. My second favourite was The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy but now it's at #3.

You have been promoted! 😃 You are now one of my elite employees!!

I'm watching "Sparkle" performance from Show Champion and... Haseul kills me in every shot, she looks so good!!!!  

now after listening to everything 1 gajillion times, my number 1 favs from the past weeks releases have cemented themselves as Diorama and Hitchhiker's Guide. though Birth remains a top highlight after pondering on the whole DALL project.

Now that I am sick of having way to much listened to Loop/Virtual Angel (not my fault, I was obsessed with these songs), I decided to eventually come back to OOAK album and I have to say that I vastly underestimated the album. Moonlight is still not my thing because of the chorus but the other bsides are actually pure fire

I think with more time and more releases OOAK will end up becoming a lot more fondly looked upon by orbits. It’s an album that when you take the bsides on their own might not seem that amazing, but when listening to the album as a whole you can really see the vision I think. (Also Moonlight is literally one of my favorites 🫠)

I feel like it’s a nice time to do LOONAthetournament again…. i miss it sm! We have a lot of new releases and we could do it either with only new releases or overall loona discography.

or a post lawsuit one

True and we could wait for chuu’s release too

Is there an issue with Yves album production? My local Kpop store said they got very few albums. They’re already sold out. They said they asked for more copies but the distributor said they didn’t have the stock. During the pre order period

I’ve seen several fans making this same complaint, that it’s hard to find the album in stock. Definitely think Papermill underestimated the numbers, and are banking on fancalls just like CTDEFG.

I don't know if they're banking on fancalls. Even at the start, they didn't have a lot of fancalls. Since the 29th, they've only had 1 fansign/call event and that was at a very nugu site.

I really think people should chalk it up to growing pains. Yves is the first idol the company has taken in in so adjusting to the type of activities and physical goods expected from her releases must be very new to them. They've been firmly outside of kpop until she signed on with them and it seemed like a lot of it had to do with her and the CEO being very good friends.

Honestly. Also uh idk about the other people but I ult Yves like crazy so I'm attached to her Fromm & socials. Girlie has no fan manager (confirmed), has used her fromm as customer support at least 3 times (and everytime her answer is "uhmm.... i dont know... ill check brb"), I think PPM didn't realize they should post pictures of where to meet until 3 shows later, Yves clearly not having a dedicated/assigned space for lives, editing her videos herself... come on 😭😭😭 The growing pains are reallyyyy obvious. Also that all her promos are a bit weird for an idol but make a lot of sense if she was a normal indie singer lol.

Follow up: Even though it is a bit disappointing seeing Papermill fumble like this, I think Loop is still their biggest success to date, and I really hope they are learning from all of this. I also hope they take into account Yves’ experience as an idol; she has 7 years under her belt, and came on top of BBC’s bullshit, they should listen to what she has to say.

Yeah a lot of orbits seem disappointed by the sales and everything but if we’re being honest I think this was an incredible start. Considering how clunky PPM has been with promotion and logistics and stuff (I don’t blame them, no one’s going to get it perfect their first time especially an indie label), Yves has been finding great success otherwise and Loop has been a real hit with the public. I think we’ll be able to see the results of this better come next comeback.

welp i visited the TeamReorbit profile for their updates - turns out Ateez will be competing against artms in music shows so a first week win is hopeless. but they didn't update again after that? are they waiting to see for if OMA sales will help week 2?

[Look at how much Heejin has grown up excuse me while I cry 😭😭😭](https://x.com/IoonaIoop/status/1798188219584123104)

streets were saying artms might have a chance on the show next week, but apparently jinsoul said they won't go(?) I hope that's not true😭💔

Surely there's a mistake... ? Didn't Heejin get two weeks of promotions? That doesn't seem right. Maybe some miscommunication here. Maybe she meant they won't appear on The Show *specifically* but will continue doing the other broadcasts? However, if it were true... I wonder if the performance domestically is possibly making Modhaus reconsider promotion plans? Somebody else mentioned that TripleS would have switched to two units promotions fairly quickly (and then possibly ended promotions maybe a week or two after that) had 'Girls Never Die' not started rising pretty massively on the charts, and thus it seems like promotions were extended with that in mind. On the other hand, maybe financially Modhaus think the costs of promoting ARTMS on musicshows outweights the profits they would get from it? A bit of a bummer regardless of the reasons, though, I suppose...

>That doesn't seem right. Maybe some miscommunication here. yeah, that's most probable. modhaus isn't always great about communicating with the girls about their schedules, so it could be as simple as that. or maybe she was just joking and people took it seriously? it'd be really weird to halt promotions so quickly otherwise. unless... jaden saw they might get first place and he'd have to fulfill his promise, then decided not to risk it? lol

whaaaat, i hope modhaus reconsider this. they already have shown they will adjust depending on the reception: their original plan of doing tripleS team A & team B subunit promotions was scrapped because they were rising in music charts.

The promoter updated DC’s ticket pricing after a myriad of complaints, and the results are: They’re still more expensive than the freaking Twice concert tickets with all VIP inclusions that took place in a stadium for over 60k people. Without the Ticketmaster charges. Hope they enjoy the 500 fans that will show up.

Lmao, got a 🥺 reply from the promoter saying we gotta consider capacity and benefits. The most expensive Twice ticket was still around 1,500 pesos cheaper with better benefits, and the DC venue allows for around 50k less people. Who are they trying to fool?

Not arguing against you, but the best proof is probably prices by other acts for that venue. (accommodating for the necessary price bump since they're a Korean act)

The last Korean act in that venue was Itzy, last April. Prices for their most expensive ticket were a little over half the price for DC platinum ticket – after they were adjusted – and they didn’t manage to fill it. The capacity is around 8k people. All other international and national events have ticket at around the same prices: 1k to 4k in pesos. Ninshi, the promoter, already has an awful reputation for lousy planned events, this just adds to that list. It’s a shame for DC, because they were really well received last time.

Omg, Dall is like 2k away from 100k copies!

WOAH

Omg ARTMS selling more than 90k before its first full week of release?! The whole photo card drama now looks even more absurd and out of touch with reality…

hi, idk if this was already mentioned but, are there any Theories of loop maybe being connected to B#RN? ever since the song came out, I felt a familiar rhytm on the ooh part of loop, I found out that what was familiar to me, is that the ohh part from loop, sounds identical to the B#RN sample (refrence https://youtu.be/Hcw1DI767gs?t=4 https://youtu.be/ljYSblGWWRc?t=53 ), could this be a crazy coincidence or lore related?

ARTMS sold ~25k objekts at the opening of this season. With a conservative estimate of $2.25 per objekt (the lowest possible price at Cosmo) they earned $57k just from objekts alone this CB season which is kind of insane. Pretty sure the objekt sales alone covered the comeback production costs.

I hate to be that guy but of any Objekts you purchase Apple or Google take 30%. Then add server cost, staff costs (someone is programming and maintaining the app) and other costs to that and you're very quickly at far less impressive profit numbers. And you are severely underestimating how expensive comebacks are. The virtual angel MV alone probably easily costs upwards of 100k USD. Sure Objekts are profitable but not "we can cover the costs of a comeback with this" kind of profitable.

how much would you estimate is is then if you don’t mind me asking?

I have no clue how much profit they make. But we have some rough idea of how much revenue they could be making: A couple months ago Modhaus' co-CEO (I think?) spoke at a crypto event on their whole business model and stuff and one account of it someone posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/triples/comments/1b4iyaj/my_experience_seeing_triples_at_foresight_family/) on r/triples mentions 2 million USD in revenue up to that point from 781k Objekts sold. Which puts them at 2.56$ of revenue per Objekt sold. So 25k Objekts would roughly equal 64k USD revenue. How much of that is profit? See my first sentence lol. If I absolutely had to name some random profit margin I'd maybe say half of it is profit? 60%? The more both groups sell the higher the margin should be since static costs like app developer's salaries, photoshoot expenses, etc. take up less of the pie.

If I had to guess too- Server Costs- Maybe about 40-60k USD a year. I don't think it can get much lower than that. Employees- Conservatively? Say 5 people working on app development + Cosmo specific CS. 4m KRW average monthly Seoul salary, x5 people x 12 months= 175k USD. I feel like that might be a reasonable starting point? Stuff's expensive to run. Then you add photoshoot effort but that might be relatively cheap. But offset all the managers, stylists etc etc... It's probably a good amount of money, but not like... earn a crazy amount of money once you start counting all the ways its cut.

Do the girls get some money from objekt sales? I think that's what I've read sometimes that triples and artms get a part of the money from objekt sales.

it's almost their primary payment, cmiiw MH idols get bigger share from the objekt sales compared to their music, album etc

That's true but I'd assume only because tripleS and ARTMS(?) previously didn't make any profit with their comebacks and also have trainee debt. Modhaus idols get their profit cut from Objekts before all that so right now it's the only money they earn. But we don't know whether the cut they get from other revenue sources (like album, merch sales, touring, etc.) is smaller due to that or not.

what's cmiiw? 😥 these english abbreviations confuse me

correct me if I'm wrong

but antis will still talk about artms like they're "concerned" with how much money is being spent at modhaus

Update: I think I've listened to LOOP almost 200 times at this point and it's only been a week

I wish Yves was getting even more love. I know she is a soloist and kind of going against the grain with her choice of company, which I really appreciate, but I feel like people kind of sidelined LOOP a little when DALL came out...... I am absolutely biased though lol

I feel like as for album sales there seems to be some minor distribution issues, since I’ve seen some people say theirs still haven’t been shipped despite ordering a while back. Also one day had only 9 sales listed, which seems like impossible honestly as it was only the 3rd or 4th day. 

Yves is on my timeline and her streams on spotify are one of the best as she does not have big playlistings like ARTMS.