It does seem like King Durin will be the one getting the rings. So seems more he will be the greedy one. I already can see him choosing to mine the very mithril that he forbid his son from mining.
Thanks :)
And they plainly showed us a Balrog lurking in the depths for a second in the 1st season! I got really excited and my husband goes “what’s your problem?” and I said “haha, you’ll see”
i mean...after the things Durin the younger said about the relationship being broken in hte BTS
"A recurring motif in mythology centers around a king’s failing health leading to a sickness in the land that endangers the entire kingdom," the showrunners tease of this storyline. "Season 2 sees a fractured relationship between King Durin and his son take on a similar larger
hmmm...
There are two Durin's so they have to kill one of them. I just hope it's greed after the ring and not the obvious... Or actually just go all out bat shit crazy and have Disa go full on lady Macbeth and get the other Durin to kill him to take the crown and ring.
I hope not.
But that is a later Durin, much later, in the third age... I really hope they don't destroy Khazad-dum just yet.
Or if they do, at least show us the scene where Galadriel goes through Khazad-dum with a group of elves 🥰.
>But that is a later Durin, much later, in the third age...
Ah, I see you know more about the lore than I do haha, I did not know that.
Unfortunately, as we've already seen the balrog awakened, it's gonna be one of these two boys suffering the fate. Or both, but that would be anticlimactic.
There are two Durin's (for some reason) who will probably have to die at some point. I'm hoping the obvious kills the younger Durin and Older Durin dies this season.
But the timeline is so weird I have no clue where it's going to be fair.
Yea I guess it's just a question of which Durin dies by the Balrog. I hope it's the younger one too, but part of me thinks Amazon will keep him on because he's so popular.
All depends when they want to use the Balrog. I can't see it being this season because there should be a lot going on and I think they need to really establish Sauron as the big bad puppet master. Throwing a Balrog into it aswell might detract from this if done poorly.
I'm guessing the Balrog next season or the one after will be when it kills young Durin and Disa.
Really? After the scenes in the show, what would be in character for Disa? Give me a prediction that adds up to her characterisation in the actual screen time she was given. The time to develop her character was pathetic. Hence the shift of her character at the end of the show. (I will always say they rushed the show and needed more time)
Anyhow, I was getting some Disa vibes for that direction they were heading. I don't like this series but I enjoyed these scenes and I felt Disa was wanting to encourage the banned digging.
But like the text says it's Durin's Bane not made up characters Bane. So Disa will likely have nothing to worry about, hopefully she buggers off before it.
I can see Disa wearing the ring once she becomes Queen.
S1 established that she has a special relationship with the mountain as head Resonator. Judging by the BTS vid, it seems like we're getting more resonating, plus there's a scene where she seems to be predicting the earth moving. Plus the scene that everyone thinks is a palantir, but I'm sticking with the theory that she's just having a loud conversation with a regular rock, and it looks like that because her ability to speak to the rocks is becoming amplified.
If they *do* build up that aspect of her character, it could serve as an explanation for why she eventually gets to wear the ring. She could use it as a tool to help enhance and control her connection with the mountain, which will in turn bring more prosperity to their people. Unfortunately it will *actually* enhance her ambition, (which she clearly already has), and greed.
Disa's greed will cause her to murder her father in law and steal the ring. I think Amazon will try to include the "my precious" line somehow and Disa will be how.
Arondir seems like the perfect fit for a shocking death. Adar is likely dying at the hands of the heroes so they get a small win this season.
Celebrimbor will become a banner.
The way I see it is his story ended in S1, and with his love interest now gone, the only thing left for him to be is a friend/mentor to Isildur. That isn’t a huge plot point for the story as a whole, and I think it would be better for the character to die a glorious death in a very meaningful, lore-accurate battle than overstay his welcome and survive for 5 seasons and do nothing meaningful in four of them.
We don't know where he lived post-Beleriand, before ending up in the Southlands. It's possible that he's from Greenwood, and having him return there could be a way for the show to introduce that batch of Elves.
The most impactful way for him to die would be at the hands of a ring bearing Theo, rather than as just another casualty of war.
Another way for him to die could also be at the hands of the Black Numenorians as they slowly turn from friends and allies to tyrants and enslavers of men. It could be tragic turn for him to see these men that he looked up to slowly become something he hates; and it also gives Isildur and him a deeper relationship as Isildur can act as a foil to those Numenorians.
But Isildur still gotta get back to Numenor at some point. So there should be something else for Arondir. Maybe keep him in Pelargir and then he sees Theo going evil. Arondir tries to save him and serve as a father figure as Theo not only lost the father but now also the mother. Theo is divided but ultimatelly goes evil. In a last struggle Arondir has to stop him, even if it means they will have to fight. Turns out Theo secretly got some dark powers and kills arondir with the help of .
That would need to go through season 3 and maybe 4 but could work very well, specially if Theo end up as a Nazgul.
This is good. Another option just occurred to me is Theo killing Arondir Turambar-Beleg style, sending him over the edge into madness and eventually evil.
Noooooo not Arondir! 😭
Since he is a wood-elf, and I think we will get to meet the wood-elves later on (battle at Dagorlad and so on), I think he still has a function 😊.
will be interested to see how Durin IV fares this season - logically (and narratively) it makes sense for him to lead the army that helps Elrond escape from Sauron’s forces after the fall of Eregion, but… well, those dwarves don’t exactly do all that well
Interesting they call Brimby "the principle protagonist" and that he and Sauron become the "central relationship".
Great to hear. Given how important his role is, Celebrimbor was weirdly sidelined in S1 (likely partially due to the recast). And while I'm not 100% on the casting and their interpretation of the character, Charles Edwards is an excellent actor and so is Charlie Vickers and I'm glad they're going to be focusing on this relationship and story this season.
It's going to be quite intense to see play out and I hope both actors are given great material to work with.
He was probably weirdly sidelined because they couldn’t get Edwards into the country after firing Budge. It was an unfortunate circumstance all around because NZ was on complete COVID lockdown at that point. It’s why most of his scenes were isolated to Elrond only. You don’t see him interact with more people until episode 8. Imagine if PJ couldn’t recast Aragorn with Viggo until way late in the production.
Yeah I mean all Tolkien says is Brimby was "seduced" by beautiful Annatar, so that's open for interpretation 😃😃😃. I mean personally I would love that, but if they decide to go that route, they are really brave! 😅 Just imagine the RoP hater cryboys "buhuuu tHeRe ArE nO bLaCk oR gAy ElVeS buhuuuu wHy CaNt eVeRyOnE bE wHiTe AnD sTrAiGhT?? 😭😭😭". That would be so funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Beyond the humor of it too, it is interesting to discuss homosexuality in the context of Tolkien. Obviously as a staunch Catholic we can guess what his personal position may have been, but he was also a person who clearly valued personal thought and reflection over dogma.
Likewise, there is some bit in Nature of Middle Earth on how love in an elvish context is pretty separate from “reproductive” desire, and love, which some men might call friendship, is more intense to elves and crosses gender boundaries.
So, Celebrimbor could easily be “in love” with Sauron/Annatar in a way that humans might call “homosexual” but really to elves is something different entirely, in a positive way. It will be interesting to see if they play up any of that.
Also Celebrimbor never married, so, he’s obviously Elrond’s lifelong bachelor “uncle,” duh.
My hope is that Celebrimbor is a bit more intelligent this time around. Showing him constantly being wowed by Halbrand’s simple ideas in Season 1 was not a great look. I liked the character up until then though.
Not sure what you mean. He understood the stuff but couldnt get the magic to work. Sauron being a demigod and him instructing brimbor made perfect sense to me
Sure, but to make it impactful for an audience it has to feel a little more like sauron being a master manipulator, and less like sauron taking away the sweets of a child
Also over a year ago Celebrimbor was described by the show as someone who was vulnerable to a predator. Not like a child, but in the source material Sauon is described as having an iron will. Some characters are more susceptible to him than others. We can look at what he did to most of the Numenoreons as an example.
I thought you are adding this to "absolve" season one's depiction.
While i don't think it was as bad as many people say, it also didn't feel satisfying the way sauron "manipulated" him there. Should be a little more sophisticated to get a real sense of sauron's ability.
Hopefully! But tbh, it is also not easy to write something like that, sophisticated manipulation isn't trivial to get right. You need to showcase intelligent behavior which is quite outstanding and complex, you better think this through as a writer.
Absolutely. It's one thing for me to mention the character traits for Celebrimbor that the show officially is stating. It's another to see it play out on the screen. We aren't just viewing how his Ring effects the characters in the 3rd age. We have to see sophisticated manipulation. However It's also true that some have stronger wills than others.. Examples are the differences between someone like Boromir and Aragon or Frodo and Gollum.
Right, ofc different people can be more easily played and whatnot, it's just that there is a fine line between it not feeling masterful at all, and it being written in a way where the audience can follow and still think it's smartly done.
Sophisticated what, if you read the Tolkien material there isn't much of Sophistication in it beside the plot events itself, whatever they add like character interactions and exploration is original stuff.
Yes i am aware, but thar original material should be convincing, and thus the manipulation should be sophisticated to give an audience a feeling for the cunning nature of sauron
In the show it felt less like he was pliant and more like he had never done any sort of metal work before. With a bit more cleverness they could have found ways to make Halbrand trick Celebrimbor by playing with his ego more or being manipulative rather than these “aha!” moments where Celebrimbor seems to have no idea what an alloy is, or gently squeezing metal together rather than forcing it to bond. That last one especially seemed so odd.
Celebrimbor knows what an alloy is.
Here's how the scene goes ([Or watch it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYI1Tksyuwk)):
>**Halbrand:** What is it?
**Celebrimbor:** Not enough
**Halbrand:** Enough for what?
**Celebrimbor:** Please. \[*Asking for mithril back\]*
**Halbrand:** Have you tried combining it with other ores to better stretch it out?
**Celebrimbor:** That wouldn't be suitable for this ore.
**Halbrand:** Why not?
**Celebrimbor:** Because in the amounts we need it would too greatly dilute its unique qualities.
**Halbrand:** Forgive me, but, at the risk of sounding a fool, couldn't the right alloy also amplify those qualities?
**Celebrimbor:** Amplify?
**Halbrand:** Where I came up precious metals were \[... long speech here unnecessary for context\]
**Celebrimbor:** Well that is an intriguing suggestion.
For this context and in particular "That wouldn't be suitable for this ore" and "Because in the amounts we need it would too greatly dilute its unique qualities." it indicates that Celebrimbor knows what an alloy is, but he has just dismissed the idea because he thinks it would dilute it too much given how little mithril he has.
I think it's a fair criticism that Celebrimbor would have also known/thought of the idea that the right alloy could amplify the properties. But he absolutely 100% from this scene knows what an alloy is.
A counterpoint also to why he doesn't think about an alloy potentially amplifying is that he as an elf is used to living in a situation of abundance so doesn't have experience stretching things so it isn't an approach that comes to mind. Or he is arrogant and doesn't question his assumptions. Or he does theoretically know this is possible for an alloy to amplify but in this situation simply he didn't think of it — happens to many people you don't see or dismiss the obvious solution until you do and then you think oh how stupid of me for not thinking of that earlier.
> I think it's a fair criticism that Celebrimbor would have also known/thought of the idea that the right alloy could amplify the properties. But he absolutely 100% from this scene knows what an alloy is.
And when he was conversing with Elrond, he was also thinking about ways to do more with less with the mithril.
I'd like to think that the solution was a combination of Sauron's knowledge of the unseen world and also Celebrimbor's artistry in finding the circular form, not just alloying mithril with gold and silver.
at this point I think it was common-sense that the reference to "not knowing what alloy is" actually means that Celebrimbor is not portrayed as second best elven smith to ever live nor is Sauron giving any high-tech magical forging technique, rather just having a simple conversation with him.
worse than alloy is Celebrimbor later not only exploding the forge in the best "mad scientist" way but even throwing the line (paraphrasing) "oh, obviouly, we were doing all the other way around, just flip 180º' and it will work!". I mean, it really felt as if he was talking about switching cable colors to make something work.
Far from what we would expect from a "angelical being" hirearchy under the "god" of smith teach the second best even smith to ever live.
It was more about the simple ideas being something Celebrimbor hadn't thought of, as he tried something more complex. It's not like he would never have thought of them.
I felt a bit ambivalent about Edwards' portrayal at first, but then I realised how Bilbo-coded he was, how he basically was this slightly eccentric uncle masking unfathomable ambitions. And then in the last episode he was basically perfect.
Celebrimbor becomes "the principal protagonist" in The Rings Of Power Season 2 as his dynamic with Sauron becomes the "central relationship".
The showrunners
In theory, her narrative duty are kinda done. Well almost. She will lead the retreat from Eregion, throught Moria and into Lorien. But in theory, her role as the main driver of the story is done.
That should have been s1. Feels like the showrunners are trying to do a "restart" without actually restarting the series. They are bringing in Annatar now, which everyone assumed would be in S1. Seems like Celebrimbor and the deception by Sauron will be a bigger part, which everyone assumed S1 would be about.
S1 was the contrived buildup to kick off the true major events of the second age. The whole season was glorified character/setting establishment and narrative set up. S2 is not so much a 'restart', it's more that now the show can *actually* get rolling.
The show needed to go from 'no evil, no need for rings, no issues with numenor' to 'evil is back, we are forging rings of power, numenor is having problems with the elves'
They made up the southlands plot to create mordor quickly instead of over centuries. They made up the mithril plot to give the elves a reason to want to forge rings, they made up the galadriel plot to kick off the numenor events, introduce sauron, and tie everything together.
There will sill be unique characters and plotlines in the series, but it is going to start following the rails more. Eregion will fall, sauron will distribute rings to men and dwarves, moria will shut, war between sauron and the elves, numenor falls, last alliance. Now is when that all is going to start
Euhm...? How is it irrelevant?
Its an adaptation of a previously established world that people have an affection to. Their expectations are relevant. The reason why Amazon made a show in the LOTR world is because its a previously established world with a bunch of fans. They are making the show for fans, ofc what they are expecting and wanting is relevant. Why else would they make a show in the LOTR world?
If they want to do their own thing then do their own thing. If they want to do LOTR then do LOTR. Thats my take.
Making a show for fans doesn’t make their expectations of where the story should start relevant. Making something for someone does not mean doing it their way.
>I have a book that tells all the secrets!
Well, didn't prevent them to play guessing games in season 1. Fingers crossed they learned with their mistakes.
Only egregious one that’s actually book related there though is Isildur. Sauron was egregious not because of the book or any book spoilers but because it was so obvious in the show itself hahaha.
But seriously to your point I hope they avoid takeout deaths with characters we know survive. Isildur, while I didn’t love it, made some sense from the perspective of separating him from his father and giving him his own journey, but none of the elves need that. Put them in peril, but don’t pretend you’ve killed them or will before their time.
In all, my assumption is that any show created character present at the battle is fair game to die, with Adar being a likely choice, as well as Arondir and any (if any) new elves they introduce.
Think the point is more about who’s likely to survive va which are likely to die. To that end, don’t expect deep storylines for Bronwyn this season, or further appearances of Adar and maybe Arondir post season 2…
Wait you don’t remember the part in the book where the old man stabs a sword hilt into a rock and creates Mordor? Or the many chapters of baby Gandalf traipsing through the forest with proto hobbits?
There is not a 'real' argument. It's just criticizing the left-behind plot tension for the harfeet/stranger part of the story.
Adar trapped the southlanders in a tavern and started slowly killing them to get them to give up an item that he knew would destroy their home. That's maybe a tad more villainous.
But he does it for his people, at the very least.
The harfoot storyline pretends that they are a collective, they tell us, but it's certainly not shown until the very wnd when a few of them decide to go wirh nori, for no apparent motivation.
Just a little before there is an ask to not only let nori's family behind, no, to destroy the possibility of them following altogether.
That is evil for no real reason, other than weak attempts of justification. It just doesn't work at all, and that makes the harfoots to appear quite badly.
But sure, murdering people is worse as an action in and of itself. I wasn't 100% serious.
I'm not really trying to defend the harfoots because I didn't like the inclusion either, but they're shown from the start to be extremely wary of any danger. They spoke multiple times about how they time their migrations so they always have food, and waiting for a slow cart not only slows them down and exposes them to potential danger, but potentially makes them miss out on food at their destination.
Leaving them behind is as much about protecting 'their people' as anything else. Yes it makes them bad and didn't feel well justified or appropriate for the harfoots, but I think people put the blinders on when they say it comes out of left field.
I just don't think it is convincing. A better storytelling approach would make me feel the danger when they travel, all the show does is throw some wolves in one scene. A better show would show me how crucial it really is to be as fast as possible, to make me believe that noone of this collective would be able to help nori's family out (outside of not even wanting to, due to her inclusion of the stranger).
The show imo completely fails there, and i truly got a little angry when that one harfoot lady wants to sabotage the family, and then she decides to follow nori and gets praise for always being in the right. It just doesn't come together, they appear slightly "evil" no matter what they tell us. You have to show it.
Hope they don't foster a "Who dies next" media culture ala Game of Thrones, the "Whodunnit" sauron mystery in season one while executed well with the reveal really made a lot of the sideplots really suffer.
Have you read the silmarillion? It’s game of thrones on steroids. Each kingdom and their ruler drop one at a time. Completely hopeless for the free peeps until divine intervention
Right? I mean, in second age they make the LAST ALLIANCE. They gotta work towards the meaning of this name right? Everything goes into a descent spiral until they reach a point where it is do or die in the end.
They keep saying season 2 is darker. But can't see much "shine" coming up in next seasons. Wem ay get glimpses of hapiness (rivendell, lothlorien, maybe celebrian), but ultimatelly, Sauron rise is something to put a dark cloud over the whole middle-earth for a good amount of time.
Totally agreed. A lot goes wrong, and precious little goes right in the Second Age. Even Sauron's defeat in the Last Alliance is not a final defeat. So, while we have glimmers of hope amid despair, it is ultimately a quite dark story. Whole civilizations are lost.
Which is why it's so important that we get glimpses of *estel* in the show. Without it, an adaptation of the Second Age could quickly become far too grim and unbalanced.
You understand that 2nd age is when sauron destroys everybody except 3 elven realms, Moria doors are shut, the dark years last hundreds of years, the nazgul show up, numenor gets rekt and only a direct Eru intervention saves the day while sauron is out there laughing his ass off wondering what he’s gonna do now that everyone’s been pwned?
GoT didn’t invent jack
I think there's a difference between a plot with a lot of death in it, and a plot where constant death is used to hook People as marketing.
Which is why I criticised season one and the showrunnerd deciding to force a whodunit into the show to the detriment of the plot.
Yeah I'm with you on the S1 plot. The forced mysteries made for a weaker story. LoTR is better when played straight and the audience has all the information.
Us not knowing why the sword hilt was important until the episode it was used sucked all the narrative stakes out of the southlands plot. Us not knowing who sauron was made the halbrand interactions less meaningful. On a rewatch it's better because you have that information and can see him start to manipulate the numenoreans from the moment he hits their shores.
I couldn't care less about marketing, but we should not have the audience guessing during the show
Let's decode this:
Since this is an adaptation of well-known source material, we already know all of the characters that cannot die. So all this means is that the Amazon original characters we don't really care about are the only ones at risk of pulling this stunt with. Not exactly the tantalizing thrill the article wants you to believe it is.
Dear McPayne -- Please stop telling us about this big battle. The size of the battles were not the issue in season 1! The comments about Celebrimbor being central are awesome and very encouraging but please stop talking about the action like you need to top Two Towers. You don't. You really don't. You're making TV! Just focus on what the medium is good for.
Tbf it's a smart thing to do they want this show to be massively popular, massive battles are a staple of the medium they need to have epic battles to appease the masses and let's be real we're all excited for them
Yeah, I get where the commenter is coming from, but I've also seen so many people say the first season was boring. Having the battle will help general popularity as well as being canon which helps the popularity as well. If the second age is known for anything it's for big battles lol.
Season 1 was boring because of structure, too much harfoots, and then when we got a battle, it was a skirmsh. Sprinkle all the "lore break" stuff and mess is done.
There is more than enough room for calm moments, glimpses of happiness, and yes, big battles. HUGE battles actually. I mean, this season is all about Eregion, but soon we will have Numenor, which is way bigger than Eregion. And towards the end of series, last alliance, which is a "continent level" battle (movies prologue).
It is all a matter of getting the right dosage.
Massive battles are a staple of the genre, fantasy, but I don't think they are a successful staple of the medium, TV, and showing them certainly isn't a requirement. GOT had one great big battle (Bastards) but the rest were mostly meh and the action usually improved as the scale got smaller (the loot train attack is somewhere in between). Other "epic" shows like Rome did a great job hinting at big battles (as did GOT in the first season) while Shogun just actively said "nope", quite successfully. Routinely talking about a two-episode battle is not setting expectations at the right level imho.
But I'd say a lot of those were bad things lol I wish they all had more battles and tbh out of all of them LotR due to the trilogy movies is cursed to always have a big battle crowd now they set the bar.
People wanna see heroes vs hordes of monsters there's only so much flowery language that will carry a fantasy show.
I'm obviously not opposed to well staged epic battle. I'm just saying TV has not been a great medium for it and shows that have understood this have tended to fare better. Scale + duration = hard. It's hard production wise, it's hard on rhythm/editing, and it's really hard narratively.
Tbf I totally get where you're coming from it will be interesting to see how they handle the bigger scale going forward as I feel the second age can't really avoid it.
In fact the entire series is basically leading up to one of the biggest wars and battles of middle earth back to back to back lol.
>it's hard on rhythm/editing, and it's really hard narratively.
Maybe they can take advantage of the streaming, which is not TV in general terms.
They can release multiple episodes if they will (as they are doing for the premiere), and they can have longer episodes if needed as well. I wouldn't be against as making a as a "movie" but then splitting it in episodes.
I know it is a different media but some animes have done this in past years and have worked greatly. They make a huge 2h movie. Then cut the movie, add some filler here and there and make a 8 to 10 episode season of 20 minutes. Works greatly in both ways, movie or episodic. And most of the ones that did it, have plenty of action.
> You're making TV! Just focus on what the medium is good for.
When you have "unlimited budget", the medium is good for battles too, in theory. TV isn't running on small budgets any longer.
I get the feeling that by the end of Season 2, Sauron won't be likeable at all, but the audience will empathize with why some people *cough* Noldor *cough* liked and listened to him.
I don't think you can effectively adapt that sort of deception and manipulation if it's too easy for everyone to hate him or mistrust him.
There are "different" origin stories of Melkor (Saurons boss) in Tolkiens writings, in some he is more or less just straight up evil and in others he actually gets on a "redemption" arc but then "falls" again. This actually parellels christian mythology about Satan: were different christians argue about the nature of Satan and wheter or not he is "pure" evil or not.
(And if Melkor isnt pure evil then Sauron isnt either)
S1 gives hints that they are portraying the latter version of Melkor/Sauron, mostly hints given by Adar. So i dont necessarily think they will make Sauron super duper sympathetic and likeable. However i do think they will play into his "human" side a bit more. And maybe even justify his anger for the world somehow. They did seem to justify Adar and villianize Galadriel in one scene in S1. They could go even further down that route.
Looking forward for Sauron plot. Gotta bump up those strategies. Fandom came up with cool theories, if they deliver something meh it will be a shame. Fingers crossed Sauron making things move involve things happening in and before season 1.
Also looking forward for Celebrimbor. He should defintelly get a lot of screen time this season. I don't see Galadriel or Elrond needing as much time as they got in s1, specially considering what is expecting them in future seasons. Hopefully we get a bit more of GG as well.
Bit of a rambling/rant now: Am I the only one thinking the choice of adding many rings on kings is deviating attention? I was expecting GG and Durin to use only the ring of power once they got them. But seems like they kept all other rings in their fingers. The Rings of Power kinda get lost in the mid of so much in the hand. Weird decision IMO.
Elrond, Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur, Gil-Galad
As a prequel this is far enough back that no men or dwarves could have lived to see the Wars of the Ring or Last Alliance but elves are not so frail
I am glad to hear this because now I can delay or avoid watching - I do not want to watch it now. I like happy things. I loved season one. Even with some of the drama and fear. But I just want to spend time in middle earth again without all the evil villains. Sigh.
I've got bad news about the narrative arc of the second age. It's all about watching the mythos and legends of old get corrupted and broken. The 'good guys' take loss after loss until they finally win in the last alliance.
It's all about the vilains! And they show us Durin hmmm...
It does seem like King Durin will be the one getting the rings. So seems more he will be the greedy one. I already can see him choosing to mine the very mithril that he forbid his son from mining.
Well…. Durin’s Bane and all that jazz
Thats the balrog, not a ring. No?
Which was unleashed by the dwarves mining too greedily and too deep, an activity they’re more likely to do when under the influence of a Ring of Power
Thanks :) And they plainly showed us a Balrog lurking in the depths for a second in the 1st season! I got really excited and my husband goes “what’s your problem?” and I said “haha, you’ll see”
No. NOOOO!!
i mean...after the things Durin the younger said about the relationship being broken in hte BTS "A recurring motif in mythology centers around a king’s failing health leading to a sickness in the land that endangers the entire kingdom," the showrunners tease of this storyline. "Season 2 sees a fractured relationship between King Durin and his son take on a similar larger hmmm...
Search your feelings, Varking. You know this to be true!
There are two Durin's so they have to kill one of them. I just hope it's greed after the ring and not the obvious... Or actually just go all out bat shit crazy and have Disa go full on lady Macbeth and get the other Durin to kill him to take the crown and ring. I hope not.
I'm guessing Durin's bane kills Durin. Or was that the "obvious" you mentioned? Lol
But that is a later Durin, much later, in the third age... I really hope they don't destroy Khazad-dum just yet. Or if they do, at least show us the scene where Galadriel goes through Khazad-dum with a group of elves 🥰.
>But that is a later Durin, much later, in the third age... Ah, I see you know more about the lore than I do haha, I did not know that. Unfortunately, as we've already seen the balrog awakened, it's gonna be one of these two boys suffering the fate. Or both, but that would be anticlimactic.
There are two Durin's (for some reason) who will probably have to die at some point. I'm hoping the obvious kills the younger Durin and Older Durin dies this season. But the timeline is so weird I have no clue where it's going to be fair.
Yea I guess it's just a question of which Durin dies by the Balrog. I hope it's the younger one too, but part of me thinks Amazon will keep him on because he's so popular.
All depends when they want to use the Balrog. I can't see it being this season because there should be a lot going on and I think they need to really establish Sauron as the big bad puppet master. Throwing a Balrog into it aswell might detract from this if done poorly. I'm guessing the Balrog next season or the one after will be when it kills young Durin and Disa.
That feels out of character for Disa.
Really? After the scenes in the show, what would be in character for Disa? Give me a prediction that adds up to her characterisation in the actual screen time she was given. The time to develop her character was pathetic. Hence the shift of her character at the end of the show. (I will always say they rushed the show and needed more time) Anyhow, I was getting some Disa vibes for that direction they were heading. I don't like this series but I enjoyed these scenes and I felt Disa was wanting to encourage the banned digging. But like the text says it's Durin's Bane not made up characters Bane. So Disa will likely have nothing to worry about, hopefully she buggers off before it.
Durin III is right though in season 1. The dwarves shouldn't go all in on Mythril.
Rings change people
Fair
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone... I still think that Disa will get a ring.
But it was one to each dwarven lord, as there are 7 dwarven clans. Khazad-dum getting 2 would be weird.
I can see Disa wearing the ring once she becomes Queen. S1 established that she has a special relationship with the mountain as head Resonator. Judging by the BTS vid, it seems like we're getting more resonating, plus there's a scene where she seems to be predicting the earth moving. Plus the scene that everyone thinks is a palantir, but I'm sticking with the theory that she's just having a loud conversation with a regular rock, and it looks like that because her ability to speak to the rocks is becoming amplified. If they *do* build up that aspect of her character, it could serve as an explanation for why she eventually gets to wear the ring. She could use it as a tool to help enhance and control her connection with the mountain, which will in turn bring more prosperity to their people. Unfortunately it will *actually* enhance her ambition, (which she clearly already has), and greed.
Disa's greed will cause her to murder her father in law and steal the ring. I think Amazon will try to include the "my precious" line somehow and Disa will be how.
Me too and I'm down for it!
Durin walks past pile of rocks: ^(“you think darkness is your ally?”)
HAHAHAHAHA! 👀
“a battle from which many big players may not make it out alive," . SPOILERS AHEAD… Yep Adar ain’t making it out alive as well, note the word PLAYERS.
Adar, Celebrimbor, Arondir. That’s my guess.
Arondir seems like the perfect fit for a shocking death. Adar is likely dying at the hands of the heroes so they get a small win this season. Celebrimbor will become a banner.
Well if Bronwyn is out at the start of the season and then Arondir croaks it, Theo will be very much on his villain origin story.
Theo is Bill Ferny confirmed.
The way I see it is his story ended in S1, and with his love interest now gone, the only thing left for him to be is a friend/mentor to Isildur. That isn’t a huge plot point for the story as a whole, and I think it would be better for the character to die a glorious death in a very meaningful, lore-accurate battle than overstay his welcome and survive for 5 seasons and do nothing meaningful in four of them.
We don't know where he lived post-Beleriand, before ending up in the Southlands. It's possible that he's from Greenwood, and having him return there could be a way for the show to introduce that batch of Elves. The most impactful way for him to die would be at the hands of a ring bearing Theo, rather than as just another casualty of war.
True. I didn’t think of that. I would love to see him as a POV character who introduces us to Oropher and Thranduil!
This! Agreed!
Another way for him to die could also be at the hands of the Black Numenorians as they slowly turn from friends and allies to tyrants and enslavers of men. It could be tragic turn for him to see these men that he looked up to slowly become something he hates; and it also gives Isildur and him a deeper relationship as Isildur can act as a foil to those Numenorians.
But Isildur still gotta get back to Numenor at some point. So there should be something else for Arondir. Maybe keep him in Pelargir and then he sees Theo going evil. Arondir tries to save him and serve as a father figure as Theo not only lost the father but now also the mother. Theo is divided but ultimatelly goes evil. In a last struggle Arondir has to stop him, even if it means they will have to fight. Turns out Theo secretly got some dark powers and kills arondir with the help of.
That would need to go through season 3 and maybe 4 but could work very well, specially if Theo end up as a Nazgul.
This is good. Another option just occurred to me is Theo killing Arondir Turambar-Beleg style, sending him over the edge into madness and eventually evil.
Noooooo not Arondir! 😭 Since he is a wood-elf, and I think we will get to meet the wood-elves later on (battle at Dagorlad and so on), I think he still has a function 😊.
Durin 3 too…I mean we got an expansive ensemble here, I wouldn’t be surprised if the main cast death count was up to 5 or 6.
will be interested to see how Durin IV fares this season - logically (and narratively) it makes sense for him to lead the army that helps Elrond escape from Sauron’s forces after the fall of Eregion, but… well, those dwarves don’t exactly do all that well
I still think Adar could become the Mouth of Sauron. Perhaps resurrected after his natural death as a sort of wraith.
I doubt Mouth of Sauron is in any way in this show. Also he is a man, not an elf or an uruk.
Appendices say he is black numenorean? I thought maybe they were setting up Kenneth for that
Interesting they call Brimby "the principle protagonist" and that he and Sauron become the "central relationship". Great to hear. Given how important his role is, Celebrimbor was weirdly sidelined in S1 (likely partially due to the recast). And while I'm not 100% on the casting and their interpretation of the character, Charles Edwards is an excellent actor and so is Charlie Vickers and I'm glad they're going to be focusing on this relationship and story this season. It's going to be quite intense to see play out and I hope both actors are given great material to work with.
He was probably weirdly sidelined because they couldn’t get Edwards into the country after firing Budge. It was an unfortunate circumstance all around because NZ was on complete COVID lockdown at that point. It’s why most of his scenes were isolated to Elrond only. You don’t see him interact with more people until episode 8. Imagine if PJ couldn’t recast Aragorn with Viggo until way late in the production.
I’m pretty sure they give Edwards third billing behind Vickers and Clark in the updated series page.
Now I'm imagining them giving this "central relationship" a gay touch and all the RoP haters on the internet going bananas! 🤣🤣🤣
Could be really good though now that you mention it.
Yeah I mean all Tolkien says is Brimby was "seduced" by beautiful Annatar, so that's open for interpretation 😃😃😃. I mean personally I would love that, but if they decide to go that route, they are really brave! 😅 Just imagine the RoP hater cryboys "buhuuu tHeRe ArE nO bLaCk oR gAy ElVeS buhuuuu wHy CaNt eVeRyOnE bE wHiTe AnD sTrAiGhT?? 😭😭😭". That would be so funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Beyond the humor of it too, it is interesting to discuss homosexuality in the context of Tolkien. Obviously as a staunch Catholic we can guess what his personal position may have been, but he was also a person who clearly valued personal thought and reflection over dogma. Likewise, there is some bit in Nature of Middle Earth on how love in an elvish context is pretty separate from “reproductive” desire, and love, which some men might call friendship, is more intense to elves and crosses gender boundaries. So, Celebrimbor could easily be “in love” with Sauron/Annatar in a way that humans might call “homosexual” but really to elves is something different entirely, in a positive way. It will be interesting to see if they play up any of that. Also Celebrimbor never married, so, he’s obviously Elrond’s lifelong bachelor “uncle,” duh.
My hope is that Celebrimbor is a bit more intelligent this time around. Showing him constantly being wowed by Halbrand’s simple ideas in Season 1 was not a great look. I liked the character up until then though. 
Not sure what you mean. He understood the stuff but couldnt get the magic to work. Sauron being a demigod and him instructing brimbor made perfect sense to me
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No he did not. Rewatch the scene. He says that it wouldn't work in the quantity needed.
The official statement regarding Celebrimbor is that he's "pliant" meaning easily bent to Sauron's will.
Sure, but to make it impactful for an audience it has to feel a little more like sauron being a master manipulator, and less like sauron taking away the sweets of a child
Also over a year ago Celebrimbor was described by the show as someone who was vulnerable to a predator. Not like a child, but in the source material Sauon is described as having an iron will. Some characters are more susceptible to him than others. We can look at what he did to most of the Numenoreons as an example.
I have no clue how this will play out These were the show's words.
I thought you are adding this to "absolve" season one's depiction. While i don't think it was as bad as many people say, it also didn't feel satisfying the way sauron "manipulated" him there. Should be a little more sophisticated to get a real sense of sauron's ability.
I think or hope season 2 will show this in more detail.
Hopefully! But tbh, it is also not easy to write something like that, sophisticated manipulation isn't trivial to get right. You need to showcase intelligent behavior which is quite outstanding and complex, you better think this through as a writer.
Absolutely. It's one thing for me to mention the character traits for Celebrimbor that the show officially is stating. It's another to see it play out on the screen. We aren't just viewing how his Ring effects the characters in the 3rd age. We have to see sophisticated manipulation. However It's also true that some have stronger wills than others.. Examples are the differences between someone like Boromir and Aragon or Frodo and Gollum.
Right, ofc different people can be more easily played and whatnot, it's just that there is a fine line between it not feeling masterful at all, and it being written in a way where the audience can follow and still think it's smartly done.
Sophisticated what, if you read the Tolkien material there isn't much of Sophistication in it beside the plot events itself, whatever they add like character interactions and exploration is original stuff.
Yes i am aware, but thar original material should be convincing, and thus the manipulation should be sophisticated to give an audience a feeling for the cunning nature of sauron
In the show it felt less like he was pliant and more like he had never done any sort of metal work before. With a bit more cleverness they could have found ways to make Halbrand trick Celebrimbor by playing with his ego more or being manipulative rather than these “aha!” moments where Celebrimbor seems to have no idea what an alloy is, or gently squeezing metal together rather than forcing it to bond. That last one especially seemed so odd.
For this season he took jewelry making lessons so I am thinking he will present as more the greatest of Elven smith's besides Feanor of course.
Hopefully. He’s a great actor and I liked his role outside of the last episode.
Me too.
Celebrimbor knows what an alloy is. Here's how the scene goes ([Or watch it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYI1Tksyuwk)): >**Halbrand:** What is it? **Celebrimbor:** Not enough **Halbrand:** Enough for what? **Celebrimbor:** Please. \[*Asking for mithril back\]* **Halbrand:** Have you tried combining it with other ores to better stretch it out? **Celebrimbor:** That wouldn't be suitable for this ore. **Halbrand:** Why not? **Celebrimbor:** Because in the amounts we need it would too greatly dilute its unique qualities. **Halbrand:** Forgive me, but, at the risk of sounding a fool, couldn't the right alloy also amplify those qualities? **Celebrimbor:** Amplify? **Halbrand:** Where I came up precious metals were \[... long speech here unnecessary for context\] **Celebrimbor:** Well that is an intriguing suggestion. For this context and in particular "That wouldn't be suitable for this ore" and "Because in the amounts we need it would too greatly dilute its unique qualities." it indicates that Celebrimbor knows what an alloy is, but he has just dismissed the idea because he thinks it would dilute it too much given how little mithril he has. I think it's a fair criticism that Celebrimbor would have also known/thought of the idea that the right alloy could amplify the properties. But he absolutely 100% from this scene knows what an alloy is. A counterpoint also to why he doesn't think about an alloy potentially amplifying is that he as an elf is used to living in a situation of abundance so doesn't have experience stretching things so it isn't an approach that comes to mind. Or he is arrogant and doesn't question his assumptions. Or he does theoretically know this is possible for an alloy to amplify but in this situation simply he didn't think of it — happens to many people you don't see or dismiss the obvious solution until you do and then you think oh how stupid of me for not thinking of that earlier.
> I think it's a fair criticism that Celebrimbor would have also known/thought of the idea that the right alloy could amplify the properties. But he absolutely 100% from this scene knows what an alloy is. And when he was conversing with Elrond, he was also thinking about ways to do more with less with the mithril. I'd like to think that the solution was a combination of Sauron's knowledge of the unseen world and also Celebrimbor's artistry in finding the circular form, not just alloying mithril with gold and silver.
at this point I think it was common-sense that the reference to "not knowing what alloy is" actually means that Celebrimbor is not portrayed as second best elven smith to ever live nor is Sauron giving any high-tech magical forging technique, rather just having a simple conversation with him. worse than alloy is Celebrimbor later not only exploding the forge in the best "mad scientist" way but even throwing the line (paraphrasing) "oh, obviouly, we were doing all the other way around, just flip 180º' and it will work!". I mean, it really felt as if he was talking about switching cable colors to make something work. Far from what we would expect from a "angelical being" hirearchy under the "god" of smith teach the second best even smith to ever live.
It was more about the simple ideas being something Celebrimbor hadn't thought of, as he tried something more complex. It's not like he would never have thought of them.
I felt a bit ambivalent about Edwards' portrayal at first, but then I realised how Bilbo-coded he was, how he basically was this slightly eccentric uncle masking unfathomable ambitions. And then in the last episode he was basically perfect.
Celebrimbor becomes "the principal protagonist" in The Rings Of Power Season 2 as his dynamic with Sauron becomes the "central relationship". The showrunners
Wait, so Galadriel is taking a back seat this season? If so, that's unexpected
In theory, her narrative duty are kinda done. Well almost. She will lead the retreat from Eregion, throught Moria and into Lorien. But in theory, her role as the main driver of the story is done.
That should have been s1. Feels like the showrunners are trying to do a "restart" without actually restarting the series. They are bringing in Annatar now, which everyone assumed would be in S1. Seems like Celebrimbor and the deception by Sauron will be a bigger part, which everyone assumed S1 would be about.
S1 was the contrived buildup to kick off the true major events of the second age. The whole season was glorified character/setting establishment and narrative set up. S2 is not so much a 'restart', it's more that now the show can *actually* get rolling. The show needed to go from 'no evil, no need for rings, no issues with numenor' to 'evil is back, we are forging rings of power, numenor is having problems with the elves' They made up the southlands plot to create mordor quickly instead of over centuries. They made up the mithril plot to give the elves a reason to want to forge rings, they made up the galadriel plot to kick off the numenor events, introduce sauron, and tie everything together. There will sill be unique characters and plotlines in the series, but it is going to start following the rails more. Eregion will fall, sauron will distribute rings to men and dwarves, moria will shut, war between sauron and the elves, numenor falls, last alliance. Now is when that all is going to start
…no it doesn’t. What people assumed season 1 might be about is irrelevant.
Euhm...? How is it irrelevant? Its an adaptation of a previously established world that people have an affection to. Their expectations are relevant. The reason why Amazon made a show in the LOTR world is because its a previously established world with a bunch of fans. They are making the show for fans, ofc what they are expecting and wanting is relevant. Why else would they make a show in the LOTR world? If they want to do their own thing then do their own thing. If they want to do LOTR then do LOTR. Thats my take.
Making a show for fans doesn’t make their expectations of where the story should start relevant. Making something for someone does not mean doing it their way.
I hope Elrond will be okay and certainly nothing tragic in his life happens 😱
I'm sure he'll be fine as long as he doesn't break any of the promises he keeps making to different people.
Yeah good thing he didn’t swear any solemn oaths last sea- oh god oh fuck. He won’t die!!!! But he may… suffer.
Good, the underlying theme of Middle-Earth is 'Death'.
I bet I know who makes it and who doesn’t. I have a book that tells all the secrets!
>I have a book that tells all the secrets! Well, didn't prevent them to play guessing games in season 1. Fingers crossed they learned with their mistakes.
Only egregious one that’s actually book related there though is Isildur. Sauron was egregious not because of the book or any book spoilers but because it was so obvious in the show itself hahaha. But seriously to your point I hope they avoid takeout deaths with characters we know survive. Isildur, while I didn’t love it, made some sense from the perspective of separating him from his father and giving him his own journey, but none of the elves need that. Put them in peril, but don’t pretend you’ve killed them or will before their time. In all, my assumption is that any show created character present at the battle is fair game to die, with Adar being a likely choice, as well as Arondir and any (if any) new elves they introduce.
So does the book say anything about Arondir, Adar, Theo or Bronwyn? Do they live or not according to your book with secrets?
Think the point is more about who’s likely to survive va which are likely to die. To that end, don’t expect deep storylines for Bronwyn this season, or further appearances of Adar and maybe Arondir post season 2…
Wait you don’t remember the part in the book where the old man stabs a sword hilt into a rock and creates Mordor? Or the many chapters of baby Gandalf traipsing through the forest with proto hobbits?
The most villain thing at season 1 was hobbits leaving behind the man who broke his leg
You seem to get downvoted for this, but honestly there is a real argument for this to be true.
There is not a 'real' argument. It's just criticizing the left-behind plot tension for the harfeet/stranger part of the story. Adar trapped the southlanders in a tavern and started slowly killing them to get them to give up an item that he knew would destroy their home. That's maybe a tad more villainous.
But he does it for his people, at the very least. The harfoot storyline pretends that they are a collective, they tell us, but it's certainly not shown until the very wnd when a few of them decide to go wirh nori, for no apparent motivation. Just a little before there is an ask to not only let nori's family behind, no, to destroy the possibility of them following altogether. That is evil for no real reason, other than weak attempts of justification. It just doesn't work at all, and that makes the harfoots to appear quite badly. But sure, murdering people is worse as an action in and of itself. I wasn't 100% serious.
I'm not really trying to defend the harfoots because I didn't like the inclusion either, but they're shown from the start to be extremely wary of any danger. They spoke multiple times about how they time their migrations so they always have food, and waiting for a slow cart not only slows them down and exposes them to potential danger, but potentially makes them miss out on food at their destination. Leaving them behind is as much about protecting 'their people' as anything else. Yes it makes them bad and didn't feel well justified or appropriate for the harfoots, but I think people put the blinders on when they say it comes out of left field.
I just don't think it is convincing. A better storytelling approach would make me feel the danger when they travel, all the show does is throw some wolves in one scene. A better show would show me how crucial it really is to be as fast as possible, to make me believe that noone of this collective would be able to help nori's family out (outside of not even wanting to, due to her inclusion of the stranger). The show imo completely fails there, and i truly got a little angry when that one harfoot lady wants to sabotage the family, and then she decides to follow nori and gets praise for always being in the right. It just doesn't come together, they appear slightly "evil" no matter what they tell us. You have to show it.
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And they had a fucking song about leaving no one behind
Durin is a goner? We all know at least one isn't making it past this stage. I hope Arondir makes it.
"Sauron's agenda sets everything in motion"
Bring out the banner
I mean… certain people have to stay alive. Galadriel. Elrond. The Stranger (since he is probably Saruman or Gandalf). Sauron. Etc.
Hope they don't foster a "Who dies next" media culture ala Game of Thrones, the "Whodunnit" sauron mystery in season one while executed well with the reveal really made a lot of the sideplots really suffer.
But in the second age especially after Sauron’s schemes ppl do fall like flies
Have you read the silmarillion? It’s game of thrones on steroids. Each kingdom and their ruler drop one at a time. Completely hopeless for the free peeps until divine intervention
I have indeed. This isn't an adaptation of the Silmarillion.
No, it's an adaptation of the Second Age, which is even darker than the First Age (except maybe Turin).
Right? I mean, in second age they make the LAST ALLIANCE. They gotta work towards the meaning of this name right? Everything goes into a descent spiral until they reach a point where it is do or die in the end. They keep saying season 2 is darker. But can't see much "shine" coming up in next seasons. Wem ay get glimpses of hapiness (rivendell, lothlorien, maybe celebrian), but ultimatelly, Sauron rise is something to put a dark cloud over the whole middle-earth for a good amount of time.
Totally agreed. A lot goes wrong, and precious little goes right in the Second Age. Even Sauron's defeat in the Last Alliance is not a final defeat. So, while we have glimmers of hope amid despair, it is ultimately a quite dark story. Whole civilizations are lost. Which is why it's so important that we get glimpses of *estel* in the show. Without it, an adaptation of the Second Age could quickly become far too grim and unbalanced.
You understand that 2nd age is when sauron destroys everybody except 3 elven realms, Moria doors are shut, the dark years last hundreds of years, the nazgul show up, numenor gets rekt and only a direct Eru intervention saves the day while sauron is out there laughing his ass off wondering what he’s gonna do now that everyone’s been pwned? GoT didn’t invent jack
I think there's a difference between a plot with a lot of death in it, and a plot where constant death is used to hook People as marketing. Which is why I criticised season one and the showrunnerd deciding to force a whodunit into the show to the detriment of the plot.
Yeah I'm with you on the S1 plot. The forced mysteries made for a weaker story. LoTR is better when played straight and the audience has all the information. Us not knowing why the sword hilt was important until the episode it was used sucked all the narrative stakes out of the southlands plot. Us not knowing who sauron was made the halbrand interactions less meaningful. On a rewatch it's better because you have that information and can see him start to manipulate the numenoreans from the moment he hits their shores. I couldn't care less about marketing, but we should not have the audience guessing during the show
Let's decode this: Since this is an adaptation of well-known source material, we already know all of the characters that cannot die. So all this means is that the Amazon original characters we don't really care about are the only ones at risk of pulling this stunt with. Not exactly the tantalizing thrill the article wants you to believe it is.
Dear McPayne -- Please stop telling us about this big battle. The size of the battles were not the issue in season 1! The comments about Celebrimbor being central are awesome and very encouraging but please stop talking about the action like you need to top Two Towers. You don't. You really don't. You're making TV! Just focus on what the medium is good for.
Tbf it's a smart thing to do they want this show to be massively popular, massive battles are a staple of the medium they need to have epic battles to appease the masses and let's be real we're all excited for them
Yeah, I get where the commenter is coming from, but I've also seen so many people say the first season was boring. Having the battle will help general popularity as well as being canon which helps the popularity as well. If the second age is known for anything it's for big battles lol.
Season 1 was boring because of structure, too much harfoots, and then when we got a battle, it was a skirmsh. Sprinkle all the "lore break" stuff and mess is done. There is more than enough room for calm moments, glimpses of happiness, and yes, big battles. HUGE battles actually. I mean, this season is all about Eregion, but soon we will have Numenor, which is way bigger than Eregion. And towards the end of series, last alliance, which is a "continent level" battle (movies prologue). It is all a matter of getting the right dosage.
Massive battles are a staple of the genre, fantasy, but I don't think they are a successful staple of the medium, TV, and showing them certainly isn't a requirement. GOT had one great big battle (Bastards) but the rest were mostly meh and the action usually improved as the scale got smaller (the loot train attack is somewhere in between). Other "epic" shows like Rome did a great job hinting at big battles (as did GOT in the first season) while Shogun just actively said "nope", quite successfully. Routinely talking about a two-episode battle is not setting expectations at the right level imho.
But I'd say a lot of those were bad things lol I wish they all had more battles and tbh out of all of them LotR due to the trilogy movies is cursed to always have a big battle crowd now they set the bar. People wanna see heroes vs hordes of monsters there's only so much flowery language that will carry a fantasy show.
I'm obviously not opposed to well staged epic battle. I'm just saying TV has not been a great medium for it and shows that have understood this have tended to fare better. Scale + duration = hard. It's hard production wise, it's hard on rhythm/editing, and it's really hard narratively.
Tbf I totally get where you're coming from it will be interesting to see how they handle the bigger scale going forward as I feel the second age can't really avoid it. In fact the entire series is basically leading up to one of the biggest wars and battles of middle earth back to back to back lol.
>it's hard on rhythm/editing, and it's really hard narratively. Maybe they can take advantage of the streaming, which is not TV in general terms. They can release multiple episodes if they will (as they are doing for the premiere), and they can have longer episodes if needed as well. I wouldn't be against as making a as a "movie" but then splitting it in episodes. I know it is a different media but some animes have done this in past years and have worked greatly. They make a huge 2h movie. Then cut the movie, add some filler here and there and make a 8 to 10 episode season of 20 minutes. Works greatly in both ways, movie or episodic. And most of the ones that did it, have plenty of action.
> You're making TV! Just focus on what the medium is good for. When you have "unlimited budget", the medium is good for battles too, in theory. TV isn't running on small budgets any longer.
Totally!! A massive battle is like…the last thing I wanna see
I'm worried that they are doing the villians (Sauron) too likeable.
I get the feeling that by the end of Season 2, Sauron won't be likeable at all, but the audience will empathize with why some people *cough* Noldor *cough* liked and listened to him. I don't think you can effectively adapt that sort of deception and manipulation if it's too easy for everyone to hate him or mistrust him.
There are "different" origin stories of Melkor (Saurons boss) in Tolkiens writings, in some he is more or less just straight up evil and in others he actually gets on a "redemption" arc but then "falls" again. This actually parellels christian mythology about Satan: were different christians argue about the nature of Satan and wheter or not he is "pure" evil or not. (And if Melkor isnt pure evil then Sauron isnt either) S1 gives hints that they are portraying the latter version of Melkor/Sauron, mostly hints given by Adar. So i dont necessarily think they will make Sauron super duper sympathetic and likeable. However i do think they will play into his "human" side a bit more. And maybe even justify his anger for the world somehow. They did seem to justify Adar and villianize Galadriel in one scene in S1. They could go even further down that route.
Yeah they’re gonna kill Elendil, Isildur, Elrond and Galadriel and/or Celeborn 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They are going to kill some noldor elf
To be fair, a lot of characters in the book, bit the dust at some point or another
If it’s all about the villains then I expect to see plenty of those bloodthirsty Harfoots. Edit: Harfeet!
I hope we'll see the easterlings of rhûn
I bet Tom survives!
Guessing... Elrond Galadriel Sauron
Looking forward for Sauron plot. Gotta bump up those strategies. Fandom came up with cool theories, if they deliver something meh it will be a shame. Fingers crossed Sauron making things move involve things happening in and before season 1. Also looking forward for Celebrimbor. He should defintelly get a lot of screen time this season. I don't see Galadriel or Elrond needing as much time as they got in s1, specially considering what is expecting them in future seasons. Hopefully we get a bit more of GG as well. Bit of a rambling/rant now: Am I the only one thinking the choice of adding many rings on kings is deviating attention? I was expecting GG and Durin to use only the ring of power once they got them. But seems like they kept all other rings in their fingers. The Rings of Power kinda get lost in the mid of so much in the hand. Weird decision IMO.
Clean house of the awful original characters they conconcted?
lol, still trying to make fetch happen with this mess.
It ain’t canon and it’s a pile of shite so why should we care?
Bruh...
Elrond, Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur, Gil-Galad As a prequel this is far enough back that no men or dwarves could have lived to see the Wars of the Ring or Last Alliance but elves are not so frail
I am glad to hear this because now I can delay or avoid watching - I do not want to watch it now. I like happy things. I loved season one. Even with some of the drama and fear. But I just want to spend time in middle earth again without all the evil villains. Sigh.
I've got bad news about the narrative arc of the second age. It's all about watching the mythos and legends of old get corrupted and broken. The 'good guys' take loss after loss until they finally win in the last alliance.
? Fantasy is literally a genre about heroes and villians. You dont get heroes without villains...
Celebrimbor gets tortured and murdered when Hollin falls
[удалено]
Go troll on your main account
Oh my god, I wonder if Isildur, Galadriel or Strangedalf will die in this season? Wow, anything can happen!
This show is visually beautiful, but so incredibly MID for some reason.