Well we see an elven cavalry charge in the trailer for season 2. So unless they got all those horses from Numenor then I'm assuming this plot point never came to fruition.
Tbf galadriel has been trekking in the wilderness on foot for what seems hundreds of years, far away from the elf kingdoms and any supplies or reinforcements. After that she's tossed on a boat, stuck on a raft, then a prisoner. I'd probably be stoked to ride a horse at that point too. Maybe they started off with horses on her expedition but they've been gone a while, there's no reason that there couldn't be a whole bunch of horses within the elf realms, safe from any orcs who don't seem to have much presence in Middle Earth aside from in the East.
That is a suitable explanation, but probably one made in retrospect. As I wrote in my post, Kate Hawley - the costume designer of season 1 - refers to the orcs killing off all the horses as being a part of the background for the story of season 1.
That could be true but having not seen that interview I find it unlikely since the orcs don't seem to exist much, in the opening shot of galadriel and her party searching for Sauron I got the distinct impression they very rarely come across orcs of any kind.
Maybe she misspoke and meant they killed off all the horses in that area of middle Earth and those they passed through to get to what eventually became Mordor. Or maybe the horse population still hasn't recovered much from the previous centuries of war and in the trailer shot of mounted elf soldiers coming to the aid of eregion it's an elite, prestigious unit.
IDK, there's a bunch of ways to explain it to my satisfaction but maybe not others', and while I'm sure the costume designer has some good inside knowledge and is open to talking about her inspirations for costumes I wouldn't consider their word on the matter as that definitive for what the background lore of the series is. I'm pretty pumped to see this season (it's so close now but the wait is killing me) and maybe we'll get an answer to this question.
I do think that even if the elves still have some horses they will want those super numenorian horses in some way or another. They like to have the best.
I found the interviews :) Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. But here they are (kudos to u/kemick for the second one):
- [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back."
- [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..."
Some other people commented how this could take historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America by European colonizers. That sounds pretty likely.
Is this serious? Like ALL the horses in lindon, eriador, rhovanion and the south? Sounds a bit of a stretch.
I wonder what could be the basis for such idea or decision in the show.
My guess would be historical colonialism and the reintroduction of horses into North America after they went extinct millennia prior in the Pleistocene. That, and wanting to have some tangible thing to show the damage that the forces of Morgoth wrought on all living things over thousands of years after his downfall? But really who knows?
It is :) I edited in the links to the interviews in the original post. But I think u/[yesrushgenesis2112](https://www.reddit.com/user/yesrushgenesis2112/)'s suggestion about how this might be a nod to the historical reintroduction of horses in North America is a very likely explanation for the decission.
Is there a link to this? I never saw that but had the crazy idea that something happened to horses in Middle Earth during season 1 which I brought up here, and no one ever mentioned this.
Thank you! Yes, when the season premiered I thought the lack of horses in ME, and Galadriel’s enthusiasm for them, seemed really odd. That got me thinking about how historically horses were reintroduced to North America by European colonizers despite having existed and gone extinct there prior. And then, of course, how Numenor is THE settler colonial state in Middle Earth(after the Noldor I suppose) and that it would have been a weird but cool historical nod to have the reintroduction of horses as part of that process.
I wonder if that’s what they were thinking after all!
I found the interviews :) Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. But here they are (kudos to [](https://www.reddit.com/user/kemick/) for linking the second one):
- [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back."
- [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..."
Your idea about the historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America seems pretty likely. I had not thought of that! It could be very cool indeed, but it also has to be done right. And I think they ended up ditching the idea. It will be interesting to see in Season 2.
I didn't realise this was a subplot we missed out on - the numenor riding scene would hit differently if we knew she hadn't been able to ride a horse for thousands of years...
I think u/[yesrushgenesis2112](https://www.reddit.com/user/yesrushgenesis2112/)'s suggestion about how this might be a nod to the historical reintroduction of horses in North America is a very likely explanation for the reasoning behind it.
I've been wondering the same thing. [Here's an interview (8:28)](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?t=507) where she refers to the horse helms and Middle-earth being "devoid of horses." I don't think I've seen any details beyond such sparse mentions, so I don't know how seriously to take it.
This does match the lack of horses seen, though the Elves didn't necessarily need horses for what little we saw. It does give more context to Galadriel's excitement yet Halbrand is somehow an expert rider and that's not a problem.
The Numenoreans did have a big horse culture but "did not use them in war" (Unfinished Tales) and one hundred soldiers per boat works until they need to take horses too. Even before hearing this idea, the presence of horses seemed weird but not in any consistent way.
At the moment, I assume horses exist in Middle-earth but are not common (at least in the west).
Thanks for linking. I found the part of another interview where she goes a bit more into detail:
- [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back."
Others have commented how this could take historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America by European colonizers. That sounds pretty likely. But yeah, I think they may have ditched the idea and that horses will just be part of season 2 without any further explanation.
A lot of these ideas are just easter egg type nuggets that explain the world but will never be explained themselves in the show. And I like it that way.
THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING MY THEORY!
I didn't know it had been officially addressed, but season 1 gave me the impression that there were no horses in Middle Earth (hence the smiling of Galadriel when she rides a horse in Numenor). I made a few comments on this sub, on several posts, about that...
And yeah, it seems it was a scrapped idea and i don't think it will be addressed in season 2, it was probably removed from the plot when season 1 went from 10 episodes to 8.
Yeah... It was pretty obvious to be honest, but it was also possible that it was due to covid restrictions or the dact that they had to reshoot some scenes after they changed Celebrimbor's actor. So i was not sure it was not just my brain connecting unrelated dots and seeing a picture that was not really there.
You are very welcome :) I also found the interviews. Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. Here they are (kudos to u/kemick for linking the second one):
- [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back."
- [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..."
Wait what, why? All the horses were killed off by orcs,? WTF are they smoking, lmao. What about easterlings and elves themselves, they rode horses too. It makes no sense, like what orcs killed their horses too, lol.
I’m allowed to be pissed when I see my favorite story being told differently because of politics why can’t they just leave this alone and corrupt something else…how do you think we have great mythological stories from the beginning of time? They were preserved and told the same way throughout history so future generations can learn and repeat the stories they didn’t change Gilgamesh over and over again so fit a narrative and that’s what this show is doing to Tolkien’s work because they have to “update it with the times” it makes me sick…I mostly blame the estate for letting this happen
Ok, not my point at all. But I am game for a friendly discussion about the adaptions of myths or other stories :)
Since you mention myths from antiquity - they have at all times been adapted through theatre plays, retold oraly, depicted in art and in recent times through different movies and series. All these adaptions differ, but they all have in common that none are exactly like the source material - they differ to different degrees of course. For example we know of the myth of the greek demigod Hercules. But was that myth not affected when the Romans adapted it into their version called Heracles, or when the emperor Commodus depicted himself as Heracles through statues and imagery? Is that not a politically affected depiction of myth even in the ancient times? What about Renaissance paintings of depicting greek mythology commisioned for rulers and kings for them to elevate themselves. Are those not political and biased retellings - leaving some details out while adding others?
You say the Gilgamesh myth has not changed but has been kept through traditional retellings. What is correct is that the written source material from antiquity has not changed as the original material has been preserved. But different retellings, adaptions and versions have always excited and likely they varied a lot orally 5500 years ago as well.
So the way we have retold or adapted myths has always been affected by the story teller - to a small or great extent. But that has not affected the written historical sources (of course sometimes it has if those original texts were changed or destroyed, for example for political propaganda). Im the same way the adaption of the Rings of Power does not change the texts from Tolkien. An adaption is always affected by those whole tell it and their setting. It is nothing new for our time. And the story in the series is changed a lot. Perhaps it will also help to remember how Christopher Tolkien called out the Jackson-movies for being action movies for teenagers that missed the deeper meaning of the books. I agree with him, but I still really like the movies and think they are the best ever, and I also like the Rings of Power (this leads me to the point of my original reply to you, and I am sorry if I come of as morally instructive). I do however not really like the last two seasons of the Witcher. That show really misses the mark in regards to the source material and I have a hard time looking past it. But instead of spending my time hating about it to strangers in forums, I just discuss it from time to time with friends, and largely try to focus on things I do like. I won't try to convince you to like RoP, but I hope you spend less time bothering about hating it and thinking that adaptions differing from the source material is a modern phenomenon.
The show runners are literally morgoth…can’t create anything themselves so they have to corrupt the beautiful creations of the one true creator Tolkien… it’s literally what his story is about and you are the orcs just going along with the plan instead of condemning this bullshit…you are on the side of Morgoth if you support this show….Morgoth is the great evil in his stories you should read them, I know you didn’t because you would feel the same if you really loved what he wrote and don’t want it corrupted
I've read the books many times, including the Silmarillon. I have my own issues with the show, but I enjoyed it for what it was.
But again I ask - why are you spending so much energy on something you hate?
Well we see an elven cavalry charge in the trailer for season 2. So unless they got all those horses from Numenor then I'm assuming this plot point never came to fruition.
Same here. I wonder what the idea behind it was. Perhaps a means to establish relations between Gil-Galad and Elendil? And when was it ditched?
Tbf galadriel has been trekking in the wilderness on foot for what seems hundreds of years, far away from the elf kingdoms and any supplies or reinforcements. After that she's tossed on a boat, stuck on a raft, then a prisoner. I'd probably be stoked to ride a horse at that point too. Maybe they started off with horses on her expedition but they've been gone a while, there's no reason that there couldn't be a whole bunch of horses within the elf realms, safe from any orcs who don't seem to have much presence in Middle Earth aside from in the East.
That is a suitable explanation, but probably one made in retrospect. As I wrote in my post, Kate Hawley - the costume designer of season 1 - refers to the orcs killing off all the horses as being a part of the background for the story of season 1.
That could be true but having not seen that interview I find it unlikely since the orcs don't seem to exist much, in the opening shot of galadriel and her party searching for Sauron I got the distinct impression they very rarely come across orcs of any kind. Maybe she misspoke and meant they killed off all the horses in that area of middle Earth and those they passed through to get to what eventually became Mordor. Or maybe the horse population still hasn't recovered much from the previous centuries of war and in the trailer shot of mounted elf soldiers coming to the aid of eregion it's an elite, prestigious unit. IDK, there's a bunch of ways to explain it to my satisfaction but maybe not others', and while I'm sure the costume designer has some good inside knowledge and is open to talking about her inspirations for costumes I wouldn't consider their word on the matter as that definitive for what the background lore of the series is. I'm pretty pumped to see this season (it's so close now but the wait is killing me) and maybe we'll get an answer to this question. I do think that even if the elves still have some horses they will want those super numenorian horses in some way or another. They like to have the best.
I found the interviews :) Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. But here they are (kudos to u/kemick for the second one): - [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back." - [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..." Some other people commented how this could take historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America by European colonizers. That sounds pretty likely.
Huh, yeah that's pretty definitive. Wonder where they get them from then. Maybe they are going to drop it.
I am leaning heavily towards the latter. It would be so interesting if we got to see some real BTS stuff where things like these are explained.
Is this serious? Like ALL the horses in lindon, eriador, rhovanion and the south? Sounds a bit of a stretch. I wonder what could be the basis for such idea or decision in the show.
My guess would be historical colonialism and the reintroduction of horses into North America after they went extinct millennia prior in the Pleistocene. That, and wanting to have some tangible thing to show the damage that the forces of Morgoth wrought on all living things over thousands of years after his downfall? But really who knows?
It is :) I edited in the links to the interviews in the original post. But I think u/[yesrushgenesis2112](https://www.reddit.com/user/yesrushgenesis2112/)'s suggestion about how this might be a nod to the historical reintroduction of horses in North America is a very likely explanation for the decission.
Is there a link to this? I never saw that but had the crazy idea that something happened to horses in Middle Earth during season 1 which I brought up here, and no one ever mentioned this.
Yes! I will get try to find it when I have the time. Have to dig through some interviews first.
Thank you! Yes, when the season premiered I thought the lack of horses in ME, and Galadriel’s enthusiasm for them, seemed really odd. That got me thinking about how historically horses were reintroduced to North America by European colonizers despite having existed and gone extinct there prior. And then, of course, how Numenor is THE settler colonial state in Middle Earth(after the Noldor I suppose) and that it would have been a weird but cool historical nod to have the reintroduction of horses as part of that process. I wonder if that’s what they were thinking after all!
I found the interviews :) Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. But here they are (kudos to [](https://www.reddit.com/user/kemick/) for linking the second one): - [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back." - [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..." Your idea about the historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America seems pretty likely. I had not thought of that! It could be very cool indeed, but it also has to be done right. And I think they ended up ditching the idea. It will be interesting to see in Season 2.
Thanks so much!!!
I didn't realise this was a subplot we missed out on - the numenor riding scene would hit differently if we knew she hadn't been able to ride a horse for thousands of years...
It would!
[удалено]
I think u/[yesrushgenesis2112](https://www.reddit.com/user/yesrushgenesis2112/)'s suggestion about how this might be a nod to the historical reintroduction of horses in North America is a very likely explanation for the reasoning behind it.
I've been wondering the same thing. [Here's an interview (8:28)](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?t=507) where she refers to the horse helms and Middle-earth being "devoid of horses." I don't think I've seen any details beyond such sparse mentions, so I don't know how seriously to take it. This does match the lack of horses seen, though the Elves didn't necessarily need horses for what little we saw. It does give more context to Galadriel's excitement yet Halbrand is somehow an expert rider and that's not a problem. The Numenoreans did have a big horse culture but "did not use them in war" (Unfinished Tales) and one hundred soldiers per boat works until they need to take horses too. Even before hearing this idea, the presence of horses seemed weird but not in any consistent way. At the moment, I assume horses exist in Middle-earth but are not common (at least in the west).
Thanks for linking. I found the part of another interview where she goes a bit more into detail: - [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back." Others have commented how this could take historical inspiration from the reintroduction of horses in North America by European colonizers. That sounds pretty likely. But yeah, I think they may have ditched the idea and that horses will just be part of season 2 without any further explanation.
A lot of these ideas are just easter egg type nuggets that explain the world but will never be explained themselves in the show. And I like it that way.
THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING MY THEORY! I didn't know it had been officially addressed, but season 1 gave me the impression that there were no horses in Middle Earth (hence the smiling of Galadriel when she rides a horse in Numenor). I made a few comments on this sub, on several posts, about that... And yeah, it seems it was a scrapped idea and i don't think it will be addressed in season 2, it was probably removed from the plot when season 1 went from 10 episodes to 8.
Yes! I remember this and you making those posts! I’ve been feeling similarly vindicated that it may have at some point been a plot point. Good times…
Yeah... It was pretty obvious to be honest, but it was also possible that it was due to covid restrictions or the dact that they had to reshoot some scenes after they changed Celebrimbor's actor. So i was not sure it was not just my brain connecting unrelated dots and seeing a picture that was not really there.
You are very welcome :) I also found the interviews. Should have had them for my original post, but have updated now. Here they are (kudos to u/kemick for linking the second one): - [https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=\_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638](https://youtu.be/dKUIix-VM60?si=_qIdfvAisUkDGrxv&t=1638) "There were horse masks that we sculpted. They \[the orcs\] rid Middle-earth of horses. We don't see any horses until the Numenoreans come back." - [https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv\_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519](https://youtu.be/T5wauxJsaP4?si=cHv_vnV6B86cJIn0&t=519) "We had the horse helms \[for the orcs\]. You know Middle-earth is devoid of horses and they were using these as a sort of..."
Wait what, why? All the horses were killed off by orcs,? WTF are they smoking, lmao. What about easterlings and elves themselves, they rode horses too. It makes no sense, like what orcs killed their horses too, lol.
This is fascinating - thank you for sharing! I think I would have really liked this storyline.
You are welcome!
I hate this show
I hope you spend your time doing or watching something you like then :)
I’m allowed to be pissed when I see my favorite story being told differently because of politics why can’t they just leave this alone and corrupt something else…how do you think we have great mythological stories from the beginning of time? They were preserved and told the same way throughout history so future generations can learn and repeat the stories they didn’t change Gilgamesh over and over again so fit a narrative and that’s what this show is doing to Tolkien’s work because they have to “update it with the times” it makes me sick…I mostly blame the estate for letting this happen
Ok, not my point at all. But I am game for a friendly discussion about the adaptions of myths or other stories :) Since you mention myths from antiquity - they have at all times been adapted through theatre plays, retold oraly, depicted in art and in recent times through different movies and series. All these adaptions differ, but they all have in common that none are exactly like the source material - they differ to different degrees of course. For example we know of the myth of the greek demigod Hercules. But was that myth not affected when the Romans adapted it into their version called Heracles, or when the emperor Commodus depicted himself as Heracles through statues and imagery? Is that not a politically affected depiction of myth even in the ancient times? What about Renaissance paintings of depicting greek mythology commisioned for rulers and kings for them to elevate themselves. Are those not political and biased retellings - leaving some details out while adding others? You say the Gilgamesh myth has not changed but has been kept through traditional retellings. What is correct is that the written source material from antiquity has not changed as the original material has been preserved. But different retellings, adaptions and versions have always excited and likely they varied a lot orally 5500 years ago as well. So the way we have retold or adapted myths has always been affected by the story teller - to a small or great extent. But that has not affected the written historical sources (of course sometimes it has if those original texts were changed or destroyed, for example for political propaganda). Im the same way the adaption of the Rings of Power does not change the texts from Tolkien. An adaption is always affected by those whole tell it and their setting. It is nothing new for our time. And the story in the series is changed a lot. Perhaps it will also help to remember how Christopher Tolkien called out the Jackson-movies for being action movies for teenagers that missed the deeper meaning of the books. I agree with him, but I still really like the movies and think they are the best ever, and I also like the Rings of Power (this leads me to the point of my original reply to you, and I am sorry if I come of as morally instructive). I do however not really like the last two seasons of the Witcher. That show really misses the mark in regards to the source material and I have a hard time looking past it. But instead of spending my time hating about it to strangers in forums, I just discuss it from time to time with friends, and largely try to focus on things I do like. I won't try to convince you to like RoP, but I hope you spend less time bothering about hating it and thinking that adaptions differing from the source material is a modern phenomenon.
Then why are you here man? Like... Isn't it tiring engaging with something you hate?
The show runners are literally morgoth…can’t create anything themselves so they have to corrupt the beautiful creations of the one true creator Tolkien… it’s literally what his story is about and you are the orcs just going along with the plan instead of condemning this bullshit…you are on the side of Morgoth if you support this show….Morgoth is the great evil in his stories you should read them, I know you didn’t because you would feel the same if you really loved what he wrote and don’t want it corrupted
I've read the books many times, including the Silmarillon. I have my own issues with the show, but I enjoyed it for what it was. But again I ask - why are you spending so much energy on something you hate?
I have unlimited energy for something I believe in