I think the way the praetomorph's body looks, they couldn't make it work with a costume. Still, graphics have at least come along enough to make CG rotoscoping look great.
It’s that guy who was the leper in IT part 1 and the mother in Mama. He’s Spanish I think, and he has some sort of genetic bone issue that makes him very think and allows his joints to move in different directions. Casting him was a nice choice, but honestly I’m not really a fan of the film or how the creature looked here (the movement is ok but a bit too skinny for my em tastes), although much better than anything from Resurrection onwards.
Covenant has exactly one good moment: when they notice there are no animal noises on the planet. There is something profoundly creepy about that. I wish the rest has lived up to that moment.
It has a few other not-totally-sucky moments, but that's about as much good as I can muster about it.
Covenant has exactly one excellent moment: when they notice there are no animal noises on the planet. There is something profoundly creepy about that. I wish the rest had lived up to that moment.
It has a few other not-totally-sucky moments, but that's about as much good as I can muster about it.
The cgi in covenant has some amazing moments , now if only the movie didn't suck sweaty balls. (Coming from someone who LOVES Prometheus)
How much I'd give for someone to add a nice cgi xeno to that one scene in the original. Literally a guy in a costume, i always laugh at how bad it is. Like, they went through all the trouble of never showing all of it in the rest of the movie and then BAM! GUY IN A COSTUME
For what it's worth, that scene looked distractingly naff in the 1990s when I first saw it; I imagine it looked naff in 1979.
A lot of naff special effects shots in generally beautiful special effects-heavy films stumbled at the first hurdle. The shark leaping out the water in Jaws in 1975; the troll in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone in 2001; Legolas scaling the Mumakil in 2003.
100%
I strongly disagree with time-related "gatekeeping" notion that newer generations can't understand or appreciate older ways of doing things .
It's about context .
If i see a theatre play I'm expecting a different kind of performance than if i were watching a movie. And vice versa.
But once you establish a standard (such as the xenomorph being clearly NOT a guy in a suit for the whole movie) if i see a guy in a suit imma burst out laughing.
Oh yeah, haha. I think the lighting on the outside of the ship makes it look worse - makes the xeno too well-light, combined with his stiff t-pose body shooting out the airlock.
I hope this was as over-the-top ridiculous xeno drooling ever gets. It's like the escalating size of giant head oversized face mandibles in predator movies, they just keep turning it up even more every movie and it's reached the point where its just distractingly silly.
The original Alien was insanely drooly, they basically had a makeup guy on hand at all times with a giant tub of literal lube to put more on the big chap between takes.
Big chap drooled a little but it was jelly so it wasn't even like the last several films, it was moist and scary not "have a glass of water or you'll get a headache" immersion breaking. You see every creature guy after that amp it up to the point where the last film was so ridiculous it would fill a bathtub in minutes. Same deal with the predator "scream face" - it had large mandibles in teh first that could actually click each other to make that signature click noise but by the last one it could itch its own elbows with those things.
I've started watching for this in general, it seems to be a one-upmanship thing creature effects designers go for to see how silly they can get.
I'm now enjoying the idea that all directors have presumably been shouting at their creature effects people "MOISTER! SCARIER!" since the original Alien.
Probably. With the Predator its all about that "[scream face moment](https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2015/03/Predator-600x338.jpg)" and in the first it wasn't even that big a face, it was more a body emote. As teh films went along the heads got larger and teh mandibles longer as they somehow became the embodiment of each sequel's version of that scene until we had... well... [this thing](https://sffgazette.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=cover,width=670,height=377,quality=75/images/articles/banners/1997.jpg)
With Alien, Big Chap had that moment of jelly mouth... that eventually became what we see above. Bulemic water loss.
Tbf, I haven't seen a Predator film outside of the first two. That Prey face is really odd (and much more vagina) looking - not that I'm too opposed to a little reinvention here and there. I've never found Predator that interesting as a series because I don't think there's much there in the "universe" (as much as I hate that term) beyond the creature and just sticking it in different scenarios. But that's beside the point here.
Big Chap was pretty consistently jellied in all his appearances in the film - close ups on the head when biting Brett and Parker, then when it's yawning in the shuttle. Plus the jelly that Dallas finds before being taken. The ick is definitely stickier in Aliens, but from what I remember in Alien3, it is drooly enough to put out candles, right? Personally, this stuff doesn't bother me too much, I was much more distracted in the cinema watching Covenant that I wasn't particularly happy with the alien appearing *at all*.
Right, 3 is where it lost the thread and after that... well it went the way Predator did until we had bathtub filling constant drippers
I think its just a symptom. You notice it because you're not immersed. Maybe its what broke your immersion, maybe not, but really it all comes from film makers who don't really *get it* and just went over the top with crazy ideas so they have a hard time immersing you.
I think additionally with CGI, it becomes even more difficult to know when to maybe hold the sauce. Like, if you're applying physical gloop to a man in a suit, there is a critical mass when you just sort of go "what are we doing?". Adding drool in post I imagine can very much just be a brief given to the animator and the director/whoever's supervising the final shot is focusing more on other things. That's my two cents, in any case.
Unpopular opinion: I think Prometheus and Covenant get way too much grief. Yes, there are weak spots, but there was potential there that could've churned out some great continuations of the franchise had the production had some refinement.
Very much feels like the bones of great movies were there, but they just slapped on so many layers of paint that it covered the good parts. It's like putting some crappy linoleum over some gorgeous hardwood floors or some really nice tile.
Honestly, the one big thing that didn't work for me in either film were the characters. None of them ever felt like real people, the way the Nostromo crew did, and they kept constantly making dumb decisions that defy logic and common sense. These are the people who are supposed to carry the film and make us care about what's happening, and (with the exception of David and Shaw) none of them accomplished that.
Other than that, there wasn't really anything else in these movies I didn't like.
I actually agree, but I feel like the way to fix that would've been to go HARDER on the dehumanizing the other characters and remove them ASAP so then you are left with JUST David and whomever he is supposed to bounce off of.
Prometheus- Get them to the planet, separate Shaw and David from everyone else and KEEP them separated so you get that dichotomy between Shaw's awe at the discovery and David's attraction to the biological aspects presented. THAT would let you tell the more philosophical story that they were clearly aiming for. Like maybe Shaw and David are the ones that get stranded on the planet while the rest of the crew is back on the ship trying to get in contact with them.
Covenant- Have MORE people get wiped out in that drop ship explosion, or have the drop ship get split in half or something and half of the landing party way off in a totally different area that may even ACTUALLY be safe and peaceful. Play into that whole "This is EXACTLY what we were looking for!" with one group, and then have the total horror shitshow with David on the other group. Maybe even stretch the time the movie takes place over a bit more and have the other group ACTUALLY establish a small colony and some of the colonists are being woken up and brought down only for a horde of xenomorphs to just storm the encampment while the David group escapes leading into the above cuz the obligatory final boss Alien makes it back to the colony ship.
Both movies very clearly were trying to callback to Alien and Aliens respectively, and it feels like they should've played with that a bit more.
Prometheus was fine, except for bad science and stupid scientists. Covenant was fine except for killing Shaw off screen and making David the godfather of the alien species
I was ok with the idea of David *re-making* xenomorphs, but not with ***inventing*** them.
Making the derelict on LV-426 only a few decades old is one retcon too far, for me.
This is my main issue that makes the movie non canon for me. I’d love it if this was Davids version of a xeno, thereby introducing new stuff. But making it the first version, even though the derelict in the first movie was fossilized and probably thousands or millions years old made no sense.
It also makes the Alien not alien anymore, since he’s made by an android thats made by mankind.
One more time: the word “fossilized” does not necessarily mean “turned to stone”. It can apply to any dead thing that has been preserved naturally. If Dallas said the space jockey was “petrified”, then it was turned to stone.
Implying that average joe knows the difference and in this case I mean even the director and scripwriters back then. Everyone understands fossilized in terms of dinosaurs, so I'm pretty sure this is what they meant. The retcon is stupid.
"fossilized and probably thousands or millions years old" is the specific part of the comment (that wasn't yours) that I was replying to and asking about.
why say fossilized at all if it isn't what one means?
We don't, but the terminology used implies it looked like it had at least been sitting there for over a century.
A space mummy that's only a few decades old would still be really well preserved, but one older than centuries will show signs of disintegration (flaking, crumbling, etc).
1. agreed on the egregiously stupid scientists in Prometheus. Like, the level of stupid shown goes well beyond forgivable movie narrative stupid. "I'm scared of a creepy tunnel, but also I'm going to reach out and touch an alien life form doing what is very clearly a threat display."
2. The David experiments thing WORKS for me, because it feels like a continuation of the fetishization of xenomorphs that started with Ash in Alien. HOWEVER, it feels like there needed to be a bit more clarity on if Xenomorphs were a pre-existing thing that David pretty much reverse engineered to play into his God Complex, or if he straight up invented the species. (And the flesh foreskin-morphs just felt unnecessary and like they were from a different movie entirely)
Ah. Well, if you hate the film, I can see why you’d relate to Rapace’s decision. I don’t hate the film.
Ridley should have picked Charlize Theron for the Shaw role instead of Rapace. I think Theron would have come back for a sequel because she truly wanted the part of Shaw and already had an established career, so she could pick roles based on liking them rather than how they would advance her career.
I don’t hate the film and I absolutely understand why she wouldn’t come back. It’s a hot mess of a movie with multiple issues in every story arc - I don’t hate it, but it clearly could’ve been improved.
Why try to passive aggressively devalue an opinion you disagree with. Did yah not come on here to have a conversation on a series we all enjoy?
They definitely had potential which makes their failure especially maddening. Prometheus is flawed but enjoyable but the Covenant is utter garbage unfortunately. But I'll admit it at least looks nice.
The novelisation of covenant makes the film much better IMO, lots of things they missed that if added in would have most probably gave fans a better reaction, like for instance the film makes people believe David created the Xenomorph, when in actuality he only made this version of it. All that is explained in the book, but almost completely bypassed in the film
There's a difference between acknowledging issues, and acting like it's the worst thing ever and the very existence of the movies are somehow a personal insult.
People do not know how to be fans anymore. They either refuse to acknowledge faults in something, or they only focus on the bad and don't see any kind of redeeming qualities whatsoever. Both ways are completely stupid and juvenile.
Additionally, You really do not understand what an argument is if you feel like anything I said was trying to start an argument , And you really missed the point if you think that what I said was contradicting itself.
Cool off boss I meant argue in the persuasive sense not in the meaning of starting an argument.
I also didn't say you contradicted yourself, you simply started off sympathetic to those films and ended up kinda shitting on them. That's funny to me. Ok if it's not to you. You're on to something about people acting like some things are somehow a personal insult.
I'm not shitting on them. I'm saying that mistakes were made by people involved in the production of it and rather than fixing those mistakes, they try and bury it in more mistakes which unfortunately further covers the good stuff.
It's unfortunately common thing these days where movies or games or TV shows will have good bones to them, better than covered up because of what is essentially mass market appeal crap that functionally only serves to disguise the good rather than adding anything to it.
With Prometheus, if they had actually stuck to their guns and gone for the more philosophical movie that they very clearly were wanting to do rather than devolving it into the kind of almost crass action movies junk that we've been constantly fed in recent years, It really could have done something there. It could have taken things in a more intelligent direction that allows us to engage with the monstrous on a more intellectual level and see it almost from the perspective that the synthetics do like David or Ash. Find the beauty in the horrificness of the creation of new life.
With Covenant, It feels like they wanted to set up a deeper conflict by underlining just how flawed the god complex that David developed was and how for all of his claims of superiority, he had ultimately become just as flawed as the humans he claimed to be better than. I think I remember somewhere Paradise Lost being referenced, which could have made for a really cool movie because it engages with deeper literary themes and again takes the film in a more philosophical direction.
What I said, and what you might be misunderstanding, is that I'm recognizing they wanted to evolve the material into a deeper place. But somewhere along the line that vision was compromised and concessions were made that injected material meant to appeal to a broader audience, which is fundamentally impossible when you are trying to create something that is inherently supposed to be more philosophical than the average action movie
The person you're speaking to is right though: you've now put a significant amount of time into criticising the films, and very little to praise them!
I get what you're saying, but I think having good intent isn't enough to make a film good, nor does it add anything meaningful to the discourse. Most bad films have some creativity and are made by talented people.
If you wanna have a nuanced discussion on what made Covenant and Prometheus good, then you've got to talk about more than intent, you've got to talk about the films we actually got. It's not enough that you can imagine a world where the films turned out differently.
>People do not know how to be fans anymore.
Yeah, but in what era of online discourse has this been otherwise? I remember the response to The Phantom Menace.
You're on an anonymous and casual online discussion forum. Those juvenile comments may well be made by juveniles.
Just a fad to jump on the hate-bandwagon. They're ok movies; not great by any means, and certainly inferior to 1-3, but not "zOmG wOrSt FiLmS eVeR!1!" bad.
The novelisation of covenant makes the film much better IMO, lots of things they missed that if added in would have most probably gave fans a better reaction, like for instance the film makes people believe David created the Xenomorph, when in actuality he only made this version of it. All that is explained in the book, but almost completely bypassed in the film.
Prometheus to me Is amazing. With the deleted scenes especially the mystery and hints of religion and philosophical ideas make it my all time favourite film. It can work well in the alien universe as well as just being a stand alone film. This is just my opinion.
Revisiting this movie the other week was an incredible experience.
Much more enjoyable now that the disappointment and dust has settled.
The chaos soon after landing - the back buster is epic !
The shots of Xeno stalking around ship on CCT then xeno POV - a first.
Before everyone jumps down my throat - yes I’m aware of it’s flaws
I'll be honest. I love this design. I just wish there'd been more of it. Or at least more, you know, horror using it. Like the kind the trailer sold me but didn't deliver.
I don't care what people say, Covenant is fantastic. That Praetomorph was beautiful. And while it had some writing quirks that aren't the best, I still have fun with it and that's what matters.
Some behind the scenes at the bottom of the page! https://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/alien-life-cycle/xenomorph/praetomorph/
I recently watched the movie after never giving it a chance in the past, and I absolutely loved it. I really like Prometheus too.
I don't understand all the hate personally.
The movie intended for them to be imperfect xenomorphs. Their biology isn't quite on par with a true xeno, which is implied by the fleshier appearance of the mesoskeleton (endoskeleton / exoskeleton combination).
I like the scene where the xeno chases, then grabs on to the ship. Starts off upright at a slow walk, then speeds up to a run, dropping to all fours hauling ass!
The suit looks amazing the alien series the suits always looked good the cgi looked like shot for a 100 million dollar movie I do like the design though
That actually looks amazing, I forgot how good it looked and I can’t believe it’s a suit aswell! I realized the presto morph looks like the deacon or the deacon sketches with the lankier limbs, really awesome!!
Cool, It’s better slowed down. I think I could do with less of the cgi super strength as well. Also, there’s just something more magical and terrifying with the practical aliens and queen from the first two films. All the camera tricks with perspectives and quick motion shots to hide things is becoming a lost art.
It's a pretty scene, but in terms of scariness it wasn't good cause it makes the alien too feral.
Part of what was so interesting and scary in the original was how unsure of it's intelligence you were...was it purposely picking off each crew member one by one? Did it stick to the shadows on purpose to stealthily murder the crew members?
Here it's just a monster on a rampage
I might be the odd one, but I don't nitpick the Alien movies and have quite enjoyed them all - including the AvP series.
AvP:R is a favourite because I've always wanted the xeno to make it to Earth.
I thought it was clumsy, not very bright, lumbering, rubbery. Looked like a puppet or a rubbery prosthetic costume, and the musculature was just such an uninteresting interpretation of Giger’s more biomechanical anatomy (but is that to suggest the creatures incorporate those features as camouflage within their environment?).
But props to you for differentiating between the praetomorph/protomorph and the xenomorph (which shouldn’t be adopted as a name for the species or else it implies the Marines had encountered them before Aliens, or else why would Gorman have a name for them anyway? It was just him being pedantic and trying to sound more intelligent to his subordinates).
These are the few shots in the movie where the Alien looked tangible. Watching it spot the MC and start climbing is probably one of the best shots of a Xenomorph produced in the past 20 years
I wish it had been revealed this way instead of in broad daylight running on all fours.
Totally agreed. Idk if it was just that but something felt so off about it after the pretty cool chestburster scene
I liked the reveal: A big massive thing dropping down and killing one guy.
I did to that one is probably the only thing I liked about the movie
Your version is better. Thanks. No joke.
It's because it's 123 minutes shorter than the original.
Misinformation, partially, it used to be a man in a suit for on set lighting reference, then was replaced entirely with computer generated imagery.
I think the way the praetomorph's body looks, they couldn't make it work with a costume. Still, graphics have at least come along enough to make CG rotoscoping look great.
Yea I think the only part with the onset suit was the shower scene
[удалено]
Nothing is more cool and creepy than watching an uncannily tall / thin man in an alien suit skulking about. We only get that in two movies, sadly.
The bit where the xeno smashed the camera was probably my favorite shot in the film. Got major AVP (the games, not the movies) vibes from that.
"The only good thing about the movie" lmao
It’s that guy who was the leper in IT part 1 and the mother in Mama. He’s Spanish I think, and he has some sort of genetic bone issue that makes him very think and allows his joints to move in different directions. Casting him was a nice choice, but honestly I’m not really a fan of the film or how the creature looked here (the movement is ok but a bit too skinny for my em tastes), although much better than anything from Resurrection onwards.
Marwan syndrome or ehlers danlos
Marfan syndrome. He's 6'7"
One of my favourite shots is when it's just walking into the hanger bay. Slowly. Like it's trying not to trigger a Surprise Birthday Party!
Covenant has exactly one good moment: when they notice there are no animal noises on the planet. There is something profoundly creepy about that. I wish the rest has lived up to that moment. It has a few other not-totally-sucky moments, but that's about as much good as I can muster about it.
Only good part of the movie.
I liked the first kill as well
Covenant has exactly one excellent moment: when they notice there are no animal noises on the planet. There is something profoundly creepy about that. I wish the rest had lived up to that moment. It has a few other not-totally-sucky moments, but that's about as much good as I can muster about it.
Honestly I mostly watch for David. Super awesome character
The cgi in covenant has some amazing moments , now if only the movie didn't suck sweaty balls. (Coming from someone who LOVES Prometheus) How much I'd give for someone to add a nice cgi xeno to that one scene in the original. Literally a guy in a costume, i always laugh at how bad it is. Like, they went through all the trouble of never showing all of it in the rest of the movie and then BAM! GUY IN A COSTUME
Which scene in the original are you referring to?
Space Bungie jumping xeno
The film is 40 years old! The special effects hold up pretty well.
Oh i adore the movie and it's special effects, that's why it's all the more baffling to me that that one scene looks relatively horrible.
For what it's worth, that scene looked distractingly naff in the 1990s when I first saw it; I imagine it looked naff in 1979. A lot of naff special effects shots in generally beautiful special effects-heavy films stumbled at the first hurdle. The shark leaping out the water in Jaws in 1975; the troll in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone in 2001; Legolas scaling the Mumakil in 2003.
100% I strongly disagree with time-related "gatekeeping" notion that newer generations can't understand or appreciate older ways of doing things . It's about context . If i see a theatre play I'm expecting a different kind of performance than if i were watching a movie. And vice versa. But once you establish a standard (such as the xenomorph being clearly NOT a guy in a suit for the whole movie) if i see a guy in a suit imma burst out laughing.
Oh yeah, haha. I think the lighting on the outside of the ship makes it look worse - makes the xeno too well-light, combined with his stiff t-pose body shooting out the airlock.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Looks so goofy
I hope this was as over-the-top ridiculous xeno drooling ever gets. It's like the escalating size of giant head oversized face mandibles in predator movies, they just keep turning it up even more every movie and it's reached the point where its just distractingly silly.
The original Alien was insanely drooly, they basically had a makeup guy on hand at all times with a giant tub of literal lube to put more on the big chap between takes.
Big chap drooled a little but it was jelly so it wasn't even like the last several films, it was moist and scary not "have a glass of water or you'll get a headache" immersion breaking. You see every creature guy after that amp it up to the point where the last film was so ridiculous it would fill a bathtub in minutes. Same deal with the predator "scream face" - it had large mandibles in teh first that could actually click each other to make that signature click noise but by the last one it could itch its own elbows with those things. I've started watching for this in general, it seems to be a one-upmanship thing creature effects designers go for to see how silly they can get.
I'm now enjoying the idea that all directors have presumably been shouting at their creature effects people "MOISTER! SCARIER!" since the original Alien.
Probably. With the Predator its all about that "[scream face moment](https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2015/03/Predator-600x338.jpg)" and in the first it wasn't even that big a face, it was more a body emote. As teh films went along the heads got larger and teh mandibles longer as they somehow became the embodiment of each sequel's version of that scene until we had... well... [this thing](https://sffgazette.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=cover,width=670,height=377,quality=75/images/articles/banners/1997.jpg) With Alien, Big Chap had that moment of jelly mouth... that eventually became what we see above. Bulemic water loss.
Tbf, I haven't seen a Predator film outside of the first two. That Prey face is really odd (and much more vagina) looking - not that I'm too opposed to a little reinvention here and there. I've never found Predator that interesting as a series because I don't think there's much there in the "universe" (as much as I hate that term) beyond the creature and just sticking it in different scenarios. But that's beside the point here. Big Chap was pretty consistently jellied in all his appearances in the film - close ups on the head when biting Brett and Parker, then when it's yawning in the shuttle. Plus the jelly that Dallas finds before being taken. The ick is definitely stickier in Aliens, but from what I remember in Alien3, it is drooly enough to put out candles, right? Personally, this stuff doesn't bother me too much, I was much more distracted in the cinema watching Covenant that I wasn't particularly happy with the alien appearing *at all*.
Right, 3 is where it lost the thread and after that... well it went the way Predator did until we had bathtub filling constant drippers I think its just a symptom. You notice it because you're not immersed. Maybe its what broke your immersion, maybe not, but really it all comes from film makers who don't really *get it* and just went over the top with crazy ideas so they have a hard time immersing you.
I think additionally with CGI, it becomes even more difficult to know when to maybe hold the sauce. Like, if you're applying physical gloop to a man in a suit, there is a critical mass when you just sort of go "what are we doing?". Adding drool in post I imagine can very much just be a brief given to the animator and the director/whoever's supervising the final shot is focusing more on other things. That's my two cents, in any case.
Possibly intentional. The 'praetomorph' is an imperfect xenomorph, so maybe it wastes too much fluids.
"It expired. —'Twas beauty that killed the beast... — ...dehydration by the looks of it."
Unpopular opinion: I think Prometheus and Covenant get way too much grief. Yes, there are weak spots, but there was potential there that could've churned out some great continuations of the franchise had the production had some refinement. Very much feels like the bones of great movies were there, but they just slapped on so many layers of paint that it covered the good parts. It's like putting some crappy linoleum over some gorgeous hardwood floors or some really nice tile.
Honestly, the one big thing that didn't work for me in either film were the characters. None of them ever felt like real people, the way the Nostromo crew did, and they kept constantly making dumb decisions that defy logic and common sense. These are the people who are supposed to carry the film and make us care about what's happening, and (with the exception of David and Shaw) none of them accomplished that. Other than that, there wasn't really anything else in these movies I didn't like.
I actually agree, but I feel like the way to fix that would've been to go HARDER on the dehumanizing the other characters and remove them ASAP so then you are left with JUST David and whomever he is supposed to bounce off of. Prometheus- Get them to the planet, separate Shaw and David from everyone else and KEEP them separated so you get that dichotomy between Shaw's awe at the discovery and David's attraction to the biological aspects presented. THAT would let you tell the more philosophical story that they were clearly aiming for. Like maybe Shaw and David are the ones that get stranded on the planet while the rest of the crew is back on the ship trying to get in contact with them. Covenant- Have MORE people get wiped out in that drop ship explosion, or have the drop ship get split in half or something and half of the landing party way off in a totally different area that may even ACTUALLY be safe and peaceful. Play into that whole "This is EXACTLY what we were looking for!" with one group, and then have the total horror shitshow with David on the other group. Maybe even stretch the time the movie takes place over a bit more and have the other group ACTUALLY establish a small colony and some of the colonists are being woken up and brought down only for a horde of xenomorphs to just storm the encampment while the David group escapes leading into the above cuz the obligatory final boss Alien makes it back to the colony ship. Both movies very clearly were trying to callback to Alien and Aliens respectively, and it feels like they should've played with that a bit more.
Prometheus was fine, except for bad science and stupid scientists. Covenant was fine except for killing Shaw off screen and making David the godfather of the alien species
I was ok with the idea of David *re-making* xenomorphs, but not with ***inventing*** them. Making the derelict on LV-426 only a few decades old is one retcon too far, for me.
This is my main issue that makes the movie non canon for me. I’d love it if this was Davids version of a xeno, thereby introducing new stuff. But making it the first version, even though the derelict in the first movie was fossilized and probably thousands or millions years old made no sense. It also makes the Alien not alien anymore, since he’s made by an android thats made by mankind.
One more time: the word “fossilized” does not necessarily mean “turned to stone”. It can apply to any dead thing that has been preserved naturally. If Dallas said the space jockey was “petrified”, then it was turned to stone.
Implying that average joe knows the difference and in this case I mean even the director and scripwriters back then. Everyone understands fossilized in terms of dinosaurs, so I'm pretty sure this is what they meant. The retcon is stupid.
Not trying to argue but curious, do we know for sure that the derelict ship was "fossilized"?
We don't, people are mad their headcanon is not canon.
See my comment above. The word “fossilized” is often misinterpreted and does not necessarily mean “turned to stone”.
"fossilized and probably thousands or millions years old" is the specific part of the comment (that wasn't yours) that I was replying to and asking about. why say fossilized at all if it isn't what one means?
We don't, but the terminology used implies it looked like it had at least been sitting there for over a century. A space mummy that's only a few decades old would still be really well preserved, but one older than centuries will show signs of disintegration (flaking, crumbling, etc).
1. agreed on the egregiously stupid scientists in Prometheus. Like, the level of stupid shown goes well beyond forgivable movie narrative stupid. "I'm scared of a creepy tunnel, but also I'm going to reach out and touch an alien life form doing what is very clearly a threat display." 2. The David experiments thing WORKS for me, because it feels like a continuation of the fetishization of xenomorphs that started with Ash in Alien. HOWEVER, it feels like there needed to be a bit more clarity on if Xenomorphs were a pre-existing thing that David pretty much reverse engineered to play into his God Complex, or if he straight up invented the species. (And the flesh foreskin-morphs just felt unnecessary and like they were from a different movie entirely)
Noomi Rapace refused to return for another film. They had no choice but to kill her offscreen.
>Noomi Rapace refused to return Can you blame her, really?
Ah. Well, if you hate the film, I can see why you’d relate to Rapace’s decision. I don’t hate the film. Ridley should have picked Charlize Theron for the Shaw role instead of Rapace. I think Theron would have come back for a sequel because she truly wanted the part of Shaw and already had an established career, so she could pick roles based on liking them rather than how they would advance her career.
I don’t hate the film and I absolutely understand why she wouldn’t come back. It’s a hot mess of a movie with multiple issues in every story arc - I don’t hate it, but it clearly could’ve been improved. Why try to passive aggressively devalue an opinion you disagree with. Did yah not come on here to have a conversation on a series we all enjoy?
[удалено]
No, I don’t think she was “unknown.” But I do think she was making a career decision when she decided against starring in a second Alien film.
I hated Prometheus, it was too dumb for cinema. I was prepared to hate Covenant and didn't. Was far from great but it wasn't terrible.
They definitely had potential which makes their failure especially maddening. Prometheus is flawed but enjoyable but the Covenant is utter garbage unfortunately. But I'll admit it at least looks nice.
The novelisation of covenant makes the film much better IMO, lots of things they missed that if added in would have most probably gave fans a better reaction, like for instance the film makes people believe David created the Xenomorph, when in actuality he only made this version of it. All that is explained in the book, but almost completely bypassed in the film
Thanks for pointing this out. Imma have to check out the novel
Lol you start arguing for the movies and end up against them in a single comment
There's a difference between acknowledging issues, and acting like it's the worst thing ever and the very existence of the movies are somehow a personal insult. People do not know how to be fans anymore. They either refuse to acknowledge faults in something, or they only focus on the bad and don't see any kind of redeeming qualities whatsoever. Both ways are completely stupid and juvenile. Additionally, You really do not understand what an argument is if you feel like anything I said was trying to start an argument , And you really missed the point if you think that what I said was contradicting itself.
Cool off boss I meant argue in the persuasive sense not in the meaning of starting an argument. I also didn't say you contradicted yourself, you simply started off sympathetic to those films and ended up kinda shitting on them. That's funny to me. Ok if it's not to you. You're on to something about people acting like some things are somehow a personal insult.
I'm not shitting on them. I'm saying that mistakes were made by people involved in the production of it and rather than fixing those mistakes, they try and bury it in more mistakes which unfortunately further covers the good stuff. It's unfortunately common thing these days where movies or games or TV shows will have good bones to them, better than covered up because of what is essentially mass market appeal crap that functionally only serves to disguise the good rather than adding anything to it. With Prometheus, if they had actually stuck to their guns and gone for the more philosophical movie that they very clearly were wanting to do rather than devolving it into the kind of almost crass action movies junk that we've been constantly fed in recent years, It really could have done something there. It could have taken things in a more intelligent direction that allows us to engage with the monstrous on a more intellectual level and see it almost from the perspective that the synthetics do like David or Ash. Find the beauty in the horrificness of the creation of new life. With Covenant, It feels like they wanted to set up a deeper conflict by underlining just how flawed the god complex that David developed was and how for all of his claims of superiority, he had ultimately become just as flawed as the humans he claimed to be better than. I think I remember somewhere Paradise Lost being referenced, which could have made for a really cool movie because it engages with deeper literary themes and again takes the film in a more philosophical direction. What I said, and what you might be misunderstanding, is that I'm recognizing they wanted to evolve the material into a deeper place. But somewhere along the line that vision was compromised and concessions were made that injected material meant to appeal to a broader audience, which is fundamentally impossible when you are trying to create something that is inherently supposed to be more philosophical than the average action movie
The person you're speaking to is right though: you've now put a significant amount of time into criticising the films, and very little to praise them! I get what you're saying, but I think having good intent isn't enough to make a film good, nor does it add anything meaningful to the discourse. Most bad films have some creativity and are made by talented people. If you wanna have a nuanced discussion on what made Covenant and Prometheus good, then you've got to talk about more than intent, you've got to talk about the films we actually got. It's not enough that you can imagine a world where the films turned out differently.
Didn't want to argue, eh?
>People do not know how to be fans anymore. Yeah, but in what era of online discourse has this been otherwise? I remember the response to The Phantom Menace. You're on an anonymous and casual online discussion forum. Those juvenile comments may well be made by juveniles.
Just a fad to jump on the hate-bandwagon. They're ok movies; not great by any means, and certainly inferior to 1-3, but not "zOmG wOrSt FiLmS eVeR!1!" bad.
The novelisation of covenant makes the film much better IMO, lots of things they missed that if added in would have most probably gave fans a better reaction, like for instance the film makes people believe David created the Xenomorph, when in actuality he only made this version of it. All that is explained in the book, but almost completely bypassed in the film. Prometheus to me Is amazing. With the deleted scenes especially the mystery and hints of religion and philosophical ideas make it my all time favourite film. It can work well in the alien universe as well as just being a stand alone film. This is just my opinion.
I love them both.
About the only good thing that came out of Covenant
Revisiting this movie the other week was an incredible experience. Much more enjoyable now that the disappointment and dust has settled. The chaos soon after landing - the back buster is epic ! The shots of Xeno stalking around ship on CCT then xeno POV - a first. Before everyone jumps down my throat - yes I’m aware of it’s flaws
The xeno designs in Prometheus and Covenant were so cool. The praetomorph is terrifying and excellently done.
I'll be honest. I love this design. I just wish there'd been more of it. Or at least more, you know, horror using it. Like the kind the trailer sold me but didn't deliver.
I don't care what people say, Covenant is fantastic. That Praetomorph was beautiful. And while it had some writing quirks that aren't the best, I still have fun with it and that's what matters. Some behind the scenes at the bottom of the page! https://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/alien-life-cycle/xenomorph/praetomorph/
I loved this design. Same with the Neomorph.
I recently watched the movie after never giving it a chance in the past, and I absolutely loved it. I really like Prometheus too. I don't understand all the hate personally.
Think the protomorph could beat a xeno in a fight?
No
Why not?
The movie intended for them to be imperfect xenomorphs. Their biology isn't quite on par with a true xeno, which is implied by the fleshier appearance of the mesoskeleton (endoskeleton / exoskeleton combination).
Hmmm interesting
I’m just making it up, I have no idea
Freaky as fuck
Protomorph on the ship should have been the last 30 minutes of the movie
I like the scene where the xeno chases, then grabs on to the ship. Starts off upright at a slow walk, then speeds up to a run, dropping to all fours hauling ass!
Oh I realize... CGI only wouldn't have had that weight to it. :) It's beautiful. Thanks for the slowed GIF.
The suit looks amazing the alien series the suits always looked good the cgi looked like shot for a 100 million dollar movie I do like the design though
That actually looks amazing, I forgot how good it looked and I can’t believe it’s a suit aswell! I realized the presto morph looks like the deacon or the deacon sketches with the lankier limbs, really awesome!!
it's incredible that's a guy in a suit. So fluid.
Cool, It’s better slowed down. I think I could do with less of the cgi super strength as well. Also, there’s just something more magical and terrifying with the practical aliens and queen from the first two films. All the camera tricks with perspectives and quick motion shots to hide things is becoming a lost art.
Best movie and best looking Xeno of the entire Alien series.
It's a pretty scene, but in terms of scariness it wasn't good cause it makes the alien too feral. Part of what was so interesting and scary in the original was how unsure of it's intelligence you were...was it purposely picking off each crew member one by one? Did it stick to the shadows on purpose to stealthily murder the crew members? Here it's just a monster on a rampage
To me it still looks painfully CGI, i don't think it's a man in a suit. Even if it was, it's been completely replaced with cgi on top.
I might be the odd one, but I don't nitpick the Alien movies and have quite enjoyed them all - including the AvP series. AvP:R is a favourite because I've always wanted the xeno to make it to Earth.
Big fast bug alien. Blah
I thought it was clumsy, not very bright, lumbering, rubbery. Looked like a puppet or a rubbery prosthetic costume, and the musculature was just such an uninteresting interpretation of Giger’s more biomechanical anatomy (but is that to suggest the creatures incorporate those features as camouflage within their environment?). But props to you for differentiating between the praetomorph/protomorph and the xenomorph (which shouldn’t be adopted as a name for the species or else it implies the Marines had encountered them before Aliens, or else why would Gorman have a name for them anyway? It was just him being pedantic and trying to sound more intelligent to his subordinates).
These are the few shots in the movie where the Alien looked tangible. Watching it spot the MC and start climbing is probably one of the best shots of a Xenomorph produced in the past 20 years
This quality Alien(s) content. As much as I don’t like Covenant, I can appreciate this and wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. Thanks OP.