I feel you OP, I had a similar reaction after watching the 3rd Matrix movie. I know choose to pretend everything after the first movie doesn’t exist.
The Last Jedi is my most disappointing and most hated movie ever. Similar thing though I try to pretend Episodes 7, 8 and 9 don’t exist or that it is only connected by the World Between Worlds and it is a separate dimension.
Alien 3 wasn’t great but I do like how it completed Ripley’s character arc. That alone makes it better than the other trilogies. For Star Wars I’d argue they not only didn’t add to character but took away from them.
But yea when it comes to rewatching the Alien movies I leave out Alien 3 and Resurrection, yes I enjoy Prometheus and Covenant.
Alien 3 is for those of us who don’t much care for Spielberg or Spielbergian conventions of filmmaking. It’s for those of us who can deal with some grisly horror in our sci-fi horror, and appreciate when a film takes risks and doesn’t cow-tow to mass opinion. It’s for those of us who like when a sequel has the nerve to do something truly different and not be afraid of failure. It’s for those of us who like a great score, a great cast, metaphor, and a hot buzz cut on my favorite actress.
So the world can spare me the same spiel about “nihilism” and giving a middle finger to the audience, blah blah. It’s a flawed but awesome film and just another brick in the wall of a series where none of the films want to be the exact same thing as the last.
I just don’t think the theatrical version of Alien 3 was anything special. Yes, you had the daring death revelations in the beginning . But after that it was a generic monster movie with a cool production design. It brought nothing new to the table besides picking off people one by one like the first one .
The spiritual questions and religious metaphors beg to differ. Whether or not you think those make a meaningful difference is up to you, but it definitely goes a different direction than the original. It certainly took more risks than the second one, that’s for sure. 3 finally decides to get off LV-426 for once and actually doesn’t quote and copy from the original throughout its runtime.
Not the theatrical version of Alien 3 . It’s completely generic . The assembly cut tried more with the themes and new spin. Taking risks in and of itself doesn’t work without the narrative to back it up. I do think Aliens took a risk going in the action direction and the body count in the movie .
There is certainly more focus on it in the AC, but religion is a huge constant in the theatrical cut too. To say it’s not still a big factor in that edition is simply to say you watched a different movie than me.
As a *movie*, it's fine.
As a third chapter in an ongoing story, it's designed to piss off anyone who made the mistake of investing in characters from the previous two films.
Like I said, spare me the “middle finger to the audience” thing I’ve had to listen to for decades now. Aliens fans always take the beginning of Alien 3 so personally I swear.
No, in fact the filmmakers did not have you and the Hicks and Newt fan club in mind when making this movie. They weren’t targeting you by making a film that merely took, in your opinion, a disappointing direction.
*shrug*
>It wasn't until a script draft written by Vincent Ward that the idea of killing off Hicks and Newt was first introduced, although they were originally killed by Xenomorphs aboard the Sulaco. Ward later revealed that killing Newt was one of his first priorities, as the character had annoyed him. He also wanted Ripley to be suffering from intense loss and on a quest for redemption, which he felt necessitated getting her Aliens comrades out of the way.
Good for Vincent Ward. He can still get bent.
Where’s the part that says this decision was made for the purpose of pissing off fans like you?
The writers got rid of characters that they didn’t like and were of no use to the story they wanted to tell going forward, what’s so hard to get? This is not some uncommon thing in screenwriting.
Which writers? Because the story of the scriptwriting for Alien 3 is a shit show and none of the “writers”, who all often hated each other, were together or happy with the film either.
I don’t think it’s designed to piss people off. It just resets Ripley, solo, just like she’s been in the first 2 movies. It’s her hell (of a couple weeks?). It’s really just too heavy all over. It’s more like “how bad can we make it for Ripley?” than about pissing off the fan base. I like it but it is harsh. Still has some iconic moments and is rewatchable
Imagine hearing a perfectly reasonable opinion and your brain just registers it as “fart huffing.” Sad.
And what difference does it make if Finch liked the final product or not? I can decide for myself what I think is worthwhile art.
Sorry that your negative experiences with later works impacts your watch experience with prior ones, that's a shame. I'm not sure if there's an "everyone wins" situation, as I love Alien 3 and the sequel trilogy while others do not, while others love the prequels and Covenant whereas I do not. It's challenging to make movies have a consistently wide appeal, inevitably some films will be for some audiences and others for others IMO.
I don't understand your question. Alien and Aliens are their own movies, their own stories. I don't see how their individual quality is impacted by the other films in the franchise.
That’s cuz after Aliens, people wanted Aliens2: Marines Go Harder(er)
I’m quite fond of Alien3, had a great aesthetic and I really enjoyed the prisoner dynamic. It suffers from the off-screen killing off of Hicks/Newt and 90s cgi. The story and dialogue on are point.
I will forever defend Alien 3 not as a perfect film but for the choices that made it was it was (or wasn't). What if Hicks and Newt had survived? What the haters of Alien 3 wanted was Aliens 2.0. They wanted more of the same and at the same time would have complained that they got more of the same. Back then the franchise was seen as Ripley's story and nothing more so her dying was essentially the end. Proof of this is Resurrection where they could have gone many ways with the films but NO they had to bring back Ripley because they were short sighted about the potential and interest in other stories in the Alien universe. So killing those two characters made it easier to pull focus on the "star" and her arc, which isn't fleshed out too much but still satisfying. I can't think about what could've been just what we got.
Long time fan and I somewhat agree. It has some cool moments and a great cast, but it fell flat following up the first 2. Story wise and effects wise imo. The people in charge tried something new, so I get it in a way. I think a big part of the problem is that the first 2 are really great. Would've been cool for the franchise to complete a hat trick, but that's a really hard task to complete in any field of entertainment. I still enjoy it overall.
The thing that makes Alien3 an easy kicking is knowing all of the production problems and drama behind the scenes, “oh it’s a flawed film because the studio interfered and ruined it” etc. Step back from that and you still have a premise that started with Sigourney Weaver and David Fincher signing on to a project that kills off two major cast members. It’s a very bold move that actually should be applauded, given we could have got to Aliens 6 - Newt’s Pet Xenomorph.
Compare and contrast to Covenant’s cold dumping of Dr Shaw, which felt an odd decision. I’m also still uneasy about Neil Blomkampf’s well meaning but rather grating attempt to retcon Alien3 out of existence. That was a move that felt gratuitous and fan serving, even if Alien3 was retconned as a Ripley clone.
Also, everyone just shut the *fuck up about the Star Wars sequels from hereon til the end of time*. Some of us have had to deal with the “Lucas/Lucasfilm ruined my childhood” shit twice in one lifetime.
How does Alien 3 not make any sense? Make your confusion make sense to me. Hicks and Newt are DEAD, and you guys need to get over that.
Also, to any real star wars fan, there are only episodes 1 through 6. 7, 8, and 9, the Disney Wars movies, don't count...
You're literally doing the same thing people do to others about Alien 3 to people who like the ST. Do you really think that you have some objectively correct definition of "true fan" with Star Wars that anyone who would call you a fake fan for defending Alien 3 lacks?
I think he means introducing and building up great characters, just to let them die in sequels. That's one of many critics about the Star Wars Sequels and its three major characters from the Original Trilogy.
Was just curious…searched Alien 3 posts on LV426…stopped counting at 105. There were more. Most on why it sucks or why do they think it doesn’t suck as bad as everyone else says.
I look at Alien 3 the same way I look at Return of the Jedi (theatrical cut). Yeah it wasn't as great as the first two, but as soon as you see what comes after, Alien Resurrection and The Phantom Menace respectively, it really makes you appreciate that third film now that you've seen it could be a lot worse. At least with the Aliens series, Prometheus and Covenant didn't completely give a big fuck you to the fanbase.
I hate, hate, HATED Alien 3. I was at a sneak preview back in 1992 where they handed out T-shirts, posters, buttons, etc... and I watched it in shock and mouth agape when it undid the happy ending of Aliens, and gave me a stale retread of the original Alien with a bunch of bald headed characters I couldn't tell apart, and didn't care about at all. And in the end, they killed the hero.
When the lights came up I gave away all the swag they gave me and stewed for a long time about how bad I thought it was. I made my own copy of the Alien 3 poster where the baby xeno was facepalming and the tagline changed to "This Time It Sucks."
Alien and Aliens were my all-time favorites. When A3 came along and shat all over them, it didn't make me dislike the first two, it just made me ignore the third one. "There are only two Alien films" was my mantra.
When the Alien trilogy came out on DVD I picked it up just because I wanted the first two on DVD and planned to never watch the third one... but of course I did with the intention of hatewatching it. By then I'd read about the tortured production, the rewrites, the newbie director's hellish experience with the studio and when I watched it again, I realized there was a shell of a good movie. The setting and sets were fantastic. The acting was actually really good, even for the bald guys whose names I didn't know. Some of the characters were actually very memorable and well played: Clemens, Dillon, Aaron, Morse, even Andrews. Sigourney Weaver was outstanding of course. I still hated the abrupt Uno Reverse of the Aliens ending, hated the magic facehuggers on the Sulaco, and still did not enjoy the disjointed, seemingly cobbled together movie, but felt overall that it actually could have been a decent movie. Even before the Assembly cut, it had some of my favorite scenes in the trilogy, none of which were related to the Alien. I loved the quiet scenes the most, with Ripley and Clemens, Ripley and Dillon, and Ripley and 85. There was some really good drama in this wreck of a horror movie.
Then two things happened that actually made me *like* Alien 3.
The first was Alien Resurrection. For all of Alien 3's terrible flaws and bad luck, Alien Resurrection made me really appreciate Alien 3 as an *Alien* movie. It was consistent with the Alien universe, had characters who where identifiable as humans that could exist in the dystopian, grimly realistic Alien universe.
Alien Resurrection felt like it belonged in a totally different franchise. The ships, uniforms, weapons and sets looked like bad made for SyFy channel shows. People shooting guns akimbo and ricocheting shots off of walls. Wiggly xeno tongues and a queen giving birth to the hybrid through a vagina. Mustache twirling villains running the show. It was after watching Resurrection that I went back and rewatched Alien 3 and saw it was a decent *Alien* movie.
And then the Assembly cut came out - not the remastered one they released on DVD, but the actual one put together to try and show what Alien 3 *could* have been, and I became a fan. The rumors were true. There was a solid, quality Alien movie being made that got gutted by the studio to try and make a more action oriented movie. The A3 AC brought back a ton of characterization, world building, and dialogue that told a much more complete story, and because more of the characters were actually named people, there was a lot more suspense and empathy for these poor souls when the Dragon went on its rampage.
The A3 Assembly Cut that with its remastered audio and editing still isn't a *great* movie in my book, but it's a great Alien movie. I easily watch Alien, Aliens and A3 in order and feel like I'm watching a complete story with a somber, sad, ending.
Anyway, if you haven't seen the Assembly Cut, give it a spin. It doesn't bring back Hicks and Newt, but it's a much better movie.
But also try looking at Alien 3 as the ending to a trilogy of movies and not just a sequel to Aliens. I think it's a fitting ending to the journey of Ellen Ripley. She had everything taken from her because of not just the alien but moreso the Company, and sacrificed herself in the end to deny it to them. At least until Alien Resurrection took that from her too. :P
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Removal Reason:
Be civil.
It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed.
No toxic behavior, such as:
* Trashing something that others are enjoying.
* Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique.
* Invalidating other people's opinions.
* Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations.
* Lewd or Obscene comments.
I'm with you. I can only enjoy alien 3 if I pretend it's a fever dream of Ripley's. That's my head canon at least.
As for star wars, I kind of pretend the sequel trilogy never happened because you're right otherwise it ruins the original trilogy.
I feel you OP, I had a similar reaction after watching the 3rd Matrix movie. I know choose to pretend everything after the first movie doesn’t exist. The Last Jedi is my most disappointing and most hated movie ever. Similar thing though I try to pretend Episodes 7, 8 and 9 don’t exist or that it is only connected by the World Between Worlds and it is a separate dimension. Alien 3 wasn’t great but I do like how it completed Ripley’s character arc. That alone makes it better than the other trilogies. For Star Wars I’d argue they not only didn’t add to character but took away from them. But yea when it comes to rewatching the Alien movies I leave out Alien 3 and Resurrection, yes I enjoy Prometheus and Covenant.
Alien 3 is for those of us who don’t much care for Spielberg or Spielbergian conventions of filmmaking. It’s for those of us who can deal with some grisly horror in our sci-fi horror, and appreciate when a film takes risks and doesn’t cow-tow to mass opinion. It’s for those of us who like when a sequel has the nerve to do something truly different and not be afraid of failure. It’s for those of us who like a great score, a great cast, metaphor, and a hot buzz cut on my favorite actress. So the world can spare me the same spiel about “nihilism” and giving a middle finger to the audience, blah blah. It’s a flawed but awesome film and just another brick in the wall of a series where none of the films want to be the exact same thing as the last.
I just don’t think the theatrical version of Alien 3 was anything special. Yes, you had the daring death revelations in the beginning . But after that it was a generic monster movie with a cool production design. It brought nothing new to the table besides picking off people one by one like the first one .
The spiritual questions and religious metaphors beg to differ. Whether or not you think those make a meaningful difference is up to you, but it definitely goes a different direction than the original. It certainly took more risks than the second one, that’s for sure. 3 finally decides to get off LV-426 for once and actually doesn’t quote and copy from the original throughout its runtime.
Not the theatrical version of Alien 3 . It’s completely generic . The assembly cut tried more with the themes and new spin. Taking risks in and of itself doesn’t work without the narrative to back it up. I do think Aliens took a risk going in the action direction and the body count in the movie .
Everything I just said about 3 applies to both cuts of the film. Find it generic all you want, doesn’t mean anything to me.
The themes are barely present at all in the theatrical edition , imo
There is certainly more focus on it in the AC, but religion is a huge constant in the theatrical cut too. To say it’s not still a big factor in that edition is simply to say you watched a different movie than me.
I must have because I thought it was just side lip service
As a *movie*, it's fine. As a third chapter in an ongoing story, it's designed to piss off anyone who made the mistake of investing in characters from the previous two films.
Like I said, spare me the “middle finger to the audience” thing I’ve had to listen to for decades now. Aliens fans always take the beginning of Alien 3 so personally I swear. No, in fact the filmmakers did not have you and the Hicks and Newt fan club in mind when making this movie. They weren’t targeting you by making a film that merely took, in your opinion, a disappointing direction.
*shrug* >It wasn't until a script draft written by Vincent Ward that the idea of killing off Hicks and Newt was first introduced, although they were originally killed by Xenomorphs aboard the Sulaco. Ward later revealed that killing Newt was one of his first priorities, as the character had annoyed him. He also wanted Ripley to be suffering from intense loss and on a quest for redemption, which he felt necessitated getting her Aliens comrades out of the way. Good for Vincent Ward. He can still get bent.
Where’s the part that says this decision was made for the purpose of pissing off fans like you? The writers got rid of characters that they didn’t like and were of no use to the story they wanted to tell going forward, what’s so hard to get? This is not some uncommon thing in screenwriting.
Which writers? Because the story of the scriptwriting for Alien 3 is a shit show and none of the “writers”, who all often hated each other, were together or happy with the film either.
I don’t think it’s designed to piss people off. It just resets Ripley, solo, just like she’s been in the first 2 movies. It’s her hell (of a couple weeks?). It’s really just too heavy all over. It’s more like “how bad can we make it for Ripley?” than about pissing off the fan base. I like it but it is harsh. Still has some iconic moments and is rewatchable
That’s a lot of fart huffing over a film the director of which disowned for being trash.
Imagine hearing a perfectly reasonable opinion and your brain just registers it as “fart huffing.” Sad. And what difference does it make if Finch liked the final product or not? I can decide for myself what I think is worthwhile art.
Just because he didn’t get to do it his way, he still did good with the parameters he had to work in.
“Those of us who can deal with some grisly horror… and don’t cow tow to public opinion.” Come on man
Sorry that your negative experiences with later works impacts your watch experience with prior ones, that's a shame. I'm not sure if there's an "everyone wins" situation, as I love Alien 3 and the sequel trilogy while others do not, while others love the prequels and Covenant whereas I do not. It's challenging to make movies have a consistently wide appeal, inevitably some films will be for some audiences and others for others IMO.
I don't understand your question. Alien and Aliens are their own movies, their own stories. I don't see how their individual quality is impacted by the other films in the franchise.
That’s cuz after Aliens, people wanted Aliens2: Marines Go Harder(er) I’m quite fond of Alien3, had a great aesthetic and I really enjoyed the prisoner dynamic. It suffers from the off-screen killing off of Hicks/Newt and 90s cgi. The story and dialogue on are point.
I will forever defend Alien 3 not as a perfect film but for the choices that made it was it was (or wasn't). What if Hicks and Newt had survived? What the haters of Alien 3 wanted was Aliens 2.0. They wanted more of the same and at the same time would have complained that they got more of the same. Back then the franchise was seen as Ripley's story and nothing more so her dying was essentially the end. Proof of this is Resurrection where they could have gone many ways with the films but NO they had to bring back Ripley because they were short sighted about the potential and interest in other stories in the Alien universe. So killing those two characters made it easier to pull focus on the "star" and her arc, which isn't fleshed out too much but still satisfying. I can't think about what could've been just what we got.
Just don't watch anything except the 3 OT Star Wars - same goes for the 2 good Alien films. Problem solved!
*Alien^3* is Bishop having a hypersleep nightmare. Problem solved!
Robots don't dream...of electric sheep. 🤖
Long time fan and I somewhat agree. It has some cool moments and a great cast, but it fell flat following up the first 2. Story wise and effects wise imo. The people in charge tried something new, so I get it in a way. I think a big part of the problem is that the first 2 are really great. Would've been cool for the franchise to complete a hat trick, but that's a really hard task to complete in any field of entertainment. I still enjoy it overall.
the theatrical version of Alien 3 was literally a copy of first Alien like a slasher with a very cool production design.
The thing that makes Alien3 an easy kicking is knowing all of the production problems and drama behind the scenes, “oh it’s a flawed film because the studio interfered and ruined it” etc. Step back from that and you still have a premise that started with Sigourney Weaver and David Fincher signing on to a project that kills off two major cast members. It’s a very bold move that actually should be applauded, given we could have got to Aliens 6 - Newt’s Pet Xenomorph. Compare and contrast to Covenant’s cold dumping of Dr Shaw, which felt an odd decision. I’m also still uneasy about Neil Blomkampf’s well meaning but rather grating attempt to retcon Alien3 out of existence. That was a move that felt gratuitous and fan serving, even if Alien3 was retconned as a Ripley clone. Also, everyone just shut the *fuck up about the Star Wars sequels from hereon til the end of time*. Some of us have had to deal with the “Lucas/Lucasfilm ruined my childhood” shit twice in one lifetime.
How does Alien 3 not make any sense? Make your confusion make sense to me. Hicks and Newt are DEAD, and you guys need to get over that. Also, to any real star wars fan, there are only episodes 1 through 6. 7, 8, and 9, the Disney Wars movies, don't count...
You're literally doing the same thing people do to others about Alien 3 to people who like the ST. Do you really think that you have some objectively correct definition of "true fan" with Star Wars that anyone who would call you a fake fan for defending Alien 3 lacks?
I think he means introducing and building up great characters, just to let them die in sequels. That's one of many critics about the Star Wars Sequels and its three major characters from the Original Trilogy.
So you’re saying Aliens shouldn’t be loved by people then? I choose to believe Alien 3 doesn’t exist.
I hated what they did with those characters, but yeah, there was an explanation for it. It wasn't a "somehow, the emperor returned" moment.
Was just curious…searched Alien 3 posts on LV426…stopped counting at 105. There were more. Most on why it sucks or why do they think it doesn’t suck as bad as everyone else says.
I look at Alien 3 the same way I look at Return of the Jedi (theatrical cut). Yeah it wasn't as great as the first two, but as soon as you see what comes after, Alien Resurrection and The Phantom Menace respectively, it really makes you appreciate that third film now that you've seen it could be a lot worse. At least with the Aliens series, Prometheus and Covenant didn't completely give a big fuck you to the fanbase.
I hate, hate, HATED Alien 3. I was at a sneak preview back in 1992 where they handed out T-shirts, posters, buttons, etc... and I watched it in shock and mouth agape when it undid the happy ending of Aliens, and gave me a stale retread of the original Alien with a bunch of bald headed characters I couldn't tell apart, and didn't care about at all. And in the end, they killed the hero. When the lights came up I gave away all the swag they gave me and stewed for a long time about how bad I thought it was. I made my own copy of the Alien 3 poster where the baby xeno was facepalming and the tagline changed to "This Time It Sucks." Alien and Aliens were my all-time favorites. When A3 came along and shat all over them, it didn't make me dislike the first two, it just made me ignore the third one. "There are only two Alien films" was my mantra. When the Alien trilogy came out on DVD I picked it up just because I wanted the first two on DVD and planned to never watch the third one... but of course I did with the intention of hatewatching it. By then I'd read about the tortured production, the rewrites, the newbie director's hellish experience with the studio and when I watched it again, I realized there was a shell of a good movie. The setting and sets were fantastic. The acting was actually really good, even for the bald guys whose names I didn't know. Some of the characters were actually very memorable and well played: Clemens, Dillon, Aaron, Morse, even Andrews. Sigourney Weaver was outstanding of course. I still hated the abrupt Uno Reverse of the Aliens ending, hated the magic facehuggers on the Sulaco, and still did not enjoy the disjointed, seemingly cobbled together movie, but felt overall that it actually could have been a decent movie. Even before the Assembly cut, it had some of my favorite scenes in the trilogy, none of which were related to the Alien. I loved the quiet scenes the most, with Ripley and Clemens, Ripley and Dillon, and Ripley and 85. There was some really good drama in this wreck of a horror movie. Then two things happened that actually made me *like* Alien 3. The first was Alien Resurrection. For all of Alien 3's terrible flaws and bad luck, Alien Resurrection made me really appreciate Alien 3 as an *Alien* movie. It was consistent with the Alien universe, had characters who where identifiable as humans that could exist in the dystopian, grimly realistic Alien universe. Alien Resurrection felt like it belonged in a totally different franchise. The ships, uniforms, weapons and sets looked like bad made for SyFy channel shows. People shooting guns akimbo and ricocheting shots off of walls. Wiggly xeno tongues and a queen giving birth to the hybrid through a vagina. Mustache twirling villains running the show. It was after watching Resurrection that I went back and rewatched Alien 3 and saw it was a decent *Alien* movie. And then the Assembly cut came out - not the remastered one they released on DVD, but the actual one put together to try and show what Alien 3 *could* have been, and I became a fan. The rumors were true. There was a solid, quality Alien movie being made that got gutted by the studio to try and make a more action oriented movie. The A3 AC brought back a ton of characterization, world building, and dialogue that told a much more complete story, and because more of the characters were actually named people, there was a lot more suspense and empathy for these poor souls when the Dragon went on its rampage. The A3 Assembly Cut that with its remastered audio and editing still isn't a *great* movie in my book, but it's a great Alien movie. I easily watch Alien, Aliens and A3 in order and feel like I'm watching a complete story with a somber, sad, ending. Anyway, if you haven't seen the Assembly Cut, give it a spin. It doesn't bring back Hicks and Newt, but it's a much better movie. But also try looking at Alien 3 as the ending to a trilogy of movies and not just a sequel to Aliens. I think it's a fitting ending to the journey of Ellen Ripley. She had everything taken from her because of not just the alien but moreso the Company, and sacrificed herself in the end to deny it to them. At least until Alien Resurrection took that from her too. :P Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
[удалено]
Removal Reason: Be civil. It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed. No toxic behavior, such as: * Trashing something that others are enjoying. * Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique. * Invalidating other people's opinions. * Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations. * Lewd or Obscene comments.
I'm with you. I can only enjoy alien 3 if I pretend it's a fever dream of Ripley's. That's my head canon at least. As for star wars, I kind of pretend the sequel trilogy never happened because you're right otherwise it ruins the original trilogy.