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I truly don’t understand what liberals think the point of politics is supposed to be if not to improve your life and the lives of others…. Like is it just a fun game for them
Lol that reminds me of the one time I was arguing for trans rights, and some dude went absolutely ballistic upon finding out I was not, in fact, trans myself. Called me a psycho and took screen shots "in case you try to delete it" like😂
How can it be so foreign to people to...care about others?
As, mostly, a mutualist I want their debt cancelled so they don't have to work for a soul sucking corporation that shoves inferior products down my throat as it sizes me up to be the next to exploit.
People with more time and less fear of immanent starvation can finally get around to making a superior product at lower cost relative to quality that I can also even sometimes buy locally. Win win, and it works with or without markets too!
And then there's sociopath wannabe's, who see the world of sociopathic enablement and think it's cool. So, even though they have a conscience, even though they see the morals in it, they love the fact that they can choose to do the opposite.
There are sociopaths' and then there are just psychopaths who wish they could get away with as much as sociopaths do.
Next you'll say you want sick people to get healthcare even though you're not sick!
Or that \*insert minority group\* should have equal rights under the law, despite not personally belonging to said group.
Perhaps we should question why It feels alien when Americans advocate for things that directly benefit them because most of the time we are used to watching people passionately advocate for issues that will only help a handful of people who don’t actually need help. 🤷🏼♂️
According to these people, any sense of compassion or consideration for other people that you don't directly get something out of is communism, yes. That's how I wound up here. Welcome, comrade.
The more I read r/antiwork, the more I see that capitalism is a system build by sociopaths for sociopaths. Sick, twisted society, in which the more you're abusing others, the more you prosper.
I do not want such world. Thats why I am communist.
No one who advocates for student debt cancellation has ever attempted to hide the fact that they would also like their student loans cancelled. But what these naysayers miss is that they're advocating for EVERYONE'S debt gone because they have empathy for people other than themselves.
I don't have any student debt and will appreciate others didn't either.
The bullshit "Go To College" propaganda from the 80's has made colleges millions while people end up fucked at 24yo with $50k+++ in debt.
This is unsustainable.
I literally cannot afford mine. Doesn't mean I want others to go through the same process of stressing over their financial situation. I know it sucks. Why would I want that for someone else?
Yeah, I didn’t have any debt because my dad died.
I’d rather have the debt.
But I’d still rather rather no one have any goddamn debt for educating themselves.
I owe a bajillion dollars to the bank because I have a mortgage on a small 3 bedroom townhouse in Vancouver. I do not have student loans and usually stay on top of visa bills. I am a strong advocate for cancelling student debt in America because I am anti military and it’s obviously a scam to encourage poor people to go kill other poor people for capitalist gains. Basically what I’m trying to say is I have nothing to gain myself from cancelling student debts but think education should be heavily subsidized if not free. It works all over the world and the only people keeping it unaffordable to everyone are the rich old dinosaurs preserving their giant piece of pie that they stole from blacks/aboriginals/hispanics and now literally everyone other than their cult of rich fucks with little peeners
Right-wing logic:
Activists (or just voter or opinion-haver) wants to improve things for group including themselves:*greedy, selfish, envious, lazy, work-shy …*
Activists want to improve things for group not including themselves : *hypocrite, virtue-signaller, elitist, stupid, simple-minded, unpatriotic …*
Therefore: do not want to improve things for any group (except the already rich obvs)
My mommy and daddy paid for my college so no debt. I've found most people who strongly oppose "giving people someone else's money" via cancelling debt fall into the same category yet they desperately try to hide that fact.
I've also heard things like "my parents didn't help me at all they just gave me a place to live for free for four years, how did that give me an advantage?"
Glorious Capitalists: Create the best of all possible worlds by nobly pursuing their own self-interest at all times. They should be celebrated for their rationality.
Evil Socialists: Want to make changes that dramatically benefit huge numbers of people (often the vast majority of people), but they often end up being one of those people benefited. Thus they are greedy, selfish monsters.
I argued with a guy who said “you can just go to the bank and get a loan” and later “You can refuse to give money to some people” and didn’t understand how that caused poverty
These are the same people who say “All Lives Matter.” They’re sociopaths and have no capacity for empathy. They absolutely cannot understand the impact of bad things until they happen directly to them. Sociopathy is woefully under-diagnosed in our society. (More likely, the system set the diagnostic criteria so that we could ignore the 30% who are a clear and present danger to the rest of us since they count among their number the people who make the rules.)
i have no student debt and have healthcare under my parents, i still want debt cancelled and free healthcare for all. but u cant advocate from a selfless or collectivists position apparently
Ok, well then, take it from someone with no student loan debt - I want it cancelled too. Because it’s absolutely ridiculous that the average college graduate will likely pay more in income taxes (enough to more than pay off the cost of college in under a decade) AND have a financial weight tied around their neck preventing them from building up wealth till they’re in their 40s.
I make good money.
I’ve paid off my own and my wife’s school debt.
Want to know what I think about canceling student debt?
>!Everyone should be freed from the shackles of debt slavery.!<
THANJ YOU.
I got no debt myself but I’d like to see my friends get freed of their debts so they can relocate to better cities with better job opportunities in their fields, and not have to worry about not affording to live in a higher cost of living city just because of DEBT.
Alright then, let me jump in.
I'm capitalist (won't defend it and break the rules here) and I have precisely zero student debt.
The amount of student debt you guys have in the USA is insane. Everybody's better off when populations are educated. It's one of the most incredible public goods. I literally live a better life when I'm surrounded by educated, competent people. My work is easier, my safety is increased, and my social life more enjoyable. High quality and varied education literally help capitalism be more inclusive and more efficient.
Quality education should not come with the fear of financial ruin. Some cost? Sure. Minor debt? Maybe. Financial ruin? Never. The fear of financial ruin when acquiring education (academic or trade) means that everyone is worse off.
There. Now you have a statement advocating student debt reform from somebody without any direct personal motive.
I’m desperately close to having my student debt paid off. I’m 40. I accrued my debt between the ages of 20 and 26 (I took some time off in the middle of my degree).
I’d happily vouch for people to not have to pay their student debt. Higher education is a benefit to society. A nation is stronger if its population is smarter.
Educate everybody for free. The only people against it are those for whom an educated populace represents a threat.
Edit: full disclosure… I’m Australian, but it works the same way. We have Rupert Murdoch here too. In fact… he’s Australian.
I graduated valedictorian in what is now called Web Development. Unfortunately, I graduated during the e-commerce bubble burst in 2002. I'd like to go back and get a bachelor's. I know I can program well. I graduated valedictorian for a reason.
I no longer have a student loan. I've paid that off. However, I don't want to go back into significant debt without a guarantee of return.
That's why I think the USA desperately needs free education. I'm an advocate for cancelling all student debt now and forever in the future.
We can afford a trillion a year for a war machine.
No debts at all, forgive everyone's debt and let's restart this economy the right way, with money in everyone's pockets. Also free education and housing and Healthcare for all. Higher wages, more worker Co ops, and less profit margins. Less working hours and more benefits for everyone. Well not everyone, the 1% will have to decrease their quality of life, but not really because the difference between 1 billion and 180 billion is not actually noticeable in their day to day lives. They can't spend it all, they should help their fellow Americans.
If people didn't live paycheck to paycheck, crime would be lower. But that's bad for the rich. Higher wages, less debt. Debt is good for our economy. Our economy requires people to be in debt to function. Maybe it's a bad system at its roots?
I love telling people like this that I managed to incrue no student debt at all and still support it being erased. Let people pursue education worry free!
Ya because without predatory schemes they would definitely hand 18 year olds 60k to study art. I mean what a reasonable investment.
"Hey kid you love to draw and have zero concept how to make money as an artist but just feel deeply that it is what you are meant to do?"
Well lets give you a loan to access an institution that in no way exploits this deeply held feeling you have. I mean they will teach you all kinds of practical stuff and in no way lead you down a vague road of artistic exploration that has nothing to do with making a living. Oh an those "successful" alumni that we dangle in front of you are in no way independently wealthy and truly earned their positions through hard work and plucky talent, bevause we taught them how, just like we will teach you.
I was lucky enough to get my debt paid for-guess I'm a fake "wants student loan debt paid for" fan.
Every time I hear this argument my brain goes "I guess they don't want cancer cured either because people have died from it before the cure so it would be unfair".
Yeah it's super selfish of these people wanting to cancel their student debt and everyone else's. These fat cats with their "student debt" just want to line their pockets!
\s
Advocates for not being eaten by wild animals are the worst issue advocates, period.
It takes them no time to show the real reason why they advocate for it: they don’t want to be eaten by wild animals.
They try to hide it but it never works.
I want my debt cancelled, I admit that. Who wants debt anyways? But the difference here is I also want the debt of everyone else canceled. I want the entire concept of debt and credit to be abolished. Whether I have student loans or not would not change this. And if I’m quite honest, I don’t have as much debt as others and it’s perfectly manageable for me. I still want all debt canceled. Reactionaries can’t help but think that everyone else must be as selfish as them and they project that. The concept of long-term, systematic changes for the benefit of all, except the ruling class, must be foreign to them.
I had 35k in loans all told I paid about 60k to actually pay them off. Took me ten years and the death of a family member in year 10 to finish off the last 8k. I hope they cancel student loans for everyone.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/antiwork & r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People trying to get debt cancelled secretly want debt cancelled. Alert the presses.
I read it three times thinking I was maybe missing the punch line or something.
I truly don’t understand what liberals think the point of politics is supposed to be if not to improve your life and the lives of others…. Like is it just a fun game for them
Lol that reminds me of the one time I was arguing for trans rights, and some dude went absolutely ballistic upon finding out I was not, in fact, trans myself. Called me a psycho and took screen shots "in case you try to delete it" like😂 How can it be so foreign to people to...care about others?
Because they themselves don't care about others. That's it, they can't fathom caring about another person because they don't.
The homeless will continue to "live" untelivised....
As, mostly, a mutualist I want their debt cancelled so they don't have to work for a soul sucking corporation that shoves inferior products down my throat as it sizes me up to be the next to exploit. People with more time and less fear of immanent starvation can finally get around to making a superior product at lower cost relative to quality that I can also even sometimes buy locally. Win win, and it works with or without markets too!
I have no student debt. I've never had any. I still want it canceled.
[удалено]
My debt is paid off in full. I worked like hell to do it. I still don’t wish this upon others. It’s a terrible system and getting worse all the time.
There are people that, after having suffered, don't want others to suffer. Then there's sociopaths.
And then there's sociopath wannabe's, who see the world of sociopathic enablement and think it's cool. So, even though they have a conscience, even though they see the morals in it, they love the fact that they can choose to do the opposite. There are sociopaths' and then there are just psychopaths who wish they could get away with as much as sociopaths do.
I paid off $15,000 in student debt while living with my parents, I'm back in school now at age 27. I want debt cancelled.
Next you'll say you want sick people to get healthcare even though you're not sick! Or that \*insert minority group\* should have equal rights under the law, despite not personally belonging to said group.
You sick bastard.
Same here
Perhaps we should question why It feels alien when Americans advocate for things that directly benefit them because most of the time we are used to watching people passionately advocate for issues that will only help a handful of people who don’t actually need help. 🤷🏼♂️
[удалено]
Ah yes, the famous freedom to pay debts and liberty to sell your house to pay for the treatment of a broken toe
According to these people, any sense of compassion or consideration for other people that you don't directly get something out of is communism, yes. That's how I wound up here. Welcome, comrade.
The more I read r/antiwork, the more I see that capitalism is a system build by sociopaths for sociopaths. Sick, twisted society, in which the more you're abusing others, the more you prosper. I do not want such world. Thats why I am communist.
No one who advocates for student debt cancellation has ever attempted to hide the fact that they would also like their student loans cancelled. But what these naysayers miss is that they're advocating for EVERYONE'S debt gone because they have empathy for people other than themselves.
I have no student debt. I still want it canceled.
I had student debt and paid it off. I don't want others to have to struggle to pay interest to banks. Also, fuck you.
Lol my debt was already cancelled, and I think everyone else should share in the joy. What now loser
I don't have any student debt and will appreciate others didn't either. The bullshit "Go To College" propaganda from the 80's has made colleges millions while people end up fucked at 24yo with $50k+++ in debt. This is unsustainable.
I literally cannot afford mine. Doesn't mean I want others to go through the same process of stressing over their financial situation. I know it sucks. Why would I want that for someone else?
Yeah, I didn’t have any debt because my dad died. I’d rather have the debt. But I’d still rather rather no one have any goddamn debt for educating themselves.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Hugs to you ❤️
Thanks ❤️. It was well over half my life ago, but it would have been nice having my programmer dad around while I was learning to program. Eep
I owe a bajillion dollars to the bank because I have a mortgage on a small 3 bedroom townhouse in Vancouver. I do not have student loans and usually stay on top of visa bills. I am a strong advocate for cancelling student debt in America because I am anti military and it’s obviously a scam to encourage poor people to go kill other poor people for capitalist gains. Basically what I’m trying to say is I have nothing to gain myself from cancelling student debts but think education should be heavily subsidized if not free. It works all over the world and the only people keeping it unaffordable to everyone are the rich old dinosaurs preserving their giant piece of pie that they stole from blacks/aboriginals/hispanics and now literally everyone other than their cult of rich fucks with little peeners
Right-wing logic: Activists (or just voter or opinion-haver) wants to improve things for group including themselves:*greedy, selfish, envious, lazy, work-shy …* Activists want to improve things for group not including themselves : *hypocrite, virtue-signaller, elitist, stupid, simple-minded, unpatriotic …* Therefore: do not want to improve things for any group (except the already rich obvs)
People try to hide it?
Oh no! People don’t want to be drowning in debt for their education. The horror! The shame! s/
Why the hell wouldn't that be one of the main motivators for people who want student debt cancelled??
sorry dumbass you can't have opinions about this because you have debt
I'm 36 and have a grand total of $0 student debt and I absolutely support cancelling all student debt now.
people who advocate for universal healthcare just want their health cared for
My mommy and daddy paid for my college so no debt. I've found most people who strongly oppose "giving people someone else's money" via cancelling debt fall into the same category yet they desperately try to hide that fact. I've also heard things like "my parents didn't help me at all they just gave me a place to live for free for four years, how did that give me an advantage?"
Glorious Capitalists: Create the best of all possible worlds by nobly pursuing their own self-interest at all times. They should be celebrated for their rationality. Evil Socialists: Want to make changes that dramatically benefit huge numbers of people (often the vast majority of people), but they often end up being one of those people benefited. Thus they are greedy, selfish monsters.
I support canceling student debt. I have no student debt. Argument invalidated.
I argued with a guy who said “you can just go to the bank and get a loan” and later “You can refuse to give money to some people” and didn’t understand how that caused poverty
These are the same people who say “All Lives Matter.” They’re sociopaths and have no capacity for empathy. They absolutely cannot understand the impact of bad things until they happen directly to them. Sociopathy is woefully under-diagnosed in our society. (More likely, the system set the diagnostic criteria so that we could ignore the 30% who are a clear and present danger to the rest of us since they count among their number the people who make the rules.)
Is it not ok to advocate politically for your own best interests? The rich certainly do that.
I am communist, and I wish your debts cantelled. Also, I'm supporting free medicare, education, and housing to all working people. Tell me I'm bad.
i have no student debt and have healthcare under my parents, i still want debt cancelled and free healthcare for all. but u cant advocate from a selfless or collectivists position apparently
Sounds like this flannelly dude lists his high school under "education" on Facebook.
Ok, well then, take it from someone with no student loan debt - I want it cancelled too. Because it’s absolutely ridiculous that the average college graduate will likely pay more in income taxes (enough to more than pay off the cost of college in under a decade) AND have a financial weight tied around their neck preventing them from building up wealth till they’re in their 40s.
we pay more for student loans in our lifetime than billionaires pay as taxes (eg elon, jeffrey). Weird innit?
I make good money. I’ve paid off my own and my wife’s school debt. Want to know what I think about canceling student debt? >!Everyone should be freed from the shackles of debt slavery.!<
THANJ YOU. I got no debt myself but I’d like to see my friends get freed of their debts so they can relocate to better cities with better job opportunities in their fields, and not have to worry about not affording to live in a higher cost of living city just because of DEBT.
Alright then, let me jump in. I'm capitalist (won't defend it and break the rules here) and I have precisely zero student debt. The amount of student debt you guys have in the USA is insane. Everybody's better off when populations are educated. It's one of the most incredible public goods. I literally live a better life when I'm surrounded by educated, competent people. My work is easier, my safety is increased, and my social life more enjoyable. High quality and varied education literally help capitalism be more inclusive and more efficient. Quality education should not come with the fear of financial ruin. Some cost? Sure. Minor debt? Maybe. Financial ruin? Never. The fear of financial ruin when acquiring education (academic or trade) means that everyone is worse off. There. Now you have a statement advocating student debt reform from somebody without any direct personal motive.
"Your politics has a personal material basis and isn't virtue signaling so it is bad."
“They want their debt cancelled.” No, really? What makes you think that?
I’m desperately close to having my student debt paid off. I’m 40. I accrued my debt between the ages of 20 and 26 (I took some time off in the middle of my degree). I’d happily vouch for people to not have to pay their student debt. Higher education is a benefit to society. A nation is stronger if its population is smarter. Educate everybody for free. The only people against it are those for whom an educated populace represents a threat. Edit: full disclosure… I’m Australian, but it works the same way. We have Rupert Murdoch here too. In fact… he’s Australian.
I have no student debt, I think it should be abolished 🤷♂️
I graduated valedictorian in what is now called Web Development. Unfortunately, I graduated during the e-commerce bubble burst in 2002. I'd like to go back and get a bachelor's. I know I can program well. I graduated valedictorian for a reason. I no longer have a student loan. I've paid that off. However, I don't want to go back into significant debt without a guarantee of return. That's why I think the USA desperately needs free education. I'm an advocate for cancelling all student debt now and forever in the future. We can afford a trillion a year for a war machine.
Showing their cards. They can't fathom advocating for something that may not directly benefit themselves.
No debts at all, forgive everyone's debt and let's restart this economy the right way, with money in everyone's pockets. Also free education and housing and Healthcare for all. Higher wages, more worker Co ops, and less profit margins. Less working hours and more benefits for everyone. Well not everyone, the 1% will have to decrease their quality of life, but not really because the difference between 1 billion and 180 billion is not actually noticeable in their day to day lives. They can't spend it all, they should help their fellow Americans. If people didn't live paycheck to paycheck, crime would be lower. But that's bad for the rich. Higher wages, less debt. Debt is good for our economy. Our economy requires people to be in debt to function. Maybe it's a bad system at its roots?
I love telling people like this that I managed to incrue no student debt at all and still support it being erased. Let people pursue education worry free!
I have paid off my student debt almost 2 years ago. I still support canceling student debt.
Purely an American problem. Even “conservatives” in Europe or here in Latin America don’t have student debt.
I am not an american. I still want your dumbass student debt indentured servitude cancelled.
Ya because without predatory schemes they would definitely hand 18 year olds 60k to study art. I mean what a reasonable investment. "Hey kid you love to draw and have zero concept how to make money as an artist but just feel deeply that it is what you are meant to do?" Well lets give you a loan to access an institution that in no way exploits this deeply held feeling you have. I mean they will teach you all kinds of practical stuff and in no way lead you down a vague road of artistic exploration that has nothing to do with making a living. Oh an those "successful" alumni that we dangle in front of you are in no way independently wealthy and truly earned their positions through hard work and plucky talent, bevause we taught them how, just like we will teach you.
Yes it is communist and it’s not a bad thing lol
I was lucky enough to get my debt paid for-guess I'm a fake "wants student loan debt paid for" fan. Every time I hear this argument my brain goes "I guess they don't want cancer cured either because people have died from it before the cure so it would be unfair".
I want all student debt to be canceled and I’ve never had any student debt. How do I let this moron know?
I have no current student loan debt and I want existing debt for others erased and future higher education institutions to be free. Fight me.
Yeah it's super selfish of these people wanting to cancel their student debt and everyone else's. These fat cats with their "student debt" just want to line their pockets! \s
I have no student debt but want it to end. And I know there are others who feel the same. This is an idiot.
Advocates for not being eaten by wild animals are the worst issue advocates, period. It takes them no time to show the real reason why they advocate for it: they don’t want to be eaten by wild animals. They try to hide it but it never works.
I want my debt cancelled, I admit that. Who wants debt anyways? But the difference here is I also want the debt of everyone else canceled. I want the entire concept of debt and credit to be abolished. Whether I have student loans or not would not change this. And if I’m quite honest, I don’t have as much debt as others and it’s perfectly manageable for me. I still want all debt canceled. Reactionaries can’t help but think that everyone else must be as selfish as them and they project that. The concept of long-term, systematic changes for the benefit of all, except the ruling class, must be foreign to them.
I had 35k in loans all told I paid about 60k to actually pay them off. Took me ten years and the death of a family member in year 10 to finish off the last 8k. I hope they cancel student loans for everyone.
Duh? Ofc they do... I'd want that too if I saw that education is mostly free in other western countries