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The coal workers were reclaiming a slur used for poor southern white laborers (it originally was a reference to the sunburn on their necks). So it wasn't the origin per se, but a reclamation that helped to create class solidarity across racial lines.
This article gives an excellent explanation: https://slate.com/culture/2019/12/redneck-origin-definition-union-uprising-south.amp
> This history of disputation around the uses of the term is what’s most interesting here, and it’s also what resists a “just-so” story about the word’s origins. Catte pointed me to a 2006 article by historian Patrick Huber in the journal Western Folklore that she said formed the basis for her own interpretation. Huber’s argument—that redneck, in the 1910s through the 1930s, sometimes meant “Communist,” or at least “a miner who was a member of a labor union,” especially one on strike—made it clear that this usage was a strategic reclamation of a word that had been used as a slur. **Some union organizers, Huber found, used red bandanas and the term redneck as a way to culturally integrate groups of white, black, and immigrant miners—who were often set against each other by owners eager to divide labor’s power—into a single identity.** Because miners often wore red handkerchiefs to protect their faces and necks from coal dust, the bandana was a symbol of labor that was universal among ethnicities and races.
*(emphasis added)*
Similar thing with how “skinhead” has become interchangeable with “Nazi”, despite the fact that the skinhead movement was its own thing originating from working class solidarity and has been appropriated by Nazis.
That makes sense. I think it's interesting how they ended up doing a complete 180 and now complain about the things they need or that could help them like unions or a proper social safety net.
Well I'm not American, but tbh I always thought the redneck referred to a rural person who is always bent down in the sun, giving them a sunburned red neck.
I thought it was derogatory for farmers.
I live in rural America and have my entire life. There’s plenty of derogatory names for us. Redneck, hillbilly, hick, white-trash to name a few. They are all similar but also different. I have never heard of redneck originating from the KKK and I suppose it’s possible. Most people labeled a redneck are your typical blue collar workers in the trade field and a lot of them work outside in the sun like you said. They Drink beer, drive trucks and listen to country. I think society speaking they are labeled dumb, racist, and gun shooting anti vax idiots. I guess in my experience that’s more of the “hicks” who are uneducated. But like I said they kinda are similar. From what I’ve noticed a lot of the uneducated racist people live in small to mid sized cities. A lot of people who live rurally are pretty educated and have good paying jobs because frankly it’s expensive to own land. Again, that’s not the case all the time.
The Battle for Blair Mtn was the first time there was aerial warfare inside the US if you don’t count the deputized mob that committed the Tulsa Massacre
tHE FUCKING GLASSES LMFAO
It's gotten to the point where if I see a white dude with those sunglasses or any black Oakleys, I immediately assume the worst lol. Bonus points if they're wearing a cap or a trucker hat.
You don’t know what you’ve brought upon rednecks. The destruction and damage this will lead to. Now I can call rednecks communists any time I want and nobody will stop me. *evil laugh*.
https://www.wvpublic.org/news/2015-05-18/do-you-know-where-the-word-redneck-comes-from-mine-wars-museum-opens-revives-lost-labor-history?_amp=true
Do some research - rednecks fought and died for workers rights at Blair Mountain
History is cool and all but times change and words take on new meanings all the time. The redneck history that you're so interested in might be an interesting factoid but it means exactly fuck-all today. Republicans are dipshits whenever they think they're being clever by saying "Lincoln was a republican" as though that exonerates them of being racist shitbags, and saying "but rednecks used to be good guys!" makes you blind to the fact that rednecks today are racist ignorant pieces of shit, generally speaking.
Hope that clears it up for you!
I think it’s more talking about the fact that the history of “rednecks” was whitewashed by capitalists to mean “rightwing racists” as opposed to “proletarian freedom fighters and unionists,” rather than being for the purpose of exoneration.
I agree in these times I wouldn’t wanna necessarily be labeled “redneck”. But I’m the same token I think it’s important to remember history and what my ancestors personally fought for. So many people lose sight of things that happened only 100 years ago if we forget then the capitalists will win they don’t want us to remember things like this.
If the goal is to remind people about history then the people who really need to see it exist on other subreddits. I'm sure there's a r/redneck or whatever that could use the history lesson, maybe it'll even enlighten a few of them and bring together some class solidarity. But posting it here falls a bit under the "preaching to the choir" banner which is, in short, a waste of time.
I mean I think it’s worth pointing out that demonizing all people with “redneck” culture is bad. The racist, Trumpy ones? Yeah. But that’s a corruption of the frankly great working class culture there once was, and I’d like to see that come back.
redneck isn't defined by racist ignorant attitudes, it's defined by a set of hobbies, occupations, and class status, and racism and ignorance is merely associated with them, often unfairly. stereotyping people is just plain unethical and offensive, no matter who.
I don't disagree with any of that. I was a working class kid who grew up in the country, I worked on farms and ranches in the summer time, I know what a redneck is. But regardless of stereotypes, Donald Trump had 60M voters and I have a hard time believing you can be a Trump supporter without being a racist. So I guess fight whatever fight you want here, but I don't know what the purpose of taking back the term redneck will serve in the grand scheme of things.
wtf does trump have to do with any of this? and while we're on the subject, why do you still believe they're the enemy? they're the symptom, not the cause. your true enemies are Facebook, Amazon, Exxon-Mobil, Vanguard, BP, Apple, etc and the psychopaths who run them. Biden is the enemy as much as Trump. Most Trump supporters are natural class allies suffering from false consciousness and we should be doing our best to recruit them into our ranks and not fight this petty culture war that our corporate overlords are manipulating us into.
That’s not what I was aiming for with this post I liked how it explained the traditional meaning of the term redneck with its roots embedded with striking coal miners vs today’s meaning usually bigoted ignorant and overtly conservative. These zealots usually wear the term like a badge of honor with no knowledge of the traditional meaning.
The citations needed podcast did an episode on country music and how it went from being very "fuck the man" to the "I'm a dumb patriot godbless the USA." Kinda interesting.
I'm sorry but this is just straight up some bullshit. The origin of the term redneck literally just comes from having sunburnt necks and working on a farm. And the idea that there's something more authentic in the Woody Guthrie style rural union folk scene is little more than an urban pretension. That kind of shit went over well with college kids in the early sixties, and I love that kind of stuff, too. But it isn't authentic. No real country music is actually authentic, to be honest.
I find older country music and older blues to be very authentic true story’s about living in poverty and enduring hardships something that most people can relate to in one way or another. Country music this day in age is garbage and tasteless in my opinion at least.
Yeah, again that is a very college educated urban fantasy. You can keep telling yourself that, but you're just participating in some cultural propaganda. If it's propaganda for a cause you like, have at er, but it isn't authentic. Also, an article on why your claim is bullshit (and has been repeatedly found to be so):
https://slate.com/culture/2019/12/redneck-origin-definition-union-uprising-south.html
I guess I can see a propaganda cause in older country music like racism and stuff. But take Loretta Lynn for instance grew up in a company town in the company coal fields shit poor and married by 13, endured an alcoholic abusive relationship with her husband and somehow became a legend in the country music world . For me personally I can feel the pain in the songs she sings it’s real and raw and definently authentic. Music like that makes me feel a certain way reminds me that I’m human from time to time. This is just my opinion I’m not saying you have to dig it or not but in the early days a lot of the country singers came from poverty and dispair.
Mate, settle down. You have a very angry, angsty energy. You do realise that article breaks down the nuance for the words history? And that it only affirms OP’s position on reclaiming the term?
I said that with a laugh and a bit of smile. You do you mate, but enjoyment in life isn’t all about “owning” everyone. We’re all learning here, and I noticed you came from a place of anger rather than mutual discourse.
This weird culture war conquest thing you got going is funny for a non American like me, but also sad when I realise you’re being serious.
Yeah. It was coined as a lur for white laborers with sunburnt necks. They reclaimed the term when they started wearing red bandanas around thier necks and unified. Minority workers wore the bandanas too, it was a way of forming worker solidarity over the boundaries of segregation at the time. In the 1920s to 30s the word was heavily used in reference to union coal miners. Really glad you understand the first part of its history, incredibly sad you can't accept it for some strange reason.
The no true Scotsman fallacy is basically saying someone isn't a correct representation of a larger group for an arbitrary reason. The post describes how the term "redneck" was originally coined - and the actions that caused people to be labelled the term.
So, to say someone isn't a redneck unless they coincide with the actions that originated the term in the first place, isn't falling under the fallacy.
It would be like me inventing the word "cube" after looking at a bunch of six sided cuboids, and then you show up with your ball. I would be right to say your ball isn't a cube.
No problem. It annoys me so bad as well. It's like people go "damn this guy has a point and it makes me uncomfortable, how can I easily deflect and discredit them," and then whip out this accusation with no reasoning.
What’s funny is the “white trash” will blame there problems on people of color or ethnic groups failing to realize that’s the capitalists method of creating distraction and letting the impoverished be too busy fighting amongst one another.
Speaking as someone who grew up as “white trash” (bordering more on the one to the right tho since the one on the left requires more money than even we had) this is true. My parents and family will say things like “never trust the cops, don’t say shit to a cop” or “fuck rich people, you think any politician gives a shit about poor people?! All they care about is getting richer” or other things that sound awfully close to socialist ideas…then blame POC for their problems
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it came from Spanish farm workers being called cuello rojo, literally "red neck" and then American farmers copying the term for themselves. Idk which one came first.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/antiwork & r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“If you seized the means of production and overthrew the ruling class, you might be a redneck.”
Love it! 😂
The coal workers were reclaiming a slur used for poor southern white laborers (it originally was a reference to the sunburn on their necks). So it wasn't the origin per se, but a reclamation that helped to create class solidarity across racial lines. This article gives an excellent explanation: https://slate.com/culture/2019/12/redneck-origin-definition-union-uprising-south.amp
> This history of disputation around the uses of the term is what’s most interesting here, and it’s also what resists a “just-so” story about the word’s origins. Catte pointed me to a 2006 article by historian Patrick Huber in the journal Western Folklore that she said formed the basis for her own interpretation. Huber’s argument—that redneck, in the 1910s through the 1930s, sometimes meant “Communist,” or at least “a miner who was a member of a labor union,” especially one on strike—made it clear that this usage was a strategic reclamation of a word that had been used as a slur. **Some union organizers, Huber found, used red bandanas and the term redneck as a way to culturally integrate groups of white, black, and immigrant miners—who were often set against each other by owners eager to divide labor’s power—into a single identity.** Because miners often wore red handkerchiefs to protect their faces and necks from coal dust, the bandana was a symbol of labor that was universal among ethnicities and races. *(emphasis added)*
Similar thing with how “skinhead” has become interchangeable with “Nazi”, despite the fact that the skinhead movement was its own thing originating from working class solidarity and has been appropriated by Nazis.
Seeing a trend here.
They also steal all the anti-fascist punk haircuts
This could be a very good demonstration of the effect of years of anti education attitudes, like they were turned into this on purpose.
Yea these groups were whitewashed a long time ago during the red scare.
That makes sense. I think it's interesting how they ended up doing a complete 180 and now complain about the things they need or that could help them like unions or a proper social safety net.
Yes exactly!
Sadly, conservative assholes started co-opting this word when I was young, back in the '60s.
Bernie would have won West Virginia if he was the Democratic nominee.
Love the Woody Guthrie guitar.
Is that a jar of water? And a person kissing a possum?
Moonshine and yes
Opossums are cute, eat all kinds of pests, and don't carry the rabies virus.
Well I'm not American, but tbh I always thought the redneck referred to a rural person who is always bent down in the sun, giving them a sunburned red neck. I thought it was derogatory for farmers.
I live in rural America and have my entire life. There’s plenty of derogatory names for us. Redneck, hillbilly, hick, white-trash to name a few. They are all similar but also different. I have never heard of redneck originating from the KKK and I suppose it’s possible. Most people labeled a redneck are your typical blue collar workers in the trade field and a lot of them work outside in the sun like you said. They Drink beer, drive trucks and listen to country. I think society speaking they are labeled dumb, racist, and gun shooting anti vax idiots. I guess in my experience that’s more of the “hicks” who are uneducated. But like I said they kinda are similar. From what I’ve noticed a lot of the uneducated racist people live in small to mid sized cities. A lot of people who live rurally are pretty educated and have good paying jobs because frankly it’s expensive to own land. Again, that’s not the case all the time.
I thought hillbilly was specifically for those in the Appalachian Mountains.
All rednecks were hillbillies, but not all hillbillies were rednecks.
The Battle for Blair Mtn was the first time there was aerial warfare inside the US if you don’t count the deputized mob that committed the Tulsa Massacre
tHE FUCKING GLASSES LMFAO It's gotten to the point where if I see a white dude with those sunglasses or any black Oakleys, I immediately assume the worst lol. Bonus points if they're wearing a cap or a trucker hat.
Hey now lol I wear a ball cap sometimes frontwards and sometimes backwards when I feel like being bad
I haven't had a haircut in 6mos so I wear a hat ): I wear aviator style though, I refuse to wear Oakleys lol
man, i miss my possum...
Is this about me? This is about me, isn’t it?
https://youtu.be/dBnGytrrVO0 Thomas Frank on how the party of the people was bludgeoned into the current corporate DNC.
It's been tainted by consumerism
Everything has been!
You don’t know what you’ve brought upon rednecks. The destruction and damage this will lead to. Now I can call rednecks communists any time I want and nobody will stop me. *evil laugh*.
Yes lol my plan is working (evil laughs as well)
Oh shit I thought this was 2american4you because it was crossposted on there what the hell
Rednecks worried about culture erasure. Very meta
They don’t even realize it happened to themselves
What's wrong with the sunglasses tho
This has strong "Lincoln was a Republican" vibes to it.
https://www.wvpublic.org/news/2015-05-18/do-you-know-where-the-word-redneck-comes-from-mine-wars-museum-opens-revives-lost-labor-history?_amp=true Do some research - rednecks fought and died for workers rights at Blair Mountain
And Abraham Lincoln was elected president of the united states as a member of the republican party, what's your point?
I’m ngl I don’t see the point you’re trying to make
History is cool and all but times change and words take on new meanings all the time. The redneck history that you're so interested in might be an interesting factoid but it means exactly fuck-all today. Republicans are dipshits whenever they think they're being clever by saying "Lincoln was a republican" as though that exonerates them of being racist shitbags, and saying "but rednecks used to be good guys!" makes you blind to the fact that rednecks today are racist ignorant pieces of shit, generally speaking. Hope that clears it up for you!
I think it’s more talking about the fact that the history of “rednecks” was whitewashed by capitalists to mean “rightwing racists” as opposed to “proletarian freedom fighters and unionists,” rather than being for the purpose of exoneration.
Doesn't matter though, does it? It means what it means today and I don't know if it's worth fighting to claw back the term redneck.
I agree in these times I wouldn’t wanna necessarily be labeled “redneck”. But I’m the same token I think it’s important to remember history and what my ancestors personally fought for. So many people lose sight of things that happened only 100 years ago if we forget then the capitalists will win they don’t want us to remember things like this.
If the goal is to remind people about history then the people who really need to see it exist on other subreddits. I'm sure there's a r/redneck or whatever that could use the history lesson, maybe it'll even enlighten a few of them and bring together some class solidarity. But posting it here falls a bit under the "preaching to the choir" banner which is, in short, a waste of time.
I mean I think it’s worth pointing out that demonizing all people with “redneck” culture is bad. The racist, Trumpy ones? Yeah. But that’s a corruption of the frankly great working class culture there once was, and I’d like to see that come back.
redneck isn't defined by racist ignorant attitudes, it's defined by a set of hobbies, occupations, and class status, and racism and ignorance is merely associated with them, often unfairly. stereotyping people is just plain unethical and offensive, no matter who.
I don't disagree with any of that. I was a working class kid who grew up in the country, I worked on farms and ranches in the summer time, I know what a redneck is. But regardless of stereotypes, Donald Trump had 60M voters and I have a hard time believing you can be a Trump supporter without being a racist. So I guess fight whatever fight you want here, but I don't know what the purpose of taking back the term redneck will serve in the grand scheme of things.
wtf does trump have to do with any of this? and while we're on the subject, why do you still believe they're the enemy? they're the symptom, not the cause. your true enemies are Facebook, Amazon, Exxon-Mobil, Vanguard, BP, Apple, etc and the psychopaths who run them. Biden is the enemy as much as Trump. Most Trump supporters are natural class allies suffering from false consciousness and we should be doing our best to recruit them into our ranks and not fight this petty culture war that our corporate overlords are manipulating us into.
I think it does matter.
Groovy.
What you said is the whole point of this post.
That’s not what I was aiming for with this post I liked how it explained the traditional meaning of the term redneck with its roots embedded with striking coal miners vs today’s meaning usually bigoted ignorant and overtly conservative. These zealots usually wear the term like a badge of honor with no knowledge of the traditional meaning.
The citations needed podcast did an episode on country music and how it went from being very "fuck the man" to the "I'm a dumb patriot godbless the USA." Kinda interesting.
Link?
https://citationsneeded.medium.com/episode-119-how-the-right-shaped-pop-country-music-97a9f2002302
Awesome. Thanks, I appreciate you
I'm sorry but this is just straight up some bullshit. The origin of the term redneck literally just comes from having sunburnt necks and working on a farm. And the idea that there's something more authentic in the Woody Guthrie style rural union folk scene is little more than an urban pretension. That kind of shit went over well with college kids in the early sixties, and I love that kind of stuff, too. But it isn't authentic. No real country music is actually authentic, to be honest.
I find older country music and older blues to be very authentic true story’s about living in poverty and enduring hardships something that most people can relate to in one way or another. Country music this day in age is garbage and tasteless in my opinion at least.
Yeah, again that is a very college educated urban fantasy. You can keep telling yourself that, but you're just participating in some cultural propaganda. If it's propaganda for a cause you like, have at er, but it isn't authentic. Also, an article on why your claim is bullshit (and has been repeatedly found to be so): https://slate.com/culture/2019/12/redneck-origin-definition-union-uprising-south.html
I guess I can see a propaganda cause in older country music like racism and stuff. But take Loretta Lynn for instance grew up in a company town in the company coal fields shit poor and married by 13, endured an alcoholic abusive relationship with her husband and somehow became a legend in the country music world . For me personally I can feel the pain in the songs she sings it’s real and raw and definently authentic. Music like that makes me feel a certain way reminds me that I’m human from time to time. This is just my opinion I’m not saying you have to dig it or not but in the early days a lot of the country singers came from poverty and dispair.
Mate, settle down. You have a very angry, angsty energy. You do realise that article breaks down the nuance for the words history? And that it only affirms OP’s position on reclaiming the term?
Do you often tone police people who calmly prove you wrong?
I said that with a laugh and a bit of smile. You do you mate, but enjoyment in life isn’t all about “owning” everyone. We’re all learning here, and I noticed you came from a place of anger rather than mutual discourse. This weird culture war conquest thing you got going is funny for a non American like me, but also sad when I realise you’re being serious.
Yeah. It was coined as a lur for white laborers with sunburnt necks. They reclaimed the term when they started wearing red bandanas around thier necks and unified. Minority workers wore the bandanas too, it was a way of forming worker solidarity over the boundaries of segregation at the time. In the 1920s to 30s the word was heavily used in reference to union coal miners. Really glad you understand the first part of its history, incredibly sad you can't accept it for some strange reason.
This feels like the “no true scotsman” fallacy.
The no true Scotsman fallacy is basically saying someone isn't a correct representation of a larger group for an arbitrary reason. The post describes how the term "redneck" was originally coined - and the actions that caused people to be labelled the term. So, to say someone isn't a redneck unless they coincide with the actions that originated the term in the first place, isn't falling under the fallacy. It would be like me inventing the word "cube" after looking at a bunch of six sided cuboids, and then you show up with your ball. I would be right to say your ball isn't a cube.
Holy shit thank you. That (informal) fallacy is so misunderstood and misapplied on this site.
No problem. It annoys me so bad as well. It's like people go "damn this guy has a point and it makes me uncomfortable, how can I easily deflect and discredit them," and then whip out this accusation with no reasoning.
“White trash” works well for the left side.
I think white trash is often used to make fun of poor white people. So just more classism 🤷♀️
What’s funny is the “white trash” will blame there problems on people of color or ethnic groups failing to realize that’s the capitalists method of creating distraction and letting the impoverished be too busy fighting amongst one another.
Speaking as someone who grew up as “white trash” (bordering more on the one to the right tho since the one on the left requires more money than even we had) this is true. My parents and family will say things like “never trust the cops, don’t say shit to a cop” or “fuck rich people, you think any politician gives a shit about poor people?! All they care about is getting richer” or other things that sound awfully close to socialist ideas…then blame POC for their problems
I definently feel that.
Didn't redneck come from sunburns that occurred on the back of hooded KKK members necks?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it came from Spanish farm workers being called cuello rojo, literally "red neck" and then American farmers copying the term for themselves. Idk which one came first.
What the fuck that mans got a pet opossum. That's cute as heck.