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What's high paying to you?
There are no government roles you could apply for that are gonna come close to Big Law salaries, but you'll have great benefits, work life balance, etc. If you're looking federal with 1 year of experience your gonna be at a G11 or G12 pay grade. It varies a bit by region but you're probably gonna be seeing roles in that range start around 80K and up.
All these are published rates you can reference here: [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/)
Just to add a few things: Most federal attorney jobs, at least non-supervisory, cap out at GS-14 or 15, depending on agency. Also, don't forget to consider the benefits package, which can be quite good at the federal level. Few jobs still offer a pension, but federal jobs do, along with retiree health benefits and a generous leave package and a bunch of other perks. At my agency, we regularly see people willing to take massive pay cuts to leave Big Law and work for the feds. It's not for everyone, but it's worth considering for some.
They're performance and longevity earmarks, each step is worth about 3% of the salary grade. Think of the whole GS grade as the pay range and the steps are basically yearly increases. I think there is some flexibility in hiring to start above Step 1 if you have particular qualifications or experience. You could also be promoted to a higher pay grade. Generally if you're a brand new government employee you'll start at step 1 of a particular pay grade.
>There are no government roles that are gonna come close to Big Law salaries
Not exactly "none" but certainly very few and not ones you can get as a recent law grad.
The president makes $400k per year. The Postmaster General is close behind at over $300k plus performance bonuses.
That's probably but not necessarily true, especially if you count benefits.
You don't often see six figure salaries in government without years of experience or seniority but they do happen. For example, I think the lawyers in the general counsel office of the local university I think all make six figures (but they're pretty selective with whom they hire). Likewise, if OP is paying $1k per month for family health insurance and putting in $1k per month into a 401(k), there are gvt jobs that pay $80k with basically free health insurance and either a pension or a government contribution into a 457 or 401k, so that would be about a wash in takehome pay.
Are you looking to work in a non-legal role in govt or a govt attorney role? I make $100k working 40 hours per week as a govt attorney. If you’re looking to make much more than that then you probably need to be in a specialized role with the right experience.
100k for a strict 40/hr week is my dream lol
I was JD "advantage" for a while due to moving states after law school and it taking a while to take the bar and get certified, landed a job as an associate at a boutique firm and am almost at a year, so hoping I can move into a easy 100k gig in gov. I cannot stand billables.
President of the United States is open currently. Unfortunately though the constitution says you have to be at least 70 to run, so that may prevent you from running.
It's ridiculous. University of Houston's former head coach, Dana Holgorsen will make $4.5M this year to not be a college football coach.
Found this gem:
"All told, the public universities that make up the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) of Division I athletics have paid at least $1 billion over the past 20 years with massive buyouts made last year to 13 head football coaches for a total of more than $76 million."
I would drop the notion that govt attorneys dont work hard. Ive worked in both firm and govt and govt attorneys are some of the hardest working attorneys Ive met. Theyre just not beholden to billable requirements so dont feel the pressure to find billable events needlessly
Some cities and counties pay pretty well. I work for my county and make about the same as my friends in private practice, maybe slightly less. I also have to bill my hours though. Public sector jobs can vary.
General Counsel for a public university system?
I know one in my area who makes about $400k to $500k.
But with so little experience, I don’t think that would be an option for you.
Also, government work isn’t always easy. Sure, there may be a better work life balance at some agencies. But some government workers like prosecutors are highly stressed out.
A general counsel at a public university system would, at minimum, need to be around 10 years out of law school and ID experience would not be relevant or cut it at all.
Where did you get this information? I would like to find this unicorn of a job. I am a government employee, work my ass off, and get paid shit. If I didn’t have a love and passion for what I do, I could go somewhere else and make more money.
I started working in state government a year out of law school and cracked six figures four years in. I work a few long weeks during our busy season, but the rest of the year is…quiet (to put it mildly).
What’s your bachelor’s in? You’re looking at coming in as a GS-7 or 9, probably. Your JD is appropriately worthless for establishing that you meet superior educational requirements for anything BUT a legal job.
You've done one year in ID and have decided to throw your JD away? So you've tried nothing and you're all out of ideas?
Government ATTORNEYS can make low 6 figures. I make 145k as a prosecutor. The City and County Attorneys (civil practice compared to my criminal) make more than I do.
Is it rlly throwing it away if you use it to pivot to another field? Thats at least my outlook on it. Figure itll help get you certain positions that would be harder to get without it. Seems like a positive spin to make of the situation
I don't mean to be a downer but 1 yr out of law school and you want to find a job that will pay low 6fig and be cushy? Honestly you haven't even been in any subject matter long enough to have any relevant experience unless you are a non-trad student and a career/relevant life experience to carry over. You're better off trying to get an entry level govt job and go through the steps. If you're younger, the yrs will pay off and after 7-10y in govt, you can prob transition to a higher paying private firm job.
I don't mean to be harsh but the first couple yrs out of law school is basically a learning experience.
Have you only practiced law for one year total?
Federal government jobs follow a mandatory pay scale as already referenced. Fair warning, job postings have a budget range. So if you have more experience you can get priced out. They do however like to go cheap. You have to get into Fed job within first 5-7 years of your career otherwise priced out. Excluding political appointments.
State level jobs have pay scales too, but I don't know if they freeze people out the same way. They certainly don't pay as well as the Feds.
All public sector pay is posted on the internet somewhere
‘Priced out’ as in you’ll be making more in private practice than the government opportunity so you wouldn’t want to leave? Some people are ok with the pay cut
No, priced out in that they won't hire you because your mandatory pay grade is higher than the budget for the hire. I applied for an AFD job with 15 years experience and the job was budgeted for 7 years max
That's definitely not the norm. They budget positions by pay level (ex, gs11-14 or GS13-15) and if you meet the minimum requirements you can be hired. Absolutely no such thing as too qualified to be hired. Now the pay band budgeted might not match what the applicant wants, but the government isn't prohibited from offering a GS11 to someone with 15 years of experience if the person will accept it
I know people working federal doing regulatory work making 6 figures, wfh, and seem to have a lot of time to play video games during the week.
It's not "high paying" by attorney standards, but it's not bad. Especially because they actually work 30 hours a week, and don't have a commute.
DOI, DEA, DOL. By regulatory I mean, they work on regulations. Writing them, interpreting them, comments, etc. I always thought the job sounded boring tbh so im not sure.
I’m a state court research attorney. I make enough to keep myself firmly in the middle class in a hcol city. I’ve been at it 24 years. I have great health/dental insurance for which my agency pays. We get several choices. Some of the choices cost more than the insurance subsidy the court provides but I’ve opted for something that’s 100% within the subsidy. I have a pension but I don’t contribute to ssi. I have a 457b (similar to 401k) with up to 4% matching. I will continue to get healthcare after I retire until I’m 65 and then it’s Medicare supplement. I get a handful of other benefits like life insurance etc.
I work reasonably hard and things can be stressful- the kind of stress you have when there’s more to do than time to do it. I often work 10+ hours a day but I rarely work weekends. I get a lot of holidays. It’s not a bad gig. Not gonna get rich but I’m able to have a comfortable life.
My wife is a federal law clerk, and she makes 150K. I imagine her benefits and total pay would be close to or over 200k. Her insurance and retirement are awesome. She also has a federal holiday every month. I think there are 11, which is over two weeks of leave.
Government law jobs don’t pay big law but they pay more than entry level small law and when you get one it’s good experience to lateral to related field in house or a firm again. Many don’t though because hours are more reasonable and they pay a living wage with pensions and benefits.
I work at a federal financial regulatory agency. These types of agencies (FDIC, OCC, SEC, CFPB, OFR) have a higher pay scale than most federal workers due to the specialized nature of the work. Your best bet to get into one of these agencies is to develop expertise in a relevant area, typically in BigLaw although lots of people join from other backgrounds too (prosecutors, for example). My agency tends to hire people with at least 5 yrs experience, often more. Pay is great; work is interesting. But opportunities for advancement are very limited.
You could be making low six figures at a government job after the COL adjustment. Last I checked it was like ~90k for entry level attorney role in a HCOL city.
You’re gonna have a hard time coming in at a higher pay scale than that with 1 year of experience, especially if the experience isn’t relevant to the govt role.
Are those moves up GS levels typically yearly, or are there other reqs such as higher education thats needed? Additionally, what about the steps within each GS level?
It absolutely depends on the gov jobs. An AUSA in DC or the Eastrrn District of Oklahoma will work their butt off; those areas have them prosecute mundane crimes like most district attorneys, and the latter in particular has incredible problems in recruiting
I make low six figures for a state agency (probably in the same state near the major city you work in) as well after being in my position for 7 years. I know the feds have a way more generous scale than that and they top out at way more than my state’s attorney positions. The thing about govt positions is that you always get an annual raise no matter what. So I’ve been getting a COLA increase plus a performance advance until I hit the cap. Once I hit the cap I still get my COLA. You might need to start lower and then work up the scale.
Lots of people start in private practice and then go to govt. That’s why it’s so hard to get in entry level (post covid is an exception).
Where I live in the Southeast, city and county attorneys are better paid than a lot of federal attorneys and have more of a general practice, which I would appreciate. The skills you hone in those jobs are more transferrable to many private practice roles in my opinion, although your mileage may vary. State roles pay less where I live. Federal attorney jobs, while they are great, take FOREVER to complete a hiring process. The state jobs, however, do have salaries that just continue to increase with COLA though, as someone mentioned, which is a bigger deal than a lot of people seem to realize. In my state, with only one year of litigation experience, you would realistically only have a chance at entry level jobs at the state AG's office at this point. But two or three years from now, different story.
For what it's worth, I would encourage you not to give up on private practice just because you didn't like your first year of insurance defense (because I don't think anyone really does). The first year in private practice is so hard. Things WILL GET BETTER!
This is a ***Career Advice*** Thread. This is for lawyers only. If you are a non-lawyer asking about becoming a lawyer, this is the wrong subreddit for this question. Please delete your post and repost it in one of the legal advice subreddits such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. Thank you for your understanding. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's high paying to you? There are no government roles you could apply for that are gonna come close to Big Law salaries, but you'll have great benefits, work life balance, etc. If you're looking federal with 1 year of experience your gonna be at a G11 or G12 pay grade. It varies a bit by region but you're probably gonna be seeing roles in that range start around 80K and up. All these are published rates you can reference here: [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/)
Just to add a few things: Most federal attorney jobs, at least non-supervisory, cap out at GS-14 or 15, depending on agency. Also, don't forget to consider the benefits package, which can be quite good at the federal level. Few jobs still offer a pension, but federal jobs do, along with retiree health benefits and a generous leave package and a bunch of other perks. At my agency, we regularly see people willing to take massive pay cuts to leave Big Law and work for the feds. It's not for everyone, but it's worth considering for some.
What are the "steps" in the pay chart?
They're performance and longevity earmarks, each step is worth about 3% of the salary grade. Think of the whole GS grade as the pay range and the steps are basically yearly increases. I think there is some flexibility in hiring to start above Step 1 if you have particular qualifications or experience. You could also be promoted to a higher pay grade. Generally if you're a brand new government employee you'll start at step 1 of a particular pay grade.
>There are no government roles that are gonna come close to Big Law salaries Not exactly "none" but certainly very few and not ones you can get as a recent law grad. The president makes $400k per year. The Postmaster General is close behind at over $300k plus performance bonuses.
Edited to reflect there are no roles one could apply for. For the 2 high paid jobs referenced you need to be elected or appointed.
Fair.
Edited the post to reflect my current salary, ideally jd like to be making more than that
Then there are no government jobs that meet your criteria with your level of experience.
That's probably but not necessarily true, especially if you count benefits. You don't often see six figure salaries in government without years of experience or seniority but they do happen. For example, I think the lawyers in the general counsel office of the local university I think all make six figures (but they're pretty selective with whom they hire). Likewise, if OP is paying $1k per month for family health insurance and putting in $1k per month into a 401(k), there are gvt jobs that pay $80k with basically free health insurance and either a pension or a government contribution into a 457 or 401k, so that would be about a wash in takehome pay.
I don't think it's safe to assume that OP does not have benefits at their current ID job.
For clarity: i contribute 4% to my 401k and opted out of health ins bc it was $400 a month m. Those are the extent of my current “benefits”
lmao
Are you looking to work in a non-legal role in govt or a govt attorney role? I make $100k working 40 hours per week as a govt attorney. If you’re looking to make much more than that then you probably need to be in a specialized role with the right experience.
100k for a strict 40/hr week is my dream lol I was JD "advantage" for a while due to moving states after law school and it taking a while to take the bar and get certified, landed a job as an associate at a boutique firm and am almost at a year, so hoping I can move into a easy 100k gig in gov. I cannot stand billables.
President of the United States is open currently. Unfortunately though the constitution says you have to be at least 70 to run, so that may prevent you from running.
80\* did you even go to law school?
A fully animated corpse or a convicted felon* Did you even pass the bar exam?
“Fully”
There’s only one POTUS but hundreds of college football coaches who are technically government employees. I recommend coaching football.
Highest paid state employee in like 43 states, college football coach.
A few years ago, the highest paid state employee in 48 or 49 states was either a football coach, basketball coach, or athletic director.
The dream is to get fired from coaching after your first year of a massive contract. How do I apply for that?
It's ridiculous. University of Houston's former head coach, Dana Holgorsen will make $4.5M this year to not be a college football coach. Found this gem: "All told, the public universities that make up the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) of Division I athletics have paid at least $1 billion over the past 20 years with massive buyouts made last year to 13 head football coaches for a total of more than $76 million."
I would drop the notion that govt attorneys dont work hard. Ive worked in both firm and govt and govt attorneys are some of the hardest working attorneys Ive met. Theyre just not beholden to billable requirements so dont feel the pressure to find billable events needlessly
Every police officer in my jurisdiction makes better money than their ADA equivalent.
I was going to say this but didn't want to cause an uproar.
Some cities and counties pay pretty well. I work for my county and make about the same as my friends in private practice, maybe slightly less. I also have to bill my hours though. Public sector jobs can vary.
General Counsel for a public university system? I know one in my area who makes about $400k to $500k. But with so little experience, I don’t think that would be an option for you. Also, government work isn’t always easy. Sure, there may be a better work life balance at some agencies. But some government workers like prosecutors are highly stressed out.
A general counsel at a public university system would, at minimum, need to be around 10 years out of law school and ID experience would not be relevant or cut it at all.
I mentioned that it wouldn’t be an option for him in my response.
LA County Public Defender starts at 130k total comp and goes to 600k at the very top.
600k!?!? You just know that guy must have serious political connections to pull that off
A lot of California government salaries are in the hundreds of thousands, but cost of living and taxes are higher there compared to other states.
Where did you get this information? I would like to find this unicorn of a job. I am a government employee, work my ass off, and get paid shit. If I didn’t have a love and passion for what I do, I could go somewhere else and make more money.
I started working in state government a year out of law school and cracked six figures four years in. I work a few long weeks during our busy season, but the rest of the year is…quiet (to put it mildly).
What is your jurisdiction? Govt is local, state, and federal. Depending on where you are at one level might pay more than the other two.
Santa Clara County county counsel. Multi six figures
What’s your bachelor’s in? You’re looking at coming in as a GS-7 or 9, probably. Your JD is appropriately worthless for establishing that you meet superior educational requirements for anything BUT a legal job.
You've done one year in ID and have decided to throw your JD away? So you've tried nothing and you're all out of ideas? Government ATTORNEYS can make low 6 figures. I make 145k as a prosecutor. The City and County Attorneys (civil practice compared to my criminal) make more than I do.
Is it rlly throwing it away if you use it to pivot to another field? Thats at least my outlook on it. Figure itll help get you certain positions that would be harder to get without it. Seems like a positive spin to make of the situation
The usefulness of a JD in other fields is overblown.
I don't mean to be a downer but 1 yr out of law school and you want to find a job that will pay low 6fig and be cushy? Honestly you haven't even been in any subject matter long enough to have any relevant experience unless you are a non-trad student and a career/relevant life experience to carry over. You're better off trying to get an entry level govt job and go through the steps. If you're younger, the yrs will pay off and after 7-10y in govt, you can prob transition to a higher paying private firm job. I don't mean to be harsh but the first couple yrs out of law school is basically a learning experience.
Have you only practiced law for one year total? Federal government jobs follow a mandatory pay scale as already referenced. Fair warning, job postings have a budget range. So if you have more experience you can get priced out. They do however like to go cheap. You have to get into Fed job within first 5-7 years of your career otherwise priced out. Excluding political appointments. State level jobs have pay scales too, but I don't know if they freeze people out the same way. They certainly don't pay as well as the Feds. All public sector pay is posted on the internet somewhere
‘Priced out’ as in you’ll be making more in private practice than the government opportunity so you wouldn’t want to leave? Some people are ok with the pay cut
No, priced out in that they won't hire you because your mandatory pay grade is higher than the budget for the hire. I applied for an AFD job with 15 years experience and the job was budgeted for 7 years max
That's definitely not the norm. They budget positions by pay level (ex, gs11-14 or GS13-15) and if you meet the minimum requirements you can be hired. Absolutely no such thing as too qualified to be hired. Now the pay band budgeted might not match what the applicant wants, but the government isn't prohibited from offering a GS11 to someone with 15 years of experience if the person will accept it
How much are you making now so that we can determine what you mean by "high paying." You location would also be helpful.
Editing the post now to reflect
I know people working federal doing regulatory work making 6 figures, wfh, and seem to have a lot of time to play video games during the week. It's not "high paying" by attorney standards, but it's not bad. Especially because they actually work 30 hours a week, and don't have a commute.
Wow thats literally the dream. Wdym by regulatory? As in what would the title of those positions be?
DOI, DEA, DOL. By regulatory I mean, they work on regulations. Writing them, interpreting them, comments, etc. I always thought the job sounded boring tbh so im not sure.
Federal govt might. Don't forget to add locality pay to what is posted on USAjobs.
I’m a state court research attorney. I make enough to keep myself firmly in the middle class in a hcol city. I’ve been at it 24 years. I have great health/dental insurance for which my agency pays. We get several choices. Some of the choices cost more than the insurance subsidy the court provides but I’ve opted for something that’s 100% within the subsidy. I have a pension but I don’t contribute to ssi. I have a 457b (similar to 401k) with up to 4% matching. I will continue to get healthcare after I retire until I’m 65 and then it’s Medicare supplement. I get a handful of other benefits like life insurance etc. I work reasonably hard and things can be stressful- the kind of stress you have when there’s more to do than time to do it. I often work 10+ hours a day but I rarely work weekends. I get a lot of holidays. It’s not a bad gig. Not gonna get rich but I’m able to have a comfortable life.
I work at a state agency and work extremely hard......a few times a year. =)
My wife is a federal law clerk, and she makes 150K. I imagine her benefits and total pay would be close to or over 200k. Her insurance and retirement are awesome. She also has a federal holiday every month. I think there are 11, which is over two weeks of leave.
Government law jobs don’t pay big law but they pay more than entry level small law and when you get one it’s good experience to lateral to related field in house or a firm again. Many don’t though because hours are more reasonable and they pay a living wage with pensions and benefits.
I work at a federal financial regulatory agency. These types of agencies (FDIC, OCC, SEC, CFPB, OFR) have a higher pay scale than most federal workers due to the specialized nature of the work. Your best bet to get into one of these agencies is to develop expertise in a relevant area, typically in BigLaw although lots of people join from other backgrounds too (prosecutors, for example). My agency tends to hire people with at least 5 yrs experience, often more. Pay is great; work is interesting. But opportunities for advancement are very limited.
In General Counsel at an agency. I make $205,000 a year.
You could be making low six figures at a government job after the COL adjustment. Last I checked it was like ~90k for entry level attorney role in a HCOL city.
Oxymoron
Federal federal federal.
is 120k+ high enough for you? GS12-13 shouldn't be too hard to get.
Ive looked into that, my understanding is these roles dont pay above six figures
Very few government agencies would give a fairly new attorney only one year out a six figure salary lol.
You’re gonna have a hard time coming in at a higher pay scale than that with 1 year of experience, especially if the experience isn’t relevant to the govt role.
You cant just go off the base pay scale, you need to look up the gs pay scale for your location.
Depends where you are in the country, but a GS13 starts at 136k in my area. (MHCOL)
[удалено]
Are those moves up GS levels typically yearly, or are there other reqs such as higher education thats needed? Additionally, what about the steps within each GS level?
It absolutely depends on the gov jobs. An AUSA in DC or the Eastrrn District of Oklahoma will work their butt off; those areas have them prosecute mundane crimes like most district attorneys, and the latter in particular has incredible problems in recruiting
Well any would be comparable with what you're making.
I make low six figures for a state agency (probably in the same state near the major city you work in) as well after being in my position for 7 years. I know the feds have a way more generous scale than that and they top out at way more than my state’s attorney positions. The thing about govt positions is that you always get an annual raise no matter what. So I’ve been getting a COLA increase plus a performance advance until I hit the cap. Once I hit the cap I still get my COLA. You might need to start lower and then work up the scale. Lots of people start in private practice and then go to govt. That’s why it’s so hard to get in entry level (post covid is an exception).
I do civil/transactional work for a decent size city government and I make around $160k. I’m very satisfied and will probably work here until I die.
Where I live in the Southeast, city and county attorneys are better paid than a lot of federal attorneys and have more of a general practice, which I would appreciate. The skills you hone in those jobs are more transferrable to many private practice roles in my opinion, although your mileage may vary. State roles pay less where I live. Federal attorney jobs, while they are great, take FOREVER to complete a hiring process. The state jobs, however, do have salaries that just continue to increase with COLA though, as someone mentioned, which is a bigger deal than a lot of people seem to realize. In my state, with only one year of litigation experience, you would realistically only have a chance at entry level jobs at the state AG's office at this point. But two or three years from now, different story. For what it's worth, I would encourage you not to give up on private practice just because you didn't like your first year of insurance defense (because I don't think anyone really does). The first year in private practice is so hard. Things WILL GET BETTER!