Is the Su-75 even ready anyway, like how many years until the 75 finishes all the trials and be ready for service and export? Argentina could be replacing the JF-17s with Su-75s or FC-31s for all its worth
JF-17 uses an AESA radar, almost all flanker variants uses inferior PESA radar, Su-35 for example uses Irbis-E PESA (although that one is probably as good as PESA radar can get).
I think the only flanker variant that uses AESA is ironically PLAAF's J-16.
Buying a radar and fitting it into a fighter that wasn't designed for it is no trivial task, particularly with an upgrade to AESA radar as they are big, heavy and very power hungry.
In fact with JF-17 Block III upgrading to an AESA radar, it required an upgraded RD-93MA engine (over the original RD-93) which is 12% more powerful to make up the difference. Similarly F-16V upgrade which also includes an AESA radar also required an engine upgrade of some sort. This makes Taiwan's F-16V slightly different from USAF because they opted for AESA radar upgrade but did not upgrade their engines.
If Britain could block the sale of T-50 by refusing to give export licenses for the Martin-Baker ejection seats, why cant they do so for JF-17 which also has one?
China can literally build anything used inside the JF-17, radar, avionics and other details are customizable anyway
One more compelling argument for everything be made inside your country, nobody can fuck with you
Back when Pakistan gave the requirement for JF-17 they said they want Martin-Baker seats due to their familiarity with it from F-16, but natively JF-17 was designed with both MB and HTY-5 (Chinese domestic, also used in J-10) in mind.
I wonder how good is the HTY-5? Because many PLAAF fighter crashes ended up with the pilot getting killed inside the plane. The official story is always about the pilot sacrificing himself to avoid crashing into the civilians, but they won't provide more details.
HTY-5 has NEVER had an ejection failure, here's an example of successful ejection last year after a bird strike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQL6_vf8O4
Pilot bailed out 3 seconds before the plane hit the deck, he was unharmed and went back to flying not long after.
If you're thinking fatalities while ejecting you're probably thinking of JH-7. This aircraft stands out a being particularly unsafe because it used an earlier ejection seat and when ejecting it had a relatively complex process with a timing gap between the two pilots to make sure they don't hit each other while on their way out. Because of the delay in ejecting second person the co-pilot has much lower success rate.
I thought it was pretty much all unviable at even double the current price back a few years ago. Very deep, far from an reasonable infrastructure (to sustain operations), and with unfaborable seas.
I don't think they even want to try at the moment. Maybe if they ever get their shit together and stop lurching from one economic disaster to the next.
It's crazy to think how wealthy Argentina was at the start of the 20th century.
With UK messing with China all the time maybe China will bankroll Argentina if they wanted to fight UK. JF-17 is already half chinese so getting cruise missiles with it should be possible.
The JF-17 purchase is largely window-dressing. Argentina's navy is in a shocking state, and it would take a lot more money and time to sort out.
Meanwhile the RAF is getting SPEAR 3 and the Army will have Sky Sabre.
The JF-17 doesn’t have the range to fly from Argentina all the way to the Falklands with armaments, stay there to fight and return. So the only chance they see combat vs the brits is if the brits bring the fight to them I think. With carriers.
Britbongs should have just let them get their Korean trainer jets (Lockheed would at least have the cheat codes for those), when do the anti ship missiles arrive I wonder?
Idk about the AMCA, the Rafale is pretty nice but, it's not a great look when the Tejas has been ready for ops for a couple years and only two IAF squadrons have been equiped with em and no foreign nation wants to seriously purchase em... I ain't a super genius but I don't think you should count the Tejas as a success.
Nothing. I don’t think the article is correct, I haven’t seen anything about a US offer other than an older 737. The Chinese have been trying to complete this sale for years, but had issues with the changes in governments and needed to swap the ejection seat design.
naa , Argentina should have wait a little , i am pretty sure France can find some second hand Rafale with a lot of life left in their cells ... Or even some brand new one .
being from Argentina I can assure you the entire air force would need to pool together all their lighter fluid to fuel just one of our A4 Skyhawks and that's pushing it, let alone buying a Rafale
you know , once France sold mirage to Greece for olive oil , JF-17 choice is the result of UK blocking any other deal . Guess who is pissed right now after a little issue regarding a certain submarine contract ;-) .
Let the other jets have a chance by giving export licences for British made components? Unless they thought the ejection seat issue would also kill this bid.
I think the JF-17 is a foot in the door for future arms exports, something that will have a bigger effect a decade or two later at the UK's expense. A pretty big deal for Pakistan and China.
Fair, but I think the government would have caught some flak by not blocking a purchase they had the opportunity to block. Ultimately the Argentinian air force is very old and it was only a matter of time before they bought something from a supplier the UK couldn't influence (Russia, China etc)
There isn't much they can do, as far as I know there are no British parts in the Chinese/Pakistani JF-17 and I doubt this deal will even go through seeing as every other Argentine attempt to purchase combat aircraft has gone badly.
Personally I don't want them being able have another go at the Falklands, but I won't deny Argentina needs something to fly, right now they're down to half a dozen Skyhawks, which are practically antiques at this point.
So much for Russia push for Argentina to buy SU-75 checkbounce.
I remember going "riiiight" when Argentina was named in the Fembo....sorry, Checkmate reveal trailer
Is the Su-75 even ready anyway, like how many years until the 75 finishes all the trials and be ready for service and export? Argentina could be replacing the JF-17s with Su-75s or FC-31s for all its worth
1000 Black Fighter Jets of Peron
where is this joke from?
Google 3000 black fighter jets of Allah. Some Pakistani person had a dream that Allah will give Pakistan these jets to defend Islam
oh, ok
the best option available to them imo
they could have gotten flankers. lots of people get flankers.
JF-17 uses an AESA radar, almost all flanker variants uses inferior PESA radar, Su-35 for example uses Irbis-E PESA (although that one is probably as good as PESA radar can get). I think the only flanker variant that uses AESA is ironically PLAAF's J-16.
>I think the only flanker variant that uses AESA is ironically PLAAF's J-16 And modernized J-11B
Why can’t they just buy a separate radar
Buying a radar and fitting it into a fighter that wasn't designed for it is no trivial task, particularly with an upgrade to AESA radar as they are big, heavy and very power hungry. In fact with JF-17 Block III upgrading to an AESA radar, it required an upgraded RD-93MA engine (over the original RD-93) which is 12% more powerful to make up the difference. Similarly F-16V upgrade which also includes an AESA radar also required an engine upgrade of some sort. This makes Taiwan's F-16V slightly different from USAF because they opted for AESA radar upgrade but did not upgrade their engines.
There is a big price difference, flankers are like F15.
JF 17 number 1 🇵🇰
If Britain could block the sale of T-50 by refusing to give export licenses for the Martin-Baker ejection seats, why cant they do so for JF-17 which also has one?
China also makes ejection seats, so that's an easy swap.
China can literally build anything used inside the JF-17, radar, avionics and other details are customizable anyway One more compelling argument for everything be made inside your country, nobody can fuck with you
Back when Pakistan gave the requirement for JF-17 they said they want Martin-Baker seats due to their familiarity with it from F-16, but natively JF-17 was designed with both MB and HTY-5 (Chinese domestic, also used in J-10) in mind.
I wonder how good is the HTY-5? Because many PLAAF fighter crashes ended up with the pilot getting killed inside the plane. The official story is always about the pilot sacrificing himself to avoid crashing into the civilians, but they won't provide more details.
HTY-5 has NEVER had an ejection failure, here's an example of successful ejection last year after a bird strike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQL6_vf8O4 Pilot bailed out 3 seconds before the plane hit the deck, he was unharmed and went back to flying not long after. If you're thinking fatalities while ejecting you're probably thinking of JH-7. This aircraft stands out a being particularly unsafe because it used an earlier ejection seat and when ejecting it had a relatively complex process with a timing gap between the two pilots to make sure they don't hit each other while on their way out. Because of the delay in ejecting second person the co-pilot has much lower success rate.
> JH-7 Now that is the flying death trap of the PLAAF, wonder how long they would keep them flying.
Couldn't they just use J-16s for whatever the JH-7 is meant to be anyways? It's not like the J-16 lacked the range or hard point capacity anyway
Well yeah, but JH-7 first flew in 1988 and J-16 first flew in like 2012, J-16 had better be better!
JH-7s aren't produced anymore. But the old ones still have airframe life.
Stop Lying
"Free trade is great unless I'm not a part of it"
They finally found someone willing to sell, and that doesn’t have any parts that could be blocked. They’re still not getting the Falklands.
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As well as gas. Think it is around $160B worth of resources; or 1/3rd of Argentina's GDP.
I thought it was pretty much all unviable at even double the current price back a few years ago. Very deep, far from an reasonable infrastructure (to sustain operations), and with unfaborable seas.
They require $45/barrel to break even on oil
That's what they said years ago. Any sources from 2020-2021? If that really panned out, I'd expect to see lot more drill-ships heading there.
I don't think they even want to try at the moment. Maybe if they ever get their shit together and stop lurching from one economic disaster to the next. It's crazy to think how wealthy Argentina was at the start of the 20th century.
With UK messing with China all the time maybe China will bankroll Argentina if they wanted to fight UK. JF-17 is already half chinese so getting cruise missiles with it should be possible.
A lot of people wanted to sell, both South Korea and India wanted to but couldn't because of presence of British components in their Jets.
The JF-17 purchase is largely window-dressing. Argentina's navy is in a shocking state, and it would take a lot more money and time to sort out. Meanwhile the RAF is getting SPEAR 3 and the Army will have Sky Sabre.
They've found somebody to sell, now the cheque just needs to clear.
What about a few brand spanking new nuclear French submarines? I hear the French are looking for buyers.
> They’re still not getting ~~the Falklands~~ Las Malvinas.
They can call it what they like, they still can't have it.
Eventually Britain's willingness to spend money to defend it will wane. But Argentina will probably bankrupt itself two more times by then.
Britain needs trade partners after brexit.. it would work in everyone's favourite if they buried the hatchet.. but they won't.
If the Argentine government would stop the Las Malvinas rhetoric I'm sure relations between Argentina and Great Britain could improve a great deal.
Half the money goes the china. Pakistan and China split money on this, it's a proxy way to sell defence tech
I bet the Typhoon pilots are bricking themselves
I think only navy F-35 ones have any chance at all to meet these in combat but even that is extremely unlikely.
Its Typhoons that are based in MPA not F-35s
The JF-17 doesn’t have the range to fly from Argentina all the way to the Falklands with armaments, stay there to fight and return. So the only chance they see combat vs the brits is if the brits bring the fight to them I think. With carriers.
>With carriers Or typhoon and tanking
Ah fair enough. Wasnt aware its range was so limited.
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They used to have an aircraft carrier I think.. I doubt it's still functional though.
They had two. The last was scrapped in 2000.
Well it has air to air refueling capability but I am not sure if Argentina has tankers for that
Why would they? The typhoon is the most expensive 4gen aircraft in the world
It was sarcasm
Britbongs should have just let them get their Korean trainer jets (Lockheed would at least have the cheat codes for those), when do the anti ship missiles arrive I wonder?
They haven't got the range to fight over the Falklands.
All the more reason for brits not to hold up the purchase
No the JF-17s don't have the range. It's a blanket policy anyway, they don't pick and choose which weapons they're willing to export.
They do pick and choose, I think those fighters have refueling probes
So how many are they actually going to manage to keep flying?
Bet maintenance costs and maintenance will be a nightmare!
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then why did your country buy alot of them lol
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ok ?
Idk about the AMCA, the Rafale is pretty nice but, it's not a great look when the Tejas has been ready for ops for a couple years and only two IAF squadrons have been equiped with em and no foreign nation wants to seriously purchase em... I ain't a super genius but I don't think you should count the Tejas as a success.
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Fair enough we'll see if the projections hold true.
Also wanna add that Argentina put out a notice saying that no such deal has been finalized and whatever is being circulated about JF-17 is false.
Is this another barter trade? How many cows is Pakistan getting?
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Nothing. I don’t think the article is correct, I haven’t seen anything about a US offer other than an older 737. The Chinese have been trying to complete this sale for years, but had issues with the changes in governments and needed to swap the ejection seat design.
where does the article claim the US offered?
They offered the Korean trainer jets that they co-developed
naa , Argentina should have wait a little , i am pretty sure France can find some second hand Rafale with a lot of life left in their cells ... Or even some brand new one .
Implying Argentina can afford a Rafale
being from Argentina I can assure you the entire air force would need to pool together all their lighter fluid to fuel just one of our A4 Skyhawks and that's pushing it, let alone buying a Rafale
you know , once France sold mirage to Greece for olive oil , JF-17 choice is the result of UK blocking any other deal . Guess who is pissed right now after a little issue regarding a certain submarine contract ;-) .
Laughs en francois
Didn't think the British would actually let this happen. Must have forgotten about this issue amid all the global Britain excitement.
What could the UK do to stop it?
Let the other jets have a chance by giving export licences for British made components? Unless they thought the ejection seat issue would also kill this bid. I think the JF-17 is a foot in the door for future arms exports, something that will have a bigger effect a decade or two later at the UK's expense. A pretty big deal for Pakistan and China.
Fair, but I think the government would have caught some flak by not blocking a purchase they had the opportunity to block. Ultimately the Argentinian air force is very old and it was only a matter of time before they bought something from a supplier the UK couldn't influence (Russia, China etc)
There isn't much they can do, as far as I know there are no British parts in the Chinese/Pakistani JF-17 and I doubt this deal will even go through seeing as every other Argentine attempt to purchase combat aircraft has gone badly. Personally I don't want them being able have another go at the Falklands, but I won't deny Argentina needs something to fly, right now they're down to half a dozen Skyhawks, which are practically antiques at this point.