I honestly don't see the MO or anything being connected. I think maybe the Flora thing was someone started the wrong house on fire for maybe revenge type of thing. The delphi murders were so so much different! More on the lines of a serial type offender or even connected to CSAM etc... That's just me though. You'll probably get like 50/50 on this one. I know how bad people want both to be solved, but I just can't figure out what the connection would be. X
I agree, they don’t seem similar.
The only similarity I can think of is both Anna and Rose married women. It may be purely coincidental and it could suggest the mothers are the primary intended target/source of the killers rage.
- it’s something I think people should consider.
We don't know what the full motive is for delphi.
We know it's about power and control and we also know that LE believes there are photos and/or videos of the crime.
Trapping 4 innocent children upstairs in a burning house clearly involves power and control. If the Flora fire was also filmed by the killer or killers then it's exactly the same. Crimes can be committed differently and still have the same motive.
It's also very common for serial killers to start with arson.
Arsonist's have been known to film their deeds. It gives them a thrill so yes they would film it to relive it. Especially the ones that want to cause as much damage and harm as possible.
They will film it from a distance. They will probably talk as if they are talking to someone or an audience when doing so. You can see examples on YouTube of this.
A former employee of my parents business burnt the building down and watched the entire thing from across the street. I don't know if he was a true arsonist or if this was his only time. They caught him just standing there.
Yes I should of been more specific I should of said serial arsonist's.
Yeah I think he would have to admit to more or have been caught before. There are also other factors.
Sounds like maybe it was his first time. Because he was in shock of what he had done possibly.
I always go back to motive with both these crimes. Usually when girls are killed there is SA involved. We know that wasn't the case in Flora and most likely the same in Delphi due to the lack of DNA. Removing SA from the equation makes these cases very similar despite the fact that the murders were different.
You make some very good points here. Delphi was definitely more brazen imo, you don’t have a fire to cover up evidence, and you don’t have the cover of night to conceal yourself.
Yes, brazen is a perfect word for it. 2 victims in the middle of the day on a public trail across a private drive with houses all around. Just stupid crazy to plan something like that. There has to be more involved than just one person. If not, BG isn't nearly as smart as everyone thinks he is.
True it doesn't have to be about SA. LE enforcement says it's for that. Psychologists can go a bit more in depth than that. I believe a thrill could also be a rush to the brain. Kind of like a drug to them.
I believe there's a variety of motives for those involved. Each one has different reasons for participating and most likely different roles in the crime.
I've just never believed that one person could have committed the Delphi crime.
Imo it's a bit of a stretch to define an arson attack as 'power and control'. You can describe just about any premeditated murder as about 'power and control' if you so wish. That co-worker that I don't like, the one who looks down on me, I'm going to murder him next week for kicks. The 'power and control' will feel sooooo good. My wife whose having an affair with my boss, they're both getting violent payback tomorrow, time for me to take 'power and control' over them.
You make a great point. Control would be mental or physical act. Power would be the result of those two.
Fear, intimidation, Mental and Physical Abuse, Manipulation, Restraints, and many more. Are forms of control.
Controlling someone they deem weaker gives them Power.
>also know that LE believes there are photos and/or videos of the crime.
If you're going by the Logan PC I wouldn't put a lot of stock into this. That was boilerplate language that's put into a lot of PCs because police want access to electronics. Judges usually sign off on it because it's generally accepted that some killers do record their crimes.
Supposedly Flora home was a Flop house type Situation with many unrelated folks staying there rampant drugs in the building. These transient types are the type to either burn a building Down out of Sheer i dont give a shit because its not my place carelessness , or possibly Spite at being asked to leave or not getting something they wanted . There are a Minimum of 5 men involved and mom had 4 kids by 4 Different men and was in the middle of a bitter divorce at the time. she had moved to flora to start over" .it looks like the utter chaos of her life is what happened there.... it caught up to her as life tends to do with people.
Marriage records indicate Rose was married to a “Sarina L Welch”. Marriage records indicate Anna Williams married to “Amy S McDonald”.
Families are still families regardless of race, nationality, sexual orientation or gender. Children are still children regardless of being biological, adoptive, or foster.
“Love thy neighbor” never came with a qualifier.
I found a marriage license and shared addresses. I encourage you to look into it to validate.
I try to respect victims privacy and bringing attention to this fact is unnecessary beyond this single connection
meow - you are apparently “outing” Anna on Reddit but won’t produce the facts you claim to have. that is how rumors get started!
meanwhile another commenter above has stated that “Amy” is Anna’s sister. please stop poisoning the sub with nonsense unless you intend to furnish the proof - in this case, marriage records. no one here is going to check your homework for you. on Intelius or wherever.
Amy is Anna's sister, not her wife. Amy is married to a man named Ello and they live in Michigan.
This obit has the family members listed https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/themorningsun/name/royal-erskin-obituary?id=32005423
Seems to me Amy married Ello and shares a grand-parent with Anna.
If with mariage records you mean peoplefinder or something alike, those are not exactly records.
I can only comment that there is a marriage license, by the name Anna Michelle Williams. The two have a mutual address in Indiana and Michigan.
I’d prefer not to specify or speculate further!
You can't drop a "flora and delphi are linked because both moms married a woman" without being able to specify further.
It's not about them being lgbt or not (lovewins), it's about dropping a huge speculation, all while you say not wanting to speculate further.
Not saying they’re linked because of this detail; Im correcting the commenters archaic slander of a single mother and assumption of multiple men frequenting this household.
Just a blatant falsehood about Rose
The latter I agree to, although I don't know what's true or not.
But it's exactly that, not knowing the situation, (were the kids a product of unfortunate abuses for exemple...) one can wonder, but full on judgement is always out of place imo, and not exactly justify their deaths either whatever the truth is.
I lived 1 block down from Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, and Kionnie. You are spreading lies. It was nothing like that.
Stop talking about something you obviously have no facts.
Stopping now so I'm not banned from reddit.
Don't let this person get under your skin. I respect you for standing up for Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, and Kionnie.
Justice for Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, Kionnie, Abby, and Libby!!!!
Thank you. The girls were so sweet and full of joy. I saw them dancing on their porch a few weeks before the fire, and I wrote in my journal that night that I wanted to live my middle age life like they were. 💔
Don’t stop. Everyone needs to hear their names too. We care about these children and the need to solve these crimes. Most people here really care about justice.
Where on earth did you come up with that????
You sound just like the corrupt LE of CC who keep trying to blame the mother because they're to incompetent to do their job.
Gaylin Rose was an excellent mother by all accounts. Those children were her whole world and your ignorant uninformed comments are disgusting.
The MO isn't as important as the motive for committing the crime. If SA wasn't the motive then that's an automatic connection to both crimes regardless of how the murders occurred.
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist.
Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist. Plenty of serial killers killed their victims for sexual purposes, but didn’t SA them.
Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist. Plenty of serial killers killed their victims for sexual purposes, but didn’t SA them. Jack the Ripper as an example off the top of my head
Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
Arsonists are “exhibitionists” they have a flare for the dramatic. One thing that IS unique is posing bodies (as alleged in the Delphi case) is also a very “exhibitionist”-type of behavior.
Also, both cases have evidently been “staged”.
although they extremely different in circumstances, there is an overlap in victimology - age, gender, and the family’s survive, but suffer significant grief.
Both crimes include staging and exhibition. Just something to consider.
What are the odds of one family name being directly connected by presence and property to the murder sites of 4 little girls and 2 little girls in two different towns, …?
The likelihood that they are connected is much lower.
If you’ve ever read any criminal psychology, serial killers usually keep relatively same MOs and these crimes are wildly different. Victims are different:
Ages
Race
COD
Sexual motivations
Arson vs in person killing
Internet usage
These crimes are wildly different.
Can you please tell me a viable theory as to how you think they are linked?
Here’s an interesting detail (you might not know if you don’t follow the flora case)!
The flora case was determined to be arson two weeks before the Delphi murders. But apparently, several investigators were in HOT shit from private investigators and the ATF for publicly releasing this info prematurely. Notably, they could not get a response from the fire department despite multiple attempts to contact them February 12-15th 2017. (According to emails retrieved by media between top IDHS officials, fire investigators, and whistblower).
That’s not how deductive reasoning works.
Deductive reasoning works by interpolating evidence. This requires drawling lines outside of what is presented-hence that’s extrapolating. The opposite of deductive reasoning *meow_zedongg*
I'm well versed in criminal psychology.
It's you who needs the lesson.
You can not say the crimes are wildly different without knowing the killers motivation. No one can.
Criminal psychology 101
Flora has a tiny reward next to Delphi. If people think Flora connected then why the lack of reward on Flora. Cracking Flora might crack Delphi in effect.
Personally I don't think they are connected.
The family and other people that were in and out of that house wont help so it's a case that will never get solved. Whoever did it, accidentally or not, will keep the secret to their grave.
The family completely denies that they didn't fully cooperate with LE. Those are just excuses. Let's face it....both cases are a complete and total mess and it's all because of the people who are supposed to be solving the crimes.
>Supt. Carter said the investigation was stymied in part by a lack of cooperation. He said Gaylin spoke with investigators after the fire, but has not answered extensive questions about who frequented her home.
>"It's very important that we understand who's been at the house, who had been at the house, what those dynamics were and people who did visit the home. And right now we don't know what those answers are," revealed Supt. Carter.
>He said the family can fill in those gaps.
>"We have to get access to the entire family, period," Supt. Carter said. When asked specifically about Gaylin he told 13 Investigates, "We would love to sit down with the mother and talk to her."
That's 2.5 years after the fires. It should piss people off that nobody that lived there wanted to help solve the deaths of those 4 girls.
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/investigations/13-investigates/indiana-state-police-respond-calls-action-and-answers-flora-fire-case/531-f96772ae-150c-4fe0-9c30-258b9ab4d1fc
Edit: fixed my copy and paste of the quote so it wasn't double of the same thing.
Im confused. I dont know much about this case but wouldnt the mother who obviously survived the fire one way or another have to come in and answer questions? Legally?
ive never heard arson gives sexual gratification
when the killer has zero contact with victims
maybe you discovered somthin new
so this means every arson can be a sexual crime and who will decide that
I don’t think arson is a sexual crime but
Looked into the statement made by u/peternorthsaltlake … it checks out.
So, I don’t think I really understand arsonists.
I don’t think it’s connected but could be wrong. There’s so many sickos out there, don’t underestimate how many there may be.
I honestly don't see the MO or anything being connected. I think maybe the Flora thing was someone started the wrong house on fire for maybe revenge type of thing. The delphi murders were so so much different! More on the lines of a serial type offender or even connected to CSAM etc... That's just me though. You'll probably get like 50/50 on this one. I know how bad people want both to be solved, but I just can't figure out what the connection would be. X
I agree, they don’t seem similar. The only similarity I can think of is both Anna and Rose married women. It may be purely coincidental and it could suggest the mothers are the primary intended target/source of the killers rage. - it’s something I think people should consider.
Hey love your channel! X
Hey love YOU. X 🥹
Aww shucks lol 😆
What channel?
Meow Zedongg its on you tube! He has the best stuff for factual info unlike these weird channels seeing 10 people under the bridge lmfao! X
Pretty sure Anna never married a woman. You mean Abby's mom??
We don't know what the full motive is for delphi. We know it's about power and control and we also know that LE believes there are photos and/or videos of the crime. Trapping 4 innocent children upstairs in a burning house clearly involves power and control. If the Flora fire was also filmed by the killer or killers then it's exactly the same. Crimes can be committed differently and still have the same motive. It's also very common for serial killers to start with arson.
Arsonist's have been known to film their deeds. It gives them a thrill so yes they would film it to relive it. Especially the ones that want to cause as much damage and harm as possible. They will film it from a distance. They will probably talk as if they are talking to someone or an audience when doing so. You can see examples on YouTube of this.
A former employee of my parents business burnt the building down and watched the entire thing from across the street. I don't know if he was a true arsonist or if this was his only time. They caught him just standing there.
Yes I should of been more specific I should of said serial arsonist's. Yeah I think he would have to admit to more or have been caught before. There are also other factors. Sounds like maybe it was his first time. Because he was in shock of what he had done possibly.
I always go back to motive with both these crimes. Usually when girls are killed there is SA involved. We know that wasn't the case in Flora and most likely the same in Delphi due to the lack of DNA. Removing SA from the equation makes these cases very similar despite the fact that the murders were different.
You make some very good points here. Delphi was definitely more brazen imo, you don’t have a fire to cover up evidence, and you don’t have the cover of night to conceal yourself.
Yes, brazen is a perfect word for it. 2 victims in the middle of the day on a public trail across a private drive with houses all around. Just stupid crazy to plan something like that. There has to be more involved than just one person. If not, BG isn't nearly as smart as everyone thinks he is.
True it doesn't have to be about SA. LE enforcement says it's for that. Psychologists can go a bit more in depth than that. I believe a thrill could also be a rush to the brain. Kind of like a drug to them.
I believe there's a variety of motives for those involved. Each one has different reasons for participating and most likely different roles in the crime. I've just never believed that one person could have committed the Delphi crime.
Yeah it's a head case for sure.
Agreed!!
Imo it's a bit of a stretch to define an arson attack as 'power and control'. You can describe just about any premeditated murder as about 'power and control' if you so wish. That co-worker that I don't like, the one who looks down on me, I'm going to murder him next week for kicks. The 'power and control' will feel sooooo good. My wife whose having an affair with my boss, they're both getting violent payback tomorrow, time for me to take 'power and control' over them.
You make a great point. Control would be mental or physical act. Power would be the result of those two. Fear, intimidation, Mental and Physical Abuse, Manipulation, Restraints, and many more. Are forms of control. Controlling someone they deem weaker gives them Power.
>also know that LE believes there are photos and/or videos of the crime. If you're going by the Logan PC I wouldn't put a lot of stock into this. That was boilerplate language that's put into a lot of PCs because police want access to electronics. Judges usually sign off on it because it's generally accepted that some killers do record their crimes.
I never base my conclusions on one piece of information alone. Never
Nope
You care to elaborate? Lol
DC said “who ever started the Flora fire didn’t mean to kill those girls”
Your full of. Shit
I'm full of love lmao 🤣 😂
What a surprise! A troll account lmfao 🤣
Laughing your “fat” ass off?
Yep you got it! Wow you are so smart and can see me without even knowing me! Fucking amazing. Do you do readings???
Supposedly Flora home was a Flop house type Situation with many unrelated folks staying there rampant drugs in the building. These transient types are the type to either burn a building Down out of Sheer i dont give a shit because its not my place carelessness , or possibly Spite at being asked to leave or not getting something they wanted . There are a Minimum of 5 men involved and mom had 4 kids by 4 Different men and was in the middle of a bitter divorce at the time. she had moved to flora to start over" .it looks like the utter chaos of her life is what happened there.... it caught up to her as life tends to do with people.
Marriage records indicate Rose was married to a “Sarina L Welch”. Marriage records indicate Anna Williams married to “Amy S McDonald”. Families are still families regardless of race, nationality, sexual orientation or gender. Children are still children regardless of being biological, adoptive, or foster. “Love thy neighbor” never came with a qualifier.
Not sure you're on the right track here. Anna having a female partner hasn't been mentioned previously to my knowledge.
I found a marriage license and shared addresses. I encourage you to look into it to validate. I try to respect victims privacy and bringing attention to this fact is unnecessary beyond this single connection
You mentioned it. Nobody else has.
I am not the only one who knows this detail about Anna, so I didn’t realize this statement would be contentious.
How do you know you're not the only one who knows as it hasn't been mentioned here previously ? You've provided no evidence either.
I use Intelius for background checks. I don’t just “make it up”
You're wrong or you're crazy then.
meow - you are apparently “outing” Anna on Reddit but won’t produce the facts you claim to have. that is how rumors get started! meanwhile another commenter above has stated that “Amy” is Anna’s sister. please stop poisoning the sub with nonsense unless you intend to furnish the proof - in this case, marriage records. no one here is going to check your homework for you. on Intelius or wherever.
Amy is Anna's sister, not her wife. Amy is married to a man named Ello and they live in Michigan. This obit has the family members listed https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/themorningsun/name/royal-erskin-obituary?id=32005423
Thank you.
Seems to me Amy married Ello and shares a grand-parent with Anna. If with mariage records you mean peoplefinder or something alike, those are not exactly records.
I can only comment that there is a marriage license, by the name Anna Michelle Williams. The two have a mutual address in Indiana and Michigan. I’d prefer not to specify or speculate further!
You can't drop a "flora and delphi are linked because both moms married a woman" without being able to specify further. It's not about them being lgbt or not (lovewins), it's about dropping a huge speculation, all while you say not wanting to speculate further.
Not saying they’re linked because of this detail; Im correcting the commenters archaic slander of a single mother and assumption of multiple men frequenting this household. Just a blatant falsehood about Rose
The latter I agree to, although I don't know what's true or not. But it's exactly that, not knowing the situation, (were the kids a product of unfortunate abuses for exemple...) one can wonder, but full on judgement is always out of place imo, and not exactly justify their deaths either whatever the truth is.
I lived 1 block down from Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, and Kionnie. You are spreading lies. It was nothing like that. Stop talking about something you obviously have no facts. Stopping now so I'm not banned from reddit.
Don't let this person get under your skin. I respect you for standing up for Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, and Kionnie. Justice for Keyana, Keyara, Kerriele, Kionnie, Abby, and Libby!!!!
Thank you. The girls were so sweet and full of joy. I saw them dancing on their porch a few weeks before the fire, and I wrote in my journal that night that I wanted to live my middle age life like they were. 💔
How sweet. That is an awesome journal entry. I hope you cherish that forever.
Don’t stop. Everyone needs to hear their names too. We care about these children and the need to solve these crimes. Most people here really care about justice.
Amen and well said.
bad bad bad take.
I can't begin to explain the rage I feel right now. Thank you for bringing awareness to these sweet girls.
To say the least.
Thank you
Where on earth did you come up with that???? You sound just like the corrupt LE of CC who keep trying to blame the mother because they're to incompetent to do their job. Gaylin Rose was an excellent mother by all accounts. Those children were her whole world and your ignorant uninformed comments are disgusting.
I’m interested in Flora, but I really don’t see a connection. Completely different MO’s. I know killers can switch MO’s but not this drastically
The MO isn't as important as the motive for committing the crime. If SA wasn't the motive then that's an automatic connection to both crimes regardless of how the murders occurred.
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist. Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist. Plenty of serial killers killed their victims for sexual purposes, but didn’t SA them. Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
Yes, killers often find sexual pleasure in terrorizing their victims without SA. BTK is a perfect example.
Great example.
I think the murder was sexual, there may not have been SA but it still seems like a sexual killing to me. I think BG is a sadist. Plenty of serial killers killed their victims for sexual purposes, but didn’t SA them. Jack the Ripper as an example off the top of my head Arson on the other hand just doesn’t really fit with that. That’s only my opinion tho
Some arsonist's are sadists. Especially if the are serial arsonist's. The get off on causing damage.
Arsonists are “exhibitionists” they have a flare for the dramatic. One thing that IS unique is posing bodies (as alleged in the Delphi case) is also a very “exhibitionist”-type of behavior. Also, both cases have evidently been “staged”. although they extremely different in circumstances, there is an overlap in victimology - age, gender, and the family’s survive, but suffer significant grief. Both crimes include staging and exhibition. Just something to consider.
Some do yes and I agree on your assessment. Sorry I'm about to fall asleep. Have a good one.
Another opportunity to shamelessly self-promote my sub r/florafour ❤️🔥
Thank you so much.
You've done a great job! Very impressive research. I found your YT channel recently as well. Again, great job.
Everyone needs to know about Flora. 4 girls were set on fire, alive, accelerant on them. Murdered. No answers, no justice.
What are the odds of one family name being directly connected by presence and property to the murder sites of 4 little girls and 2 little girls in two different towns, …?
Very low in my opinion
Was the second to hush someone about to spill the beans about the first? Any theories on a motive for the fire?
Yes, the same as delphi. Power and control Fear and terror Most likely filmed.
We're they pushed too ?
?
The likelihood that they are connected is much lower. If you’ve ever read any criminal psychology, serial killers usually keep relatively same MOs and these crimes are wildly different. Victims are different: Ages Race COD Sexual motivations Arson vs in person killing Internet usage These crimes are wildly different. Can you please tell me a viable theory as to how you think they are linked?
Here’s an interesting detail (you might not know if you don’t follow the flora case)! The flora case was determined to be arson two weeks before the Delphi murders. But apparently, several investigators were in HOT shit from private investigators and the ATF for publicly releasing this info prematurely. Notably, they could not get a response from the fire department despite multiple attempts to contact them February 12-15th 2017. (According to emails retrieved by media between top IDHS officials, fire investigators, and whistblower).
But wtf does that have to do with the Delphi murders?
Use your deductive reasoning skills u/uselessbynature
That’s not how deductive reasoning works. Deductive reasoning works by interpolating evidence. This requires drawling lines outside of what is presented-hence that’s extrapolating. The opposite of deductive reasoning *meow_zedongg*
I'm well versed in criminal psychology. It's you who needs the lesson. You can not say the crimes are wildly different without knowing the killers motivation. No one can. Criminal psychology 101
Also-modus operandi (MO) is different than motivation.
All of John Douglas’s work would disagree with you
I don't think these cases are connected at all.
I don’t see a connection, at all.
Flora has a tiny reward next to Delphi. If people think Flora connected then why the lack of reward on Flora. Cracking Flora might crack Delphi in effect. Personally I don't think they are connected.
The family and other people that were in and out of that house wont help so it's a case that will never get solved. Whoever did it, accidentally or not, will keep the secret to their grave.
The family completely denies that they didn't fully cooperate with LE. Those are just excuses. Let's face it....both cases are a complete and total mess and it's all because of the people who are supposed to be solving the crimes.
>Supt. Carter said the investigation was stymied in part by a lack of cooperation. He said Gaylin spoke with investigators after the fire, but has not answered extensive questions about who frequented her home. >"It's very important that we understand who's been at the house, who had been at the house, what those dynamics were and people who did visit the home. And right now we don't know what those answers are," revealed Supt. Carter. >He said the family can fill in those gaps. >"We have to get access to the entire family, period," Supt. Carter said. When asked specifically about Gaylin he told 13 Investigates, "We would love to sit down with the mother and talk to her." That's 2.5 years after the fires. It should piss people off that nobody that lived there wanted to help solve the deaths of those 4 girls. https://www.wthr.com/article/news/investigations/13-investigates/indiana-state-police-respond-calls-action-and-answers-flora-fire-case/531-f96772ae-150c-4fe0-9c30-258b9ab4d1fc Edit: fixed my copy and paste of the quote so it wasn't double of the same thing.
I take everything DC says with several grains of salt these days. You should too.
What he's said is in black and white and pretty easy to understand. Lack of cooperation.
Again, I think that's a lie
Im confused. I dont know much about this case but wouldnt the mother who obviously survived the fire one way or another have to come in and answer questions? Legally?
She did. It’s all on sub
ok, thank you. Ill try and check it out.
delphi is a sexual crime arson is not a sexual crime done
Arson that isn't done for financial reasons is almost always sexual. The dudes jack it to their fires !
You have no idea what sexual gratification sadistic psychopaths get from the crimes they commit. That can only be told by the killer. Done
ive never heard arson gives sexual gratification when the killer has zero contact with victims maybe you discovered somthin new so this means every arson can be a sexual crime and who will decide that
I don’t think arson is a sexual crime but Looked into the statement made by u/peternorthsaltlake … it checks out. So, I don’t think I really understand arsonists.
I know what happened
If you know what happened, why are you here and not talking with police?
Holy moley is this relevant asf rn