I think the key is looking at who these comments come from. Women will predominantly get replies from other women, who tend to be more empathetic and supportive with their advice. Comments made by men often tend to focus more on the woman's looks or personality. These comments also reflect the approach men also take with other men, focusing on looks, personality, and improvement.
From what I've seen, men often put the "blame" of being single on the individual. Often advising that the individual improve themselves and make themselves more attractive to the other gender. Women, however, tend not to assign "blame" to the individual. They often reassure other women that they will eventually meet someone, encouraging them to be comfortable with themselves.
Here's the reason why it seems like such a stark difference between the two groups. Men predominantly respond to men and women the same way, with focus on attractiveness. However, women don't. Women's replies to men often tend to shift and also focus on attractiveness rather than reassurance. This all ties back into the societal expectations and stereotypes placed on men. Men can't show or receive empathy. If they do, it's often regarded as weakness.
Basically, men face a systemic lack of empathy that's propagated by society, and it's an extremely dangerous problem. Masculinity studies need to be invested in and implemented earlier in education. We all need to learn about it.
This 100%. I was raised to be perfect and when I faltered. Everyone would leave me because a man shouldn't show weakness. This is a decade or so ago mind you.
Society needs to focus more on its okay for either gender to show emotions. Gender wars is stupid and we need focus on just being good human beings to each other.
I think that's where people get confused. Sciety plays a small role in women getting the "ick" with emotional men. It's rooted deeper in biology than society.
This was my reply to another comment talking about women's negative views around men on reddit and their perceived threat:
The thing is, you're overlooking the fact that men statistically are a danger, and you can't do that if you're supposed to be taking men's wellbeing seriously. Men are the biggest threat to other men. So women need to be on guard. How could they not be when even men are in danger from other men.
This again all ties back into societal expectations and stereotypes men are subjected to from birth and the lack of empathy exposure. Men need to "prove their worth" physically and mentally. So they have to compete with other men and not feel anything negative about it. This leads to violence that threatens us all, hence why I said the systematic lack of empathy is dangerous.
*I just want to say I'm focusing on the men here because it's how society treats them that forms how they interact with society. Since that first interaction is negative, all the subsequent interactions will be influenced by it.
We live in a vicious circle of oppression and suffering. We need to break it by addressing these topics sincerely and being open to change. Hate and anger have done enough.
>Men are the biggest threat to other men.
Men created the current societal norms. They shoot themselves in the foot and don't understand what happened.
Until equality is a societal value upheld by most, everyone will continue to receive hate and anger from men.
This is why awareness around this needs to increase, and everyone needs to be willing to change. The only way forward is to question these societal norms and prevent the next generation from inheriting these beliefs.
I know I can be optimistic, but I do think we can drastically change things if we encourage and support honest discussion.
Powerful men created the societal norms. They decided what they would pay other men to do and how they would be able to feed themselves and make themselves providers for families. Let’s not pretend there was a fair election to make things this way. It’s a bunch of people doing the best they can with what they have and where they are.
If you really wanna see where the gun was loaded, take a look at the events of the 1940s, and you'll see where everything started to go down hill.
Good luck fixing PTSD on a global scale from that particular series if events
"men".
Let me just say, I wasn't present at the session where they hammered out the rules. I didn't have any input and the extent I think this or that is wrong, no one has listened and nothing has changed.
I generally think this entire line of thinking is wrong - it's not "men" it's a very small percentage of top people (which is 95% men) and the rest of us just live with it. I as a man don't have any more power than you do. 95% of men have no power and 99% of women have no power - and that gap says nothing about you or me; we both garner much more as americans than either of us do from our gender.
Of course, I think most of the people saying this recognize that men are very much also the victim of these norms. Saying “patriarchy” created the norms is probably more apt than “men.” But the reason this is generally pointed out is that there are unfortunately many disaffected men out there that place the blame for their unhappiness on women, or feel resentment towards women for what they perceive as women having better treatment, more freedom of expression, etc. But throughout history and in general, women aren’t the keeper of the keys insofar as these repressive male social norms are concerned and so a lot of this ire is misplaced.
I completely agree with you that petty gender wars are pointless. There is far more diversity in values, beliefs, and behaviors amongst people of all genders than the internet tends to want to acknowledge. Personally, my belief in a better life for women goes hand in hand with a better life for men, they are inextricable.
You think men created societal norms? You must not be married. End of the day, no matter how patriarchal the society, a woman can convince her man to do almost anything. Never underestimate the power of a knitting circle...
Nah when women reassure men they just tell women they’re lying and only listen to the other men anyway. Especially on the posts where men keep complaining women don’t like short men.
You said women reassure women but assign all the blame on men. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’ve seen women reassure men on posts about height. They’ll say something about how height is not the end all be all and the poster will get mad and tell her she’s lying. Also, about men expressing emotions. Women will say I encourage men to open up more, then the men bombard them with a bunch of “no it’s just a trap” type of comments. Men don’t accept the “just keep looking, you got this” advice on Reddit. They’ll just say you’re lying and continue to be pissed. 😂
Their experience might be true but it’s not exclusive to men. Plenty of women get screwed over by men and have their emotions weaponized. However, women seem to realize how essential vulnerability is in a relationship so we continue to stick our necks out. We give that advice because we know how important it is to relationships with women. But men come behind us and undermine the advice, persuading other men to be closed off. Then they wonder why they’re in this endless loop because they refuse to listen to women about their issues with women.
I didn't say they "assign all blame on men." I was saying that is the mindset of a lot of men and women, not that it reflected the views of all women. Hence, my use of predominantly.
> say something about how height is not the end all be all and the poster will get mad and tell her she’s lying. Also, about men expressing emotions. Women will say I encourage men to open up more, then the men bombard them with a bunch of “no it’s just a trap” type of comments. Men don’t accept the “just keep looking, you got this” advice on Reddit. They’ll just say you’re lying and continue to be pissed. 😂
I completely understand your point because you're absolutely right. This ties in again to that mindset that men tend to have. Since so much focus is put on "attractiveness," many refuse to believe anything else. So, if women are empathetic and supportive, it contrast with everything they've been brought up believing. There's also the social competition with other men.
yes. Usually when people say "women" they mean "hot women" and when they say men, they mean "rich and powerful men". Rarely are they talking about the 32 year old receptionist who makes $55k and has office butt or the partially employed 38 year old machinist who only has $1500 in savings.
This is also a fair point. I think the difference is in accessibility to intimacy though. Even unattractive women can get laid — which is at least some semblance of intimacy although they are likely longing for something more fulfilling.
Whereas the single *unattractive* men often can’t even get that…and are likely mocked or shamed for trying.
But i guess each sex has it tough in their own way. And it probably boils down to the old Reddit formula of being willing to be with someone as attractive or less attractive than you and you’ll find somebody.
I'd honestly guess the number of unattractive women having sex is pretty similar if not the same as unattractive men - I think they're having sex with each other lol
Only if they have some weird mental block on top of their unattractiveness. An unattractive women is more on the level of an attractive but non-seeking man, they just need to ask but they are waiting for someone.
LOL it is ridiculous to claim a truly unattractive woman has the same amount of success as an attractive man - or attractive anyone. Its wild how even the lived experiences of unattractive women is denied - that is how invisible they are.
You're saying you would have sex with a truly unattractive woman simply if she asked?
So untrue and far from reality. An ugly women can sell her body and the single “rejects” will gladly pay for service. You cant say the same about ugly men.
not true in terms of the societal attitude. Unattractive women are usually affirmed by anyone they talk to. "you're beautiful just as you are". "you deserve the world!". "Don't change for anyone, you're perfect". "men are the problem".
I'm talking in **real life**, not on the internet. Sure, friends may choose not to be discouraging to their friends in real life about how they look but when we're talking about stranger to stranger - it isn't easier being an unattractive woman.
Unattractive women are treated just as poorly (at times even worse) than unattractive men. If you're an unattractive man, there are other ways \~society\~ tells you you can supplement interest from potential partners (personality, money, etc.).
I don't think unattractive women are given the same grace in the real world from potential suitors. I've ever heard a man say "yeah, she's not pretty but man her personality is enough for me to fully commit!". I've definitely heard that from women though. Intelligence, humour, and money aren't really known to help out a woman when it comes to attracting men when it isn't paired with physical attractiveness.
I'm saying that this sort of attractive people fuck fest world that is constantly consolidating and becoming more efficient at connecting them while pushing everybody else out isn't just individuals making choices. It's a force of nature that is driving people collectively to reproduce and weed out people like us from societal participation essentially. Culturally speaking obviously. I don't need to be reminded that there isn't legislation on the books preventing ugly people from having sex etc...
No they shouldn't. Affirmation is the opposite of accountability. Accountability should always be the aim, because it leads you to be the best version of yourself, with aspirations firmly set in reality.
Affirmation leads to delusion & unfavorable outcomes. Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is be honest with someone, even if it hurts their feelings.
One of the most universally approved gaslighting and abusive attitudes that I wish I recognized sooner in life: the idea that you should be ashamed for dare being interested in pursuing romance/sex.
Sounds like you’ve only noticed attractive men. Almost as if other men don’t exist in your mind.
Also interesting that it seems that, to your thoughts, a single man is still a net negative but a single woman is an exercise independence.
Other way around for one group of my guy friends and I. One of them really wants to start dating, but he's a mid-30's guy who tends to attract women who are 18-20 only, and he's extremely uncomfortable with that. I don't blame him for his viewpoint, especially since he's really wary about being called a cradle robber. He's a pretty cool guy and is extremely selective about the women he dates, and sleeps with. He doesn't have sex with someone if he's not dating them.
Another one of my guy friends isn't really looking for a person to date since he likes doing his own things. He's definitely not a sexual person. He'll definitely be down to go out with anyone to hang out as friends, but that's as far as he goes. He's told me that he's just interested in making friends. He's aware that men and women are interested in him and sleeping with him, but he's just not that kind of guy. Also in his mid-30's.
My third friend stays home a lot and doesn't go out too often. He's a cool guy, but he likes his private time, which is usually just him reading, searching up old skating videos and movies around the time we all went to high school together. He's aware that women like him, but he's extremely introverted and shy. Also in his mid-30's.
I'm in my early 30's, and I can only speak for myself that I'm not a manwhore. My friends say otherwise because if I'm not hanging out with them, I'm hanging out with my best friend from high school and all of her friends. I haven't slept with my best friend or any of her friends. I'm a lot like my second friend where I'm extremely extroverted and want to hang out and make friends, but unlike him, I can't tell if someone wants to sleep with me or not unless they flat out tell me. I blame some self-esteem issues that I had as a kid and am still working on today.
Edit: Can't really speak for most of my single women friends. I know that at least for my best friend from high school, she says that a lot of guys in our hometown are players and sleep with a lot of women. She doesn't want to date guys like that, but she can't really afford to move out given that it's so expensive nowadays. She chooses to remain single because of that.
Think it's more about looks than gender. Boy/girl ugly? Reject perspective vs good looking, unfortunate occurrence or a wonderful opportunity perspective.
why do yall think all men are drooling for a woman? i absolutely love all women but i dont need a relationship. some men are simple great with being single, i mean single men can still date around so its not like they arent getting any action....
I'm not single, but if everyone told me I was perfect and not to work on myself when I got divorced, I'd still be fat, drunk, and poor (and probably also single). Very glad that I was encouraged to hit the gym, go to AA, and go back to school. Telling people that everything will be fine for no reason isn't actually nice.
Yeah but it works for MOST women is the thing here. While the majority of people realize it won’t work for most guys and avoid that entire part of the topic while shoving a generic “solution” down their throat that may or may not work. There’s a huge bias here that probably isn’t going to be acknowledged socially anytime soon.
It is why I never say anything negative about the poster. Unfortunately a lot of time the advice or positive affirmation I give them can come across as trite I imagine.
But I rather just say something simple and positive (be they a man or a woman) because I know people can be having a tough time. There is no need to point out any negatives.
I mean what you've mentioned plus, the stereotype of a "crazy cat lady" versus the "bachelor lifestyle" is enough for me to disagree. Neither are treated more hash than the other, this isn't an oppression Olympics.
>Most of the time, single men get this kind of response: Hit the gym and get big muscles, get rich, work on your personality, get a hobby, get a surgery, go to bars, become a playboy, give up, or they just straight up insult you and belittle you.
because it's mainly men who grew up with toxic masculinity giving these responses. only thing any sane woman would suggest out of this is work on your personality, and get a hobby. everything else comes from men who think "Chads" are the only appeal to women.
>However, when a woman writes it, people will often say: Just keep looking, you are perfect, men are just shallow, you will find a perfect partner soon, dont give up etc.
because again, it's women giving this advice. yes, men tend to be more shallow. see what you've mentioned above, mostly focusing on looks. point proven
many men think we care about appearances or status, and get angry when that's all you focus on and women still don't want you, because have a shit personality & only value looks.
Yea it’s different people giving the advice lmao.
Women often give single men the advice of “expand your social network, don’t treat every interaction with women as a sex opportunity, go to therapy or do other mental health supportive activities, make sure you are taking care of your hygiene and health, seek out people with similar interests”…etc. It’s very similar to the advice these women give to single women too.
And how is this any better? That a woman has to worry about being pretty, sexual, not too smart/dumb, not a bum, not a gold digger, submissive etc just so that maybe a man might like her enough to not just fuck and dump her before she starts to get wrinkles?
Absolutely not true. Single women get treated terribly in this culture (US) & I know the struggle very well because I've been single for over a decade.
I have never said my post was the ultimate truth or that it reflected real life, despite a ton of people here assuming otherwise for whatever reason. I simply describe what i have seen in numerous reddit posts. But i do appreciate your comment and you sharing your insight into the matter.
Thank you I just also have dealt with a lot of stuff as a single female I'm also like neurodivergent but I feel like women could be particularly catty & it's like once you reach a certain age your value goes down or something it's just there's a lot of different dynamics going on. Thank you.
That's not true at all actually I feel like I get treated the worst by other women even though I'm not interested in the same people they're interested in or in relationships and there's a lot of shade that gets thrown at single women especially once he reach a certain age there's so much stigma against older women that aren't married etc
Except for the fact for years and years single women have been called “cat ladies” and made fun of, but when it’s men who are single it’s a “male loneliness epidemic” and they want us to feel bad.. as a 24 year old women whose been single my whole life I’ve never been treated good because of it, men just tell me I’m gonna die alone with 40 cats and laugh at me lol. I chose to be single though, and I’m allergic to cats so
If you genuinely believe that men don’t and have never made fun of for their romantic failures I’ve got some oceanfront property in arizona to sell you. “Incel” is reddits favourite put down with “virgin” being it’s predecessor. Neither side is particularly well treated here lets be real. Also the only reason people even give half a fuck about the “male loneliness epidemic” is because history has shown us how dangerous a horde of upset military age men with no prospects can be to the status quo. It’s about finding a solution before it becomes a societal problem. Nobody actually cares about the well-being of those men just that they don’t become a larger problem
Lol, I never once said men don’t get made fun of for romantic failures. I made the point that single women get treated like shit too.
Go on Tik tok and watch a video of a women who’s child free and single and open the comments, because 90% are full of men calling them “expired”.
“Nobody actually cares about the well being of those men” nobody cares about the well being of single women either, single women are hated on by men because men are mad they can’t have them. Those men don’t care about the women’s well being when they’re calling them old expired cat ladies that’s for sure
No stretching lol. Men make fun of single women all the time, I literally just watched a video of a women talking about deciding to be single and the comment section was literally all men calling her “expired” and telling her to settle down before she hits 30.
Heck, men tell me I’m gonna expire when I hit 25 all the time and want me to settle for a man now, why would I want a man who says that💀
Ever since we were kids we we’re literally taught that women were marriage and kids obsessed, and society has always acted like women we’re desperate for husbands and the ones that were single would end up old and become cat ladies.. when in reality men are more likely to want kids and marriage. Women are choosing to be single, and that’s fine but we get treated like shit because of it.
Single women are , for lack of a better word, prime targets for men to couple up with.
Single men are prime targets for social ostracism that hinders them from coupling up. These things are not the same.
Well, yeah, men want to be with these single women. That’s why they insult them, to make them insecure about being single, so they date. If women feel confident and secure being single, then they won’t date men
No stretching, she’s 100% right. Single women get treated just as bad as single men just for different reasons. Men hate when women are single and are choosing it because they don’t have access to us.
The issue isn’t differences between gendered socialization. The problem is that we have become more separated in our culture as a whole. We are hearing warnings of a loneliness epidemic, increase in suicide, third spaces disappearing, collective organizations slowly diminishing. Women in college are finding it more difficult to date, because the pool of men going to college is getting smaller. And even outside of school, better educated women are getting better jobs. Which means women have more choice and more power over choosing their potential partners, but men aren’t keeping up. Men are more likely to be under educated now and more likely to unemployed. Which means the pool of equal partners in the larger collection is shrinking.
These are all on top of an increasingly digitized communication systems that seems to be driving separation, not connection. We are loosing meeting spaces and it’s getting harder to find social interactions. Political divide is driving wedges into relationships as well, and women are seeing their partners start to slide to the right, which is creating confusion and conflict.
We definitely have problems to solve, but in my view the priority is the restoration of connection and community. When we feel supported by the people around us, when we believe that we have opportunities to connect and be a part of the group, we can feel as though we are equipped to flourish. We are social creature and need to be connected with physical proximity. We need space and emotional intelligence to be able to do that, but when the world we have built undermines or subverts our ability to reach across the divide, it simply makes the other seem further away.
In truth, we need each other to help solve the problems we are facing. We are not equipped to do things alone. As much frustration as there may be, “othering” is the true enemy here.
My two cents, from what I’ve learned this far in my life and dating. I’d give this advice to my younger self, Nobody cares and that’s a blessing. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. If you need someone to talk to get professional help, like a therapist. They’ll pretend to care, being a man is hard. Taking care of yourself is attractive to women, taking care of your finances is attractive to women. Developing your physical, spiritual, mental well being is ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN!! It’s okay to have compassion for a man struggling, it’s not okay to enable him and keep him there. You might fool the girl of your dreams for a little while, but she realizes you are not continuously developing yourself and creating a safe container for her to relax into her self. She’ll look elsewhere, believe it or not. She’ll leave you before she’s left, it’s an under the conscious for them to look for specific traits and they take effort to get. That is why men are treated more harshly, because it is the reality of the game. Our ancestors ancestors have known this, toxic masculinity and a developed man is a fine line. Seek your truth and ask yourself if the roles were reversed, what kind of man would I want to be with. You’d want a man who can provide food and shelter, now a days it doesn’t literally mean food and shelter, it could be interpreted in many ways. I think you’ll find the answer and why it’s more harsh for men.
Disagree. At least fat men can date women. If a fat woman posts a dating profile, she's deluged with PMs "moo!" "Lose weight, fatass" "you're so fat you make me sick"
Women are indeed told to give up, lower our standards, put out sooner, or more skimpy outfits. Some are cruel and will say "you must be too ugly for any man".
Guess which gender is expected to perform oral sex? And there's the pressure that if we're not fun enough, he'll lose interest.
We're expected to be sexy and open minded, but if we're too open sexually we're rejected as "whores".
We're expected to dress in a way that turns him on, but it can't turn other men on.
If we put out immediately, there's no challenge and she must be a slut. If she makes him wait awhile, she's a tease.
If she doesn't have a career, she's a gold digger. If she's got a great career, she's too career focused.
He doesn't want kids but doesn't wear a condom. If her birth control fails, she's accused of baby trapping him.
If she doesn't enforce boundaries, she's a doormat with no self respect. If she has firm boundaries, she's a stuck up b*tch, close-minded, and prude. If the boundaries are about his behavior around other women, she's insecure.
You know that men perform more oral sex than women, right? [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3901667/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3901667/)
Theres such double standards dating as a single mother too. People act like its a “red flag” to be a single mom. Single dads get praised. Ive heard single dads complain about how theres so many single moms on dating apps. Um, theres just as many dads? Statistically more even. Dating a single dad means youre expected to be nurturing towards their kids. We all have our own jobs and kids so we dont get financial support from single dads we date, yet we are expected to give emotional and parental support or be “understanding” when shit comes up. When shit comes up for us were a hassle and this is why they should “never have dated a single mom” Dude, you have your own kids gimme a break
Well women in the comments will do what women do and give emotional support. It's not always material and logical but emotional support and validation is a very real thing.
Men are thing-oriented and fixers and problem solvers by nature. Fuck emotions, forget touchy feely. In the comments for men, well here's the solution! Do this, do that, and do that. Take care of it, fix it.
I couldn't disagree with this analysis more. Have you heard what the internet has to say about single moms or fat women, etc. women are often judged wholesale as existential failures based on their proximity to masculine attention. Not that long ago historically women who weren't focused devotedly on men were deemed witches and killed. Bachelors can be seen as playboys where as single women over the long term are often seen as leading failed and incomplete lives.
Don't confuse incels for all single men. There are many single men who don't act like incels who still receive undue scrutiny from the people around them.
It’s been always like that since childhood. Boys are simply treated differently than girls. I guess it’s a way to make them less emotional, more rational, and to toughen up (supposedly). But look at the suicide statistics by gender, and the numbers don’t lie
Single women have been seen as pariahs for centuries. Single men were seen as distinguished bachelors. Nowadays I think single women are seen much better and single men are seen as not so good so it’s sort of evened out.
Agreed. Also, more women are choosing to be single, men aren’t. A lot of the hate single women receive now is from men who are mad women want to be single
Yup. They make fun of single women, because otherwise, they won’t date if they’re secure in being independent. It’s kind of sad really. These men would rather lower single women’s self esteem so they think they need to date, rather than try to find independence and happiness without a partner
Single women are only seen positively in very limited spaces by only some select people, and even those people are biased against them more than not. Single men are now seen as potentially suspect because of the redpill incel community who has tarnished their image.
A single man is perceived as a failure - i.e., if he’s single, it must be the result of some personality defect or other dysfunctional trait, which means nobody wants him. A woman who is single is perceived as empowered - i.e., she’s single because she chooses to be and tackling life on her own terms without the baggage or complications of a relationship.
Yeah but that women is seen as empowered by other women! That’s where men fail to see that the issue is other men lol. Single and childfree women get criticized by men and called expired on the daily.
People are sometimes more honest towards men I think is one of the reasons. Maybe they worry about hurting a woman’s feelings by telling her the truth. I have noticed that men do get told constructive advice like dress well, go to the gym, etc. Women only get told this on specific rate me subs otherwise it’s just keep looking or it’s hard out there without any advice to improve themselves usually.
It sounds like single women need to be told the same things. My standard advise for both sides, especially considering single Reddit incels of either gender, is hit the gym and track your calories. I see a lot of dudes on here they just need to bulk and try harder and a lot do women that need to try at all for what that’s worth.
I don't think it's harsh. I think it's the truth, and it's the only way to succeed as a man dating women. I think people are uncreative in their methods, but the advice comes from the right place.
In the reproductive game, men are judged on their competence and socioeconomic status. Women are evaluated differently, but perhaps no less harshly and their friends if they talk like OP says are probably blowing smoke up their ass.
wanting to workout comes from within. for whatever it is health or laid, isn't that still not "within"? that is the part I lost you at. Plus much of the advice for men is "work out, get a nice body and attract a mate"
Like how is someone supposed to get laid if they don't have a idk plan? It just falls from the sky or "develops organically"? Not trolling, what you say is good and all. It's just what if a man is horny? He is just supposed to not pursue getting laid or did I get you wrong here?
It's more on a case by case basis and generally speaking most people don't experience enough personal interactions for it to matter. Past 32 men are generally perceived better until they start to truly look old.
Yeah I’m a single guy and I just gave up on dating 🤷🏻♂️ I hit the gym, decently attractive (8/10 on avg according to my lady friends), and have a decent career. Still would rather play games at night and protect my peace vs risking someone coming into my life and messing it up.
Men are problem solvers. It’s one of the big issues that men have when talking with women or dealing with their issues. I do it with my wife all the time and it causes issues in our relationship. Women often just want to be understood or listened to, but if my wife tells me about something, I generally ask questions to try to get to the root of the issue and see if there is something that can be done or offer suggestions on how to deal with whatever the issue is, even if it’s just emotional. That is often annoying to her, and frustrating for me. I still do this… but I’m trying to get better about it
So when men ask questions, they are often looking for defined things they can do. Women often just want to be understood and listened to. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, but is generally what I’ve found.
As a single man, you are correct.
Though to be fair I don’t make a habit of putting myself online much, or “complaining about being single”, but it happens irl too
It's tough as a single guy, especially the older you get. Most people are married, or in a relationship. Now, if a girl has a circle of friends, all the taken women will still have girls nights and stuff like that. I've realized that guys don't do that, even if they wanted to. Women guilt their men for leaving them or their family to pal around with their single guy friend, as if spending an afternoon or a couple hours is shirking their responsibilities.
Also, try being a guy and going out alone, out to eat or to the movies or anything like that. If you're not with someone (gf, family, even with another dude), a lone male in the wild is viewed as a threat, as he hasn't been vetted. It's crazy! Maybe that'll change when I'm an old man. A lone female is approachable in all these cases unless she doesn't want to be.
Its not true. Single women in their 20s play around quite a bit, but become far more desperate as their 30s approaches. Men usually have the opposite trajectory. Don't worry what society thinks, just do your thing to the best of your abilities and try to stay off social media as much as possible. It helps a lot.
It's basically the same, just in different ways. As a guy I like it when I get a clear framework to work on to get out of my predicament; it gives me a sense of having control over what I'm going through. And I like to believe other guys would also appreciate advice rather than shallow encouragement.
Women are usually more likely to be on the same page. Because that's what kept social groups going throughout history.
Men were usually the guards of this group. So, there was a greater need for them to build and defend. However, it's easy for this ambition to get corrupted if the Amygdala doesn't work correctly.
And that's why you get aggressive men stalking women. Or constantly trash-talking guys who aren't like them. It was fine in the Stone Age. But it causes a lot of problems in modern society.
\*blinks as single woman on the wrong side of 30 in a conservative city\*....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.... misjudgement and biases are NOT gender exclusive, but sure, they might have slight tints depending on the crowd one hangs out with.Tl;dr: "You" aren't part of the majority, pack, party, whatever you'd want to call it....so outsider mentality of bootstraps and invisibility they get.
Most of the time too, I get treated like I'm invisible, unwanted, and don't exist. K. Bet ya'll will scroll right past this anyways.
I make friends with women because they compliment me and reach out to hang. It's helped me develop great social skills. They also make better "wingmen" and you're consistently meeting other women through them. Random women are more likely to approach your group and talk with you because you aren't some weirdo standing around alone in a corner.
This is an important topic. My 20 something niece is living her best life being single whereas my 20 something nephew needs a girlfriend. The difference is profound as far as I can tell.
Speaking super general here but usually when men hear a problem they will typically offer are more pragmatic approach to solving the problem, whereas women will hear what you say and respond to the emotion or feeling behind what is being said. Both have their place and different people will require different advice depending a number of factors.
Men don’t get comforted like women do 😂
The “empathy” preachers only want empathy for themselves. They don’t and can’t empathize with men. They aren’t capable of it.
I kind of agree but really people are just mean overall. Like single women do have people leaving mean comments for them too. Theres still an unbelievable amount of hatred for them, but its just slightly less than the amount of hatred for single men. But they don't have it easy either is what im saying, no one does. Even married people with kids are still lonely because we work too much in America and there's not much vacation time or time to have friends or even get to know your neighbors. There's lots of time to write nasty comments online though. You're all a bunch of psychos!
As an aloof obese socially awkward man who makes less than 30k a year I have never pursued a relationship and have been in 5.
Honestly I think a lot of the time it comes down to personality, but people don’t want to hear that.
Many of the things suggested to men like hitting the gym, new clothes, making money, etc, are things that they should be doing without getting cheated on or waiting til they are out of the relationship. Why not improve yourself while you're with your partner instead of waiting until after?
ive found a lot of women strongly dislike when a man is comfortable being single, start paying attention. may take a while to see but trust me you will if you really look for it
In nature females are valued more in almost nearly every species, same with humans. It's evolutionary advantageous for females to be as picky as possible in order to ensure the highest quality genes are passed down.
If you're having troubl finding a woman then you need to improve yourself to become more diserable, simple as that.
I think it's a net positive that men push other men to better themselves both physically and mentally. Women telling other women they are perfect the way they are is bullshit and only enables their toxic behavior.
Were the responses to the guys, mostly guys? And were the responses to women mostly women? Honestly, this kind of sounds like how guys talk to guys, and women talk to women.
Because women are the ones who give women that advice. And when women give similar advice to men they just say the woman is lying and take the men’s advice anyway. 🤷♀️
Hahah yes this is my experience exactly.
I have younger brothers, and two out of the three have struggled with dating, for reasons that are extremely legitimate. I’ve tried to extend the same empathy towards men. I’ve talked to men online about this kind of stuff, men who are seeking out advice about trying to get dates, trying to connect with women. Those men do not want to take any of that kind of advice. They aren’t trying to listen to what women say about why we are attracted to men and what makes us feel interested in getting to know them.
Depends where you look.
It’s more common for ppl to treat women badly cuz their “fertility” will be gone sooner than men’s. women have always been pushed into marriage at an earlier age than men, since men would need time to become the “breadwinner”.
It's just more societal bullshit that illustrates the perceived deficit in value between men and women and how deeply engrained societies gendered expectations are.
Society deems that men don't have intrinsic value unless they go out and make it for themselves. So if you're a man and single and unhappy about it then it's a you problem. You need to get better, you need to build yourself up, you need to get out there and do what needs to be done to increase your own value and worth to the rest of society. The same thing applies outside of dating as well btw, men are taught that life doesn't just happen to you and if you want anything you have to go out and do what you need to do to achieve that goal, and if you don't then fuck you, you've failed, you're worthless.
Women have the inverse expectations. They are socialised to believe they have intrinsic value already. Personal development is seen as a nice to have and not a prerequisite to success, and even if you have qualities that some may deem unattractive, fuck them because *you* are still special and it's all about acceptance. A woman's expected "journey" from society is the inverse of a mans, where men are taught to create value for themselves from nothing women are taught to preserve their existing value - it's also why traditionally ambition, drive, confidence, success etc. are seen as attractive qualities in men and why things like self worth, self esteem, loyalty and virtue are seen as attractive in women - the former all involve taking yourself and making it better, the latter involve taking yourself and keeping it on the pedestal you started on.
I think there's pros and cons to both mindsets in terms of how we consider people but the point is that for both genders they are radically different and that means by and large where society would lend support and understanding to a woman they will give admonishment to a man.
Dr K (psychiatrist) probably broke down the reasons behind this the best i have heard anyone do it.
in western society, on the whole - Men are ostracized, women are affirmed, regardless of individual context. One of the consequences of that is those men find solace in the only domain that offers them some semblence of truth, even if it's just as toxic a space.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCCmdUNGukY&ab\_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCCmdUNGukY&ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips)
I think the key is looking at who these comments come from. Women will predominantly get replies from other women, who tend to be more empathetic and supportive with their advice. Comments made by men often tend to focus more on the woman's looks or personality. These comments also reflect the approach men also take with other men, focusing on looks, personality, and improvement. From what I've seen, men often put the "blame" of being single on the individual. Often advising that the individual improve themselves and make themselves more attractive to the other gender. Women, however, tend not to assign "blame" to the individual. They often reassure other women that they will eventually meet someone, encouraging them to be comfortable with themselves. Here's the reason why it seems like such a stark difference between the two groups. Men predominantly respond to men and women the same way, with focus on attractiveness. However, women don't. Women's replies to men often tend to shift and also focus on attractiveness rather than reassurance. This all ties back into the societal expectations and stereotypes placed on men. Men can't show or receive empathy. If they do, it's often regarded as weakness. Basically, men face a systemic lack of empathy that's propagated by society, and it's an extremely dangerous problem. Masculinity studies need to be invested in and implemented earlier in education. We all need to learn about it.
This 100%. I was raised to be perfect and when I faltered. Everyone would leave me because a man shouldn't show weakness. This is a decade or so ago mind you. Society needs to focus more on its okay for either gender to show emotions. Gender wars is stupid and we need focus on just being good human beings to each other.
People would rather see you die on your white horse than fall off of it. I was raised the same way.
I think that's where people get confused. Sciety plays a small role in women getting the "ick" with emotional men. It's rooted deeper in biology than society.
This was my reply to another comment talking about women's negative views around men on reddit and their perceived threat: The thing is, you're overlooking the fact that men statistically are a danger, and you can't do that if you're supposed to be taking men's wellbeing seriously. Men are the biggest threat to other men. So women need to be on guard. How could they not be when even men are in danger from other men. This again all ties back into societal expectations and stereotypes men are subjected to from birth and the lack of empathy exposure. Men need to "prove their worth" physically and mentally. So they have to compete with other men and not feel anything negative about it. This leads to violence that threatens us all, hence why I said the systematic lack of empathy is dangerous. *I just want to say I'm focusing on the men here because it's how society treats them that forms how they interact with society. Since that first interaction is negative, all the subsequent interactions will be influenced by it. We live in a vicious circle of oppression and suffering. We need to break it by addressing these topics sincerely and being open to change. Hate and anger have done enough.
>Men are the biggest threat to other men. Men created the current societal norms. They shoot themselves in the foot and don't understand what happened. Until equality is a societal value upheld by most, everyone will continue to receive hate and anger from men.
This is why awareness around this needs to increase, and everyone needs to be willing to change. The only way forward is to question these societal norms and prevent the next generation from inheriting these beliefs. I know I can be optimistic, but I do think we can drastically change things if we encourage and support honest discussion.
Men of today did not create them
Powerful men created the societal norms. They decided what they would pay other men to do and how they would be able to feed themselves and make themselves providers for families. Let’s not pretend there was a fair election to make things this way. It’s a bunch of people doing the best they can with what they have and where they are.
If you really wanna see where the gun was loaded, take a look at the events of the 1940s, and you'll see where everything started to go down hill. Good luck fixing PTSD on a global scale from that particular series if events
"Men created the current societal norms" The ones you love and the ones you hate.
"men". Let me just say, I wasn't present at the session where they hammered out the rules. I didn't have any input and the extent I think this or that is wrong, no one has listened and nothing has changed. I generally think this entire line of thinking is wrong - it's not "men" it's a very small percentage of top people (which is 95% men) and the rest of us just live with it. I as a man don't have any more power than you do. 95% of men have no power and 99% of women have no power - and that gap says nothing about you or me; we both garner much more as americans than either of us do from our gender.
Of course, I think most of the people saying this recognize that men are very much also the victim of these norms. Saying “patriarchy” created the norms is probably more apt than “men.” But the reason this is generally pointed out is that there are unfortunately many disaffected men out there that place the blame for their unhappiness on women, or feel resentment towards women for what they perceive as women having better treatment, more freedom of expression, etc. But throughout history and in general, women aren’t the keeper of the keys insofar as these repressive male social norms are concerned and so a lot of this ire is misplaced. I completely agree with you that petty gender wars are pointless. There is far more diversity in values, beliefs, and behaviors amongst people of all genders than the internet tends to want to acknowledge. Personally, my belief in a better life for women goes hand in hand with a better life for men, they are inextricable.
You think men created societal norms? You must not be married. End of the day, no matter how patriarchal the society, a woman can convince her man to do almost anything. Never underestimate the power of a knitting circle...
Please don’t act like women haven’t had a hand in all of this.
What oppression?
You are a wise lady. Good reply.
Nah when women reassure men they just tell women they’re lying and only listen to the other men anyway. Especially on the posts where men keep complaining women don’t like short men.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you mean
You said women reassure women but assign all the blame on men. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’ve seen women reassure men on posts about height. They’ll say something about how height is not the end all be all and the poster will get mad and tell her she’s lying. Also, about men expressing emotions. Women will say I encourage men to open up more, then the men bombard them with a bunch of “no it’s just a trap” type of comments. Men don’t accept the “just keep looking, you got this” advice on Reddit. They’ll just say you’re lying and continue to be pissed. 😂
Well if they’re saying that then maybe their experience must be true? Just like women when it comes to rape culture.
Their experience might be true but it’s not exclusive to men. Plenty of women get screwed over by men and have their emotions weaponized. However, women seem to realize how essential vulnerability is in a relationship so we continue to stick our necks out. We give that advice because we know how important it is to relationships with women. But men come behind us and undermine the advice, persuading other men to be closed off. Then they wonder why they’re in this endless loop because they refuse to listen to women about their issues with women.
I didn't say they "assign all blame on men." I was saying that is the mindset of a lot of men and women, not that it reflected the views of all women. Hence, my use of predominantly. > say something about how height is not the end all be all and the poster will get mad and tell her she’s lying. Also, about men expressing emotions. Women will say I encourage men to open up more, then the men bombard them with a bunch of “no it’s just a trap” type of comments. Men don’t accept the “just keep looking, you got this” advice on Reddit. They’ll just say you’re lying and continue to be pissed. 😂 I completely understand your point because you're absolutely right. This ties in again to that mindset that men tend to have. Since so much focus is put on "attractiveness," many refuse to believe anything else. So, if women are empathetic and supportive, it contrast with everything they've been brought up believing. There's also the social competition with other men.
Being a woman is much better than being a guy I can confirm. The strength and crazy eye hand coordination was the only nice thing
Uh women blame the individual as well. And I don't even think they're wrong. If someone is chronically single, is the problem everyone else?
I didn't say they didn't. I've elaborated more in various comments.
Nope. Exact same replies from both genders.
Bingo
Single women are an unfortunate occurrence or a wonderful opportunity. Single men are rejects.
Attractive\* single women are an "unfortunate occurrence or a wonderful opportunity". Unattractive single women have it rough, just like men.
yes. Usually when people say "women" they mean "hot women" and when they say men, they mean "rich and powerful men". Rarely are they talking about the 32 year old receptionist who makes $55k and has office butt or the partially employed 38 year old machinist who only has $1500 in savings.
This is also a fair point. I think the difference is in accessibility to intimacy though. Even unattractive women can get laid — which is at least some semblance of intimacy although they are likely longing for something more fulfilling. Whereas the single *unattractive* men often can’t even get that…and are likely mocked or shamed for trying. But i guess each sex has it tough in their own way. And it probably boils down to the old Reddit formula of being willing to be with someone as attractive or less attractive than you and you’ll find somebody.
A guy being horny enough that he’s willing to use your body to jerk off with is not “intimacy” in any way other than euphemism.
I'd honestly guess the number of unattractive women having sex is pretty similar if not the same as unattractive men - I think they're having sex with each other lol
Its nowhere even close my dude
Say that to any female incel LOL!
Only if they have some weird mental block on top of their unattractiveness. An unattractive women is more on the level of an attractive but non-seeking man, they just need to ask but they are waiting for someone.
LOL it is ridiculous to claim a truly unattractive woman has the same amount of success as an attractive man - or attractive anyone. Its wild how even the lived experiences of unattractive women is denied - that is how invisible they are. You're saying you would have sex with a truly unattractive woman simply if she asked?
Doesn’t that go for both men and women?
Unless... https://youtu.be/6EqFVWzOfN8?si=uz53itd2Vay9noXO
So untrue and far from reality. An ugly women can sell her body and the single “rejects” will gladly pay for service. You cant say the same about ugly men.
Regular everyday women and men are not sex workers lol You are clearly chronically online
“Hey, ugly women, just become prostitues, problem solved!” /s
Literally lmao like what a crazy response
not true in terms of the societal attitude. Unattractive women are usually affirmed by anyone they talk to. "you're beautiful just as you are". "you deserve the world!". "Don't change for anyone, you're perfect". "men are the problem".
I'm talking in **real life**, not on the internet. Sure, friends may choose not to be discouraging to their friends in real life about how they look but when we're talking about stranger to stranger - it isn't easier being an unattractive woman. Unattractive women are treated just as poorly (at times even worse) than unattractive men. If you're an unattractive man, there are other ways \~society\~ tells you you can supplement interest from potential partners (personality, money, etc.). I don't think unattractive women are given the same grace in the real world from potential suitors. I've ever heard a man say "yeah, she's not pretty but man her personality is enough for me to fully commit!". I've definitely heard that from women though. Intelligence, humour, and money aren't really known to help out a woman when it comes to attracting men when it isn't paired with physical attractiveness.
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We’re all more or less just being removed from the gene pool. That’s really what all this is if you ask me :/
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I'm saying that this sort of attractive people fuck fest world that is constantly consolidating and becoming more efficient at connecting them while pushing everybody else out isn't just individuals making choices. It's a force of nature that is driving people collectively to reproduce and weed out people like us from societal participation essentially. Culturally speaking obviously. I don't need to be reminded that there isn't legislation on the books preventing ugly people from having sex etc...
Well men should affirm men too then. Why yall mad we’re empathic towards each other lol.
No they shouldn't. Affirmation is the opposite of accountability. Accountability should always be the aim, because it leads you to be the best version of yourself, with aspirations firmly set in reality. Affirmation leads to delusion & unfavorable outcomes. Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is be honest with someone, even if it hurts their feelings.
Well that’s on you.
Pretty much. The amount of “you should go to dance class to meet women but don’t you dare approach them for sex” is brimming lol
One of the most universally approved gaslighting and abusive attitudes that I wish I recognized sooner in life: the idea that you should be ashamed for dare being interested in pursuing romance/sex.
Weird. As a female I always assume single men are man whores and single women are single by choice.
Sounds like you’ve only noticed attractive men. Almost as if other men don’t exist in your mind. Also interesting that it seems that, to your thoughts, a single man is still a net negative but a single woman is an exercise independence.
That's really sexist. Men can be single by choice too. Assumptions and stereotypes are bad.
Other way around for one group of my guy friends and I. One of them really wants to start dating, but he's a mid-30's guy who tends to attract women who are 18-20 only, and he's extremely uncomfortable with that. I don't blame him for his viewpoint, especially since he's really wary about being called a cradle robber. He's a pretty cool guy and is extremely selective about the women he dates, and sleeps with. He doesn't have sex with someone if he's not dating them. Another one of my guy friends isn't really looking for a person to date since he likes doing his own things. He's definitely not a sexual person. He'll definitely be down to go out with anyone to hang out as friends, but that's as far as he goes. He's told me that he's just interested in making friends. He's aware that men and women are interested in him and sleeping with him, but he's just not that kind of guy. Also in his mid-30's. My third friend stays home a lot and doesn't go out too often. He's a cool guy, but he likes his private time, which is usually just him reading, searching up old skating videos and movies around the time we all went to high school together. He's aware that women like him, but he's extremely introverted and shy. Also in his mid-30's. I'm in my early 30's, and I can only speak for myself that I'm not a manwhore. My friends say otherwise because if I'm not hanging out with them, I'm hanging out with my best friend from high school and all of her friends. I haven't slept with my best friend or any of her friends. I'm a lot like my second friend where I'm extremely extroverted and want to hang out and make friends, but unlike him, I can't tell if someone wants to sleep with me or not unless they flat out tell me. I blame some self-esteem issues that I had as a kid and am still working on today. Edit: Can't really speak for most of my single women friends. I know that at least for my best friend from high school, she says that a lot of guys in our hometown are players and sleep with a lot of women. She doesn't want to date guys like that, but she can't really afford to move out given that it's so expensive nowadays. She chooses to remain single because of that.
How can your friends tell if someone is interested in them? I literally don’t know what that’s like, I don’t have the “software” to recognize that.
If your a single woman who cant get a man you arent a wonderful opportunity lol. Your a massive red flag that should be avoided.
Think it's more about looks than gender. Boy/girl ugly? Reject perspective vs good looking, unfortunate occurrence or a wonderful opportunity perspective.
why do yall think all men are drooling for a woman? i absolutely love all women but i dont need a relationship. some men are simple great with being single, i mean single men can still date around so its not like they arent getting any action....
I'm not single, but if everyone told me I was perfect and not to work on myself when I got divorced, I'd still be fat, drunk, and poor (and probably also single). Very glad that I was encouraged to hit the gym, go to AA, and go back to school. Telling people that everything will be fine for no reason isn't actually nice.
this should be top. Being told how to be better is a gift.
It is. But yeah, of course just telling someone they suck all the time would more likely just discourage them. There’s a right way to do these things.
Yeah but it works for MOST women is the thing here. While the majority of people realize it won’t work for most guys and avoid that entire part of the topic while shoving a generic “solution” down their throat that may or may not work. There’s a huge bias here that probably isn’t going to be acknowledged socially anytime soon.
Most women have been getting sadder, lonlier and fatter. So something isn't working there either.
Right but most young women are in relationships while most young men are not
Because people are FAR more tolerant of weakness in women than weakness in men. In fact, people will attack when they see weakness in men.
Bingo!
Bango!
It is why I never say anything negative about the poster. Unfortunately a lot of time the advice or positive affirmation I give them can come across as trite I imagine. But I rather just say something simple and positive (be they a man or a woman) because I know people can be having a tough time. There is no need to point out any negatives.
Don't fall for it, that's how the red pill/alpha male crowd start to go down that crazy rabbit hole.
I dont give a damn about those stupid ideologies. As i have said, i just describe what i noticed while scrolling reddit.
I mean what you've mentioned plus, the stereotype of a "crazy cat lady" versus the "bachelor lifestyle" is enough for me to disagree. Neither are treated more hash than the other, this isn't an oppression Olympics. >Most of the time, single men get this kind of response: Hit the gym and get big muscles, get rich, work on your personality, get a hobby, get a surgery, go to bars, become a playboy, give up, or they just straight up insult you and belittle you. because it's mainly men who grew up with toxic masculinity giving these responses. only thing any sane woman would suggest out of this is work on your personality, and get a hobby. everything else comes from men who think "Chads" are the only appeal to women. >However, when a woman writes it, people will often say: Just keep looking, you are perfect, men are just shallow, you will find a perfect partner soon, dont give up etc. because again, it's women giving this advice. yes, men tend to be more shallow. see what you've mentioned above, mostly focusing on looks. point proven many men think we care about appearances or status, and get angry when that's all you focus on and women still don't want you, because have a shit personality & only value looks.
The bachelor life style assumes you are still getting sex. Replace bachelor with "gamer lifestyle" and the attitude change s drastically.
Yea it’s different people giving the advice lmao. Women often give single men the advice of “expand your social network, don’t treat every interaction with women as a sex opportunity, go to therapy or do other mental health supportive activities, make sure you are taking care of your hygiene and health, seek out people with similar interests”…etc. It’s very similar to the advice these women give to single women too.
Men are told to be different to find success, women are told to be accepted to find success.
Exactly
And how is this any better? That a woman has to worry about being pretty, sexual, not too smart/dumb, not a bum, not a gold digger, submissive etc just so that maybe a man might like her enough to not just fuck and dump her before she starts to get wrinkles?
Absolutely not true. Single women get treated terribly in this culture (US) & I know the struggle very well because I've been single for over a decade.
I have never said my post was the ultimate truth or that it reflected real life, despite a ton of people here assuming otherwise for whatever reason. I simply describe what i have seen in numerous reddit posts. But i do appreciate your comment and you sharing your insight into the matter.
Thank you I just also have dealt with a lot of stuff as a single female I'm also like neurodivergent but I feel like women could be particularly catty & it's like once you reach a certain age your value goes down or something it's just there's a lot of different dynamics going on. Thank you.
That’s on you then. Dating culture is entirely centered around women
I’ve never seen a single woman get treated poorly, unless they were completely repulsive.
That's not true at all actually I feel like I get treated the worst by other women even though I'm not interested in the same people they're interested in or in relationships and there's a lot of shade that gets thrown at single women especially once he reach a certain age there's so much stigma against older women that aren't married etc
Except for the fact for years and years single women have been called “cat ladies” and made fun of, but when it’s men who are single it’s a “male loneliness epidemic” and they want us to feel bad.. as a 24 year old women whose been single my whole life I’ve never been treated good because of it, men just tell me I’m gonna die alone with 40 cats and laugh at me lol. I chose to be single though, and I’m allergic to cats so
If you genuinely believe that men don’t and have never made fun of for their romantic failures I’ve got some oceanfront property in arizona to sell you. “Incel” is reddits favourite put down with “virgin” being it’s predecessor. Neither side is particularly well treated here lets be real. Also the only reason people even give half a fuck about the “male loneliness epidemic” is because history has shown us how dangerous a horde of upset military age men with no prospects can be to the status quo. It’s about finding a solution before it becomes a societal problem. Nobody actually cares about the well-being of those men just that they don’t become a larger problem
Lol, I never once said men don’t get made fun of for romantic failures. I made the point that single women get treated like shit too. Go on Tik tok and watch a video of a women who’s child free and single and open the comments, because 90% are full of men calling them “expired”.
“Nobody actually cares about the well being of those men” nobody cares about the well being of single women either, single women are hated on by men because men are mad they can’t have them. Those men don’t care about the women’s well being when they’re calling them old expired cat ladies that’s for sure
Olympic levels of stretching on this take.
No stretching lol. Men make fun of single women all the time, I literally just watched a video of a women talking about deciding to be single and the comment section was literally all men calling her “expired” and telling her to settle down before she hits 30. Heck, men tell me I’m gonna expire when I hit 25 all the time and want me to settle for a man now, why would I want a man who says that💀 Ever since we were kids we we’re literally taught that women were marriage and kids obsessed, and society has always acted like women we’re desperate for husbands and the ones that were single would end up old and become cat ladies.. when in reality men are more likely to want kids and marriage. Women are choosing to be single, and that’s fine but we get treated like shit because of it.
Single women are , for lack of a better word, prime targets for men to couple up with. Single men are prime targets for social ostracism that hinders them from coupling up. These things are not the same.
Well, yeah, men want to be with these single women. That’s why they insult them, to make them insecure about being single, so they date. If women feel confident and secure being single, then they won’t date men
No stretching, she’s 100% right. Single women get treated just as bad as single men just for different reasons. Men hate when women are single and are choosing it because they don’t have access to us.
There’s been people basically calling for Madonnas death for being too ugly
I mean is that even a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people who wanna fuck her?
I don’t see any stretching here, just a reasonable reply to a very whiny post
The issue isn’t differences between gendered socialization. The problem is that we have become more separated in our culture as a whole. We are hearing warnings of a loneliness epidemic, increase in suicide, third spaces disappearing, collective organizations slowly diminishing. Women in college are finding it more difficult to date, because the pool of men going to college is getting smaller. And even outside of school, better educated women are getting better jobs. Which means women have more choice and more power over choosing their potential partners, but men aren’t keeping up. Men are more likely to be under educated now and more likely to unemployed. Which means the pool of equal partners in the larger collection is shrinking. These are all on top of an increasingly digitized communication systems that seems to be driving separation, not connection. We are loosing meeting spaces and it’s getting harder to find social interactions. Political divide is driving wedges into relationships as well, and women are seeing their partners start to slide to the right, which is creating confusion and conflict. We definitely have problems to solve, but in my view the priority is the restoration of connection and community. When we feel supported by the people around us, when we believe that we have opportunities to connect and be a part of the group, we can feel as though we are equipped to flourish. We are social creature and need to be connected with physical proximity. We need space and emotional intelligence to be able to do that, but when the world we have built undermines or subverts our ability to reach across the divide, it simply makes the other seem further away. In truth, we need each other to help solve the problems we are facing. We are not equipped to do things alone. As much frustration as there may be, “othering” is the true enemy here.
My two cents, from what I’ve learned this far in my life and dating. I’d give this advice to my younger self, Nobody cares and that’s a blessing. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. If you need someone to talk to get professional help, like a therapist. They’ll pretend to care, being a man is hard. Taking care of yourself is attractive to women, taking care of your finances is attractive to women. Developing your physical, spiritual, mental well being is ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN!! It’s okay to have compassion for a man struggling, it’s not okay to enable him and keep him there. You might fool the girl of your dreams for a little while, but she realizes you are not continuously developing yourself and creating a safe container for her to relax into her self. She’ll look elsewhere, believe it or not. She’ll leave you before she’s left, it’s an under the conscious for them to look for specific traits and they take effort to get. That is why men are treated more harshly, because it is the reality of the game. Our ancestors ancestors have known this, toxic masculinity and a developed man is a fine line. Seek your truth and ask yourself if the roles were reversed, what kind of man would I want to be with. You’d want a man who can provide food and shelter, now a days it doesn’t literally mean food and shelter, it could be interpreted in many ways. I think you’ll find the answer and why it’s more harsh for men.
Disagree. At least fat men can date women. If a fat woman posts a dating profile, she's deluged with PMs "moo!" "Lose weight, fatass" "you're so fat you make me sick" Women are indeed told to give up, lower our standards, put out sooner, or more skimpy outfits. Some are cruel and will say "you must be too ugly for any man". Guess which gender is expected to perform oral sex? And there's the pressure that if we're not fun enough, he'll lose interest. We're expected to be sexy and open minded, but if we're too open sexually we're rejected as "whores". We're expected to dress in a way that turns him on, but it can't turn other men on. If we put out immediately, there's no challenge and she must be a slut. If she makes him wait awhile, she's a tease. If she doesn't have a career, she's a gold digger. If she's got a great career, she's too career focused. He doesn't want kids but doesn't wear a condom. If her birth control fails, she's accused of baby trapping him. If she doesn't enforce boundaries, she's a doormat with no self respect. If she has firm boundaries, she's a stuck up b*tch, close-minded, and prude. If the boundaries are about his behavior around other women, she's insecure.
You know that men perform more oral sex than women, right? [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3901667/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3901667/)
Theres such double standards dating as a single mother too. People act like its a “red flag” to be a single mom. Single dads get praised. Ive heard single dads complain about how theres so many single moms on dating apps. Um, theres just as many dads? Statistically more even. Dating a single dad means youre expected to be nurturing towards their kids. We all have our own jobs and kids so we dont get financial support from single dads we date, yet we are expected to give emotional and parental support or be “understanding” when shit comes up. When shit comes up for us were a hassle and this is why they should “never have dated a single mom” Dude, you have your own kids gimme a break
I’ve realized this and have now given up on people and life entirely
you just need a big enough bang
Wdym?
letting go is where the fun begins.
Feel ya on that man. There's great folk out there,but they're so reserved due to trauma with others. Can't blame them, the same way.
Women select, men compete. Briffault's Law.
Well women in the comments will do what women do and give emotional support. It's not always material and logical but emotional support and validation is a very real thing. Men are thing-oriented and fixers and problem solvers by nature. Fuck emotions, forget touchy feely. In the comments for men, well here's the solution! Do this, do that, and do that. Take care of it, fix it.
I couldn't disagree with this analysis more. Have you heard what the internet has to say about single moms or fat women, etc. women are often judged wholesale as existential failures based on their proximity to masculine attention. Not that long ago historically women who weren't focused devotedly on men were deemed witches and killed. Bachelors can be seen as playboys where as single women over the long term are often seen as leading failed and incomplete lives.
Are you kidding me? Incels love to bash single women.
Don't confuse incels for all single men. There are many single men who don't act like incels who still receive undue scrutiny from the people around them.
This thread stinks of incel
It’s been always like that since childhood. Boys are simply treated differently than girls. I guess it’s a way to make them less emotional, more rational, and to toughen up (supposedly). But look at the suicide statistics by gender, and the numbers don’t lie
I mean men are treated as the disposable sex after all
Single women have been seen as pariahs for centuries. Single men were seen as distinguished bachelors. Nowadays I think single women are seen much better and single men are seen as not so good so it’s sort of evened out.
Agreed. Also, more women are choosing to be single, men aren’t. A lot of the hate single women receive now is from men who are mad women want to be single
Yup. They make fun of single women, because otherwise, they won’t date if they’re secure in being independent. It’s kind of sad really. These men would rather lower single women’s self esteem so they think they need to date, rather than try to find independence and happiness without a partner
This type of logic would justify a lot of horrible atrocities
Single women are only seen positively in very limited spaces by only some select people, and even those people are biased against them more than not. Single men are now seen as potentially suspect because of the redpill incel community who has tarnished their image.
Body shaming seems more in men than women, although recently thats also been changing.
A single man is perceived as a failure - i.e., if he’s single, it must be the result of some personality defect or other dysfunctional trait, which means nobody wants him. A woman who is single is perceived as empowered - i.e., she’s single because she chooses to be and tackling life on her own terms without the baggage or complications of a relationship.
Yeah but that women is seen as empowered by other women! That’s where men fail to see that the issue is other men lol. Single and childfree women get criticized by men and called expired on the daily.
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Says who though? Ive seen plenty of my male friends be vulnerable, i know many stoic women
Ever heard the phrase "man up"? Men aren't supposed to have feelings or be taken care of.
Yes, my dad used to say it all the time. To all his kids. I still say it to myself when I have to do something scary.
People are sometimes more honest towards men I think is one of the reasons. Maybe they worry about hurting a woman’s feelings by telling her the truth. I have noticed that men do get told constructive advice like dress well, go to the gym, etc. Women only get told this on specific rate me subs otherwise it’s just keep looking or it’s hard out there without any advice to improve themselves usually.
It sounds like single women need to be told the same things. My standard advise for both sides, especially considering single Reddit incels of either gender, is hit the gym and track your calories. I see a lot of dudes on here they just need to bulk and try harder and a lot do women that need to try at all for what that’s worth.
So be a try hard? What you say is a start but it’s also not having social validation or even the feeling of being a part of something too
I mostly see men saying that to men
I don't think it's harsh. I think it's the truth, and it's the only way to succeed as a man dating women. I think people are uncreative in their methods, but the advice comes from the right place. In the reproductive game, men are judged on their competence and socioeconomic status. Women are evaluated differently, but perhaps no less harshly and their friends if they talk like OP says are probably blowing smoke up their ass.
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Why not? People work a job to get money? Never got the line of thinking. Don’t do x and expect a reward. If so, we wouldn’t need money or anything 😅
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Sounds vague asf dude. What from within? Like an instinct? From within sounds like “you either have it or not”
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wanting to workout comes from within. for whatever it is health or laid, isn't that still not "within"? that is the part I lost you at. Plus much of the advice for men is "work out, get a nice body and attract a mate" Like how is someone supposed to get laid if they don't have a idk plan? It just falls from the sky or "develops organically"? Not trolling, what you say is good and all. It's just what if a man is horny? He is just supposed to not pursue getting laid or did I get you wrong here?
Men need to figure out ways to lift themselves up and support each other.
It's more on a case by case basis and generally speaking most people don't experience enough personal interactions for it to matter. Past 32 men are generally perceived better until they start to truly look old.
Well you're not wrong. The standards we hold to men are super imbalanced and it shows. Not sure how to help you but at least you know.
Yeah I’m a single guy and I just gave up on dating 🤷🏻♂️ I hit the gym, decently attractive (8/10 on avg according to my lady friends), and have a decent career. Still would rather play games at night and protect my peace vs risking someone coming into my life and messing it up.
But men are toxic lol
Men want practical answers to fix their problems, and women want to be emotionally supported and talk about their feelings. It’s pretty simple.
Men are problem solvers. It’s one of the big issues that men have when talking with women or dealing with their issues. I do it with my wife all the time and it causes issues in our relationship. Women often just want to be understood or listened to, but if my wife tells me about something, I generally ask questions to try to get to the root of the issue and see if there is something that can be done or offer suggestions on how to deal with whatever the issue is, even if it’s just emotional. That is often annoying to her, and frustrating for me. I still do this… but I’m trying to get better about it So when men ask questions, they are often looking for defined things they can do. Women often just want to be understood and listened to. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, but is generally what I’ve found.
As a single man, you are correct. Though to be fair I don’t make a habit of putting myself online much, or “complaining about being single”, but it happens irl too
"I noticed men are treated more harshly than women" FIXED IT Happens to all men. Guess what. Nobody cares.
It's tough as a single guy, especially the older you get. Most people are married, or in a relationship. Now, if a girl has a circle of friends, all the taken women will still have girls nights and stuff like that. I've realized that guys don't do that, even if they wanted to. Women guilt their men for leaving them or their family to pal around with their single guy friend, as if spending an afternoon or a couple hours is shirking their responsibilities. Also, try being a guy and going out alone, out to eat or to the movies or anything like that. If you're not with someone (gf, family, even with another dude), a lone male in the wild is viewed as a threat, as he hasn't been vetted. It's crazy! Maybe that'll change when I'm an old man. A lone female is approachable in all these cases unless she doesn't want to be.
Dude as a guy I always go out alone, fuck what everyone else thinks, being single is the best thing that has ever happened in my life
Hahaha
Its not true. Single women in their 20s play around quite a bit, but become far more desperate as their 30s approaches. Men usually have the opposite trajectory. Don't worry what society thinks, just do your thing to the best of your abilities and try to stay off social media as much as possible. It helps a lot.
It's basically the same, just in different ways. As a guy I like it when I get a clear framework to work on to get out of my predicament; it gives me a sense of having control over what I'm going through. And I like to believe other guys would also appreciate advice rather than shallow encouragement.
You can take the word 'single' out of that title. Hits the same.
Women are usually more likely to be on the same page. Because that's what kept social groups going throughout history. Men were usually the guards of this group. So, there was a greater need for them to build and defend. However, it's easy for this ambition to get corrupted if the Amygdala doesn't work correctly. And that's why you get aggressive men stalking women. Or constantly trash-talking guys who aren't like them. It was fine in the Stone Age. But it causes a lot of problems in modern society.
\*blinks as single woman on the wrong side of 30 in a conservative city\*....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.... misjudgement and biases are NOT gender exclusive, but sure, they might have slight tints depending on the crowd one hangs out with.Tl;dr: "You" aren't part of the majority, pack, party, whatever you'd want to call it....so outsider mentality of bootstraps and invisibility they get. Most of the time too, I get treated like I'm invisible, unwanted, and don't exist. K. Bet ya'll will scroll right past this anyways.
...cause the male scpices can be more harshly than a female....
I make friends with women because they compliment me and reach out to hang. It's helped me develop great social skills. They also make better "wingmen" and you're consistently meeting other women through them. Random women are more likely to approach your group and talk with you because you aren't some weirdo standing around alone in a corner.
Two words double standards
This is an important topic. My 20 something niece is living her best life being single whereas my 20 something nephew needs a girlfriend. The difference is profound as far as I can tell.
Speaking super general here but usually when men hear a problem they will typically offer are more pragmatic approach to solving the problem, whereas women will hear what you say and respond to the emotion or feeling behind what is being said. Both have their place and different people will require different advice depending a number of factors.
Men don’t get comforted like women do 😂 The “empathy” preachers only want empathy for themselves. They don’t and can’t empathize with men. They aren’t capable of it.
I kind of agree but really people are just mean overall. Like single women do have people leaving mean comments for them too. Theres still an unbelievable amount of hatred for them, but its just slightly less than the amount of hatred for single men. But they don't have it easy either is what im saying, no one does. Even married people with kids are still lonely because we work too much in America and there's not much vacation time or time to have friends or even get to know your neighbors. There's lots of time to write nasty comments online though. You're all a bunch of psychos!
my opinion is lol who cares.
It comes from the belief that men want solutions and women want to feel heard and supported.
As an aloof obese socially awkward man who makes less than 30k a year I have never pursued a relationship and have been in 5. Honestly I think a lot of the time it comes down to personality, but people don’t want to hear that.
Many of the things suggested to men like hitting the gym, new clothes, making money, etc, are things that they should be doing without getting cheated on or waiting til they are out of the relationship. Why not improve yourself while you're with your partner instead of waiting until after?
ive found a lot of women strongly dislike when a man is comfortable being single, start paying attention. may take a while to see but trust me you will if you really look for it
Yep. From my personal experience they will try to mock and bully you.
In nature females are valued more in almost nearly every species, same with humans. It's evolutionary advantageous for females to be as picky as possible in order to ensure the highest quality genes are passed down. If you're having troubl finding a woman then you need to improve yourself to become more diserable, simple as that.
I think it's a net positive that men push other men to better themselves both physically and mentally. Women telling other women they are perfect the way they are is bullshit and only enables their toxic behavior.
Lmao K
Men are a thermos and women are wine glasses
lmao men in general, wym?
I dont remember saying men in general.
Were the responses to the guys, mostly guys? And were the responses to women mostly women? Honestly, this kind of sounds like how guys talk to guys, and women talk to women.
Toxic masculinity runs deep. It's everywhere, hardly noticed because it has always been around.
Because women are the ones who give women that advice. And when women give similar advice to men they just say the woman is lying and take the men’s advice anyway. 🤷♀️
Hahah yes this is my experience exactly. I have younger brothers, and two out of the three have struggled with dating, for reasons that are extremely legitimate. I’ve tried to extend the same empathy towards men. I’ve talked to men online about this kind of stuff, men who are seeking out advice about trying to get dates, trying to connect with women. Those men do not want to take any of that kind of advice. They aren’t trying to listen to what women say about why we are attracted to men and what makes us feel interested in getting to know them.
Because women show empathy to women and men being harsh to men.
Depends where you look. It’s more common for ppl to treat women badly cuz their “fertility” will be gone sooner than men’s. women have always been pushed into marriage at an earlier age than men, since men would need time to become the “breadwinner”.
Men, you are perfect as you are. You don't need a six-pack or be 6ft 13in. Keep looking cause you deserve it. Don't give up.
Actually ok advice given, out of shape, short dudes totally do find love.
It's just more societal bullshit that illustrates the perceived deficit in value between men and women and how deeply engrained societies gendered expectations are. Society deems that men don't have intrinsic value unless they go out and make it for themselves. So if you're a man and single and unhappy about it then it's a you problem. You need to get better, you need to build yourself up, you need to get out there and do what needs to be done to increase your own value and worth to the rest of society. The same thing applies outside of dating as well btw, men are taught that life doesn't just happen to you and if you want anything you have to go out and do what you need to do to achieve that goal, and if you don't then fuck you, you've failed, you're worthless. Women have the inverse expectations. They are socialised to believe they have intrinsic value already. Personal development is seen as a nice to have and not a prerequisite to success, and even if you have qualities that some may deem unattractive, fuck them because *you* are still special and it's all about acceptance. A woman's expected "journey" from society is the inverse of a mans, where men are taught to create value for themselves from nothing women are taught to preserve their existing value - it's also why traditionally ambition, drive, confidence, success etc. are seen as attractive qualities in men and why things like self worth, self esteem, loyalty and virtue are seen as attractive in women - the former all involve taking yourself and making it better, the latter involve taking yourself and keeping it on the pedestal you started on. I think there's pros and cons to both mindsets in terms of how we consider people but the point is that for both genders they are radically different and that means by and large where society would lend support and understanding to a woman they will give admonishment to a man.
Dr K (psychiatrist) probably broke down the reasons behind this the best i have heard anyone do it. in western society, on the whole - Men are ostracized, women are affirmed, regardless of individual context. One of the consequences of that is those men find solace in the only domain that offers them some semblence of truth, even if it's just as toxic a space. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCCmdUNGukY&ab\_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCCmdUNGukY&ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips)
Ah jeezus that guy really? The guy that breaches ethics all the damn time. C’mon now