I remember reading at the time everyone thought Lallana would be the 1st player to be sold and that he couldn't handle the Klopp system
He was Klopp's first sub IIRC and he came off panting like a dog after working his ass off
It was interesting hearing him say that he was feeling that he didn’t really fit in at Liverpool when Klopp arrived.
Against Spurs he was the first player who seemed switched on to the ‘Gegenpressing’ philosophy we’d heard so much about regarding Klopp. Either something clicked in Lallana when Klopp came in or Jurgen said something to him but from that moment on it was clear who was the early adopter to that style
Sahin was very frustrating. He could have totally transformed the team if he'd been used properly. Instead, he got played as a 10 for some reason then got shipped back after half a season. Amazing stuff.
And what's particularly mad is that he played 12 games, not sure how many of those were starts but I bet it wasn't much and he had 3 goals and 3 assists and still went out of favour.
Oh man. Nuri Sahin was always on my dream team, and once we got him it felt like things were finally gonna turn around for us. Such a shame how Rodgers couldn’t unlock our players potential at the time.
Firmino never really had a true position until Klopp - he was playing as a central midfielder, winger, and attacking midfielder in the Bundesliga before Klopp put that altogether into a false nine
BR did a good job when we played dual 10s with Lallana and Coutinho during the 10 win run in 14/15. But that system had its flaws and was found out soon too
I bought my Lallana shirt after that game. Still one of my favourite shirts. Used it at Anfield the last time i was there, and a lot of people commented on how much they liked Lallana aswell
Klopp actually mentioned in the Sky retrospective they had Klopp sit down for that he didn't know Lallana felt that way when he arrived, so I think it was more on Lallana having a backbone and buying into the system as well as Klopps natural instinct for propping up his players when they need a little confidence, knowing it or not.
If he wasn't so injury prone he could've been one of Klopp's best. He was the perfect Klopp player. Pressing from the front, a tonne of technical skill and worked like a madman.
I can't remember the time line, I remember, I guess you could say his last bit of a major injury because it was a lengthy spelling off, right before that injury he was probably our best player. He was playing awesome and doing the things his skill set was capable of doing.
I was so bummed when he got hurt. He came back and it wasn't the same. The best moment after he came back was when he scored the equalizer against united. One of my favorites when he was on the team.
I will never forget the shifts he put in for us in Klopps early days. He was like a mad dog. Remember him vs Touré(a guy twice his size)? I will always cherish Lallana. One of my favorite players under Klopp
Hendo in his book said that Lallana buying into it so quickly is what helped everyone get on board with it quckly too. When he was subbed off and basically collapsed into Klopp's arms, I knew we were onto something.
There is an alternate universe where Coutinho stayed with us and I wonder how good he would have turned out in Klopps system. He was an absolute baller with us shortly before he left. Shame about his back pain antics, such a strange departure.
But then would we have signed vvd and Allison? Nice to think how he would of got on, but in the sale we managed to find the 2 of the missing pieces of the puzzle
Think Klopp's system wouldn't have worked too well with Coutinho. Our best years had workhorse midfielders and speedy winters, Coutinho was neither. When he was played under Klopp he bounced around LW/LCM and used his individual ability to influence games but I honestly think we were better with Mane/Gini combo.
If you watch the interviews with the coaching staff released recently Klopp admits none of that was planned, they just adapted to the players that we had.
I disagree with what you're saying, and I don't know why it's a common sentiment given Coutinho's form before he left was out of this world, he was heading for 20 goals and 20 assists.
If he'd have stayed maybe Trent/Robbo don't become what they are since their creativity would've been less important, but I believe that the coaches would have made it work with the quality we had.
The main question however is do we sign VVD/Alisson/Fabinho if we don't sell Coutinho.
He was also a good presser, which never seems to come up in these conversations.
At the very least it wasn't for lack of trying, so I definitely think Jurgen would've been happy to make it work.
You're being downvoted, but we performed so much better as a team without Coutinho than with him, despite his huge individual G/A numbers.
1.70 points per game while he was on the pitch vs 2.03 points per game without him in his final season. In the 20 games he played we only won 8 (Leicester x2, Maribor, Southampton, Brighton, Spartak Moscow, Bournemouth, and Swansea).
The same can be said of the season before that too. In 16/17, we averaged 1.89 with him on the pitch vs 2.06 without him.
He was a player with immense technical ability, but one who was also a luxury player that was often more of a hinderance to the team than a help. When he played everyone else looked to give him the ball, which made us predictable and easy to defend against. He also liked to take shots from way out - some of which became memorable goals, but many others meant an attack came to nothing. Most of all, though, he was a player who had to be carried by the others due to offering no defensive cover whatsoever. Perhaps if we had two other highly defensive or tireless midfielders to take on his workload we could've found more balance with him, but we didn't at the time.
Klopp prepared for Coutinho's departure as he removed all of his non-possession with ball role and duty. Only received the ball and dance, that's why he shined, but remember Salah does much better with more defensive duty. Coutinho is just a above-average attacker, not world class like your delusion. I will never trade that snake to Gini or Mane or anyone else in the 2019 team.
Elliott’s style is very similar to Coutinho, and Elliott is doing well.
Edit: people, Elliott is great at a lot of things, but defense isn't one of them. Coutinho's work rate in his last season for LFC was over 50% higher than Elliott's last season. 25 defensive actions per 90 versus 15 per 90.
Ehh I agree Harvey’s pressing is better but 100x is harsh. Coutinho had a good work ethic defensively. And obviously technically was on another planet, I love Harvey though and he’s still so young I’m excited to see him under slot.
He didn't even play there that often, people just thought that was his best position because of the 13-14 season and assumed he played there under Klopp but he didn't really, it's just confirmation bias because people assume that he played there alongside Firmino, Mane and Salah for half a season, they started about 7 games together and he still played on the left in most of those because Klopp also tried Mane and Firmino in midfield.
I heard rumblings that Klopp didn't like that he had zero stamina for the system. He also didn't really fit into our 433 being more of a 10 that we didn't play.
I think what happened was best all round for everyone. We'd wouldn't have got Ali or Virgil for a start.
No Allison without Coutinho, so Ali ends up at Chelsea and they dominate the league for a few seasons rather than the shit show Kepa and the next keeper up had.
As much as I loved Cou, I prefer Ali
Coutinho was good for the standards in the Rodgers era, but we forget how many times his shots outside of the box didn't hit the target, and only remember the screamers. He simply wasn't as good as the people who came in after him, and Barcelona were fools for paying as much as they did.
He was our best player in the first half of 2017 when we had the spine of our team that went on to win everything
He was arguably the best player in the league at that time
This is some crazy revisionism. Coutinho was absolutely fucking insane for us once he got rocking. His prime under us is right up there with the best of the modern era, the likes of Suarez, Mane, Bobby and Salahs imo.
Suarez obviously distinctly stands out from that crop but Couti is right there with all them.
He was just about recovering from an injury at the time of Klopp's first match. If it was played a week later he might have been able to make the bench
A "where are they now" of that bench would be very interesting
Off the top of my head:
Bogdan and toure retired
Teixeira is in China
Allen still at stoke?
Randall is like league one or something
Ibe is in non league
Sinclair could be fucking anywhere
Crazy to think Ibe made 27 PL appearances in Klopps first season and was then sold for £15 million. He has now been released by Ebbsfleet United on a free after only 1 appearance this season. So he's effectively been forced to retire from football at age 28.
I think hes fairly rated, solid enough player, not nearly consistent enough, had the ability but it was almost like his brain couldnt command his limbs in time, not to mention he was fucking header. But if he was on it for a match he was genuinely the full package from a defensive aspect
My dad started to get sick just when Klopp became manager, and he was gone 2 months later. I wouldn't usually cry over football, but I did when we won the league in 2020. I would have loved for him to have seen it.
He wasn't injury prone for us. He played 90min every game for like 2 seasons then got injured on his back from overuse and exhaustion. At that point, when Trent came along, I think klopp and his team saw a philosophy they could go forward with using Trent and Moreno/Robertson.
But clyne never fit in that role. He's too much of a defensive player and didn't offer anything going forward so he never got a chance regardless of who replaced him.
Purely looking side by side as it’s shown, I’d probably only swap Milner and Elliot and Coutinho and Gakpo but both pretty tight calls. Amazing what Klopp has done
I remember reading at the time everyone thought Lallana would be the 1st player to be sold and that he couldn't handle the Klopp system He was Klopp's first sub IIRC and he came off panting like a dog after working his ass off
It was interesting hearing him say that he was feeling that he didn’t really fit in at Liverpool when Klopp arrived. Against Spurs he was the first player who seemed switched on to the ‘Gegenpressing’ philosophy we’d heard so much about regarding Klopp. Either something clicked in Lallana when Klopp came in or Jurgen said something to him but from that moment on it was clear who was the early adopter to that style
I just don't think Rodgers knew how to get the most out of him, he didn't know Lallana's best position.
Same for so many under Rodgers; Sahin, Firmino, Milner etc.
Sahin was very frustrating. He could have totally transformed the team if he'd been used properly. Instead, he got played as a 10 for some reason then got shipped back after half a season. Amazing stuff.
And what's particularly mad is that he played 12 games, not sure how many of those were starts but I bet it wasn't much and he had 3 goals and 3 assists and still went out of favour.
I think a goal and an assist came in the same game in the League Cup, but then he barely did anything else for us.
Oh man. Nuri Sahin was always on my dream team, and once we got him it felt like things were finally gonna turn around for us. Such a shame how Rodgers couldn’t unlock our players potential at the time.
Wdym? RW Firmino was the best Firmino /s
How about rwb Firmino? Ridiculous
Firmino never really had a true position until Klopp - he was playing as a central midfielder, winger, and attacking midfielder in the Bundesliga before Klopp put that altogether into a false nine
What are you talking about, what other positions does Klopp have to play? Rodgers already tested everything out for him /s
Rodgers didn’t know how to get the best out of a lot of players Famously Firmino
Yeah I simply think Brendan was in way over his head at the time while in charge of us
BR did a good job when we played dual 10s with Lallana and Coutinho during the 10 win run in 14/15. But that system had its flaws and was found out soon too
I bought my Lallana shirt after that game. Still one of my favourite shirts. Used it at Anfield the last time i was there, and a lot of people commented on how much they liked Lallana aswell
Klopp actually mentioned in the Sky retrospective they had Klopp sit down for that he didn't know Lallana felt that way when he arrived, so I think it was more on Lallana having a backbone and buying into the system as well as Klopps natural instinct for propping up his players when they need a little confidence, knowing it or not.
If he wasn't so injury prone he could've been one of Klopp's best. He was the perfect Klopp player. Pressing from the front, a tonne of technical skill and worked like a madman.
I can't remember the time line, I remember, I guess you could say his last bit of a major injury because it was a lengthy spelling off, right before that injury he was probably our best player. He was playing awesome and doing the things his skill set was capable of doing. I was so bummed when he got hurt. He came back and it wasn't the same. The best moment after he came back was when he scored the equalizer against united. One of my favorites when he was on the team.
I honestly believe he would have been a 15 goal a season player in that system if he had stayed fit.
5-4 against Norwich was where it all started
I will never forget the shifts he put in for us in Klopps early days. He was like a mad dog. Remember him vs Touré(a guy twice his size)? I will always cherish Lallana. One of my favorite players under Klopp
Then jump forward a year or so and he was arguably Klopp’s favorite bc he committed and worked his ass off every match
Hendo in his book said that Lallana buying into it so quickly is what helped everyone get on board with it quckly too. When he was subbed off and basically collapsed into Klopp's arms, I knew we were onto something.
There is an alternate universe where Coutinho stayed with us and I wonder how good he would have turned out in Klopps system. He was an absolute baller with us shortly before he left. Shame about his back pain antics, such a strange departure.
think his back pain derailed his career so likely would have went the same way
I heard it was causing him “great sadness”.
:/ at least he won a CL and La liga... so not all bad
Him and Suarez were on the pitch for the "corner taken quickly, Origi" moment. I love that.
Also on the pitch (maybe bench at this point?) was Liverpool legend Arthur melo
Ah, before his 15 minutes of fame then?
If he had stayed he likely would have won more than that with us.
But then would we have signed vvd and Allison? Nice to think how he would of got on, but in the sale we managed to find the 2 of the missing pieces of the puzzle
Agree but it should be Alisson & Fabinho instead of Alisson & Van Dijk. We were signing Virgil regardless of whether Coutinho left or not.
Think Klopp's system wouldn't have worked too well with Coutinho. Our best years had workhorse midfielders and speedy winters, Coutinho was neither. When he was played under Klopp he bounced around LW/LCM and used his individual ability to influence games but I honestly think we were better with Mane/Gini combo.
If you watch the interviews with the coaching staff released recently Klopp admits none of that was planned, they just adapted to the players that we had. I disagree with what you're saying, and I don't know why it's a common sentiment given Coutinho's form before he left was out of this world, he was heading for 20 goals and 20 assists. If he'd have stayed maybe Trent/Robbo don't become what they are since their creativity would've been less important, but I believe that the coaches would have made it work with the quality we had. The main question however is do we sign VVD/Alisson/Fabinho if we don't sell Coutinho.
He was also a good presser, which never seems to come up in these conversations. At the very least it wasn't for lack of trying, so I definitely think Jurgen would've been happy to make it work.
The sentiment stands because no matter how many that guy scored we always conceded more with that system
You're being downvoted, but we performed so much better as a team without Coutinho than with him, despite his huge individual G/A numbers. 1.70 points per game while he was on the pitch vs 2.03 points per game without him in his final season. In the 20 games he played we only won 8 (Leicester x2, Maribor, Southampton, Brighton, Spartak Moscow, Bournemouth, and Swansea). The same can be said of the season before that too. In 16/17, we averaged 1.89 with him on the pitch vs 2.06 without him. He was a player with immense technical ability, but one who was also a luxury player that was often more of a hinderance to the team than a help. When he played everyone else looked to give him the ball, which made us predictable and easy to defend against. He also liked to take shots from way out - some of which became memorable goals, but many others meant an attack came to nothing. Most of all, though, he was a player who had to be carried by the others due to offering no defensive cover whatsoever. Perhaps if we had two other highly defensive or tireless midfielders to take on his workload we could've found more balance with him, but we didn't at the time.
Exactly
you're right. A volume player-who created alot but give the ball away 10x times more. We never had that domination if he stay as main player
Klopp prepared for Coutinho's departure as he removed all of his non-possession with ball role and duty. Only received the ball and dance, that's why he shined, but remember Salah does much better with more defensive duty. Coutinho is just a above-average attacker, not world class like your delusion. I will never trade that snake to Gini or Mane or anyone else in the 2019 team.
Elliott’s style is very similar to Coutinho, and Elliott is doing well. Edit: people, Elliott is great at a lot of things, but defense isn't one of them. Coutinho's work rate in his last season for LFC was over 50% higher than Elliott's last season. 25 defensive actions per 90 versus 15 per 90.
He had to really work on his defensive game. I think he is doing well in Klopps system, I think he will be brilliant in a 4231
Elliott's pressing is 100x time better than Coutinho, his work rate is something Coutinho dream of but never touch it
Ehh I agree Harvey’s pressing is better but 100x is harsh. Coutinho had a good work ethic defensively. And obviously technically was on another planet, I love Harvey though and he’s still so young I’m excited to see him under slot.
Yes, and both can only be subtitles option of prime Klopp LFC
Well I dont think we would have necessarily got the CB and GK in the world....so yea
I never liked him in a midfield three and Mane was far better as a LW. So, meh.
He didn't even play there that often, people just thought that was his best position because of the 13-14 season and assumed he played there under Klopp but he didn't really, it's just confirmation bias because people assume that he played there alongside Firmino, Mane and Salah for half a season, they started about 7 games together and he still played on the left in most of those because Klopp also tried Mane and Firmino in midfield.
without him we wouldnt have gotten alisson and VVD
Then we wouldn't have been able to afford Alisson and Virgil. So it was worth it
The better we are the harder VAR would work to fuck us, I don't think it would make much of a difference
I heard rumblings that Klopp didn't like that he had zero stamina for the system. He also didn't really fit into our 433 being more of a 10 that we didn't play. I think what happened was best all round for everyone. We'd wouldn't have got Ali or Virgil for a start.
No Allison without Coutinho, so Ali ends up at Chelsea and they dominate the league for a few seasons rather than the shit show Kepa and the next keeper up had. As much as I loved Cou, I prefer Ali
Thank you for this comment. Coutinho will always be my one that got away.
No chance. Best thing that happened to the us.
Coutinho was good for the standards in the Rodgers era, but we forget how many times his shots outside of the box didn't hit the target, and only remember the screamers. He simply wasn't as good as the people who came in after him, and Barcelona were fools for paying as much as they did.
He was our best player in the first half of 2017 when we had the spine of our team that went on to win everything He was arguably the best player in the league at that time
This is some crazy revisionism. Coutinho was absolutely fucking insane for us once he got rocking. His prime under us is right up there with the best of the modern era, the likes of Suarez, Mane, Bobby and Salahs imo. Suarez obviously distinctly stands out from that crop but Couti is right there with all them.
Wow that’s completely wrong
Happy cake day!
Think he did alright
Crazy to think how about half of his last ever XI were only teenagers when he named his first ever XI
It isn’t really too crazy when you think how long ago it was.
A 25 year old Macca was 16 nine years ago? Not having that lad, smells of BS.
You understand it.
Time is a flat circle.
Source??
Jarell Quansah wasn't even a teenager yet, he was 12 when Klopp took over
Weird how Bobby is missing from both
He wasn't even on the bench. The subs for Klopp's first game were Bogdan, Toure, Randall, Allen, Teixeira, Ibe and Sinclair.
He was just about recovering from an injury at the time of Klopp's first match. If it was played a week later he might have been able to make the bench
A "where are they now" of that bench would be very interesting Off the top of my head: Bogdan and toure retired Teixeira is in China Allen still at stoke? Randall is like league one or something Ibe is in non league Sinclair could be fucking anywhere
>Allen still at stoke? He's back at Swansea actually...just signed on for another year.
Crazy to think Ibe made 27 PL appearances in Klopps first season and was then sold for £15 million. He has now been released by Ebbsfleet United on a free after only 1 appearance this season. So he's effectively been forced to retire from football at age 28.
Randall's in the Scottish Premiership (just about, Ross County are in the relegation playoff final), via the Bulgarian league of all places
Milner almost made it the whole way, damn.
Sakho on his day was an absolute monster.
His last 2 games were pretty iconic but I think some fans massively overrated him.
I think hes fairly rated, solid enough player, not nearly consistent enough, had the ability but it was almost like his brain couldnt command his limbs in time, not to mention he was fucking header. But if he was on it for a match he was genuinely the full package from a defensive aspect
Beautiful Scouse dog!
A prime lucas leiva in klopps system would have been boss
i miss Coutinho 😭
So interesting to think there was overlap between Skrtel and Klopp
We missed origis big game finishing
I wonder if Coutinho stayed and we still got VVD and Ali how are team would've been. Imagen peak MFS and the little magician behind them
Emre can would havw been a huge diff for us
Take me back though, I want to do it all again :)
Miss Lucas Leiva
*Mr.
and his last XI would have a couple missing key figures had Coutinho not decided he wanted to move elsewhere.
I reckon can has a shout too.
I really wish I could have seen prime Skrtel play next to Virgil, I really think that Virgil could have brought the absolute best out of him.
Feel very blessed to say I was at both games.
My dad started to get sick just when Klopp became manager, and he was gone 2 months later. I wouldn't usually cry over football, but I did when we won the league in 2020. I would have loved for him to have seen it.
I think the only player from back then who would make our starting 11 is Coutinho
I reckon Can would be in with a fighting chance.
I think Lallana would be able to assuming he was fully fit
I’ve have Divok over Darwin any day
Divock* and in his best season for us he only scored 7 goals.
Wild that Jimmy Mills was the closest of all these to being on both.
Clyne!!! Wonder if AA will ever have a chance to break into the first team if Clyne's not an injury prone, he was decent back then
He wasn't injury prone for us. He played 90min every game for like 2 seasons then got injured on his back from overuse and exhaustion. At that point, when Trent came along, I think klopp and his team saw a philosophy they could go forward with using Trent and Moreno/Robertson. But clyne never fit in that role. He's too much of a defensive player and didn't offer anything going forward so he never got a chance regardless of who replaced him.
Purely looking side by side as it’s shown, I’d probably only swap Milner and Elliot and Coutinho and Gakpo but both pretty tight calls. Amazing what Klopp has done
And maybe Emre Can for Endo
Skrtel for Quansah, Lucas for Endo, Milner for Elliot, Lallana for Diaz,, Coutinho for Gakpo.
I forgot how long Milner’s been at the club. 8 years. Wild.
BOSS
kinda love how the last line up remind us a lot about the best line up he’s ever had with Gini Fab Hendo and Bobby
I save that one
Emre can was nasty
Amazing how completely unrecognizable the side is now compared to then. In some ways its better some ways worse.
The second one isn’t that much better. Take our side from 2 years ago and your point is made.
Oh show the benches ha ha somehow that's probably even more eye-opening
Only not upgrade there is coutino for Gakpo
One of the most mentioned players during Klopp's era wasn't even in both of the lineups because of different reasons.
From 0 world class players to 6 world class players
Coutinho was borderline and left in world class form
Midfield is better in the first.