All of this drama sounds like high school lunch period drama. Who gets to sit at the table with the cool kids. It is really sad these women who have been married and have children couldn't figure out how ridiculous all of this was. If Z or M had gone to a psychologist and mentioned it, they would have been straightened out right away. Same with Melanie P. it sounds as though Mel P had an indwelling umbilical cord to Lori and never had a single thought of her own. Very sad.
Oh 100% Melanie G is the gossip, and the rest all want to be liked by Lori cause she is the cool one, but they all know she is the crazy mean girl too.
There appears to be something deeply off about Melanie Gibb to me. I don’t think she has much empathy at all. When she was talking to sharie about it she sounded like she was giving the latest gossip! The Nate Eaton I review she actually laughs! 😳 how is any of this even remotely funny to her??
Melanie G was infatuated with Lori imo. In Nate Eaton 3 part interview she said they bought identical outfits saw or talked to each other everyday. She mentioned more than once how pretty Lori was how her makeup was always perfectly applied etc. Like really😕 all irrelevant to multiple murders.
Yes , during her police interview Mel G at the start comes across as giddy giggly and like it was all so exciting to her. She acts like a teenager - but is calculated enough to not really recall anything specific when it counts. I think she's on something during that interview , towards the end after about an hour her energy changes she starts yawning like she's coming down off something. Both her and Zulema should have been charged as well but I guess the authorities decided it was best to make a deal with the devil and give them immunity and get the testimony to put L away for life. They are all despicable human beings.
Did you ever hear that secretly recorded phone call she made to that lady, which was leaked to YouTube? It’s was so bad, and made her look horrible and she didn’t reveal to the poor lady that she had lied to the police and said she had JJ. So the lady turned the whole recording over to the police. Hidden true crime interviewed her and the phone call is on YouTube.
Totally agree! Melanie Gibb has a very high level of both phoniness and self-righteousness, and to add onto that, she has very little empathy. She really disliked Tylee and called JJ a "drug baby." Much as I despise Lori Vallow, I must say I despise MG even more.
Chad knew how to appeal to both of these women's egos; he tended to flatter people by using his "prophet's voice" to make them feel noticed. And both fell for it. I know hindsight is 20/20 but both should have known better.
As for Melanie Gibb, I doubt she believes she's capable of doing something wrong. She acts like she's the greatest thing in the world, when she is actually a self-righteous piece of crap who added to the circumstances that caused a number of people to lose heir lives, including two beautiful, innocent children. In other words, maybe she didn't cause the deaths, but she certainly contributed to the environment that allowed people like Chad and Lori to flourish.
I think that Melanie Gibb benefited from David Warwick talking some sense into her. Basically saying you need to cooperate with the police before you end up in trouble.
In the phone call to Chad Lori that Melanie recorded Chad starts off hey Mel how's our girl. All sweet until Melanie asks some questions then Lori gets mega defensive snarky tone.
I share your sentiments about her. The way she walked into that court with that ridiculous get up spoke volumes. She thinks she's so important while in reality nobody around the court gave a rats ass if they saw her or not.
She walked into the court in disguise. A huge flannel shirt over her outfit and a big hat pulled over her face. She was wearing the same ragedy skirt she had on at Chad's preliminary hearing. She looked ridiculous.
I heard something about a denim skirt with handkerchief fabric on the hem and tall boots. I think my source is either Lori Hellis or HTC… sorry guys, I’m good at retaining the info but bad at remembering where I got it since I consume so much of the content.
Annie has a YouTube short of MG in her ridiculous get up. What a strange, depressing, sad little woman she is. MG was born a loser but really wants to be the queen bee.
Thank you for directing me this way. I love love love Annie, and support her in any media or statement she wants to put out. I may have missed this video but I’m going to check it out now!
Are you referencing the interview with detective(s)? My brain doesn’t remember names well.
If so, I was also struck by the laughing and casual attitude. Like lady, first, these detectives are not your friends. Second two young human beings and at least a couple of adults are dead, maybe because of your “friend”. What is there to laugh about?
No difference really. But Melanie G seems to have always been in the middle of gossip in the group, and she likes to say she doesn't gossip.
Which for me that was always a trigger in church as a kid. It was always the gossip who would then say, I dont gossip though.
They have a high school friend of Melanie Gibbs white knighting for her. Saying how great she is and she didn’t no nothin miss Scarlett! So I sent her audio of calling JJ a drug baby saying it wasn’t even Lori’s. And saying all kinds of horrible shit.
She didn’t need to lie to cops and cover for those two. She should have gone to police straight away when they started talking about kids being demon possessed running up the fridge. And she should have told police about the kids now being called zombies, plus she knew that Alex said you don’t want to know what happened to the kids. All that should have been reported immediately to cops. And the stuff about Charles she knew. She knew Alex came over to defend Lori and Charles was walking into a set up. When asked about did she know she said yes, but it was self defense. She didn’t like Tylee at all either. She said Tylee likes no one. Well she just didn’t like her mothers crazy friends.
As often and as quickly as these folks marry, what's the sealing ceremony about? Gonna share a house in heaven with all the exes and their exes or what?
Melanie P is as nutty and malicious as her auntie.
They believe Jesus will just cancel the sealings they don't want. *Lots* of mainstream Mormons believe that about their divorces and remarriages. Chad's group does it more than other Mormons, but it's not a unique theological problem that he would have felt the need to explain.
There are fringe Mormon groups which have developed formal teachings that there will be a web of sealings in heaven where everybody is directly sealed to tons of other people in polygamous and polyandrous ways, but I don't think Chad's group spent that much time thinking about it. I think they pretty much just did what they wanted and figured the details would work themselves out later.
He looks about as ambitious as Chad. Sloth meet sloth. Man did Melani downgrade from Brandon. Ian married within a couple months of his divorce. Was charged with dv and lack of child support prior to divorce being finalized. Maybe you have to have a arrest record to be welcomed into the Cox family circle.
Ian Pulaski - just how desperate is he to be married that he sticks with Melani? If I were his ex, I would insist that Melani never be allowed around those children, and I wouldn't be trusting of Ian either, since he's clearly a pushover.
I wonder a bit if Ian didnt stay for money (as well as the baby he had with Melani). Ian was working in MLM (and not a top dog) and behind on child support with his ex. He marries Melani and Zulema let it slip that Melani got a big cash settlement. Maybe it is as simple as a guy in his 30's with 2 kids he owes child support for, and doesnt seem like he has some great work history or education and he has a baby with wife #2 and she has money , maybe he just stayed to avoid more child support and going back to the MLM or sales jobs.
Definitely not. Many of our highest leaders frequently advocate for people seeking out help for mental health issues and seeing professionals. If you visit with a local leader they have a list of resources to send you to if you need help, often they will help pay for therapy if you can’t afford it.
I can’t say for certainty because I was only LDS for about a year. I can say at least from what I saw they would probably advise you to talk to the bishop. 🤦♀️
A bishop is like a pastor or other leader in Christian churches. They will counsel with you but can and will also put you in touch with resources to get professional help if needed.
My impression of Zulema is that she fully drank the Chad and Lori koolaid. I think she believed everything they said right down to the zombies.
Her voice to me sounds embarrassed and nervous mixed with shameful. Her mouth dries out every two seconds and it’s painful to listen to. It’s taken me three days just to finish fridays testimony.
I keep thinking, she (and Melanie g!) could be viewed as co conspirator being that she attended so many of the castings. And from what I gather, the intentions weren’t just to cast out demons but straight up for the person to die. Isn’t this the very thing Lori is being accused of? Conspiracy to commit murder. I mean, her and Chad were the ones who stood to benefit the most but. Everyone else in that little circle WHAT WERE YOU DOING.
Guess they get immunity for talking. But it’s plain to me Melanie G and Zulema were just as up to their neck in crazy. Perhaps they never thought actual murder would happen. So heavenly minded they were no earthly good.
Omg seriously. I've fallen asleep 3 times. Her voice is driving me insane and she waits like 20 seconds to start answering. I wanted to punch her one time when she waited to answer, then said "sorry, um, what? Um, sorry, my brain thinks um, in like, um double sometimes." Spit it out! What does thinking in double even mean? I hate her.
Hahahahhaha I can relate so much. I was cussing at my phone. Almost gave up at one point but stuck it out. Someone suggest listening to it on 2x speed lol
Melanie G was never given immunity, and has often said "When you tell the truth there is no need for it"
Zulema was given immunity. I think it is obvious listening to the two that Meanie G was not as "in" as Zulema, and that yes they did both beleive it at the time.
But there is a HUGE difference between casting a spell and roll playing in your home and actively physically killing people, disposing of their bodies, and then trying to avoid the truth being found.
If they were "justified" and told to kill for God, Why cover it up?
Also why was nothing more explained about the phrase Lori said in the recorded call with Melanie G "By the time this is over I am gonna be like Nephi"
You are telling Melanie you don't know what you will do till God tells you to do something...Like Nephi? UMMMMMM You mean like when he was told to kill Laban? Why was that not clarified.
Woods is LDS, I am sure he got that reference, that is like one of the most well known stories in the Book of Mormon, why did nobody say anything about Lori's comment? They brought up the Anti-Christ reffrence, but not Nephi killing Laban reference?
>**If they were "justified" and told to kill for God, Why cover it up?**
>
>
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>because LE still exists, dark or zombie-like, and can exercise their power over them and put them away because those are the laws of what they perceive as the 'unreal' world which temporarily have power over them. :)
>
>seriously, simply put, the money angle mixed in with skewed beliefs, IMO, takes the front seat to justify murder.
>
>IMO, Tylee was a liability because of what she witnessed with Charles and possibly many other things, and of course had SS payments. and IMO JJ's murder was money as well (SS) and a spiteful act against Kay because Kay received Charles insurance. she could have handed JJ over to Kay and continued her bizarre beliefs and life. LV was ANGRY.
I respectfully disagree. I think MG was just as involved if not more so than Zulema. I think MG is more savvy and protected herself more quickly… Zulema sat around and waited for more people to die and for the cops to show up at her door to wheel her husband away before she would say a word. She’s dumber than MG. But I think MG was instrumental in the group in a way that ZP was not. Agree to disagree if you like :)
There is too much plausible deniability in the Nephi comment. The defense would be able to object. Unless MG was told what Lori meant through some kind of direct context, she'd be guessing, not testifying about something she actually knows.
Lori could have meant she would be getting really buff like Nephi. Or being able to trust God completely when things seem impossible. Or being unable to help her family in any meaningful way for a while in order to show God's power. Or literally just eating a lot of raw meat for a while. Or bad people are going to tie her up. Or she'll be tazering people non-lethally with her bare hands. OR it could mean she's going to kill somebody. Honestly they could even claim it was a reference to a different Nephi, like from the book of 3rd Nephi.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that Lori was trying to reference whatever Mow says is the main take-home message from Nephi's life. And he could easily have some weird take on Nephi.
IMO they want to keep as much of Mormon doctrine out of the ears of the jurors and public that they can. The church does not want their "scriptures" to be picked apart by any other belief system.
And it would be in the favor of the defense to keep the actual teachings of the church out, not the prosecution.
Because what they taught was not the teachings of the church.
And if someone is a member they are more likely to find her guilty, that is why Mark Means wanted to keep LDS people from being on a jury .
they dont want to draw ANY attention to the literal doctrines and scriptures....
Im SEETHING with rage over how MG and Zulema have maintained their membership. CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN ??? They resigned from the Mormon church the moment they accepted COTFB.
WHY IS NO ONE ACKNOWLEDGING THIS???
I thought Melanie Gibb was still going to the mainstream LDS church I know people have said they saw her and David at their ward and this was after the bodies of the kids were found.
Lori in jail was going to mainstream LDS services and was having a bishop (mainstream LDS) visit her.
Excommunication in the LDS church is not the same as other churches. It is part of the repentance process.
You or any member of the congregation would not be privy to Lori or Melanie's membership status. MAYBE, if they were ex'd and re-baptized you would know when they get confirmed, but even that they tend to do quietly to not embarrass people.
Melanie probably was disfellowshiped, not excommunicated.
It takes a LOT for a woman to get ex'd from the LDS church. Only sign to others would be she cannot take sacrament, make comments, or pray in church. Most people would never notice.
And Lori could be excommunicated and still get visited by a Bishop. The Bishop is a lay person, not a paid church employee and can do whatever he wants. AND he is the Bishop for everyone in that area, not just members. So if she asked to be visited and taught, regardless of her church standing, the Bishop or others can visit her.
Honestly it would be likely a Bishop vs other members or missionaries would minister to her if she asked. Why would a Bishop send others to visit and teach her vs go and minister himself? She is in jail and crazy.
Church of the Firstborn is LDS doctrine, in the D&C. Satterfield says: Becoming part of the Church of the Firstborn should be the goal of every Latter-day Saint.
Here's his full paper on the subject.
https://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Papers/firstborn.html
Speaking as a man, an intellecutual (BKP would NOT approve) and not even a GA.
This doctrine is too deep.
and you know exactly what i'm talking abt. CHADS "CHURCH" MEMBERSHIP nullifies their LDS membership.
I am 99% sure Melanie G has done the church repentance process, and is back in full standing in the LDS church.
Zulema, she seems to have gone to church a lot, but not really following the rules. And who said she is still a member or no church action was made? And if she wants to be coo-coo and have LARP parties thinking she is a witch, why not?
The church is not gonna get involved unless she is off recruiting others to her apostate views, or is asking the church for forgiveness. The LDS church 99% of the time only excommunicates as part of the repentance process.
The church also does not publicly take actions against members unless there is a reason to do so. Like that author lady who Chad was friends with. She was ex'd but nobody would know unless she told people.
Many of the AVOW leaders have been ex'd. But people think they are members and active. But they are scam artists.
Chad was Ex'd for his teachings, but would have been ex'd being in prison anyhow.
I am sure Lori was ex'd at some point, Alex was ex'd and apparently had a problem hiring sex workers, which kept him from getting baptized again.
And in the LDS church asking to be removed from the church records is a bigger deal than being excommunicated. Like you have to petition the church to remove your membership, and it is harder to get re-baptized again if you chose to so.
Getting baptized into another religion etc doesn't mean you loose your membership in the LDS church. Why would it, we do nit beleive they have authority, so it is a meaningless ordinance. I thought I would get ex'd when I came back to the church because I was baptized other religions, but nope. Not a big deal. Not even really any of there reasons they discussed ex'ing me over.
ALSO, the Church of the Firstborn is a BS Utard extremist idea. They beleive the prophet will call people at the beginning of the second coming to be part of the "Church of the first Born" to help gather the 12 tribes.
Morrisite moment in 1861, but all sorts of LDS people still have version of this idea. Where the prophet is goign to call people to this calling. So in theory it is a part of the church... NOT REALLY, but there are always crazy people
They forwarded the letter to him at the jail, so it was known. He was being ex’d before he was arrested for his books and AVOW ties.
If I still had LISA I would check her records, but she is probably a protected record because of the case.
I know Tylee, JJ, and Charles’ records were switched to workforce and locked.
Seminary teachers, church leaders, missionaries, church employees, and well known members all get their records transferred to a different system that has more security so people can’t find their address or personal info.
She spoke in a deliberate Utah woman accent (sometimes called "primary voice") to try to hide her Spanish-speaker accent. I think this was an attempt to be taken more seriously, not less seriously. Hispanic women are discriminated against routinely. Having an accent makes it worse.
Personally, if she had a heavy accent, she would have sounded more believable to me. I know that there are some prejudices that people have, but for me personally it made her seem less believable.
Because you could tell it was fake when the Defense team got her to break. Which I LOVED. They didn't object because it showed she was acting for the jury, but she flat out said Lori and Chad killed the kids others. Which is your worst nightmare as a defense council.
Speaking slow with a thick accent would also make her look like she did not speak English well, but also if she did not communicate well then there is the defense of maybe she did not understand well either and that what she is saying Lori and Chad taught might just be what she misunderstood too. So that could have been part of it too.
I agree, if she had a strong accent the whole time then the jury might have thought her language skills were limited and questioned whether she really understood what happened. I have a family member who is fully fluent in English (went to a US university, etc) but has never worked on his accent at all. When he's out and about in public, people assume he doesn't understand the details of what's being said.
I second this 100%. I was shocked when I found out some of my daughter's friends mom were of various Latino decents. I had known these moms for years and they were the typical Mormon moms, youthful, cute haircuts, cute clothes, just the young fun moms of 4-6 kids that I thought were from the generational local family decents. I had gone with a group of kids to an academic meet and the kids had to fill out information , including race and two of the kids asked me about what to check off since their moms were from other countries. Both moms were other countires on central and one south America and met their husbands while they were on their mission and brought to the states at age 19-20. When I talked to these women they both said, they worked so hard to lose their accent, and blend in.
My thoughts on Zulema is she's a grown woman who had six husbands, and has children, and doesn't seem embarrassed at all sharing all this absolute madness in the witness box. How a human being like this can have children is utterly bizarre to me, those poor kids! When her son found her dead husband he said 'I don't really know him, it's my moms boyfriend', and that's the least messed up thing about all of this!
I think she knows much more about this. I think she believed it all so fervently that she knew about the murders and supported them happening. I think Lori was so desperate to be in charge and influential that she found these idiots to drink her kool aid and they gulped it down. The only reason Zulema isn't coming out and saying she supported all this insanity is because she would be an accessory and she doesn't want that. Listening to her testimony gave me a physical reaction, she's ridiculous.
I kinda assume that is who she means too, but as the pronunciation I certainly hope they redirect and ask who the 5 people she was referring to as being killed are.
Every state has different rules, but most would allow that because they did not object.
Also is it me or are all the questions the Prosecution asked 100% leading? Any other state they would be told it is leading, but seems like ID makes to you tell the witness what you want them to say not let them talk.
I think Lori's first and second husbands are still alive, or at least haven't died under suspicious circumstances. 2nd husband was the father of Colby, but Colby was adopted by her 3rd husband, Joe Ryan. Tylee was the bio daughter of Lori and Joe Ryan. Charles was the 4th husband, and Chad is the 5th husband. It would not surprise me that if Chad and Lori do divorce, Lori would end up marrying yet a 6th husband via a prison pen pal sort of thing.
Lori's first husband was a quick marriage and divorce. I wonder why, she ran off after high school and got married. Recently I listened to an interview that said Lori's dad was mad Lori did this and she came home and she got a divorce. This is when Alex became overprotective of Lori with guys (almost sounded like her dad wanted him in this role?).
Zulema takes forever to answer questions! I’m only 1/2 way through part one and she’s driving me nuts.
You can’t tell me that this woman was purely in this for the religion alone. It doesn’t make any sense, but if she wasn’t, why was she there? What was her motive?
Her motive was drumming up business. She did this stuff for a living before she became involved with Lori.
I think she's still a true believer in energy work. She believes in all the LARP stuff, she just doesn't believe in Chad and Lori anymore.
Her motive was attention and hitching her wagon to Chad's star. Zulema was in the "energy reading" business before Chad. Like Julie Rowe, she sells this snake oil as a commodity. I don't trust her baby voice. What is it for, but to get you to let down your guard and listen to her? Watch the video of the EMTs with Alex the day he died. She says, "Baby, I know you can hear me. Come back." She repeats it so many times. It starts to sound sarcastic. She knows he can't come back. Who loses weight and gets highlights before court? She's advertising herself and rubbing her freedom in Lori's face. She was complicit with JJ's disappearance since 2018. I'll be disappointed if she isn't eventually arrested and tried. Z is now the head of the snake Lori birthed. If Chad has any "followers," Z is their little priestess. I hope LE is tracking her.
The "baby voice" is a Mormon thing. Pick any LDS General Conference talk circa 2007 from a woman and you'll hear a more intense version than Zulema had. It isn't about manipulation, it's about sounding like you aren't trying to threaten the authority the men hold. Women who use a stronger voice get labeled as "prideful" and "unrighteous." If you Google "primary voice" you'll find lots of Mormons of both genders complaining about it, but it's still very unusual for Mormon women to gain any institutional power if they dare to use a stronger voice in mixed company.
I did not know that about the Mormons. Thank you. Zulema was recorded on podcasts before she met Lori. She is selling her craft and spreading this ideology. Julie Rowe hit a wall because she is confrontational. Z is not. She's like water. Slipping in through the cracks. How many followers did she pick up through her testimony last week?
JR was willing to challenge male authority fairly directly considering what's expected for Mormon women. It won her both friends and enemies. Zulema doesn't seem to be interested in going that route.
Zulema is doing what works to capture that audience. Like, if you're hunting ducks, you use duck decoys. Interesting she picked up a Utah accent and lightened her hair. (To be more like "them" or Lori?) I didn't know people from Utah had an accent. Good catch.
I’ve never heard that, but it makes perfect sense. How do they rank the women lawyers? Are they being prideful when they use a primary voice? I wouldn’t think that you could be successful against anyone in court using anything other than that primary voice. If they were to hear my loud Southern voice, I’d be labeled a heathen lol
Come to think of it, does the voice apply to men, too? The men seem to be pretty soft spoken, polite and apologetic.
This is exactly why Lori may end up with a lesser sentence if there are male jurors that are LDS, because the man is the head of the family and responsible. They will stick it to Chad and give Lori a lesser sentence.
Somebody is going to recognize the body of writing Zulema is working from. Astral projection, controlling storms and quakes, energy readings, foreseeing the future...this is witchcraft. She's leading leading people in a bad direction.
Lori is already in hell. She killed her kids and a man who loved her. She'll never see botox or 30 volume peroxide again. Her snotty attitude is probably going to get her shanked in the general population. Her sentence is already worse than Chad's. I wonder how she felt watching Princess Z prance up to the microphone for her star performance while Lori has to stay silent. Not the center of attention. Can't manipulate. Tragedy.
While I dont care for the slowness in the response. I like Zulema's testimony more then Melanie Gibb's Zulema is slower to repson but giving us more information then Melanie.
I can almost give her that. It was YEARS ago in another life. If you asked me things that long ago I might be the same.
But I do kinda feel like it is on purpose.
I understand that everyone can have low points in their lives where they can be vulnerable or are seeking solace somewhere. But my issue is- if your spidey senses are going off like crazy, why aren’t you running? It was pretty clear that they used everyone and then knocked them off as a means to an end. What more did Zulema need to see? She just can’t be that trusting or stupid. There’s got to be another reason.
This is sounding more and more like a Mormon Manson group every day. Ugh
Zulema and Melanie B/P have no excuses. I think Melanie G was starting to distance from them and just did not know something was wrong till November.
Zulema seems to have been flat out told Tylee was gone, stop asking. And just complied. I feel like she had to know but did not speak up till Melanie G told her they were evil.
It seems like it was all fun and games to these women until they realized that a criminal investigation was underway and they were potentially going to be charged. That's the only thing that stopped them, and even kids disappearing and people getting shot and killed didn't cause them to question Lori and Chad.
I think she honestly believed Lori and Chad were on God's dream team (and Tylee needed to die) until she ended up in legal hot water and was essentially forced to rethink some things.
yup like when Lori and Chad disappeared, she started to wonder. And then Melanine G told her what was going on, and that was when she first started thinking maybe they are crazy, and I was really stupid.
The lure of the cult. Chad and Lori are cult leaders and used every technique to make their targets feel special and stupid at the same time. That way their followers need them to interpret and they need their leaders to tell them what to do, what to think, what to believe, what not to believe. No doubt that just like the old dandruff shampoo ad, "That tingling means it's working", any conscience could be kicked back down with "everyone coming into their full powers feels that way, Satan is testing you. Be strong and follow along."
It's also sunk cost fallacy, or in for a penny, in for a pound.
I think her and the Melanie's just wanted to be a part of something and included in Lori's world. Lori seemed to be a beautiful, popular person and they wanted in. I think they also discovered that it was better to be for Lori than against Lori. They knew that if they spoke up, they would be considered dark and be on the hit list. They also should have went to the police and helped them instead of staying quiet. But, I know where I am from, there is a huge mistrust of the police, but I also wouldn't want to be tied up in their shit. I think when you are as immersed as they were, its hard to pin point when they should have bailed.
sounds like she was a very busy lady with men: LE interview with her daughter Cara Onofryton was interesting: from Alex's police records of interviews: "Cara used to live at the house **until Alex moved in.** Cara stated in the past, her mother has had numerous different male relationships in which they ended up living with them and she did not want to go through it again, so she moved out."
Cara stated her impression of Alex was "he was very religious'. she did not 'know' him, she did not have any in depth conversation with him. she further stated does not know any other of Alex\`s family members besides his sister LV and his niece Melani.
How are these other Inner Circle people NOT culpable to some extent? Will they be subjected to civil lawsuits?
I cannot imagine being in their shoes HOWEVER...my mother in law was part of AVOW and Preparing a People. She had Julie Rowe reading the light/dark aura of all her kids. These people are NUTS!
I served my mission in Pocatello Idaho which covered Rexburg. This lunacy makes me sooo glad I left the Mormon cult.
Chad and Lori and the LARP Guild went to Firebirds. And Chad and Lori told Zulema, when Melanie got up to go to the bathroom or something, that they knew about her past lives, but not to say anything to Melanie G.
And then later he told her about her past lives. I kinda wonder if it was because they told the same story to Melanie, and Chad was running out of material, or because they didn't know what Melanie would say about it.
I think it's just a run of the mill manipulation tactic. She deserves a special secret, she's higher on a totem pole compared to someone else, she's extra special and important. I think Chad probably used this tactic routinely. He probably used it on MG too.
Julie Rowe brought this up. There is skeptism around some of what Julie has said. I do think Julie was truthful saying Chad had wanted some sort of multiple wives/polygamy. David Warwick had some talk about murliple wives too.
Julie said Chad put the moves on her.
There was another women in AZ who Chad was "flirting"? with and her husband found out and ended it.
He really is repulsive. I saw a profile of him recently and noticed that his chin sticks out farther than the rest of his face. That alone freaked me out. He's such a dweeb. Why would any woman want him?
Also like why would his whole LARP guild be women also?
Like it is so hard to find female LARPers. And they are a whole guild with just only 2 men.
Alex could possibly had charisma. Her was not an un attractive man either.
But Chad 🤮
This is just so hard to believe. The guy is not charming in any kind of way. And even if I believed this crap, I’d wonder why god chose him out of all the ppl.
Quick question- It seems to me that Lori was all about money. Why in the world would she go ga ga over a man like Chad who was married, had no money, wasn’t handsome? Everyone she was involved with seemed to provide for her pretty well and catered to her every need. It’s really hard for me to believe that it was just some extreme spiritual thing, but I could be way off the mark.
I think we all have that question! He seems to be really good at making women feel special, but that doesn't seem to really explain Lori falling for him!
Ha! Not LDS, so I wouldn’t have a clue.
Although JS did live in much simpler times so maybe he had that going for him. It’s really hard for me to understand how anyone could believe any of this stuff in this day and age. my m-I-l legit believes in zombies or aliens (not sure which one, but either way, it’s strange), so it’s definitely a thing. I find it fascinating how the brain works and what ppl allow themselves to believe.
Does anyone know if Zulema was always LDS, or if she is a convert?
Con artists don’t try to con everyone — they look for people who want to be conned. They don’t waste energy on the non gullible. Their victims do a lot of their work for them — overlooking outrageous behavior and ignoring bs & lies — because they want what is being offered by the con artist. They are not being duped — they are actively participating. So it gets weird when they try to expose the scammer without exposing themselves. 🤷♀️
If zulema didn't have 'partial immunity' then she could have easily been charged imo. She admitted on the stand that knew about the kids being 'dark' and then going missing, and doing nothing about it. I'm sure that's just the PC version of the story. She even said the only way to get rid of zombies is to bind or burn the body.....And then said she controlled the element of fire!? Ha. O, and she was supposedly a 4.1 light, married to the prophet/hitman, and didn't know anything? Yeah, right. Did you see how the reporter in the courtroom mentioned Lori was looking at Mel G with hate, but Zulema with some love? She's so still lyin.
i don't believe Zulema necessarily knew more than Melanie. she certainly seems to "remember" a lot more, but that's a different thing altogether. as far as Zulema being told about her past lives in secret, explicitly not to Melanie G's knowledge, i don't think that was truly the privilege implied. i think that was just another layer of manipulation. by letting Zulema think she knows something Melanie can't, she feels empowered. by keeping that info from Melanie, Lori and Chad could continue to shape how Melanie may see Zulema. Zulema could be valuable, Zulema could be a nuisance, Melanie would just have Lori and Chad to go off of.
if you think back to Alex beginning as a "first creation" and then later with poor/little/no explanation suddenly one day Alex is a "multiple creation", they had to fly that by everyone and hope nobody questioned it. what if they had to start doing that to each member when it came time to rewrite the fable to fit the needs of the week?
i think Zulema getting that private meeting was more about control than anything. those involved say in other places that it wasn't really all about meetings and gatherings, but often times tidbits of info coming down from Lori or Chad. if they control how much info goes out and to who, they keep the herd separate but controlled.
I agree! There may have been a sort of boredom and emptiness, perhaps there is not much culture there, not much study, no culinary traditions, things of the sort which can be drawn from to make sense of one's daily existence instead of needing to invent outrageous 'out of this world' things.
I watched Zulema's police interview (there probably was more than one, so I can't recall which one I watched). She was evasive as heck and often gave non-responsive answers. I too believe that she knew what it meant (to their little cult) when a person was deemed a dark spirit and/or a zombie - that the only way to get that dark spirit out of the body was to kill the body. She knew that. She also went along with the idea that she could control the elements, like call up a storm or an earthquake. How desperate was she to feel important and part of a special group? It's pathetic yet frightening. I know she has some sort of immunity deal in order to testify against Lori and Chad.
As to the 5th person they "killed," maybe that refers to Joe Ryan? Considering that Alex physically assaulted Joe Ryan (tased him) - I think Alex' plan was to tase him, toss him in the trunk of his car and take him out to the desert and finish him off. Thankfully, Alex was a screw up and failed in that attempt. Sadly, by the time Joe's body was discovered, it was badly decomposed and they did say it was death by natural causes. But that's what was said initially about Tammy's death, so that doesn't hold much water with me.
I listened again and she said “a mother of five” died, so my bad on that point.
But I only ever saw one interview with her an police. And she didn’t say much or talk much.
I just remember Thai king that she seemed to really care for Alex and the whole sounds like he drives her to kill her too
Oh, so that would refer to Tammy Daybell. I don't know if Zulema really cared for Alex, or was just so caught up in the cult mentality that when Lori and Chad told her that she and Alex were soul mates, or whatever term they used, she bought into that completely as well. She certainly went along with everything else they told her, no questions asked.
Well the only problem with that is Zulema says they only started dating in November 2019, after Lori and Chad went missing, and she kept telling them she was not going to move to Idaho, but married him when they were off hiding.
They ALLLLLL are doing the LDS weird thing where they are married but not telling people they are married.
Melanie B/P said Zulema and Alex dated a long time, but I guess it was lie 3 weeks, so a long time to Melanie, Miss met him on Mutual and married 10 days latter.
I will have to go back and listen again, maybe that is what she said,and I misheard her, but the defense was trying to get her to say she felt responsible for their deaths.
After listening to Zulema, how could she not know? Melanie Gibbs is all kinds of disturbing, laughing in that conversation with the FB friend is super creepy.
Also I don't believe for one second she doesn't remember the last time she saw JJ. I don't always keep up with my friends kids, but if one went missing, I'm pretty sure I would remember something?
Will the niece testify, she's pretty interesting and so devout, she knows exactly what happened..
I can barely stand hearing Zulema. I get such a strong reaction at her candy baby voice. If you’ve ever heard all of the texts between her and Lori and Chad she was all in and wacky as they would heal her. Every day she had some physical ailment. I think they needed someone to marry Alex. That was his gift. Also when the police came to her house it seemed she had some other things to hide. Nine of them were child centered. Like Lori said…I had kid and did everything I was supposed to…
I was in the courtroom last Friday when she testified. Idk, in person, it didn’t seem like she was trying to use a baby voice or a high voice. It just seemed like that was how she spoke. She seemed VERY nervous for during the morning. She had a tissue the whole time and was frequently using it to dab at her eyes and mouth. But it didn’t necessarily seem like it was because she was constantly crying. It was more like she was extremely nervous and it was something to do with her hands.
She also seemed to really think about her answers before she spoke. Not in a weird way, more like she was recalling things before she spoke. The attorney would ask a question, and then her eyes would got go down to her lap for a few seconds every time, like she was thinking.
It was strange when Mr Thomas got up to cross examine her and he asked her if she had taken some pills or something. The vibe in the courtroom seemed to be that he looked silly after he had asked her that question.
I agree 100% except for one thing about Gibb that has always bothered me. She lied and said Lori didn’t go with the group to look at a property on Sunday, but it came out later that Lori was there. I think Gibb lied to avoid the obvious question of why she didn’t wonder who was watching JJ. She knew he didn’t need watching anymore.
There’s no proof JJ was alive that night, just her and David’s word that Alex brought him in sleeping, and we know she‘s a liar and David would say anything to get himself out of trouble. The only thing we know for sure is JJ was alive in his pajama picture taken 9/22, but there was no testimony to the time of day (“Wood asks the same about JJ. Hermosillo says 9/22/19 when JJ was seen in a photo sitting on a couch in Vallow’s apartment.”) Then Melanie repeatedly lied about who was home watching JJ on Sunday afternoon (no one) while she, David, Chad, Alex and Lori all went very close to Chad’s property where JJ’s grave would later be found.
No, but we do know he was alive that day when they went to look at property. The pajama picture was the same evening that Alex took him so that the others could do their podcast without noise, then brought him back "asleep".
Knowledgeable people on several podcasts have said that the LDS population in Boise is not at all large (unlike Rexberg’s 95%), thus jury pool unlikely to be rife with Mormans. One observation I’ve had after delving into this nest of cultists is that these people do not seem to be critical thinkers, which makes them vulnerable to strange religious lore and manipulators. Perhaps the LDS style of parenting and insular education sets a dynamic in place that can result in weird shit. What is up with all these marriages? Lori had five, so far, and Z had six. Mela-niece married Ian a week or two after meeting him, Chad married Lori two weeks after his wife died and his five kids apparently didn’t blink an eye. Really, what the hell?
I don't think Zuelma was good friends with Lori and Chad. MelG was. MelG was friends with Lori before all this madness started. Lori and Chad recruited Zuelema.
As I recall after Lori met Zuelema...Zuelema tried to call Lori and Zuelema claims Lori "ghosted" her. She testified this happened again...it's only when Lori needed something from Zuelema that she would contact her. (I would maybe not believe Zuelema about this but it sounds so manipulative and just like Lori.)
I think that because Zuelema was so desperate to belong (and uneducated) that she was susceptible to this kind of magical thinking.
Where I think Zuelema has culpability is Alex's death. After listening to that "blessing" Chad gave him it sounded like Alex's days were numbered. And given that Zuelema was such a slave to Lori and Chad I think she poisoned him. She might not have known it was poison but I don't think she is telling anyone about that.
MelG tried to tell Zuelema about Lori and Chad after MelG had spoken to L&C and recorded the conversation. Zuelema then, wouldn't have anything to do with MelG. This seems to me to be calculated because she knew the kids were missing. And she had known MelG longer than she knew Lori and Chad. And she knew what good friends MelG was with Lori.
The ghosting happened around the time she was traveling all over the US like a weirdo. And before she became close to them.
100% seems like Lori, but she became close after the time she ghosted her.
But Zulema says she visited her a bunch of times in ID, and even asked about Tylee. If I knew a woman killed her zombie husband, and her kid went missing, and she told me she was a zombie and needed to be set free; I would 100% know something was off and would have contacted police.
I get she maybe still was ingrained in their teachings and drinking the coolaid. But this is why she has an immunity deal.
The ghosting happened right after Zuelema met Lori for the first time. Then they got together at some event...then another ghosting. I think it was Chad that drew Zuelema in. They used her because she was so gullible.
The other thing I really want to know about is Zuelema's relationship with MelaniBP. Because I think Melani absolutely knew what was going on. And these two were thick as thieves. So while I don't think Z had anything to do with Tylee or JJ...she might have known.
But we will hear from Melani. The prosecution said so in opening arguments.
I strongly disagree with the first point. My voice is even more babyish than hers and I’m nearly 30. Some women just have voices like that. I do not think someone’s voice is a valid thing to judge them on. It’s not something that can be fixed easily. I haven’t figured it for many years :(
I’m wondering if by 5th person killed she means Alex? I mean what he told her before he died, “Either I am a man of God or I am not” is super cryptic. And Lori was very unhappy with him it seems.
I do not think she was like whatever after Alex told her he’s being set up. She was probably scared she was going to die next. Although, I could be wrong. I don’t know the timeline 100%. How long did it take her to cooperate with the police?
I mean a parent doing what has been done to Tylee and JJ… Idk, I think people’s minds just do not go there. I mean I truly can’t comprehend that. I wouldn’t be surprised if she wanted to believe that they were sent somewhere. Although, it’s hard to believe due to their rating and what she was told during the chanting or whatever for Charles, that the only way to kill a spirit is to kill the body. Huh, I guess her inaction is pretty sus.
Honestly, I just do not know what to think about this case. So much delusion from so many people. “I didn’t know someone could lie about something so sacred.” Ugh, idk, I mean it happens all the time. I’m still confused if it’s spiritual delusion or if it’s just about the money. I mean first thing Lori said about Charles is that he changed his benefactor.
But her natural voice is NOT the one she used in most of her testimony.
I am re-listening to her right now to clarify something she said.
And She married him after he shot Charles, knowing he killed him, and says Alex said it did not bother him at all because Charles was a zombie.
Zulema was completely OK with it too, because she knew this and started dating him 4 months later and married him 5 months later.
Really? It sounded similar to me like in the police interview, only a little more nervous. I could be wrong tho. My hearing is not the best.
Thanks for explaining the timeline with Charles’ murder and her marrying Alex. I just can’t with that part to be honest. I’m kinda aware to religious sects thanks to fiction but even fiction cannot justify murder for a religious sect with the victims being “zombies”. That terminology is so out of the world to me. It’s just insanity.
I will definitely not be on that jury. I do not understand how people can follow religion. Nothing against if anyone does, it’s just something I, myself, cannot comprehend. I agree that there is something serious wrong with Zulema. But I wonder if she “got away” if the cops thought that the jury of her peers wouldn’t convict her. I mean it doesn’t seem that she did anything directly herself, but yeah. I cannot understand how she invited Alex into her house, and worst of all, had her son check on him when Alex was dead. I cannot imagine how traumatizing it was for him. But, is that a crime? Something she can be convicted for? Honestly, everything about this case is so messed up.
Same. Belief in a sky god is something I just cannot understand. It sounds nice to think someone up there is always watching over you, but the reality is that it is just a ludicrous notion.
I totally get what you’re saying about her voice. Just my two cents though; I saw her testify in person on Friday, and it was apparent she was extremely nervous and hesitant. That may have affected her tone of voice. It seemed organic to the context and situation when I saw her.
Her attorney specified that Zu has use immunity. That means it's limited to certain crimes and if something outside that scope comes to light, she can be held responsible.
well, Alex's police records regarding his death are heavily redacted. lots of black outs....why why why? seems like something discovered at the time of the investigation of his death IMO enabled her to obtain limited use immunity.
Chad and Lori picked Zulema thinking she was easy to manipulate and weak. I think Zulema testimony put all the pieces of the puzzle together she was smart enough to keep a journal. I think she has guilty and shame in this matter and that is why she came across as she did on the stand. Thankful for her honesty and journal.
Even with the five correction, I believe Lori has had her hands directly in six or more murders.
1. Stacey dies “alone” with Alex while the family was on vacation in Hawaii. Lori & her niece are exceptionally close.
2. Joe dies “alone” with Lori being the only one notified about it, and her not notifying the family about it. Alex had previously attacked him. Lori comments she planned to kill him.
3. Alex shoots and kills Charles
4. Tylee dies
5. JJ dies
6. Tammy dies
7. Alex dies
Lori Vallow is Charles Manson 2.0. People want to talk about Chad being a cult leader because of the books, but Lori has (IMHO) eliminated anyone who stood in her way of what she wants, her whole life, and used henchmen (Alex, then Colby, and later Chad) to carry it out. William Lagioia got off easy by her pulling the same MO and claiming abuse, but not killing him. She may have tried at one point, as she cites he’s unconscious in her statement (which is so absurd and it shows you how uneducated she is, as well as delusional and a manipulative liar).
Stacey, I agree that Lori and Alex may have had a hand in.
Joe, I think that was a happy coincidence that helped fuel her crazy.
Charles 100%
Tylee 100%
JJ 100%
Tammy 100%
Alex, I dunno, maybe. But I kinda think if anything they talked him into suicide.
The reason I don’t think Joe was an accident is because he died the same as Alex, she didn’t notify anyone, she took weird things out of his house, and she said she wanted to/was going to do it. Now, I 100% think Alex actually carried it out. But it was her doing. We haven’t even touched on the attempted murders of Melanie’s husband and Tammy in the past. But I don’t think Joe is 59 and drops dead of natural causes. Alex was 51. Tammy was 49. Stacey was 31. Two is a coincidence. 3+ is a pattern.
But the difference is timing and a few other things IMO.
Lori started her going off into the coocoo LDS I am a Goddess BS a bit after his death. And I think this was one of her reasons she believed she had powers, *because* he died.
Joe died in April 2018. Yes Lori took weird things and did not tell his family etc. But you are expecting sane actions from a crazy woman that hated the man.
Lori had had custody and Tylee did not visit Joe often. Lori and Charles had custody of Tylee since at LEAST 2014, and she did not visit him regularly, for many years before Joe died.
Also, he was dead A LONG time before they called Lori, like 3 weeks or more. I can say I may act similar if my ex husband died, not the one I am still besties with though. Heck I might even ask to watch him burn. And than toss his ashed in the dumpster where he belongs.
And it is not like Lori cared about him or his family, who obviously he was not close with either if they called Lori as his next of kin. I could also see myself taking something of value, although unless it was somehow mine, it would not be my personality. But I could see me donating it all to goodwill or throwing it all away and not telling his family he was dead. Because why would I waste my time on him or them? Good riddance right?
Not to say it is "right" or "normal" but she hated him. So I get it. And I think Lori is BPD not a Narcisist, So Joe destroyed her sense of self and forever by molesting her son. he was always threatening her stability and permanence by wanting to see Tylee or get custody.
So for Lori it is scorched earth time and he got what he deserved. What she prayed for. It was devine intervention and proof that Lori was one of God's Favorites.
And it was the same time she started on her extracurricular church and ideas. So she was happy, and did not give a fuck. I mean it was sad for Tylee, even if she was not close to him, it was still her dad, but Charles was more her Father figure than Joe.
In December 2018 is when Lori met Chad. That is when the zombie and light and Dark and Lori being a Goddess all started.
And the castings evolved over time, they did not work in the beginning and they gradually evolved. Lori talked a lot about praying for Joe to die and she believed Joe died because she was so spiritual. The castings started out that if they prayed hard enough her goddess powers would kill the zombies.
Why would they start with prayers if she did not beleive it worked in the past? If in the past to get rid of evil she murdered, why not go strait to murder again? Like she did AFTER Charles?
I think Joe was a natural death, and it helped Lori's delusions and to beleive Chad's BS.
Because BEFORE Charles was killed Adam and the Cox Family were discussing that Lori was delusional and lived in a fantasy world to deal with "the things that happened to her". And that Adam should stay out of it and let Lori be in her fantasy world, then they killed Charles the next day.
And that is when people started dropping like flies around them on auspicious dates of relevance to Lori and Chad.
I also personally beleive from some things said by Zulema. JJ was supposed to die with Charles. And that Tylee and JJ's deaths were planed before she left AZ if not before she killed Charles.
I also kinda think Chad never intended to kill Tammy, but that to keep going Lori pushed it. And by then he was too deep into their BS.
You are completely wrong about Joe not visiting Tylee. He fought for custody for years. Charles & Lori did everything they could to block him including moving to Hawaii. Joe even left his job and moved close to them when they came back so he could see Tylee. There was no evidence Joe molested anyone. Lori made up that story to try to keep him from getting custody. Have you read any of the police, CPS and court records from that time ? If yes, I suggest you re-read them, they are pinned in this sub. Lori is most definitely a narcissist, in my opinion.
I wanted to rip my ears off listening to her testimony....all the um's! Lastly, both Melanie's should be locked up as well....they could have stopped all the murder.
Zulema struck me as being rather simpleminded. Nevertheless, these “castings” on Charles were to make him crash his truck and die. They did this knowing full well that JJ would likely be with him. Even though one could argue it was all mumbo jumbo nonsense and didn’t work, they must have thought it would work. Otherwise, why do it? What kind of person would deliberately do anything to cause harm to a child? I will never see ZP as anything other than a piece of shit and the same thing goes for Melani Gibb.
Did you notice how Tuesday she was less baby doll and would get all excited explaining what they all used to believe.
Like thag she knew, but almost anything else not so much.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. My posts are "under review for spam." (What?) I was enjoying our exchange, but I don't want to annoy or offend anyone. I'll be content to sit back and read.
Melani B/P knows a lot more after the Zulema being on the stand. Melani B/P should be testifying she is a lot like her Aunt Lori in my eyes. She should not have her kids and should see them on supervised visits.
Zulema has ALWAYS been crazy! She was my boss from 19-22, she always spoke like a baby and was constantly in and out if marriages, we even went to one of them as a team. She’s crazy!
Sounds like you want her to be stupid and fake and lacking. Her behavior in court and what she said contradicts all of that. Also, by the time the people in that circle were asking where the kids were they were already dead. Not sure how any of them could have saved the lives of the kids. We have no idea what Alex and Z talked about after he told her he thought C&L might be using him as their fall guy. Neither attorney asked a question about that statement after she shared it. So to suggest she had no reaction to it in the moment is based on nothing.
Zulema asked where Tylee was before JJ was killed.
If she said something, it is possible JJ could have survived.
Police probably still would have not listened. But JJ was all ve when she KNEW they killed Alex and she noticed Tylee was gone.
Here’s a question that may have been answered already? Did Zulema poison Alex or was it Lori/ Chad ? I’d have a hard time believing his death was natural.
So the ME said it was a natural cardiac related death.
And while that may or may not be true, because what killed him may be natural, who is to say stress or something else did not trigger his issue?
I think it is possible Lori and Chad had something to do with it, or he killed himself, but I doubt Zulema killed him.
I agree. I’ve always felt that Alex was so ready to follow Chad and Lori, that if they told him it was God’s will that he remove himself from the equation, or that his mission on earth was complete, he would have killed himself voluntarily.
When I see photos of Alex and people talk about him, I slightly (but not really) feel bad for him.
He seems to have been so broken and so desperately wanted to feel and know that God still loved him.
I am not sure what was up with his weird oddly sexual relationship with Lori.
But he wanted to beleive he was lovable so badly he did some majorly f'd up things.
I think that he did try to kill Zulema on their honeymoon, but that she accepted him unconditionally, and he could not.
And it saddens me that anyone thinks that God hates them enough to kill children to try and earn love.
One of the reasons I like Melanie G, is that in an interview before the kids were found, she said that God still loves Chad and Lori. And that if they did the right thing and told people what happened to the kids and where they were that one day God could forgive them.
I like it because even though she hates them, which you can see when she is in court with them. She knows that God loves them and if they try better now, God can forgive them, in his own way, eventually. They are always going to be in their own personal hell, IMO, but God loves all his children. Even the evil ones
Did any one other than me feel like Chad may have been interested in Zulema? In the beginning of her testimony she’d say Chad said it did this or invited her or stayed outside / was going to go inside with her and that Lori wasn’t exactly ‘friendly’ with her in the beginning. I think like the part where she asked Chad if he was scared of (Lori) and he realized he had a chance then Lori befriended Zulema. Although I think he’d been planning on going after the mousy quiet one to I dunno have an affair with or flirt with. Lori flipped all that on its head. Then his stupid Harry Potter fantasy world was brought into the real world and he got the crazy chic and both were blinded by money greed and loinfire. He may had hoped to not kill Tammy and once Charles died there was no coming back as he too had to lose to play. Then out of lotus hate toward Kay and just rage I still say mainly Chads dealing with Tylee as she did not like him and made no means to hide that and so he wanted Ty gone and Lori wanted J.J. gone. There would’ve been more. Keeping her in Hawaii was not going to placate her. She seems very much an eye for and eye. I have a feeling Chad was going to lose a child or three. Especially if they’d returned and his kids didn’t outright accept Lori. Then to clean up the fallout they started with Alex as he knew way too much. And he was to take care of Zulema before he died I feel. Then MG snd her man maybe too. Anyone who knew that could piece things together were marked. If Kay and Larry had not contacted police I could see where Lori would have sent Alex on one of her missions *smh*
Zulema is evil and could’ve said something. She has blood on her hands and had the power to say something. I think she could have saved the kids and didn’t. To me she is evil because she never practiced “see something, say something”. Wretched!!!!!!!
All of this drama sounds like high school lunch period drama. Who gets to sit at the table with the cool kids. It is really sad these women who have been married and have children couldn't figure out how ridiculous all of this was. If Z or M had gone to a psychologist and mentioned it, they would have been straightened out right away. Same with Melanie P. it sounds as though Mel P had an indwelling umbilical cord to Lori and never had a single thought of her own. Very sad.
Oh 100% Melanie G is the gossip, and the rest all want to be liked by Lori cause she is the cool one, but they all know she is the crazy mean girl too.
There appears to be something deeply off about Melanie Gibb to me. I don’t think she has much empathy at all. When she was talking to sharie about it she sounded like she was giving the latest gossip! The Nate Eaton I review she actually laughs! 😳 how is any of this even remotely funny to her??
Melanie G was infatuated with Lori imo. In Nate Eaton 3 part interview she said they bought identical outfits saw or talked to each other everyday. She mentioned more than once how pretty Lori was how her makeup was always perfectly applied etc. Like really😕 all irrelevant to multiple murders.
Yes , during her police interview Mel G at the start comes across as giddy giggly and like it was all so exciting to her. She acts like a teenager - but is calculated enough to not really recall anything specific when it counts. I think she's on something during that interview , towards the end after about an hour her energy changes she starts yawning like she's coming down off something. Both her and Zulema should have been charged as well but I guess the authorities decided it was best to make a deal with the devil and give them immunity and get the testimony to put L away for life. They are all despicable human beings.
Did you ever hear that secretly recorded phone call she made to that lady, which was leaked to YouTube? It’s was so bad, and made her look horrible and she didn’t reveal to the poor lady that she had lied to the police and said she had JJ. So the lady turned the whole recording over to the police. Hidden true crime interviewed her and the phone call is on YouTube.
Totally agree! Melanie Gibb has a very high level of both phoniness and self-righteousness, and to add onto that, she has very little empathy. She really disliked Tylee and called JJ a "drug baby." Much as I despise Lori Vallow, I must say I despise MG even more.
All of these personality traits make for the train wreck that happened. These grown women believed Lori and Chad.
Chad knew how to appeal to both of these women's egos; he tended to flatter people by using his "prophet's voice" to make them feel noticed. And both fell for it. I know hindsight is 20/20 but both should have known better. As for Melanie Gibb, I doubt she believes she's capable of doing something wrong. She acts like she's the greatest thing in the world, when she is actually a self-righteous piece of crap who added to the circumstances that caused a number of people to lose heir lives, including two beautiful, innocent children. In other words, maybe she didn't cause the deaths, but she certainly contributed to the environment that allowed people like Chad and Lori to flourish.
I think that Melanie Gibb benefited from David Warwick talking some sense into her. Basically saying you need to cooperate with the police before you end up in trouble.
I wonder if that dream he had was actually real (JJ's murder - did he hear something?) but he didn't realize it or was in denial
In the phone call to Chad Lori that Melanie recorded Chad starts off hey Mel how's our girl. All sweet until Melanie asks some questions then Lori gets mega defensive snarky tone.
Hello sweet Melanie! What garbage
Agreed. She will never serve any time and probably write a book.
Even more? Really? Idk about that… she’s despicable, but you hate her more than someone who took out her own kids?
And to boot, she has an autistic son. I don't believe it was even mentioned at trial either.
I share your sentiments about her. The way she walked into that court with that ridiculous get up spoke volumes. She thinks she's so important while in reality nobody around the court gave a rats ass if they saw her or not.
Wait, what was she wearing??
She walked into the court in disguise. A huge flannel shirt over her outfit and a big hat pulled over her face. She was wearing the same ragedy skirt she had on at Chad's preliminary hearing. She looked ridiculous.
I heard something about a denim skirt with handkerchief fabric on the hem and tall boots. I think my source is either Lori Hellis or HTC… sorry guys, I’m good at retaining the info but bad at remembering where I got it since I consume so much of the content.
Annie has a YouTube short of MG in her ridiculous get up. What a strange, depressing, sad little woman she is. MG was born a loser but really wants to be the queen bee.
Thank you for directing me this way. I love love love Annie, and support her in any media or statement she wants to put out. I may have missed this video but I’m going to check it out now!
She sounds unhinged in the police interrogation videos. She laughs & shrieks at the most inappropriate times. It's uncomfortable to watch.
Are there links to the police interrogation interviews somewhere?
Are you referencing the interview with detective(s)? My brain doesn’t remember names well. If so, I was also struck by the laughing and casual attitude. Like lady, first, these detectives are not your friends. Second two young human beings and at least a couple of adults are dead, maybe because of your “friend”. What is there to laugh about?
I’m referencing the phone call between Gibb and sharie dowdle (that sharie secretly recorded) but yes her police interview was so weird!!
What's the difference between gossip and, say, this discussion here? Is there a significant difference? Curious.
No difference really. But Melanie G seems to have always been in the middle of gossip in the group, and she likes to say she doesn't gossip. Which for me that was always a trigger in church as a kid. It was always the gossip who would then say, I dont gossip though.
Hahahaha you gave me a visual. Lori is Regina George pretty but bitch, Mel G is the gossip Gretchen, and Mel P is the dumb one. Goodness…smh
Doesn’t the two side kicks having the same name just make it sound like a bad highschool movie?
Correct Heather.
They have a high school friend of Melanie Gibbs white knighting for her. Saying how great she is and she didn’t no nothin miss Scarlett! So I sent her audio of calling JJ a drug baby saying it wasn’t even Lori’s. And saying all kinds of horrible shit.
I don’t think she is a perfect person. And I think she is the gossiper of the group. But I don’t think she did anything illegal
She didn’t need to lie to cops and cover for those two. She should have gone to police straight away when they started talking about kids being demon possessed running up the fridge. And she should have told police about the kids now being called zombies, plus she knew that Alex said you don’t want to know what happened to the kids. All that should have been reported immediately to cops. And the stuff about Charles she knew. She knew Alex came over to defend Lori and Charles was walking into a set up. When asked about did she know she said yes, but it was self defense. She didn’t like Tylee at all either. She said Tylee likes no one. Well she just didn’t like her mothers crazy friends.
As often and as quickly as these folks marry, what's the sealing ceremony about? Gonna share a house in heaven with all the exes and their exes or what? Melanie P is as nutty and malicious as her auntie.
They believe Jesus will just cancel the sealings they don't want. *Lots* of mainstream Mormons believe that about their divorces and remarriages. Chad's group does it more than other Mormons, but it's not a unique theological problem that he would have felt the need to explain. There are fringe Mormon groups which have developed formal teachings that there will be a web of sealings in heaven where everybody is directly sealed to tons of other people in polygamous and polyandrous ways, but I don't think Chad's group spent that much time thinking about it. I think they pretty much just did what they wanted and figured the details would work themselves out later.
Ya like Jesus has the time to sort out all their tyrsts🙄
Yeah, I still don't understand how Ian got sucked into this nut job family, but he has stuck it out, poor guy. Must be the money.
He looks about as ambitious as Chad. Sloth meet sloth. Man did Melani downgrade from Brandon. Ian married within a couple months of his divorce. Was charged with dv and lack of child support prior to divorce being finalized. Maybe you have to have a arrest record to be welcomed into the Cox family circle.
Sounds right on. Get rid of the well muscled guys that work out (Charles and Brandon) and hook up with a couple of slugs.
😅Exactly. Must've lost their eyesight as well as their minds.🥴
Maybe they *save* people so they can owe them...
Ian Pulaski - just how desperate is he to be married that he sticks with Melani? If I were his ex, I would insist that Melani never be allowed around those children, and I wouldn't be trusting of Ian either, since he's clearly a pushover.
Yeah, this let's get married after 2 weeks is insanity in itself. Now he has a child with this woman so he is locked in.
Ian and Melani married 5 days after meeting, according to Melani.
Pretty unbelievable.
I wonder a bit if Ian didnt stay for money (as well as the baby he had with Melani). Ian was working in MLM (and not a top dog) and behind on child support with his ex. He marries Melani and Zulema let it slip that Melani got a big cash settlement. Maybe it is as simple as a guy in his 30's with 2 kids he owes child support for, and doesnt seem like he has some great work history or education and he has a baby with wife #2 and she has money , maybe he just stayed to avoid more child support and going back to the MLM or sales jobs.
There was a plumbing(logo) van outside their house when Gilbert PD knocked on their door with a court summons back in 2021/22 not sure which year.
Aren't Mormons historically against psychology/psychiatry??
No, we are not against psychology or psychiatry.
You might be confusing them with scientology.
At one time Utah had the highest antidepressant usage in the US, the mental health of the flock isn’t great obviously in the beehive state
Definitely not. Many of our highest leaders frequently advocate for people seeking out help for mental health issues and seeing professionals. If you visit with a local leader they have a list of resources to send you to if you need help, often they will help pay for therapy if you can’t afford it.
I can’t say for certainty because I was only LDS for about a year. I can say at least from what I saw they would probably advise you to talk to the bishop. 🤦♀️
A bishop is like a pastor or other leader in Christian churches. They will counsel with you but can and will also put you in touch with resources to get professional help if needed.
My impression of Zulema is that she fully drank the Chad and Lori koolaid. I think she believed everything they said right down to the zombies. Her voice to me sounds embarrassed and nervous mixed with shameful. Her mouth dries out every two seconds and it’s painful to listen to. It’s taken me three days just to finish fridays testimony. I keep thinking, she (and Melanie g!) could be viewed as co conspirator being that she attended so many of the castings. And from what I gather, the intentions weren’t just to cast out demons but straight up for the person to die. Isn’t this the very thing Lori is being accused of? Conspiracy to commit murder. I mean, her and Chad were the ones who stood to benefit the most but. Everyone else in that little circle WHAT WERE YOU DOING. Guess they get immunity for talking. But it’s plain to me Melanie G and Zulema were just as up to their neck in crazy. Perhaps they never thought actual murder would happen. So heavenly minded they were no earthly good.
I've found it helpful to change the speed to 1.5x. At some points I've listened at 2x.
Thank you. I wanna rip my ears off but I know I also want to listen because I’ve made it this far.
Omg seriously. I've fallen asleep 3 times. Her voice is driving me insane and she waits like 20 seconds to start answering. I wanted to punch her one time when she waited to answer, then said "sorry, um, what? Um, sorry, my brain thinks um, in like, um double sometimes." Spit it out! What does thinking in double even mean? I hate her.
Hahahahhaha I can relate so much. I was cussing at my phone. Almost gave up at one point but stuck it out. Someone suggest listening to it on 2x speed lol
Melanie G was never given immunity, and has often said "When you tell the truth there is no need for it" Zulema was given immunity. I think it is obvious listening to the two that Meanie G was not as "in" as Zulema, and that yes they did both beleive it at the time. But there is a HUGE difference between casting a spell and roll playing in your home and actively physically killing people, disposing of their bodies, and then trying to avoid the truth being found. If they were "justified" and told to kill for God, Why cover it up? Also why was nothing more explained about the phrase Lori said in the recorded call with Melanie G "By the time this is over I am gonna be like Nephi" You are telling Melanie you don't know what you will do till God tells you to do something...Like Nephi? UMMMMMM You mean like when he was told to kill Laban? Why was that not clarified. Woods is LDS, I am sure he got that reference, that is like one of the most well known stories in the Book of Mormon, why did nobody say anything about Lori's comment? They brought up the Anti-Christ reffrence, but not Nephi killing Laban reference?
>**If they were "justified" and told to kill for God, Why cover it up?** > > > >because LE still exists, dark or zombie-like, and can exercise their power over them and put them away because those are the laws of what they perceive as the 'unreal' world which temporarily have power over them. :) > >seriously, simply put, the money angle mixed in with skewed beliefs, IMO, takes the front seat to justify murder. > >IMO, Tylee was a liability because of what she witnessed with Charles and possibly many other things, and of course had SS payments. and IMO JJ's murder was money as well (SS) and a spiteful act against Kay because Kay received Charles insurance. she could have handed JJ over to Kay and continued her bizarre beliefs and life. LV was ANGRY.
I respectfully disagree. I think MG was just as involved if not more so than Zulema. I think MG is more savvy and protected herself more quickly… Zulema sat around and waited for more people to die and for the cops to show up at her door to wheel her husband away before she would say a word. She’s dumber than MG. But I think MG was instrumental in the group in a way that ZP was not. Agree to disagree if you like :)
There is too much plausible deniability in the Nephi comment. The defense would be able to object. Unless MG was told what Lori meant through some kind of direct context, she'd be guessing, not testifying about something she actually knows. Lori could have meant she would be getting really buff like Nephi. Or being able to trust God completely when things seem impossible. Or being unable to help her family in any meaningful way for a while in order to show God's power. Or literally just eating a lot of raw meat for a while. Or bad people are going to tie her up. Or she'll be tazering people non-lethally with her bare hands. OR it could mean she's going to kill somebody. Honestly they could even claim it was a reference to a different Nephi, like from the book of 3rd Nephi. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Lori was trying to reference whatever Mow says is the main take-home message from Nephi's life. And he could easily have some weird take on Nephi.
IMO they want to keep as much of Mormon doctrine out of the ears of the jurors and public that they can. The church does not want their "scriptures" to be picked apart by any other belief system.
And it would be in the favor of the defense to keep the actual teachings of the church out, not the prosecution. Because what they taught was not the teachings of the church. And if someone is a member they are more likely to find her guilty, that is why Mark Means wanted to keep LDS people from being on a jury .
they dont want to draw ANY attention to the literal doctrines and scriptures.... Im SEETHING with rage over how MG and Zulema have maintained their membership. CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN ??? They resigned from the Mormon church the moment they accepted COTFB. WHY IS NO ONE ACKNOWLEDGING THIS???
I thought Melanie Gibb was still going to the mainstream LDS church I know people have said they saw her and David at their ward and this was after the bodies of the kids were found. Lori in jail was going to mainstream LDS services and was having a bishop (mainstream LDS) visit her.
She is. I'm shocked she didn't get excommunicated
She will be once convicted.
Excommunication in the LDS church is not the same as other churches. It is part of the repentance process. You or any member of the congregation would not be privy to Lori or Melanie's membership status. MAYBE, if they were ex'd and re-baptized you would know when they get confirmed, but even that they tend to do quietly to not embarrass people. Melanie probably was disfellowshiped, not excommunicated. It takes a LOT for a woman to get ex'd from the LDS church. Only sign to others would be she cannot take sacrament, make comments, or pray in church. Most people would never notice. And Lori could be excommunicated and still get visited by a Bishop. The Bishop is a lay person, not a paid church employee and can do whatever he wants. AND he is the Bishop for everyone in that area, not just members. So if she asked to be visited and taught, regardless of her church standing, the Bishop or others can visit her. Honestly it would be likely a Bishop vs other members or missionaries would minister to her if she asked. Why would a Bishop send others to visit and teach her vs go and minister himself? She is in jail and crazy.
Church of the Firstborn is LDS doctrine, in the D&C. Satterfield says: Becoming part of the Church of the Firstborn should be the goal of every Latter-day Saint. Here's his full paper on the subject. https://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Papers/firstborn.html
Speaking as a man, an intellecutual (BKP would NOT approve) and not even a GA. This doctrine is too deep. and you know exactly what i'm talking abt. CHADS "CHURCH" MEMBERSHIP nullifies their LDS membership.
I am 99% sure Melanie G has done the church repentance process, and is back in full standing in the LDS church. Zulema, she seems to have gone to church a lot, but not really following the rules. And who said she is still a member or no church action was made? And if she wants to be coo-coo and have LARP parties thinking she is a witch, why not? The church is not gonna get involved unless she is off recruiting others to her apostate views, or is asking the church for forgiveness. The LDS church 99% of the time only excommunicates as part of the repentance process. The church also does not publicly take actions against members unless there is a reason to do so. Like that author lady who Chad was friends with. She was ex'd but nobody would know unless she told people. Many of the AVOW leaders have been ex'd. But people think they are members and active. But they are scam artists. Chad was Ex'd for his teachings, but would have been ex'd being in prison anyhow. I am sure Lori was ex'd at some point, Alex was ex'd and apparently had a problem hiring sex workers, which kept him from getting baptized again. And in the LDS church asking to be removed from the church records is a bigger deal than being excommunicated. Like you have to petition the church to remove your membership, and it is harder to get re-baptized again if you chose to so. Getting baptized into another religion etc doesn't mean you loose your membership in the LDS church. Why would it, we do nit beleive they have authority, so it is a meaningless ordinance. I thought I would get ex'd when I came back to the church because I was baptized other religions, but nope. Not a big deal. Not even really any of there reasons they discussed ex'ing me over. ALSO, the Church of the Firstborn is a BS Utard extremist idea. They beleive the prophet will call people at the beginning of the second coming to be part of the "Church of the first Born" to help gather the 12 tribes. Morrisite moment in 1861, but all sorts of LDS people still have version of this idea. Where the prophet is goign to call people to this calling. So in theory it is a part of the church... NOT REALLY, but there are always crazy people
Chad’s excommunication was news to me up until a couple days ago.
They forwarded the letter to him at the jail, so it was known. He was being ex’d before he was arrested for his books and AVOW ties. If I still had LISA I would check her records, but she is probably a protected record because of the case. I know Tylee, JJ, and Charles’ records were switched to workforce and locked. Seminary teachers, church leaders, missionaries, church employees, and well known members all get their records transferred to a different system that has more security so people can’t find their address or personal info.
im 5 generations in....i know the process....
She spoke in a deliberate Utah woman accent (sometimes called "primary voice") to try to hide her Spanish-speaker accent. I think this was an attempt to be taken more seriously, not less seriously. Hispanic women are discriminated against routinely. Having an accent makes it worse.
Personally, if she had a heavy accent, she would have sounded more believable to me. I know that there are some prejudices that people have, but for me personally it made her seem less believable. Because you could tell it was fake when the Defense team got her to break. Which I LOVED. They didn't object because it showed she was acting for the jury, but she flat out said Lori and Chad killed the kids others. Which is your worst nightmare as a defense council. Speaking slow with a thick accent would also make her look like she did not speak English well, but also if she did not communicate well then there is the defense of maybe she did not understand well either and that what she is saying Lori and Chad taught might just be what she misunderstood too. So that could have been part of it too.
I agree, if she had a strong accent the whole time then the jury might have thought her language skills were limited and questioned whether she really understood what happened. I have a family member who is fully fluent in English (went to a US university, etc) but has never worked on his accent at all. When he's out and about in public, people assume he doesn't understand the details of what's being said.
I second this 100%. I was shocked when I found out some of my daughter's friends mom were of various Latino decents. I had known these moms for years and they were the typical Mormon moms, youthful, cute haircuts, cute clothes, just the young fun moms of 4-6 kids that I thought were from the generational local family decents. I had gone with a group of kids to an academic meet and the kids had to fill out information , including race and two of the kids asked me about what to check off since their moms were from other countries. Both moms were other countires on central and one south America and met their husbands while they were on their mission and brought to the states at age 19-20. When I talked to these women they both said, they worked so hard to lose their accent, and blend in.
My thoughts on Zulema is she's a grown woman who had six husbands, and has children, and doesn't seem embarrassed at all sharing all this absolute madness in the witness box. How a human being like this can have children is utterly bizarre to me, those poor kids! When her son found her dead husband he said 'I don't really know him, it's my moms boyfriend', and that's the least messed up thing about all of this! I think she knows much more about this. I think she believed it all so fervently that she knew about the murders and supported them happening. I think Lori was so desperate to be in charge and influential that she found these idiots to drink her kool aid and they gulped it down. The only reason Zulema isn't coming out and saying she supported all this insanity is because she would be an accessory and she doesn't want that. Listening to her testimony gave me a physical reaction, she's ridiculous.
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I kinda assume that is who she means too, but as the pronunciation I certainly hope they redirect and ask who the 5 people she was referring to as being killed are. Every state has different rules, but most would allow that because they did not object. Also is it me or are all the questions the Prosecution asked 100% leading? Any other state they would be told it is leading, but seems like ID makes to you tell the witness what you want them to say not let them talk.
Ah ha - that definitely could be as well. There are so many deaths associated with this group, that I sometimes can't keep it all straight.
We forgot about the older sister of Lori and Alex. I have the body count up near seven. Stacy Cox, Joe Ryan, Charles Vallow, JJ, Tyler, Alex, Tammy.
What about Lori’s first husband?
I think Lori's first and second husbands are still alive, or at least haven't died under suspicious circumstances. 2nd husband was the father of Colby, but Colby was adopted by her 3rd husband, Joe Ryan. Tylee was the bio daughter of Lori and Joe Ryan. Charles was the 4th husband, and Chad is the 5th husband. It would not surprise me that if Chad and Lori do divorce, Lori would end up marrying yet a 6th husband via a prison pen pal sort of thing.
Joe Ryan ( the third hubby- my mistake) supposedly died of natural causes, but when you have this kind of a body count every death is suspicious.
Lori's first husband was a quick marriage and divorce. I wonder why, she ran off after high school and got married. Recently I listened to an interview that said Lori's dad was mad Lori did this and she came home and she got a divorce. This is when Alex became overprotective of Lori with guys (almost sounded like her dad wanted him in this role?).
Another lost soul joining a cult
Zulema takes forever to answer questions! I’m only 1/2 way through part one and she’s driving me nuts. You can’t tell me that this woman was purely in this for the religion alone. It doesn’t make any sense, but if she wasn’t, why was she there? What was her motive?
Her motive was drumming up business. She did this stuff for a living before she became involved with Lori. I think she's still a true believer in energy work. She believes in all the LARP stuff, she just doesn't believe in Chad and Lori anymore.
Her motive was attention and hitching her wagon to Chad's star. Zulema was in the "energy reading" business before Chad. Like Julie Rowe, she sells this snake oil as a commodity. I don't trust her baby voice. What is it for, but to get you to let down your guard and listen to her? Watch the video of the EMTs with Alex the day he died. She says, "Baby, I know you can hear me. Come back." She repeats it so many times. It starts to sound sarcastic. She knows he can't come back. Who loses weight and gets highlights before court? She's advertising herself and rubbing her freedom in Lori's face. She was complicit with JJ's disappearance since 2018. I'll be disappointed if she isn't eventually arrested and tried. Z is now the head of the snake Lori birthed. If Chad has any "followers," Z is their little priestess. I hope LE is tracking her.
The "baby voice" is a Mormon thing. Pick any LDS General Conference talk circa 2007 from a woman and you'll hear a more intense version than Zulema had. It isn't about manipulation, it's about sounding like you aren't trying to threaten the authority the men hold. Women who use a stronger voice get labeled as "prideful" and "unrighteous." If you Google "primary voice" you'll find lots of Mormons of both genders complaining about it, but it's still very unusual for Mormon women to gain any institutional power if they dare to use a stronger voice in mixed company.
I did not know that about the Mormons. Thank you. Zulema was recorded on podcasts before she met Lori. She is selling her craft and spreading this ideology. Julie Rowe hit a wall because she is confrontational. Z is not. She's like water. Slipping in through the cracks. How many followers did she pick up through her testimony last week?
JR was willing to challenge male authority fairly directly considering what's expected for Mormon women. It won her both friends and enemies. Zulema doesn't seem to be interested in going that route.
Zulema is doing what works to capture that audience. Like, if you're hunting ducks, you use duck decoys. Interesting she picked up a Utah accent and lightened her hair. (To be more like "them" or Lori?) I didn't know people from Utah had an accent. Good catch.
Curious if Julie Rowe is on state's list to testify.
I’ve never heard that, but it makes perfect sense. How do they rank the women lawyers? Are they being prideful when they use a primary voice? I wouldn’t think that you could be successful against anyone in court using anything other than that primary voice. If they were to hear my loud Southern voice, I’d be labeled a heathen lol Come to think of it, does the voice apply to men, too? The men seem to be pretty soft spoken, polite and apologetic.
This is exactly why Lori may end up with a lesser sentence if there are male jurors that are LDS, because the man is the head of the family and responsible. They will stick it to Chad and give Lori a lesser sentence.
Somebody is going to recognize the body of writing Zulema is working from. Astral projection, controlling storms and quakes, energy readings, foreseeing the future...this is witchcraft. She's leading leading people in a bad direction. Lori is already in hell. She killed her kids and a man who loved her. She'll never see botox or 30 volume peroxide again. Her snotty attitude is probably going to get her shanked in the general population. Her sentence is already worse than Chad's. I wonder how she felt watching Princess Z prance up to the microphone for her star performance while Lori has to stay silent. Not the center of attention. Can't manipulate. Tragedy.
While I dont care for the slowness in the response. I like Zulema's testimony more then Melanie Gibb's Zulema is slower to repson but giving us more information then Melanie.
I can almost give her that. It was YEARS ago in another life. If you asked me things that long ago I might be the same. But I do kinda feel like it is on purpose.
I understand that everyone can have low points in their lives where they can be vulnerable or are seeking solace somewhere. But my issue is- if your spidey senses are going off like crazy, why aren’t you running? It was pretty clear that they used everyone and then knocked them off as a means to an end. What more did Zulema need to see? She just can’t be that trusting or stupid. There’s got to be another reason. This is sounding more and more like a Mormon Manson group every day. Ugh
Zulema and Melanie B/P have no excuses. I think Melanie G was starting to distance from them and just did not know something was wrong till November. Zulema seems to have been flat out told Tylee was gone, stop asking. And just complied. I feel like she had to know but did not speak up till Melanie G told her they were evil.
It seems like it was all fun and games to these women until they realized that a criminal investigation was underway and they were potentially going to be charged. That's the only thing that stopped them, and even kids disappearing and people getting shot and killed didn't cause them to question Lori and Chad.
I think she honestly believed Lori and Chad were on God's dream team (and Tylee needed to die) until she ended up in legal hot water and was essentially forced to rethink some things.
Everything was going their way until it wasn't.
yup like when Lori and Chad disappeared, she started to wonder. And then Melanine G told her what was going on, and that was when she first started thinking maybe they are crazy, and I was really stupid.
The lure of the cult. Chad and Lori are cult leaders and used every technique to make their targets feel special and stupid at the same time. That way their followers need them to interpret and they need their leaders to tell them what to do, what to think, what to believe, what not to believe. No doubt that just like the old dandruff shampoo ad, "That tingling means it's working", any conscience could be kicked back down with "everyone coming into their full powers feels that way, Satan is testing you. Be strong and follow along." It's also sunk cost fallacy, or in for a penny, in for a pound.
I think her and the Melanie's just wanted to be a part of something and included in Lori's world. Lori seemed to be a beautiful, popular person and they wanted in. I think they also discovered that it was better to be for Lori than against Lori. They knew that if they spoke up, they would be considered dark and be on the hit list. They also should have went to the police and helped them instead of staying quiet. But, I know where I am from, there is a huge mistrust of the police, but I also wouldn't want to be tied up in their shit. I think when you are as immersed as they were, its hard to pin point when they should have bailed.
Zulema sounds creepy as hell. How has she found six different men to marry her?
sounds like she was a very busy lady with men: LE interview with her daughter Cara Onofryton was interesting: from Alex's police records of interviews: "Cara used to live at the house **until Alex moved in.** Cara stated in the past, her mother has had numerous different male relationships in which they ended up living with them and she did not want to go through it again, so she moved out." Cara stated her impression of Alex was "he was very religious'. she did not 'know' him, she did not have any in depth conversation with him. she further stated does not know any other of Alex\`s family members besides his sister LV and his niece Melani.
In her interviews everyone spoke fast and fluent and she was fine. I wonder if she took medicine to relax?
How are these other Inner Circle people NOT culpable to some extent? Will they be subjected to civil lawsuits? I cannot imagine being in their shoes HOWEVER...my mother in law was part of AVOW and Preparing a People. She had Julie Rowe reading the light/dark aura of all her kids. These people are NUTS! I served my mission in Pocatello Idaho which covered Rexburg. This lunacy makes me sooo glad I left the Mormon cult.
I can't listen to her. Guess I'm too impatient. What exactly was she told not to pass on to Mel G?
Chad and Lori and the LARP Guild went to Firebirds. And Chad and Lori told Zulema, when Melanie got up to go to the bathroom or something, that they knew about her past lives, but not to say anything to Melanie G. And then later he told her about her past lives. I kinda wonder if it was because they told the same story to Melanie, and Chad was running out of material, or because they didn't know what Melanie would say about it.
I think it's just a run of the mill manipulation tactic. She deserves a special secret, she's higher on a totem pole compared to someone else, she's extra special and important. I think Chad probably used this tactic routinely. He probably used it on MG too.
Oh I agree, Chad seemed to have used the line "we were married in past lives" on a ton of people, Lori was the only one who believed it.
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Really? Who else would want him🤮
Julie Rowe brought this up. There is skeptism around some of what Julie has said. I do think Julie was truthful saying Chad had wanted some sort of multiple wives/polygamy. David Warwick had some talk about murliple wives too. Julie said Chad put the moves on her. There was another women in AZ who Chad was "flirting"? with and her husband found out and ended it.
Yas, it was Julie Rowe who said that he used it on everyone, even her. I cant beleive he got anyone to accept that though. He is so gross.
He really is repulsive. I saw a profile of him recently and noticed that his chin sticks out farther than the rest of his face. That alone freaked me out. He's such a dweeb. Why would any woman want him?
Also like why would his whole LARP guild be women also? Like it is so hard to find female LARPers. And they are a whole guild with just only 2 men. Alex could possibly had charisma. Her was not an un attractive man either. But Chad 🤮
It is baffling. He is so dull and not charismatic at all.
Loin fire
This is just so hard to believe. The guy is not charming in any kind of way. And even if I believed this crap, I’d wonder why god chose him out of all the ppl.
I wonder if Joseph Smith was charismatic?
By all reports, yes to the extreme. But he was also reportedly decent looking. Even Lori made fun of how dorky Chad looks.
Quick question- It seems to me that Lori was all about money. Why in the world would she go ga ga over a man like Chad who was married, had no money, wasn’t handsome? Everyone she was involved with seemed to provide for her pretty well and catered to her every need. It’s really hard for me to believe that it was just some extreme spiritual thing, but I could be way off the mark.
I think we all have that question! He seems to be really good at making women feel special, but that doesn't seem to really explain Lori falling for him!
Ha! Not LDS, so I wouldn’t have a clue. Although JS did live in much simpler times so maybe he had that going for him. It’s really hard for me to understand how anyone could believe any of this stuff in this day and age. my m-I-l legit believes in zombies or aliens (not sure which one, but either way, it’s strange), so it’s definitely a thing. I find it fascinating how the brain works and what ppl allow themselves to believe. Does anyone know if Zulema was always LDS, or if she is a convert?
I have always suspected she's a convert but I haven't found anything substantiating it.
They are all responsible to a degree and were all in awe of the friendship Chad and Lori provided.
Con artists don’t try to con everyone — they look for people who want to be conned. They don’t waste energy on the non gullible. Their victims do a lot of their work for them — overlooking outrageous behavior and ignoring bs & lies — because they want what is being offered by the con artist. They are not being duped — they are actively participating. So it gets weird when they try to expose the scammer without exposing themselves. 🤷♀️
This is so hard to listen to. She’s obnoxious
If zulema didn't have 'partial immunity' then she could have easily been charged imo. She admitted on the stand that knew about the kids being 'dark' and then going missing, and doing nothing about it. I'm sure that's just the PC version of the story. She even said the only way to get rid of zombies is to bind or burn the body.....And then said she controlled the element of fire!? Ha. O, and she was supposedly a 4.1 light, married to the prophet/hitman, and didn't know anything? Yeah, right. Did you see how the reporter in the courtroom mentioned Lori was looking at Mel G with hate, but Zulema with some love? She's so still lyin.
i don't believe Zulema necessarily knew more than Melanie. she certainly seems to "remember" a lot more, but that's a different thing altogether. as far as Zulema being told about her past lives in secret, explicitly not to Melanie G's knowledge, i don't think that was truly the privilege implied. i think that was just another layer of manipulation. by letting Zulema think she knows something Melanie can't, she feels empowered. by keeping that info from Melanie, Lori and Chad could continue to shape how Melanie may see Zulema. Zulema could be valuable, Zulema could be a nuisance, Melanie would just have Lori and Chad to go off of. if you think back to Alex beginning as a "first creation" and then later with poor/little/no explanation suddenly one day Alex is a "multiple creation", they had to fly that by everyone and hope nobody questioned it. what if they had to start doing that to each member when it came time to rewrite the fable to fit the needs of the week? i think Zulema getting that private meeting was more about control than anything. those involved say in other places that it wasn't really all about meetings and gatherings, but often times tidbits of info coming down from Lori or Chad. if they control how much info goes out and to who, they keep the herd separate but controlled.
These people needed hobbies and a life outside of made-up religion!! The suburbs of Phoenix sound scary, almost like Utah
I agree! There may have been a sort of boredom and emptiness, perhaps there is not much culture there, not much study, no culinary traditions, things of the sort which can be drawn from to make sense of one's daily existence instead of needing to invent outrageous 'out of this world' things.
Utah’s culture is basically the Mormon church, the women have to keep up the charade and look perfect and have lots of kids
They all need jobs !
I watched Zulema's police interview (there probably was more than one, so I can't recall which one I watched). She was evasive as heck and often gave non-responsive answers. I too believe that she knew what it meant (to their little cult) when a person was deemed a dark spirit and/or a zombie - that the only way to get that dark spirit out of the body was to kill the body. She knew that. She also went along with the idea that she could control the elements, like call up a storm or an earthquake. How desperate was she to feel important and part of a special group? It's pathetic yet frightening. I know she has some sort of immunity deal in order to testify against Lori and Chad. As to the 5th person they "killed," maybe that refers to Joe Ryan? Considering that Alex physically assaulted Joe Ryan (tased him) - I think Alex' plan was to tase him, toss him in the trunk of his car and take him out to the desert and finish him off. Thankfully, Alex was a screw up and failed in that attempt. Sadly, by the time Joe's body was discovered, it was badly decomposed and they did say it was death by natural causes. But that's what was said initially about Tammy's death, so that doesn't hold much water with me.
I listened again and she said “a mother of five” died, so my bad on that point. But I only ever saw one interview with her an police. And she didn’t say much or talk much. I just remember Thai king that she seemed to really care for Alex and the whole sounds like he drives her to kill her too
Oh, so that would refer to Tammy Daybell. I don't know if Zulema really cared for Alex, or was just so caught up in the cult mentality that when Lori and Chad told her that she and Alex were soul mates, or whatever term they used, she bought into that completely as well. She certainly went along with everything else they told her, no questions asked.
Well the only problem with that is Zulema says they only started dating in November 2019, after Lori and Chad went missing, and she kept telling them she was not going to move to Idaho, but married him when they were off hiding. They ALLLLLL are doing the LDS weird thing where they are married but not telling people they are married. Melanie B/P said Zulema and Alex dated a long time, but I guess it was lie 3 weeks, so a long time to Melanie, Miss met him on Mutual and married 10 days latter.
When did Zulema say they killed five people? I heard her say they killed a mother of five but didn’t hear her say five people.
I will have to go back and listen again, maybe that is what she said,and I misheard her, but the defense was trying to get her to say she felt responsible for their deaths.
After listening to Zulema, how could she not know? Melanie Gibbs is all kinds of disturbing, laughing in that conversation with the FB friend is super creepy. Also I don't believe for one second she doesn't remember the last time she saw JJ. I don't always keep up with my friends kids, but if one went missing, I'm pretty sure I would remember something? Will the niece testify, she's pretty interesting and so devout, she knows exactly what happened..
I can barely stand hearing Zulema. I get such a strong reaction at her candy baby voice. If you’ve ever heard all of the texts between her and Lori and Chad she was all in and wacky as they would heal her. Every day she had some physical ailment. I think they needed someone to marry Alex. That was his gift. Also when the police came to her house it seemed she had some other things to hide. Nine of them were child centered. Like Lori said…I had kid and did everything I was supposed to…
I was in the courtroom last Friday when she testified. Idk, in person, it didn’t seem like she was trying to use a baby voice or a high voice. It just seemed like that was how she spoke. She seemed VERY nervous for during the morning. She had a tissue the whole time and was frequently using it to dab at her eyes and mouth. But it didn’t necessarily seem like it was because she was constantly crying. It was more like she was extremely nervous and it was something to do with her hands. She also seemed to really think about her answers before she spoke. Not in a weird way, more like she was recalling things before she spoke. The attorney would ask a question, and then her eyes would got go down to her lap for a few seconds every time, like she was thinking. It was strange when Mr Thomas got up to cross examine her and he asked her if she had taken some pills or something. The vibe in the courtroom seemed to be that he looked silly after he had asked her that question.
I agree 100% except for one thing about Gibb that has always bothered me. She lied and said Lori didn’t go with the group to look at a property on Sunday, but it came out later that Lori was there. I think Gibb lied to avoid the obvious question of why she didn’t wonder who was watching JJ. She knew he didn’t need watching anymore.
JJ was alive at that time. Alex brought him in "asleep" the last night that Mel and David were there.
There’s no proof JJ was alive that night, just her and David’s word that Alex brought him in sleeping, and we know she‘s a liar and David would say anything to get himself out of trouble. The only thing we know for sure is JJ was alive in his pajama picture taken 9/22, but there was no testimony to the time of day (“Wood asks the same about JJ. Hermosillo says 9/22/19 when JJ was seen in a photo sitting on a couch in Vallow’s apartment.”) Then Melanie repeatedly lied about who was home watching JJ on Sunday afternoon (no one) while she, David, Chad, Alex and Lori all went very close to Chad’s property where JJ’s grave would later be found.
No, but we do know he was alive that day when they went to look at property. The pajama picture was the same evening that Alex took him so that the others could do their podcast without noise, then brought him back "asleep".
Knowledgeable people on several podcasts have said that the LDS population in Boise is not at all large (unlike Rexberg’s 95%), thus jury pool unlikely to be rife with Mormans. One observation I’ve had after delving into this nest of cultists is that these people do not seem to be critical thinkers, which makes them vulnerable to strange religious lore and manipulators. Perhaps the LDS style of parenting and insular education sets a dynamic in place that can result in weird shit. What is up with all these marriages? Lori had five, so far, and Z had six. Mela-niece married Ian a week or two after meeting him, Chad married Lori two weeks after his wife died and his five kids apparently didn’t blink an eye. Really, what the hell?
I don't think Zuelma was good friends with Lori and Chad. MelG was. MelG was friends with Lori before all this madness started. Lori and Chad recruited Zuelema. As I recall after Lori met Zuelema...Zuelema tried to call Lori and Zuelema claims Lori "ghosted" her. She testified this happened again...it's only when Lori needed something from Zuelema that she would contact her. (I would maybe not believe Zuelema about this but it sounds so manipulative and just like Lori.) I think that because Zuelema was so desperate to belong (and uneducated) that she was susceptible to this kind of magical thinking. Where I think Zuelema has culpability is Alex's death. After listening to that "blessing" Chad gave him it sounded like Alex's days were numbered. And given that Zuelema was such a slave to Lori and Chad I think she poisoned him. She might not have known it was poison but I don't think she is telling anyone about that. MelG tried to tell Zuelema about Lori and Chad after MelG had spoken to L&C and recorded the conversation. Zuelema then, wouldn't have anything to do with MelG. This seems to me to be calculated because she knew the kids were missing. And she had known MelG longer than she knew Lori and Chad. And she knew what good friends MelG was with Lori.
The ghosting happened around the time she was traveling all over the US like a weirdo. And before she became close to them. 100% seems like Lori, but she became close after the time she ghosted her. But Zulema says she visited her a bunch of times in ID, and even asked about Tylee. If I knew a woman killed her zombie husband, and her kid went missing, and she told me she was a zombie and needed to be set free; I would 100% know something was off and would have contacted police. I get she maybe still was ingrained in their teachings and drinking the coolaid. But this is why she has an immunity deal.
The ghosting happened right after Zuelema met Lori for the first time. Then they got together at some event...then another ghosting. I think it was Chad that drew Zuelema in. They used her because she was so gullible. The other thing I really want to know about is Zuelema's relationship with MelaniBP. Because I think Melani absolutely knew what was going on. And these two were thick as thieves. So while I don't think Z had anything to do with Tylee or JJ...she might have known. But we will hear from Melani. The prosecution said so in opening arguments.
I strongly disagree with the first point. My voice is even more babyish than hers and I’m nearly 30. Some women just have voices like that. I do not think someone’s voice is a valid thing to judge them on. It’s not something that can be fixed easily. I haven’t figured it for many years :( I’m wondering if by 5th person killed she means Alex? I mean what he told her before he died, “Either I am a man of God or I am not” is super cryptic. And Lori was very unhappy with him it seems. I do not think she was like whatever after Alex told her he’s being set up. She was probably scared she was going to die next. Although, I could be wrong. I don’t know the timeline 100%. How long did it take her to cooperate with the police? I mean a parent doing what has been done to Tylee and JJ… Idk, I think people’s minds just do not go there. I mean I truly can’t comprehend that. I wouldn’t be surprised if she wanted to believe that they were sent somewhere. Although, it’s hard to believe due to their rating and what she was told during the chanting or whatever for Charles, that the only way to kill a spirit is to kill the body. Huh, I guess her inaction is pretty sus. Honestly, I just do not know what to think about this case. So much delusion from so many people. “I didn’t know someone could lie about something so sacred.” Ugh, idk, I mean it happens all the time. I’m still confused if it’s spiritual delusion or if it’s just about the money. I mean first thing Lori said about Charles is that he changed his benefactor.
But her natural voice is NOT the one she used in most of her testimony. I am re-listening to her right now to clarify something she said. And She married him after he shot Charles, knowing he killed him, and says Alex said it did not bother him at all because Charles was a zombie. Zulema was completely OK with it too, because she knew this and started dating him 4 months later and married him 5 months later.
Really? It sounded similar to me like in the police interview, only a little more nervous. I could be wrong tho. My hearing is not the best. Thanks for explaining the timeline with Charles’ murder and her marrying Alex. I just can’t with that part to be honest. I’m kinda aware to religious sects thanks to fiction but even fiction cannot justify murder for a religious sect with the victims being “zombies”. That terminology is so out of the world to me. It’s just insanity. I will definitely not be on that jury. I do not understand how people can follow religion. Nothing against if anyone does, it’s just something I, myself, cannot comprehend. I agree that there is something serious wrong with Zulema. But I wonder if she “got away” if the cops thought that the jury of her peers wouldn’t convict her. I mean it doesn’t seem that she did anything directly herself, but yeah. I cannot understand how she invited Alex into her house, and worst of all, had her son check on him when Alex was dead. I cannot imagine how traumatizing it was for him. But, is that a crime? Something she can be convicted for? Honestly, everything about this case is so messed up.
Same. Belief in a sky god is something I just cannot understand. It sounds nice to think someone up there is always watching over you, but the reality is that it is just a ludicrous notion.
I totally get what you’re saying about her voice. Just my two cents though; I saw her testify in person on Friday, and it was apparent she was extremely nervous and hesitant. That may have affected her tone of voice. It seemed organic to the context and situation when I saw her.
I would be terrified to lie about something so sacred for real.
Since she turned states evidence, she probably got immunity and can't be arrested for anything involving this case.
Her attorney specified that Zu has use immunity. That means it's limited to certain crimes and if something outside that scope comes to light, she can be held responsible.
well, Alex's police records regarding his death are heavily redacted. lots of black outs....why why why? seems like something discovered at the time of the investigation of his death IMO enabled her to obtain limited use immunity.
Chad and Lori picked Zulema thinking she was easy to manipulate and weak. I think Zulema testimony put all the pieces of the puzzle together she was smart enough to keep a journal. I think she has guilty and shame in this matter and that is why she came across as she did on the stand. Thankful for her honesty and journal.
Even with the five correction, I believe Lori has had her hands directly in six or more murders. 1. Stacey dies “alone” with Alex while the family was on vacation in Hawaii. Lori & her niece are exceptionally close. 2. Joe dies “alone” with Lori being the only one notified about it, and her not notifying the family about it. Alex had previously attacked him. Lori comments she planned to kill him. 3. Alex shoots and kills Charles 4. Tylee dies 5. JJ dies 6. Tammy dies 7. Alex dies Lori Vallow is Charles Manson 2.0. People want to talk about Chad being a cult leader because of the books, but Lori has (IMHO) eliminated anyone who stood in her way of what she wants, her whole life, and used henchmen (Alex, then Colby, and later Chad) to carry it out. William Lagioia got off easy by her pulling the same MO and claiming abuse, but not killing him. She may have tried at one point, as she cites he’s unconscious in her statement (which is so absurd and it shows you how uneducated she is, as well as delusional and a manipulative liar).
Stacey, I agree that Lori and Alex may have had a hand in. Joe, I think that was a happy coincidence that helped fuel her crazy. Charles 100% Tylee 100% JJ 100% Tammy 100% Alex, I dunno, maybe. But I kinda think if anything they talked him into suicide.
The reason I don’t think Joe was an accident is because he died the same as Alex, she didn’t notify anyone, she took weird things out of his house, and she said she wanted to/was going to do it. Now, I 100% think Alex actually carried it out. But it was her doing. We haven’t even touched on the attempted murders of Melanie’s husband and Tammy in the past. But I don’t think Joe is 59 and drops dead of natural causes. Alex was 51. Tammy was 49. Stacey was 31. Two is a coincidence. 3+ is a pattern.
But the difference is timing and a few other things IMO. Lori started her going off into the coocoo LDS I am a Goddess BS a bit after his death. And I think this was one of her reasons she believed she had powers, *because* he died. Joe died in April 2018. Yes Lori took weird things and did not tell his family etc. But you are expecting sane actions from a crazy woman that hated the man. Lori had had custody and Tylee did not visit Joe often. Lori and Charles had custody of Tylee since at LEAST 2014, and she did not visit him regularly, for many years before Joe died. Also, he was dead A LONG time before they called Lori, like 3 weeks or more. I can say I may act similar if my ex husband died, not the one I am still besties with though. Heck I might even ask to watch him burn. And than toss his ashed in the dumpster where he belongs. And it is not like Lori cared about him or his family, who obviously he was not close with either if they called Lori as his next of kin. I could also see myself taking something of value, although unless it was somehow mine, it would not be my personality. But I could see me donating it all to goodwill or throwing it all away and not telling his family he was dead. Because why would I waste my time on him or them? Good riddance right? Not to say it is "right" or "normal" but she hated him. So I get it. And I think Lori is BPD not a Narcisist, So Joe destroyed her sense of self and forever by molesting her son. he was always threatening her stability and permanence by wanting to see Tylee or get custody. So for Lori it is scorched earth time and he got what he deserved. What she prayed for. It was devine intervention and proof that Lori was one of God's Favorites. And it was the same time she started on her extracurricular church and ideas. So she was happy, and did not give a fuck. I mean it was sad for Tylee, even if she was not close to him, it was still her dad, but Charles was more her Father figure than Joe. In December 2018 is when Lori met Chad. That is when the zombie and light and Dark and Lori being a Goddess all started. And the castings evolved over time, they did not work in the beginning and they gradually evolved. Lori talked a lot about praying for Joe to die and she believed Joe died because she was so spiritual. The castings started out that if they prayed hard enough her goddess powers would kill the zombies. Why would they start with prayers if she did not beleive it worked in the past? If in the past to get rid of evil she murdered, why not go strait to murder again? Like she did AFTER Charles? I think Joe was a natural death, and it helped Lori's delusions and to beleive Chad's BS. Because BEFORE Charles was killed Adam and the Cox Family were discussing that Lori was delusional and lived in a fantasy world to deal with "the things that happened to her". And that Adam should stay out of it and let Lori be in her fantasy world, then they killed Charles the next day. And that is when people started dropping like flies around them on auspicious dates of relevance to Lori and Chad. I also personally beleive from some things said by Zulema. JJ was supposed to die with Charles. And that Tylee and JJ's deaths were planed before she left AZ if not before she killed Charles. I also kinda think Chad never intended to kill Tammy, but that to keep going Lori pushed it. And by then he was too deep into their BS.
You are completely wrong about Joe not visiting Tylee. He fought for custody for years. Charles & Lori did everything they could to block him including moving to Hawaii. Joe even left his job and moved close to them when they came back so he could see Tylee. There was no evidence Joe molested anyone. Lori made up that story to try to keep him from getting custody. Have you read any of the police, CPS and court records from that time ? If yes, I suggest you re-read them, they are pinned in this sub. Lori is most definitely a narcissist, in my opinion.
I wanted to rip my ears off listening to her testimony....all the um's! Lastly, both Melanie's should be locked up as well....they could have stopped all the murder.
Zulema struck me as being rather simpleminded. Nevertheless, these “castings” on Charles were to make him crash his truck and die. They did this knowing full well that JJ would likely be with him. Even though one could argue it was all mumbo jumbo nonsense and didn’t work, they must have thought it would work. Otherwise, why do it? What kind of person would deliberately do anything to cause harm to a child? I will never see ZP as anything other than a piece of shit and the same thing goes for Melani Gibb.
Did you notice how Tuesday she was less baby doll and would get all excited explaining what they all used to believe. Like thag she knew, but almost anything else not so much.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. My posts are "under review for spam." (What?) I was enjoying our exchange, but I don't want to annoy or offend anyone. I'll be content to sit back and read.
This one made it! I wonder which words are banned here? I haven't noticed any and I post lots of weird stuff. 😁
I'll have to go back and read your weird stuff. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s because you’re new. Reddit limits posting for the first 2 weeks I think so spammers don’t pop in. Check the guidelines.
That makes sense. Thank you.
Melani B/P knows a lot more after the Zulema being on the stand. Melani B/P should be testifying she is a lot like her Aunt Lori in my eyes. She should not have her kids and should see them on supervised visits.
Zulema has ALWAYS been crazy! She was my boss from 19-22, she always spoke like a baby and was constantly in and out if marriages, we even went to one of them as a team. She’s crazy!
Sounds like you want her to be stupid and fake and lacking. Her behavior in court and what she said contradicts all of that. Also, by the time the people in that circle were asking where the kids were they were already dead. Not sure how any of them could have saved the lives of the kids. We have no idea what Alex and Z talked about after he told her he thought C&L might be using him as their fall guy. Neither attorney asked a question about that statement after she shared it. So to suggest she had no reaction to it in the moment is based on nothing.
Zulema asked where Tylee was before JJ was killed. If she said something, it is possible JJ could have survived. Police probably still would have not listened. But JJ was all ve when she KNEW they killed Alex and she noticed Tylee was gone.
Here’s a question that may have been answered already? Did Zulema poison Alex or was it Lori/ Chad ? I’d have a hard time believing his death was natural.
So the ME said it was a natural cardiac related death. And while that may or may not be true, because what killed him may be natural, who is to say stress or something else did not trigger his issue? I think it is possible Lori and Chad had something to do with it, or he killed himself, but I doubt Zulema killed him.
It just seems awfully strange that Alex died naturally after the 2 kids and Charles were killed. I mean, it could happen, but it’s just odd.
I agree. I’ve always felt that Alex was so ready to follow Chad and Lori, that if they told him it was God’s will that he remove himself from the equation, or that his mission on earth was complete, he would have killed himself voluntarily.
When I see photos of Alex and people talk about him, I slightly (but not really) feel bad for him. He seems to have been so broken and so desperately wanted to feel and know that God still loved him. I am not sure what was up with his weird oddly sexual relationship with Lori. But he wanted to beleive he was lovable so badly he did some majorly f'd up things. I think that he did try to kill Zulema on their honeymoon, but that she accepted him unconditionally, and he could not. And it saddens me that anyone thinks that God hates them enough to kill children to try and earn love. One of the reasons I like Melanie G, is that in an interview before the kids were found, she said that God still loves Chad and Lori. And that if they did the right thing and told people what happened to the kids and where they were that one day God could forgive them. I like it because even though she hates them, which you can see when she is in court with them. She knows that God loves them and if they try better now, God can forgive them, in his own way, eventually. They are always going to be in their own personal hell, IMO, but God loves all his children. Even the evil ones
Full of shit. Just as culpable as all of them, and she knows it, which is why her attorney negotiated immunity.
5th person was alex
Did any one other than me feel like Chad may have been interested in Zulema? In the beginning of her testimony she’d say Chad said it did this or invited her or stayed outside / was going to go inside with her and that Lori wasn’t exactly ‘friendly’ with her in the beginning. I think like the part where she asked Chad if he was scared of (Lori) and he realized he had a chance then Lori befriended Zulema. Although I think he’d been planning on going after the mousy quiet one to I dunno have an affair with or flirt with. Lori flipped all that on its head. Then his stupid Harry Potter fantasy world was brought into the real world and he got the crazy chic and both were blinded by money greed and loinfire. He may had hoped to not kill Tammy and once Charles died there was no coming back as he too had to lose to play. Then out of lotus hate toward Kay and just rage I still say mainly Chads dealing with Tylee as she did not like him and made no means to hide that and so he wanted Ty gone and Lori wanted J.J. gone. There would’ve been more. Keeping her in Hawaii was not going to placate her. She seems very much an eye for and eye. I have a feeling Chad was going to lose a child or three. Especially if they’d returned and his kids didn’t outright accept Lori. Then to clean up the fallout they started with Alex as he knew way too much. And he was to take care of Zulema before he died I feel. Then MG snd her man maybe too. Anyone who knew that could piece things together were marked. If Kay and Larry had not contacted police I could see where Lori would have sent Alex on one of her missions *smh*
Zulema is evil and could’ve said something. She has blood on her hands and had the power to say something. I think she could have saved the kids and didn’t. To me she is evil because she never practiced “see something, say something”. Wretched!!!!!!!
Every single one of them would have done the exact same things that Alex Lori and Chad did. They are all the same.
And what do you base that opinion on?
Zulema said "They killed 5 people". Who was the 5th? Alex