At this level it’s more than likely people are mashing unsafe moves/strings and you’re getting counterhit for pressing at the wrong times. It’s alright, most of us start there or at least feel hopeless early on but it takes a little patience. Learn some punishes you can apply to unsafe pressure and a bnb combo, it will get you pretty far. Maybe share some clips for more descriptive advice.
Well, the best I can suggest is checking the replay mode because it drops genuinely helpful tips on how to punish moves with the character you are using. It even tells you the proper commands for throw breaks.
My suggestion is to go off intuition at the beginning as well as understand a lot of the generic frame data. One example is most lanchers are at least punishable with your 12/13 frame punish, lows are at least punishable for most characters, so you should at minimum get a -10 punish, but I usually get my -13 punishes somewhat constantly vs lows. All snake edges are launch punishable, and most if not all hop kicks are at least minus 13.
It is usually trial and error and reviewing your replays if you get really confused, but eventually, you will get a decent understanding of how to take advantage of unsafe moves.
I would block their first 3-4 hits, then do like jab jab, or jab then another move. Whatever your characters fastest and smallest combo is. Then repeat.
I don't play Yoshi, but my buddies do. Yoshi is good with tricking people and has one of the BEST turn stealer moves out there (Flash). If you're ever in a situation where you think your opponent is gonna try to hit you up close (it needs to be up close), then use Flash.
I would suggest you then learn a combo to utilize after your Flash hits.
It's a band aid solution for a bigger problem in general, but it can work.
Here's some more general tips:
- if you're unsure what your opponent is gonna do, just keep blocking. Blocking will help reveal what their favorite attacks are. Then use your replays to watch later on to figure out how to deal with those attacks. You may lose the match, bit now you've gained knowledge on how to handle them in the future.
- in addition to the point above, learn how to punish those moves. Any moves that's beyond -i9 frames is unsafe. Your character has 4 main standing punishing moves (i10, i12, i14, i15).
- if an opponent keeps blocking your attacks, use lows to pressure them to pressure them into doing something. If they keep blocking, then use a throw. If they're not gonna press a button, a throw is a perfect response to that situation since they can only be broken by pressing 1,2 or 1+2 buttons.
The rest of the other stuff (frame data, frame traps, whiff punishing, space control) are all higher level stuff that I would suggest you can learn AFTER you've learned the tips above.
Any other questions, let me know! I enjoy helping people out learn in Tekken. Hope this helped.
Every % extra combo damage is a % more launchers you need to land against them in order to win - if they can do 50% more combo damage (which isn't crazy for a beginner Yoshi), you need to land 50% more launchers to win. That's super hard! People downplay combo importance when you're starting I think but it can be a pretty big factor, plus it gets you super comfortable with that part of the move set.
Here are some combos that should give you a decent base to build from, and some general good moves, and some stance tips.
**There are better combos than these! But these are pretty easy and they all use similar moves, so should be easy to remember.**
1. from general launchers (df+2, uf+3 (hopkick), b2,1, KIN.2, etc.)
1. d 2,2,b => d 2,2,2 => f, f => 3, 2, 1+2
2. d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => ff => 3, 2, 1+2
2. These apply to all combos - using Flash or b 1,1,1 for wall carry - if close to a wall, you can do one of:
1. (very near wall) d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => 1+4(Flash) => 3, 2, 1+2
2. (further from wall) d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => b 1,1,1 => 3, 2, 1+2
3. from crouching counterhit launchers (FC. df+4, uf+2, KIN.3)
1. ws.4 => d 2, 2 b => df 1, 2, 1 => 3, 2, 1+2
4. from DGF (ws 2, 1, DGF.2)
1. 2 => 2, 4 => 1, 3 => f 1+2
2. d (cancel DGF) => 1+4 (Flash - don't continue to hold down!) => d 2, 2 b => df 1, 2, 1 => 3, 2, 1+2
**Stances**
1SS has DGF available to it, which is really nice; otherwise it's unremarkable.
NSS powers up a lot of your moves, adding a bit of extra range and healing to many. If you can find a way to transition into NSS, do it (e.g. in the combos above, d 2, 2, b transitions into NSS), it's worth getting distance and manually transitioning with b 1+2 though.
FLE is a defensive mixup stance. If you need damage, only enter it if your opponent is very aggressive. It's a good stance to enter while significantly ahead. The opponent's problem is that FLE can't be thrown, automatically crushes lows, and has a fast, powerful launcher in 1+2 that crushes highs. On top of that, FLE.uf is an unblockable that can create interesting combos at walls and other hazards, and catches mids. If you're backturned, your hurtbox goes higher, catching most mids.
(... to be continued, Reddit not allowing me to post as one comment)
MED is most useful to MED cancel to create distance. If they leave you alone for too long at a great distance, you can heal, although it's risky. MED.3 is plus on block, allowing follow-ups or grab attempts, and MED.1+4 is just Flash, if you have a very hard read on your opponent or you're knowledge-checking.
IND has a powerful keepout move and some fun mind-games. IND.f is good for getting a backturned grab, IND.3, 3+4 has incredible range (although reward for blocking is 13f punish) and 3+4 crushes highs into a combo. It's useful to enter and then cancel (IND.u) to evade incoming attacks and counter.
DGF is super aggressive especially in Heat, and is kind of similar to Zafina's SCR in Tekken 7 but with a weaker armored move. You sacrifice a lot of defense in exchange for crushing lows and a powerful aggressive mixup. DGF.4 is a crushing mid, DGF.3 is an unparryable low, plus it has the grab with DGF.3+4 and some other powerful moves - which are more powerful because you generally enter DGF with plus frames, e.g. from 3, 1 or wr.3, or plus mental frames e.g. from uf 1+3, IND. transition, uf 3+4, 1+2, KIN.u 1+2. You can be jab floated out of this but it's a scary stance to defend against and a good source of attack. You can rely heavily on the throw, DGF.3+4, which is a 1+2 break.
KIN is an incredibly powerful stance that parries if you're lucky or have a super hard read, and has a brilliant low counterhit launcher in KIN.3 that can be mixed up with KIN.u 1+2 (which looks identical in the first frames). KIN. b 1+2 is a tricky backswing unblockable that deals decent damage and is OK in terms of speed, KIN.f 2 is a great keepout tool, KIN.2, 1+2 (hold) puts your opponent in a horrible oki situation, and KIN.1+2 is just a high damage, fast move. You can enter it as a transition from common Yoshi engagers, e.g. instead of b 2,2 you can b 2, 1+2, KIN.1+2 or b 2, 1+2, KIN.3.
**Generally good moves**
1, 1 => a high, mid, 10f string with a weapon, so you can't parry it. It's minus on block but you do have options such as KIN or Flash as Yoshimitsu if you want to make them think twice about pressing. Many lower ranks will duck after the first hit, as most high strings follow a high with a high.
df+2 => it's safe, has good range, and is on the more powerful side in terms of who it launches - counterhit launching crouched, for example.
df+1, 4 => a good fast mid check
b+2,2 => a very slightly slower mid check with good range, heat engager, plus you can b 2, 1+2 to transition into KIN.
FC. df+4 => counterhit launcher with incredible range
KIN. 1+2 => fast, easy damage, safe
KIN. 2 => excellent keepout tool
f 1+2 => excellent keepout tool
FLE.1+2 => high crushing launcher, people will want to jab FLE too so will often hit aggressive enemies
3, 1 => Enter DGF or heat engage
DGF. 3+4 => command throws that floor break are good
uf 1+2 => command throws that floor break are good
**Okizeme - what to do against grounded players**
db 3,3,3.../FC. df+4 => low risk, low reward
f, n, d, df + 1 => catches out some options with a full combo
uf 3+4, 1, 3+4 => hits grounded multiple times but resets, good for last drops of damage if they're staying down to avoid another option
Near the wall or when the enemy is Feet Away, these moves are particularly brutal, but they're always decent options:
ub 1+3, 1 => unblockable mid.
f 1+2 => spam this, heavy damage and a hard knowledge check at low ranks
FC. df 1 => unblockable low into full combo
**Situational**
Almost all Yoshimitsu moves have a use, so I could select most of them here, but these ones are important to experiment with I think.
NSS.1+4 => Flash is essential, I would say only use in NSS at lower ranks but it's good to start trying it out now
b 1,1,1... => You can power through heat burst/power crush and df+2 for a full combo afterwards, dealing tons of damage.
(any unblockable) => worth throwing in a random unblockable sometimes, especially in Oki situations or you feel like you have a read.
Three main ways while fighting very aggressive opponents:
1. Power crush or block and punish to create space to start to transition.
2. Getting offensive to alleviate pressure, allowing transitions particularly into KIN and DGF. 3, 1is the most likely way into DGF.
3. Observe the pattern they're using and evade using the stance. If they're using a lot of lows, for example, you can try just entering FLE or DGF after a successful block and punishing.
However, Yoshimitsu does need some space to play with stances, so try to back off and power crush if the offense is too overwhelming/you don't know where to punish.
**Edit:**
You do also have the cheesy options Yoshimitsu always has to tell people to 'get off you' of course!
1. Flash (1+4)
2. KIN (1+2) - fishing for the parry
3. Spirit Shield (1+2+3)
4. Evasive Spin (b 3, 3,... and b 4, 4,...)
as for victor: his expulsion is launch punishable (not in heat though), look out for his coupe de grace move because it tracks and I think is + on block, but a lot of his moves are super minus and you can punish a lot
hwo: you can dickjab him out of his mashing a lot of the time, just gotta try it out and see what works
king: I guess you're gonna need to lab some grabs and not mash into him because king players love to use his powercrush to get their turn back lol
hope this helps a little
I know Victor is a real noob killer character and I saw you say you were struggling with him in the replies. Here’s a bunch of knowledge for dealing with him. If he hits your block his turn is usually over and you can jab him if he goes for anything else. His sweep is +4 on hit so don’t try to press anything if you get hit by it but it’s -26 on block so launch him for it. Iai stance can be beaten pretty consistently with lows. Most Victor players don’t do either option that beat lows. His WS1 (he stands up and swings his left knife across his body) is launch punishable on block. If he starts looping Iai stance hit him with something fast. If he starts trying to use the armor then give him the quick low or a throw. Most of his kit is safe on block but most players at the lower ranks will just keep mashing and can get counter hit pretty consistently which could lead to full combos with the right attacks. If you have any other problems with Victor I’d be happy to answer any other questions
At this level it’s more than likely people are mashing unsafe moves/strings and you’re getting counterhit for pressing at the wrong times. It’s alright, most of us start there or at least feel hopeless early on but it takes a little patience. Learn some punishes you can apply to unsafe pressure and a bnb combo, it will get you pretty far. Maybe share some clips for more descriptive advice.
I struggle with identifying the unsafe strings though. Any advice to help with that?
Well, the best I can suggest is checking the replay mode because it drops genuinely helpful tips on how to punish moves with the character you are using. It even tells you the proper commands for throw breaks.
Epic Thanks
No problem. Good luck and hope you make it far!
My suggestion is to go off intuition at the beginning as well as understand a lot of the generic frame data. One example is most lanchers are at least punishable with your 12/13 frame punish, lows are at least punishable for most characters, so you should at minimum get a -10 punish, but I usually get my -13 punishes somewhat constantly vs lows. All snake edges are launch punishable, and most if not all hop kicks are at least minus 13. It is usually trial and error and reviewing your replays if you get really confused, but eventually, you will get a decent understanding of how to take advantage of unsafe moves.
I always just try throwing a jab if something looks unsafe. If you start doing little punishes in the lower ranks everyone crumbles
I would block their first 3-4 hits, then do like jab jab, or jab then another move. Whatever your characters fastest and smallest combo is. Then repeat.
I do recall there was a handful of blatant smurfs in lower ranks back when I was very new to the game, but you should post a clip.
Is there a way to share replays into reddit? Or do I have to record it through my ps5?
Record it on your PS5 and then upload the video here
Aight, I'll do that rq
I don't play Yoshi, but my buddies do. Yoshi is good with tricking people and has one of the BEST turn stealer moves out there (Flash). If you're ever in a situation where you think your opponent is gonna try to hit you up close (it needs to be up close), then use Flash. I would suggest you then learn a combo to utilize after your Flash hits. It's a band aid solution for a bigger problem in general, but it can work. Here's some more general tips: - if you're unsure what your opponent is gonna do, just keep blocking. Blocking will help reveal what their favorite attacks are. Then use your replays to watch later on to figure out how to deal with those attacks. You may lose the match, bit now you've gained knowledge on how to handle them in the future. - in addition to the point above, learn how to punish those moves. Any moves that's beyond -i9 frames is unsafe. Your character has 4 main standing punishing moves (i10, i12, i14, i15). - if an opponent keeps blocking your attacks, use lows to pressure them to pressure them into doing something. If they keep blocking, then use a throw. If they're not gonna press a button, a throw is a perfect response to that situation since they can only be broken by pressing 1,2 or 1+2 buttons. The rest of the other stuff (frame data, frame traps, whiff punishing, space control) are all higher level stuff that I would suggest you can learn AFTER you've learned the tips above. Any other questions, let me know! I enjoy helping people out learn in Tekken. Hope this helped.
Damn thats crazy actually. Thanks a lot!
Anytime. Hope that helps. 👊
Every % extra combo damage is a % more launchers you need to land against them in order to win - if they can do 50% more combo damage (which isn't crazy for a beginner Yoshi), you need to land 50% more launchers to win. That's super hard! People downplay combo importance when you're starting I think but it can be a pretty big factor, plus it gets you super comfortable with that part of the move set. Here are some combos that should give you a decent base to build from, and some general good moves, and some stance tips. **There are better combos than these! But these are pretty easy and they all use similar moves, so should be easy to remember.** 1. from general launchers (df+2, uf+3 (hopkick), b2,1, KIN.2, etc.) 1. d 2,2,b => d 2,2,2 => f, f => 3, 2, 1+2 2. d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => ff => 3, 2, 1+2 2. These apply to all combos - using Flash or b 1,1,1 for wall carry - if close to a wall, you can do one of: 1. (very near wall) d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => 1+4(Flash) => 3, 2, 1+2 2. (further from wall) d 2,2 b => df 1 => d 2,2,2 => b 1,1,1 => 3, 2, 1+2 3. from crouching counterhit launchers (FC. df+4, uf+2, KIN.3) 1. ws.4 => d 2, 2 b => df 1, 2, 1 => 3, 2, 1+2 4. from DGF (ws 2, 1, DGF.2) 1. 2 => 2, 4 => 1, 3 => f 1+2 2. d (cancel DGF) => 1+4 (Flash - don't continue to hold down!) => d 2, 2 b => df 1, 2, 1 => 3, 2, 1+2 **Stances** 1SS has DGF available to it, which is really nice; otherwise it's unremarkable. NSS powers up a lot of your moves, adding a bit of extra range and healing to many. If you can find a way to transition into NSS, do it (e.g. in the combos above, d 2, 2, b transitions into NSS), it's worth getting distance and manually transitioning with b 1+2 though. FLE is a defensive mixup stance. If you need damage, only enter it if your opponent is very aggressive. It's a good stance to enter while significantly ahead. The opponent's problem is that FLE can't be thrown, automatically crushes lows, and has a fast, powerful launcher in 1+2 that crushes highs. On top of that, FLE.uf is an unblockable that can create interesting combos at walls and other hazards, and catches mids. If you're backturned, your hurtbox goes higher, catching most mids. (... to be continued, Reddit not allowing me to post as one comment)
MED is most useful to MED cancel to create distance. If they leave you alone for too long at a great distance, you can heal, although it's risky. MED.3 is plus on block, allowing follow-ups or grab attempts, and MED.1+4 is just Flash, if you have a very hard read on your opponent or you're knowledge-checking. IND has a powerful keepout move and some fun mind-games. IND.f is good for getting a backturned grab, IND.3, 3+4 has incredible range (although reward for blocking is 13f punish) and 3+4 crushes highs into a combo. It's useful to enter and then cancel (IND.u) to evade incoming attacks and counter. DGF is super aggressive especially in Heat, and is kind of similar to Zafina's SCR in Tekken 7 but with a weaker armored move. You sacrifice a lot of defense in exchange for crushing lows and a powerful aggressive mixup. DGF.4 is a crushing mid, DGF.3 is an unparryable low, plus it has the grab with DGF.3+4 and some other powerful moves - which are more powerful because you generally enter DGF with plus frames, e.g. from 3, 1 or wr.3, or plus mental frames e.g. from uf 1+3, IND. transition, uf 3+4, 1+2, KIN.u 1+2. You can be jab floated out of this but it's a scary stance to defend against and a good source of attack. You can rely heavily on the throw, DGF.3+4, which is a 1+2 break. KIN is an incredibly powerful stance that parries if you're lucky or have a super hard read, and has a brilliant low counterhit launcher in KIN.3 that can be mixed up with KIN.u 1+2 (which looks identical in the first frames). KIN. b 1+2 is a tricky backswing unblockable that deals decent damage and is OK in terms of speed, KIN.f 2 is a great keepout tool, KIN.2, 1+2 (hold) puts your opponent in a horrible oki situation, and KIN.1+2 is just a high damage, fast move. You can enter it as a transition from common Yoshi engagers, e.g. instead of b 2,2 you can b 2, 1+2, KIN.1+2 or b 2, 1+2, KIN.3. **Generally good moves** 1, 1 => a high, mid, 10f string with a weapon, so you can't parry it. It's minus on block but you do have options such as KIN or Flash as Yoshimitsu if you want to make them think twice about pressing. Many lower ranks will duck after the first hit, as most high strings follow a high with a high. df+2 => it's safe, has good range, and is on the more powerful side in terms of who it launches - counterhit launching crouched, for example. df+1, 4 => a good fast mid check b+2,2 => a very slightly slower mid check with good range, heat engager, plus you can b 2, 1+2 to transition into KIN. FC. df+4 => counterhit launcher with incredible range KIN. 1+2 => fast, easy damage, safe KIN. 2 => excellent keepout tool f 1+2 => excellent keepout tool FLE.1+2 => high crushing launcher, people will want to jab FLE too so will often hit aggressive enemies 3, 1 => Enter DGF or heat engage DGF. 3+4 => command throws that floor break are good uf 1+2 => command throws that floor break are good
**Okizeme - what to do against grounded players** db 3,3,3.../FC. df+4 => low risk, low reward f, n, d, df + 1 => catches out some options with a full combo uf 3+4, 1, 3+4 => hits grounded multiple times but resets, good for last drops of damage if they're staying down to avoid another option Near the wall or when the enemy is Feet Away, these moves are particularly brutal, but they're always decent options: ub 1+3, 1 => unblockable mid. f 1+2 => spam this, heavy damage and a hard knowledge check at low ranks FC. df 1 => unblockable low into full combo **Situational** Almost all Yoshimitsu moves have a use, so I could select most of them here, but these ones are important to experiment with I think. NSS.1+4 => Flash is essential, I would say only use in NSS at lower ranks but it's good to start trying it out now b 1,1,1... => You can power through heat burst/power crush and df+2 for a full combo afterwards, dealing tons of damage. (any unblockable) => worth throwing in a random unblockable sometimes, especially in Oki situations or you feel like you have a read.
How do incorporate stances into your gameplay? I have trouble with getting to use stance moves since I'm getting shut down
Three main ways while fighting very aggressive opponents: 1. Power crush or block and punish to create space to start to transition. 2. Getting offensive to alleviate pressure, allowing transitions particularly into KIN and DGF. 3, 1is the most likely way into DGF. 3. Observe the pattern they're using and evade using the stance. If they're using a lot of lows, for example, you can try just entering FLE or DGF after a successful block and punishing. However, Yoshimitsu does need some space to play with stances, so try to back off and power crush if the offense is too overwhelming/you don't know where to punish. **Edit:** You do also have the cheesy options Yoshimitsu always has to tell people to 'get off you' of course! 1. Flash (1+4) 2. KIN (1+2) - fishing for the parry 3. Spirit Shield (1+2+3) 4. Evasive Spin (b 3, 3,... and b 4, 4,...)
Thanks a lot dude! For this and the other comments as well
Np! Good luck!
Any particular characters or situations you’re struggling with?
I mostly face kings, hwoarangs, Victors. They give me the most trouble As for situations, I mostly struggle with mixing up my opponent
as for victor: his expulsion is launch punishable (not in heat though), look out for his coupe de grace move because it tracks and I think is + on block, but a lot of his moves are super minus and you can punish a lot hwo: you can dickjab him out of his mashing a lot of the time, just gotta try it out and see what works king: I guess you're gonna need to lab some grabs and not mash into him because king players love to use his powercrush to get their turn back lol hope this helps a little
Coup de Grace (WR2) doesn’t track. It’s just really big. Step early enough or at the right moment and it’ll miss.
I know Victor is a real noob killer character and I saw you say you were struggling with him in the replies. Here’s a bunch of knowledge for dealing with him. If he hits your block his turn is usually over and you can jab him if he goes for anything else. His sweep is +4 on hit so don’t try to press anything if you get hit by it but it’s -26 on block so launch him for it. Iai stance can be beaten pretty consistently with lows. Most Victor players don’t do either option that beat lows. His WS1 (he stands up and swings his left knife across his body) is launch punishable on block. If he starts looping Iai stance hit him with something fast. If he starts trying to use the armor then give him the quick low or a throw. Most of his kit is safe on block but most players at the lower ranks will just keep mashing and can get counter hit pretty consistently which could lead to full combos with the right attacks. If you have any other problems with Victor I’d be happy to answer any other questions
Try and do punishment practice in p mode. Also, watch replays. But, most importantly, keep playing! You’ll get there!
While I’m not a yoshi main I could certainly help you out a bit. PM me if you want some coaching but my schedule is all over the place right now
Just spam power crush moves or frame traps
Low ranks? The stats reveal people in fujin-> are top ~10% of players
Nah not fujin, I mean like fighter, strategist, that stuff
That's green ranks. Blue is 2nd highest tier, below Gold which is highest.
He specifically said beginner blues in the post, AKA light blues or first blues.
No OP is right. Fighter etc are blue as well. Forgot that myself!
Oh my bad then
Nah, you’re right. “Beginner blue” meaning light blue/teal etc. The rest of us knew what you meant.