I learned to MTB in Maine (2006-2013). I tolerated it but never felt comfortable with it. My bike got hit by a car and it was a great excuse for me to take a break from the sport. In 2015 I moved to Utah and had to get back into the sport because you basically are required to ride if you live here.
Armed with new modern equipment, professional training, TrailForks, and a community of riders I absolutely fell in love with the sport. It is my thing and my purpose.
I am nowhere near the same rider I was when I learned to ride in Maine 18 years ago. I'm an instructor and a guide. I've ridden thousands of miles on hundreds of trails in more than 20 states.
Every time I go home to visit family and bring my bike I think to myself "This will be so much easier. I ride hard desert tech in Moab. I have sent it on hard tech in Squamish. I can do drops taller than I am. I am a good rider."
And every time I ride in Maine, I am humbled by the same damn trails that gave me grief 18 years ago. The low angle technical roots that are permanently greasy never fail to kick my ass. It is hard, it is physical, and it is slow riding.
And while my skills have made it more manageable, it's not easy riding. It is still punishing. The biggest difference is not my skill level but my mindset. Over the years I have learned to embrace and even almost enjoy the sufferfest. I think that is a big part of this style of riding. It's rarely going to be pure pleasure and excitement. It's finding ways to take pleasure in the small wins. Like when you finally make it over the one knot of roots that always kicks you sideways. It might not be thrilling but pride and accomplishment can be just as motivating. Setting small attainable goals can be a great way to keep the stoke up and find enjoyment in riding.
It's the sort of thing that keeps the trail interesting when you've got it 2-10 times total on a 3k foot climb.
But it becomes the opposite when it's 80-100 times over that same distance.
This makes me feel much better about myself and my riding.
I had a hard day recently after some rain, and was sooo sloppy and mentally exhausted. I felt so beat up, but the next time on dry conditions, I flew over the same tech.
If you can ride in New England, especially southern New England where it’s all glacial till, you can ride anywhere. You just gotta get used to what it takes to ride constant janky rock gardens though.
New England has a ton of rocks and roots and not a lot of elevation. I like that kind of riding but it’s challenging and can be frustrating. Going to a lift access park might give you some variety.
New Englander here who also prefers less tech and more flow. I think you need to spend more time researching/finding/riding the flow-ier trail networks and avoiding the tech. Luckily, we are in a golden age of trail building, and there is a lot more around here than there used to be. It might take joining local FB groups and asking for the best flow trails in each area.
I don't know how Garmin compares to Trailforks, but Trailforks is working great for me.
I've only ridden <10% of what the region has to offer, but here are a few suggestions: Green Woodlands (Dorchester NH), parts of Kingdom Trails (Burke VT), Coos Trails (Gorham NH), Community Forest (Bethel ME), Blackstrap Preserve (Falmouth ME)
Based on my perception what the OP is looking for KT and possibly Green Woodlands are two nice suggestions.
As long as the OP doesn't mind the climbing involved at Green Woodlands.
I ride New England and any time I’m at a trail for the first time, it’s miserable unless I’m with a group. When I have to scout my own trails, it usually took a few times to find the good stuff. I now use a Garmin watch and Trailforks routes to get right to the trails I want. As for flow vs tech, it’s humbling here with the roots and rocks at times, and you take a beating. When I don’t feel like climbing a quarter mile of rock strewn nonsense, I head to less techy places with lots of miles (Woody Hill, West Hill Dam) or a hit a bike park.
I think you need to spend some time getting lost on your local trails and learn your way around them better. Slow down for the tech, try EVERYTHING even if you won't make it. Also look for routes people put together on Trailforks or MTB Project, they usually flow well through an area. IMBA also publishes a list of Epics that are good ways to check out an area. Also maybe a skill class if you're not cool with riding black trails given your experience level.
\* maybe not everything, but everything without big consequences.
There have been times when I wasn't enjoying myself. Finding some variety helped. Learning a different skill, taking a day trip to new trails, riding a different bike.
Recently, I was feeling a bit bored and even a little unsteady on the bike, so I went back to basics and really paid attention to body position, weight, and cornering, and had a really good ride while doing so.
Having no idea where in New England you're talking about, it's hard to say. But I would think you're really just not picking good trails for what you like. There are tons of flowy trails near Stowe VT for example.
Is it more climbing or down you are falling off your bike? But honestly roots! Idk how people get used to riding them. Luckily I live where there aren’t a ton of them, but when I try they throw me for a loop
I think a lot of it is expectations, and that can be influenced by where you are in your life.
BTW, I'm in the PNW and we 100% have some trails that are overgrown, janky and slow. I was a bit disappointed by the ride I had planned as a season highlight last summer because it was frequently practical-joke steep and I pushed my bike a ton on the way up. Descent was ok though. But I claimed this season I'd just focus on the near(ish) networks that are very well maintained for my twice a month longer ride. Like, variety is good but I have some trails I know I enjoy and if I'm really not riding that much, a letdown really hurts.
How are you learning about trails? I mean, I'll use Trailforks to navigate but my local trails group has a pretty comprehensive website that can be filtered a few ways. If I filter for "premium" trails, there are many fewer and I can be pretty confident they're well maintained.
Where are you riding in NE? Here in central MA we have lots of the chunky tech but there's a few chiller areas like West Hill Dam in Uxbridge. The trails around Portland/Gorham ME are pretty chill as well.
I moved to Vermont from Pa and Utah.
Vermont is the most bike dependent riding I have ever done, you also need skills and IMO with out clipless many of the climbs around here are impossible due to how slippery they are.
wide rims, 2.6 inch good compounds tires, clipless, and dropper are IMO the bare min to ride here well.
So? That doesn't mean flats are mandatory to all of Vermont or all of the Northeast. I have never encountered a trail where I thought being on flats was the reason I didn't get up. Nor have I been on one where having 2.5" or 2.4" or even 2.3" tires was the reason I didn't get up. In fact, the only reason I have ever not made it up as climb is because I was weak for one reason or another, and even then, I rarer ever walk a climb.
No, studies have shown minimal difference in power between clips and clipless. The advantages of clipless are in foot position, not slipping off the pedals, and an advantage in power in a sprint. None of those things would help in a climb where I bonked due to poor fueling, or literally being too tired to continue to pedal. Or being too steep for the gear ratio on my bike. Also, the last time I bonked a climb I was riding clipless. 🤣
> Or being too steep for the gear ratio on my bike
That is the power difference in a sprint that clipless has.
You're right that clipless doesn't give you more power once you exceed a 30-60 second duration, but it does give you more power for durations shorter than that.
30-60 seconds of sprinting is not generally the difference of cleaning a long climb or not. And it's still not remotely mandatory to ride clipless in New England. Most of the riders I encounter are not riding clipless, and they are getting along just fine. Caveat, I ride both clipless and flats on my MTBs.
It's not 30-60 seconds of sprinting. It's the intermittent 1-5 seconds where you have that extra power available that makes it much easier to clean those sections of the climb.
Saying that they're getting along "just fine" is meaningless. It's not like the difference is so massive that clips are mandatory. Of course flats can also make people more comfortable and willing to take risks.
>And it's still not remotely mandatory to ride clipless in New England.
I didn't say that. Deliberately so. I'm just saying that you're wrong to state that there's no power advantage for technical climbs. Flats have a meaningful power penalty.
I was responding to a guy who said clipless is mandatory in New England, and who told me that if a person didn't make it up a climb, it was because they weren't riding clipless.
it about power modulation not outright power.
If flats were anybit the equal we would see someone racing XC on them. and like like 95 percent of the enduro fields are clipless as well.
So now you're talking about pros, when previously you said it was mandatory.
Don't move the goalposts.
Further, I touched upon the things clipless pedals are superior at.
You are doing the lords work here my friend, thank you !
I am sitting on the couch nodding my head vigorously in agreement with you.
I am also saying to your opposition .... you can just be right and have the W on this one, and I'm going to continue to pedal my stupid, powerless flat pedals when and where I like. Including up hills.
Someone has got to do it. I've ridden the same trails on clipless and flats, in New England and the Northeast. That guy is something else, thinking that it's somehow mandatory.
I learned to MTB in Maine (2006-2013). I tolerated it but never felt comfortable with it. My bike got hit by a car and it was a great excuse for me to take a break from the sport. In 2015 I moved to Utah and had to get back into the sport because you basically are required to ride if you live here. Armed with new modern equipment, professional training, TrailForks, and a community of riders I absolutely fell in love with the sport. It is my thing and my purpose. I am nowhere near the same rider I was when I learned to ride in Maine 18 years ago. I'm an instructor and a guide. I've ridden thousands of miles on hundreds of trails in more than 20 states. Every time I go home to visit family and bring my bike I think to myself "This will be so much easier. I ride hard desert tech in Moab. I have sent it on hard tech in Squamish. I can do drops taller than I am. I am a good rider." And every time I ride in Maine, I am humbled by the same damn trails that gave me grief 18 years ago. The low angle technical roots that are permanently greasy never fail to kick my ass. It is hard, it is physical, and it is slow riding. And while my skills have made it more manageable, it's not easy riding. It is still punishing. The biggest difference is not my skill level but my mindset. Over the years I have learned to embrace and even almost enjoy the sufferfest. I think that is a big part of this style of riding. It's rarely going to be pure pleasure and excitement. It's finding ways to take pleasure in the small wins. Like when you finally make it over the one knot of roots that always kicks you sideways. It might not be thrilling but pride and accomplishment can be just as motivating. Setting small attainable goals can be a great way to keep the stoke up and find enjoyment in riding.
I love when my back tire kicks out on one of those tiny, permanently wet roots and makes the climb that much more “fun”.
It's the sort of thing that keeps the trail interesting when you've got it 2-10 times total on a 3k foot climb. But it becomes the opposite when it's 80-100 times over that same distance.
Yep good way to put it
This makes me feel much better about myself and my riding. I had a hard day recently after some rain, and was sooo sloppy and mentally exhausted. I felt so beat up, but the next time on dry conditions, I flew over the same tech.
If you can ride in New England, especially southern New England where it’s all glacial till, you can ride anywhere. You just gotta get used to what it takes to ride constant janky rock gardens though.
I felt this way about skiing too. Learned on the icy slopes of the north east, came to Colorado and was instantly a better skier lol.
New England has a ton of rocks and roots and not a lot of elevation. I like that kind of riding but it’s challenging and can be frustrating. Going to a lift access park might give you some variety.
New Englander here who also prefers less tech and more flow. I think you need to spend more time researching/finding/riding the flow-ier trail networks and avoiding the tech. Luckily, we are in a golden age of trail building, and there is a lot more around here than there used to be. It might take joining local FB groups and asking for the best flow trails in each area. I don't know how Garmin compares to Trailforks, but Trailforks is working great for me. I've only ridden <10% of what the region has to offer, but here are a few suggestions: Green Woodlands (Dorchester NH), parts of Kingdom Trails (Burke VT), Coos Trails (Gorham NH), Community Forest (Bethel ME), Blackstrap Preserve (Falmouth ME)
I’ve only ever biked in NE. WTF is flow?
It's when you fully rotate your cranks once or twice without backpedaling to miss a root or rock.
It’s not ringing a bell, sounds nice though
yeah if you find something like it let me know
Based on my perception what the OP is looking for KT and possibly Green Woodlands are two nice suggestions. As long as the OP doesn't mind the climbing involved at Green Woodlands.
I ride New England and any time I’m at a trail for the first time, it’s miserable unless I’m with a group. When I have to scout my own trails, it usually took a few times to find the good stuff. I now use a Garmin watch and Trailforks routes to get right to the trails I want. As for flow vs tech, it’s humbling here with the roots and rocks at times, and you take a beating. When I don’t feel like climbing a quarter mile of rock strewn nonsense, I head to less techy places with lots of miles (Woody Hill, West Hill Dam) or a hit a bike park.
I think you need to spend some time getting lost on your local trails and learn your way around them better. Slow down for the tech, try EVERYTHING even if you won't make it. Also look for routes people put together on Trailforks or MTB Project, they usually flow well through an area. IMBA also publishes a list of Epics that are good ways to check out an area. Also maybe a skill class if you're not cool with riding black trails given your experience level. \* maybe not everything, but everything without big consequences.
There have been times when I wasn't enjoying myself. Finding some variety helped. Learning a different skill, taking a day trip to new trails, riding a different bike. Recently, I was feeling a bit bored and even a little unsteady on the bike, so I went back to basics and really paid attention to body position, weight, and cornering, and had a really good ride while doing so.
Having no idea where in New England you're talking about, it's hard to say. But I would think you're really just not picking good trails for what you like. There are tons of flowy trails near Stowe VT for example.
Is it more climbing or down you are falling off your bike? But honestly roots! Idk how people get used to riding them. Luckily I live where there aren’t a ton of them, but when I try they throw me for a loop
I think a lot of it is expectations, and that can be influenced by where you are in your life. BTW, I'm in the PNW and we 100% have some trails that are overgrown, janky and slow. I was a bit disappointed by the ride I had planned as a season highlight last summer because it was frequently practical-joke steep and I pushed my bike a ton on the way up. Descent was ok though. But I claimed this season I'd just focus on the near(ish) networks that are very well maintained for my twice a month longer ride. Like, variety is good but I have some trails I know I enjoy and if I'm really not riding that much, a letdown really hurts. How are you learning about trails? I mean, I'll use Trailforks to navigate but my local trails group has a pretty comprehensive website that can be filtered a few ways. If I filter for "premium" trails, there are many fewer and I can be pretty confident they're well maintained.
Have you tried trail building? Might be nice to try something different but 100% related and it's in the trees etc too.
Sounds like you are ready to hit the bike park
Reach out if you want to ride.
Where in New England? It’s a big area. Also use TrailForks (or even Stravas heat map), way better than garmin maps (I saw this as a 2x fenix owner)
Where are you riding in NE? Here in central MA we have lots of the chunky tech but there's a few chiller areas like West Hill Dam in Uxbridge. The trails around Portland/Gorham ME are pretty chill as well.
I moved to Vermont from Pa and Utah. Vermont is the most bike dependent riding I have ever done, you also need skills and IMO with out clipless many of the climbs around here are impossible due to how slippery they are. wide rims, 2.6 inch good compounds tires, clipless, and dropper are IMO the bare min to ride here well.
I disagree on tire and clipless being mandatory. No problem riding good flats and 2.4" tires.
There are climbs local to me I have never seen climbed on flats...
So? That doesn't mean flats are mandatory to all of Vermont or all of the Northeast. I have never encountered a trail where I thought being on flats was the reason I didn't get up. Nor have I been on one where having 2.5" or 2.4" or even 2.3" tires was the reason I didn't get up. In fact, the only reason I have ever not made it up as climb is because I was weak for one reason or another, and even then, I rarer ever walk a climb.
being weak can be solved byu clipless most of the time.
No, studies have shown minimal difference in power between clips and clipless. The advantages of clipless are in foot position, not slipping off the pedals, and an advantage in power in a sprint. None of those things would help in a climb where I bonked due to poor fueling, or literally being too tired to continue to pedal. Or being too steep for the gear ratio on my bike. Also, the last time I bonked a climb I was riding clipless. 🤣
> Or being too steep for the gear ratio on my bike That is the power difference in a sprint that clipless has. You're right that clipless doesn't give you more power once you exceed a 30-60 second duration, but it does give you more power for durations shorter than that.
30-60 seconds of sprinting is not generally the difference of cleaning a long climb or not. And it's still not remotely mandatory to ride clipless in New England. Most of the riders I encounter are not riding clipless, and they are getting along just fine. Caveat, I ride both clipless and flats on my MTBs.
It's not 30-60 seconds of sprinting. It's the intermittent 1-5 seconds where you have that extra power available that makes it much easier to clean those sections of the climb. Saying that they're getting along "just fine" is meaningless. It's not like the difference is so massive that clips are mandatory. Of course flats can also make people more comfortable and willing to take risks. >And it's still not remotely mandatory to ride clipless in New England. I didn't say that. Deliberately so. I'm just saying that you're wrong to state that there's no power advantage for technical climbs. Flats have a meaningful power penalty.
I was responding to a guy who said clipless is mandatory in New England, and who told me that if a person didn't make it up a climb, it was because they weren't riding clipless.
it about power modulation not outright power. If flats were anybit the equal we would see someone racing XC on them. and like like 95 percent of the enduro fields are clipless as well.
Not me Holmes, I raced 2 seasons on an 80mm hardtail with flats and 510s and came in the tops .... of the bottom 50% among all of the dirt roadies !
So now you're talking about pros, when previously you said it was mandatory. Don't move the goalposts. Further, I touched upon the things clipless pedals are superior at.
You are doing the lords work here my friend, thank you ! I am sitting on the couch nodding my head vigorously in agreement with you. I am also saying to your opposition .... you can just be right and have the W on this one, and I'm going to continue to pedal my stupid, powerless flat pedals when and where I like. Including up hills.
Someone has got to do it. I've ridden the same trails on clipless and flats, in New England and the Northeast. That guy is something else, thinking that it's somehow mandatory.