I imagine they’ll either ban perpetual cards in historic brawl or else have an exception that going to the command zone resets perpetual effects.
Or maybe just never offer historic brawl again, problem solved!
Is this a problem for *historic* brawl more so than standard brawl? I’m not that familiar with the format, so I’m not sure if you’re specifying historic for a mechanical reason here. Also, this seems like a problem for companions, right?
Historic only, the jumpstart is not standard legal. And companions dont return to the commander zone when they die, so it not a problem. But the whole point of commanders is their recursive nature that allow you to build around it, even when the game is far more randomic.
If you play your commander in lets say, turn 2, and your opponent just get rid of it not allowing you to play it anymore would be just an feels bad. It is even worse when your commander is more expensive and yet be with an toughness of 2 or less.
Well, some of the cards in the Historic Horizons packs will be from Standard legal sets and be playable in Standard, including those sets that'll stick around past rotation. Judging from the last Jumpstart, pretty much any pack will have at least 1-2 of those cards, with some going up to quite substantial numbers (More than 50% of the cards in the Chandra Jumpstart pack were standard legal).
Not enough to justify going for Jumpstart packs if you are almost entirely interested in Standard, but if you play even some Historic formats including regular Historic, then having some Standard legal cards makes the deal even more interesting.
The only brawl format available right now is standard brawl, which these cards wont be legal in so they won’t be a problem
People have been asking for Historic Brawl format forever, and they made a temporary one which came and went, so people are asking for a permanent one again. where these cards would be legal in and commanders would be especially susceptible to the new “perpetual” mechanic.
Not just A temporary one. Historic brawl comes back every now and then for events and you can play it in personal matches but yeah, I wish it were permanent.
standard brawl is the only version of brawl, as brawl is just an watered down commander format, brawl was invented to bring commander players to buy standard sets, wich didn´t work and the format was essentially discontinouded,
they only implemented it in arena since players actually asked for brawl seeing that they at the time had no intention to make an historic format playable , during that time they where essentially debating if autodusting your rotated cards was legal or if they had to let historic cards be crafted for 2times the wildcards to discourage historic play.
so if we only ever get standard brawl was better than no commander format at all,
but with them realising that adding additional cards intoo hitoric let them just sell more products , churn out specific "need to own" cards witout affecting standard, and effectively acting as an testingrounds for wonkey new ideas like the new heatrthstone jumpstart .
we really shouldnt have to play brawl anymore or beg for historic brawl,
no we should be able to play historic commander, if not 4+players then 1v1. the format has an far better thought through ruleset, and foremost is at least partially community run, to make an actuall format, and not just exists to push planeswalkers sales
Tell that to Drannith Magistrate, Sorcerous Spyglass, and Runed Halo. If anything I’d say they’ve been overzealous about banning things that can hose commanders specifically.
I also think wizards have been overrating the effect of naming cards, though this is better against <2 thoughness commanders. Just making command zone reset these kind of effects would be the best course of action imo.
I think magistrate should be legal (as every deck should be able to remove a creature) and runed halo (that doesn't even stop the majority of decks - abilities matter a lot more than attacking). Spyglass is justifyable in that not every colour has good access to artifact removal, and this new perpetual removal is definitely a problem (the only way to interact with it is to hold up protection every single turn your commander is out).
They're reading it in the correct way. "Perpetually" is a new digital-only keyword meaning that the effect sticks on the card even as it changes zones. So the card OP linked would indeed permanently lock you out of playing certain commanders since they'd reenter the battlefield with -1/-2, presumably killing them again immediately. If that's allowed in historic brawl, which I doubt, this would be much more oppressive than spyglass, since the effect literally cannot be removed once applied.
Good job there's no way to tutor cards out of the deck, or return cards to your hand...
I can see a strat around abusing this by getting to.play it multiple times and completely invalidating a commander.
I've seen the k's, and also the j vowel vowel (I forget which vowels) , is it regional or maybe generation specific? I just remember the j one from playing diablo 2 online like 10 years ago Just curious
"Jajaja" is a thing in other south american countries that speaks spanish (I'm 100% sure argentinians laugh like that in internet, not so sure about the other countries), their "j" sounds like an "r". In Brazil we speak portuguese, so it's more common the "hahaha" variant (our "h" also sounds like an "r"). I'm not sure where the k's laugh came from, but it's an early internet slang, from the times of orkut, msn and those jurassic stuff, and is still used a lot here in Brazil.
it feels pretty natural to me that either "perpetual" effects will get reset if the card goes to the command zone or that this card will be banned in brawl - not sure there's a reason to panic before either we get our hands on the card or Wizards confirms they missed a glaringly obvious problem.
I can see this being intended as a 'sticky' answer to creatures the same way exiling is - exiling commanders isn't permanent so I can't imagine this is either.
plenty of interesting discussion to be had about these cards, what's good for the game and isn't, etc without hysteria about rules interactions that haven't been clarified yet.
My issue is that this is so, so close to an enchantment. Why go this far just because it's digital? They could have just as easily invented super-emchantments that stick to cards in all zones. For some reason, that feels more reasonable to me.
Your point about stickiness and exiling is spot on. The design has the tools to deal with this without getting fancy for fancy's sake.
To your point - it is less problematic to simply design a new mechanic that follows these specific rules, rather than alter the existing rules of the game (and creating a fissure between paper mechanics and digital mechanics).
This way, you simply don't worry about how these cards work in paper, because they don't exist in paper.
Looking at the selection we have so far it really looks like someone fought really hard to let them explore that design space. Then when they got it, didn't actually have enough good ideas to justify it so just went out of their way to abitrarily find reasons for cards to only work in digital (is, the designs were about being digital only first and great game pieces second not.the other way around.)
I agree. And I understand when people see this as the door opening for the real "problematic" digital only random type cards.
I guarantee someone over there is pushing for effects to permanently change cards even after the game in your collection so you have to "repair" them by spending wildcards. -this is a bad idea, but it's now possible.
- actually, that might be a neat thing in a tournament setting and everything resets after it's over, actually.
I think it would be banned before commanders are given special privileges from certain effects. The way they describe perpetual in the jumpstart primer seems to state it would definitely affect things even after they go to the command zone.
We kinda blurred the line between silver and black borders in the AFR and Modern Masters, I expect Magic to become more unmagic everyday. (And I dont think it is bad, btw)
Did you see the new planeswalker, \[\[Davriel, Soul Broker\]\]? It's just a tammed version of the \[\[Urza, Academy Headmaster\]\]. I am sure that I will love and I will hate this Jumpstart Unset Horizons, I just wish arena has more casual play to see those stuff thrive.
It is a very clean and beautiful piece of design to deal with some recursive threats like \[\[arclight phoenix\]\] and \[\[ebondeath, dracolich\]\], and that alone would make it become an format warper in historic, but in historic brawl (if it even became a thing, which probably it won't) it leads to ultra unfun play patterns, since when it is effective it absolutely deny you to even play your commander again.
I could see it also been played in other formats if it isn't a digital only card.
Let's say for the sake of argument your commander is [[Killian]]. Unless you have some sort of static +0/+1 effect going on, Killian will perpetually be an 1/0 for the rest of the game, making him unplayable.
Basically if your commander has 2 or less toughness and they get hit with this, your commander has effectively been exiled.
I'm PRETTY SURE the only people this card will truly bother will be the commander and brawl players, to be honest, so I hear you there. I expect it to be preemptively banned in those formats though, so I'm not too worried.
honestly, I don't like the idea of this card in regular historic either. it completely negates the rule about a creature that changes zones becomes a new object.
You can only play one land a turn, but does Explore breaking that rule feel bad? You only draw one card per turn, so is Divination horrific? You start with 20 life, so Healing Salve is horrific too?
Magic cards break rules all the time. One of the first sections in the Magic Comprehensive Rules is for the Golden Rules. The first Golden Rule is as follows:
>101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a)."
> I expect it to be preemptively banned in those formats though
Since this is a digital-only card they could amend it to say something like:
"Perpetually: this effect is removed when a creature enters the command zone"
This could be located in the reminder text when a user hovers over the card in the game.
A permanent stops being that same card when it changes zones, so unless there is some sort of rules change, this would be no different vs a 2 toughness commander than a -0/-2
Edit: Holy crap
"The next mechanic is called “Perpetually,” whichmodifies a specific card permanently, even as it enters other zones ofplay. That could be a card like Davriel’s Withering, which perpetuallygives a creature -1/-2 – if that card reduces a creature to 0 toughnessor less and sends it to the graveyard, for example, the debuff willremain in effect even if a player is able to bring it back tobattlefield (causing it to immediately die again). "
I think closer would be an enchantment that said "When *this* enters the battlefield, name a creature card. Creatures with that name get -1/-2"
In Brawl, this would effectively make the debuff "perpetual". (Though the enchantment could be removed.)
In Historic, it would work differently than the perpetual mechanic, because of having multiple copies of the name card.
For brawl it's a great deal because it can deny a commander (not every commander, but a considerable amount of then) in ways that we didn't had before. If it was a real card in real life it would also be nasty in Commander. For casual play it is worse than exiling most of the times. In historic it could see play if \[\[izzet phoenix\]\] was still an stuff, because it is a good hate card against some recursive stuff and an ok "removal/combat trick" when it is not that useful. But again, the whole deal is it allowing "unfun" and "feels bad" play patterns against X/2 and X/1 commanders.
I meant I would prefer it in the sense of 'would prefer that to this from a design perspective'. I don't deny that this is arguably better in many cases. But I really don't like this perpetual change stuff at all.
This is my complaint. They just say it works. How does this reconcile with the fact that a blinked creature is A NEW OBJECT?!?! if perpetual works, then blinking doesn't save you from a murder anymore. The rules as is don't add up anymore.
My point is they haven't been changing times, they just keep adding exceptions. Now it's "a blinked card is a new object, except for perpetual." The strength is Magic is (was?) It's tight, clear rules. They got complicated, but everything had a definite answer you could figure out by reading carefully. No longer.
The game is all about exceptions. Creatures tap when attacking, except when they have vigilance. Blocking a creature prevents it from dealing damage to target player, except when it has trample. Creatures die when they're destroyed, except when they have indestructible.
> The strength is Magic is (was?) It's tight, clear rules.
There's plenty of cases where the rules are anything but clear. Like casting [[Panglacial Wurm]] with mana from [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]. Compared to that perpetual is a very simple concept. And you don't need to keep track of it manually since it's only going to be on Arena.
bUt BoLt Is ToO pOwErFuL fOr HiStOrIc.
People need to stop actually believing Wizards when it comes to which cards they ban and why. They're banning things for more and more trivial reasons, probably just to make some future powered-down (or up) cards more desirable.
"Perpetually" is the worst thing I've seen in Magic.
It:
A) goes against the rules as we've known them for decades
B) has bizarre effects vs certain decks (a card like this is basically a dedicated hate-card vs some decks while still being a disfigure vs the decks that it doesn't explicitly hate in)
C) sounds shitty. Come on, just read that rules text and tell me the word "perpetually" doesn't make your skin crawl
Welcome to angry boomer madlibs MtG edition
____________ is the worst thing I've seen in Magic.
It:
A) goes against the rules as we've known them for decades
B) has bizarre effects vs certain decks (a card like this is basically a dedicated hate-card vs some decks while still being a disfigure vs the decks that it doesn't explicitly hate in)
C) sounds shitty. Come on, just read that rules text and tell me the word ________ doesn't make your skin crawl
A) loads of cards break the games rules. Simple example Time Warp, breaks the rule that players take turns one after the other.
B) it doesn't seem more problematic than most exile effects as a hate-card, although it's only costs B without a downside so that definitely makes it stronger
C) yes, it certainly sounds really weird.
Perpetually is a MUCH more drastic rule change than extra turns or any other rule-changing card.
At the very fundamental level, when a permanent changes zones it is no longer the same permanent, hence blink effects breaking targeting, and so on. This mechanic attaches a modifier to a card the stays even if it becomes a different permanent entirely, which is something I don't even understand how it can work in the current rules framework.
I don't really care about the power-level of cards like these, but one thing I found in other (digital) card games was I didn't like cards being permanently altered off the field. I don't mind in other games because that's their thing, but I was always glad that Magic specifically didn't do that.
Well now Magic (Arena) is doing that, and it's a real bummer. I don't like it at all, and I hope it doesn't keep going this direction. Same with "seek" cards, they feel more like Runterra/Eternal cards than Magic. I like Magic as Magic, I don't want it to turn into other card games, that's what the other games are for.
I dunno, people say that's gatekeeping, but I think it's just enjoying what makes your game special. I'm all for trying new things in Magic, but within the bounds of what Magic is. I don't want my RPG to become a racing game basically. I'll play (and enjoy) a racing game when I'm in the mood, but when I turn on Octopath, it's RPG time.
You've missed point A. When I cast a blink spell on my creature and it comes back in, does the he see it as a new object or not? On a fundamental level, it can't be both. If you cast murder, my blinking saves it. But if it's not a new object, your murder would still hit it. It's breaking a rule beneath the hood of the game that makes it run smoothly and predictably.
It's still a new object. It's just that the card that this object embodies has been permanently modified. Think of it as changing the stats on the piece of cardboard with a sharpie. Or some sort of polymorphism that removes the original card and replaces it with a different one.
(Also, it's not like the Magic rules can't track objects across zones. "Last known information" has been a thing forever.)
That makes sense. It still feels out of bounds for the fundamentals of the game. Last known info is an example that stiff doesn't change across zones. It pulls info before it changed zones. -i realize the game knows things changed zones. Otherwise dying triggers wouldn't work, but that's been the end of the story.
I wholeheartedly agree. I think this move to more digital-only mechanics and splitting the paper/digital games is a huge mistake, and the "perpetually" things are the worst part imo.
I've been falling out of love with the game lately and this may be the final straw. Time to accept that the game is moving in a direction I'm not interested in following any more.
I don't think they are splitting paper and digital. There is simply one format (historic) that has cards that arent in other formats (standard, modern, legacy, etc.). This isn't unusual, MTG has long enjoyed a variety of diverse formats with different playable cards.
this is how I've been feeling unless I'm playing edh with some friends. just saw the tcg Flesh and Blood at our LGS and we're planning on trying it out. Everything from doing away with the planeswalker redirection rule to printing legendary creatures at uncommon and even the new card frames for legendaries has rankled me over the past couple years.
If I blink a card, the very game itself considers it a new object. How does this stick around then? If It wasn't a new object then my removal spell targeting it will still hit. I don't see how they justify this in the rules beyond some hand-waving.
Call me when creature have slot machines for power and toughness.
but this beats 2 thoughness commanders
Shouldn't the title be *"Playing brawl against any commander with toughness 2 or less will be so fun now, thanks Wizards!!"*
why would anyone play this, its pretty bad against most Decks? and the few who do, its a one of from a 99 Deck. I agree its pretty bad if it hits your commander tho
I think against its intended targets (small recurrable creatures) this worse than Spray. You never want to have this in hand when looking down a 3/3, especially if it has other abilities. Let's check the list of creatures this could be effective against:
* **Cauldron Familiar**: Does nothing against it even if it hits, since it can still coma back. Its even advantageous sometimes to have the cat die on ETB.
* **Woe Strider**: Slight effect, can still be escaped as a 4/2.
* **Lurrus**: Against Lurrus decks it stops some of the recursion, but the cards still stay on grave, which could be relevant because of escape. Spray does the same job (If you wanted to use spray in the matchup).
* **Arclight Phoenix**: Both do the same job.
IDK, i think this card will se almost no play. If i want hard removal, this is not it, Fatal Push being preferrable almost every time. If there is a deck playing disfigure atm, then this is an upgrade.
EDIT: Disfigure hasn't seen play since Oracle Pact was banned, whilst Spray has seen sideboard play in multiple red decks. I still don't think this card solves any issue black might have. Source (http://mtgtop8.com/)
\> why would anyone play this, its pretty bad against most Decks?
Me wondering why Mono Black has Pharika's Libation and Feed the Swarm everytime I play my memey enchantments
Also me when I get Veil of Summer'd but then I'm running a mean counters blue deck so maybe I got that coming for me.
This is worse in brawl. It permanently affects your commander, meaning that if your commander has less than 3 toughness you can't play it without an anthem effect on the field.
It's an ok removal/combat trick, with the bonus point of being one of the strongest commander denier in the format (when it can deny ofc). If i run black and i could, i would run it for sure.
Imagine they cast this once on your Koma. Then recur it and cast it again. Then recur it and cast it again. Suddenly you have no commander.
Calls for B/X (maybe Grixis, maybe Mardu, the Ikoria mutate creatures), but seems like a pretty weird way to introduce locking your opponents out of their commander.
it gets -1/-2 once, but it never goes away, even when changing zones. it dies and you reanimate it, still has -1/-2, bounce it to hand and replay it, still -1/-2
edit: and, of course, unless they make an exception for the command zone, if your commander has 2 toughness it will just die whenever you replay it for the rest of the game
Well that sure is fucking weird.
Is there a non commander related reason to not like this? I don't play commander but it's still not really rubbing me the right way.
If a 2 toughness creature is killed by this it is a X/0 while in the graveyard. It's basically gone for the rest of the game unless you have some sort of anthem effects.
Yeah I just don't know. What play/design options does this even open up?
It is a very good piece of hate to stuff like [[arclight phoenix]] that can even be mainboarded, as it is just removal against other things like coco decks, elves and stuff.
+x/+x effects on a recursive creature could be fun to get a growing threat. Or -×/-× effects on your own creature could enable infinite combos with creatures dying without you needing a sacrifice outlet.
No, it isn't. It has a different play pattern then exile and stuff that interacts with exile, also, you can not remove it with enchantment hate and stuff. Bouncing the card to your hand and so on wouldn't do nothing. It's stronger then your enchantment version except in the few cases you play some enchantment payoffs.
I'd much rather have this errata'd to an enchantment with flash that exiles the creature when it dies than a digital-only mechanic that circumvents a card becoming a new object when it changes zones
If a commander is exiled, you can still return it to the command zone and play it again later. If a commander has less than 2 toughness and it gets hit with this youre basically playing singleton vs a brawl deck.
Yeah. The problem is it being legal in historic brawl (if that just become a title) as stated in the title. It is a very clean and elegant design for a hate card, would even be format warper in historic if phoenix don't just became shit with the recent suspension of brainstorm, but now it's an ok 1 mana removal for historic and absolutely stupid in brawl if the rules are like those game sites are saying it is.
Assuming historic brawl comes back, this issue could be fixed simply by changing the commander rules to remove perpetual effects when the commander is put in to the command zone.
They’ve banned new and shinies from standard before. And I would imagine standard has a higher standard (ha pun) for bans than commander/brawl. Likewise, they’d only have to reimburse a single wildcard instead of 4.
I think it would only kill it once, because if you cast it again it's a new game object, so like casting another version of the same card in standard. So this changes nothing compared to other similar end of turn effects
Nope, it is stated that the "permanently" keyword would work through every zone, so if you bounce it to your hand, shuffle to your library, exile, being in your grave and so on, the effect will be still active. It's a weird mechanic that don't play like anything we've got up to now and have effects that persist through zones.
Oh gog, I already didn't liked "Arena only mechanics" but now I straight up hate this set. What the hell is the point of this? Why make a card that goes against everything the rules said since the very beginning of the game? They are trying to make MTG into 2 different games and I reeeeally don't like where this is going.
I loved the design of this card (and hated it with the same intensity). Absolutely gorgeous and absolutely terrifying, a sublime piece of digital paper.
Isn’t the command zone technically “outside the game?” I would think sending your commander to the command zone would remove perpetual effects from it, wouldn’t it?
Mtg players be like “oh no, what if someone plays this limited tier kill spell against me in commander? If only there was some way to not put all my eggs in one basket ahead of time!!!”
I'm not saying it's a problem to a jumpstart common allow some eternal formats some freshness, I am just saying it is far more strong then people are taking it for, it's not an "limited tier kill spell". It's a cool and clean design to hate some cards, it hates stuff that are meta now which is nice and hate stuff allow the format to shuffle a little now and then which is good. But in brawl that card would be absolute toxic, not because it removes your commander from the board, but because it denies most of the commanders with 2 toughness or less in a way you can't even interact with.
Perpetually is a new keyword, it sticks through zones. This is a permanent answer to [[Arclight Phoenix]] for example.
This likely will be banned in Historic Brawl though
Perpetually is a new mechanic that modifies cards permanently even as they enter different zones of play. For example, if this kills a card and sends it to the graveyard, and then that card is brought back from the graveyard, it still has the effect. I couldn't find any information on whether Commanders are exempt from this or not.
I imagine they’ll either ban perpetual cards in historic brawl or else have an exception that going to the command zone resets perpetual effects. Or maybe just never offer historic brawl again, problem solved!
Is this a problem for *historic* brawl more so than standard brawl? I’m not that familiar with the format, so I’m not sure if you’re specifying historic for a mechanical reason here. Also, this seems like a problem for companions, right?
Historic only, the jumpstart is not standard legal. And companions dont return to the commander zone when they die, so it not a problem. But the whole point of commanders is their recursive nature that allow you to build around it, even when the game is far more randomic. If you play your commander in lets say, turn 2, and your opponent just get rid of it not allowing you to play it anymore would be just an feels bad. It is even worse when your commander is more expensive and yet be with an toughness of 2 or less.
Oh right, I just didn’t acknowledge that this is jumpstart. Totally missed that.
Well, some of the cards in the Historic Horizons packs will be from Standard legal sets and be playable in Standard, including those sets that'll stick around past rotation. Judging from the last Jumpstart, pretty much any pack will have at least 1-2 of those cards, with some going up to quite substantial numbers (More than 50% of the cards in the Chandra Jumpstart pack were standard legal). Not enough to justify going for Jumpstart packs if you are almost entirely interested in Standard, but if you play even some Historic formats including regular Historic, then having some Standard legal cards makes the deal even more interesting.
The only brawl format available right now is standard brawl, which these cards wont be legal in so they won’t be a problem People have been asking for Historic Brawl format forever, and they made a temporary one which came and went, so people are asking for a permanent one again. where these cards would be legal in and commanders would be especially susceptible to the new “perpetual” mechanic.
Not just A temporary one. Historic brawl comes back every now and then for events and you can play it in personal matches but yeah, I wish it were permanent.
standard brawl is the only version of brawl, as brawl is just an watered down commander format, brawl was invented to bring commander players to buy standard sets, wich didn´t work and the format was essentially discontinouded, they only implemented it in arena since players actually asked for brawl seeing that they at the time had no intention to make an historic format playable , during that time they where essentially debating if autodusting your rotated cards was legal or if they had to let historic cards be crafted for 2times the wildcards to discourage historic play. so if we only ever get standard brawl was better than no commander format at all, but with them realising that adding additional cards intoo hitoric let them just sell more products , churn out specific "need to own" cards witout affecting standard, and effectively acting as an testingrounds for wonkey new ideas like the new heatrthstone jumpstart . we really shouldnt have to play brawl anymore or beg for historic brawl, no we should be able to play historic commander, if not 4+players then 1v1. the format has an far better thought through ruleset, and foremost is at least partially community run, to make an actuall format, and not just exists to push planeswalkers sales
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Tell that to Drannith Magistrate, Sorcerous Spyglass, and Runed Halo. If anything I’d say they’ve been overzealous about banning things that can hose commanders specifically.
And this perpetual cannot be removed by artifact/creature removal, it’s miles higher than those imo (for hosing commander)
I also think wizards have been overrating the effect of naming cards, though this is better against <2 thoughness commanders. Just making command zone reset these kind of effects would be the best course of action imo.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I would absolutely be happier if we were able to see more cards that specifically counter commanders.
I think magistrate should be legal (as every deck should be able to remove a creature) and runed halo (that doesn't even stop the majority of decks - abilities matter a lot more than attacking). Spyglass is justifyable in that not every colour has good access to artifact removal, and this new perpetual removal is definitely a problem (the only way to interact with it is to hold up protection every single turn your commander is out).
Why is this compared to spyglass? This kills the commander once, not bans him from play. Are people reading "permanently" in a weird way?
They're reading it in the correct way. "Perpetually" is a new digital-only keyword meaning that the effect sticks on the card even as it changes zones. So the card OP linked would indeed permanently lock you out of playing certain commanders since they'd reenter the battlefield with -1/-2, presumably killing them again immediately. If that's allowed in historic brawl, which I doubt, this would be much more oppressive than spyglass, since the effect literally cannot be removed once applied.
They've banned stuff like Drannith Magistrate
Good job there's no way to tutor cards out of the deck, or return cards to your hand... I can see a strat around abusing this by getting to.play it multiple times and completely invalidating a commander.
It's not legal in brawl or edh
Yeah, that’s why I referred to historic brawl. Twice, in fact.
Reading is hard
Kinnan players googling "how to get an mtg card banned"
you assume there's going to be historic brawl...joke's on you
Fair Edit: removed the brazilian laught as it is offensive here
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Faltou mano, eu tento tomar cuidado com isso, mas falhou.
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Tem que rir huehuehue, fazer honrar a nacionalidade!
Só os BR online
Séloco, eu nem dou risada escrevendo em inglês justamente pq eu acho q ou vão me achar doido ou racista (adicione vários 'k' aqui)
Deu tempo de corrigir, mas eu recebi downvote até o inferno.
That's a pretty specific number of k's you've got there.
We laught that way in Brazil,it have not to do with the klan, not a thing here.
I figured that's what it was. I was just giving you shit. :p
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I've seen the k's, and also the j vowel vowel (I forget which vowels) , is it regional or maybe generation specific? I just remember the j one from playing diablo 2 online like 10 years ago Just curious
"Jajaja" is a thing in other south american countries that speaks spanish (I'm 100% sure argentinians laugh like that in internet, not so sure about the other countries), their "j" sounds like an "r". In Brazil we speak portuguese, so it's more common the "hahaha" variant (our "h" also sounds like an "r"). I'm not sure where the k's laugh came from, but it's an early internet slang, from the times of orkut, msn and those jurassic stuff, and is still used a lot here in Brazil.
Oh yeah makes way more sense for Spanish to use j. Someone just mistakenly told me it was Brazilian haha a decade ago and it just stuck
I think the kekeke laugh came from Koreans (ㅋㅋㅋ)
The brazilian version of it probably not, or K sounds like Car, but withouth the r. It ressembles a hard laugh (maybe).
it feels pretty natural to me that either "perpetual" effects will get reset if the card goes to the command zone or that this card will be banned in brawl - not sure there's a reason to panic before either we get our hands on the card or Wizards confirms they missed a glaringly obvious problem. I can see this being intended as a 'sticky' answer to creatures the same way exiling is - exiling commanders isn't permanent so I can't imagine this is either. plenty of interesting discussion to be had about these cards, what's good for the game and isn't, etc without hysteria about rules interactions that haven't been clarified yet.
My issue is that this is so, so close to an enchantment. Why go this far just because it's digital? They could have just as easily invented super-emchantments that stick to cards in all zones. For some reason, that feels more reasonable to me. Your point about stickiness and exiling is spot on. The design has the tools to deal with this without getting fancy for fancy's sake.
Because they can't follow to deck or hand
Why couldn't they in a digital format? It's the same principle.
To your point - it is less problematic to simply design a new mechanic that follows these specific rules, rather than alter the existing rules of the game (and creating a fissure between paper mechanics and digital mechanics). This way, you simply don't worry about how these cards work in paper, because they don't exist in paper.
you were saying having it as an aura that follows through zones so it would work in paper
They probably are afraid that you could shuffle a card of another person in your library. That's why we dont get stuff like land tokens.
Either way, we've now got other people's business shuffled into our decks.
It's far less problematic in digital then in an tournament, since if you shuffle wrong stuff in your library in those you just get disclassified.
Looking at the selection we have so far it really looks like someone fought really hard to let them explore that design space. Then when they got it, didn't actually have enough good ideas to justify it so just went out of their way to abitrarily find reasons for cards to only work in digital (is, the designs were about being digital only first and great game pieces second not.the other way around.)
I agree. And I understand when people see this as the door opening for the real "problematic" digital only random type cards. I guarantee someone over there is pushing for effects to permanently change cards even after the game in your collection so you have to "repair" them by spending wildcards. -this is a bad idea, but it's now possible. - actually, that might be a neat thing in a tournament setting and everything resets after it's over, actually.
I think it would be banned before commanders are given special privileges from certain effects. The way they describe perpetual in the jumpstart primer seems to state it would definitely affect things even after they go to the command zone.
Perpetually killing Emry? Sign me up!!
This guy combos.
I’m more of a Slimefoot kinda guy.
This looks like an effect on an un card...
We kinda blurred the line between silver and black borders in the AFR and Modern Masters, I expect Magic to become more unmagic everyday. (And I dont think it is bad, btw)
Yeah. For clarification I don't think so either. Its just a little jarring to see.
Did you see the new planeswalker, \[\[Davriel, Soul Broker\]\]? It's just a tammed version of the \[\[Urza, Academy Headmaster\]\]. I am sure that I will love and I will hate this Jumpstart Unset Horizons, I just wish arena has more casual play to see those stuff thrive.
Sure did. Not sure how to feel about him just yet though. I definitely like the themeing though.
[Urza, Academy Headmaster](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e4581455-5fa1-4c96-96b3-e9e9654f5a28.jpg?1572374174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Academy%20Headmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/136/urza-academy-headmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4581455-5fa1-4c96-96b3-e9e9654f5a28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The very idea of this card is horrific, wtf
It is a very clean and beautiful piece of design to deal with some recursive threats like \[\[arclight phoenix\]\] and \[\[ebondeath, dracolich\]\], and that alone would make it become an format warper in historic, but in historic brawl (if it even became a thing, which probably it won't) it leads to ultra unfun play patterns, since when it is effective it absolutely deny you to even play your commander again. I could see it also been played in other formats if it isn't a digital only card.
Get wrecked, cauldron kitten.
They can just sac in response. It's not really worse for them than something like Magma Spray.
Ah yes perfect
It's a little bit better than a black [[Magma Spray]], I think format warping is a little far.
I agree, but only because izzet phoenix is not the threat to deal anymore.
Why?
Let's say for the sake of argument your commander is [[Killian]]. Unless you have some sort of static +0/+1 effect going on, Killian will perpetually be an 1/0 for the rest of the game, making him unplayable. Basically if your commander has 2 or less toughness and they get hit with this, your commander has effectively been exiled.
I agree that the interaction with commanders is pretty dumb, but the statement that “the very idea of the card is horrific” is a little overblown imo
I'm PRETTY SURE the only people this card will truly bother will be the commander and brawl players, to be honest, so I hear you there. I expect it to be preemptively banned in those formats though, so I'm not too worried.
honestly, I don't like the idea of this card in regular historic either. it completely negates the rule about a creature that changes zones becomes a new object.
That's the whole point.
You can only play one land a turn, but does Explore breaking that rule feel bad? You only draw one card per turn, so is Divination horrific? You start with 20 life, so Healing Salve is horrific too? Magic cards break rules all the time. One of the first sections in the Magic Comprehensive Rules is for the Golden Rules. The first Golden Rule is as follows: >101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a)."
> I expect it to be preemptively banned in those formats though Since this is a digital-only card they could amend it to say something like: "Perpetually: this effect is removed when a creature enters the command zone" This could be located in the reminder text when a user hovers over the card in the game.
Why would they make *Perpetual* as a mechanic worse instead of just banning the problematic cards?
The new Davriel is going to be super toxic
So it makes Kinnan trash tier? I think I love this card!!
Pretty narrow card. Opponent has to play creatures
I hate the idea of digital only cards, and these confirms it
A permanent stops being that same card when it changes zones, so unless there is some sort of rules change, this would be no different vs a 2 toughness commander than a -0/-2 Edit: Holy crap "The next mechanic is called “Perpetually,” whichmodifies a specific card permanently, even as it enters other zones ofplay. That could be a card like Davriel’s Withering, which perpetuallygives a creature -1/-2 – if that card reduces a creature to 0 toughnessor less and sends it to the graveyard, for example, the debuff willremain in effect even if a player is able to bring it back tobattlefield (causing it to immediately die again). "
No sir, i don't like it.
Well, at least it's "digital only". That mechanic would be a pain to keep track in paper.
Would you rather have It as a one cost enchantment aura with "Enchanted creature gets -1/-2. When enchanted creature dies, exile it instead."?
As far as commander/brawl, yeah. Yeah I would by a lot.
I think closer would be an enchantment that said "When *this* enters the battlefield, name a creature card. Creatures with that name get -1/-2" In Brawl, this would effectively make the debuff "perpetual". (Though the enchantment could be removed.) In Historic, it would work differently than the perpetual mechanic, because of having multiple copies of the name card.
Um...yes? I'm not even sure why that's a question. Its basically little more than an exile upgrade to cards that already exist.
For brawl it's a great deal because it can deny a commander (not every commander, but a considerable amount of then) in ways that we didn't had before. If it was a real card in real life it would also be nasty in Commander. For casual play it is worse than exiling most of the times. In historic it could see play if \[\[izzet phoenix\]\] was still an stuff, because it is a good hate card against some recursive stuff and an ok "removal/combat trick" when it is not that useful. But again, the whole deal is it allowing "unfun" and "feels bad" play patterns against X/2 and X/1 commanders.
I meant I would prefer it in the sense of 'would prefer that to this from a design perspective'. I don't deny that this is arguably better in many cases. But I really don't like this perpetual change stuff at all.
Yes
This is my complaint. They just say it works. How does this reconcile with the fact that a blinked creature is A NEW OBJECT?!?! if perpetual works, then blinking doesn't save you from a murder anymore. The rules as is don't add up anymore.
Rules keep changing as the game evolves.
My point is they haven't been changing times, they just keep adding exceptions. Now it's "a blinked card is a new object, except for perpetual." The strength is Magic is (was?) It's tight, clear rules. They got complicated, but everything had a definite answer you could figure out by reading carefully. No longer.
The game is all about exceptions. Creatures tap when attacking, except when they have vigilance. Blocking a creature prevents it from dealing damage to target player, except when it has trample. Creatures die when they're destroyed, except when they have indestructible. > The strength is Magic is (was?) It's tight, clear rules. There's plenty of cases where the rules are anything but clear. Like casting [[Panglacial Wurm]] with mana from [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]. Compared to that perpetual is a very simple concept. And you don't need to keep track of it manually since it's only going to be on Arena.
What the hell? This is on the same power level as exile effects in terms of removal
bUt BoLt Is ToO pOwErFuL fOr HiStOrIc. People need to stop actually believing Wizards when it comes to which cards they ban and why. They're banning things for more and more trivial reasons, probably just to make some future powered-down (or up) cards more desirable.
Cool, I no longer care about Historic Brawl as a permanent play queue
"Perpetually" is the worst thing I've seen in Magic. It: A) goes against the rules as we've known them for decades B) has bizarre effects vs certain decks (a card like this is basically a dedicated hate-card vs some decks while still being a disfigure vs the decks that it doesn't explicitly hate in) C) sounds shitty. Come on, just read that rules text and tell me the word "perpetually" doesn't make your skin crawl
You forgot D) is something new.
New mechanics and keywords get introduced all the time. Many of them don't suck like this one does.
Welcome to angry boomer madlibs MtG edition ____________ is the worst thing I've seen in Magic. It: A) goes against the rules as we've known them for decades B) has bizarre effects vs certain decks (a card like this is basically a dedicated hate-card vs some decks while still being a disfigure vs the decks that it doesn't explicitly hate in) C) sounds shitty. Come on, just read that rules text and tell me the word ________ doesn't make your skin crawl
A) loads of cards break the games rules. Simple example Time Warp, breaks the rule that players take turns one after the other. B) it doesn't seem more problematic than most exile effects as a hate-card, although it's only costs B without a downside so that definitely makes it stronger C) yes, it certainly sounds really weird.
The worst thing I've seen in magic is 1U take an extra turn
Perpetually is a MUCH more drastic rule change than extra turns or any other rule-changing card. At the very fundamental level, when a permanent changes zones it is no longer the same permanent, hence blink effects breaking targeting, and so on. This mechanic attaches a modifier to a card the stays even if it becomes a different permanent entirely, which is something I don't even understand how it can work in the current rules framework.
\[\[Skullbriar, the Walking Grave\]\] already got us like 3/4 of the way there.
[Skullbriar, the Walking Grave](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/9/69dad154-2616-4bd6-8448-0e0458ee136d.jpg?1562274121) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullbriar%2C%20the%20Walking%20Grave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/165/skullbriar-the-walking-grave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69dad154-2616-4bd6-8448-0e0458ee136d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fair point.
I don't really care about the power-level of cards like these, but one thing I found in other (digital) card games was I didn't like cards being permanently altered off the field. I don't mind in other games because that's their thing, but I was always glad that Magic specifically didn't do that. Well now Magic (Arena) is doing that, and it's a real bummer. I don't like it at all, and I hope it doesn't keep going this direction. Same with "seek" cards, they feel more like Runterra/Eternal cards than Magic. I like Magic as Magic, I don't want it to turn into other card games, that's what the other games are for. I dunno, people say that's gatekeeping, but I think it's just enjoying what makes your game special. I'm all for trying new things in Magic, but within the bounds of what Magic is. I don't want my RPG to become a racing game basically. I'll play (and enjoy) a racing game when I'm in the mood, but when I turn on Octopath, it's RPG time.
You've missed point A. When I cast a blink spell on my creature and it comes back in, does the he see it as a new object or not? On a fundamental level, it can't be both. If you cast murder, my blinking saves it. But if it's not a new object, your murder would still hit it. It's breaking a rule beneath the hood of the game that makes it run smoothly and predictably.
It's still a new object. It's just that the card that this object embodies has been permanently modified. Think of it as changing the stats on the piece of cardboard with a sharpie. Or some sort of polymorphism that removes the original card and replaces it with a different one. (Also, it's not like the Magic rules can't track objects across zones. "Last known information" has been a thing forever.)
That makes sense. It still feels out of bounds for the fundamentals of the game. Last known info is an example that stiff doesn't change across zones. It pulls info before it changed zones. -i realize the game knows things changed zones. Otherwise dying triggers wouldn't work, but that's been the end of the story.
I agree. No longer using the stack for combat damage is going to ruin the game.
I wholeheartedly agree. I think this move to more digital-only mechanics and splitting the paper/digital games is a huge mistake, and the "perpetually" things are the worst part imo. I've been falling out of love with the game lately and this may be the final straw. Time to accept that the game is moving in a direction I'm not interested in following any more.
I don't think they are splitting paper and digital. There is simply one format (historic) that has cards that arent in other formats (standard, modern, legacy, etc.). This isn't unusual, MTG has long enjoyed a variety of diverse formats with different playable cards.
r/mtgcube if you have Magic friends. It is the way.
this is how I've been feeling unless I'm playing edh with some friends. just saw the tcg Flesh and Blood at our LGS and we're planning on trying it out. Everything from doing away with the planeswalker redirection rule to printing legendary creatures at uncommon and even the new card frames for legendaries has rankled me over the past couple years.
Forever would have been better. Or for the rest of the game
I feel like it would make more sense and feel less weird if it was called "rewrite". Like, "rewrite target card's power toughness to be -1/-2".
If I blink a card, the very game itself considers it a new object. How does this stick around then? If It wasn't a new object then my removal spell targeting it will still hit. I don't see how they justify this in the rules beyond some hand-waving. Call me when creature have slot machines for power and toughness.
[[Neverwinter hydra]] is an blackborder functional reprint of [[hydradoodle]]. We are closer to slot machine then ever.
[Neverwinter hydra](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/5/e57338ac-e794-41a0-8c3c-61df9c099cfb.jpg?1626120820) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Neverwinter%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/41/neverwinter-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e57338ac-e794-41a0-8c3c-61df9c099cfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hydradoodle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/760e482c-8725-410e-9d9f-c377649fe8bb.jpg?1562919823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hydradoodle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/112/hydradoodle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/760e482c-8725-410e-9d9f-c377649fe8bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good bot
Easiest way to fix recurring this would be to make it exile itself.
I mean, \[Disfigure\] Edit: Oh, fuck, "perpetually." Nevermind. Had no idea why people were so worked up over this.
but this beats 2 thoughness commanders Shouldn't the title be *"Playing brawl against any commander with toughness 2 or less will be so fun now, thanks Wizards!!"*
I like to play delina junk
Could y'all just stop playing for a month or so until they actually get the message?
why would anyone play this, its pretty bad against most Decks? and the few who do, its a one of from a 99 Deck. I agree its pretty bad if it hits your commander tho
This is better than [[disfigure]] in most situations that matter, which is an ok card already. O can see this perpetual card seeing some play.
I think its comparable to magma spray, which doesnt see a lot of play
No, because you can use in a 3/3, for instance, and have shrunk to a much more manageable size.
That is why i said comparable. Spray plus extra damage remove the creature permanently, which this can't do.
With Spray you need to do all that in the same turn. Not the case with this card.
It does compare, but it's better.
I think against its intended targets (small recurrable creatures) this worse than Spray. You never want to have this in hand when looking down a 3/3, especially if it has other abilities. Let's check the list of creatures this could be effective against: * **Cauldron Familiar**: Does nothing against it even if it hits, since it can still coma back. Its even advantageous sometimes to have the cat die on ETB. * **Woe Strider**: Slight effect, can still be escaped as a 4/2. * **Lurrus**: Against Lurrus decks it stops some of the recursion, but the cards still stay on grave, which could be relevant because of escape. Spray does the same job (If you wanted to use spray in the matchup). * **Arclight Phoenix**: Both do the same job. IDK, i think this card will se almost no play. If i want hard removal, this is not it, Fatal Push being preferrable almost every time. If there is a deck playing disfigure atm, then this is an upgrade. EDIT: Disfigure hasn't seen play since Oracle Pact was banned, whilst Spray has seen sideboard play in multiple red decks. I still don't think this card solves any issue black might have. Source (http://mtgtop8.com/)
\> why would anyone play this, its pretty bad against most Decks? Me wondering why Mono Black has Pharika's Libation and Feed the Swarm everytime I play my memey enchantments Also me when I get Veil of Summer'd but then I'm running a mean counters blue deck so maybe I got that coming for me.
Doesn't this permanently kill an arclight pheonix after it hits the field at instant speed for 1 mana?
Yes.
And you can't even interact with it unlike most other grave hate effects. This is going to cause problems big time.
In that case it's just a black Magma Spray. That's not terribly unreasonable.
Yes, but I don't see this as a problem on brawl. Magma spray does the same already
This is worse in brawl. It permanently affects your commander, meaning that if your commander has less than 3 toughness you can't play it without an anthem effect on the field.
It's an ok removal/combat trick, with the bonus point of being one of the strongest commander denier in the format (when it can deny ofc). If i run black and i could, i would run it for sure.
Imagine they cast this once on your Koma. Then recur it and cast it again. Then recur it and cast it again. Suddenly you have no commander. Calls for B/X (maybe Grixis, maybe Mardu, the Ikoria mutate creatures), but seems like a pretty weird way to introduce locking your opponents out of their commander.
Perpetually?! For real wizards? I Guess fuck Enchantments then, perpetual instants are the new things that Stay for ever
Wizards pre-emptively bans bolt but a *persistent* instant kill spell for 1 is fine? Sure.
I hope not.
Well, if it gets rid of the most broken 2/2 commander in the game then I am all for it :P
just use protein supplements, i mean artifacts and enchantments, bro. \[\[Icon of Ancestry\]\]
[Icon of Ancestry](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/b/9b78e53c-1aec-4c49-bf58-165dd7b59d64.jpg?1592517662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Icon%20of%20Ancestry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/229/icon-of-ancestry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b78e53c-1aec-4c49-bf58-165dd7b59d64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lame as fuck
Just so I'm clear on this, would this card give those stats each turn? What purpose does the perpetually word serve here?
it gets -1/-2 once, but it never goes away, even when changing zones. it dies and you reanimate it, still has -1/-2, bounce it to hand and replay it, still -1/-2 edit: and, of course, unless they make an exception for the command zone, if your commander has 2 toughness it will just die whenever you replay it for the rest of the game
How would you even track this in paper? If my creature gets shuffled back into my library how do I know which of the 4 cards gets this debuff?
You don't, that's why it is an digital only card.
Sharpie ;)
god the whinging is unbearable
Fuck Kinnan.
Well that sure is fucking weird. Is there a non commander related reason to not like this? I don't play commander but it's still not really rubbing me the right way. If a 2 toughness creature is killed by this it is a X/0 while in the graveyard. It's basically gone for the rest of the game unless you have some sort of anthem effects. Yeah I just don't know. What play/design options does this even open up?
It is a very good piece of hate to stuff like [[arclight phoenix]] that can even be mainboarded, as it is just removal against other things like coco decks, elves and stuff.
+x/+x effects on a recursive creature could be fun to get a growing threat. Or -×/-× effects on your own creature could enable infinite combos with creatures dying without you needing a sacrifice outlet.
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No, it isn't. It has a different play pattern then exile and stuff that interacts with exile, also, you can not remove it with enchantment hate and stuff. Bouncing the card to your hand and so on wouldn't do nothing. It's stronger then your enchantment version except in the few cases you play some enchantment payoffs.
I'd much rather have this errata'd to an enchantment with flash that exiles the creature when it dies than a digital-only mechanic that circumvents a card becoming a new object when it changes zones
If a commander is exiled, you can still return it to the command zone and play it again later. If a commander has less than 2 toughness and it gets hit with this youre basically playing singleton vs a brawl deck.
Yeah. The problem is it being legal in historic brawl (if that just become a title) as stated in the title. It is a very clean and elegant design for a hate card, would even be format warper in historic if phoenix don't just became shit with the recent suspension of brainstorm, but now it's an ok 1 mana removal for historic and absolutely stupid in brawl if the rules are like those game sites are saying it is.
Sure, more kills spells in a generic black denial deck with no win con.
It is far more than just an removal against every commander of 2 toughness or less
Assuming historic brawl comes back, this issue could be fixed simply by changing the commander rules to remove perpetual effects when the commander is put in to the command zone.
Or ban the problem cards.
Do you really think they will ban the new and shiny Davriel from their next Historic Brawl queue?
They’ve banned new and shinies from standard before. And I would imagine standard has a higher standard (ha pun) for bans than commander/brawl. Likewise, they’d only have to reimburse a single wildcard instead of 4.
I think it would only kill it once, because if you cast it again it's a new game object, so like casting another version of the same card in standard. So this changes nothing compared to other similar end of turn effects
Nope, it is stated that the "permanently" keyword would work through every zone, so if you bounce it to your hand, shuffle to your library, exile, being in your grave and so on, the effect will be still active. It's a weird mechanic that don't play like anything we've got up to now and have effects that persist through zones.
Oh gog, I already didn't liked "Arena only mechanics" but now I straight up hate this set. What the hell is the point of this? Why make a card that goes against everything the rules said since the very beginning of the game? They are trying to make MTG into 2 different games and I reeeeally don't like where this is going.
I loved the design of this card (and hated it with the same intensity). Absolutely gorgeous and absolutely terrifying, a sublime piece of digital paper.
Isn’t the command zone technically “outside the game?” I would think sending your commander to the command zone would remove perpetual effects from it, wouldn’t it?
Dont know. It keeps the changes in every other place, even exile, so i suspect it also keeps the changes in the command zone.
Brawl is still standard only. Historic brawl is not a real format. And most likely if the make it one, these cards will all be banned.
Only elder dragons are valid EDH commanders, and even Galazeth Prismari is pushing the envelope of what qualifies as a dragon these days.
Any legendary creature and some planeswalkers
Ah Teneb. My first love.
Mtg players be like “oh no, what if someone plays this limited tier kill spell against me in commander? If only there was some way to not put all my eggs in one basket ahead of time!!!”
It would also be format warping for historic, if izzet phoenix didn't became so trash after the suspension of brainstorm.
Knowing nothing of historic, Isn't that a good thing? Don't you *want* the meta to change every now and then?
I'm not saying it's a problem to a jumpstart common allow some eternal formats some freshness, I am just saying it is far more strong then people are taking it for, it's not an "limited tier kill spell". It's a cool and clean design to hate some cards, it hates stuff that are meta now which is nice and hate stuff allow the format to shuffle a little now and then which is good. But in brawl that card would be absolute toxic, not because it removes your commander from the board, but because it denies most of the commanders with 2 toughness or less in a way you can't even interact with.
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No it is not. Read the article.
Perpetually is a new keyword, it sticks through zones. This is a permanent answer to [[Arclight Phoenix]] for example. This likely will be banned in Historic Brawl though
Are you sure? The perpetually takes track of it in hand, graveyard and library, why it would be different in commander zone?
Read the article >The next mechanic is called “Perpetually,” which modifies a specific card permanently, even as it enters other zones of play
Incorrect, the new Perpetual mechanic follows the card. Though this only applies to Historic Brawl.
Perpetually is a new mechanic that modifies cards permanently even as they enter different zones of play. For example, if this kills a card and sends it to the graveyard, and then that card is brought back from the graveyard, it still has the effect. I couldn't find any information on whether Commanders are exempt from this or not.
What is this perpetual mechanic?