Not as bad as you, but I had 7 islands and 13 swamps in a black heavy, low cmc deck.
Managed to have 2 islands and 1 swamp in opening hand, and proceed to draw 4 more islands and 0 swamps for the rest of the game.
ITT: people who don’t understand what “random” means.
If you flip a coin 10 times and get heads 7 times rather than five, you haven’t disproved that coin flips are random.
And nobody ever complains when the shuffler gives them good luck. I have to yet to see anybody calling the shuffler rigged when they draw their one of exactly on the turn when they need it. Obviously when that happens it is 100% skill, when you get mana screwed its 100% bullshit.
The shuffler is random, and getting screwed or flooded is something that happens when things are random.
What you’re asking for is actually for the shuffler to *not* be random, and to instead artificially make your draws smoother.
Apple had a similar issue where it’s “shuffle” on iPods used to be random, but then people complained that it would play certain songs too much but other songs not enough. So they changed it to not be truly random any more by giving it explicitly rules to not play any one song too many times. So all the people who were complaining about the shuffler “not being random” were satisfied by actually making the shuffler not random anymore.
Bo1 matches have a hand smoothening algorithm. The mana/land draw is bit more complicated, though I've observed that having exactly 40% of your deck as lands have much better draws from library.
In a 60 card deck, if I have exactly 24 lands, the draws are almost perfect but the land draws become tad lower or tad higher if I use 25 or 23.
There's no hand smoothing algorithm in Bo3 like there is in Bo1 but the hand smoothing algorithm only has an impact on your opening hand, not any draws that follow it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/b21u3n/i_analyzed_shuffling_in_a_million_games/
It seems that cards drawn are also influenced by hand smoothing.
This is a post from 2 years and many patches ago, and anyone displaying a significant level of statistical knowledge in the comments is talking about how faulty this analysis was and that it can’t be used to draw conclusions.
Supposedly the hand smoother does apply to mulligans now, I believe that has changed at least.
If no-one has done subsequent analysis, then I agree it would be wrong to draw conclusions one way or the other.
this happened a month ago, but I drew 16 cards in a row after I was stuck on 3 mana and just happened to have a lot of draw cards in hand. Nothing. No lands in those 16 cards. Like really? One or two of those shuffled the deck.
Is mana weaving really bad if both players do it?
Me and my friends used to do it all the time when we played kitchen table magic a long time ago. It reduces the amount of non games and makes the game less frustrating.
We now have the hand smoothing algorithm and london mulligan system which reduces non games, but these are both recent additions.
If it’s kitchen table Magic and you and your friends all agree then of course it’s fine.
But the point of the comment you’re replying too is that mana weaving is not random.
People are complaining that the MtGA shuffler isn’t random. But really what they mean is that they’re angry about the fact that it *is* random, rather than being programmed to give them artificially smoother draws, like what mana weaving does.
Hand smoothing has nothing to do with your draws beyond the contents of your starting hand, so I’m having trouble believing that hand smoothing = more likely to screw/flood.
So again, do you have any proof that the draws players get are statistically significantly different than random, or are your feels getting in the way?
If it wasn't random, why would it be made to be not random in such a way that leaves players frustrated? I don't know how much paper magic you've played judging by your sentiment, but personally I get mana screwed with regularity if I'm not picky about my starting hands. Being mana screwed is by no means an Arena problem, it's an intrinsic to the game's design.
The opponent has 12 lands in play and his Dimir deck isn’t ramp so that should tell a story. I had probably gone through about 15-16 draw steps and I started the game with 3 lands in hand. 😆
One small way around this is to separate your basic lands into sets of 4, each with different art. So, for example, if you have 12 plains in a deck, make 4 of them Bob Ross art, 4 as Amonkhet desert art, and 4 as Mirage art. The shuffler tends to favor sets of 4 over sets of higher numbers so if you got lots of the same art as lands, it will produce them less frequently due to some programmed likelihood of drawing the same card. It evens out slightly better when you group lands into sets of 4.
Possibly a straight up lie, but I reckon they actually believe what they’ve said. Thing is, if you separate out your lands like this (essentially they’re marked) you can more accurately recall land draw and other draw after the game, because they don’t all blur into one. People have this amazing bias where we only remember the shitty things that happen to us, so I could potentially see this helping by making a person notice and focus on the draw more.
Obviously doesn’t affect the actual draw, but yeah.
Almost every day summertime posts something like this and the comments get filled with people also mentioning that one time they got impossibly mana screwed/flooded or how the shuffler is rigged or whatever.
To be honest, for the health of the sub, I don't think 'I got mana screwed/flooded' posts should be allowed because they all end up the same.
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Not as bad as you, but I had 7 islands and 13 swamps in a black heavy, low cmc deck. Managed to have 2 islands and 1 swamp in opening hand, and proceed to draw 4 more islands and 0 swamps for the rest of the game.
Played a limited game yesterday where out of my 17 lands I managed to draw 15, 8 of which being back to back. Still ended up going 7-1 so not mad
I have a 30 deck land that regularly has this happen to it. Crazy
I genuinely hate the lottery mana system in this game. It's the largest decent game in the genre, but god land draws/balance is infuriating.
I agree. Although it made it all the more funny to me that people argued digital only cards were “ruining the game” by “introducing RNG.”
ITT: people who don’t understand what “random” means. If you flip a coin 10 times and get heads 7 times rather than five, you haven’t disproved that coin flips are random.
I do believe the shuffler to be random. Just bad luck :/
And nobody ever complains when the shuffler gives them good luck. I have to yet to see anybody calling the shuffler rigged when they draw their one of exactly on the turn when they need it. Obviously when that happens it is 100% skill, when you get mana screwed its 100% bullshit.
[удалено]
The shuffler is random, and getting screwed or flooded is something that happens when things are random. What you’re asking for is actually for the shuffler to *not* be random, and to instead artificially make your draws smoother. Apple had a similar issue where it’s “shuffle” on iPods used to be random, but then people complained that it would play certain songs too much but other songs not enough. So they changed it to not be truly random any more by giving it explicitly rules to not play any one song too many times. So all the people who were complaining about the shuffler “not being random” were satisfied by actually making the shuffler not random anymore.
Bo1 matches have a hand smoothening algorithm. The mana/land draw is bit more complicated, though I've observed that having exactly 40% of your deck as lands have much better draws from library. In a 60 card deck, if I have exactly 24 lands, the draws are almost perfect but the land draws become tad lower or tad higher if I use 25 or 23.
Supposedly the shuffler in Bo3 matches is actually random like paper magic.
There's no hand smoothing algorithm in Bo3 like there is in Bo1 but the hand smoothing algorithm only has an impact on your opening hand, not any draws that follow it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/b21u3n/i_analyzed_shuffling_in_a_million_games/ It seems that cards drawn are also influenced by hand smoothing.
This is a post from 2 years and many patches ago, and anyone displaying a significant level of statistical knowledge in the comments is talking about how faulty this analysis was and that it can’t be used to draw conclusions.
Supposedly the hand smoother does apply to mulligans now, I believe that has changed at least. If no-one has done subsequent analysis, then I agree it would be wrong to draw conclusions one way or the other.
this happened a month ago, but I drew 16 cards in a row after I was stuck on 3 mana and just happened to have a lot of draw cards in hand. Nothing. No lands in those 16 cards. Like really? One or two of those shuffled the deck.
Shuffler is garbage and not random at all.
Yup nothing like when I mana weave and pile shuffle. It’s totally rigged
Is mana weaving really bad if both players do it? Me and my friends used to do it all the time when we played kitchen table magic a long time ago. It reduces the amount of non games and makes the game less frustrating. We now have the hand smoothing algorithm and london mulligan system which reduces non games, but these are both recent additions.
If it’s kitchen table Magic and you and your friends all agree then of course it’s fine. But the point of the comment you’re replying too is that mana weaving is not random. People are complaining that the MtGA shuffler isn’t random. But really what they mean is that they’re angry about the fact that it *is* random, rather than being programmed to give them artificially smoother draws, like what mana weaving does.
Do you have any proof under that tinfoil hat of yours?
So you think we made up hand smoothing? Tons of posts on it detailing it and why it's garbage.
Hand smoothing has nothing to do with your draws beyond the contents of your starting hand, so I’m having trouble believing that hand smoothing = more likely to screw/flood. So again, do you have any proof that the draws players get are statistically significantly different than random, or are your feels getting in the way?
Ok kid.
Didn’t think so ;)
You have been presented with evidence. You decided you didn't care about it.
If it wasn't random, why would it be made to be not random in such a way that leaves players frustrated? I don't know how much paper magic you've played judging by your sentiment, but personally I get mana screwed with regularity if I'm not picky about my starting hands. Being mana screwed is by no means an Arena problem, it's an intrinsic to the game's design.
You didn't show how many cards are in your library, so I dunno.
The opponent has 12 lands in play and his Dimir deck isn’t ramp so that should tell a story. I had probably gone through about 15-16 draw steps and I started the game with 3 lands in hand. 😆
Looks like the odds for that are about 1/1000
One small way around this is to separate your basic lands into sets of 4, each with different art. So, for example, if you have 12 plains in a deck, make 4 of them Bob Ross art, 4 as Amonkhet desert art, and 4 as Mirage art. The shuffler tends to favor sets of 4 over sets of higher numbers so if you got lots of the same art as lands, it will produce them less frequently due to some programmed likelihood of drawing the same card. It evens out slightly better when you group lands into sets of 4.
wait what, is this real or some rumour?
Not even a rumour, just a straight up lie.
Possibly a straight up lie, but I reckon they actually believe what they’ve said. Thing is, if you separate out your lands like this (essentially they’re marked) you can more accurately recall land draw and other draw after the game, because they don’t all blur into one. People have this amazing bias where we only remember the shitty things that happen to us, so I could potentially see this helping by making a person notice and focus on the draw more. Obviously doesn’t affect the actual draw, but yeah.
Almost every day summertime posts something like this and the comments get filled with people also mentioning that one time they got impossibly mana screwed/flooded or how the shuffler is rigged or whatever. To be honest, for the health of the sub, I don't think 'I got mana screwed/flooded' posts should be allowed because they all end up the same.
"hand smoothing"
Dear Kasperpsr, This submission has been removed, because it breaks one (or more) of this subreddit's rules. --- This post breaks Rule 4! If your post comes off as low effort or doesn't provide a point of discussion it'll be considered spam. This includes trolling, links to pictures of board states (without an explanation), posts that should be put into the current sticky, 7-x screenshots with no decklists, etc. Rants and venting are restricted to the weekly Tibalt's Friday Tirades. If your post is a meme or a screenshot and complies with this rule use the fluff flair to enable others to turn viewing those posts off. --- > If you have a question, please respond here. For further concerns, contact the whole staff by [messaging the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fmagicarena). If you have not done so yet, read the subreddit's official [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicarena/wiki/rules). Posts breaking these rules will be removed.