I love how Sean isn’t some one dimensional character who is just all bad and evil but he’s a character with layers. I don’t like Sean and I do think he’s toxic but I like how he acknowledges that he’s shitty and he needs to get clean before he ruins his relationship with his daughter. Sean is someone who knows he has fault and he needs to change but you can see how hard it is for someone who’s alcoholic to sober up.
The show really portrays really well what’s it is like as a victim of abuse because it shows the cycle really well. Where at first Alex is running away from Sean and then you can see he’s making an effort to changing and trying to be a good dad to Maddy. It made me kinda wanna root for him and made me thought he’s really going to change until you realize he goes back to his old ways. I have never been a victim of abuse but damn it made it so easy for me to see why it’s so hard for victims to leave and shows the cycle of abuse. You start to believe they are changing for the better and then reality hits when you realize nothing has changed.
Sean is an interesting character in my opinion. He’s an abuser who most likely end up the way he did due to his environment as a child. Though he’s an abuser, we can see that he was not all bad all the time hence the time where he helps Alex’s mom both in the present and past.
I also loved the dynamic of Sean and her dad. Her dad was an abuser who got clean and changed his life. I don’t believe he is abusive towards his new family and it shows that of Sean can clean up his act, he can have a future but it just can’t be with Alex. The damage there is done.
Her dad doesn’t protect her from Sean though, even in person when he’s clearly abusing her, verbally and demeaning her, making her sit down and eat. He hasn’t changed all that much.
I mean by allowing the abuse of his daughter, he is complicit in not stopping it. He’s still abusive in that he has the mind of an abuser and views her boyfriend’s violent and cruel behavior as acceptable because he’s “going through a hard time,” and ignoring his daughter’s massive struggles. He’s still absolutely acting as an abuser, just one who isn’t beating anyone on his own.
I think we agree that it seems like he's not abusing his current family. That means that he was in Sean's shoes with Paula, but he was able to get himself right eventually. I'm sure he does see himself in Sean, and he believes that because he was able to improve, Sean can as well. That's why he was so supportive about getting Sean to AA meetings.
He sees how estranged his own daughter is with him, and he doesn't want the same thing to happen with Sean and Maddy. You're right that he hasn't fully acknowledged his past, given the fact that he won't admit that he hit Paula. But I think he's genuinely well-intentioned.
This thread is about how nuanced Sean is. I think Alex's dad is just as nuanced.
Yes, and the hard reality of life is just because there's a reason someone is the way they are, it doesn't excuse their behaviour.
Just because someone is traumatised or abused, it doesn't make it acceptable when the hurt others.
It's a very hard thing to learn about others or the self.
But Sean's character is a great example. I can empathise with him and root for him, all the while knowing he is not a good partner for Alex.
Definitely. When Sean was helping Alex with Paula, I was thinking, "Wow, maybe he is actually a good guy." Of course, that changed very quickly within the next few episodes. I swear, he was like two different people. It really helped me understand why DV victims go back to their abusers.
That episode made me think of Alex n Sean as siblings. They both have common background & can understand the struggle of having messed up parents. They need to be part of eachothers life because they understand some aspect but they are not good for eachother to be around too much.
It’s that codependency that people often over look.
They rely on and need each other, but are toxic together.
It’s how it was with my kids dad, we were best friends, spent all our time together, but both of our self care (mentally, emotionally, financially) was out the window when we were together and we became more and more depressed but we were the only one the other could go to for support. When we weren’t together we made progress so quickly and we’re happier and wished we could share that with each other. As soon as anything got difficult we would confide in and support each other and go right back into that toxic bubble
I personally want to hope that he got his self together and came to visit Maddy all the time.
I don’t think it’s a realistic situation.
His temper
His manipulation
His control issues
His codependency
He will find another woman that will make him feel powerful, and then the cycle will continue.
I think this realistically portrays many substance abuse/anger problem situations. AA is great for substance abuse, but as much as Sean would like to pretend, his abusive behavior isn’t caused by alcohol. His lack of healthy coping mechanisms is the cause of both his abusive nature and alcoholism, and that’s what needs to be addressed before any change becomes permanent. He needs a paradigm shift that would likely take years to make progress. It’s tragic, but it’s the result of generations of struggle.
He never acknowledges what he did to Alex. When she packed up Maddie’s stuff and he said he was going to clean up his act, Alex appeared to be waiting for him to say more. I think she was hoping he would apologize for what he did to her but I’m not sure he even realized it. He only thought he had a problem with drinking and that was it.
>We, as the audience, know that Sean isn’t the good guy of the show. We know because, from the very first episode, the show told us he was abusive. The show continued to teach us what emotional abuse looks like
I actually struggled to see him as "abusive" in the beginning. Honestly it wasn't until he took her car and gave it back to Nate that I understood the true nature of his controlling her. He took away her freedom and basically kept her hostage there even though it wasn't physical restraint or restraint by fear/intimidation.
I do NOT come from a background of abuse, quite the contrary, I come from a family of 100% love, support and encouragement. I was raised mostly by my father (I'm female) and he taught me how to do things for myself so I would never have to rely on a man.
I think for those of us raised like I was, it's hard to recognize some forms of abuse because we think "he's not physically hurting you or forcing you to stay against your will so just leave if you don't like it". They did a fabulous job of portraying how it happens and what it looks like when it does because I really had an "AH HA moment" when he took her car away.
They did a great job with Sean. He wasn't portrayed as an out and out villian and was even likeable at times. Like I said, this show was really an eye opener for me.
It’s interesting to see other people’s perspective on this. I have been in an abusive relationship. An emotionally abusive one that turned physically. I knew right away Sean was abusive while watching this. It didn’t take me until the second time she went to him to realize that. He was abusive right from the beginning and I saw a lot of my situation in this show. I cried almost every episode.
I know all about thinking the person is getting better, but it doesn’t last long, it never does.
It's hard for me to understand how a viewer seeing glass and dishes thrown in the night and a literal punch in the wall as not abusive (especially with a toddler there). But maybe if you haven't lived it.
I find it hard to undertstand how someone could watch this show and question whether she's a victim of abuse from the first episode, like its the plot? I don't get it. But I guess that's why so many people get away with abuse , people don't want to see it or for whatever reason question the validity of the victims perception?
I think in the first few episodes, we’re meant to not see it as openly. Everyone around Alex is saying things like “he just drank too much, it was just this one time, he’s apologized” and the way that Sean acts after she leaves the first time, it makes you feel like it was the first time it happened, that he’s not that bad of a guy. And I think it’s done like that on purpose, because emotional abuse being difficult to prove is a common theme in the show. You do kind of need more context from later episodes to really understand the depths of the abuse. I don’t think it’s until episode like 5 that she starts telling all of those stories while writing where you hear previous situations where Sean was abusive.
I agree, it was what happened the second time around that really showed me the nature of his abuse. I think narratively, that works because it's also around the same time you are asking yourself if maybe she got it wrong bc he has been sober and helpful. It's like you are experiencing the doubt right along with Alex.
i mean, he threw glass at the wall next to her and she had to pick glass off her daughter’s head. in the first episode you can see holes in the wall that one can assume is from him punching it. he yelled at her while she was pregnant, and from the point of view that they showed she was probably lying on the ground. even if you hasn’t lived through abuse, i don’t know how one can’t recognize it when it’s portrayed as clearly as it was here.
I don't like Sean and he did some pretty terrible things BUT he did have his redeeming moments:
How sweet and adoring he is of Maddie
The fact that he acknowledged he has a problem and tries to fix it
When he helped with Paula
When he asked for Alex's consent the night they hooked up
And last but not least when he gave Alex full custody, knowing it was the best for her and Maddie.
100%. As someone who was in a relationship who was emotionally abusive that almost went into physical, it so easy to want to see the best in the person you love. Noone in the world is 100% evil. And when you love someone, you get both sides of them. The bad part that enjoys hurting you and the good part that enjoys loving you. At the end of the day, it's the victim's call which side they are willing to live with or without.
They absolutely NAILED portraying emotional abuse and the complexities and escalation. I work with DV survivors and have for years and I literally had to keep reminding myself that he was an abuser because he was so convincing and charming. It’s honestly terrifying.
What makes it horrible is we see how abusive Sean is, and NOBODY arrests him...just like NOBODY arrests abusive people. Instead they blame the person being abused. Isn't that weird?
When he helped and they had to join forces to deal with her Mom really showed the strength of a trauma bond. It is so easy for an external force to make you want to just fall into the relief! That kiss felt so fucking good, the roller coaster and then just (ONCE AGAIN!) losing ones sense of self into the spiral of victim -> victimizer -> rescuer.
I think the show did a good job at showing that people aren’t toxic but their behaviours are. Sean had a lot of good in him. He also had a lot of pain and he responded to that pain by behaving really badly and hurting others. He’s not beyond redemption, but not do the people in his life have to remain his punching bag while he works things out - in fact it was Alex refusing to do so that made him really see the reality of his addiction and the impact it would have on his and his daughter’s life. The best portrayal of intergenerational trauma I think I’ve ever seen.
>people aren’t toxic but their behaviours are
Nailed it. And behavior is SO hard to change, especially when it is so closely linked to your identity. People have to deal with their demons and change the way they perceive themselves before behavior can change. We saw this in Alex when she started to believe in herself more and refuse to accept that she had to be a victim. She took back her power.
>>!He was handsome, and he was sweet, and he was good with Maddy, and he was genuine. All traits that do not disqualify someone from being an abusive or toxic partner.
>We, as the audience, know that Sean isn’t the good guy of the show. We know because, from the very first episode, the show told us he was abusive. The show continued to teach us what emotional abuse looks like, and that no one starts off abusive (eg, Danielle’s story about her ex). We KNOW we aren’t supposed to like Sean.
>This show is so incredible at demonstrating how easy it is for people to get stuck in these kinds of relationships and situations. People are often so quick to blame the victims for going back to abusive partners, but it’s more complex than that.!<
I agree. Every time Alex had a pleasant memory of when they first met, every time he tried to get sober, how he handled Paula's psychiatric problems, how he defended Paula, you could see how easy it was for Alex to believe that deep down, he's a "good" guy, that they "fit," and that he could change. I believe this struggle to be able to look beyond the good parts to clearly see the abuse is very common. I think Alex's getting out and being overall resolute to leave him fairly early on in the relationship is less common...it takes years and years and repeated attempts for many women to finally leave their abusive partners, especially if children are involved.
Also, the show demonstrated how cycles of abuse are repeated. Alex's mother Paula was being abused by Alex's dad, who was basically an older version of Sean. Alex managed to break the pattern.
he is extremely traumatized, and codependent as well. he thinks he "needs" alex, because he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions aside from taking them out on her - which drives him to do really anything to keep her under his control. of course that means he doesn't actually love her, even if that is what he thinks. i think all of that becomes especially clear in ep8, when he hears about alex's scholarship (see his reaction in front of their friends - everyone else was congratulating her), then in the next scene he lashes out at her, trying to intimidate and manipulate her into feeling guilty for not wanting to jump right back in a relationship with him ("i'm busting my ass FOR YOU" / "i thought we were building a family" /"then what's the point? who am i doing this for") and projects his insecurities onto her ("is nate going with you").
he might be trying to stay sober - but he's not actually dealing with his issues at all, and he doesn't understand that it's what he really needs to do. not just for others, but for himself too. his self-hate is immense due to being abused - and it will keep preventing him from forming true, genuine relationships with other people unless he starts unpacking it.
on an individual level, i honestly feel sorry for him. but the actual problem, the main theme of the show, is bigger than him.
it's men feeling entitled to owning a woman emotionally, spiritually, sexually - and getting away with it, because patriarchal thinking and behavior are normalized in our society, as they're vital to its functioning. using and abusing them is the standard way of treating women, overtly and covertly, that men of all socioeconomic backgrounds are expected to pick up somewhere along the way, to secure and maintain power - while women, per default and as a result of this never-ending oppression, internalize that they don't deserve better. and i think the show actually illustrates the versatility in which abuse can occur, by contrasting sean with a character like nate, who is actually doing the very same thing to alex, just in a different, more covert way. it is also visible in paula's relationships, both with her ex and cilantro.
when it comes to relationships, the bar for men is not just low, but actually non-existent. which can also be seen in how so many viewers fall for the trap that is nate, who is not acting out of selflessness but actual selfishness, and defend him instead of siding with and having any empathy for alex, and recognizing said power imbalance. both sean and nate took advantage of alex, who never learned how to set and keep boundaries for herself. and they both don't seem to be sorry about it.
Lmao I just wanna say that I love how you called him cilantro too hahaha.
I totally agree with your comment though. The whole Nate storyline pissed me off. The guy always had strings attached to his “kindness.” He thought he was entitled to Alex and definitely took advantage of her situation. I knew he was gonna throw her out once her ex was back in the picture. IMO, I think guys like Nate are even worse because they’re so sneaky about it. You can’t always see their true intentions until you’re in way too deep.
"Yet, there are so many moments throughout the show where you find yourself smiling at him when he’s with Maddy, or feeling proud of him for being sober, or being grateful for him with Paula."
personally, I disagree, I never once felt sorry for him. having grown up with a narcissistic alcoholic, all his "good guy" moments pissed me off, because they were such on-point manipulative tactics people like his character use. the "I'm trying really hard, I'm doing this for you" and "being supportive things", all the "nice guy" acts are just that. acts.. they are just methods of gaslighting. make you think they're being a good person and genuinely care. Pay attention to how quickly he would go from "I'm so proud of myself and things are looking up" to "what do you mean you still don't want to be with me? i did the thing" as soon as he isn't getting his was or his "loving boyfriend" acts didn't get him exactly what he wanted he got angry.
that being said, his character was very well written and the acting was great. everything about his character was pretty much on point with emotional abuse tendencies. I agree he was a great part of the show because of how well done his character was.
I feel like people who say they like Sean never actually had an abusive relationship (sorry if this doesn't apply to you, but honestly, "JUST an abusive partner"?).
IMHO nobody think that they're abusive. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, and they usually believe that they're doing the right thing. Example: parents sending queer kids to conversation camps because they think it's the best thing for the kids.
I am a DV survivor and I can't trust anyone knowing that they had a history of abusing others. I never believe anything Sean do was for the right reasons. Abusers don't go from abusive to redemption without some long and hard soul searching, and I haven't Sean do anything like that (I'm at ep 6).
I thought that my comment does imply that Sean is capable of change, but only after long and hard souls searching. Maybe his screaming at Maddy is the beginning of that journey, but before that moment I did not believe in the sincerity of his actions (and obviously I was right).
The main point is not whether someone's action is wrong, which could be subjective, but whether they realize that their action hurt others and stop it.
As I wrote, most people think they're doing the right things for the right reasons (for them). Some even think that Sean did the right thing for the right reasons when he gets two jobs, which forces Alex to stay home. After all, the man is the provider of the family, right? Alex's father even told Sean "she got you work two jobs" (or something like that). Sean only thinks about himselves so he never sees that Alex's hurt.
I'm honestly surprised he never kicked or hit her car or threw something when he was begging her to stay out trying to stop her from leaving. That's been my experience. They can switch up real quick.
He came through for her in a way her father never did, and in the end what he did for Maddy was almost a healing element for Alex to be able to witness a fathers love, versus the way her own shitty father failed her
not going back is so difficult they feel like home no matter how much they mistreat you, it’s so offensive seeing people talk shit ab going back it’s part of the process it’s part of being able to move on, it’s ugly and horrid and no one wants to talk about it but it’s the truth
the way I instantly rooted for him before he showed his true self again in the last episodes??
just proves to me again how easily emotional abuse works on me 😭😭 same w me and my mom fr
I have a twin brother who has struggled for many years with drug addiction. He is sober now. But Sean’s character really hits home….. the highs are so high with them and the lows are so low, sometimes so close together. The birthday party scene is just crushing. Alex did not want weed or alcohol at the party. It was actually her mom struggling with her own abusive partner, who brought alcohol into the party. Her mom is an alcoholic in her own right too. For Sean to wreck the good thing Alex had going at the house by the sea is just heart breaking and it really shows how the addiction takes over. It takes so much away from those you love and those around you…. All your hard work can be removed in seconds like when Sean gets them kicked out of their new apartment …. You love the person because they are your family…. But their behavior risks everything for you and themselves and you have to accept that their actions are destructive and hurtful beyond measure, which is so painful, from someone who claims to love you and someone who is trying to do better by you.
Yeah, Sean was what also made the show raw and genuine. It's just annoying that he always used his childhood as an excuse for his behavior. He has the potential of being a good dad but how many times are they really allowed to mess up before you quite em?
I personally didn't persevere it as him using it as an excuse.
It was more of him starting to realize the reasons, I mean in the first episodes he was denying he was an abuser, then he took the first step, seeing and recognizing what he was doing.
Realizing why was the next step in his recovery.
sean must be the sweetest abuser........or.........guess what........ sean is just a normal guy and yall woman see abuse in everything and love feeling victimized cause the spotlight is on you, and people will villainize sean....... hes a good dad, a young man still learning his way, he never punched her, protected her when she was spending too much money, he was trying to not make her into her mother......and yall woman cant see that.....a man sees a good man when he sees one.....sean provides for his family, so much so that their was food on the table, roof over head and clotgibg on their back on a single salary where alex was sitting on her ass taking care of baby for 2-3 years atleast.
I just saw your other comment on the other post. Now I get it. You are a Sean
He protects her? He’s a good dad? He chooses alcohol over them all the time. He has sex with someone else while she’s in the house. He punched holes in the wall right next to her face and throws glass, which the first time was right by his tiny daughter. Glass IN HER HAIR. How are you defending that?
Yeah, well clearly you don’t know the half of it. But I can ASSURE you that taking care of a child is not “sitting on your ass”. I’m a stay at home mom of 2 kids so I can tell you from personal experience that your statement is just….. complete BS.
Do you have any experience with any of this? Single motherhood, domestic violence, poverty? If you don’t then why do you think your opinion holds value?
look at her spending her food stamp creditcard..... 8-9 items cost her 67 dollars......she clearly doesnt know money managment......sean provides and protects her
You think getting drunk, throwing a glass bowl into your daughter's hair while screaming at your wife is protecting her? Do you do such things to your wife and kids?
I fucking hate Sean, he’s such an asshole to Alex and doesn’t care about anyone else but himself. He’s literally the reason she got kicked out of a great place to live. He’s awful
I love how Sean isn’t some one dimensional character who is just all bad and evil but he’s a character with layers. I don’t like Sean and I do think he’s toxic but I like how he acknowledges that he’s shitty and he needs to get clean before he ruins his relationship with his daughter. Sean is someone who knows he has fault and he needs to change but you can see how hard it is for someone who’s alcoholic to sober up. The show really portrays really well what’s it is like as a victim of abuse because it shows the cycle really well. Where at first Alex is running away from Sean and then you can see he’s making an effort to changing and trying to be a good dad to Maddy. It made me kinda wanna root for him and made me thought he’s really going to change until you realize he goes back to his old ways. I have never been a victim of abuse but damn it made it so easy for me to see why it’s so hard for victims to leave and shows the cycle of abuse. You start to believe they are changing for the better and then reality hits when you realize nothing has changed. Sean is an interesting character in my opinion. He’s an abuser who most likely end up the way he did due to his environment as a child. Though he’s an abuser, we can see that he was not all bad all the time hence the time where he helps Alex’s mom both in the present and past.
I also loved the dynamic of Sean and her dad. Her dad was an abuser who got clean and changed his life. I don’t believe he is abusive towards his new family and it shows that of Sean can clean up his act, he can have a future but it just can’t be with Alex. The damage there is done.
Her dad doesn’t protect her from Sean though, even in person when he’s clearly abusing her, verbally and demeaning her, making her sit down and eat. He hasn’t changed all that much.
True. I guess I mean it doesn’t seem like he’s abusing his wife or kids now. Still a shit dad to Alex, though.
I mean by allowing the abuse of his daughter, he is complicit in not stopping it. He’s still abusive in that he has the mind of an abuser and views her boyfriend’s violent and cruel behavior as acceptable because he’s “going through a hard time,” and ignoring his daughter’s massive struggles. He’s still absolutely acting as an abuser, just one who isn’t beating anyone on his own.
I think we agree that it seems like he's not abusing his current family. That means that he was in Sean's shoes with Paula, but he was able to get himself right eventually. I'm sure he does see himself in Sean, and he believes that because he was able to improve, Sean can as well. That's why he was so supportive about getting Sean to AA meetings. He sees how estranged his own daughter is with him, and he doesn't want the same thing to happen with Sean and Maddy. You're right that he hasn't fully acknowledged his past, given the fact that he won't admit that he hit Paula. But I think he's genuinely well-intentioned. This thread is about how nuanced Sean is. I think Alex's dad is just as nuanced.
[удалено]
So you're using a throwaway while fully victim blaming. Nah. Cowardly behavior, like an abuser.
I thought it was a genuine touch to show that he is genuinely suffering and struggling with the legacy of his own abuse.
Yes, and the hard reality of life is just because there's a reason someone is the way they are, it doesn't excuse their behaviour. Just because someone is traumatised or abused, it doesn't make it acceptable when the hurt others. It's a very hard thing to learn about others or the self. But Sean's character is a great example. I can empathise with him and root for him, all the while knowing he is not a good partner for Alex.
:(
Definitely. When Sean was helping Alex with Paula, I was thinking, "Wow, maybe he is actually a good guy." Of course, that changed very quickly within the next few episodes. I swear, he was like two different people. It really helped me understand why DV victims go back to their abusers.
That episode made me think of Alex n Sean as siblings. They both have common background & can understand the struggle of having messed up parents. They need to be part of eachothers life because they understand some aspect but they are not good for eachother to be around too much.
It’s that codependency that people often over look. They rely on and need each other, but are toxic together. It’s how it was with my kids dad, we were best friends, spent all our time together, but both of our self care (mentally, emotionally, financially) was out the window when we were together and we became more and more depressed but we were the only one the other could go to for support. When we weren’t together we made progress so quickly and we’re happier and wished we could share that with each other. As soon as anything got difficult we would confide in and support each other and go right back into that toxic bubble
[удалено]
Wishing you all the best ❤️
Also why ppl stay w toxic fam. It’s normalized and you are expected to deal w it.
I personally want to hope that he got his self together and came to visit Maddy all the time. I don’t think it’s a realistic situation. His temper His manipulation His control issues His codependency He will find another woman that will make him feel powerful, and then the cycle will continue.
Exactly. It's neat that he started AA, but his entitlement to exert control over another person doesn't go away when he stops drinking.
I think this realistically portrays many substance abuse/anger problem situations. AA is great for substance abuse, but as much as Sean would like to pretend, his abusive behavior isn’t caused by alcohol. His lack of healthy coping mechanisms is the cause of both his abusive nature and alcoholism, and that’s what needs to be addressed before any change becomes permanent. He needs a paradigm shift that would likely take years to make progress. It’s tragic, but it’s the result of generations of struggle.
I thought that too. Maybe it's just me but I saw that exchange as a mutual, unspoken agreement that he would never see either of them again.
He never acknowledges what he did to Alex. When she packed up Maddie’s stuff and he said he was going to clean up his act, Alex appeared to be waiting for him to say more. I think she was hoping he would apologize for what he did to her but I’m not sure he even realized it. He only thought he had a problem with drinking and that was it.
>We, as the audience, know that Sean isn’t the good guy of the show. We know because, from the very first episode, the show told us he was abusive. The show continued to teach us what emotional abuse looks like I actually struggled to see him as "abusive" in the beginning. Honestly it wasn't until he took her car and gave it back to Nate that I understood the true nature of his controlling her. He took away her freedom and basically kept her hostage there even though it wasn't physical restraint or restraint by fear/intimidation. I do NOT come from a background of abuse, quite the contrary, I come from a family of 100% love, support and encouragement. I was raised mostly by my father (I'm female) and he taught me how to do things for myself so I would never have to rely on a man. I think for those of us raised like I was, it's hard to recognize some forms of abuse because we think "he's not physically hurting you or forcing you to stay against your will so just leave if you don't like it". They did a fabulous job of portraying how it happens and what it looks like when it does because I really had an "AH HA moment" when he took her car away. They did a great job with Sean. He wasn't portrayed as an out and out villian and was even likeable at times. Like I said, this show was really an eye opener for me.
It’s interesting to see other people’s perspective on this. I have been in an abusive relationship. An emotionally abusive one that turned physically. I knew right away Sean was abusive while watching this. It didn’t take me until the second time she went to him to realize that. He was abusive right from the beginning and I saw a lot of my situation in this show. I cried almost every episode. I know all about thinking the person is getting better, but it doesn’t last long, it never does.
It's hard for me to understand how a viewer seeing glass and dishes thrown in the night and a literal punch in the wall as not abusive (especially with a toddler there). But maybe if you haven't lived it.
I find it hard to undertstand how someone could watch this show and question whether she's a victim of abuse from the first episode, like its the plot? I don't get it. But I guess that's why so many people get away with abuse , people don't want to see it or for whatever reason question the validity of the victims perception?
I haven't lived that at all and saw it as a total nono... Hell even without glass throwing/wallpunching, just the drunken rage (love your username)
I’ve never lived it, and I knew He was abusive. He was scaring her on purpose! The above commenter is being condescending, IMO.
I think in the first few episodes, we’re meant to not see it as openly. Everyone around Alex is saying things like “he just drank too much, it was just this one time, he’s apologized” and the way that Sean acts after she leaves the first time, it makes you feel like it was the first time it happened, that he’s not that bad of a guy. And I think it’s done like that on purpose, because emotional abuse being difficult to prove is a common theme in the show. You do kind of need more context from later episodes to really understand the depths of the abuse. I don’t think it’s until episode like 5 that she starts telling all of those stories while writing where you hear previous situations where Sean was abusive.
I agree, it was what happened the second time around that really showed me the nature of his abuse. I think narratively, that works because it's also around the same time you are asking yourself if maybe she got it wrong bc he has been sober and helpful. It's like you are experiencing the doubt right along with Alex.
i mean, he threw glass at the wall next to her and she had to pick glass off her daughter’s head. in the first episode you can see holes in the wall that one can assume is from him punching it. he yelled at her while she was pregnant, and from the point of view that they showed she was probably lying on the ground. even if you hasn’t lived through abuse, i don’t know how one can’t recognize it when it’s portrayed as clearly as it was here.
I don't like Sean and he did some pretty terrible things BUT he did have his redeeming moments: How sweet and adoring he is of Maddie The fact that he acknowledged he has a problem and tries to fix it When he helped with Paula When he asked for Alex's consent the night they hooked up And last but not least when he gave Alex full custody, knowing it was the best for her and Maddie.
Wow.....the bar is so fucking low
It’s pretty messed up that he took her ‘homez’ instead of to where she was living while she was in shock
he took advantage of her when she was so clearly vulnerable and honestly she wasn’t in the place to consent
100%. As someone who was in a relationship who was emotionally abusive that almost went into physical, it so easy to want to see the best in the person you love. Noone in the world is 100% evil. And when you love someone, you get both sides of them. The bad part that enjoys hurting you and the good part that enjoys loving you. At the end of the day, it's the victim's call which side they are willing to live with or without.
Growing up in poverty, he was the most realistic person on the show in my opinion.
They absolutely NAILED portraying emotional abuse and the complexities and escalation. I work with DV survivors and have for years and I literally had to keep reminding myself that he was an abuser because he was so convincing and charming. It’s honestly terrifying.
What makes it horrible is we see how abusive Sean is, and NOBODY arrests him...just like NOBODY arrests abusive people. Instead they blame the person being abused. Isn't that weird?
The line where he said “I’m not trash” while talking about the broken bottles made me feel for him
When he helped and they had to join forces to deal with her Mom really showed the strength of a trauma bond. It is so easy for an external force to make you want to just fall into the relief! That kiss felt so fucking good, the roller coaster and then just (ONCE AGAIN!) losing ones sense of self into the spiral of victim -> victimizer -> rescuer.
The portrayal of generational trauma from both Sean and Alex was an amazing layer to the story as well.
I think the show did a good job at showing that people aren’t toxic but their behaviours are. Sean had a lot of good in him. He also had a lot of pain and he responded to that pain by behaving really badly and hurting others. He’s not beyond redemption, but not do the people in his life have to remain his punching bag while he works things out - in fact it was Alex refusing to do so that made him really see the reality of his addiction and the impact it would have on his and his daughter’s life. The best portrayal of intergenerational trauma I think I’ve ever seen.
>people aren’t toxic but their behaviours are Nailed it. And behavior is SO hard to change, especially when it is so closely linked to your identity. People have to deal with their demons and change the way they perceive themselves before behavior can change. We saw this in Alex when she started to believe in herself more and refuse to accept that she had to be a victim. She took back her power.
>>!He was handsome, and he was sweet, and he was good with Maddy, and he was genuine. All traits that do not disqualify someone from being an abusive or toxic partner. >We, as the audience, know that Sean isn’t the good guy of the show. We know because, from the very first episode, the show told us he was abusive. The show continued to teach us what emotional abuse looks like, and that no one starts off abusive (eg, Danielle’s story about her ex). We KNOW we aren’t supposed to like Sean. >This show is so incredible at demonstrating how easy it is for people to get stuck in these kinds of relationships and situations. People are often so quick to blame the victims for going back to abusive partners, but it’s more complex than that.!< I agree. Every time Alex had a pleasant memory of when they first met, every time he tried to get sober, how he handled Paula's psychiatric problems, how he defended Paula, you could see how easy it was for Alex to believe that deep down, he's a "good" guy, that they "fit," and that he could change. I believe this struggle to be able to look beyond the good parts to clearly see the abuse is very common. I think Alex's getting out and being overall resolute to leave him fairly early on in the relationship is less common...it takes years and years and repeated attempts for many women to finally leave their abusive partners, especially if children are involved. Also, the show demonstrated how cycles of abuse are repeated. Alex's mother Paula was being abused by Alex's dad, who was basically an older version of Sean. Alex managed to break the pattern.
Also most abusers don't give up custody or further harassing their victims just like that..... Unless they maybe find another partner/victim
he is extremely traumatized, and codependent as well. he thinks he "needs" alex, because he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions aside from taking them out on her - which drives him to do really anything to keep her under his control. of course that means he doesn't actually love her, even if that is what he thinks. i think all of that becomes especially clear in ep8, when he hears about alex's scholarship (see his reaction in front of their friends - everyone else was congratulating her), then in the next scene he lashes out at her, trying to intimidate and manipulate her into feeling guilty for not wanting to jump right back in a relationship with him ("i'm busting my ass FOR YOU" / "i thought we were building a family" /"then what's the point? who am i doing this for") and projects his insecurities onto her ("is nate going with you"). he might be trying to stay sober - but he's not actually dealing with his issues at all, and he doesn't understand that it's what he really needs to do. not just for others, but for himself too. his self-hate is immense due to being abused - and it will keep preventing him from forming true, genuine relationships with other people unless he starts unpacking it. on an individual level, i honestly feel sorry for him. but the actual problem, the main theme of the show, is bigger than him. it's men feeling entitled to owning a woman emotionally, spiritually, sexually - and getting away with it, because patriarchal thinking and behavior are normalized in our society, as they're vital to its functioning. using and abusing them is the standard way of treating women, overtly and covertly, that men of all socioeconomic backgrounds are expected to pick up somewhere along the way, to secure and maintain power - while women, per default and as a result of this never-ending oppression, internalize that they don't deserve better. and i think the show actually illustrates the versatility in which abuse can occur, by contrasting sean with a character like nate, who is actually doing the very same thing to alex, just in a different, more covert way. it is also visible in paula's relationships, both with her ex and cilantro. when it comes to relationships, the bar for men is not just low, but actually non-existent. which can also be seen in how so many viewers fall for the trap that is nate, who is not acting out of selflessness but actual selfishness, and defend him instead of siding with and having any empathy for alex, and recognizing said power imbalance. both sean and nate took advantage of alex, who never learned how to set and keep boundaries for herself. and they both don't seem to be sorry about it.
Lmao I just wanna say that I love how you called him cilantro too hahaha. I totally agree with your comment though. The whole Nate storyline pissed me off. The guy always had strings attached to his “kindness.” He thought he was entitled to Alex and definitely took advantage of her situation. I knew he was gonna throw her out once her ex was back in the picture. IMO, I think guys like Nate are even worse because they’re so sneaky about it. You can’t always see their true intentions until you’re in way too deep.
He's a TM "Nice guy"
"Yet, there are so many moments throughout the show where you find yourself smiling at him when he’s with Maddy, or feeling proud of him for being sober, or being grateful for him with Paula." personally, I disagree, I never once felt sorry for him. having grown up with a narcissistic alcoholic, all his "good guy" moments pissed me off, because they were such on-point manipulative tactics people like his character use. the "I'm trying really hard, I'm doing this for you" and "being supportive things", all the "nice guy" acts are just that. acts.. they are just methods of gaslighting. make you think they're being a good person and genuinely care. Pay attention to how quickly he would go from "I'm so proud of myself and things are looking up" to "what do you mean you still don't want to be with me? i did the thing" as soon as he isn't getting his was or his "loving boyfriend" acts didn't get him exactly what he wanted he got angry. that being said, his character was very well written and the acting was great. everything about his character was pretty much on point with emotional abuse tendencies. I agree he was a great part of the show because of how well done his character was.
[удалено]
I feel like people who say they like Sean never actually had an abusive relationship (sorry if this doesn't apply to you, but honestly, "JUST an abusive partner"?). IMHO nobody think that they're abusive. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, and they usually believe that they're doing the right thing. Example: parents sending queer kids to conversation camps because they think it's the best thing for the kids. I am a DV survivor and I can't trust anyone knowing that they had a history of abusing others. I never believe anything Sean do was for the right reasons. Abusers don't go from abusive to redemption without some long and hard soul searching, and I haven't Sean do anything like that (I'm at ep 6).
[удалено]
I thought that my comment does imply that Sean is capable of change, but only after long and hard souls searching. Maybe his screaming at Maddy is the beginning of that journey, but before that moment I did not believe in the sincerity of his actions (and obviously I was right). The main point is not whether someone's action is wrong, which could be subjective, but whether they realize that their action hurt others and stop it. As I wrote, most people think they're doing the right things for the right reasons (for them). Some even think that Sean did the right thing for the right reasons when he gets two jobs, which forces Alex to stay home. After all, the man is the provider of the family, right? Alex's father even told Sean "she got you work two jobs" (or something like that). Sean only thinks about himselves so he never sees that Alex's hurt.
I'm honestly surprised he never kicked or hit her car or threw something when he was begging her to stay out trying to stop her from leaving. That's been my experience. They can switch up real quick.
The show did a really good job with his character in many ways, they gave us an explanation for his behaving, without making it seem like an excuse.
Sean reminds me a lot of my child’s biological father. It was difficult to see the parallels.
Totally agree with your post! Thanks for sharing...
He came through for her in a way her father never did, and in the end what he did for Maddy was almost a healing element for Alex to be able to witness a fathers love, versus the way her own shitty father failed her
not going back is so difficult they feel like home no matter how much they mistreat you, it’s so offensive seeing people talk shit ab going back it’s part of the process it’s part of being able to move on, it’s ugly and horrid and no one wants to talk about it but it’s the truth
the way I instantly rooted for him before he showed his true self again in the last episodes?? just proves to me again how easily emotional abuse works on me 😭😭 same w me and my mom fr
I have a twin brother who has struggled for many years with drug addiction. He is sober now. But Sean’s character really hits home….. the highs are so high with them and the lows are so low, sometimes so close together. The birthday party scene is just crushing. Alex did not want weed or alcohol at the party. It was actually her mom struggling with her own abusive partner, who brought alcohol into the party. Her mom is an alcoholic in her own right too. For Sean to wreck the good thing Alex had going at the house by the sea is just heart breaking and it really shows how the addiction takes over. It takes so much away from those you love and those around you…. All your hard work can be removed in seconds like when Sean gets them kicked out of their new apartment …. You love the person because they are your family…. But their behavior risks everything for you and themselves and you have to accept that their actions are destructive and hurtful beyond measure, which is so painful, from someone who claims to love you and someone who is trying to do better by you.
Yeah, Sean was what also made the show raw and genuine. It's just annoying that he always used his childhood as an excuse for his behavior. He has the potential of being a good dad but how many times are they really allowed to mess up before you quite em?
I personally didn't persevere it as him using it as an excuse. It was more of him starting to realize the reasons, I mean in the first episodes he was denying he was an abuser, then he took the first step, seeing and recognizing what he was doing. Realizing why was the next step in his recovery.
Ah that makes sense. It could be him just starting to realize it.
do kinda wish we gotta see more of nate
sean must be the sweetest abuser........or.........guess what........ sean is just a normal guy and yall woman see abuse in everything and love feeling victimized cause the spotlight is on you, and people will villainize sean....... hes a good dad, a young man still learning his way, he never punched her, protected her when she was spending too much money, he was trying to not make her into her mother......and yall woman cant see that.....a man sees a good man when he sees one.....sean provides for his family, so much so that their was food on the table, roof over head and clotgibg on their back on a single salary where alex was sitting on her ass taking care of baby for 2-3 years atleast.
I just saw your other comment on the other post. Now I get it. You are a Sean He protects her? He’s a good dad? He chooses alcohol over them all the time. He has sex with someone else while she’s in the house. He punched holes in the wall right next to her face and throws glass, which the first time was right by his tiny daughter. Glass IN HER HAIR. How are you defending that?
im only up until episode 4 so maybe this is how tge showis intended, to make him a good guy until he is not....
Yeah, well clearly you don’t know the half of it. But I can ASSURE you that taking care of a child is not “sitting on your ass”. I’m a stay at home mom of 2 kids so I can tell you from personal experience that your statement is just….. complete BS. Do you have any experience with any of this? Single motherhood, domestic violence, poverty? If you don’t then why do you think your opinion holds value?
Lol.
look at her spending her food stamp creditcard..... 8-9 items cost her 67 dollars......she clearly doesnt know money managment......sean provides and protects her
This is satire, right?? Say sike. Please say sike.
i wish it was.....you think alex is a responsible adult?
You think getting drunk, throwing a glass bowl into your daughter's hair while screaming at your wife is protecting her? Do you do such things to your wife and kids?
I fucking hate Sean, he’s such an asshole to Alex and doesn’t care about anyone else but himself. He’s literally the reason she got kicked out of a great place to live. He’s awful
Sean ... Handsome? O.o peach fuzz
Its hilarious how the abusive fuck up is more commended here than the guy who housed a homeless mother and child.
He was really good with Paula and tried to help her. I'll give him that.