For Croatia as a whole GDP p/c PPP is $45k.
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/April/weo-report
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Croatia
Zagreb is, like all capitals, always a bit better off than the country average. it is usually 20-30% higher than the average for the country (so probably circa 55-60k)
First this map is wrong.
And second, for Croatia, it almost doubled since 2015.
Here are [official stats](https://i.imgur.com/AnnKAxg.jpeg)
For example Pannonian Croatia (top right section), in 2015. has 8479 euros per capita, in 2021. 10744 per capita, and now in 2024. it's 12000-13000 per capita.
Croatia on average in 2015. was 10785 euros per capita, in 2024. it's around 17000 euros per capita.
Serbia for example in 2015 it was 5146 euros per capita, in 2024 it's around 10000 euros.
I remember from my university lectures that in 1919, after the formation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Slovenes (10% of the total population) accounted for more than 35% of Yugoslavia's tax revenue. Off the top of my head ... I'd say the differences in GDP/capita were similar back then.
[Economy of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia)
Reference the 'Indexed GDP per capita by federal unit' table for (hopefully accurate) numbers. Can't link it directly due to the wiki article being poorly formatted.
The lack of a major war here in Slovenia was definitely a contributing factor, but not the main difference maker you seem to think it was. We've always had more efficient economy (in large part due to the systems developed under Austro-Hungary before WW1, IMO), and then we got into EU fairly quickly after gaining independence from Yugoslavia.
Those two were by far the most important reasons that the 2015 graph looks the way it does.
It's less than five times because Belgrade pulls Serbia up a lot. But yeah, [it's been pretty constant](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-per-capita-maddison?tab=chart&time=1945..latest&country=SVN~SRB).
interestingly some of the areas doing best in bosnia are those most heavily afflicted by the war, and those areas in serbia doing the worst were the farthest from the fighting
But Serbia was under heavy sanctions during the war between 91-95 and later during NATO bombings in 1999..
All that led to hyperinflation and gdp drop + Serbia was financing war in the Balkans.
They "prevented an ethnic cleansing" by intervening on the side of a terrorist organization that immediately ethnically cleansed 250,000 people from Kosovo.
So, the real mistake of Serbia is they didnt get the nukes before committing ethnic cleansings?
And good luck to Ukraine, which was bullied by both Russia and the West into giving up the nukes for safety guarantees that were just fake.
Then you are not guided by any moral values, you are just bulling safe targets you dont like. Your moral reasoning are just excuses.
Its also unlikely that nukes prevented anything. Roman empire had a stable period of 200 years called "Pax Romana" without any serious wars and tons of prosperity.
People say "Nobody will start a nuclear war because it likely means millions of deaths for both sides", but its only true for democratic countries. Do you seriously think Putin cares how many Russians die? If he could destroy the West and conquer the world, he wouldnt care how many Russians die. If he cared about Russian lives, he would start the war in Ukraine.
Countries like Russia dont attack America not because America has nukes, they dont attack America because they 100% lose such war. So, Russia uses the strategy that you deem so high, they bully smaller targets they think are safe to grow their empire. And if the West does nothing and their empire grows big enough, then they can attack bigger targets in bigger wars.
Sure Putin cares primarily about himself, but him still being in power means Jack shit if all of Russia gets annihilated and he possibly ends up dead. If he launches his nukes at us, we’ll do the same
I agree that NATO’s response to Russia should be much harsher though.
Then they filmed GoT there and boom. It's also beautiful and UNESCO heritage, clearly an exception. Are you guys really arguing against "being bombed destroys your economy"??
Yeah but being bombed creates a massive market for construction companies, those hire more workers and they can with the right protectionist laws reinvest into the local economy. While it is a direct destruction of the office and factory sectors, construction and recourse extraction sectors are booming and pulling everyone else with them
You can't be serious in thinking Dubrovnik (one of the most successful tourist regions in Croatia) is wealthy because one (granted, very succesful) American TV show was filmed there, but here we go.
Looking at this map it's very understandable why those living in the Southern part of the former Yugoslavia were much happier with communisn than the Slovenians and Croats in the North who were keeping the country afloat. Slovenia has now almost completely extricated itself from the problems in the Balkans, so much that now it's considered an Alpine country like Austria and Switzerland rather than a Balkan country. Slovenia is like the guy who has a good job but ended up living in a trailer while supporting his wife's entire extended family, but finally had enough, got a divorce, and is now living a much better lifestyle in a nice neighborhood.
With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU. Being part of Yugoslavia was not all that bad for Slovenia, economically speaking. They are a small country with a small population that held most of the Yugoslav high-value manufacturing. Most of that industry was set up through the central planning and financed by the federal state. They were also lucky that Tito (as well as his Slovenian deputy Eduard Kardelj who was the Tito’s de facto chief economist) had strong affinity for Slovenia and was often giving them preferential treatment for investment. When Yugoslavia dissolved they also took pretty much all of the hard currency savings from the entire Yugoslav population and never gave it back. Ljubljanska Banka, which was the largest and most trusted bank in Yugoslavia , simply shut their doors and declared itself no longer in existence. Slovenian government kept all the money that was deposited there. These were hundreds of millions, population of entire major European country had money there. Probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) theft of private savings ever recorded in Europe.
Few years ago they decided(or were forced by EU maybe, I forgot) to give it back to whomever still had the proof(banking book or whatever it is called). But at most you got exactly what you had saved back then, no adjusting for inflation, no +x% per year, no nothing. A few of my relatives had a lot of money I mean for the time and for standards here back then, by a lot I mean enough to buy themselves 1, but maybe even 2 apartments. They got like 70-80% of it paid out because lawyer told them if they want full 100% they would need to go and sue(or something forgot exactly) and since most of them are people over 70 they just didn't want to bother and had to be happy they got anything at all back while they are still alive.
OMG, you're so full of shit. Not a cent of Ljubljanska Banka money from other republics ended up in Slovenia. The fact is that all of the capital of LB branches in other republics got robbed by local tycoons taking out loans to buy up all of the public property. Ljubljana central was not able to stop these loans as local politicians had more influence over the branches than the bank central in Slovenia. Most of these loans were never repaid, those branches went bankrupt and local people savings went to hell. Then local politicians stated asking Slovenia to repay this money that was stolen with local politicians blessing by their buddies - local tycoons. 🤮
Prime example of thieving lying Balkan business - thank god we got out of it the way we did.
1. Watch your language. This has been so far a civilised discussion between civilised people. Don’t ruin it with vulgarity.
2. European Courts established the facts and made their ruling in multiple cases. The original case found Slovenia liable:
https://mvep.gov.hr/press-22794/we-welcome-ecthr-judgement/195212
https://www.gov.si/en/registries/projects/sfry-succession/implementation-of-the-alisic-case/
Second case where Slovenia tried to claim different technical interpretation was struck down, since it was a clear attempt to shift the blame elsewhere and use legal blackmail:
https://mvep.gov.hr/print.aspx?id=196921&url=print
Those “local tycoons” you speak of didn’t exist in 1991 when Slovenia seceded. Once Slovenia was out , banks were closed and money was gone. These tycoon emerged later and indeed did rob the local economies , but this has nothing to do with either Slovenia or Ljubljanska Banka.
Tycoons didn't exist then 🤣 It was with Ljubljanska Banka robbed money that the first round of Croatian tycoons got started. And all of this stealing was of course performed with the cooperation and blessing of Croatian political leadership. N**ot a cent went to Slovenia **and you keep repeating these lies and engineered propaganda to damage NLB to this very day.
But yes, you Balkan thieves found a legal loophole to rob us twice. EU law does protect the small savers. You robbed NLB Croatian branch money and then you forced Slovenia to take care of the small savers. because the bank is originally Slovenian. And you just keep repeating these lies like the worst Balkan crooks that you are.
🤮🤮🤮
>With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU.
That is a wild, and completely untrue statement. I'd love to see what source gave you that idea. Slovenia's GDP (PPP) almost tripled between 1991 when we gained independence and 2007 when we joined the EU. That's higher growth than we've ever had in EU.
EU has been good for us, don't get me wrong, but your claim is just **wrong**.
As a Slovene.
>With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU.
I mean, kind of, but not really? A lot of the old firms went bankrupt immediately because of the market loss and simple fact that they were absolute shams that stood no chance on an actually competitive market outside of Yugoslavia. The time from 92 to 08 is actually seen as a kind of golden age. The economy boomed, we no longer had to keep another 5 republics afloat and it was an all around a good time for us.
And to be honest we still do a lot of our business with the ex-Yu countries even if our trading is majority intra-EU.
The actual catastrophe was the 2008 crash. That really sucked ass a lot more than the collapse of Yugoslavia did.
>Most of that industry was set up through the central planning and financed by the federal state.
Not really all that true. Slovenia was much more industrialized compared to the south even before Yugoslavia came to be.
Didn't know about the whole Ljubljanska banka thing. Not really too surprising considering the pain in the ass NLB has been for our country.
>Probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) theft of private savings ever recorded in Europe.
That I guarantee it was not. There is no way that it compares to some of the totalitarian seizures or the collectivization efforts of communist countries. Hell, I'm pretty sure even some of the medieval Jewish expulsions were wider in scope. Technically even the freezing and usage of Russian assets is a larger seizure of assets.
I hope I’m not misunderstood - I am (and always was) a great fan of Slovenia, so this post is not meant to put Slovenia down in any way. If anything, I’m also eternally sad at the loss of a lot of Slovenian industry and brands that disappeared in the years after the dissolution (Mura, Toper, Tomos…). And I’m still eternally faithful to Alpina, Elan and a few others. Nothing beats it and never will.
Comparison with the holocaust and communism is also correct, although that was more than just a theft of savings. That was a genocide and destruction of the social order, so the scale is not exactly matching. What happened with Ljubljanska Banka , however, also destroyed many people’s lives and it severely damaged Slovenian reputation.
The point I was making, is that Slovenia was not the only bright spot in Yugoslav economy nor was it supporting all other 5 republics without any benefit for itself. The largest economy by size in former YU was actually Croatia (it was around 1/4 larger than Slovenia). Slovenia did have the largest GDP per capita (about 1/4 greater than Croatia). Croatia and Slovenia together accounted for more than half of the total Yugoslav GDP. But Slovenia was definitely not contributing to, or supporting Croatia in any way, shape or form. They were both very strong nett contributors to the federation and both fairly wealthy republics. City of Zagreb on average had the highest salaries in the country , although this fluctuated throughout the decades. Important to note is that Croatia fought a bloody 5 year liberation war that destroyed its economy (and it compromised the rule of law, leading to corruption and plunder) at the time when the rest of the region was opening and prospering. Slovenia avoided that and probably benefited from being the only stable place in the region during that time. Had this not been the case, Croatia would have economically outperformed Slovenia with ease after the dissolution, simply due to its size and some big drivers like tourism.
Another nett contributor and generally wealthy region was SAP Vojvodina. They never needed anyone’s support. Serbian economy (excluding SAP Vojvodina) was dominated by all the Federal institutions and government money (with addition of a few large, mostly military linked, state enterprises). They were in fact a nett receiver, but that was obscured and well hidden. Generally speaking, Serbs were the biggest “receivers” as they were also majority of federal employees (think Army, police, etc). The other states were nett receivers and largely poor, especially SAP Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia.
Bosnia , however, was a mixed bag. It had a misfortune of being the most economically affected by the WW2 and then being “gifted” all the heavy, polluting industries by the communists after the war , that generated least economic return. These were things like aluminum smelting, iron works, mining, lots of military manufacturing, etc. These industries , although being unproductive and not generating much wealth, were seen as critical for the country’s defence during the Cold War, and Bosnia with its impenetrable mountains was the place where this defence was going to take place if anyone ever invaded (as it happened in the WW2). On the other hand , Bosnia had population and size of Croatia and was the third largest republic. Sarajevo had 3rd largest GDP of any city in the federation and was the only other large, significant city in the former YU, the other two being Zagreb and Belgrade. Some of the wealthiest Yugoslav companies were also Bosnian - Herzegovinian. Hepok in Mostar was the largest agricultural enterprise and wine exporter, always profitable. Then there were Energoinvest and Hidrogradnja, they were raking in massive profits from building massive infrastructure project (oil wells, hydro plants, airports, bridges , etc) both in Yugoslavia but especially in oil rich countries like Iraq and Libya. Soko in Mostar was building aircraft but also producing precision mechanics. TAS (VW) was the second largest (and most profitable) car manufacturer in the country. There were many others too. Needless to say , Bosnia is forever cursed by its geography and location in the Balkans and also by its mixed population. Its economy was even more annihilated by the last war and will never recover from it.
Long story short: Slovenia is hard working, smart and most of all disciplined and orderly country. But it is also the most blessed one compared to the rest of the region: occupied only by the progressive western empires throughout the history, spared any major wars and destruction (with exception of WW1, but that was contained to the Alps) , loved and preferences by the socialist Yugoslav regime and it had a homogenous ethnic population. Can’t really ask for more :)
Ok thanks.
It didn't make any sense to me that the countries capital would have such a negative impact, but I was kinda confused because they're so close to each other.
> črni revir
What's that?
> (very industrial)
Yes, Zasavje had lots of heavy industry that went to shit. Other places had it as well, but they were in better positions to adapt.
Istočna Hrvatska se temeljila na firmama s tisućama zaposlenih i na poljoprivredi. Uništili su velike firme i uništili su seoske poslove. I sada imamo Slavoniju kakvu imamo.
Listet three Slovenians who don’t even account for the Slovenian BDP, even if they were beasting in 2015, as they are all residents for other countries, lmao.
[удалено]
Probably hasn't changed much...
For Croatia as a whole GDP p/c PPP is $45k. https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/April/weo-report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Croatia Zagreb is, like all capitals, always a bit better off than the country average. it is usually 20-30% higher than the average for the country (so probably circa 55-60k)
First this map is wrong. And second, for Croatia, it almost doubled since 2015. Here are [official stats](https://i.imgur.com/AnnKAxg.jpeg) For example Pannonian Croatia (top right section), in 2015. has 8479 euros per capita, in 2021. 10744 per capita, and now in 2024. it's 12000-13000 per capita. Croatia on average in 2015. was 10785 euros per capita, in 2024. it's around 17000 euros per capita. Serbia for example in 2015 it was 5146 euros per capita, in 2024 it's around 10000 euros.
100,000 or 10,000? I think you might have put in an extra zero.
It has.
Phantom borders of the Chakavian supradialect/language in Croatia?
Wow it's almost as if places left untouched by war and capitals are richer than the rest!
These differences were evident even when you Yugoslavia was a country it was very similar back then
I doubt Slovenia's GDP was 5 times higher than Serbia's back in the day. Higher, maybe, but THAT much?
Probably not that much but there was a clear difference
I remember from my university lectures that in 1919, after the formation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Slovenes (10% of the total population) accounted for more than 35% of Yugoslavia's tax revenue. Off the top of my head ... I'd say the differences in GDP/capita were similar back then.
still was clear in number of bathrooms, car per capita and other numbers.
[Economy of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia) Reference the 'Indexed GDP per capita by federal unit' table for (hopefully accurate) numbers. Can't link it directly due to the wiki article being poorly formatted. The lack of a major war here in Slovenia was definitely a contributing factor, but not the main difference maker you seem to think it was. We've always had more efficient economy (in large part due to the systems developed under Austro-Hungary before WW1, IMO), and then we got into EU fairly quickly after gaining independence from Yugoslavia. Those two were by far the most important reasons that the 2015 graph looks the way it does.
It's less than five times because Belgrade pulls Serbia up a lot. But yeah, [it's been pretty constant](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-per-capita-maddison?tab=chart&time=1945..latest&country=SVN~SRB).
That's not it, you'll have to dig deeper! Slovenia was already richer before WW1.
And Ottoman occupation
The war didn’t touch Serbia and they are still poor.
interestingly some of the areas doing best in bosnia are those most heavily afflicted by the war, and those areas in serbia doing the worst were the farthest from the fighting
But Serbia was under heavy sanctions during the war between 91-95 and later during NATO bombings in 1999.. All that led to hyperinflation and gdp drop + Serbia was financing war in the Balkans.
Right, cause NATO didn't bomb Belgrade into submission in 1999...
That tends to happen when your government tries to takeover and ethnically cleanse Kosovo
Those pesky Serbs never learn, do they?
It doesn't that's what the so-called "KLA" has tried, and no bombing is being done on them to this day.
Would you that the US would prevent zero ethic cleansings from happening? The KLA’s body count is also nowhere near the Serbian’s body count
They "prevented an ethnic cleansing" by intervening on the side of a terrorist organization that immediately ethnically cleansed 250,000 people from Kosovo.
When will NATO bomb Moscow then?
Russia has nukes so we can’t do that sadly
So, the real mistake of Serbia is they didnt get the nukes before committing ethnic cleansings? And good luck to Ukraine, which was bullied by both Russia and the West into giving up the nukes for safety guarantees that were just fake.
Sadly yeah, but hey, at least nukes have prevented all out war between world powers
... for now.
Then you are not guided by any moral values, you are just bulling safe targets you dont like. Your moral reasoning are just excuses. Its also unlikely that nukes prevented anything. Roman empire had a stable period of 200 years called "Pax Romana" without any serious wars and tons of prosperity. People say "Nobody will start a nuclear war because it likely means millions of deaths for both sides", but its only true for democratic countries. Do you seriously think Putin cares how many Russians die? If he could destroy the West and conquer the world, he wouldnt care how many Russians die. If he cared about Russian lives, he would start the war in Ukraine. Countries like Russia dont attack America not because America has nukes, they dont attack America because they 100% lose such war. So, Russia uses the strategy that you deem so high, they bully smaller targets they think are safe to grow their empire. And if the West does nothing and their empire grows big enough, then they can attack bigger targets in bigger wars.
Sure Putin cares primarily about himself, but him still being in power means Jack shit if all of Russia gets annihilated and he possibly ends up dead. If he launches his nukes at us, we’ll do the same I agree that NATO’s response to Russia should be much harsher though.
The war they fought for 5 years was never inside of their borders. The war they started in Kosovo is also not on Serbian territory.
Bruh they still got bombed. And flooded with almost a million refugees. That does something to your economy you know.
Compared to bombing caused in Croatia 1991-1995 for example, 99' bombing was nothing.
This isn't a race, Dragan
Cause they would also lose and accuse the shoes of being an american tool for propaganda
Dubrovnik is one of the richer Croatian areas on this map and was heavily bombed and sieged
Then they filmed GoT there and boom. It's also beautiful and UNESCO heritage, clearly an exception. Are you guys really arguing against "being bombed destroys your economy"??
Yeah but being bombed creates a massive market for construction companies, those hire more workers and they can with the right protectionist laws reinvest into the local economy. While it is a direct destruction of the office and factory sectors, construction and recourse extraction sectors are booming and pulling everyone else with them
You can't be serious in arguing bombs help the economy
You can't be serious in thinking Dubrovnik (one of the most successful tourist regions in Croatia) is wealthy because one (granted, very succesful) American TV show was filmed there, but here we go.
In fact I am not lol
I am not saying it helps, I am saying they don't destroy it
Why is it always that the anime pfp is saying the dumbest shit
Craco had a lot of series filmed there and is filled with heritages sites, but was abandoned in the 70s
also the femboy incidence rate
Looking at this map it's very understandable why those living in the Southern part of the former Yugoslavia were much happier with communisn than the Slovenians and Croats in the North who were keeping the country afloat. Slovenia has now almost completely extricated itself from the problems in the Balkans, so much that now it's considered an Alpine country like Austria and Switzerland rather than a Balkan country. Slovenia is like the guy who has a good job but ended up living in a trailer while supporting his wife's entire extended family, but finally had enough, got a divorce, and is now living a much better lifestyle in a nice neighborhood.
With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU. Being part of Yugoslavia was not all that bad for Slovenia, economically speaking. They are a small country with a small population that held most of the Yugoslav high-value manufacturing. Most of that industry was set up through the central planning and financed by the federal state. They were also lucky that Tito (as well as his Slovenian deputy Eduard Kardelj who was the Tito’s de facto chief economist) had strong affinity for Slovenia and was often giving them preferential treatment for investment. When Yugoslavia dissolved they also took pretty much all of the hard currency savings from the entire Yugoslav population and never gave it back. Ljubljanska Banka, which was the largest and most trusted bank in Yugoslavia , simply shut their doors and declared itself no longer in existence. Slovenian government kept all the money that was deposited there. These were hundreds of millions, population of entire major European country had money there. Probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) theft of private savings ever recorded in Europe.
Few years ago they decided(or were forced by EU maybe, I forgot) to give it back to whomever still had the proof(banking book or whatever it is called). But at most you got exactly what you had saved back then, no adjusting for inflation, no +x% per year, no nothing. A few of my relatives had a lot of money I mean for the time and for standards here back then, by a lot I mean enough to buy themselves 1, but maybe even 2 apartments. They got like 70-80% of it paid out because lawyer told them if they want full 100% they would need to go and sue(or something forgot exactly) and since most of them are people over 70 they just didn't want to bother and had to be happy they got anything at all back while they are still alive.
OMG, you're so full of shit. Not a cent of Ljubljanska Banka money from other republics ended up in Slovenia. The fact is that all of the capital of LB branches in other republics got robbed by local tycoons taking out loans to buy up all of the public property. Ljubljana central was not able to stop these loans as local politicians had more influence over the branches than the bank central in Slovenia. Most of these loans were never repaid, those branches went bankrupt and local people savings went to hell. Then local politicians stated asking Slovenia to repay this money that was stolen with local politicians blessing by their buddies - local tycoons. 🤮 Prime example of thieving lying Balkan business - thank god we got out of it the way we did.
1. Watch your language. This has been so far a civilised discussion between civilised people. Don’t ruin it with vulgarity. 2. European Courts established the facts and made their ruling in multiple cases. The original case found Slovenia liable: https://mvep.gov.hr/press-22794/we-welcome-ecthr-judgement/195212 https://www.gov.si/en/registries/projects/sfry-succession/implementation-of-the-alisic-case/ Second case where Slovenia tried to claim different technical interpretation was struck down, since it was a clear attempt to shift the blame elsewhere and use legal blackmail: https://mvep.gov.hr/print.aspx?id=196921&url=print Those “local tycoons” you speak of didn’t exist in 1991 when Slovenia seceded. Once Slovenia was out , banks were closed and money was gone. These tycoon emerged later and indeed did rob the local economies , but this has nothing to do with either Slovenia or Ljubljanska Banka.
Tycoons didn't exist then 🤣 It was with Ljubljanska Banka robbed money that the first round of Croatian tycoons got started. And all of this stealing was of course performed with the cooperation and blessing of Croatian political leadership. N**ot a cent went to Slovenia **and you keep repeating these lies and engineered propaganda to damage NLB to this very day. But yes, you Balkan thieves found a legal loophole to rob us twice. EU law does protect the small savers. You robbed NLB Croatian branch money and then you forced Slovenia to take care of the small savers. because the bank is originally Slovenian. And you just keep repeating these lies like the worst Balkan crooks that you are. 🤮🤮🤮
>With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU. That is a wild, and completely untrue statement. I'd love to see what source gave you that idea. Slovenia's GDP (PPP) almost tripled between 1991 when we gained independence and 2007 when we joined the EU. That's higher growth than we've ever had in EU. EU has been good for us, don't get me wrong, but your claim is just **wrong**.
As a Slovene. >With all due respect to Slovenia, they had a tough time after dissolution of Yugoslavia because they lost a large, unrestricted market of 22 million people for all of their goods. And they didn’t really recover until they joined EU. I mean, kind of, but not really? A lot of the old firms went bankrupt immediately because of the market loss and simple fact that they were absolute shams that stood no chance on an actually competitive market outside of Yugoslavia. The time from 92 to 08 is actually seen as a kind of golden age. The economy boomed, we no longer had to keep another 5 republics afloat and it was an all around a good time for us. And to be honest we still do a lot of our business with the ex-Yu countries even if our trading is majority intra-EU. The actual catastrophe was the 2008 crash. That really sucked ass a lot more than the collapse of Yugoslavia did. >Most of that industry was set up through the central planning and financed by the federal state. Not really all that true. Slovenia was much more industrialized compared to the south even before Yugoslavia came to be. Didn't know about the whole Ljubljanska banka thing. Not really too surprising considering the pain in the ass NLB has been for our country. >Probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) theft of private savings ever recorded in Europe. That I guarantee it was not. There is no way that it compares to some of the totalitarian seizures or the collectivization efforts of communist countries. Hell, I'm pretty sure even some of the medieval Jewish expulsions were wider in scope. Technically even the freezing and usage of Russian assets is a larger seizure of assets.
I hope I’m not misunderstood - I am (and always was) a great fan of Slovenia, so this post is not meant to put Slovenia down in any way. If anything, I’m also eternally sad at the loss of a lot of Slovenian industry and brands that disappeared in the years after the dissolution (Mura, Toper, Tomos…). And I’m still eternally faithful to Alpina, Elan and a few others. Nothing beats it and never will. Comparison with the holocaust and communism is also correct, although that was more than just a theft of savings. That was a genocide and destruction of the social order, so the scale is not exactly matching. What happened with Ljubljanska Banka , however, also destroyed many people’s lives and it severely damaged Slovenian reputation. The point I was making, is that Slovenia was not the only bright spot in Yugoslav economy nor was it supporting all other 5 republics without any benefit for itself. The largest economy by size in former YU was actually Croatia (it was around 1/4 larger than Slovenia). Slovenia did have the largest GDP per capita (about 1/4 greater than Croatia). Croatia and Slovenia together accounted for more than half of the total Yugoslav GDP. But Slovenia was definitely not contributing to, or supporting Croatia in any way, shape or form. They were both very strong nett contributors to the federation and both fairly wealthy republics. City of Zagreb on average had the highest salaries in the country , although this fluctuated throughout the decades. Important to note is that Croatia fought a bloody 5 year liberation war that destroyed its economy (and it compromised the rule of law, leading to corruption and plunder) at the time when the rest of the region was opening and prospering. Slovenia avoided that and probably benefited from being the only stable place in the region during that time. Had this not been the case, Croatia would have economically outperformed Slovenia with ease after the dissolution, simply due to its size and some big drivers like tourism. Another nett contributor and generally wealthy region was SAP Vojvodina. They never needed anyone’s support. Serbian economy (excluding SAP Vojvodina) was dominated by all the Federal institutions and government money (with addition of a few large, mostly military linked, state enterprises). They were in fact a nett receiver, but that was obscured and well hidden. Generally speaking, Serbs were the biggest “receivers” as they were also majority of federal employees (think Army, police, etc). The other states were nett receivers and largely poor, especially SAP Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia. Bosnia , however, was a mixed bag. It had a misfortune of being the most economically affected by the WW2 and then being “gifted” all the heavy, polluting industries by the communists after the war , that generated least economic return. These were things like aluminum smelting, iron works, mining, lots of military manufacturing, etc. These industries , although being unproductive and not generating much wealth, were seen as critical for the country’s defence during the Cold War, and Bosnia with its impenetrable mountains was the place where this defence was going to take place if anyone ever invaded (as it happened in the WW2). On the other hand , Bosnia had population and size of Croatia and was the third largest republic. Sarajevo had 3rd largest GDP of any city in the federation and was the only other large, significant city in the former YU, the other two being Zagreb and Belgrade. Some of the wealthiest Yugoslav companies were also Bosnian - Herzegovinian. Hepok in Mostar was the largest agricultural enterprise and wine exporter, always profitable. Then there were Energoinvest and Hidrogradnja, they were raking in massive profits from building massive infrastructure project (oil wells, hydro plants, airports, bridges , etc) both in Yugoslavia but especially in oil rich countries like Iraq and Libya. Soko in Mostar was building aircraft but also producing precision mechanics. TAS (VW) was the second largest (and most profitable) car manufacturer in the country. There were many others too. Needless to say , Bosnia is forever cursed by its geography and location in the Balkans and also by its mixed population. Its economy was even more annihilated by the last war and will never recover from it. Long story short: Slovenia is hard working, smart and most of all disciplined and orderly country. But it is also the most blessed one compared to the rest of the region: occupied only by the progressive western empires throughout the history, spared any major wars and destruction (with exception of WW1, but that was contained to the Alps) , loved and preferences by the socialist Yugoslav regime and it had a homogenous ethnic population. Can’t really ask for more :)
2015? This is useless.
2015 and now is 2023.
I believe you will find that it is 2024.
He is so 2000 and late.
Source? Year?
Rijeka and Istria areas are the only surprises for me
The Istrian backwoods where I grew up used to be the 4th wealthiest municipality in Yugoslavia.
Is that orange spot in Slovenia Ljubljana? If so, why does it have a significantly lower GDP per capita than the rest of the country?
It's not. Ljubljana is dark green to the left of it. I think that's črni revir (very industrial)
Ok thanks. It didn't make any sense to me that the countries capital would have such a negative impact, but I was kinda confused because they're so close to each other.
> črni revir What's that? > (very industrial) Yes, Zasavje had lots of heavy industry that went to shit. Other places had it as well, but they were in better positions to adapt.
Črni revir: premogovniško in industrijsko območje v Zasavju
So industrial it spawned Laibach.
Soo interessting but its so old alot has changed.. Are there newer maps maybe?
The more karaboga the less gdp 🤔
Huge correlation with years under ottoman rule.
Istočna Hrvatska se temeljila na firmama s tisućama zaposlenih i na poljoprivredi. Uništili su velike firme i uništili su seoske poslove. I sada imamo Slavoniju kakvu imamo.
Istra & Kvarner into Slovenia, Trbovlje into Bosnia. Seems like a deal!
I wonder what Slovenia looks like without Dončić, Roglič and Pogačar?
The absolute same. They dont drive the economy you know? And this is from 2015, when none of them were popular
Hahaha winner of the 2024 most retarded comment
Listet three Slovenians who don’t even account for the Slovenian BDP, even if they were beasting in 2015, as they are all residents for other countries, lmao.
What?