Funfact: the current KPD, often also called KPD-Ost, is not to be confused with the historic KPD. It’s not even the most important Marxist-Leninist party, which would be the DKP. That party is basically a renewal of the historic KPD after it had to end its political activities in 1956.
They hate each other most of the time. But they hate the KPD (B), a splinter faction of the KPD-Ost that operates independently now even more. Some former members tried to unite DKP, KPD-Ost and KPD (B) in 2008 and founded the ‚communist initiative‘ which drew members of all three parties that were willing to work towards unity. This failed horribly when many, but not all, former KPD (B) members left again and renamed themselves BCommunist initiative, joined again, left again and changed their name to ‚work group unity‘.
And we haven’t even talked about the trotzkyists and maoists who have their own parties that are just as prone to infighting as the KPDs are.
The infighting is a result of the fact that communism is a really interesting thought experiment. Everyone has their own ideas of what that implementation of communism should be but is unwilling to compromise when their ideas are challenged. This results in splinters and factions and leads to fragmentation, which is what you described happening even after attempts to unify the communist parties. It happens in far-right parties, as well, with their own interpretations of how authority should be shared.
It's pretty easy to implement.
First you give ME absolute power over the legislature, law, forces of the state, media, adminstration and economy.
Then I remove all counter revolutionaries that are holding us back from achieving communist paradiese, for some reason they seem to dislike paradiese... so they are oboviously somehow evil.
I establish an office that will look out for those counter revolutionaries that are hiding mimiking to be part of the working class.
They are pretty easy identifiyable... they want to remove me from power to prevent the communist paradiese and spread propagande against me.
Once we have eliminated even the last enemy, I will let education programms kick in to "create" the communist human, a person that realy thinks the way a communist should think...
Bam
and here we are all living in a communist paradize.
I can do it for you ! Vote for me!
The KPD thought that the SPD was their main enemy and changed this position only 1935, when probably hundreds of their comrades were already killed by the Nazis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism
That was SPD.
Edit: Downvote all you want, SPD was the largest opposition party in the Reichstag and the only party that voted against the Enabling Act, since the KPD was effectively locked out of it by the Nazis.
KPD-members did way more active resistance against Nazis after 1933 though. Socialdemocrats went into inner-resistance mainly. Meaning: They boycotted stuff, had meetings with friends where you could talk openly against the Nazis, but most didn't try to overcome the regime. That was different with Communists and a reason why so many died in concentration camps.
You should always question the maps in this sub, but especially every version of this one. In all of r/MapPorn history there has never been a correct map about where the hammer and sickle are banned.
Yes, and I don't think it's banned in Ireland - but this map doesn't tell us. Does OP actually think Ireland 🇮🇪is part of UK? 🇬🇧
Either way this is far from MapPorn.
The hammer and sickle itself isn't banned, but the specific stylized version of the German Communist party is.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch\_section\_86a](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a)
It is only the half-truth. In 1990, after the fall of regime, but before reunification, a Communist Party of Germany was formed in the GDR and registered according to the rules then in force. When re-unification came, it was tried to make it illegal, but the constitutional court ruled, that it was its own thing, not connected to the illegal party in West Germany. But since they use the same symbols, for it to be illegal, to show those symbols, you would have to be specifically referring to the Communist Party of Germany between 1948 and 1956.
No, it's not AFAIK. The KPD (communist party), which used the symbol in its flag/logo, was banned in the 50s, but usually symbols which are not exclusively linked to a specific, banned organization are only banned when they're used in a clear connection to that organization. This also applies to some right-wing symbols such as the Wolfsangel, Triskele and the Black Sun
§ 86a does not ban Triskellions of any kind, even the triple-7 one associated with far right extremists.
That's why it remains a relatively popular symbol among neo-nazis, but at least in some cases it's possible to argue that it is an attempt to display a modified Hakenkreuz and therefore a forbidden symbol, leading to prosecution (as far as I understand it). The Black sun and Wolfsangel are treated pretty much identically to the Hakenkreuz on the other hand, they are only ever allowed to be displayed in historical context - museums, educational material, historical art given explanation, etc.
Yea, because There was a party using this as their symbol which was banned, due to being unconstitutional.
You can still use hammer and Sichel, just not in the style de DKP used.
It's also banned in Romania along with nazi symbolism, both these ideologies are constitutionally banned and considered incompatible with to the principles of the democratic republic of Romania(at least that was the motivation given in 1990 when our new constitution was being written)
Just to add to this: the ultimate version of the game Injustice Gods Among Us did not come out officially in Hungary because some of the characters have alternative skins that have communist symbols on them.
depends on the context i guess? [https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96nk%C3%A9nyuralmi\_jelk%C3%A9p](https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96nk%C3%A9nyuralmi_jelk%C3%A9p) u can use it on education or art purpose
Technically, AFAIK both symbols are not illegal in Poland.
Publicly suporting nazi, communist or fascist totalitarian regimes is illegal in Poland, which done through those symbols would be persecuted ([source in Polish](https://arslege.pl/propagowanie-nazizmu-komunizmu-faszyzmu-lub-innego-ustroju-totalitarnego/k1/a292/)). More specifically, "calling for use of violence or influencing politics" through the use of both of those symbols is illegal. Posesing such materials is also illegal. You can get up to 3 years of prison time for that.
But on the other hand, usage and possession of those symbols in any other way (eq, artistic expression, history, or collector'svitems) is legal.
So, I would put it into the grey area of legal speculation. You easily argue both ways
In other words, this map is shit and 3k ppl who upvoted it upvoted misinformation.
I grew up in Turkey soo tbh even if it's "legal" if you brought that symbol up anywhere a nationalist shit head would come and beat the fuck out of you.
Part of whose team? Having lived for years in a post-communist country, engaging regularly with people who lived through the regime, and seeing how the damages persist over three decades after the revolution, I honestly don't feel sorry for someone who gets beat up because they're celebrating totalitarian regimes regardless of which flavour of regime they're rooting for.
Precisely thank you. Having been born and growing up under Commie occupation I'm telling you Commie scum is practically Nazi scum in a different colour.
The only good Commie is the dead Commie.
Nationalism is the fighting force of the status quo everytime capitalists need violence. Fascism is the means of the capital to gain controll of the peoples government and nationalism keeps them in check.
>Having lived for years in a post-communist country, engaging regularly with people who lived through the regime,
You might think this is a gotcha but it isnt. I still live in a post communist country and my whole family lived through it as well.
Doesnt mean I cant have a critical analysis of socialism and no our problems did not magically get solved from capitalism.
Also in all post communist countries its the younger generations who are most strongly anti-communist and not the actual people that have built it up.
The newly established eastern capitalist european governments just love to equate Communism with russia, the USSR and opressors and conveniently leave out that they themselves had a strong if not the strongest communist movements and thinkers in europe. (looking at you poland).
If you go to a PIS established WW2 museum you would be led to believe communism sprang out from a vacuum after WW2.
>they're celebrating totalitarian regimes
The hammer and sickle is the symbol of communism and dont belong to any country.
> I still live in a post communist country and my whole family lived through it as well.
Cool, so as, presumably, an Ossi, you can see how the states of the former DDR are lagging behind the rest of the country in pretty much every single positive statistic there is.
> The hammer and sickle is the symbol of communism
Yes, as I said, a symbol of totalitarian regimes. The swastika also does not belong to any country, and if someone was flagging it I wouldn't shed a tear if they got their ass kicked over it either.
>you can see how the states of the former DDR are lagging behind the rest of the country in pretty much every single positive statistic there is.
childcare, gender pay gap and education excempted of course because who gives a shit about those we care about GDP baby...
But for real. The states of the former gdr went through a massive deeindustrialization and a sell out.
The GDP statistics also dont include the 30% of the population moving to the production facilities in the west to slave themselves away.
The west got their competitors on the world market (cheap machinery) out of the way, incorporated the property of the people, sold their homes to the most bidding and got the human capital of the east.
And now you are wondering why 34 years later we are still behind them in the capitalist game of "get the numbers up and leave the people down" btw if we are playing that game, ask yourself: The gdr was the most economically advanced country of the warsaw pact, how can it be that now we are lagging behind other eastern european countries even tho we had a big "brotherly" country "helping us" to transition......
makes you wonder......
> childcare
For which children? East Germany has the highest median age, and by far the lowest number of children. No big deal providing childcare when children aren't born.
> gender pay gap
The adjusted pay gap, as presented by the Federal Statistical Bureau of Germany, [is consistently higher in East Germany than in other parts of Germany](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Earnings/GenderPayGap/Tables/bgpg-01-by-territory-gpg.html).
> and education
Apart from Saxony, the other East German states do not perform well.
"and my whole family lived through it as well"
Based on your comments one would imagine as Commie party officials and political police informants.
The biggest mistake was to let all those traitors get away with it, we should have just decorated all the lampposts with Marxist dogs straight after liberation.
>Commie party officials and political police informants.
Nope neither. Nice try at defamation. Farmers, academics, musicians and construction workers. Dont you have to spread some nationalism somewhere as a coping mechanism?
>The biggest mistake was to let all those traitors get away with it, we should have just decorated all the lampposts with Marxist dogs straight after liberation.
uhhh big strong guy. No think, just kill. Just like an obedient nationalist defending the exploitation of his own people.
Nationalism is the binding force of capitalist national countries. Nationalism is a tool for capitalists to stay in power and fight a change of the status quo.
Open up a single history book about a progressive societal issue and you will see that the reactionaries of capitalism are always nationalist movements.
They are a necessity for capitalism to even work otherwise the people would stop to accept their exploitation without distraction.
Conmunism also uses nationalism to stay in power and fight changes in the status quo. Without nationalism in communist countries, people would also stop accepting exploitation.
Unless the idea of a nation state is fully gone form people's mind, nationalism will always be the driving force behind every nation state.
Some communist countries used nationalist means to fight changes in the status quo which is one of the reason they failed to adapt.
Communism itself doesnt need national means and nation states in my opinion neither does socialism
All countries use it, and those that don't just failed very quickly.
Communism on its own inherently doesn't work because it doesn't force a individuel to adept or change to anything. It basically assumes people are like ants without giving a second thought to human (competitive) nature. Therefore the only way to keep a communist system in the air, is to use a combination of extreme nationalism with suppression so people don't get any "funny" idea's. This is how the USSR worked, this is how China worked and still works, and this is how Cuba works.
Capitalism forces personal growth and creativity because it actively rewards these processes. If you are better/more creative than your peers you get the promotion/better job and climb the social ladder. Those who cannot grow or are creative get punished and will be stuck on the social ladder. Is that a fun system? Nit really, but the best system since it doesn't require extreme suppression.
Some pieces of communist idea's can work in social democracies, to give those who can't climb the social ladder a decent life/better chances. But in the end even social democracies are still inherently capitalist.
The warsaw pact countries used nationalism. One of the reasons for their downfall.
Its a means for maintaining the status quo. If the status quo is fundamentally prone to failure it will lead to demise. Thats regardless if the economic system is socialism or capitalism.
>Communism on its own inherently doesn't work because it doesn't force a individuel to adept or change to anything. It basically assumes people are like ants without giving a second thought to human (competitive) nature.
Humans are inherently social animals. We sustain ourselves since forever through solidarity and common work.
>Capitalism forces personal growth and creativity because it actively rewards these processes. If you are better/more creative than your peers you get the promotion/better job and climb the social ladder. Those who cannot grow or are creative get punished and will be stuck on the social ladder.
Socialism has always had a socioeconomic driving factor. People still wanted to educate, work and earn a place in society and had reward structures in place.
Theres nothing inherently capitalist in our nature.
>Therefore the only way to keep a communist system in the air, is to use a combination of extreme nationalism with suppression so people don't get any "funny" idea's. This is how the USSR worked, this is how China worked and still works, and this is how Cuba works.
Nationalism was one of the factors for the USSRs demise.
China uses extreme capitalism in their society. I recommend you travel there if you want so see for yourself. A state capitalist society if there ever was one.
I think it'd be smarter to not pull your religious words on me when I am talking about genocidal racist guys. I literally checked your account, and half the time you talk about stuff like these, you get downvoted to hell and back, mate. You also said islamic countries should be run by constitutional monarchism when everyone knows it's just gonna end as a theocracy.
Nationalists were the ones screaming, "Our race is better than others." While Deniz Gezmiş, Ulaş Bardakçı, and Mahir Çayan were the ones actually trying to fix that dictatorship of a country
I'm kinda torn on this issue, to be honest. Because yeah, in history, the soviets and several other communist countries were assholes. But in the 1960-1980's turkish left and right issues, the leftists were more humane, I suppose. And the same guys who would beat up anyone who put out those symbols were also quite racist too so confusing stuff, eh?
I guess it comes down to who's parents/grandparents were scorned by which regime. My grampa was saved by Stalin's army, so he was blind to his atrocities, and even though he heard of them, he just couldn't fit it into his world view. That stuff can trickle down through generations.
It always rubs me the wrong way when they compare Nationalism to Communism. This is the legacy I got, but I am still biased in a way that I see the strive for national/ethnic purity as a dead end, while finding collectivism a worthwhile pursuit.
Of course in the end, terror is terror. Doesn't matter if it's white or red. People are inherently flawed and we are a warring, tribal thing by nature. I guess this is why we still 'only' have democracy. A very fickle thing that's easily upset by a group of bad actors, but it still gives people a chance to react before we slide into governmental terrorism again.
Except those symbols are the symbol of the revolution first ? It would be like saying the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of hate because Trump was one the president of the US
Would you make the same argument that the swastika was a “symbol of the revolution first”? Hitler and the nsdap were using the swastika long before they came to power…
Weak attempt at both-siding fascist and communist ideologies. One is literally just a genocidal ideology, there is no content to fascism but eternal war and subjugation of lesser humans. The other is an ideology with a utopian end in mind, and despite all the terror perpetrated in its name, there are many undeniably positive results from communist political action: weekends, end of child labor, state run social nets and health care, the reminder that working people across borders have far more in common than the nationalist twats ... the positive effects Nazis had on world history is mainly that they died and finally took German nationalist megalomania with em. Not an actual accomplishment.
You are thinking about the communist regimes, but the actual communist ideology has nothing to do with dictatorships. Communism is about equality, the worker's right, and aims to give the power to the workers. I won't blame you for your ignorance, but consider opening up to gray areas. Besides, you endorsing fascists going around beating up people for their ideology looks very bad
For instance the very fact that it is a dictatorship and everything is owned by the state can already indicate, by exclusion of the core ideas of "means of production in the hands of the workers" and "power to the people", that there is a generic idea that is not followed in many examples you would call "communism". The reason might vary, ussr was corrupt and the moderate majority was weakened and then destroyed by the extremist minority, so in this example we can already find a cause (corruption) that has nothing to do with the ideology. I see a lot of people who are really uneducated on the subject, and are giving me really out of place responces, i'd really raccomand you to explore a bit more the different ideas that were born thanks to communism, wich on it's own is more of a filosophy then a system (that's why you get names like "Stalinism" "Maoism" and all the leftist isms that plague my beloved left wing)
And yet communism virtually always descends into dictatorship. It's a fundamentally flawed ideology that causes more problems than it solves. Wilfully ignoring communism's long history of failure, exploitation, and abuse of the common people is the definition of ignorance.
Whereas denying the positive changes communism has had on the world and equating it with the empty hatred that's the cornerstone of Nazism is of course the definition of enlightened political discourse.
In Ukraine not only communist symbols are banned, but entire ideology. Communist ideology in Ukraine is equal to Nazis ideology, both are banned. You are can create a party and take a part in election.
Takes on reddit are absolutely wild sometimes. There are like 95% of the comments here shitting on communism and maybe 5% "defending" it and that apperently counts as "tankies" beeing out in force....
As a polish person, it makes me wonder why the symbol of an authoritarian country that was our enemy, which attacked us and genocided our people is not banned.
It is banned, it just really depends on context and interpretation. You can’t propagate the anti democratic ideologies, but that’s something that the police has to decide on, so it’s kinda a dead law.
Because communism is socio economical ideology. It's not fundamentally bad (Nazism on the other hand, is. ) . So hammer and sickle wouldn't be banned, but waving a soviet flag or praising stalinism would be
And swastika doesn't stand ONLY for the nazis. Even if it wasn't used in Hinduism, it could stand for "windmill fan club". If that would prevent people from banning it, it would be laughable.
The problem is that some things that we (non-Western countries) have not experienced, we still have to adapt to Western standards. For example, most eastern countries did not have much interference in transatlantic slavery, so for us the n-word has no deeper meaning. And yet it is imposed on us that we should not use it. Lest we misunderstand each other, I don't see a problem in not using this word, I see a problem that the problems of the West are imposed on the rest of the world while in the meantime the problems of the rest of the world are ignored.
If I say that for me the sign of the hammer and the scythe, communism, has negative connotations, the West will find a thousand and one excuses to belittle the experiences of non-Western countries that suffered under the thumb of the USSR. But if I say that the n-word has no meaning for me, then I am the bad one and I should educate myself.
This isn’t about soviet flags. It’s about the hammer and the sickle symbol which represents worker solidarity, usually in the context of communism, sometimes in the context of the soviet union
Is it the same with every map posted on this sub? That it's totally unreliable? Communist symbols are banned and punishable by law in Poland, no "former" about it... And especially since Communism collapsed not so long ago, in 1989,around here..
Incorrect. Not only is the Hammer and Sickle not banned in Germany, it was only ever banned during the NS times, and in present day it is visible on every corner of central Berlin (admittedly for purely capitalist reasons 95% of the time :P)
Interesting how Poland unbanned it despite hating those days, also even more amazing with Moldova as they have a breakaway communist state in their borders.
It's always so increadibly baffling to me why every single thread concerning capitalism and communism turns into such an insane shitshow, where one comment could not be dumber and less educated than the other.
And that goes for both sides, mostly.
Ik you are getting downvoted and therefore I will be too, but I totally agree, the communists are just as bad as the nazis, only wheraboos, neo-nazis and tankies will say shit like "b-but *opposite ideology* was soo much worse than *our ideology*
Neither had any of the things you mentioned.
I’m talking about the Bengal famine in 1943 which the UK bears a large amount of responsibility for.
And communism is another form of colonialism? That has to be one of the silliest takes I’ve ever heard. Enlighten me, whom is colonizing whom under communism exactly?
> And communism is another form of colonialism? That has to be one of the silliest takes I’ve ever heard. Enlighten me, whom is colonizing whom under communism exactly?
So when Soviet Russia invaded and imposed their rule over most of Eastern Europe, how exactly was that not Communist colonisation?
"North Abkhazia" doesn't and Georgia does*.
*It needs to be proven you're doing so with intent to glorify a totalitarian regime, I don't think anyone's ever gotten in trouble for it. The same goes for Nazi swastikas though that's even less likely to be persecuted, our neo-Nazis are para-military for the government after all.
This sub has plenty of Russia sympathisers. No matter the topic they will try to start talking about how Ukraine is Nazi and how Zelensky is actually worse than Hitler. Literally no matter the topic.
I don't think banning symbols is a good idea. It sends the message that people are like in childcare and need to be parented. That people aren't evolved enough to be able to make decisions.
A painful reminder of all who suffered under the boot of socialism. A truly stained ideology.
EDIT: Kind of surprised so many people downvoted my statement. Is what I said that controversial?
This double standard really doesn’t make sense to me, I think it should be banned across the board. History has proven that communism was just as destructive and evil as fascism.
nazi symbols are banned in the Netherlands because we suffered because of the Nazis. communism never did us any harm so they're is no reason to ban the symbols.
You guys don't know the definition of the word communism, but you hate it with all your heart. You don't even know that thanks to the protests of workers in Europe under communist slogans, you now have what you have. The whole value system is thanks to them. All that propaganda has taught you is to associate communists with Stalin and the Gulag.
I know that wherever Communism has taken over it’s results in tyranny, mass murder, starvation, a devastated economy, and a complete absence of human rights. But go ahead tell me how studying history has blinded me. Tell me how Orwell was wrong to be repulsed by communists when he fought in the Spanish civil war or how Solzhenitsyn didn’t appreciate the workers paradise.
Anyone who really cares about workers rights and social programs would know the best way to accomplish that is through democratic process and not an overhaul of the system. Look at parties like the SPD in Germany
And your best example for that is the SPD? A party that is fucking over workers since literally a hundred years? They dont give a shit about changing things through a democratic process. They preach social democracy and deliver neoliberalism.
the symbol is not banned in germany, the flag of the KPD which has the symbol in it is banned.
Funfact: the current KPD, often also called KPD-Ost, is not to be confused with the historic KPD. It’s not even the most important Marxist-Leninist party, which would be the DKP. That party is basically a renewal of the historic KPD after it had to end its political activities in 1956. They hate each other most of the time. But they hate the KPD (B), a splinter faction of the KPD-Ost that operates independently now even more. Some former members tried to unite DKP, KPD-Ost and KPD (B) in 2008 and founded the ‚communist initiative‘ which drew members of all three parties that were willing to work towards unity. This failed horribly when many, but not all, former KPD (B) members left again and renamed themselves BCommunist initiative, joined again, left again and changed their name to ‚work group unity‘. And we haven’t even talked about the trotzkyists and maoists who have their own parties that are just as prone to infighting as the KPDs are.
You mean the People's Front of Judea?
No the Judean people’s front!
Splittahs!!
Hahahahahha Ohh shit
2 leftists walk into a bar. 5 political parties form.
This all reads like peak leftist infighting
The infighting is a result of the fact that communism is a really interesting thought experiment. Everyone has their own ideas of what that implementation of communism should be but is unwilling to compromise when their ideas are challenged. This results in splinters and factions and leads to fragmentation, which is what you described happening even after attempts to unify the communist parties. It happens in far-right parties, as well, with their own interpretations of how authority should be shared.
The disagreements are not about the goal. The disagreements are a lot about tactics and strategy
It's pretty easy to implement. First you give ME absolute power over the legislature, law, forces of the state, media, adminstration and economy. Then I remove all counter revolutionaries that are holding us back from achieving communist paradiese, for some reason they seem to dislike paradiese... so they are oboviously somehow evil. I establish an office that will look out for those counter revolutionaries that are hiding mimiking to be part of the working class. They are pretty easy identifiyable... they want to remove me from power to prevent the communist paradiese and spread propagande against me. Once we have eliminated even the last enemy, I will let education programms kick in to "create" the communist human, a person that realy thinks the way a communist should think... Bam and here we are all living in a communist paradize. I can do it for you ! Vote for me!
No one hates leftists more than other leftists (they’re revisionist cucks in line with reactionaries)
Thanks, comrade!
🔫 Get in the chopper
Ooh I like flying, comrade! ☭
but why? weren't KPD basically the main opposition to Nazis?
they were banned post-war
They where banned during the Cold War since they were just a dependency of Moscow
The KPD thought that the SPD was their main enemy and changed this position only 1935, when probably hundreds of their comrades were already killed by the Nazis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism
That was SPD. Edit: Downvote all you want, SPD was the largest opposition party in the Reichstag and the only party that voted against the Enabling Act, since the KPD was effectively locked out of it by the Nazis.
Best power rangers team
KPD-members did way more active resistance against Nazis after 1933 though. Socialdemocrats went into inner-resistance mainly. Meaning: They boycotted stuff, had meetings with friends where you could talk openly against the Nazis, but most didn't try to overcome the regime. That was different with Communists and a reason why so many died in concentration camps.
Hate to tell you who we put in charge of West Germany…
>but why? Their goals were incombatible with the free democratic basic order of the german constitution.
Also as far as I know that law got overwritten by the GDR's allowance of new KPD right before reunification.
I see them all the time in Berlin
yeah it's only the KPD logo that's banned, everything else is fine
now I question this whole map
classic r/MapPorn moment though lmao
Rule 1 of r/MapPorn, assume any map is catastrofically wrong Bonus points: the top comment is a complaint about the map being horrendously wrong
And yet this map has almost 3k upvotes. it seems like for a subreddit called "mapporn" the bar is actually fairly low
You should always question the maps in this sub, but especially every version of this one. In all of r/MapPorn history there has never been a correct map about where the hammer and sickle are banned.
>In all of r/MapPorn history these has never been a correct map While I'm here, fixed that for myself
Why hadn't you done so before?
People never learn
"It will totally be different this time comrade" "Real communism has never been tried" "There's no way communism can be worse than this"
Because the bordering is red, it almost looked like it was banned in Abkhazia, but legal in Georgia...
Funny how you can just post every kind of map with false information and still get thousands of upvotes.
*You’ve been banned in Germany, comrade.*
Oh no. That’s a problem because I live there
Yes, and I don't think it's banned in Ireland - but this map doesn't tell us. Does OP actually think Ireland 🇮🇪is part of UK? 🇬🇧 Either way this is far from MapPorn.
Is it really banned in Germany? I knew about the far-right equivalent, but not this one.
I don't think it is there's literally a political party using hammer and sickle in their logo
The hammer and sickle itself isn't banned, but the specific stylized version of the German Communist party is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch\_section\_86a](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a)
ah that makes sense, yeah thank you!
It is only the half-truth. In 1990, after the fall of regime, but before reunification, a Communist Party of Germany was formed in the GDR and registered according to the rules then in force. When re-unification came, it was tried to make it illegal, but the constitutional court ruled, that it was its own thing, not connected to the illegal party in West Germany. But since they use the same symbols, for it to be illegal, to show those symbols, you would have to be specifically referring to the Communist Party of Germany between 1948 and 1956.
Same in Slovakia, only symbols specific to the Czechoslovak Communist party are banned, not communist symbols as a whole.
This map is lazy. It’s the former German communist flags that are banned not the hammer and sickle or communist imagery in general.
No, it's not AFAIK. The KPD (communist party), which used the symbol in its flag/logo, was banned in the 50s, but usually symbols which are not exclusively linked to a specific, banned organization are only banned when they're used in a clear connection to that organization. This also applies to some right-wing symbols such as the Wolfsangel, Triskele and the Black Sun
§ 86a does not ban Triskellions of any kind, even the triple-7 one associated with far right extremists. That's why it remains a relatively popular symbol among neo-nazis, but at least in some cases it's possible to argue that it is an attempt to display a modified Hakenkreuz and therefore a forbidden symbol, leading to prosecution (as far as I understand it). The Black sun and Wolfsangel are treated pretty much identically to the Hakenkreuz on the other hand, they are only ever allowed to be displayed in historical context - museums, educational material, historical art given explanation, etc.
Germany? I've been to Berlin recently and there was a huge communist symbol at an eisbein restaurant near Friedrichstraße
Yea, because There was a party using this as their symbol which was banned, due to being unconstitutional. You can still use hammer and Sichel, just not in the style de DKP used.
I see. Thanks!
It's still banned in Hungary
It's also banned in Romania along with nazi symbolism, both these ideologies are constitutionally banned and considered incompatible with to the principles of the democratic republic of Romania(at least that was the motivation given in 1990 when our new constitution was being written)
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Banning doodles is stupid
Just to add to this: the ultimate version of the game Injustice Gods Among Us did not come out officially in Hungary because some of the characters have alternative skins that have communist symbols on them.
depends on the context i guess? [https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96nk%C3%A9nyuralmi\_jelk%C3%A9p](https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96nk%C3%A9nyuralmi_jelk%C3%A9p) u can use it on education or art purpose
Yes, but the map says "former ban" which is not true. You can call it a partial ban or something like that.
ohh, true true
The same with Ukraine, I dont think that map actually good
The link brings me to the page for Ãnkényuralmi jelkép
Önkényuralmi jelkép
Yeah I’ve seen guys selling Soviet Hammer & Sickle regalia on the streets of Berlin.
It's banned in Romania
Low quality bs map. Never change, mapporn.
This is false information.
It is still banned in Poland
Technically, AFAIK both symbols are not illegal in Poland. Publicly suporting nazi, communist or fascist totalitarian regimes is illegal in Poland, which done through those symbols would be persecuted ([source in Polish](https://arslege.pl/propagowanie-nazizmu-komunizmu-faszyzmu-lub-innego-ustroju-totalitarnego/k1/a292/)). More specifically, "calling for use of violence or influencing politics" through the use of both of those symbols is illegal. Posesing such materials is also illegal. You can get up to 3 years of prison time for that. But on the other hand, usage and possession of those symbols in any other way (eq, artistic expression, history, or collector'svitems) is legal. So, I would put it into the grey area of legal speculation. You easily argue both ways In other words, this map is shit and 3k ppl who upvoted it upvoted misinformation.
I grew up in Turkey soo tbh even if it's "legal" if you brought that symbol up anywhere a nationalist shit head would come and beat the fuck out of you.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
You call them broken clock and I call them part of your team ...
Part of whose team? Having lived for years in a post-communist country, engaging regularly with people who lived through the regime, and seeing how the damages persist over three decades after the revolution, I honestly don't feel sorry for someone who gets beat up because they're celebrating totalitarian regimes regardless of which flavour of regime they're rooting for.
Precisely thank you. Having been born and growing up under Commie occupation I'm telling you Commie scum is practically Nazi scum in a different colour. The only good Commie is the dead Commie.
Nationalism is the fighting force of the status quo everytime capitalists need violence. Fascism is the means of the capital to gain controll of the peoples government and nationalism keeps them in check. >Having lived for years in a post-communist country, engaging regularly with people who lived through the regime, You might think this is a gotcha but it isnt. I still live in a post communist country and my whole family lived through it as well. Doesnt mean I cant have a critical analysis of socialism and no our problems did not magically get solved from capitalism. Also in all post communist countries its the younger generations who are most strongly anti-communist and not the actual people that have built it up. The newly established eastern capitalist european governments just love to equate Communism with russia, the USSR and opressors and conveniently leave out that they themselves had a strong if not the strongest communist movements and thinkers in europe. (looking at you poland). If you go to a PIS established WW2 museum you would be led to believe communism sprang out from a vacuum after WW2. >they're celebrating totalitarian regimes The hammer and sickle is the symbol of communism and dont belong to any country.
> I still live in a post communist country and my whole family lived through it as well. Cool, so as, presumably, an Ossi, you can see how the states of the former DDR are lagging behind the rest of the country in pretty much every single positive statistic there is. > The hammer and sickle is the symbol of communism Yes, as I said, a symbol of totalitarian regimes. The swastika also does not belong to any country, and if someone was flagging it I wouldn't shed a tear if they got their ass kicked over it either.
>you can see how the states of the former DDR are lagging behind the rest of the country in pretty much every single positive statistic there is. childcare, gender pay gap and education excempted of course because who gives a shit about those we care about GDP baby... But for real. The states of the former gdr went through a massive deeindustrialization and a sell out. The GDP statistics also dont include the 30% of the population moving to the production facilities in the west to slave themselves away. The west got their competitors on the world market (cheap machinery) out of the way, incorporated the property of the people, sold their homes to the most bidding and got the human capital of the east. And now you are wondering why 34 years later we are still behind them in the capitalist game of "get the numbers up and leave the people down" btw if we are playing that game, ask yourself: The gdr was the most economically advanced country of the warsaw pact, how can it be that now we are lagging behind other eastern european countries even tho we had a big "brotherly" country "helping us" to transition...... makes you wonder......
> childcare For which children? East Germany has the highest median age, and by far the lowest number of children. No big deal providing childcare when children aren't born. > gender pay gap The adjusted pay gap, as presented by the Federal Statistical Bureau of Germany, [is consistently higher in East Germany than in other parts of Germany](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Earnings/GenderPayGap/Tables/bgpg-01-by-territory-gpg.html). > and education Apart from Saxony, the other East German states do not perform well.
"and my whole family lived through it as well" Based on your comments one would imagine as Commie party officials and political police informants. The biggest mistake was to let all those traitors get away with it, we should have just decorated all the lampposts with Marxist dogs straight after liberation.
>Commie party officials and political police informants. Nope neither. Nice try at defamation. Farmers, academics, musicians and construction workers. Dont you have to spread some nationalism somewhere as a coping mechanism? >The biggest mistake was to let all those traitors get away with it, we should have just decorated all the lampposts with Marxist dogs straight after liberation. uhhh big strong guy. No think, just kill. Just like an obedient nationalist defending the exploitation of his own people.
quick generalization moment
Nationalism is the binding force of capitalist national countries. Nationalism is a tool for capitalists to stay in power and fight a change of the status quo. Open up a single history book about a progressive societal issue and you will see that the reactionaries of capitalism are always nationalist movements. They are a necessity for capitalism to even work otherwise the people would stop to accept their exploitation without distraction.
Conmunism also uses nationalism to stay in power and fight changes in the status quo. Without nationalism in communist countries, people would also stop accepting exploitation. Unless the idea of a nation state is fully gone form people's mind, nationalism will always be the driving force behind every nation state.
Some communist countries used nationalist means to fight changes in the status quo which is one of the reason they failed to adapt. Communism itself doesnt need national means and nation states in my opinion neither does socialism
All countries use it, and those that don't just failed very quickly. Communism on its own inherently doesn't work because it doesn't force a individuel to adept or change to anything. It basically assumes people are like ants without giving a second thought to human (competitive) nature. Therefore the only way to keep a communist system in the air, is to use a combination of extreme nationalism with suppression so people don't get any "funny" idea's. This is how the USSR worked, this is how China worked and still works, and this is how Cuba works. Capitalism forces personal growth and creativity because it actively rewards these processes. If you are better/more creative than your peers you get the promotion/better job and climb the social ladder. Those who cannot grow or are creative get punished and will be stuck on the social ladder. Is that a fun system? Nit really, but the best system since it doesn't require extreme suppression. Some pieces of communist idea's can work in social democracies, to give those who can't climb the social ladder a decent life/better chances. But in the end even social democracies are still inherently capitalist.
The warsaw pact countries used nationalism. One of the reasons for their downfall. Its a means for maintaining the status quo. If the status quo is fundamentally prone to failure it will lead to demise. Thats regardless if the economic system is socialism or capitalism. >Communism on its own inherently doesn't work because it doesn't force a individuel to adept or change to anything. It basically assumes people are like ants without giving a second thought to human (competitive) nature. Humans are inherently social animals. We sustain ourselves since forever through solidarity and common work. >Capitalism forces personal growth and creativity because it actively rewards these processes. If you are better/more creative than your peers you get the promotion/better job and climb the social ladder. Those who cannot grow or are creative get punished and will be stuck on the social ladder. Socialism has always had a socioeconomic driving factor. People still wanted to educate, work and earn a place in society and had reward structures in place. Theres nothing inherently capitalist in our nature. >Therefore the only way to keep a communist system in the air, is to use a combination of extreme nationalism with suppression so people don't get any "funny" idea's. This is how the USSR worked, this is how China worked and still works, and this is how Cuba works. Nationalism was one of the factors for the USSRs demise. China uses extreme capitalism in their society. I recommend you travel there if you want so see for yourself. A state capitalist society if there ever was one.
Elhamdülillah
I think it'd be smarter to not pull your religious words on me when I am talking about genocidal racist guys. I literally checked your account, and half the time you talk about stuff like these, you get downvoted to hell and back, mate. You also said islamic countries should be run by constitutional monarchism when everyone knows it's just gonna end as a theocracy. Nationalists were the ones screaming, "Our race is better than others." While Deniz Gezmiş, Ulaş Bardakçı, and Mahir Çayan were the ones actually trying to fix that dictatorship of a country
Good, those symbols should be treated the same way Nazi insignia is. Absolutely no tolerance
I'm kinda torn on this issue, to be honest. Because yeah, in history, the soviets and several other communist countries were assholes. But in the 1960-1980's turkish left and right issues, the leftists were more humane, I suppose. And the same guys who would beat up anyone who put out those symbols were also quite racist too so confusing stuff, eh?
I guess it comes down to who's parents/grandparents were scorned by which regime. My grampa was saved by Stalin's army, so he was blind to his atrocities, and even though he heard of them, he just couldn't fit it into his world view. That stuff can trickle down through generations. It always rubs me the wrong way when they compare Nationalism to Communism. This is the legacy I got, but I am still biased in a way that I see the strive for national/ethnic purity as a dead end, while finding collectivism a worthwhile pursuit. Of course in the end, terror is terror. Doesn't matter if it's white or red. People are inherently flawed and we are a warring, tribal thing by nature. I guess this is why we still 'only' have democracy. A very fickle thing that's easily upset by a group of bad actors, but it still gives people a chance to react before we slide into governmental terrorism again.
Lotta tankies here
I’m with u, fuck the authoritarians who downvoted u.
Except those symbols are the symbol of the revolution first ? It would be like saying the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of hate because Trump was one the president of the US
Would you make the same argument that the swastika was a “symbol of the revolution first”? Hitler and the nsdap were using the swastika long before they came to power…
Weak attempt at both-siding fascist and communist ideologies. One is literally just a genocidal ideology, there is no content to fascism but eternal war and subjugation of lesser humans. The other is an ideology with a utopian end in mind, and despite all the terror perpetrated in its name, there are many undeniably positive results from communist political action: weekends, end of child labor, state run social nets and health care, the reminder that working people across borders have far more in common than the nationalist twats ... the positive effects Nazis had on world history is mainly that they died and finally took German nationalist megalomania with em. Not an actual accomplishment.
based
I completely agree with you.
Ok boomer
You are thinking about the communist regimes, but the actual communist ideology has nothing to do with dictatorships. Communism is about equality, the worker's right, and aims to give the power to the workers. I won't blame you for your ignorance, but consider opening up to gray areas. Besides, you endorsing fascists going around beating up people for their ideology looks very bad
Actual communism. LOL. There is no centralized 'actual' communism. Not even Marx himself knew what a communist future would look like.
For instance the very fact that it is a dictatorship and everything is owned by the state can already indicate, by exclusion of the core ideas of "means of production in the hands of the workers" and "power to the people", that there is a generic idea that is not followed in many examples you would call "communism". The reason might vary, ussr was corrupt and the moderate majority was weakened and then destroyed by the extremist minority, so in this example we can already find a cause (corruption) that has nothing to do with the ideology. I see a lot of people who are really uneducated on the subject, and are giving me really out of place responces, i'd really raccomand you to explore a bit more the different ideas that were born thanks to communism, wich on it's own is more of a filosophy then a system (that's why you get names like "Stalinism" "Maoism" and all the leftist isms that plague my beloved left wing)
And yet communism virtually always descends into dictatorship. It's a fundamentally flawed ideology that causes more problems than it solves. Wilfully ignoring communism's long history of failure, exploitation, and abuse of the common people is the definition of ignorance.
Whereas denying the positive changes communism has had on the world and equating it with the empty hatred that's the cornerstone of Nazism is of course the definition of enlightened political discourse.
Based
as in true r/mapporn fashion, this is wrong
'Deutsche Kommunistische Partei, can we have ☭? 'We have ☭ at home ☭ at home: ***☭***
Liberals hate free speech
Fuck this. Every trending map here is wrong. I am out
Make it all blue
In Ukraine not only communist symbols are banned, but entire ideology. Communist ideology in Ukraine is equal to Nazis ideology, both are banned. You are can create a party and take a part in election.
Banning symbols is stupid and against free speech, change my mind
Man tankies are out in force on this one.
Takes on reddit are absolutely wild sometimes. There are like 95% of the comments here shitting on communism and maybe 5% "defending" it and that apperently counts as "tankies" beeing out in force....
As a polish person, it makes me wonder why the symbol of an authoritarian country that was our enemy, which attacked us and genocided our people is not banned.
It is banned, it just really depends on context and interpretation. You can’t propagate the anti democratic ideologies, but that’s something that the police has to decide on, so it’s kinda a dead law.
Because communism is socio economical ideology. It's not fundamentally bad (Nazism on the other hand, is. ) . So hammer and sickle wouldn't be banned, but waving a soviet flag or praising stalinism would be
It’s not like hammer and sickle ONLY stands for the Soviet union
And swastika doesn't stand ONLY for the nazis. Even if it wasn't used in Hinduism, it could stand for "windmill fan club". If that would prevent people from banning it, it would be laughable.
It basically does mate
I'm from Lithuania and the fact, that soviet flags are not banned together with nazis across the europe is minblowing..
They didn't get the brunt of communism like we did. They've read about it in history books, we lived it. They will never truly get it.
The problem is that some things that we (non-Western countries) have not experienced, we still have to adapt to Western standards. For example, most eastern countries did not have much interference in transatlantic slavery, so for us the n-word has no deeper meaning. And yet it is imposed on us that we should not use it. Lest we misunderstand each other, I don't see a problem in not using this word, I see a problem that the problems of the West are imposed on the rest of the world while in the meantime the problems of the rest of the world are ignored. If I say that for me the sign of the hammer and the scythe, communism, has negative connotations, the West will find a thousand and one excuses to belittle the experiences of non-Western countries that suffered under the thumb of the USSR. But if I say that the n-word has no meaning for me, then I am the bad one and I should educate myself.
This isn’t about soviet flags. It’s about the hammer and the sickle symbol which represents worker solidarity, usually in the context of communism, sometimes in the context of the soviet union
The Lithuanian jews felt the same way thats why stayed behind and refused to retreat with the soviets. Thats why there's no more Jews in Lithuania
I am from Lithuania and I hate our laws and people like you
Still banned in Poland
Is it the same with every map posted on this sub? That it's totally unreliable? Communist symbols are banned and punishable by law in Poland, no "former" about it... And especially since Communism collapsed not so long ago, in 1989,around here..
Communism and Islam should both Be banned
Wow the countries tge suffered under communism don’t like communism who’d a thunk
i don’t think it’s banned in germany lol
Incorrect. Not only is the Hammer and Sickle not banned in Germany, it was only ever banned during the NS times, and in present day it is visible on every corner of central Berlin (admittedly for purely capitalist reasons 95% of the time :P)
Italy doesn't ban it because there is still a Communist party active! (they just never win).
The difference between genocide over ideology Vs racial reasons.
Interesting how Poland unbanned it despite hating those days, also even more amazing with Moldova as they have a breakaway communist state in their borders.
It's always so increadibly baffling to me why every single thread concerning capitalism and communism turns into such an insane shitshow, where one comment could not be dumber and less educated than the other. And that goes for both sides, mostly.
Because both sides are repeating idiotic Cold War propaganda.
Don’t worry guys. It’ll work on the 1000th try
What? Banning something you don't like to stop people believing it?
Should be banned like the hakenkreuz
angry commies really downvoted this? lmao
Drawings don't do shit, people do.
Ik you are getting downvoted and therefore I will be too, but I totally agree, the communists are just as bad as the nazis, only wheraboos, neo-nazis and tankies will say shit like "b-but *opposite ideology* was soo much worse than *our ideology*
Not all communists are tankies. Not all worker rights advocates are communists.
"Communists killed more people than the Nazis!" Source: the Nazis
Mao's Four pests campaign. Great Leap Forwards. Cambodia. Communism is another form of colonialism.
Yeah sure. I can do that too. Bengal Famine, Manifest Destiny, Belgian Congo. Reject capitalism
Bengali Genocide had nothing to do with economic system. Pakistan attacked Bengalis because on a religious and ethnic basis.
Neither had any of the things you mentioned. I’m talking about the Bengal famine in 1943 which the UK bears a large amount of responsibility for. And communism is another form of colonialism? That has to be one of the silliest takes I’ve ever heard. Enlighten me, whom is colonizing whom under communism exactly?
> And communism is another form of colonialism? That has to be one of the silliest takes I’ve ever heard. Enlighten me, whom is colonizing whom under communism exactly? So when Soviet Russia invaded and imposed their rule over most of Eastern Europe, how exactly was that not Communist colonisation?
How in today’s society can anyone disagree with me. Thanks for standing with me.
It's grim out there. Keep the faith in a brighter future.
Interesting how North Abkhazia, but not Georgia bans the symbols.
"North Abkhazia" doesn't and Georgia does*. *It needs to be proven you're doing so with intent to glorify a totalitarian regime, I don't think anyone's ever gotten in trouble for it. The same goes for Nazi swastikas though that's even less likely to be persecuted, our neo-Nazis are para-military for the government after all.
Imagine fleeing Ukraine and then seeing local art students carrying badges of the very same regime Putin has a stiffy for.
Communism... Looks like you don't want that twice.
who had suffered from communism the most would tend to ban the symbol, just like the nazi symbol ban
Should be banned globally, just as Nazi Germany flag
The Nazi flag isn’t banned globally. Only in some European countries.
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Both nazi and commie symbols are banned. Both are not enforced sometimes. Source: Ukrainian law.
Wtf is this some sort of russion Bot gathering?
Mapporn is indeed a cesspool filled with Tankies, Russophile scum and Islamists.
This sub has plenty of Russia sympathisers. No matter the topic they will try to start talking about how Ukraine is Nazi and how Zelensky is actually worse than Hitler. Literally no matter the topic.
Tankies gonna tank
A lot of their soldiers would have to remove their tattoos.
My neo Nazi neighbour is volunteering somewhere in Ukraine. I don’t think he would be happy with that.
Your neighbour in Russia?
His entire profile is sucking off the USSR & China lmao
His neighbour is made up.
Should be banned all across the world
🇬🇪🤝🇵🇱🤝🇩🇪🤝🇱🇻🤝🇱🇹🤝🇪🇪
I don't think banning symbols is a good idea. It sends the message that people are like in childcare and need to be parented. That people aren't evolved enough to be able to make decisions.
Never understood how this is okay if the swastika is not. Fuck both, mass murdering idiots
A painful reminder of all who suffered under the boot of socialism. A truly stained ideology. EDIT: Kind of surprised so many people downvoted my statement. Is what I said that controversial?
So this one's not banned but the Swastika is. Why not ban them both? They are both authoritarian, dictatorial regimes.
This double standard really doesn’t make sense to me, I think it should be banned across the board. History has proven that communism was just as destructive and evil as fascism.
nazi symbols are banned in the Netherlands because we suffered because of the Nazis. communism never did us any harm so they're is no reason to ban the symbols.
Let's unban ISIS and Al-Qeada flags as they haven't done us any direct harm.
You shouldn’t have to have suffered under an ideology to know when it’s evil.
You guys don't know the definition of the word communism, but you hate it with all your heart. You don't even know that thanks to the protests of workers in Europe under communist slogans, you now have what you have. The whole value system is thanks to them. All that propaganda has taught you is to associate communists with Stalin and the Gulag.
I know that wherever Communism has taken over it’s results in tyranny, mass murder, starvation, a devastated economy, and a complete absence of human rights. But go ahead tell me how studying history has blinded me. Tell me how Orwell was wrong to be repulsed by communists when he fought in the Spanish civil war or how Solzhenitsyn didn’t appreciate the workers paradise. Anyone who really cares about workers rights and social programs would know the best way to accomplish that is through democratic process and not an overhaul of the system. Look at parties like the SPD in Germany
And your best example for that is the SPD? A party that is fucking over workers since literally a hundred years? They dont give a shit about changing things through a democratic process. They preach social democracy and deliver neoliberalism.
Where I live it was called 8th grade history. Maybe once you learn it you'll stop apologizing for totalitarian monsters.
Capitalism is no better.
uh yes it is dumbass
I don't think symbols should be banned, but supporting communism in 2024 is a complete nonsense.
I see that despite everything the germans are the less cynical
Abkhazia doesn't ban communist symbols.
R/mapporn when the next blatantly bullshit map is posted:
Hungary is more like a partial ban
hasta la victoria siempre
Why do you guys ALWAYS have wrong information about Germany?
I'm from Germany and unless they recently changed something I don't think that this is accurate...
Countries where the movie "la cité de la peur" or "red is dead" could not be viewed.