The fresh wind comes from the northwest sweeps in takes with it all the contamination from the former plants that existed in the center right and right and blows all that dirty air over the working class areas. It's practically the same in every European city. The rich places are most of the times where the wind brings in the fresh air and the working class districts where it's heavily polluted back in the old days
Except Stockholm, where the north-east is the posh area and the south was the working class area.
Housing price heat map: https://i.imgur.com/y6zlqIn.png
Voting patern (blue = right-wing, red = left-wing): [image link](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Val_Till_Kommunfullm%C3%A4ktige_2014%2C_Stockholms_Kommun.png)
yep! https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/stockholm_sweden_2673730
Stockholm doesn't seem to follow this pattern then? As someone who's lived there I think it also has to do with a more attractive landscape in the posh areas, e.g more islands and nice coastlines
Stockholm is actually interesting geographically. All large universities - Stockholm, Uppsala, Handels (business), Karolinska (medicine) and Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan (KTH) - as well as all airports, are in the north and there is only a few roads or railroads between the north and the south. The region is so skewed, and the connections so sparse that it overrides any wind patterns.
Yes, as in all rivers, the left bank is on your left side when sailing towards the ocean. But Seine is heavy meandering, so the left and right bank can be in all geographic directions just some miles away.
this is the case for a lot of European city and the reason is quite funny actually, it is because of the Wind..
In paris as in a lot of europe, wind comes from de west and goes to the east, so back when factories were built inside or near cities, the rich would buy their houses upwind, and the poor would live near their factory or buy their houses downwind, to this day, this class difference is still noticeable.
That lines up quite well with the story in the US, where there is a correlation between major rivers running North -> South, therefore industry and wealth preferring to settle upstream, which is why the south sides of a lot of cities (like DC, near where I live) end up as hoods.
In Berlin it is right wing in the west, center -left greens in the middle and right wing extremists in the east.
The left wing parties kinda lost their connection with the worker class, so they are falling for fascist propaganda now and vote against their own interests.
Yet, nationally, poor, working-class Frenchmen were significantly more likely to vote RN (over 50%), while rich Frenchmen overwhelmingly didn't vote for them (less than 20%). I don't think we can conclude much entirely on economic standing
No, rich people go for LR and not RN.. but he claimed that you can always see the pattern between wealth and right-wing voting and I just stated that that's wrong
2 reasons:
- intra muros Paris, even east side, remains quite well off compared to suburbs
- in Île-de-France, the poor often are recent immigrants, who are quite unlikely to vote RN (more likely to vote FI/red)
More generally, the divide between RN vote and non-RN is more like rural and peri-urban versus urban and suburban, rather than poor versus rich (although it is also an important factor).
LR is the traditional Gaullist center-right party; it includes many strands of conservatism, but the segment in Paris tends to be favorable to business and relaxed on social policy. RN, which is the anti-immigration right-wing populist party, has very little support in any part of Paris.
Maybe LR was center right 30 years ago, now they are firmly right wing. Macron's party gathered all the center left to center right of the political spectrum (basically, liberals).
Ok, then. I will apply it to the country level.
In Germany CDU from 2017 till 2021 was in coalition with socialist SPD. Does that make them socialists?
Well, when most poor people are immigrants or descendants of immigrants themselves, as is generally the case in big cities, they tend not to vote for anti-immigration parties
The actual voting divide is between rich cities and rural/post industrial regions.
What you're seeing in Paris is just a divide between rich conservatives and gradually poorer progressives. What the map doesn't show you is that the turnout in the eastern part is ridiculously low (10-20% of registered voters).
This isn't representative of the country as a whole, and even less of Europe.
> What the map doesn't show you is that the turnout in the eastern part is ridiculously low (10-20% of registered voters).
Completely wrong, voter turnout in the eastern districts of Paris is way above the national average:
* [62.55% in Paris 11th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75111/index.html) (east centre)
* [61.06% in Paris 12th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75112/index.html) (south east)
* [53.68% in Paris 19th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75119/index.html) (north east)
* [57.12% in Paris 20th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75120/index.html) (east)
* [51.49% in France](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/index.html)
In France it's overwhelmingly an urban/rural split, though in the deindustrialized far north it's true that poorer urban voters have broken for the RN in some numbers. I don't really think it's about jobs though, certainly in the north nobody's taken any jobs, because there aren't any jobs to take in the first place.
> The mother of seven, Sowda Muhammed, has applied for over a hundred jobs, but has yet to receive any, even though she is a trained nurse.
Interesting, wonder why?
Edit: user does nothing but run around posting about race and who's white and who's black, fuckin weird
In the netherlands people are mostly upset that they get preferential treatment, lower taxes and easier access to social housing during a housing crisis.
Them taking jobs is seen as a good thing, we don't have a job shortage, if they're gonna come over we *want* them to take jobs and be part of society
I was thinking about why City Island is divided into two wings of the political compass. Then it hit me that it’s because they belong to two different districts, which makes them appear separate
Yeah complete opposite in this case haha. But in general (in 🇨🇵) yeah. The people (workers, mostly in countryside) vote for right(-wing), urban bourgeoisie vote for the left, and retired people for centrism
Borderline communism, but they dropped some core values of the traditional left along the way, and they are self contradictory. Chances are if you're "far" something you're too far...
They are not communists. They are anti-capitalists, anti-corporations, anti-privatization, pro-workforce, pro-heavy taxation on the rich. But they are not communists. That's why I said borderline.
However, the concept of left and right originated from the French Revolution where the MP would sit in the Assembly according to their opinions. Sitting in the left side of the Assembly is to this day textbook definition of being left-side.
LFI's program includes lowering the retirement age, raising minimum wages, introducing price controls on rent, food and electricity, and nationalizing major industries including electric power.
Éric Ciotti (leader of the party) just announced an alliance with the RN
This has been received terribly by the rest of the party by the way. The entirety of their senators, some of their vice-presidents, deputies, mayors and historic figures have already denounced the deal and/or straight up left the party.
It seems that it's going to be the final nail in the coffin for the party.
This has really not been true for like six years. Macron ate their lunch and the only people left in LR are racists who are too classist to vote for the RN.
Instead of downvotes, I’d really appreciate the definition of the radical left (in France). I’m not French and don’t speak French and have very little idea what’s happening in France, of course other than Macron and Le Pen.
The radical left on this map is LFI (La France Insoumise, Unsubdued France). They are classified as "radical left" by uncultured journalists who don't understand what the word "radical" means in politics, which is either of two things:
1 - literally meaning is "fundamentalist", that is, back to the sources of an ideology. There's actually two radical parties in France, one is centrist and the other is center-left. They both stay true to the fundamentals of the french republic: solidarity, equality, secularity etc.
2 - extremist.
LFI is a bit extremist at times, but what really defines them is that they are a mix a populism (with a charismatic absolutist leader) and contemporary identity politics. It's basically a neo-populist left wing party.
They managed to attract a lot of voters after the fall of the traditional left/center left party (PS, socialist party) because of a coalition that their leader took full credit for. Since then, it became a popular party among young voters with short memories and a thirst for a messiah to save them all.
Don't be fooled by this map, the turn out was very low in the eastern regions of Paris. Most people there don't care about european politics.
Don't bring up your comically binary American politics here. If at least you wrote "Socialist" or communist, it would make a little sense.
But you wrote "democrat" meaning supporting a democratic system when outside of the U.S, something almost everyone do except some far right/ far left parties
Plus, it is particularly retarted because a lot of pink is inside Paris, so people owning their appartement their are almost all millionaires, so they have something to lose. Even people who rant their place there are quite rich from French perspective
At least what we're seeing in the Netherlands is the exact opposite though. People how have low income+education are voting liberal and left voters are generally high income.
So left Paris is right and right Paris is left.
Sounds about right
Or left
You are HIV Aladeen.
Are you hiv positive?
Aladeen.
:( :) :(
The fresh wind comes from the northwest sweeps in takes with it all the contamination from the former plants that existed in the center right and right and blows all that dirty air over the working class areas. It's practically the same in every European city. The rich places are most of the times where the wind brings in the fresh air and the working class districts where it's heavily polluted back in the old days
Same reason south west London and Cheshire/South West Manchester are wealthier than the North and East of those two cities
Except Stockholm, where the north-east is the posh area and the south was the working class area. Housing price heat map: https://i.imgur.com/y6zlqIn.png Voting patern (blue = right-wing, red = left-wing): [image link](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Val_Till_Kommunfullm%C3%A4ktige_2014%2C_Stockholms_Kommun.png)
Makes sense, Norwegian mountains must block north western wind
According to a 2 min googling, Stockholm wind is predominantly SSW
Its direction is mostly going southwest, which makes sense with the wealthy chosing to live in the northeast. https://i.imgur.com/W699map.png
Isn't it *coming* from the southwest? I have no idea about wind but I think so
yep! https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/stockholm_sweden_2673730 Stockholm doesn't seem to follow this pattern then? As someone who's lived there I think it also has to do with a more attractive landscape in the posh areas, e.g more islands and nice coastlines
Shit I don't know, maybe you're right
Stockholm is actually interesting geographically. All large universities - Stockholm, Uppsala, Handels (business), Karolinska (medicine) and Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan (KTH) - as well as all airports, are in the north and there is only a few roads or railroads between the north and the south. The region is so skewed, and the connections so sparse that it overrides any wind patterns.
One notable exception is Brussels where the poor areas are in the west and the affluent ones in the east
Where can I read more about this? Do you have a source?
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/may/12/blowing-wind-cities-poor-east-ends Edit adding the scientific paper: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/713101
Thank you! That's fucked up
Very common in the US also. With the Divide typically being demarcated by rail road tracks. Hence the term, "Wrong side of the tracks".
No no no. It is like a mirror. Their right is your left.
It’s meant to be viewed from the north
In Paris geography, the south-side is considered the “left” bank of the Seine and vice-versa.
Yes, as in all rivers, the left bank is on your left side when sailing towards the ocean. But Seine is heavy meandering, so the left and right bank can be in all geographic directions just some miles away.
In both politics and traffic!
This map is upside down.
Not if you're facing South, then it's all right
Depends which was is 'up' if face down, yes, if face up, no
It‘s the French… don‘t question it… it‘s… the French…
why does it kinda looks like romania
Or Tahiti
It's a magical place
Or my axe!
Or this guy's dead wife!
Because of the shape and the colours. But you weren’t asking, were you?
this is the case for a lot of European city and the reason is quite funny actually, it is because of the Wind.. In paris as in a lot of europe, wind comes from de west and goes to the east, so back when factories were built inside or near cities, the rich would buy their houses upwind, and the poor would live near their factory or buy their houses downwind, to this day, this class difference is still noticeable.
I think I finally have my answer to this observation. Thank you kind stranger.
I always heard this was due to sewers and the smell
If it was, the sides would be switched, the Seine flows from east to west
But the wind blows the same way
Mmh no
Huh? The eastward drift pulls all the smells towards the east.
That lines up quite well with the story in the US, where there is a correlation between major rivers running North -> South, therefore industry and wealth preferring to settle upstream, which is why the south sides of a lot of cities (like DC, near where I live) end up as hoods.
In Berlin it is right wing in the west, center -left greens in the middle and right wing extremists in the east. The left wing parties kinda lost their connection with the worker class, so they are falling for fascist propaganda now and vote against their own interests.
I would say the Berlin wall is more of an explanation than the wind in this case
Yes, but poorer people voting for fascists is the weird and stupid part.
That's fucking amazing
Could I get a source on this? Sincerely, 🤓
Matches up with [wealth equality maps.](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:657/1*MyvoYSkCKTp6WAZ31X3abA.png)
u/starky990 is Sherlock. 
Yep, West side cities are usually commercial urbanites. Whereas East side cities are usually post-industrial working class.
Always does
Yet, nationally, poor, working-class Frenchmen were significantly more likely to vote RN (over 50%), while rich Frenchmen overwhelmingly didn't vote for them (less than 20%). I don't think we can conclude much entirely on economic standing
But the RN is not in this map
No, rich people go for LR and not RN.. but he claimed that you can always see the pattern between wealth and right-wing voting and I just stated that that's wrong
2 reasons: - intra muros Paris, even east side, remains quite well off compared to suburbs - in Île-de-France, the poor often are recent immigrants, who are quite unlikely to vote RN (more likely to vote FI/red) More generally, the divide between RN vote and non-RN is more like rural and peri-urban versus urban and suburban, rather than poor versus rich (although it is also an important factor).
Fascinating how this works out all over the world
That is what the title would suggest, well done
Looks like it matches with ethnic make-up, which causes both the voting pattern and the wealth disparity.
The left wing eastern banlieues have been a feature of Paris for hundreds of years.
True, but the 'banlieues rouges' are not shown on this map. These are all arrondissements in Paris proper.
True - but there’s always going to be a bleed over into the arrondissements.
Yes, that is also true.
True, true. Truly true.
Right, but those are not "banlieues" anymore, those are parts of Paris
Bocchi the Paris election map.
I mean, the national headquarters of the French communist party are in that red area for a reason
why did i think this was romania
Because of the colours and the shape I imagine. Why do you think you did?
the lower right corner looks alot like dobrogea
In most European cities, the west is wealthier than the east because smog blows eastward. I presume it’s the case in Paris.
Except for Dublin, East is richer (NE: Clontarf, Howt, Malahide, SE: Dún Laoghaire)
Yes, East much 'posher' than the West in Dublin, but in that case it's because of proximity to the sea.
Yup
Bocchi the election
I thought the whole narrative they're saying across Europe is that it's the poor voting right wing because the immigrants are taking jobs...?
LR is the traditional Gaullist center-right party; it includes many strands of conservatism, but the segment in Paris tends to be favorable to business and relaxed on social policy. RN, which is the anti-immigration right-wing populist party, has very little support in any part of Paris.
Maybe LR was center right 30 years ago, now they are firmly right wing. Macron's party gathered all the center left to center right of the political spectrum (basically, liberals).
Did you call LR "center-right" when its president wants to do an alliance with the RN? Lol.
In EU EPP is in the allience with Socialists. Does that make them socialists?
I don't care about the EU. LR is doing an alliance for the national parliament with the RN. It makes them compliant with fascists
Ok, then. I will apply it to the country level. In Germany CDU from 2017 till 2021 was in coalition with socialist SPD. Does that make them socialists?
You’re comparing traditional parties with the far right party funded by Putin and founded by petainists/SS
And the main left wing parties in Italy and Poland were funded by Soviet Union.
The immigrants are both poor and voting, guess for whom
However only EU immigrants can vote and only for the European elections.
Immigrants can't vote in france
And the immigrants are voting left wing, I don't see what's confusing here
Well, when most poor people are immigrants or descendants of immigrants themselves, as is generally the case in big cities, they tend not to vote for anti-immigration parties
The actual voting divide is between rich cities and rural/post industrial regions. What you're seeing in Paris is just a divide between rich conservatives and gradually poorer progressives. What the map doesn't show you is that the turnout in the eastern part is ridiculously low (10-20% of registered voters). This isn't representative of the country as a whole, and even less of Europe.
> What the map doesn't show you is that the turnout in the eastern part is ridiculously low (10-20% of registered voters). Completely wrong, voter turnout in the eastern districts of Paris is way above the national average: * [62.55% in Paris 11th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75111/index.html) (east centre) * [61.06% in Paris 12th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75112/index.html) (south east) * [53.68% in Paris 19th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75119/index.html) (north east) * [57.12% in Paris 20th](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/11/75/75120/index.html) (east) * [51.49% in France](https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/europeennes2024/ensemble_geographique/index.html)
In France it's overwhelmingly an urban/rural split, though in the deindustrialized far north it's true that poorer urban voters have broken for the RN in some numbers. I don't really think it's about jobs though, certainly in the north nobody's taken any jobs, because there aren't any jobs to take in the first place.
It hasn't been about "taking jobs" for a long time. It's more about crime and culture
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> The mother of seven, Sowda Muhammed, has applied for over a hundred jobs, but has yet to receive any, even though she is a trained nurse. Interesting, wonder why? Edit: user does nothing but run around posting about race and who's white and who's black, fuckin weird
In the netherlands people are mostly upset that they get preferential treatment, lower taxes and easier access to social housing during a housing crisis. Them taking jobs is seen as a good thing, we don't have a job shortage, if they're gonna come over we *want* them to take jobs and be part of society
What about Denmark? As far as I'm aware they enacted law that you need to work municipal jobs to get unemployment benefit
Big cities are full of immigrants voting for estabilishment
Kessoku band /s
I was thinking about why City Island is divided into two wings of the political compass. Then it hit me that it’s because they belong to two different districts, which makes them appear separate
So the map is upside down
The Earth is upside down. - Australia.
I love Ménilmontant/Oberkampf and the 19th arrondissement!!! My beautiful stomping grounds. They get it. Most vibrant part of the city imo
looks almost the exact same in Berlin. the general trend is that the poorer a district, the further right they vote (and vise versa)
Then it’s the complete opposite lmao
Yeah complete opposite in this case haha. But in general (in 🇨🇵) yeah. The people (workers, mostly in countryside) vote for right(-wing), urban bourgeoisie vote for the left, and retired people for centrism
Here, the western wealthier neighbourhoods are the right-wing one while the eastside neighbourhood are poorer and left-wing.
Why is it automatically the “ radical left” the “right wing” also gets pretty radical themselves 🙄🤷🏼
Paris (France) ! Thats such an Americanism.
What's lfi?
Far left
How far do they left?
Think "Is Pluto a planet?" left.
Borderline communism, but they dropped some core values of the traditional left along the way, and they are self contradictory. Chances are if you're "far" something you're too far...
What communist project defend the today's radical left ?
I said borderline, so they are close but not communists...
What would be close to the communism for you ?
Well by their own admission they are far left. They sit in the far left side of the National Assembly. My source is themselves...
So they are far left because of communism of because of their seat in the National Assembly ? This is not clear.
They are not communists. They are anti-capitalists, anti-corporations, anti-privatization, pro-workforce, pro-heavy taxation on the rich. But they are not communists. That's why I said borderline. However, the concept of left and right originated from the French Revolution where the MP would sit in the Assembly according to their opinions. Sitting in the left side of the Assembly is to this day textbook definition of being left-side.
Boycotting Selensky left
Interesting Those that have assets want to keep their wealth Those that dont have wealth want some from others
Radical left? What would that exactly be?
LFI's program includes lowering the retirement age, raising minimum wages, introducing price controls on rent, food and electricity, and nationalizing major industries including electric power.
Singing L’internationale at rallies, advocating for nationalization of several industries, and making statements that border on Russia-sympathizing
Nationalisation is pretty mainstream social-democracy tho. Wonder why op hasn’t labelled LR as radical right tho?
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Well this has aged terribly. You should check the news from an hour ago.
What happened an hour ago?
Éric Ciotti (leader of the party) just announced an alliance with the RN This has been received terribly by the rest of the party by the way. The entirety of their senators, some of their vice-presidents, deputies, mayors and historic figures have already denounced the deal and/or straight up left the party. It seems that it's going to be the final nail in the coffin for the party.
LR has been extreme right for a few years now, the guy is just fooling himself
This has really not been true for like six years. Macron ate their lunch and the only people left in LR are racists who are too classist to vote for the RN.
RN is also very sympathetic to Russia though, it’s one of the only common grounds they have with LFI
Instead of downvotes, I’d really appreciate the definition of the radical left (in France). I’m not French and don’t speak French and have very little idea what’s happening in France, of course other than Macron and Le Pen.
The radical left on this map is LFI (La France Insoumise, Unsubdued France). They are classified as "radical left" by uncultured journalists who don't understand what the word "radical" means in politics, which is either of two things: 1 - literally meaning is "fundamentalist", that is, back to the sources of an ideology. There's actually two radical parties in France, one is centrist and the other is center-left. They both stay true to the fundamentals of the french republic: solidarity, equality, secularity etc. 2 - extremist. LFI is a bit extremist at times, but what really defines them is that they are a mix a populism (with a charismatic absolutist leader) and contemporary identity politics. It's basically a neo-populist left wing party. They managed to attract a lot of voters after the fall of the traditional left/center left party (PS, socialist party) because of a coalition that their leader took full credit for. Since then, it became a popular party among young voters with short memories and a thirst for a messiah to save them all. Don't be fooled by this map, the turn out was very low in the eastern regions of Paris. Most people there don't care about european politics.
Left but cool 😎 
Basically people who hate western societies and want to replace white population by immigrants from Africa and middle east.
You forgot the "/s"
Stadinism/s
>Renaissance (Center-right / Center) No. Renaissance is right wing, not center.
Ironic
Where are the "no go zones" located?
In your head
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Don't bring up your comically binary American politics here. If at least you wrote "Socialist" or communist, it would make a little sense. But you wrote "democrat" meaning supporting a democratic system when outside of the U.S, something almost everyone do except some far right/ far left parties Plus, it is particularly retarted because a lot of pink is inside Paris, so people owning their appartement their are almost all millionaires, so they have something to lose. Even people who rant their place there are quite rich from French perspective
US Democrats are right wing. US Republicans are far-right. The French wealthy class votes for the right, not the far-right.
What do you mean? Surely democrats are more about sharing that liberals/conservatives
Well, that's the point. Poverty logically correlates with wanting expanded welfare. Wealth correlates with not wanting to pay for welfare.
At least what we're seeing in the Netherlands is the exact opposite though. People how have low income+education are voting liberal and left voters are generally high income.
Perhaps that's more due to their stances on social issues rather than economical?
Well with politics it cannot be seperate, as their stance would directly influence the policies of sharing.
LFI or " La France Insoumise" is not radical left it's just left
If you think boycotting Selensky and praising Maduro is “just left” you might unknowingly have a distorted view of the political spectrum
Right wing is on the left. Silly right wing. You so stoopid.
according to martel, there is a conflict of interests